Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Pressure at Celtic, Spanish success, Frank under fire & what's upset Maresca?

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Mark Chapman is joined by Phil Jones, Chris Sutton and Rory Smith to discuss a mixed weekend for managers across Scotland and the Premier League.Is Wilfried Nancy already under pressure at Celtic, just three games into the job? The latest defeat came at the hands of St Mirren in the League Cup final and their former captain Stephen McGinn joins the pod.The top three in the Premier League - Arsenal, Manchester City and Aston Villa. What should we take from the fact that those three clubs have Spanish managers all of whom have authority over many aspects of the club which has been built in their image?What's upset Enzo Maresca and does the Chelsea boss get the credit he deserves?Plus, not for the first time this season, Thomas Frank has come under fire after their defeat to Nottingham Forest. The Spurs boss says it's not an easy fix, but is he right?Timecodes: 03'20 St Mirren and Stephen McGinn 15'00 Is Wilfried Nancy already at risk at Celtic? 32'00 Spanish success in the Premier League 42'00 What's upset Enzo Maresca? 52'00 Is Spurs an easy fix for Thomas Frank?Commentaries coming up this week: Tue 2000 Cardiff v Chelsea Wed 1930 Man City v Brentford Wed 2015 Newcastle v Fulham - on Sports Extra

This is the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman on the Football Daily podcast. Welcome to the Monday Nightclub, Rory Smith, Chris Sutton and Phil Jones are here. I'm going to start with a lovely email, Chris. And this is genuinely a really nice email, so don't look so concerned. So this is from Robin, okay?

Dear Monday Nightclub, me and my girlfriend, Caitlin, have recently put a reservation down on a house that's less than a mile away from Ewood Park. As part of this development, each of the roads have been named after former Blackburn players, with the first being Sherwood Rise. Okay?

Our house falls on the second street, which we've had to wait a long time to find out what it's called. And guess what it's called? We are going to be moving in, and I'm not taking the Mick, and I have sent a screenshot to prove it, we are going to be moving into one Sutton turn.

If Chris is around when it's fully built in May or June, could he come round and open the place by cutting a ribbon? And even though I'm not a Rovers fan, he could come in for a brew as well. That's lovely, and I will do that. Is there a fee? Is my road the next one down? Yeah, I don't know how far down the list of former Blackburn players

they're going on. I'll quite make it to us. Just after Gamps, Pedersen Rise, wouldn't I think. Sutton turns in, I mean, I wonder why he turns. It's quite classy that. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, so there we go. You gave it,

you set a big head up a little bit there. I think Sutton Close, but it's got over the bar. There we go. Hey, I'd teed you up there, didn't we didn't even rehearse that? Slotten drive him as far away from this football club as possible. Is that the first road named in your honour? I don't know.

I suspect there'd be one or two other roads about which named in my honour, Rory. I would too, Chris. I'd be standard if there's not dozens. Yeah. Where else? Is there going to be one round Carrar Road? Would there be one Norwich way?

Well, they could well be, yeah. I would imagine I'm not sure in West London No no Or the Midlands really And I would imagine I would imagine maybe not in Glasgow

Because that would put off half a city If I wanted to move in Wouldn't it Yeah depending in which part Yeah Anyhow so there's no fee But could you Would you go round

Yeah Because that's number one So they've got the first house On that road That is I've got to say It's unusual Sutton turn I wasn't Renaud I could do a croif

turn if I set it up properly. Right. But yeah, no, I'd love to. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be, yeah, it's another. I mean, the thing about the Croif turn is it wasn't, the clues in the title, and it wasn't named after you. Yeah, yeah.

Fair enough, yeah. Right. But I do like, I do like, close. Well done. Yeah, I do like that one. Yeah, well done. Not intentional. Phil.

It fills off to a flyer then on the Monday night club. And we've never done this. In the whole history of doing the Monday night club, we've never started with St. Miron, Rory. No, and that's an oversight that we should address immediately, Chappas. How are you feeling, Chris? I'm feeling fine, yeah. I'm pleased for St. Mirren.

My brother played for them twice. So, yeah, he was happy. It was a hell of an achievement for them. I mean, genuinely, and they deserve to win the game. It's the first win for them in a major final against one of the Glasgow teams in 99 years, as they won the League Cup yesterday. the former St. Mirren captain Stephen McGinn joins us now.

Stephen, thank you very much for joining us. I don't want to talk about Celtic at all here until a little bit later on. Just about what this means for the football club of St. Mirren. Evening, Mark. Evening lads. It was a really special day. The odd thing was the scenes in Paisley weren't as good as they should be

with the final being in December. It was a really great night in Paisley. they were at the town hall but it was really wet and windy kind of called early but amazing achievement as Chris just said Stephen Robinson's done an unbelievable job at St Mirren

and the cup run was the one thing missing from his achievement so far you know he got St Mirren in the top six for the first time he took them back to Europe for the best part of 30 years and the cup run was the big thing missing and along the way they've played against hearts they've beaten hearts they've beat Commonwealth

at Rugby Park They beat Mother, a good Motherwell side in the semi-final. And I don't know what Chris thought, but I thought it was a 50-50 game from the start. I think something about a really solid side. And I thought if they could get on top early doors, which led to the scoring, they never looked back. Yeah, I think Stevens, right, in terms of going into the game, I think if there was ever a good time to play Celtic and whether Stephen Robinson sensed a vulnerability, this was the game. and then the early goal Celtic, you know,

haven't been very good at defending set pieces this season. That got them on the way, but do you know what? They could have gone further in front. Celtic then had a good spell before halftime. But you always sensed the second half that St. Mirand, actually, you know, they got another couple of goals. But it wasn't like they, you know,

it was a barrage from Celtic and St. Miran were hanging on. They actually saw the game out really comfortably. And it's a testament to Stephen Robinson because of, everything since he's, you know, gone in at St. Mirren, the budget which they have. But he, you know, he's built a team which are superbly organised, really well drilled. Each player understands their role within the team in opposite. I know we're going to talk about Celtic later, in opposite to what Celtic look like at this moment in time. And it's a, you know, it's a testament to him, really, in the job that he's done at the club.

but he's recruited well and built a formidable team. I'll go give you the numbers, Phil, because then it is just a testament to what good coaching is. And then I'll go back to Stephen, which is, and Chris mentioned some of the figures. Celtics' turnover is 143 million. St. Mirren's is 6 million. Celtics' wage bill is 75 million.

St. Mirren's is 4 million. Celtics' season ticket holder base is 53,000, and St. Mirren's 4,000. but if you get the right man with the right philosophy and the right characteristics, you can go somewhere. Yeah, it's incredible, absolutely incredible. I mean, some achievement. I think Rangers and Celtic have obviously dominated the Scottish League

for a number of years, but it's nice to see hearts were top of the league, doing really well, flying. St. Mirren now win the Cup. And I agree with Chris, it wasn't, you know, caught the second half. And it wasn't, by no means, was it a fluke or a one-off game? They fully deserve to win. And not just win, they pretty convincingly in the end. and did a piece on hearts

just before they had a dip, actually. It's important as a journalist. The time things just right so that you get it at the crest of the wave and then what happens afterwards is not a your concern. But I was speaking to a fan who said, we're talking about Derek McKinness.

And he said, oh, you know, at first he was a little bit suspicious of the appointment. As McKinness has been around, it wasn't like a glamorous foreign name. But then he sort of said he'd come to realize that in Scotland you do need a manager

who knows the kind of the wise and wherefores of the league. And I thought, to be honest, it was going to be a little, One of those things, everyone thinks that, you know, their club is special, their lead is special, everything's different. And most of the time, if you get a good manager, they're a good manager. But he said, you need someone who understands how to play

on the plastic pitch at Kilmarnet, and you need someone who knows how to understand, knows how to play Stephen Robinson, St. Mirren. What is it about his St. Mirren team that makes them so difficult to play against and so successful? Yeah, probably, I mean, I was lucky enough to work at the academy last year, and I got to see Stephen Robinson probably firsthand, and he's as good at out of possession coaches I've ever watched

so organised so they move the way his team move and press it's almost like robots they almost and that probably makes it sound like it's a disservice but it's so well coached that it looks as if they're all holding a rope together and even yesterday you're looking they looked at times like Setwick playing against a man for man press but it's not it's because they cover the ground so well and

I think a big part of the job that Stephen Robinson's done has to be given credit to the patience of the St. Mirren board as well because all this chat and the pressure that managers come under in Stephen Robinson's first kind of calendar year at St Mirren he came in

he didn't have a great start they were in a top six position they dropped out it and really finished the season poorly at the start of the following season with the League Cup group sections in Scotland at one point it was fighting

with a fan after the game against Airdrie where they lost and at that point there was a lot a noise around his job and the St. Mirren board stuck with him obviously as you spoke about the job he did with Motherwell, his experience of the league, his organisation, his

kind of confidence, his calmness in stormy times and what he's built is he kind of rhyme off his achievements but the start to play yesterday, the team comes out and he's got seven full international starting the cup final for St. Mirren. So he speak about the budgets and that guy's built

a squad and he's managed within his budget to to take on Celtic with seven full internationals and a point where 50,000 people are there for all the numbers or the size of Celtic, you're at the Cup final thinking this could go anyway. Where are they then, for you, Stephen, within the sort of Scottish pecking order? I mean, they're in the bottom half of the table at the moment,

but they've won the trophy. We've had discussions on this show several times over the last couple of years about what hearts in particular, and also Hibs were trying to do. You know, a year ago we had the Aberdeen manager on when things were a lot rosier for them. The Dundee clubs are both in the premiership but, you know, aren't pulling trees up, probably.

It will be fair to say. So where are St. Mirren within the pecking order? I think, I mean, it's such a tight league. There's not much between the games. They've obviously tailed off after the semi-final one. They hadn't won a game until last week. after they won the semi-final and that affected the league position.

What has happened, it sounds silly coming off the back of scoring three in the final with one of the strikers, scoring two, scoring four in the semi-final. But since they lost Toyisi Olisanya to America, they didn't really replace a like-for-like in his position. Strikers obviously scoring goals hard to find. But that's probably the one thing that they've had missing.

I mean, they're really hard team to play against. And on their day, they're as good as anyone. and I think that'll be Stephen Robinson's message once he sober's up, once the player's sober up. You've got to enjoy your wins, haven't you, Stephen?

Absolutely, yeah. I think they're still out in Paisley tonight, so absolutely well deserved. But they've got Livingston at home on Saturday, bottom the league, and I think that'll be, as I said, he's never got too low when things were tough.

Even last year he was the calmest man in the building during a bad run. and he'll not be too high and he'll know the importance of a Saturday back to reality but they want to be back in the top six they want to get back to Europe it was such a massive achievement

getting back to Europe and you know off the back of that cup victory yesterday if you can do that to Celtic you can do that to anyone in the league is the worry then Stephen and I don't particularly want to end on a negative for some million fans but this is a horribly negative way of doing this

is the worry that other people will sniff around him now because he did do well at Motherwell, didn't he? And then he went to Morecam and that didn't... And Morkham at the time we're in League 1, not where they are now. And that didn't work out and then he went back to Scottish football. So what's his career path going to be, do you think? Well, it's funny you should say that because it's weird...

The fan base are actually... I mean, they're actually quite a surprise they've still been able to keep him. Every time a job comes up, they're thinking, surely our manager's going to get this one. And then he doesn't get it. It's almost like they can't believe their luck. And I think sometimes the old them and more come kind of jobs count against him and help to keep him because it's as if he didn't go so well from south of the border.

But, I mean, the Sumeran fans, he's a bit of a legend at Luton. That job came up recently, and the Samarang fans that had him down is right, we're going to lose him this time. And I don't think he was quoted. So it's weird that the fan base are like, I can't believe nobody wants him. As soon as that's quite an negative question, can ask him more positive one, is that all right? Of course, yeah.

Does Paisley's obviously not far from Glasgow? I don't know what the mileage is. Chris might be able to tell me. How important is it for a club license? It's the first stop out of Glasgow Central. The first stop. It's not far. You're right.

Not far. I mean, that could be thousands of miles. It might just be a really long train. Unlikely. How important is winning something like a daylight yesterday, winning a trophy for giving St. Mirren, like an identity to get kids to support them rather than Celticor Rangers?

Yeah, massive. You know, I think 2013, the last time they won in the League Cup, was a bit of a kind of game change in terms of that younger generation. These, you saw it again yesterday, Samarren don't have 12, 13, 14,000 fans,

but what you've seen yesterday was the fan with his wife and his kids or his uncle or his friend. And you see, and the scenes when that third goal went in and probably from the third goal going into full time, when you know it's the Cups won,

the scenes will stay with some of the kids forever. But one of the big things Sumeran did as a club is moving to the new stadium, building that kind of modern stadium with the really nice facilities. Their average attendance has gone up by 2000. You know, where it was sat for years around about the four and a half.

It's now sitting at about the six and a half. So Cup wins, new stadium. Yeah, things are looking really positive for the football club. Stephen, thank you very much for coming on. How's it going on Falkirk staff, by the way, finally. We've had John McGlynn on. So is that going all right?

Yeah, it's all right. Yeah, off the back of we obviously had a tough couple of weeks against Hibs and Harts. But we have a few good fixtures coming along. We can't ask for much more for how it's gone, being a newly promoted team, setting up in the league. So a couple of big games to look forward to,

but we're really pleased with how it's gone so far. Thank you very much. Who do you hope finishes higher in the league this season? He does. It's such a good. Yeah, exactly. Stephen, Stephen was with us on the Monday night club. Given the trajectory that all the Glasgow clubs are on,

would you probably support St. Mirren over the other two at the moment, Chris? That's a very good point. I've been known to, yeah, to change my support for certain teams, yeah. But no, not quite yet, but give it to Wednesday night. Celtic had got done to United and then maybe so. Go on, then answer Phil's question. What was it? What's gone wrong?

I think Martin O'Neill did such a wonderful job and I think he's gone in there as a manager not really a coach and he's been able to manage big players big egos which the previous managers haven't been able to do and he's done it really well and it just goes to show that if you get like you just said about St. Mirren, you get the right person for the job but I just I mean

the talk about the new man now in charge almost two weeks, three weeks in charge and he's in the firing line already three games I mean, you could do a three-hour show on this. I mean, you could do. I mean, Wilfred Nancy has gone in, and his first three games were always going to be difficult.

And Martin O'Neill, in many ways, half killed him with winning seven out of eight, if you watched all those games, and, you know, in many ways it's such a remarkable job that Martin did, but, you know, in a lot of those games, they sort of scraped by, and in the interviews after games, Martin was talking, well, you know, it's all about winning

and he was right, but, you know, Martin is on record of talking about the importance of January. Just listening to Martin on another radio show this morning is quite interesting. You can say Talksport, it's fine, Chris. I mean, you know, it's fine. It's another. I was technically right.

It was another radio show. It did surprise me, you know, when Martin was asked about, you know, the conversation he had with Wilfred, Nancy, was only for 15 minutes, they spoke. And I can't believe in many ways that Wilfrid Nancy didn't pick his brains even more. But he's, you know, he's coming from Columbus crew and he wants to implement his way of playing. And he's done that immediately.

I don't think that that's a particularly easy thing to do. And it certainly hasn't been. And, you know, with hearts who are, you know, really well organized. That was quite a close game losing that narrowly. Then they go and get walloped by Roma, who just went. Man for man. And I don't care whether Brendan Rogers would have been in charge of that Celtic team or Martin and Neil. You know, Roma were in a different level to Celtic. And it felt that the final against St. Mirren was really big. But for a St. Mirren team to dominate Celtic in the way that they did, that's a problem for Wilfrid, Nancy.

And I just, and I haven't been able to gauge this today. But there is a large part of the Celtic. fan base, and I can't sort of put a number on a figure on it, but a lot of really sensible-minded Celtic fans that I know are saying, enough is enough. Celtic need to make the change now, as you spoke earlier. What? And I can't, well, I'm just, I'm only telling you what I know, okay, and what a lot of sensible people are saying, they are saying, it's not going to work, and Celtic need to make a change. I find that absolutely remarkable. I don't think that is fair. I think that the guy needs a window.

I think he needs time. But if he has made a mistake, and I think he has made a mistake, because, you know, Martin had a particular way of playing. And he, you know, he sort of based on, based on the quality of player, which he had and what have you, he found a way of playing to get over the line in games. It wasn't always comfortable.

But Wilfred Nancy is coming. And he's tried to play the Ruben Amarin. way. And I think that, I don't know what Phil thinks. He hasn't had time. He hasn't, he hasn't had a six week preseason to do that. Celtic players are used to playing a certain way. So he hasn't had a preseason to do that. So then to come in and try and implement this new style when he's not getting any time to work on the, on the training ground, with a group of players who were, you know, this season have struggled and a low, pretty low on confidence. Anyway, and Martin Neal improved the confidence levels.

But I think that that was a big ask. And he's coaching in games when Celtic are playing. Of course, he needs to coaching games. But the players aren't quite getting it and they're not connecting. They're leaking goals left, right and center. A big problem all season, not just with Wilfridantz. At times I watch Celtic, I think, I don't know how you're going to score a goal this season. I don't quite understand how they're going to score a goal when they get into the final third.

They're missing key players, Carter Vickers, Alistair Johnson, Jotter. is out and all these things you put in the mix let Phil go on the coming in and changing the formation straight no I don't not the formation I just feel like you've gone from Martin O'Neill who's steady this year more secure

more solid more organised structured way of playing manages the players really well manages up manages down brilliant maybe he's not the best coach but he gets the best out of the players and you you sell to it and you're appointing somebody who's got a complete contrast complete different

style or philosophy, whatever you want to call it. And especially like Chris said, before a cup final, you're trying to implement. And believe me and you, when he walks into that dress room and he's on the grass on the first day, players are sussing him out. Players are seeing, can I trust this manager? Can I believe this manager? Do I want to follow this? And he's probably trying too hard to all of his skill sets that he's been brought in

by Celtic to do. He's probably trying so hard to get all of these in at such a short space of time for big, big games, and it's not worked. Chris saying that the views of sensible people he knows that 10 days is too much and that they should sack him immediately suggest that those people maybe aren't that sensible. There is a bit of a point there that it's going to take him a long time to win people around after a start this bad.

That is a genuine, it shouldn't be the case. But that is a genuine concern that what does he now need to do to win over the Celtic fans to get over this bad first impression? Win games of football? Well, yeah, he needs to win on Wednesday. You only have to look what happened to Russell Martin. Yeah. You only have to look, you know, and that was a short space of time.

You're thinking, you know, that, and, you know, there are people who think, well, he should have been given longer. Three games, look, we all know, isn't anywhere near enough. What I would say, though, and it is a bit like Ruben Amram. You know, can you blame Wilfred Nancy? And I understand and agree, you know, with everything Phil says, if it was if it was me I wouldn't I wouldn't have changed

I'd have kept it and then slowly it would have maybe tried to work in the train and drip feeded into players and then maybe make a change but the modern manager isn't like that are they Chris? No no absolutely imposter coglue wasn't and so I just wonder

it must have been part of the talks with him getting the job he must there must have been a conversation which you know he said I'm going to come in and do it my way so then you know you have to say then you can question whether it was a sensible appointment from that respect about all that change happening at once if this was the way he was all going to play and and in many ways you know it was a gamble a massive gamble from him and you know it hasn't it hasn't paid off and that's an issue and the players do look sapped of confidence and it's a great place to play when things are going well Celtic but you know now you you know you look at you you you look at you you you're You look at players, head down, don't want the ball. It's a massive, massive problem for him.

He needs to win anyhow on Wednesday night against Under United. He's desperate because it's all right. Somebody shouldn't be sacked after three games, four games, five games. But what always goes against Celtic and Rangers managers is when the fans turn in their numbers, when the whole stadium is against the appointment, it's the end. But isn't the other thing that will go against new appointments for Celtic and Rangers managers is that – and I've got their next five fixtures in front of me. So Dundee United away, Aberdeen at home, Livingston away, who are bottom, Motherwell away, and then Rangers at home.

And isn't the point because this kind of – you go back to Russell Martin, Chris, is beat Livingston or beat Dundee United, it's expected. So that doesn't actually give him any credit in the bank, does it really? Because it didn't with Russell Martin. So actually, and lose any of those, but then it does matter. And then you go even more into negative equity. So the first time he can probably do anything, would you agree, to win the fans over, is at home on January the 3rd to Rangers? Is that his first opportunity to win them over?

Yeah, but he can't... But it could be his last if he's not... He can't afford to keep... You know, Wednesday night is enormous. People have already made the mind up... If he goes and wins to two-no one... Yeah, it is no win. And also now, because he's set this stall out

and saying, well, this is the way we're going to play, imagine if he... I mean, it's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, because if he tweaks things and goes back to the way, which I don't think he will, the way that Martin O'Neill played. I think he'll get criticism then for doubting himself. He can't win.

I said last week, he's been criticised in certain quarters for wearing green trainers in his first game, for bringing out a tactics more, things which are totally unfair to criticise him for. But, you know, his problem is he is doubted by a large part of the fan base already. And I know in many respects, you lot down South don't really sort of understand.

And it isn't understandable, really, for a manager in 10 days. Where do you live? Where do you live? Yeah, I lived downsized. But I did play. But Glasgow is such a, you know, it's the most intense football city. I don't, you know, I don't think you underestimated how big Celtic was? Do you think you underestimated?

I think that's, that's something that Celtic and Rangers fans tell themselves. But I don't think it's true. They tell themselves what? that everyone who comes in and doesn't do well underestimates the stale as a question. Wolfgang Nancy will know exactly how big Celtic is. He's not an idiot. Do you know what I mean?

Everyone knows how big Celtic and Rangers are and how intense the rivalry is. Some of us would say it's maybe not any difference. Quite a lot of intense rivalries around football. But the difference is, I guess, as you say, that he can win four games and no one will care. If he wins those four before the old firm game and then loses that, then all the criticisms come back.

I don't know. I think what you said earlier is right, Chris, that if the stadium gets doubts, and I would suspect that after three games that have gone as they have, the stadium will have doubts. I'm not sure they can be won over that easily. I'm not sure that putting a run together of,

you know, even if you win that old firm game, you look at it and they might say, well, you know, this is not Brian Loudrop's Rangers. It's a reduced Rangers anyway. So he then, what, he's just kind of continually trying to keep hold of his job. It's a place where you need a good start as a manager and he's not had one. I mean, where the club are at, I mean, if he loses against Under United, I think he's in big trouble.

I just do. And in many respects, I do think this, I do think it's fair for him to have a window and bring new players in. I mean, that's a very obvious thing to say. But, you know, if he then goes as and loses to Aberdeen, it'll just be, it'll be so raucous. I mean, it'll be unimaginable from him. It's probably wondering, you know, what is letting himself in for anyway. But I do think that the board at Celtic, you know, they appointed him. If they truly believe that he is the man for the long term,

that they should stick to the guns with it, if they think that he's going to really improve the club, you know, further down the line, they've got to be brave with this decision and stick with him, but it's not going to be easy. And also all the stuff bubbling, not behind the scenes, but that's not helping the fact that, you know, there's a big split between a certain part of the fan base and the board. They are at polar opposites,

and that's all bubbling under as well. So it's a very difficult time for Wilfred Nancy to come in. Chris, do the board deserve a bit criticism as well? I take Phil's point absolutely that that Wilfred Nancy maybe should have looked at that and thought, do you know what, maybe let Martin O'Neill have the lead leaders, Roma and the club final? But should the board not have thought about that? I think the Martin O'Neill thing is,

I mean, I don't mean this to sound bad, but I think winning out of seven out of eight games is a good thing. But so many of those games Celtic weren't convincing. And I think that, you know, this all stems from the summer. It stems from back in January in that Celtic didn't recruit. as they should have done, in my opinion. Brendan Rogers ended up resigning.

There was a, you know, clearly a fallout. He wasn't happy about the lack of quality, which, you know, he wasn't happy about the recruitment which was made over the summer. Hence, he was unhappy, ends up resigning. You know, the team get knocked out of the Champions League. There's a struggle for them to qualify in the Europa League. Martin O'Neill comes in in a short space of time.

turn things around. Everybody's a little bit on the up, but I think in many ways Martin Neal doing so well, that was papering over the cracks and, you know, a lot of Celtic fans haven't been fooled by that and it's down to the playing personnel which is why Celtic are in this pickle.

Just one final thing. Is the psychology of a squad different when they play under an interim manager than when the new one comes in? Because you've, I mean, you've actually played under quite a lot. Look back through who you played under as an interim manager and there were a fair few. Yeah, I look back at when Ralph Ragnick came in

and it was just a weird feeling around the place. Just didn't feel like he was in charge, but he was. And he came with this massive stigma around, you know, the Gengen pressing and the way he wanted to press. And yeah, I just don't think we've seen that. We didn't see who he really was. I don't think there was a real trust element. at all. I don't think the players really

believed in which way he wanted to go, which direction he wanted to go. I wouldn't say the training was necessarily engaging. It was a nice man, but I just didn't think it worked at that time. It's always a difficult job coming into Old Trafford and taking the reins of that one. But I don't think interim managers really work at big

clubs. But then if they do, but then if they succeed as Solshar did, then all of a sudden the pressure goes the other way. Yeah, you look at Solishtra. I think he had what he had was Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna, who were outstanding coaches. And they took a lot of the sessions.

They were brilliant. The lads loved being a part of it. Love coming to train. There was a buzz about the place. And they enjoyed playing under Ollie. Ollie was a great, you know, sort of man-manager, knew the players, knew the club, knew the, you know, everything around the club.

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I'll use my charm, gift it gab. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday nightclub on the Football Daily podcast. Let's talk about the top three in the Premier League. Then Arsul, Manchester City, Asimilla.

All three have Spanish managers. Also, Phil, the other thing here. And again, I go back to what you're learning on your coaching page. at the moment. The three managers all have, and I know there are directors in football and so on and so forth but they are 100% in control

of everything with their clubs. Those three clubs are built from top to bottom in the images of their three managers. And they've been given great chances when they were younger. Incredible. You know, the way that they've gone about management,

the way that the styles that they play, the different contrast and styles they play and they've all come through that sort of Spanish system you know they've all been given a chance I mean I look at you know the like the young English managers now you look at Lee Grant at Huddersfield

you look at Jack Wilshire at Luton Tom Cleverley at Plymouth you know I'm actually doing it's actually my study dissertation at the minute is we have to go away and produce something that we would like to know more in depth about and

and potentially put towards the people who we've got to present to and mine is first-time coaches and the success rate and failures are first-time coaches and why, you know, elsewhere are the more successful than what we are? You know, look at the Germany, look Fabin-Herzler coming over to manage now Brighton. What is it that where do we struggle? Where's the breakdown and, you know, I'm going to try and obviously dissect that and all different stats.

Will you look at, I mean, going slightly up to appear, but I'm interested in it. I was talking to Lee Johnson not that long ago. And he said to me, one of the things that he really would look at is not the opportunities for English or British coaches here, but why British coaches don't get the opportunities abroad in the same way. And actually,

what would help British managers and British coaching is more going overseas and coaching in second division in Germany. in the second division. Do you know, and you know, look at, so look at the job

that Liam Rossini, you've got Strassbaud. Ex-Forest manager, his name's on the tip of my tongue, has gone out to Denmark managing. Steve Cooper at Bromby,

doing a brilliant job. I think that English managers going abroad, for some reason, get a better recognition by coming back and experience a different culture, different way of playing.

You were almost seen in a better a better light. But yeah, there is, there is, obviously, they've been terrific. And they're obviously got a good system in the Spanish system, which is why they keep producing top cloak coaches.

And they have been able, and Villa is very much a case in point this season, but Artetta in the past, less so with Guadiola, really. They've ridden out any sticky spells without much call, would you say, Rory? For anything to change? I don't know, if you compare it,

and this may be incredibly unfair, but to compare it with, say, Potter at Chelsea. Yeah, I think there was such faith in Emery because of what he'd done in his first two-ish season that even though they did have a poor start villa, and it was slightly mystifying why they had a poor start, but they did. And I don't think at any point,

even when, you know, Monchi was going, the director of football, I don't think anyone thought, well, maybe Uni Emery's the problem, because you've got this body of work that made it very clear that Una Emery was not the problem and I think in that situation

having a club that is kind of built in the image of the manager is a massive advantage because Emery had the power he had the kind of faith of the hierarchy above him so he wasn't having to make decisions because he was under pressure

he could stick with what he wanted to do he could wait for the little bit of bad look to line itself out he could wait for the team to settle down and the results would come I'm not sure he necessarily thought they'd win 10 out of 11 at any point you know, they are the Premier Leeds form team now, Villa.

But there was no question that no one was going to turn on Unaimri because of what he'd done to, you know, to take Villa from where he found them when he took over from Stephen Gerard. You know, you say that. You say that. Just looking at their start, so, you know, their first win was in the Europa League. That was a seventh game. So, you know, with the nature of football, now you're saying nobody was ever going to turn,

had he not won in his first. 10, then do things, you know, things change, don't they? They do. And yeah, there's a, there's a point, I'm sure, at which people would have said, actually, hang on, this, this isn't, this doesn't look like he's got a solution or, or he's, he's not been able to fix it. And I'm sure that would have come if he'd done, yeah, 10, 12, whatever it might be. But I think maybe that's what it is.

Maybe you judge managers and how secure they are by how much rope they get before they're in crisis. And Wilfred Nancy, 10 days. Ruben Amarim has at times felt like he is all permanently one game away from United being back in crisis. Arna Slots won five games in a row, Donham Beaton for five games in a row at Liverpool. And that's kind of staved it off. But if they lose its purpose at the weekend, then it will change. But Emery had all of that.

The interesting thing there, sorry, the interesting thing there, Rory, is that you could probably argue that despite winning the title, there is a perception that Liverpool, aren't built in Slot's image or Slot isn't the figurehead of Liverpool whereas Una Emery is Villa and Arteta is Arsenal and obviously Guadiolla is City do you not do you not

I think that's absolutely right yeah those it's interesting that those three but they've also been in the job a lot longer than what Arnie Slott is so they've got a lot more credit in the bank Yeah, yeah. And I think in Emory's case, he's also, when Emory went to Villa, he was the biggest figure

in a kind of global footballing sense at Aston Villa. He was the ex-Arstle manager, Una Emery. He had managed PSG. He had managing the Champions League. He had won titles. And Villa were, you know,

a couple years off being a team in the championship, they felt like they were still kind of cementing their place in the Premier League, I guess, a little bit. Obviously, it's Aston Villa, it's a huge club, but when Emory went there, it felt like he was maybe higher up the food chain than Villa and there was a degree. I absolutely agree.

I think he's coming there and you sign a player these days and a big player and it's, we'll build the team around you. Well, they signed him and I Emery and went, we will build a team for you. You have reins of this football club for years and they've given him that backing. They've given him that

stability and platform to go on and be successful. Chris? Yeah, I'd agree with what um with with what phil said you know he's you know uh i mean stephen gerard struggled uh didn't he at uh at villa and then eunni emry uh goes in and and you think that they they have that that real figure that's not being disrespectful to stephen gerard you know hadn't hadn't managed for uh long and that you know it was a tough situation for him but you know emry uh going in there

he was a sort of star signing and then um you know that the it's an element of trust then, isn't it? And, you know, that ability to really attract players and build and sign players and you know, he's principled in the way that that they play. So, but you know, I do, you know, I don't necessarily agree with

agree with what sort of Rory said about, you know, he's never ever going to be sacked or in that situation. I think if managers go on bad runs, then, you know, they're not going to stave that off at all. That's just the nature of the game. And I don't, I'm still trying to work out about the Arnold Slot thing you said.

I think he has more power than sort of what you and Rory are getting at with Liverpool. No, I wasn't necessarily getting at it. It's making me think, I don't know whether that's, whether, you know, we're saying that the three at the top are different to sort of Arna Sloss at Liverpool. I don't know. I don't know what's right or wrong with that. Well, I think, do you not think that maybe, and Phil's right, because they've had slightly more time in the job,

they have moulded everything more in their image at the moment. I think there is a weirdness around slots at Liverpool because although he won the Premier League at the first attempt, a lot of the way he's covered is you won that with Eurgen Klop's team. There is still a question of matter of whether that was his team. I'm not saying it's true or right, but the general perception is you built on the groundwork that somebody else did and that this season is the first season

of the kind of Liverpool. Liverpool in purely in Arna Slott's image and therefore when they hit a bad run of results, then there is a little bit more pressure than there might be given that he won the title last season. Emery would have come under pressure Chris, but because of everything he's done it takes him longer to come under pressure.

One thing I want to say about Arna Slot though I actually think that if you look at the situation with Mo Salah and the way that he's handled that situation and then you know, talking on the Monday nightclub last week with the

guy from the Anfield rap. I've forgotten his first name, which is really bad. John. But I thought it was really interesting of being at Anfield at the weekend for the game. You know, the Liverpool fans are right behind slot with this. And that was a situation which, you know, at the time, not living in Liverpool, not being in Liverpool, I thought there would be a real split. And the Arna Slot may not come out of that situation particularly well.

but the fact that he has done and he still has that sort of clout and respect, you know, I think that's a big deal for him. So how managers are viewed brings us on to Enzo Moreska, who had this to say after Chelsea won at the weekend. The effort, the open mind, the way they want to learn has been fantastic.

And this is the reason why I praise the player because with so many problems, they are doing very well after a complicated week. Since I joined the club, the last 48 hours has been the worst 48 hours since I joined the club because many people didn't support us, worst 48 hours since I joined the club because people didn't support me and the team in general, in general. He went on to try and clarify these today because there was a sort of insinuation on Saturday night that were being told, oh, well, maybe it's because it's not his first language.

So he said this today. I don't have anything to add. I think I was quite clear, no more than that. My focus is just on tomorrow's game. I can speak Italian, my language, Spanish very well, French very well, and English more or less. I think when I want to say something, I'm quite clear. I already spoke after the game

I don't need to add more it's done it's finished that that isn't making any apologies whatsoever for what he said Chris is it in fact in some ways it's doubling down on it

yeah I've got to say I quite like Moreska in his style and he would have he would have you know he's a bright bloke I think he would have thought carefully about his word so unless he's talking about you lot in the media

Rory then it's clearly you know, aimed at, you know, people higher up at Chelsea and, you know, that it doesn't bode well. I always, you know, so many Premier League teams this season and Chelsea being one of them, I just don't, I don't quite understand what the expectations are from, you know, from the owners and from support really. And, you know, whether we, you know, how we want a view

Chelsea last season and, you know, winning the World Club Cup and the, you know, Europa Conference, they, you know, they did do this season a couple of weeks ago, we're talking about them being in a title race after they went down to 10 men against Arsenal. And then they've just been on a, on a, on a tricky run where, you know, you expect Chelsea to, you know, to go to Leeds and put up a performance. But in fairness to Leeds, you know, they've been pretty phenomenal, especially good at home. and flat performance against Bournemouth and then they chuck it away in Italy in the Champions League. And yeah, I think it's an emotional reaction from Moreska, but clearly something is amiss for him to come out and go public with that

because why otherwise would he have done it? It's funny, as much as I love the idea that Enzo Morescu, as an observer reader. And I'm sure he is, he strikes me as being a man of taste and discernment. It's funny how, like, it's always kind of,

he might be having a go with the media, but why is he not having a know at people on TikTok? Why is he not cross at angry jinge for something that he said about him? Why is it the traditional mainstream legacy media that's apparently so irrelevant that always gets the blame for these things?

I think it must be in turn. Why are you so paranoid? Endomerestra kicking off at the HMRC, a football podcast. That's what it is. That's who's upset him. I think it must be he came out today

I think and said that he loves the fans he wants to make it clear that he's not having over the fans he made that clear in the quotes so he's narrowing it down yeah we're getting there

if we kind of do the it has to be for me it was when I were listening to the interview then that's the first time I heard it live I've seen the quotes

it was almost he couldn't wait to get that quote out that people didn't support or he'd sort of pre-recorded that in his head of how he was going to deliver that

and he couldn't wait to get it out. For me, there's got to be an underlying issue, for sure. Otherwise, you don't say it. It feels completely right, because you can always tell when they've decided they want to say something. And it comes in response to a question that's just not about that at all. It wasn't done in post-match interviews,

like the one-on-ones with the various media there. It wasn't after they'd lost, you know, they'd won. And he sat there in front of the rumours. of journalists to, and said that to a question that, as you say, Rory, had, it wasn't like, do you feel you get enough support? Yeah, the question, from what I know, was not, you know, the hierarchy had been really irritating. You went, Enzo, what do you think they say to them?

It was about something relatively innocuous. And the other thing that a couple of friends of mine were there, I wasn't. But by the accounts, the questions were being taken pretty quickly, which can occasionally be a sign that the press officer knows that something might be about to happen and wants to kind of get around. the room as fast as possible to try and stay. I was going to say the first team comms officer would have been briefing him on things

to get across, points to get across, and it looks like he's just gone, nah, I'm just going to say what I want to say. Thank you very much. You take his seat. What do you think his problem is then, Chris? What do I think his problem is, well, it must be expectation. I mean, that's, you know, that's the problem.

I don't think they're doing that badly. You know, I don't, you go back a few weeks. But for him to come out, there, you know, there must be an issue whether it's something to do with January and, you know, bringing players in or whatever. But he doesn't, he's not getting the, you know, to come out and say he's not getting the support. There's, you know, clearly, clearly some beef there with, you know, he's not getting what he wants. Okay, let me throw a, let me throw a possibility out there then. Do you think that he feels that the nature of the squad that he has

and where the club were when he took over, he is having to rebuild them in a way that Artetta had to at Arsenal and that will take time. And whilst doing that, he has also managed to win conference league and qualify for the Champions League and the Club World Cup. And yet maybe internally he thinks expectations on him are greater. Yeah, I think that it's exactly what it is.

People above have obviously got a high expectation of the football club and where they should be and that success they should have. He's looking at other clubs thinking, well, let's get our ducks in a row here. We're not competing for the title. We haven't got a squad. Yes, the improvement over Chelsea in the last couple of years has been good under Moreska, but it's not a team that's capable of competing for the title yet and there are moments in games

where you look at certain individuals and think we need better quality in certain areas of the pitch. He's probably had discussions over certain possible signings in January. He's probably got frustrated that they've had a disagreement or something that they've not aligned with and that's been publicised in the media. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. It has to be relatively,

significant for him to go public with it though I would have thought I think it's probably not and I don't know and I'm slightly reluctant to speculate but I suspect if most clubs Do you think he gets the credit he deserves? No

but then does anybody anymore? Probably not. Football doesn't really do credit these days does it? Everyone's just permanently on the brink of the sack. No, maybe not. I think he's done a really good job. He's won two tournaments.

I suppose he's not helped by the fact that to Enzo Maestra, I suspect the club world means an awful lot to the outside world maybe doesn't. Similar, maybe, with the conference league. But it sounds to me like that those comments, as Phil said, were directed internally. There's no way that

was about kind of, this is something I've read in the Daily Telegraph. That's not what he means at all. It will be, there must have been something that has happened, and I would say that it's a slightly consensory word, but like, there must have been a flashpoint that has really annoyed him for him to go

public with it. If it's just the general kind of they think they should be doing a bit better, I would imagine that's the kind of, that's the kind of base level backdrop of life at Chelsea. And there must have been a thing that has happened. This is something that's been almost brewing

for the last week. It's not something that's just happened the day before. This is an underlying issue that's sort of been kicking the can down the road and that was his moment to, you know, is out his frustration. It doesn't seem the type to me

who cares whether he necessarily gets a credit he deserves. I mean, he made a big, he made a big point at the start of the season was Levi Colwell when he got injured. He talked about his importance to the team and he wanted another left-sided center

back. I suspect it's, you know, just purely based on he wants to strengthen in January. I think if you, you know, Chelsea haven't been a disaster this season and he just they do feel

like they're just beneath. They're not going to quite challenge this season. But they're certainly not out of a title race. You know, they're doing okay in the Champions League. So, you know, he wants something and maybe a player which maybe they've said is just not going to happen. I suspect that's where the frustration is because he, you know, all managers want to improve. And, you know, January is a big month. And if he feels there's a player who's going to make that difference for his team and he's not going to

get him then that's where the frustration is time for one of those Tottenham chats here's Thomas Rank after the defeat at Nottingham Forest I think I do everything to control my emotions which is a hurricane inside me because of course it's deeply frustrating that we are not doing better today after three good performances I think is extremely important to be calm and measured and of course have a very very very direct and clear messages at the right time, so they're not in doubt of what I think,

because, and very honest about where we are. That's why I was very honest today. It was a very bad performance. No two ways about that. But also know that to change this, this will take some time because you can't, no matter, no one who wants to hear about that,

it's just reality. I think the one who have followed the club of the team I think it's fair to say there's been a few not too consistent performances and that's the thing we are working very hard on. I think it's pretty evident that if no one gets the time no one can turn this around

this is not a quick fix. So that was Thomas Frank. What you would say, I suppose, if it was understandable it was a hurricane inside him after that performance and he probably did very well in public to not be fuming. Although if you were watching on the eye player

or on YouTube, he did look quite, cross, Chris. Yeah, I suspect that, you know, the hairdry may have come out in the, in the Tottenham dressing room. They've just been so inconsistent under him, but they're a lot of Premier League teams, and that's, you know, that's the way it's been this season. And, you know, he went in and everything which is in the mix with Tottenham, it was always going to be difficult for him.

But I do think it's a situation where he looks strained. He looks, he looks tense. Never saw Thomas Frank really like that. at Brentford. But I do feel there's an element of Tottenham fans who have already judged him. And I think that that's, you know, that's deeply unfair.

I agree with everything which he says. It's going to be long-term turning Tottenham round and there needs to be a lot of patience. We know, you know, fans don't have patience. But I think his strengths are that he is adaptable. But, I mean, when they, perform as they performed against Nottingham Forest, I mean, Forest absolutely

slaughtered them. And, you know, he had that run where they got well beaten in the North London Derby against Arsenal and them beaten by PSG. They got that last minute, the scissor kick from Romero, didn't they, to equalise at Newcastle and Tottenham fans will think,

well, we may have got away with one there. And then he'd sort of, I'm not saying he had to beat Brentford, but he did have to beat them, I think, for himself. And then they beat Slavia Prague, Prague, where Tottenham fans will think well they're rubbish anyway we should have been beating them um so you know there's always this this expect you're talking about expectation a lot tonight but this expectation level from the tottenham fan base they think they're a better club than they actually are and should

be further along than they actually are and don't really and i'm not trying to sort of fall out with topham fans but they don't realize possibly how long these things take there's a Tottenham fans written an article on the BBC Sport website, which are basically in your thoughts, Phil, where he sort of compares Frank to when Southgate took the England job. Many questions, this is what the article says, many questioned his experience and doubted his suitability at that level. While ultimately Southgate didn't win anything,

he did the unenviable but necessary work of changing the culture and laying the foundations for future success. He turned them into a team that justified the hype. you were in England squads under Gara Southgate, you went to Russia and the Wilkham in 2018. Can you see that similarity? Yes, because he strikes me as a guy who, especially when he was at Brentford,

you could see the players loved and adored playing for him. You could see the players believed in what he wanted to do and the way he wanted to play football. What I would say, again, he's gone to Tottenham who, Ange Poster Cogler, again, two completely different contrasting styles. A bit like the Celtic manager now, he's gone in there, but I do think that

he can get the belief and the trust in the players to I mean, we say turn things around. It's not absolutely struggling like, you know, the bottom end of the league but they're not performing. What I would say is getting beat to Forrest 3-0. If he was at Brentford, I don't

think there'd be as much hype and talks around in the game. He's probably realizing now that the expectancy at Tottenham is far greater. Well, he would have known that anyway, far great, and no disrespect to Brentford than what it was there. but I think he's a top manager I think he can certainly change things around

certainly get them higher up the table but again it's going to take time and you need to win games of football or else you don't get time. The longest a Tottenham's manager has lasted in the last decade was Mauritio Pochitina

who went five years from 2014 to 2019 everything else Rory, Marino 17 months Nuno, four months, 17 matches. Antonio Conte, 16 months. Andrew Poster Coglu, 101 games.

None of them lasted longer than two seasons. No, and I think there is a pattern there, and it's that reality and expectations at Spurs, I'm not going to be quite as harsh as Chris, but I think reality and expectations at Spurs are a little bit out of whack in terms of what they can reasonably achieve, given the competition.

So there's lots of things at Spurs that are right, and I'm not sure, do you know what, I'm not sure I agree with Thomas Francine of saying, you know, no one can fix this quickly. I think that's the sort of thing it's okay to say if you lose 2-1 narrowly at Nottingham Forest. And you're not great, but you put up a fight. But why is a quick fix then? So what is a quick fix? I think not getting 3-0 at Nottingham Forest.

It's feasible. That is possible. That's not an answer. That actually isn't an answer, is it? So to lose what 2-0, that's okay, is it? No, does what Spurs fans are objecting to? And you characterise Spurs fans as being fundamentally unreasonable, Chris.

But I don't think they are. I think while they're objecting to you. I don't think I use those. I think that was the infrace. Let me tell you what Spurr... Rory may... This may help Rory's point. Twice in their last 11 games

have Spurs registered an XG of one or above. They've had four games this season when they've registered an XG of 0.3 or below. That, I'm guessing, is a big factor. I think that Spurs fans don't necessarily mind having up and down results but I think they'd like to see more of a direction of travel and I think they like us probably really like Thomas Frank

they will have mostly thought he was a really sensible appointment when he arrived they will be drawn to the fact that he's naturally charismatic he's clearly very smart he's got a brilliant kind of CV for what he did at Brentford I think you can say this is going to take time if you are occasionally not quite what you might be I think if you're getting beaten 3-0 by a team that's fifth bottom

then you may be, that's not quite relevant to that situation would be my thing. I think Thomas Frant will be fine, but there is an issue at Spurs of, of yeah, maybe they want to run before they can walk to an extent, not because of any shortcomings of the club, but because of the competition they've got in the Premier League.

The only other thing that I think is, is maybe in Thomas France's favour, is that for all that inconsistency, like Chris says, that is the Premier League now. There's Arsenal, maybe City and Villainteau. Villa at the top and wolves at the bottom. And in the middle, basically everybody can beat everybody. There's very few teams who've got two wins in a row.

There's even fewer who've got three wins in a row. Villa, I think, to the four teams, because they've won 10 of 11, 5 on the spin. But this is an inconsistent lead. Everyone is inconsistent. And the fans will tolerate it as long as the lows aren't too low, if you see what I mean. Because they know the league is really funny balanced.

Why are they so impatient, though? because they are impatient. I mean, you have them down as a big six club, don't you? I don't know whether you still have them down as a big six club, but why are they so impatient? They are historically a big six club.

That is... I'm not going to have to... We've gone down this before. I think there's two things. I think one is that the team that they hate more than any other is top of the Premier League. That doesn't help. And the other is that they are...

Spurs are historically massive. You know, it's 1961. It's the double. It's Bill Nicholson. Spurs occupy quite a big part of our kind of cultural imagination in football, but their results don't really live up to that. Sheffield Wednesday, I think, have more lead titles than Tottenham. But Tottenham have a much greater kind of hinterland in the way we think of what a big club is.

And that sets expectations. The problem they've got is that if you're Tottenham, you want to win trophies, you want to sign big players, you want to be a kind of big elite European team. But there are probably four or five clubs in England who have just the same ambition and more money than you. And you're always going to be close but no cigar. I think that's the problem Tottenham have.

And over the last few years, as the best stadium in the country has gone up, as the best training ground in the country has gone up, as they were part of the super lead plot. They have all the accoutrements of being an elite team except for that kind of place in the top two or three of the lead table every year. And I think that is frustrating.

So is Thomas Frank then, Rory, do you think there's an element amongst the, from the Tottenham fan base who view him as not high profile enough for Totman? Maybe a little bit, yeah, I think

just as if you're a manager who comes in from Holland or Portugal or France or wherever, there will be a little bit of doubt over you, like, can they get used to our league? Are you, you know, do you have the metal to cope in the Premier League? I think it's the same if you make a

step up from a team like Brentford where expectations are a little bit lower and you're part of like a system that words, you're a cog in a machine, to a place like Tottenham where you are expected to win most games and you are expected to be, you know, to be kind of competing for trophies or, you know, in the quarterfinals of the Champions League, I think there is always a doubt over whether your promise that you show at that lower level is, is transferable to the higher level and that's natural. But I think the reaction about France appointment from Spurs fans was in the main pretty positive and I think they will all be inclined

to give him time but the performances haven't necessarily enabled them to do that. Just from a football in point of view, what does he fix in at Tottenham? I look at players like Rich Arleson and do you know what? I think he's done really well of late. He scored in goals and scored in the Champions League

but he's not an out and out of goal scorer. Chavvy Simmons has come in and really struggled of late he's done okay, he's done a little bit better but again he's not really hit the heights that everybody expected him to, okay, they've got Mickey van der Ven who if he keeps performing how he's been performing, he won't be at

Spurs next season. I just think they've got, you know, fullback position Pedro Paro. They're not, listen, they're good players but if Tottenham wants to you know, Tottenham want to really push higher up the table and start competing with these big teams and the

so-called six, then, you know, the recruitment's got to be bang on. Maybe they're not going to bring them in January. The recruitment's got to be bang on in the summer. Thank you, Phil. Thank you. Chris, thank you, Rory. This winter, cricket's oldest rivalry is reignited. England and Australia

do battle to compete for the ashes. Here live ball by ball commentary on Fife Sports Extra. and reaction of every day's play with the Test Match Special podcast. The Stub's out of the ground. Test match special at the Ashes. Listen on BBC Sounds.