Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Schmeichel ‘in disguise’ & a Rangers return?

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Mark Chapman is joined by Conor Coady, Chris Sutton and Rory Smith as Rangers sack Russell Martin and Ruben Amorim rings in changes at Manchester United.Hear from former Manchester United number one Peter Schmeichel as he offers his opinion on Senne Lammens’ debut in goal for United. How did he secure fan buy-in from the off? BBC Scotland Sports News Correspondent Chris McLaughlin tells us what went so wrong during Russell Martin's short stint in Glasgow. Might Steven Gerrard make a return to Ibrox? Would he or Sean Dyche be a good appointment for Rangers? And is there now an opportunity for the Old Firm sides to be usurped? Time codes: 0’50 Peter Schmeichel 1’18 Schmeichel criticises recent Manchester United goalkeepers 4’41 Conor Coady calls for Amorim praise 15’08 Rangers sack Russell Martin 26’36 Where do Rangers look next? 28’20 Might Steven Gerrard be interested?

This is the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman on the Football Daily podcast. Hello, welcome to the Monday Nightclub on the Football Daily podcast. Connor Cody, Chris Sutton and Rory Smith are with us. Let's start with Manchester United. After leaving Senna Lammons on the bench for the first three games since his deadline day moved from Royal Antwerp, Reuben Amarim, gave him his debut at the weekend against Sunderland.

It gave United their first clean sheet of the season, much to the delight of the United fans. And therefore, Peter Schmichael in the sky. Ah, you're Smykel, Harry Smykel in the sky. I mean,

and therefore, Peter Schmichael is with us this evening. Thank you very much for coming on. Oh, thank you very much for playing. Hi, guys. How are you doing? I mean, it's a lovely thing for him to hear, but, but, But the importance of that in amongst all the joking is

he's got the fans on side from the first game and that's so important for a goalkeeper wherever they are, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, you think about the goalkeeping that we've had over the last couple of years and how many goals we've conceded from errors from goalkeepers. Was it nine errors already this season? That's a lot, it's too much. I go back to when I played I was I mean my instruction was

and I think it was the same thing with Edwin and with David DeHiro we had to save the team 10 points a season not give them away and that's a kind of that's what we've gotten used in the last couple of years you know goalkeepers giving goals away and therefore we're losing points so it was nice to see first of all a clean sheet and then a really good and solid goalkeeping performance I mean, on the one hand, do you think it's somehow ridiculous that he comes for two crosses

and dominates and takes them and that's what gets everybody going but on the other hand that domination is what the United fans have craved I suppose, sometimes what the team have craved it's what you see you know, you see this young lad he didn't really have much to do

for a long, long time in that game he had the ball literally only by his feet and he did quite well with his feet but you expect that from any young goalkeeper these days that's how they're being brought up so you know there was some reminiscence of Edvin he you know he had a couple of long balls up with his right foot a couple of long balls up with his left foot

and you think whoa that that looks quite good and then of course he had that first save down to his left left post which you know expect him to say that but, you know, once he's done that, he's a goalkeeper now, he's saving balls. And from that, I think, his confidence grew, and then he came for the crosses that he could come for. And you could see, from the first cross he came from, you can see Matthias DeLeague. His reaction to it was fantastic. And that's what defenders, they want that when they're under the kosh.

They really want the goalkeepers to come out and get the ball and take some of that pressure off. it's not happened at Manchester United for a bit. So, of course, the defenders were delighted. And, you know, I mean, it's far too early to talk about how good this guy is. He's only young. He's hardly ever played any competitive football. And most certainly not at the level of Manchester United. And unfortunately, we've had seen, and we've seen over the years, you know,

a lot of great players coming into Manchester. United and the pressure is just relentless and they can't deal with that so it would be silly for someone like me to put a lot of pressure on him saying oh this is brilliant now we have a goalkeeper who's there for the next 20 years he did well he's got an international break now and you can think about his performance and then the next game he's got to go and do the same and then we see how he develops and the thing about goalkeepers is we all make mistakes we all make mistakes that cost goals and that's when we find out how good people are you know how do they react to making those mistakes so it was nice it was clean it was positive and we won the game

a lot of things that we haven't been used to for a while so so big smiles international break can we say and actually give the manager a bit of credit here and say it was actually good from the manager to put him into that game do you know what i mean peter so he's left them out the first couple of games. Was he, listen, I don't know this, I'm not spoke to it, but was he thinking in his head that the Sunnland at home game, and this is no disrespect to Sunnland, but Man United States are expected to beat Sunnland

at home, was it a good bit of management from him, put him into that game? Yeah, I think it is, it's good thinking by him. I don't think for one second that the other two goalkeepers, a goalkeepers that he'd signed up for.

So, as I started by saying, it's far too many, errors that they've made. It's too many goals they've conceded. And I think he was very disappointed that it wasn't Donoruma or Eddie Martinez that was arriving on that day. And it was this young lad that I'm quite sure that he probably didn't know too much about. The rumor is that he's signed purely on the data that he's had the best statistics over,

you know, the last season for in the best top 10 leagues or something. like that, which at the end of the day tells you nothing when it comes to Manchester United goalkeeping. So I think in his head, yes, this young lad hardly ever play. It doesn't really play for Belgium. He's

kind of number four, number five there. So not a lot of experience. I'm going to wait and put him in a game. And of course, a Sunderland game, a home game, a team in normal circumstances, and I smile when I say this, was supposed to beat

Sunday. And, of course, a Sunday. you know and then you have the international break so you put him in and you know there's going to be a period of time after this game where there are no games for man united and and then whatever happens in this game you know at the moment it's very very positive it could have gone the other way i mean there is this situation where he you can argue that he's touching the guy and it is ascending off it's it's i find it really really difficult to see is it bruno is it his the thing is there was a little bit of a mistake there and it could have gone wrong

and then that would have been the discussion for a couple of days but then the international takes over and so yes I think yes Con I really do think that was a good bit of management I'm glad you brought that up Peter because I thought we were going to gloss over that big talking point I think the point you make had it led to a goal then that would have turned

completely the other way and we'd say what have Manchester United brought there I know Rory, you're not a big fan of the Belgian League and the way that players shoot in there. I mean, so that accounts for nothing his career in Belgium. Rory doesn't say it counts for nothing. I simply made the point, Chris, which I wouldn't have thought would be especially controversial.

The standard of player in the Premier League is higher than it is in the Jupala Pro League. That feels like it's not a ridiculous thing to say. There's not that many players in the Jopla Pro League who would command six, you know, nine-figure transfer fees. I think the point that, that Connor and Peter make about kind of waiting

to give Lamund a game that was really important because maybe you would have said the Manchester Derby which is obviously when City gave Donna Ruma his debut and it did feel like a kind of a question mark over Lamans

because they stuck with by India you'd have said maybe Brentford but then Brentford is set piece aerial bombardment isn't it you don't necessarily want that whereas Sunderland at home maybe they look at that and think stylistically

that is always going to be at risk there's always a chance that a goalkeeper will make a mistake mistake, no matter how good they are, maybe they look at that and think that that is the kind of the least risky occasion. Because Amarim, I think, has spoken about the fact that if you don't start well as a goalkeeper, the confidence is much harder to, it's much easier to lose the confidence of your defenders than it is to gain it.

And so I wonder if he, would people, I wonder whether, I wonder, sorry for interrupting. Peter, would you have liked that, though, to be, to have moved to Manchester United, as long as did, and not play. that first game when you're the guy being brought in you're the number seemingly the number one

and you have to sit on the bench how would you have felt about that? I came into the game at a time we had two subs and none of them were goalkeepers we only had one goalkeeper in the squad you know it was a completely different time

if you got brought into the community now how would of course not of course not you know we don't want that Nobody wants that. But I think this was a very unexpected move because there are strong rumors that they had

very serious talks with Donoruma. And then, of course, it fell through for whatever reason. Was it because he rather wanted to go to Mont's City or was it because of financial? I don't know. And then on that Sunday day before the transfer window closed, it was reported by, you know, reliable sources that were negotiations for,

for Emmy Martinez to go to Old Shrapid. So he was never at this point, he was never the guy that was going to go in and play. I don't know if they've signed him, regardless of, you know, if Doneruma or Martinez had arrived, they could have thought he was one for the future, and we'll sign him,

and then maybe he goes somewhere on loan, or he sit on the bend or whatever. I don't know that, but the reality is that none of the other guys came. And so you're starting, with the goalkeepers that you have and we've I mean obviously we've covered that a lot nine hours already it's too

much so you had to make a change at some point you talked to you're sorry Peter you talked about you know what will be interesting will be how he reacts the first time he makes a mistake or makes an error which everybody does and and one of the things that we've discussed before here was

you know if Donna Rumour had made his debut as he did in the Manchester Derby for City if he'd made an error nobody would have gone well what an earth you've done because you've signed an Italy international who's won international trophies and has won the Champions League. The same with Martinese. If Martyrs had made an error on debut, he's a World Cup winner.

Did you react to making an error when you first joined United in the same way as you did, say, five years later when you had the back catalogue? Are you asking me if I ever made an error? I'll be honest with you, Peter. As I got to the question, I thought, oh, my word. Well, I know what I've done here, but I might as well just go with it anyhow. Yes, well done. Thanks, Chapas.

I never, I learned very early on to accept that that's just part of my job. And what separates me from other guys would be how I react. If I don't take that feeling of I've made a mistake into that next second, that next moment, if I can leave that till after the game, for instance, then I'll be fine. And it was something I worked on for, you know, ever since, you know, I can remember. And I did have quite a good start for Ban United. But in my fifth game, I did make a mistake. I came, I got a little bit too overreak.

I came for a cross that I shouldn't have come for. I didn't get anywhere near it, and Mark Chapman was behind me and hit it in. And then, you know, what do I do then? Do I crumble in front of an Old Trafford crowd, or do you just ignore that this has happened and then carry on and just do my game? And that was my, that was the test towards myself

and, of course, the test towards Old Trafford as well. And I think, you know, that was part of my strength. that I never, ever, in the 90 minutes that I played, I never believed I made a mistake. I, of course, knew, and I would work on whatever I did, when I get back home, I would think about, what can I do next time, what should I've done, analyze it a little bit, and if it was a mistake

that didn't lead to, you know, some mistakes you make, and it's a goal that you haven't got a clue why you made that mistake. And there's no explanation. You just make yourself look silly, But you'd make mistakes, which is like a decision, you come, you go somewhere and it doesn't end up like a goal, but it created a very difficult situation, a dangerous situation because you did that. I would then try and see if I could reenact that in training and then come up with the solutions

that I would kind of come up with in the aftermath of the game, but certainly never ever think about it in the game. Peter, thank you very much for coming on. Thank you. lovely to see you guys and you guys take care see you soon peter smiker with us on the monday night club i know you wanted to jump in and say it was lee chapman but i did i was just trying to think which chapman it was but we now have the clip that i basically scored ahead of past peter smike at old trafford but sadly chap as it was for leads yeah then then that falls down a little bit don't get me in trouble there but yeah but that that will now be clipped up and i will always have that

I'll play that to my kids. Will you really? Have I ever told you about the day I scored? Here is eyewitness testimony from Peter Marshall. Welcome to the brand new podcast series Rugby League Top Ten with me, Mark Chapman. It's where John Wilkin, Brian Noble and Jamie Peacock will discuss, debate and argue over lists

at the best players, games, finals, iconic moments and plenty of other categories that will no doubt leave you screaming at your device. The most entertaining parts of our sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool. Yeah, I mean, that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is. Yeah, no.

I think we've all managed to carry that bathroom. Rugby League top ten. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. Rangers next. said after they sacked Russell Martin, while all transition periods require some time,

results haven't met expectations. So he had 17 games 123 days. Yeah, and, you know, normally I think, you know, I would always think 17 games, not enough. Managers need time to build and get their identity across and their principles across. but the team weren't improving. And the fans, a lot of them didn't want him from day one.

I think that was really unfortunate for him. And then it's about getting results quickly and seeing more positive performances on the field. They recruited a lot of players. Barely any of the players they've recruited have come good. And they were a total mess. But the way it all transpired, I've got to say, at Falkirk yesterday, You know, I mean, that was pretty ugly at the end of the game with the, you know, some of the Rangers fans

sort of surrounding the Rangers bus so the players couldn't get on it. I don't know whether you saw it. And then Russell Martin having to be sort of escorted out of the ground. I mean, you know, and that was the feeling towards him for, you know, a long, long time now. And he's only been in the job, what, 1203 days it was, I think, something like that

but they just weren't having him and you know results weren't good enough expectation is so high up there and you know it's been a really disastrous spell for Russell and Rangers let's go right back to the start

with Chris McCockland BBC Scotland's Sports News correspondent Evening Chris why was he on the back foot from the moment he was appointed Hi guys it's a good quiz and I think probably the answer is that the Rangers fans from the start wanted a bigger name.

And I think, as I said at the time, because of that, the Rangers fans knew that he had to hit the ground running. For him to try and persuade those Rangers fans, and there was a sizable chunk of Rangers fans who didn't fancy Russell Martin from the start. for him to change their mind he had to be exceptional very quickly and it just didn't happen Rangers as Chris knows and as we all know the Rangers fans have huge

expectations for the past 14 years they've watched Celtic pretty much clean up in Scottish football and they're sick of it and they got this new consortium this American consortium led by Andrew Kavan Parag Marat and there was such a feel-good factor at Rangers

and I think the bubble was slightly bushed in that feel-good factor when Russell Martin was announced Rangers fans were expecting bigger all of a sudden the San Francisco 49ers were behind Rangers all of a sudden they could see Celtics dominance coming to an end

they could see Rangers getting back to where they thought they were they belong and Russell Martin's announcement was just a bit of a letdown for most of the Rangers fans they were going to get behind them I think most were happy to once he was announced to get behind him and give him a chance but he just never got started I mean the thing with that Rory as well

is when when that position was vacant by all accounts it came down to either Russell Martin or David Ancelotti, Carlo Ancelotti's son, who there would have surely been question marks about as well. I mean, it's not taking, it's not appointing Carlo Ancelotti himself, is it? No, but the surname probably doesn't hurt anybody's case, does it? And there is, I think, if you look at Davide Ancelotti's, and look, I have no idea whether Davide Ancelotti is a good coach.

I don't know whether he just puts the cones out for his dad. I've literally no idea what he does on a practical level. when he's working with Carlo. But there is, he does have a CV where he's worked at some of the world's biggest clubs, he's worked with some of the world's best players. I think as a fan base, you are entitled to look at that and think,

do you know what? He's unproven, but that's exciting, because he might be amazing. There is a legitimate reason to look at his, what he's done in his career and things. That's just the same as Russell Martin. That's, what a load of rubbish. Well, hang on, Chris,

is I think the surname. The surname, I mean, there are lots of surnames. Don't blame me. Don't blame me for Nepo babies. I mean, they'll be, I'm sure there'll be people. with a surname Marineo in Leeds who have never managed before. You know, Marino was given the Rangers job,

and it wasn't Jose, you know, with your argument, it doesn't make any sense. You can't just give somebody a job and expect there to be excitement because of the surname. No, no, no, but the point, the more serious point, Chris, is that if you, there is always a risk in taking an assistant manager and turning them into a manager, but I think with Davida and Chalotti,

the Rangers fans would have understood, as most fan bases would, there is a risk here, but the upside is enormous because it could be that you're kind of working with the next great generational coach. With Martin, I think because he was quite familiar because of what had happened with Southampton, there's a body of work to say, well, this is what you're getting,

and these are the flaws in it. And that, I suspect Chris, I know more about this than I do, but that I think is what, that's the kind of the preconception that Rangers fans would have had, that Russell Martin plays in this one way, and if it doesn't work, he just keeps on playing with it,

playing in that way, and you'd have to deal with it. And I think there are a lot of fans, not just at Rangers, around the country, who don't really want that, to be honest. So my guess is that's why he had a tough start in a way that maybe Davida Ancelotti wouldn't have done. I mean, it might have done even worse. The name didn't matter. The name didn't matter essentially.

Chris has said it. The results mattered early on for him. And that's what went against him. And then he didn't necessarily help himself. Chris did he first league game against Motherwell when he came out and sort of, you know, firing shots everywhere at the dressing room that didn't help

but essentially it was about results for Russell Martin and maybe you know there was this you know this perception of what he did at Southampton wasn't you know wasn't good enough but that would have been similar for Angelotti

you know had he come in and not got a good start then you know they'd have wanted the same thing to happen to him I think Chris also what the Rangers fans couldn't quite stomach especially latterly and this came from not only Russell Martin

but the club was this word transition and there is merit in that Rangers are a club in transition but they've been a club in transition every time they changed their manager and the Rangers fans are sick of that and transition doesn't really work in Glasgow if you're Celtic or Rangers

Russell Martin spoke about success in the medium to long term Rangers fans demand success yesterday you can't get that And I think for a lot of the Rangers fans, there's a fear that this new ownership group are pretty naive about what they've bought into, the expectations at Rangers.

I think there's a fear that they see this as a football club that maybe in the next few years can get to where they think they deserve to be. Rangers fans won't have that. They've sat in the sidelines for too long and watched the green and white parade go by. As I said earlier on, they're completely sick of it.

and they've won success now. You talked about the sort of transition, I know they don't like that word, but the transition of going from Nuno to Posta Coglu, when you see how Russell Martin's teams have played, do you also think that is going to take time? Yeah, it takes time, and I agree what the guys are saying there, what I get from, and I've never played up in Scotland,

but what I get from Rangers from following it, from watching the games when they're on the telly and different things, is you don't have times of build, you just don't. And I don't think whether it's the ownership group, the people who's gone in, whether it's obviously the manager, the players who've now gone up there this summer, I don't think they've all realised how big that place is. I don't think they have. I don't think anybody's...

I think everybody's thought we'll go up there and we'll build and we'll get better and we'll improve. And Chris knows a lot better than what I do. I only look at it from watching it. They need it now and they need it, I think, as we said, they're yesterday, and they need success every single time they play. And I don't think it's necessarily just the ownership group that haven't seen that.

I think it's players who've gone up this summer. I don't think you realize how big the football club is now. I look at it from the outside, watching the games and the support that they take to every game and the way everybody looks at the games and that's what they're all about. They live and breathe Rangers. I don't think enough people have understood

how big that is. And it is tough and going for a club going through transition, you can't go through transition there. It's just a club you can't. You need a manager, so we're talking about somebody, I'm not saying this is going to be the new manager, I'm not, and he won't because he's just got a job. But someone in the Jose Marino mode who just wins.

He just wins football games, doesn't he? And I think that's what is needed when you go up to Scotland with them, clubs. Well, Chris thinks there are other Marinoes in Leeds I don't know. If there is an Albert Marino in Leeds, I'd be interested in

Steve Morino. Steve Morino. Have they recruited well, Chris? I mean, because the Rangers games I have seen this season, and I haven't seen all of them, but they are littered with some horrific defending.

Yeah, well, and attacking. Is that on Russell Martin? And that's a legitimate question. And I think, you know, I mean, Connors talked about the pressure. And the pressure is so great if you don't win. Players like Max Arons, who was, you know, a really good player at Norwich City, I thought he would go north of the border and he would, you know, do really well. Joe Rothwell, you know, had a really good career.

These are players who have gone up to Rangers and they have just been engulfed and sort of swathed and sort of swallowed up and, you know, they go missing in games. I mean, Arons can't get a game now. It's a really highly pressurized place to play. And the recruitment, you know,

hasn't all been on Russell Martin. They've signed a boy Chimitti from Everton for the best part of the 10 million pounds. And he just, with the greatest respect, you know, it's really difficult for him. You look at his track record and Rangers fans are saying, well, why, why has the club paid 10 million for him?

You know, it's, the whole thing is just a disaster. And I don't, I don't think that this is all on Russell Martin. I think that there are problems which lie deeper. For example, you know, Kevin Thelwell and I was just, you know, you talk about optics. We talked about optics the other week about the cold water bathing. But Kevin Thelwell has just, you know, employed his son, I think, in a, in a sort of recruitment role, which isn't great optics at this moment in time. So I think Rangers fans are looking at the situation all throughout the club

and there'll be pressure on the hierarchy now to make sure they get this next decision right but there's been pressure as Chris has quite rightly said for years. Where do they go next, Chris? Because they've tried all sorts of different markets over the last three or four appointments, haven't they? Whether that's highly promising English coaches, whether it's like Russell Martin who got a side promoted.

I know he then, that Southampton then struggled in the Premier League, but there are probably several factors there. They've gone to the European market in the past. Where are they going to look, and I've asked this question before, or does the fan base demand that they appoint, in averted commas, one of their own? I mean, in terms of the last point, I don't necessarily think it's the thinking of the Rangers fans

that he has to be a Rangers man. It appears having spoken to quite a number of Rangers fans and having a quick look on social media, the man that they want back is the man who last brought them success, and that's Stephen Gerard. It would make sense to a point because he's out of luck. Rangers will have to pay Russell Martin off. They have already spent the 20 million pounds that they said they have

for a transfer kitty this season on players. that you've already discussed are questionable at best. So Stephen Gerard knows what Rangers is all about, so I suppose that ticks the Rangers Man box. He has had

recent success with Rangers. Tick that as well. He's a big name tick. They did approach Stephen Gerard last time, and he made it quite clear fairly early on that he wasn't interested. If they

have changed. We don't know. But I would suspect that Rangers will have a fair idea already who they're looking for. And I'd be very, very surprised if Stephen Gerard wasn't at least on a short list. Just to follow up on that, when he was there last time, an influential member of his back room staff was Michael Beale. Michael Beale won't be going back to Rangers with Stephen Gerard, will he? Football's a strange thing. I don't need to tell you guys how strange football can be sometimes. I did see a thread on social media asking

that very question. And actually the majority of the Rangers fans who hounded Michael Beale out, I think, would take him back if it meant Stephen Gerard coming back. He, at times or there was certainly a feeling that Beal was the brains behind

the Gerard juggernaut. I'm not sure about that. I'm sure Stephen Gerard would have things to say about that. But given that Stephen Gerard is out of a job and that Gerard and Beal had success last time, like, as I said earlier on, Rangers fans just want success. What are the threads that you've been looking at said about Sean Deich?

Because I've seen him linked quite a lot. Yeah, he has. So Sean Deich, Stephen Gerard, and the other obvious one is Derek McKinness, who is currently leading the Scottish Premiership with Harch at the moment. He has turned it down in the past. There's a feeling perhaps that once you turn

Rangers down, you don't get a second bite at it, but it's a new regime. Would he downsize? Well, it was a very good debate in the office today, Chris, about whether or not he would take it. I have my doubts because he looked under

the bonnet once and didn't like what he's seen, and I can't imagine that things have changed massively. Look, of course, we've got new ownership now there's stability at the club but where's the transfer money it's transfer money's gone

Rangers are way behind already just seven games into the season he's flying with Harts Tony Bloom's invested at Harch is he really going to walk away from that when he knows there's probably a chance that further down the line he might get that job

he might even get the Scotland job at some point Chris thank you very much can I just say really quickly on why I don't think Stephen Gerard will take the job because seven games into the season. Rangers are in eighth place.

He will go in. He will assess the squad and he will think, blimey, the expectation Rangers, as Connor said, they aren't a project. Rangers fans won't accept the team just sort of milling through this season and finishing third or fourth.

And the squad arguably, well, not arguably, just isn't good enough to compete. So I think it's more likely to be a Sean Dyshe type someone who, you know, has a track record of doing well, sort of with not the most talented squads, but somebody who is, who can go in and be really effective. Where I think Gerard, you know, he was back last time. He was there. And, but, you know, any, any manager going into

that job will do as what all the, uh, the other managers have done when there's a change and say, well, the squad's not good enough. They're not fit enough. And, uh, you need to give us 25 million pounds to try and turn things around. That would, I've got to admit, that would, all of this surprise, and I'll bow to both Chris's knowledge of the reality of life in Glasgow above mine, but all of this surprises me a little bit from what I would know or would have thought about 49ers enterprises, because I think Rangers is the hardest managerial job in the world, but, and I think it's not, it's actually not far off just a straight up impossible job, to be perfectly honest, just, you know, you're saying that Rangers is win now, there's no project, all this is happening. The world? Yeah, I think it's the hardest job in the world. Maybe Botter Jr.'s, it's up there. Botta Jr.'s, Fenabarchi, Rangers, I'd say.

They've gone to third now, have they? They're topper. I can't say for certain it's harder than Fenabarchie, but it's close. I don't see how you succeed, and the only way you succeed really, surely, is by building something, and that will take time. And at some point, you have to, as the ownership, and it's their responsibility, you have to trust the fact that you know more than the fans, that you're better at this than a random collection of people

from the streets of Glasgow, which is not to say all Rangers fans, but if you take 50 Rangers fans and put them in charge of the club, you as the people who own the club should be better at running it than they are. You can't do it just by, well, we want to win now. You have to build a project and if you look at that Rangers team, it was humiliating for Martin that they got beaten, what, 9-1 on aggregate by Club Bruges. It's a team for the championship players.

Club Bruges aren't. That's the champions lead. That is the problem. But Rangers, while they're trapped in this kind of, well, we have to win, there's no time in Glasgow, you'll never escape it. So I'm surprised that I would be surprised if the 49th Enterprise, and Andrew Kavanagh, who I know less about, went for a manager who they didn't think would succeed long term. And it might well be that that manager is Sean Deich or Stephen Gerard. That is absolutely possible. But I think they have to think long term or the entire investment is pointless.

I just wonder how much they'll be spooked though, Andrew Kavanan. Paragmarat by the fact they got this so spectacularly wrong. I mean, you mentioned the 50 Rangers fans versus the guys in charge. 50 Rangers fans, in fairness, would have told you in June that Russell Martin was the wrong fit for Rangers. Yeah, that's a fair point. So I just wonder how much them getting it so badly wrong might spook them into making decisions that normally they might not.

Yeah, that's a really good point because, as you say, you could see that Russell Martin not being right for Rangers coming a mile off. And the fact that they thought it might work is a fairly big red flag, I think. But at the same time, if you, none of those American investment groups work by abandoning their principles, they will have an idea of how to get, what they'll want is Rangers, the way they make money is for Rangers to be an established Champions League team. That is the way you make money with the team in Scotland. So that they'll have to work back from that point.

And it may well be that if they start kind of messing around and we've got to bring in a you know, a kind of interim manager effectively now to get us through the season. That then locked you into a cycle, doesn't it? And that puts that ultimate target even further away. Chris, thank you very much to coming on. Just one other thing with that, though. Rangers are now not the only...

There are other clubs now who are owned by forward-thinking interesting groups. And hearts and hibs are two of those, aren't they? So all of a sudden, doesn't the... Isn't the playing field, hasn't it been widened? Well, Tony Bloom said in an interview with Paul Haywood and The Observer at the start of the season, that he thinks that they can crack the old firm, certainly split the old firm, if not overtake both of them, because they are high-bound, beg you pardon? They could win the league this season. Do you think they can win the league?

Absolutely. Yeah, I do, yeah, absolutely. If you look at Celtic and, I mean, Celtic are as, you know, as dull as anything to watch at this moment in time. You know, it's as flat as anything. And I think that's why there's a lot of anger, even more anger amongst the race. Rangers fan base because of that. Just quickly, Rory, on the 14-9ers group, do you actually, you know,

you said about it being the most difficult club to manage in the world, do you actually think they understood what they were going into with Rangers because, you know, you can talk about long-term plans as much as you like, but when the whole stadium within

two weeks of Russell Martin taking the job are singing for your head in terms of Russell Martin, you know, wanting him out, you know, did they, would they have envisaged that happening, that being possible, you know, about the winner-at-all-cost

mentality at Rangers and Celtic? It's not normal. One of the things that a lot of, one of the things that a lot of the American investors into football in general have misunderstood is that football does not have the concept of the, you get in the US sports

of like, of trust in the process. It doesn't really exist. Was it, Chapas you'll know this? Was there the 76ers that decided to tank so they did accumulate draft picks? I mean, several teams over the years have happily tanked to get draft picks. And actually then there's fury

sometimes from a fan base if they inadvertently win a game towards the end of the season and suddenly find themselves in a different position in the draft. But I think that there is a kind of cultural gap over the Atlantic and in the sense that American ownership

groups don't necessarily realize kind of how ruthless and how impatient football fans are. It wouldn't shock me. I mean, they should have done their due diligence, obviously Perad Marath and 49ers group and Andrew Kavanaugh, they should have worked out that Rangers is not a place

where you mess about. But at the same time, I do wonder if they've looked at it. Does it, Rangers and Celtic are both incredible opportunities. It just strikes me. And I realize that Scottish listeners don't like people with English accents kind of saying this if it helps my mum's from Dumfries I don't know if that means anything to anybody

it's a Scottish Rory but they both are kind of labouring in an old world to be honest like winning the Scottish title getting bragging rights in Glasgow is really important but it should be the consequence of your project not the purpose of it and I think neither

club has quite worked that out to be perfectly honest but maybe Chris this all works out perfectly because Rangers need a manager Notting in Forrest need to get rid of theirs So maybe it ends up with Ange's taking over at Rangers Do you think I'm not going to ask you about that kind of Would Sean, do you think Sean Dye should be a good fit

In the sense of it? It wouldn't He would be able to deal with it I think he'd be able to deal with it I think that's an obvious one He's a very, very strong character We all know that It actually made a lot of sense What Rory was saying before about kind of the process of it

And it proved his point What he was saying about the Russell Martin one Now, you can say, whatever it was, it didn't work or whatever, but that was obviously what they were doing, because Russell Martin is a process manager. He's a manager who needs time. He's a manager who needs to build him. He keep on saying they need to win.

Sean Deich isn't going to be a process manager, so are the owners now going to change tacting what they're doing and go, right, we're going to bring Sean Deich now because he's really strong and he's going to get the players winning, he's going to get us winning. How long does Sean Deish stay for? I've had Sean Deich is as strong as they come, and he will get the winning.

That's 100% of fact because you'll work for now. But then that's the owner then changing tacting where they're going. So it made sense what Rory was saying. That was why he went with Russell Martin. It proved his point by going with him. But now where did he go? I don't think any of us know. Connor, are you glad you didn't end up there?

Because he's been so heavily linked the last couple of summers. I thought he was going to move on quickly. No, no. But when you said, when you said, oh, I've never played up there, there was part of me thinking, well, you came close. Yeah, I did. I did. I didn't know.

But what I'll say about that? I'm not afraid to say it now. Like, in terms of... I spoke to Russell Martin a lot in the summer, and I'm going to be really honest with you. I loved what he said. I loved what he said. I loved how he spoke on the phone.

I'm really gutted how it's turned out in terms of being up there because it is intense and the opportunity to play up there would be unbelievable. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's an intense place, mate, you know that a lot more than me, don't you?

And then you put the phone down to Russell Martin and Ryan Reynolds, frankly. Was that how it works? Yeah, it's how it wears a little bit. No, yeah, no, I'm really happy. where I am I am. Yeah. Thanks to that, Chris.

Did he actually ring you? No, I spoke to him when, honestly, I spoke to the manager. I spoke to the manager, I spoke to the manager, and he was brilliant. I said, Phil Paxson was great with me, and he outlined what was going on, but yeah, I spoke to Ryan and I was quite quickly, yeah. Right. And did it, what did he come up as, was it like, with help them? It was just a number.

Right. And he sent me a video as well, so I've got, like, a video on my phone of him welcoming me to the club and sort of character on where we want to go and how we want to do things. And that was great, yeah, that was great, yeah. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily on Tuesday We're going to have Monday Night Club Extra And on that one we're discussing Liverpool The Anger at Poster Cogaloo from Forest Fans

and Coventry's Flying Start in the Championship By Live Sports WSL And what a game of football It is to kickstart this new WSL season That's the only goal And she is able to just pick her spot Hurls this way past the best goalkeeper in the division.

BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Lucy Bruns, welcome back. What one lioness do you think would make the best rugby player? Me? Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.