Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Women’s Euros Quarter-Finals beckon & Chelsea win the Club World Cup

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Mark Chapman is joined by Nedum Onuoha, Nikita Parris and Izzy Christiansen to reflect on England progressing to the Women’s Euros quarter-finals.The team give their thoughts on the tournament so far, the state of England ahead of their quarter-final against Sweden, and former international Katie Sherwood joins the pod to discuss Wales’ campaign. Having won all three of their group games, are Norway the dark horses of the tournament? Former Norway and Tottenham goalkeeper Erik Thorstvedt weighs in. Conor McNamara commentated on the Club World Cup final, and joins the team to reflect on Chelsea’s success in the States. And finally, former Barcelona goalkeeper Ellie Roebuck joins the Monday Night Club to discuss Spain’s dominance at the Euros so far.Timecodes: 00:34 Overall opinion on the Euros so far 04:24 Thoughts on England ahead of the QFs 24:54 Reflections on Wales' debut tournament 32:21 Are Norway dark horses? 41:23 Chelsea win the Club World Cup 49:44 Spain's dominance, with Ellie RoebuckBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Wed 2000 QF1 Norway v Italy, Thu 2000 QF2 Sweden v England, Fri 2000 QF3 Spain v Switzerland, Sat 2000 QF4 France v Germany.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. deal ratings and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca. Cargurus.ca. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily Podcasts. The Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome to the Monday Night Club. Neda Minoui, Nikita Paras, and Izzy Christensen are with us. We're at the end of the group stages. We know the four quarterfinals. They start on Wednesday, Norway against Italy, Sweden against England. That's one half. Switzerland, Spain and France, Germany. That's the other half. Your overall thoughts on the

tournament so far as we head into the quarterfinals? I think the results have been predictable, if I'm being honest. I think when you looked at the groups, the teams that you think were gonna go through went through, whether that be first or second, yeah, well the game's how they set out, but I think out of all them draws England will be probably happy with the side that they've gone on, considering the media frenzy that went on after that. You know, France the beat.

You're in the media now, by the way. You're in the media now. You're in the media now. You're in the media now. You're in the media now. You're in the media now. You're in the media now. Could it have done with an unpredictable

somewhere along the way? Yeah, I think it would have been nice, but I think the level of quality in international football currently is very high. And I think the underdog teams just didn't perform. You just didn't get the results that you thought. Although, as Nadam said earlier, we could potentially see Italy or who in the semi-final? Norway.

Yeah, Norway. So my take on the tournament is there's been some real quality, some great individuals and some really good performances. For example, some of the games that, say, Spain have played, I think we could talk about, say, that France game or that first game, arguably like England's second game, not so much the third game because it's a different type of opponent. But there've been some games where I feel like I'm looking at teams that I know can't win it and probably will get knocked out the

moment they face like tougher opposition. And it's not to say that this is the way that it should be a different way and so on. But for example, Norway, to me, even though they won their group, they haven't been impressive, but they've managed to get results against Switzerland, Finland and Iceland. But against Switzerland, Finland and Iceland. But then Switzerland, Finland and Iceland, realistically, like how far do you expect them to go in the tournament? So there has been that side of things. But then from the positive standpoint, like when you see some of those performances, you

see the real quality that exists there. You've seen some of the individual performances as well, like from my side and probably the side of many others, like Pateas, the way she's been playing. It's outrageous. I'm sure some people think there could be comparable players in the league, in the tournament as such, Izzy Christensen. But yeah, I've enjoyed watching it and you get an idea of what you expect

from the later rounds. We're gonna actually talk Norway a little bit later on. Erik Torsvedt, the former Norway and Tottenham goalkeeper is working on this tournament for Norwegian TV. So he's gonna come on and I'm looking forward to all of you backpedaling on what you think about Norway. Have it just rinse them. How many of the quarter-finalists do you think can win this then?

With the group standings in front of me, or the quarter-finals in front of me here, I would say there are one, two, three, four, there are five teams who I think can win it out of the eight in there and they are Sweden, England, Spain, France and Germany. I can't see Norway winning, I can't see Italy winning it. Switzerland, I think it's brilliant they got out of the group, as cringy as it sounds, I think it's superb the host nation exited the group in the fashion that they did. There was quite a lot of controversy in the Swiss media leading into the tournament, a few negative discussions around Pierson Targa, the manager, around her style of play and what she's doing with the team. But you know what, they've shown it, they've shown their teeth and I think

they've been superb at times to watch. There's, Nedim spoke about individual performances. I think there's a few individuals in that Swiss team who have really impressed me, who I'd love to see playing in the WSL. Name names? Manchester City, I've already got a hold of one of them. Benny. And then there's another one. Rosla.

There we go. You read my mind. You read my mind. She's a very good player. So, but yeah, in terms of winning it, I think Sweden are laying low at the moment. Do I think they could win it? They could. If they beat England, I think they could go on to win it.

But Spain, yeah, they've looked exceptional. Let's talk England then. We'll come on some of the other countries in a little while. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? And therefore it's very easy to go. I wonder the opening match actually actually helped them in some ways but is that is that is that with the benefit master stroke to lose again yeah well yeah the other cliche is then every game becomes a knockout game yeah but I do think that it really helped that they did lose that

first game in terms of the group standings and how it's finished in terms of the side of the door that England have gone on, but also a mentality shift because I felt like in that in that first game against France there was too many uncharacteristic mistakes that England made that wouldn't necessarily make in other games. And I think because of the opening of the tournament and the pressure, maybe was he a little bit too relaxed or was the pressure just too much? But the fact that they lost that game gave them a, okay, maybe if they said things don't get in, things don't get

out and don't look at the media, they would have had the time to be able to reflect and go, okay, now everyone's come up for me. We've got the target on our backs. had the time to be able to reflect and go okay now everyone's coming for me we've got the target on our backs it's time to perform and I think they did in the last two group games. Is that when you talk about pressure there do you mean pressure as defending champions? Yeah 100% I mean there's got to be a pressure to be defending champions going into a tournament especially when everyone and also not just that you're defending champion you got to a World Cup final in 23. So the progression of the team and the stages in which they're reaching now, everyone is

expecting big things. The other thing with that, when we did our preview show a week before the tournament started, we talked about slight areas which maybe might have a question mark on who might play there. I suppose one of the other things that the France game did that then led to the Dutch game is probably solidified in Serena Wigman's mind what will work and what might not work and as we all know when she finds something that works she ain't shifting from that. That's right and I think the intensity of the tournament, England, you know they started

and they got a real shock from France, The way that France played took England by surprise, I thought, in many areas of the pitch. And it was almost a blessing in disguise the way that that game happened and unfolded and the way England recovered from that. And I would argue that the Netherlands game was a higher pressure game than the first game. But I did think before the tournament, the sequence of the games, France, Netherlands, Wales, was the perfect scenario of intensity for England in terms of gearing up and gathering momentum. The France game for me was a bit of an unknown. I predicted that France and England would get out of the group.

And I think that France, I've already said my piece on France, and people know that, but I think they're dark horses in this competition. And I think that that splash of water in the face, I called it cold water in the face, actually set them up nicely for the Netherlands game and then the Wales game as long as they were not complacent at all. Last night they got the job done in a very professional manner. And I think Serena Vigna has now got her 11. It's pretty clear who her 11 is now. I think it wouldn't take a genius to work out who she's going to start against Sweden on Thursday night. But it's how England tweak it tactically. And I think they've shown so many different tools tactically.

They've used Hannah Hampton with a long ball. They've used the switch of play with a long ball. They're happy to play short. They're happy to play long. I don't think you know how England are going to set up. I think I think all this stuff is valid. And what I think is a shame in some ways, just from my own personal perspective, is that the games weren't reversed,

they say Wales first and then he finished with France. Because in my opinion, and this is all due respect to what it means for Wales to be there, that game yesterday felt like a non-contest from basically like five minutes in after that first goal went in. And I don't think England from that point were realistically building towards something in the knockouts. Whereas I felt like if they would have had a

tougher game to finish there, then perhaps they could have done. You know, that sort of like, almost a feel almost like knockout football because the quality is so high, but instead they've probably had what would have been either relatively speaking, the easiest or the second easiest competition in the opposition in the competition. So you don't think the Wales game yesterday has I don't think it served any real purpose. Prepared England well enough to go and play Sweden Thursday night. You think that could leave them undercut?

I think if they would have played against a different opposition that was more of a higher quality, I think they would have played in a different manner. Because I don't know if you guys would agree as former players, but there's, when you are such a strong favourite, you play a different game to where maybe it's a little bit toe to toe, you know what I mean? And it's like going to be little tiny things that will make a difference. But I think for some of the players

that we saw yesterday, they were so comfortable. Lauren James looked great yesterday and there were times where she's just taking extra touches because she knows nobody's going to take the ball from her. But somebody's trying to kick her, trying to kick her. It's like, nah, I've got this, I've got this. When you drop your level, it's really clear and visible in a game like know, I've got this, I've got this. When, you'll know this as well, Nikita, but when you drop your level, it's really clear and visible in a game like that. I don't think England dropped their level last night. This is fair, but do you think there was another game for them? That's interesting because your point seems, reminds me of the Jamaica game before the

tournament. England obviously was comfortable in that game, scored plenty of goals and then went in and played France. Which is quite a big step up to go from Jamaica to France in a tournament. And now you're saying that potentially going from Wales to Sweden is also a big jump. So the contrast to that is Sweden played Germany in their last group game. So would you say Sweden are better equipped to play England than England are to play Sweden? These last two games might mean nothing at all. But in terms of confidence from a result,

as you're in the dressing room yesterday for England, in my opinion, you've done what you were supposed to do. Whereas for Sweden themselves, they've almost like put a marker down. And as they enter the knockouts, the belief that they have because of that result is probably gonna be higher, rest of you speaking. But as Nikita was saying before, like with England,

and Chap, as you said as well, like there's, in my mind, there's different types of pressure in these types of tournaments. There are teams that go and hope to do as well as they can. And now for England, they know that they can win it. They know they're good enough to win it. So that's a different type of pressure to all the teams that are in it. So maybe for Sweden, that's going to be affecting them in that way or something like that. But again, I was like, I was watching the game with my kids yesterday and they were all so nervous before the game I said, listen, there's not really anything to worry about here. I get the feeling this game might

be put to bed quite soon. But there are also certain games in tournaments where an England team, whether that be men's or women's or the stronger nations are on a hide into nothing. Because it's the, with all due respect to Wales here, they're the minnows in the group. So you win it, you win it six one and it's not a proper test. You win it two nil and it's, oh wow, Blimey should have done more. There's sometimes in these tournaments, there is, there is very little maneuver where you can come out of something and everybody go perfect. Perfect. Yeah. I think there's a lot of things, if you're Serena Vigman in the dugout watching the game,

watching your team perform last night against Wales, there are a lot of things you're looking for and that's the intensity of the actions, being clean in the final third, not taking silly touches and making silly things happen because you were already 4-0 up. I think England looked ruthless against Wales and I don't think that was a reflection on Wales being inferior. It was more reflection on England being top notch in terms of what they were playing. I've just got to say as well, I'm not being critical of England for how they performed yesterday because I thought professionally they were brilliant. I'm just saying it's a shame that we didn't see them have that final game against a tougher opposition because

then they would be arriving into knockouts with a different sort of energy around it if you know what I mean? Yeah I hear you. Do you then think, after this point will they leave it? We don't have to leave it, Chaps, because it's all day for us. Well no, no, no, there are plenty of it. I want to come on to Lauren James next. But if they start against Wales and beat Wales, then beat the Dutch, but then lose to the

French and go into the quarterfinals. And we then go for... Well, I would argue if they won those first two games, they'd probably put in a better performance against France. Well, you've talked your way out of that one. Thank you. Thank you very much. If England are going to go on and win this, how much rest on Lauren James? Oh, that's a lot of pressure to put on one player.

But I do think in order for her to, it's important for her to perform. And I think she's done that since the France game. I think game by game she's got better. But I do think that in order for England to continue to progress, I think you have to get your Nana, Alessia Russo, scoring more goals.

On the contrast to that, they've scored a lot of different scorers. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's important that goals come from everywhere, but you want your best players playing and playing well and doing their job, as in Alessio scoring, Lauren creating, Tooney creating and scoring,

which he's done in the last two games, to be fair to her. Gonna chuck a wild card in there. I don't think it's as important for Lesiru so to be firing. Why? Because of her general play. No. What else she does in a game and the contributions to how her movement affects other players,

I think is so crucial. I think it's important for, but as a striker you want to score goals. Yeah. And ultimately confidence comes from doing your job on what you want to do as a player. So as a striker you want to score goals and ultimately confidence comes from doing your job and what you want to do as a player. So as a striker myself, I know that yeah, it's great creating and creating space for others and allowing the game to feed off you feed within the game, but scoring goals just no better feeling.

Is your tournament defined by goals? How many goals you score? As a striker, yeah. What about Harry Kane? Harry Kane last year at the manjaro's your game But how long did it take him to score? But was he happy kept playing? He kept playing? Of course, you're gonna play Harry Kane's your captain, but what's happy? No confidence comes from scoring goals. I'm sorry, but and I think also When players are coming off the bench and scoring like I could be the Jones like a Beth me It that also puts pressure on you as a striker and you want to be performing and you want to be scoring as well. So I think if you ask

Alessia Russo after this tournament, what would she want? Goals or assists? She's telling you goals. She's telling you goals. I was struggling. I struggled to remember what I did last week, let alone what Harry Kane did in the first game. You've got an incisive memory. I was like, what did he do in the start of the year? It took him. I think it was his fourth. I think it was his fourth game for Harry Kane did in the first half. You get memory. I was like, what did he do in the start? I think it was his fourth, I think it was his fourth game for Harry Kane to score.

But is there, because I've heard you praising so much Alicia Russo's movement and the space as you say that that then creates for others. Is there something dissatisfying then as a striker about creating a goal simply by moving? As in, you actually

haven't contributed the assist and you haven't scored it, but the movement was brilliant so that it left the space. Are you like, I mean it's great we scored it. He looks angrier by the way. How dare you say it's not about scoring goals. But that's the difference in the argument to ascertain. Yeah, that's the difference between a midfield and a forward I guess. A goal scorer midfield. Alright, fair play. But I do think that's okay for one game to be able to create space for others and maybe not get an assist but but getting the pre-assist

if you want to call it that. But I think as a striker, you want to be scoring goals. So you won't be happy without scoring. Back to Lauren James then, who was criticized in the French game, but had a different role to then what she played in the next two. Why the difference?

Why the difference in terms of performance? What suits, rather than being the 10 and being out wide and then being able to come into that space that Alicia Russo is then left, why does that work better for her? Do you know what? I don't usually do this, Chappers, but I'm going to pass this one over to Izzy. Wow. Forehand down the line. You're the resident tactician, the coach, and the person that would like to be in the stadium. I've got a question about hoofing it 60 yards next time. That might not be me either.

That might not be me either, Shepard. In midfield, out of possession, there's a lot of work to do, right? And Lauren James is not notoriously a midfield workhorse. That's not her skill set. Her skill set is, as we all know, getting on the ball, dribbling, enticing players, creating scoring. Give her half a yard, she finds the top corner, like she did against Netherlands.

I think it was a little bit of a, I don't want to say road shout because I know how much thought process goes behind Vigman's team selection. But I think hindsight, the physicality and the dominance of the French midfield exposed Lauren James in central areas. Do you drop Lauren James or do you tweak her positioning is then the next question ahead of the second game.

I then look at the relationship between Lauren James and Lucy Bronze on the right-hand side as Lauren James has moved over. And I think having, if we had another fullback that wasn't Lucy Bronze, would Lauren James play on the right wing? I'm saying no. Okay. Because I think Lucy Bronze's ability to read what Lauren James is doing and work

around her and off her, if we saw the game last night against Wales, Lauren James was a wide winger and Lucy Bronze inverted as a fullback, so packed out the central area. And I think that just becomes, that comes from Lucy Bronze inverted as a fullback, so packed out the central area. And I think that just becomes, that comes from Lucy Bronze's experience. And she kind of just passes on the forward space to Lauren James and says, do what you want and I'll mop up behind you.

And I think that's probably in hindsight, the best way to use Lauren James. She can still play centrally, but I think in a game, the heat of the midfield battle against France, against Sweden, I don't think it's going to be the right position for her. I think Lauren James' position as a 10 is very difficult because she doesn't stay central.

She floats into the wide or the left pocket, but then when the ball turns over, it's coming right through the heart of your team. So defensively, it does open your shape up. And especially with a sit in midfielder like Keira Walsh not gonna be front footed she's gonna have to wait and when players are coming in 10s are dropping in either side of her, 9s are dropping in it becomes then difficult on the transition that's why England tend against counter-attacking teams to struggle because the back line and the shape is so expansive as well as the midfield when that first pass goes through the heart of your team, they're on the back foot straight away.

Do you think some of this is because she's probably a better dribbler than a passer, would you say, in terms of general flow? I don't think you can differentiate between the two with Lauren James. Her weight of pass is unbelievable. It's Pateus level. I was talking more so just because earlier in the tournament, for example, Caroline Graham Hansen was playing as a 10 and it just wasn't working at all. But then she's gone out wide and she's had more of an impact. So let's say she's been perfect, but she's had more of an impact.

But they're two different types of players. No, that's what I was trying to allude to, because I understand the different types of wingers, but what I was trying to find the link to was the amount of touches that they take. Because I feel like most central base players take fewer touches. Is that when you get the best out of Lauren James, is she's having fewer touches?

It's a male player, springs to mind, his name's Phil Foden, central or wide. Okay. Like it's the same kindrum, player who's exceptional on the ball, can see a pass that not many others can see, can take the ball on the move and traverse across the pitch. Instead of running forward, they sometimes traverse.

I think Lauren James does that. And that just completely changes the landscape of the defensive shape of the opposition. So I think her best role in this England team in this present moment is where she's been playing. Yeah, I agree. And I think you spot on, Keeks, by the way. You talk about me being an inverted commas tactician. That was good from you, by the way. I'll give you that. Listen in team meeting. Ellen White said that she has a wonderful aura. You said after the win over the Dutch

that there's no ceiling on her talent and she could be a potential global superstar. Does she need to believe that? I think she knows in her talent. I think her aura and her personality is so laid back. Like the game literally comes natural to her. Like she doesn't have to think too hard about what she wants to do with the ball or what position. She knows if she's at right back, she knows she can dribble with the ball up the pitch and able to fend off people. And I think her talent, honestly, it's a difference between watching her and playing with her. She makes the game. She reminds me of a German player I used to play with at Lyon called Gisenyfer Marzan.

Listen, like plays the game like she's on PlayStation. And that reminds me of Lauren. When you're playing with her in and around her, she sees passes nobody sees, can play the way to pass like it is he said before. And that's special. And you don't find that in many players. So in, we've all watched the tournament now, we've all seen Spain and we've all seen Pateas.

Pateas or Lauren James? Is that a little- Whooop we just gave you? There we go. No, who would you, in this present tournament right now, who would you rather have on your team, Lauren James or Alexia Pateas? Well, we are on English radio, but I will, I'll drift to say Pateas

on this particular occasion. I just feel like, for the way that Spain play, like, to be fair, it's the same points that like Nikita is trying to say here, like we've all played football at whatever level, but she makes it look really easy. But how can it look so easy when everyone else is trying really hard to stop her? You know what I mean? And there's some male players like that, I've seen players everywhere, well not everywhere, but some players who would play in that manner. I think Pateas is operating at that sort of speed as well,

where everything seems like it's just really slow around them. But as we've played, it's hectic around you. So for these attackers who can play like that, I would still go Poteas. But I'm guessing Izzy, you'd go the other way. I'd still stay Poteas for now, but the fact that we're saying those two names in the same sentence kind of suggests the trajectory of Lauren James, doesn't it? I'm going to sway towards Lauren James only because I've played with her and I know her talent and how she helps others in the game and can bring others in.

But obviously we've seen Pateas in the tournament and some of the stuff sheets producing is top. Just when Nadam then, because we haven't worked together before, when Nadam says we've all played football, I've got loads of pub football anecdotes. I wanted to be inclusive, I wanted to be inclusive. When he said that, you looked so shocked that I thought, you know, better just explain that. I'd like to keep you fed, Chappers. Thanks very much, Nadam. You can start laughing, is it? The threats posed by Sweden or what?

Wide areas, Rytten Connery, Jannegy, Blaxtonius down the middle. I think Philipp Engel Dahl is having a wonderful tournament in midfield. I think it sounds very easy to say, but I think as a unit Sweden are very strong. They're very clear on the way they play, they're very clear on their structure and possession. I think the experience in their team makes them very hard to beat. Got a very savvy manager, Peter Gehardsson, who's been around the team for many, many years. You said they've sort of crept up on everything. Yeah, they have. And I've seen them twice this tournament. And I think I've been so

impressed with the attacking output, the numbers, the way they attack, the way they move the ball, the flow of the team. It is similar to the way England played but probably a little bit more transitional and yeah I think if you know we looked at Delfin Cascarino the wide right forward for France and what she did to our left-hand side in the first game, Rit and Carnivid has the capacity to do the same. I do have sort of queries, question marks around what her end product's gonna look like in the final third but it's still to say she can cause a lot of damage down our left.

Karen Barsley made the point on Five Live Nikita that along the lines of what Izzy said you know the quick wingers, the experienced midfield, the threats in behind, all things that England have at times had problems with. Yeah, it's the pace. The pace of them from four, even Aslanu can pick out a pass to Black Stenius or Ritz and Canard. Yeah, you're in trouble. And I think that is what England will be wary of,

not giving the ball away easy like they did in the France game, not allowed Cascarino, Baltimore to run out of the fence and cause problems. But yeah, that's Sweden's side. Nadum said they were a star-horse team, didn't you? Yeah, I'm still here. Did you really? I'm standing on business, yeah, that was me.

Wow. Yeah, I know, I know. Obviously, I mean, it could all go west very quickly, but for now, I'm feeling comfortable, yeah. Let's turn our attention to Wales, one of two teams making their debut in Switzerland, Poland with the other ones. It was difficult for them, 3-0 defeat by the Dutch, 4-1 defeat against France and then

that heavy loss to England. On Sunday, former Wales midfielder Katie Shewer joins us. Good evening Katie. Good evening, thank you for having me. Thank you very much for coming on. At the end of that then, how do you assess it? I think first of all, just that overriding feeling of pride of how the team have represented themselves and showcased the passion and what it truly means to represent Wales. Obviously,

we were in a really tough group and we know we're going to have to defy all the odds to even make it out of the group. We were kind of written off before we even kicked the ball against you know real pedigree and elite of Europe but on reflection I think we did the best we could do considering our ranking and where we as a nation ultimately were not good enough to compete at this level yet but there's lots of moments of magic and legacy that we have to celebrate you know those wins, our first ever game at a major tournament, it was a massive moment for Wales. Sophie Engle returning to the pitch, I think the character of the team to keep believing and fighting in some really tough conditions and last

night was really tough to watch and obviously our most cap player, Jessica Fischlott, getting that first iconic goal was a massive moment for the team and a huge boost. I'm not sure how possible this question is to answer really but when you look at sort of the major nations, experienced nations at these Euros, how far behind in terms of development do you think a country like Wales is? I think, you know, the realistic and brutal answer is we're at least 10 years behind, and we have to find a way as a nation to try and close that gap. We've made massive strides forward. You know, qualification was massive for us, but now as a nation and as an FAW, we have to find a way to use this as a catalyst to keep pushing this team

forward and develop the nation from the bottom up, really. I mean, that is happening, isn't it? I mean, football is the largest participation sport among girls in Wales now, but that's, you know, as you've said, that is going to take time and probably more needs to be done even than that. Yeah, and let's put into perspective, we're ranked 30 in the top of 16 teams in Europe and we were the last home nation to qualify as well. So this is the minimum standard now that we have to be at, but we have to find a way to ensure how do we qualify again?

We have to have that continued investment from the people at the top, from Noel Mooney and David Adams of the FAW, to ensure the long-term sustainability of the game. We have to strengthen our talent and our youth pathways and build a pipeline of young talent that aligns with the Welsh way and that we need to be more competitive in those fixtures. And we need to look at the group of players we have now and with our friends in, maximize and enhance everything that we already have and everything will be, you know, and analyze everything because we have to find a way to close the gap.

And you can see the gap is very big. Yeah. Hi Katie, it's Nikita here. I want to ask you, how do you close the gap when you've got your most experienced players like Jess Fishlock, Sophie Hingle, who are potentially coming to the end with the Wales? How do you then believe in the new talent, even though your experience is going potentially out the door? Well, that's where you have to turn your focus to, don't you? We do have a group of young talents coming through. We've seen the likes of Carrie Jones, Mary McAteer, Maisie Davis,

Safia, Middleton Patel. That's really where the focus needs to go. We have to start strengthening those youth pathways. And I think a lot of our young players play within their comfort zone. They need to be exposed to better opposition. And that means leaving Wales and going to England and playing in the WSL and playing consistently at the top levels, being exposed in those high-pressure situations. I think that's where the focus needs to be, is that next-generational talent. Okay, we still have and Harry James, Hayley Ladd, you know, that bulk of experience, but our focus has to go through to

those youth players because they are going to be the next group of players we want to be qualifying. Katie, looking at year 11 from last night's game and then obviously the substitutes as well, there is a disparity in club level being played there. So to bridge the gap for now, the players that aren't playing in WSL clubs or teams in the NWSL, or obviously Kerry Jones is playing out in Sweden. Do you think that they need to be brave? Is that what you're saying, and go and play at WSL clubs, but equally, how do they find those clubs?

Yeah, it's tough, isn't it? Because an opportunity comes and you go and play at a top club like Chelsea, Manchester United, it's great to be signed to these teams. You know the facilities and everything you have, the coaching, the players you're around. It's great, but if you're not playing,

if you're not getting those 90 minutes of football and then you're throwing it into a starting level and international level, you've seen last night, we didn't defend properly and lots of the players, it's because they're not playing consistently. Wilkinson, she's made a lot changes and I think that did affect our back line a lot. But we've actually looked at the goals that England scored. They weren't world-class goals, it could have been avoidable. We didn't defend

our box properly and I think when you don't have that confidence, that momentum when you're playing at club level, it obviously affects you when you then meet up internationally. Those moments that you've mentioned at this tournament, qualifying for the first time, seeing Jess Fishlock score that goal, seeing the assists yesterday as well, scoring against England while they scored against England. As you approach the next tournaments, has the bar been raised to where expectation is rightly in a different position now? And as a consequence, the perception of success and failure, has that changed for Wales or

are we still in a very similar position? No, I think this is the minimum standard now at elite level, and it's great to celebrate. Yeah, we got to our first major tournament. OK, but now what's the next part? How do we then qualify again? How do we find a way to actually compete? So I think that mindset, that mentality has to shift to,

OK, let's not just celebrate getting there. Now, the next part of the journey is how do we compete? How do we challenge? To ensure we qualify against we've seen with Scotland Republic of Ireland, they haven't consistently qualified since they first qualified. So what can we do better that they haven't done? Yeah, but it has to be at the top, you know, that the people at the FAW, they have to put that investment in, they have to analyse everything in order to improve. But that qualifying, particularly for the next tournament,

which is the World Cup in Brazil in 2027, is difficult. If you are Wales in League B of the Nations League, that takes automatic qualification out of it. Yeah, we know that being relegated from Ligue A is really tough and being in League B is a more difficult route for us and I think you think about the evolution of this team now there's already questions well who retires, who's coming through, we know that qualification is a long process so they are the big questions that Wilkinson and her team will have to answer to as well.

Thank you very much for joining us this evening. Katie Sherwood, former Wales midfielder with us this evening. Going to move on to Norway next. They play Italy in the quarterfinals. Former Norway and Tottenham goalkeeper Eric Torsved covering the tournament for Norwegian TV and is in Switzerland joins us this evening. Hi Eric, how are you?

Fine thanks, but still in Norway. I'm going a bit back and forth to Switzerland tomorrow. Oh, you go there tomorrow. Given that Norway scraped into these finals, have they surprised the Norwegian public with how it's gone so far? It's been quite confusing the whole thing because first of all we won the lottery and got that group, if you compare our group to England's group, I mean it's a totally different matter isn't it? So we were lucky with the draw but we had two of those nations in our group also in the Nations League and it was just totally even matches. Two draws against Iceland, beats Switzerland twice, but they were very even matches kind of going either way.

So I was very uncertain about how things were going to go because the last couple of euros for Norway, they've been disastrous. We lost 8-0 to England and there's been discontent and not very harmonious camps. So I thought, I was afraid it was going to go bad again. But suddenly we won all three matches. But it's confusing because the first two, it played so badly and still won. And how do you, what do you do then? Are you extremely happy or do you think, well, this can't continue like that? And then for the third match when we were through, but we had also won our group after two matches.

So there was no pressure and she changed, Gemma Granger, she changed six players and suddenly we were great. They played really, really well. And after that, I'm like super optimistic. I think I've seen all of Italy's matches and I think we can beat them in the quarter. But that's just after seeing the third match. And now the big question is, of course, what does she do with the, what team does she pick? Because you've got all these quite big names

and then some of them are on the bench and others come in and perform really well. So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens when she picks the starting 11 on Wednesday. From afar, I covered their opening match against Switzerland, out in Switzerland. And I agree with you, I thought they were really poor and lucky to win the game. The way they celebrated after that game, do you think that was relief as such because they performed badly? And the second thing I want to ask is, well or say, is it is crying out to me as a team that needs to drop some of the big names? Oh wowzers, easy for you to say huh? Let's start with the first question with the celebration.

And I thought it was, I was quite moved to be honest. And I was so happy because, you know, things were going down the drain and suddenly in an incredible second half, that was so weird. I mean, we scored out of nothing and equalized and then we got another one just after from an own goal. And then we get a penalty and Ada Hegerberg misses. And then 30 seconds later, Switzerland gets a penalty. And then it's taken away by VAR.

So it was just like a total emotional roller coaster. And but if you win the first match and against Switzerland, the host nation, I mean, that's that's big anyway. So I was I was just happy. But to the next question with who you're going to pick, I mean, the big discussion is now in the striker position because Ada Hegerberg has been made captain. And I have to say, she looks like a really good captain

because she really goes for it. She encourages and she tries to use her voice and influence and really lift everyone. But the problem with Ada is that, I mean, she's never been quick, and she's never been like a really great footballer. She's just been absolutely incredible putting the ball into the back of the net. I mean, like no one else. It's been just amazing. But now she's just even a tad little bit slower. You know, her mind wants but her body can't. So she's really struggling. And when we try to press, it's difficult because she just can't do it that well. So the problem

both against Switzerland and Finland in the next match was that they just played straight through us. Just rolled the ball just straight through us. We tried to press, we couldn't move our legs, we didn't get close to anyone. It was just incredible to watch how the games were unfolding, but somehow we managed to turn it in our favour anyway. So Gugu Reiten, obviously she will probably drop to the bench, I would think. But Gemma Granger is a really conservative coach. That's our impression so far. She doesn't take any risks. She plays it safe all the time. But now, obviously, there are some players that played in that very good 4-3 win against Iceland that they have to play. Like

we got this 20-year-old Cygni Goebb set that came in there and she had two assists and two goals. So I mean, if you drop her back to the bench, it's going to be an opera. So you're telling me that going into the quarterfinals of the Euros, you're going to drop your captain ahead of that game? Yeah, I mean, some say you can't drop your captain when she made her captain, she made a choice and you can't drop her. I think to be fair, I think the captaincy is a bigger thing in England than it is

in Norway. I've been in England for a long time. I don't know what it comes from. It's some cultural heritage, some warfare. I don't know what it comes from. It's some cultural heritage, some warfare, some genuine... Eric, we got on the show and Nedim was already flexing his muscles about being Captain Acupierre. Yeah. But I believe that, you know, because as I said, before earlier competitions, tournaments, we've had massive problems and, you know, fighting in fighting and stuff like that. And I think if you make Ada captain and you drop her to the bench, I think she will see her responsibility.

I think she will continue to support the team and, you know, back everyone, maybe in a different way than she would have done if she wasn't captain. So I'm pretty sure that she will do that. And, you know, I think you just have to pick the best team. But you know how it works sometimes, don't you, Eric? The sort of team stumble into a tournament, get through the group stage, all the criticism about a captain or a legendary player, and before you know it, you find yourself in a final. Yeah. player and before you know it you find yourself in a final. So many times history tells us that how it works but that would be sort of running before

you could walk would it? Yeah I mean we had this discussion because the way we were playing and people were saying this isn't sustainable if they play like this but sustainable doesn't really come into the Euros. I mean, there's so few matches. I mean, you can just stumble your way through. And we can, I can see us beating Italy, but then it will be stopped. I mean, there's no way we can make it to a final.

I mean, I just can't see that because there's big golf in class, I have to say, and you can see it from some of the results. And Norway are just not on the level as, I mean, France, Spain, England, even Sweden. We played Sweden just before the Euros, last warm-up match, and they had no problems in beating us in Oslo. So they're just a level above. But getting to a semi would be like, what a success. What an incredible summer. We would be really, really happy. Eric, thank you very much for coming on. Really good to talk to you.

Take care. All right, Eric Torsved with us on the Monday Night Club. the club. Five Live has the perfect line-up of podcasts to accompany the Euros. All the latest analysis, interviews and debate from Switzerland in the Football Daily podcast. We have them experienced players that have experienced winning with England. That Welsh passion, we never know when we're beaten. Hello, I'm Maisie Adam. And I am Suzie Ruffall.

And together we host the women's football podcast, Big Kick Energy. The award winning. Oh yes, award winning. Yes, very much so. And join Lionesses, Ella Toon and Alessia Russo in the Toonie and Russo podcast. I know where I'll take you for your hen-do.

Benidorm. Oh yes. I would like that. Take the Euros with you this summer. Search women's Euros on the BBC Sounds app. On the Football Daily Podcast, the Monday night club with Mark Chapman. Listen on BBC sounds. We'll go talk Spain. I just want to do the club world cup though, after Chelsea won that beating Paris Saint Germain. Three nil to lift that trophy on a podium that also included Donald Trump as Rhys James was lifting

it. Conor McNamara was there commentating on the match. At the end of this tournament, how are you feeling? I genuinely had a really good time, Chapters, honestly. A lot of travel, 30 days. I was there for the very first game. Got to see Messi in the flesh. You can never do that too often.

And I did enjoy it. And I absolutely know there'll be see Messi in the flesh. You can never do that too often. And I did enjoy it. And I absolutely know there'll be mixed feelings in certain places. But a lot of people watched the tournament over the course of it. And genuine, there was some really good football. And the bit that I enjoyed, you know, it was great. Paris Saint-Germain played fantastic, you know,

thumping at Let It Go and Real Madrid and all that. But the bit that I enjoyed the most was probably when it was teams that we'd never see playing against each other. So for example, Bocca juniors against Bayern, you know, a competitive game between those is not something we get every day. And the contrast in thoughts that actually the Benfica Bocca game, it was a Mexican referee. Had that been in Europe,

there would have been four red cards in the first 10 minutes. You know, so it was kind of different interpretation of the game that we all know, but of course, totally different, you know, and, you know, the way the teams came out in the lineup, completely different to what we're used to. To be honest, I didn't watch much of the halftime show. And I think a lot of people were saying, this is not football. But you know what?

I commentated on the Champions League final in May in Munich. And Linkin Park were out on the pitch playing their music. I don't see a huge difference between that kind of stuff. But yeah, it reminds me of Chappers. It's the time when U2 released an album and put it on everyone's phone. And they kind of thought, well, if people don's, it reminds me of Chappers. It's the time when, when U2 released an album and put it on everyone's phone and they kind of thought, well, look, if people don't like it, they'll just ignore it. If they do like it, great. But, but they didn't count really the people who don't like it really will be vocal about how they don't like it. So, so, you know, here's the

football tournament. It's free. If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. But yeah, yeah, certainly caused a ripple anyway. And some of the best football, I was just going to say, came in that first 45 minutes of the final. I mean, you can't take anything away from Chelsea. No, look, honestly, the criticism I've heard of the tournament have all been predetermined things about, you know, that the weather was going to be too hot or the kickoff times were going to be strange or that, you know, Auckland shouldn't have been there. These were things that were decided before a ball was kicked.

I really haven't heard much criticism about the quality of the games themselves. The football was very good. And in the week building up to the final, and I'd seen a lot of Paris Saint-Germain, and I thought Paris Saint-Germain are going to win this final because they are the best team on the planet right now. I don't see the weakness.

I can't see how Chelsea are going to exploit it. And fair play to Enzo Maresca. This idea of the keeper, Martinez, launching it long over the top of Nuno Mendes, this defender who no one could go around him, no one could go past him, no one could go through him all season, he's outfoxed the best wingers in the league. But they went over him, and no one had done that before. And it worked, and it produced the goals.

And I thought, tactically, genius. It was great to see how Paris Saint-Germain, who, you look back over the teams that they've beaten this season. And this was the ninth time they played a Premier League team. You know, they played City, they played Arsenal, they played Villa, they played, I'm even forgetting, but over the two legs and all that. Liverpool. They played nine different games. Liverpool, yeah, and beat them. You know, so you

think this is a really, really good team and Chelsea were able to outfox them. And one thing I'll say about Chelsea is I do think I saw this coming. I remember towards the end of the season, you look at their form, they were putting in really good performances. I remember commentating on their game when they beat Liverpool. Now it was the first game after Liverpool had been crowned champions. So everyone was sort of saying, well, Liverpool kind of on the beach and I think Chies have played and all that. But although, I mean, I actually didn't think Liverpool played bad that day. I just think Chelsea was so on it and gave an indication of, you know, this almost throw the paint at the wall and hope that you get a piece of art. So many players they've

bought in, the turnover has been crazy, but now they finally got a really balanced team. And I think there's going to be so much written and spoken about this. Can Chelsea now continue this into next season and actually challenge for the Premier League title? Thank you very much, Conor. I'll throw that to the panel now. Cheers Chappers. I ought to point you in the direction by the way, if you go on the BBC Sport website there's obviously coverage of Chelsea's win but there is a brilliant photo of Rhys James about to lift the trophy with Donald Trump next to him. Pitch invader.

But no, it's Cole Palmer's look in the background looking at looking at Trump, what an earthy, I mean, I would love to put it in a more Mancunian way, but basically what an earthy... Do you have to practice these things? Like surely, like they've had a rehearsal, say this is how you're going to do it. Even if they've had a rehearsal. He's gone rogue, hasn't he? Yeah, he's gone rogue. Yeah, I've got to do what I want.

Fancy that. Do you think this is a game changer for Chelsea? I think for their belief, yes. And I think for their fan base, absolutely yes. Because it wasn't that long ago where they were like fan protests outside of stadium and the like saying that it should be contesting and they don't like the way that the club's doing the business and the ownership and so on. But they've just seen their team go in a tournament, which has featured the likes of Real Madrid,

Man City, you know, Bocca Juniors, all these sides and Price and Jermain, who, you know, up until yesterday were like felt like the best team in the world. So I think it does matter. And I think for them, they're the only team that can say that this summer was not wasted. He went to that tournament and they're lifting that trophy. And the next time someone can do that is in four years time. If ever. If it happens again, fair do. But yeah, four years. I'll throw a point at Izzy in just a moment, but Nikita, on your first ever Monday night club, I would say

you've already perfected what I would call the Chris Sutton scowl in how you looked at Naver when I asked him, when he said it could be a game changer. My only adverse point to that is they had a really good start to their Premier League season and then we see towards the end of the Premier League season, they tailed off. So I would never have thought that they would have went on to win the Club World Cup considering the performances towards the end of the season. So you're quite impressed with them then? Different pressure.

You're impressed? I'm impressed at the BPSG, yeah. Because I actually- Not made it to the final, just impressed at the BPSG. At the BPSG, yeah. I'm impressed they made it to the final. Just impressed to be P.S.G. I'm impressed they made it to the final. I think for me all across this journey, like Mareska's had a ton of criticism and so on. And one thing about this squad, which was very, very apparent, is that it was a young squad. One thing that's been shown across this last year is that they're coachable and they're getting better.

And as you see them play now, you kind of know how they're going to do it. But not many teams know exactly how to stop it. And adding to that the X-facts of someone like a Cole Palmer, for example, you know, whether it's a Nettle running behind and, you know, bringing in Gial Pedro and De Laap, they're like objectively a good side. Well, that was the point I was going through. Flip it, okay? Normally a season ends and teams go on a break and then the transfer window starts and then normally there's brinksmanship and whatever

and eventually you get players in two days before the season starts or a week after the season, your domestic season has started. If they have managed to get two or three players in already and have played, they've kept going and now they're gonna have three weeks off, that's what Marescuara said, and then they come, we'll only know probably in September, October. But this could be a good, and they've earned a hundred million quid as well.

That'll do it. That's nice. Okay, but all of a sudden that, yeah. Wait, hold on, where are we now? July, what date is it today? Fourteen. Three weeks off, Premier League season starts August 16th. Yeah.

Interesting. But, but. Well, it could be a, it could be a. Yeah, it's an interesting one for me because I, off the back of Eddum's point about being coachable, because I think this time last season or toward the start of the last, last season in the Premier League, they didn't look like a team who were coachable

and they looked like a team that had friction in the dressing room. And they looked like a team that didn't know where they stood as individuals. They've rectified that issue, and I don't know if I'm saying this because I know a certain guy, right? But they brought in Willie Issa,

who has a rugby league background, to be, I would describe him as a cultural architect, somebody who knows culture in sport and what it takes to proverbially sweep the sheds. It doesn't really surprise me that they've now got two trophies, including the Europa Conference League and the Club World Cup. Whatever's next, I don't know, because it also depends on the strength of the teams in the Premier League this season coming, which should be very interesting.

But if they've gone from being looking uncoachable and not very teamy, if you like, cohesive, to all of a sudden winning and being cohesive, to me that says something. We're going to move on to talking about Spain, the world champions. You've already won 5-0, 6-2, and 3-1 against Portugal, Belgium and Italy respectively. Are they your favourites?

Yeah, go on then. Let's keep it really simple. Yeah, absolutely. I think for the way that they've played, they've been in the last game, I think, against Italy, there was a moment where you thought, oh, maybe they're flappable and so on. But I think for the amount of goals that they can score, it'd be very hard, in my opinion, for a team to come up against them and keep them quiet. So I'm a believer, unless they're maybe like two goals down and really having to play a different style of football, I think they're going to be the

ones for me. Well, they are my sweepstake teams. Wow. Corruptions are so lucky. With all due respect, that's done by luck rather than judgment. Well, some might say corruption, but carry on. Wow. Wow. I'm not some,

I just hope some might say it. Who did you get, Adam? I think I started off with Finland then I moved to Iceland and I think at some point I had... Who was in charge of this sweepstake? It was the BBC digital team so you need to look at them if there are any concerns. I feel a bit of bitterness over the other side but... That's exactly what it is. You know Spain still have to perform and I think their group stage results speak for themselves. I think, wow. Did you have the hosts in the course? Easy group.

I'm chucking it out there. Easy group. I must say Norway's group was the easiest group. Norway's group. Italy, Belgium, Portugal. Thought Belgium were poor. Italy haven't sort of started cooking yet, even though they got out of the group, but I think that's more of a reflection on Belgium and Portugal. I thought Belgium were poor. Italy haven't sort of started cooking yet, even though they got out of the group, but I think that's more of a reflection on Belgium and

Portugal. So does that mean their first real test could come in the semi-final? I think it could, yeah. Oh, we're just dismissing the quarters. I'm hugely disrespectful to Switzerland. But also in my mind I'm thinking, you're talking about the sweepstakes, you haven't gone through a corrupt sweepstake until you've done a golf one with Five Lives Alistair Bruce Ball. They are terrible. But if you dismiss Switzerland, then going back to Nadam's point about who you face when and this, that and the other, then if they get

to France or Germany, then all of a sudden they're going to step up that they haven't had earlier in the tournament. That's right, yeah. And I think Spain perform in most games in a similar fashion to the way England performed against Wales last night. They're very clean, they're professional, they're tidy. They move the ball so quickly that even if you have a sufficient defensive game plan, they are able to exploit you and make passes through the gaps in the team and they've just got that ability all over the park. But yeah, I think Switzerland will pose a very different challenge for Spain because Switzerland are very good on the counter attack

and that is literally the only way they play. Let's bring Eli Roebuck into this to get more of an insight into Spain. Obviously moving back to the WSL this summer and coming to Aston Villa, but I spent a year in Spain with Barcelona and Ellie joins us now. Evening Ellie. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you very much for coming on. Are they a level above, do you think? I think the guys touched on it then. They're going to be a very difficult team to beat and I think you are going to have to suffer in order to beat them. I think it's a very, very tough job and maybe it's

quite difficult to see who will beat them in this tournament. Does their strength in depth as well make them, I mean I know everybody wants to play their strongest 11, but the strength in depth depth they managed to rest six players against Italy and still come through as they did is that one of their biggest tools as well? Yeah definitely I think like we saw the other night they brought Aytaner back into the squad and to be honest in the first two games to miss a player like that but still be able to perform at such a high level relying on younger players like Vicky Lopez who's literally seamlessly just stepped in and being able to perform at the highest level. Elle, it's Nikita here girl, hope you're okay. Hey Keith. Tell us about the level of Bamati and how good she actually is because obviously we

get to see it on TV but what is it like playing with her, training with her? Yeah definitely. I think for me she's just super tidy, she does all the basics well. She's really good at staying on the ball in super tight spaces, she doesn't mind like the contact of a challenge or she's happy to keep the ball but I think probably one of the main things that I would say that is the best thing she brings is she makes all the plays around her look good and I think you see that naturally like some players are amazing and they're individually amazing but she can really make plays around her look good with the short passing and the movement, like she's easy to find on the ball. And I think that's probably one of the key things.

I think, obvious, she's good on the ball. She's a great dribbler and she finds those spaces. But I think her relationship with the wide players or the opposite midfielder and into the nine is what makes her the best for me. Ellie, I'm going to chuck a real difficult one at you here, because I know you trust me. You've obviously trained with these players at Barcelona, the majority of the team, right? How do I phrase this? How do they suffer? So how do you make them suffer? So when you see them getting annoyed

in training, what is it that's making them annoyed in training? Yeah, it's a really difficult one actually, because I've not necessarily seen them suffer too much. Obviously, the obvious ones are when they played City in the Champions League and also Arsenal in the final. But if I look back at maybe the City and the Champions League, City were ultra aggressive, like ultra aggressive, used their physicality, like really took the game to them and almost caught them off guard a little bit.

And I think maybe that's the only way. But like I say, I think that's gonna be super hard looking at the first games and how they've started with the kind of momentum and the rhythm they've got. They're not necessarily in a bad moment, whereas maybe then it was not the best moment for them. So is it using that physicality to knock them out of their rhythm? I think so, yeah, and maybe just getting up in their faces and really not giving them the time

on the ball, even though they are amazing at moving it in tight spaces. So it's a really difficult one. I wouldn't like to be an opposition manager for sure. What have you made of England so far? I think obviously the the Friends game, they'd be disappointed with that and probably how they performed as a team, but they seem to have really left that in the dust now and the performance the other night was just really controlled. They had a job to do and they did it. They approached it really well. Nice to score six goals as well which is obviously building confidence for the games going forward.

Do you have a favourite? My favourite who's going to win the tournament, it's between Spain and England and I think that will be the final, is my answer. What's the scoreline? The wifi is breaking the bowl. Thank you very much for coming on Ellie, thank you. No worries. So you've seen Ellie Roebuck with us on the Monday Night Club.

So the quarter final line-up, just to remind you then Norway Italy on Wednesday Sweden England on Thursday Spain Switzerland is on Friday all on 5 live and BBC one from 8 o'clock then you've got France Germany on Saturday night and you'll be able to hear that on BBC sounds Nikita, Izzy, Nader, thank you very much. Hello, Chris Jones here from Rugby Union Weekly. We're all over the Lions Tour of Australia, pre-match podcast, post-match podcast, on the whistle podcast, from all the Lions matches down under. We also have a special Lions Top 10 series with two greats of Lions rugby, Matt Dawson and Jamie Roberts.

And we've been ranking everything from icons to Controversies we've got moments tours Tries you're in the controversies Matt Top Jamie you're in the controversies too in directly not your fault It is all there two men who have been there done it and won it on a Lions tour get it now Lions top tens on Rugby in a weekly on BBC sounds