Football Daily - Scotland disappointed despite edging towards World Cup

Episode Date: October 12, 2025

Pien Meulensteen is joined by former England defender Phil Jagielka and The Sunday Times chief football writer, Jonathan Northcroft, as Scotland take one step closer to the World Cup having beaten Belarus 2-1. On a night where Steve Clarke broke the record for managing Scotland in more games than anyone else, he says he's "possibly as disappointed as I have been over the whole 72" games.With six points in October, Scotland have got their job done in terms of World Cup qualifying- but why were supporters booing their team off at Hampden? The panel look ahead to England's World Cup qualifier against Latvia. Has Thomas Tuchel got squad selection right? How similar will the England squad look next summer?In domestic football news, what does Steven Gerrard turning down the Rangers job say about the club's current position?Time codes: 0'35 Scotland chat 9'28 Why was Ben Gannon-Doak so impressive?  16'26 Hear from Steve Clarke  18'09 England chat 29'00 Who makes Phil and Jonathan's England World Cup starting XI, at this moment?  31'50 Why would Gerrard not be drawn to the Rangers job?

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily podcast for me P. Moolenstein. I'm joined by former England defender Phil Jagelke and Sunday Times chief football writer Jonathan Norcoff. Good to see you both. Thank you for joining me. First of all, let's start with Scotland.

We have to say congratulations as well to Scotland, six points out of six in October. It certainly was an interesting game as well, the one that just beat Belarus 2-1. Let's start with you, Jonathan. First of all, how did you see the game? because there was lots of things happening in that one tonight. Yeah, I think I aged another 10 years watching that match. Look, it should have been a really straightforward task for Scotland. You know, we came in on such a high after the way the Greece game finished,

Belarus, I don't know, ranked 100th in the world or something like that. You know, lost the last 10 qualifiers. All set up for a really, to almost celebrate a game at Hamden Park. And of course, that's just not how Scotland don't do straightforward. It was pretty grim. I think what Scotland can't do and haven't been able to do for years is really play champion football

and put teams like that away. It was always going to be a bit of a struggle, but my goodness, it was way more of a struggle than even I thought it was going to be. And after scoring a really good early goal through Shea Adams, it just started to go flat. Didn't kind of pass a ball very well,

didn't get behind them. And you could see Belarus thinking, wait a minute, we're not getting hammered here. They threw in another striker, scored a goal, which, thanks to VAR, was ruled out, but probably shouldn't have been. And then, you know, we've got a second goal and then ended up conceding, and you have that ridiculous sort of last five minutes of hanging on against Belarus with a kind of whole mix of emotions. And this was Scotland, you know, this should have been a great day and this was Scotland sort of doing it the hard way as usual. The results will that counts. Well, that's it, isn't it? It's the fact that they needed those points and they've got them,

which puts them in a really good position, Jags. I know you were watching the game as well. For you, how did you find it? Well, I've got a lot of Scottish mates, so I couldn't lose by watching the game tonight. So if they got beat, it would have been a bit of a mockery. But no, I think Jonathan said every Scottish fan that, for no apparent reason,

that's really edgy and nervous. And he could tell that was the same with the team. You know, it was all about getting the three points, regardless of what the performance was like. Obviously, it'd have been nice to have strolled to a 3-4-0 victory and everyone would have enjoyed the nights. But as it was, it's an international football.

Belarus came with nothing to lose. And Scotland gave me a little bit of impetus, obviously, by being that nervous and a little bit edgy. But again, two fantastic results, you know. I'll be speaking to all my Scottish mates now and they'll be absolutely buzzing. They've obviously won probably one slash two really good results away from qualifying,

obviously for where they need to be so I'm sure as much as you are probably watching it from behind the pillow or whatever tonight you'll be absolutely delighted. Yeah, they are Scotland on the hunt for their first appearance at a World Cup since 1998

and this does mean they are that one step closer. We are recording before full-time in the later kick-off. So if Greece lose to Denmark that would guarantee Scotland a World Cup playoff place. Just in terms of what that would mean, Jonathan, for Scotland,

I can tell, of course, there are still nerves and frustration with the way the performances are happening at the moment. But in terms of if Scotland get themselves to a World Cup next year, what would that be like? Oh, I mean, look, performances wouldn't matter. Any way we can get there, we'll take it. And the bigger picture, yeah, it's Steve Clark. You know, he broke the record today for the most sort of games as a Scotland manager. And what a job he's done when you think before he was manager, we were losing the people like Kazakhstan. And now getting used to qualifying for tournaments, again, two euros in a row.

The World Cup means so much to Scottish people. You know, there was a time when I was younger that I think Scotland got to five World Cup's in a row. And it's part of our kind of folklore. and to have been away from it since 1998, I mean, it would just be the biggest thing. You know, for a whole generation, I think the support would be incredible in the US. Getting into the playoff,

because we've done well in recent years, in qualifiers, I think we'd be seated, get a home game in the semifinals against someone like Slovakia, Slovenia, and then a final. So you can't ask for more than that, you know, to expect as well as champion football. a bit too much.

I've got to read out a quote that we've just seen from Scott McTominee as well about the manager, Jaggs. Interested to know your thoughts on this too is Scott Montanay says, we know we've got such a great team spirit. The manager had every right not to be happy at half time.

We just want to repay him. He's such a fantastic manager and we want to get to a major tournament. How important is it when you have a manager that is so loved by the players as well to get you through to those major finals? It's massively key.

I think obviously when things are going well, you're winning games, you know, things can be really, really simple. But as Jonathan's alluded to, it's been a tough watch for Scottish fans over the course the last couple of decades. So there's quite a lot of scar tissue there. When you've got a manager who takes things in his stride, he's never seems too flustered. I think he obviously answers the questions quite honestly, whether it's good, bad or indifferent. So I think, again, he's building a squad, not only just a team, obviously it goes out of there today, but a whole squad that are proud to play for Scotland. and are desperate to try and, as we said, make history and break that voodoo of obviously not qualifying for a World Cup for so long.

And you can see it. They're, as much too edgy, they're all together after the game. They're all absolutely buzzing because they've given themselves such a fantastic opportunity, not only to potentially finish second, you know, if a couple of decisions go, right, you know, they'll finish top of the group and I'm sure there'll be a few parties up in Scotland. It will be exciting to see. You mentioned it, Jonathan. It was history for Steve Clark today.

He's now led Scotland in more games than any other manager, 72 matches. What would Scotland fans say about his time in charge up to this point? There's a lot of love for Steve Clark. The last few months, maybe even since Euro 2024, which was disappointing in performances. Maybe the mood has changed a little bit. He frustrates you sometimes with going down the negative route.

Even in tonight's game, his first substitutions were in the 70th minute. and it was two defenders coming on against Belarus. But he's just got, as Jack said, he's got this steadiness about him, this personality about him that I think it is kind of lovable, really. He's just that sort of steady eddy. And what you look at is what the players think of him. You can see the spirit.

You can see them playing for him. In fairness, he's managed to evolve things a little bit. Ben Gannon Doak was sensational tonight. actually. And Lennon Miller came on as a really exciting young midfielder. So he is actually, which, you know, the critics would say he doesn't change. Well, he is starting to evolve the team a little bit. I think he's out of contract after the World Cup.

And what a send-off it would be for him, what a body of work if he finished in America next year. Let's talk a little bit about the game that we've just watched, the two-on victory for Scotland over Belarus. Because there was a couple of decisions by VAR. intervene. The first goal obviously that was given Chey Adams goal originally was disallowed but then after the check was then allowed. Then of course we had

a goal for Belarus which was choked off for a foul on McTominee. Then Shea Adams had another disallowed goal. Looked like the ball went off his arm. What is going on, Jags, with all of these goals? It's just modern football isn't it? You know, it's do you like it? Do you love it? Do you hate it? Again, obviously everyone who's in Scotland

will be absolutely loving the decisions tonight because you know most of them sort of helped him out but you know flip it around it'd be so infuriating but that's just modern football that's just what you've got to deal with now unfortunately when you score a goal you can't really celebrate until you've sort of had the double whistle that the point to the centre circle and and off you go it is frustrating for me as a purist you know you used to look across to the linesman and if his flag wasn't up and you'd scored a goal that that meant it was in but you know that's just modern football I think um small margins small interpretations

can make a lot of difference, but again, going back to everyone up north, they'll be okay with the way the decisions have gone tonight and not care. But I'm sure, you know, we go back to, what was it, Honoury against Ireland, I'm sure if VIII was involved back then, all the Irish fans were loved it. So, you know, it's a difficult one to take. You've just got to go with it now. It's going to be here for a long, long time, and you've got to go with it. But for me, I also like the people that have paid to make decisions to make the main ones.

Well, they certainly got the job done tonight, Scotland. You mentioned a player there that you were really impressed with, Ben, Gunn and Doak. Why was he so impressive tonight? He's electric. I mean, he's just got what's got and don't have anywhere else, really, which is proper pace. But also, his footworks, just brilliant. I mean, he wasn't against the best left back in the world, but he absolutely had him on toast. And it's, you know, he got behind Belarus again and again.

He's still young, so his final ball isn't quite there yet. But, I mean, I remember, I'm not making the comparison, right, but I remember the young Ronaldo would get beyond this fullback all the time. And then the decision making came later. And I think that's the nature of that type of player. But it's so exciting from a Scottish perspective to have someone that can beat a man at will that's got pace that gets behind. Don't forget, he's at Bournemouth now.

You know, got the move from Liverpool. He's in a really good place to develop. He hasn't quite got a starting place yet. but that gives him a platform at sort of 19 to really sort of kick on. And he can, yeah, I thought, you know, he's got it in him. He's got that kind of top class potential. Not many of them come around for us. As I say, just needs to just needs the final pass.

And then, my goodness, what, you know, what an impact you'd be having. We've got a quote here from someone that texted into the BBC Sport Live page. We were having a little look as the game was going on. And occasionally they will put up, some comments from some people that have been watching it. Scott had texted into the BBC Sport Live page to say that it was an appalling spectacle

if we qualify every other nation we'll be praying that they draw Scotland. Is that fair, Jags, to say that after that? Not at all. I think unless you've been in the situation that obviously all the Scottish players and the Scottish team were in, you can't expect that obviously

everyone wants to go out and play the best football and win games, but realistically it was all about doing a job. as Jonathan said the squad itself is actually looking healthier so even like month by month let alone sort of season by season the people are coming in yeah if you want to look at it super negatively yeah but why why would you bother you're top of the table you've had two fantastic results realistically

who cares do you know let's get qualified then we'll answer all those questions yeah do you want to play fantastic football and not qualify if you do you're not my type of person because it's all about results for me and we knew that was what the game was about tonight. Scotland defender, Scott McKenna, had said afterwards, I think performance-wise, we let ourselves down tonight. The only positive we can take is that we score two goals and managed to get three points.

We didn't win any first balls. We didn't win any second balls either. Belarus probably looked more dangerous than us over the 90 minutes, which you can understand for the players that they're going to look back, Jonathan, and reflect on their performances. And of course, there will be things that they want to improve on as well. But do you take what Jackson is saying,

that you have to look positively at what Scotland are doing and they are doing a great job of it at the moment getting the results that they need. Yeah, without a doubt, look, we're in Dreamland in some ways from a Scottish perspective because before Steve Clark, you know, if you'd said you'll get to one tournament, anyone would have taken it. So we are being a bit greedy now on the performances as well.

I think you've seen England play recently against the smaller nations and actually not look that good and look better against teams that come out and play. So I do think it's part of the kind of dynamic as well. It might have seated Scotland to be playing a slightly better team. We're not great when we have to make the game against someone. There was nerves, you know, as Scott McKenna said,

there was a sort of freedom about Belarus, not just with the ball, but they were going in and, you know, flying in and winning a lot of 50-50s. And Scotland were just tentative because of the stakes involved. I'm with Jags, I don't really care about the performance. I think the game would have changed. If Belarus would have scored first, I think then you've got to ask the question at the Scotland squad,

wherever they can come back, start playing more attractive football, start opening things up. But as the game went, they didn't particularly need to. They got themselves in a pole position. Why, when you're in pole position, would you start trying to get course laps,

records? You wouldn't, would you? That's just the nature of the beach. The fact of the matter was, they needed a win, they got one nil up, they got two in a look. Okay, they'd have preferred not to.

conceded, but the fact of the matter was, it was game set match, job done, onto the next one. And Steve, Steve Clark's, like, you know, he's lost two qualifiers in 20, which is some record. And that was against Spain away and Denmark away. So he kind of knows what he's doing in terms of getting the job done. As you say, Jags, if that means maybe not going for it when you're 1-0 up against Belarus, the crowd might want to see something different, but he does, he does know how to get there. How far do you think they can go, Jags, Scotland? As far as getting to the tournament or if they get to the tournament,

which question are we asking? Well, they look like they're in a pretty good position to get to the tournament, so let's say in the tournament. Well, again, it's a tough place to us to go. We've seen the Club World Cup in the summer. It's not probably going to suit a lot of our types of football. You know, it's both England, Scotland or Wales, whatever, get there because the temperature is going to be a bit crazy.

but again it's a building brock obviously the last time they struggled they didn't obviously get the the best group and it was it was a tough run for them but the honest answer is i've got no idea so much so much can't between now and then again if they get the right team at the right place at the right temperature and the right grass and the right ball i'm just trying to make a excuse as possible you're just sitting on the fence and they're going to struggle regardless regardless are going to struggle. It is, you know, if you are Scotsman and you think you're going to go and win the World Cup

or go and put a bet on, you'll get really good odds. But realistically, it will be a struggle. But again, it's all part of getting there. Well, the Scottish people enjoy, obviously, going over there. And hopefully they can win a game or two and potentially get through the group stage. But realistically, it's going to be tough. Jonathan, Scotland, get past the group stages, do you think?

Oh, my goodness. Well, I think we've had 12. You've got to say, yeah. I'm not tempting anything. Yeah, look, I think 12 tournaments, 12 group stage exits found a lot of weird ways to not get through a group. We've got a statistician at the Times who worked out the odds of that happening to any team

a 20,000 to one. So Scotland have managed to pull off a 20,000 to one shot in never getting through a group at a tournament. Record breakers. Yeah, exactly. That can't go on. forever, surely. Surely in my lifetime. Okay. So yeah, yeah, second round.

Okay. We'll love to see it. We'll see what happens hopefully in a couple of months' time next year when the World Cup happens. Let's hear, though, from the Scotland boss, Steve Clark, after their win against Belarus. Really disappointed. Really, really disappointed. Possibly as disappointed as I've been over the whole 72 games. We just didn't turn up. But before I go down that route and you start to ask me questions about why I'm feeling like that,

it is also to point out that I said the other night that performances don't get your qualification. And tonight was certainly not a performance, but we've got three points. We've got six points for the double header. But the performance tonight was way below par. Tonight we get the win, but I'm disappointed in the team performance as their head coach. And the many times I've sat here. and I've told you how good they are and what a great group of lads

they are and they are so that doesn't change but it doesn't mean to say that as their head coach sometimes I can't be disappointed in them I've told them that in the dressing room so they know what my feelings are but I've got a great faith in them

I trust them absolutely and I know that next month they'll be a different animal they'll be a different animal Five Live Sports And what a game of football It is to kickstart this new WSL season

That's the only goal And she is able to just pick her sport Curls this way past the best goalkeeper in the division BBC Women's Football Weekly The latest news, insights and analysis From across the women's game Lucy Bruns, welcome back What one lioness do you think would make the best

Happy player. Me? Listen. With the BBC Sounds app. This is the Football Daily podcast from Five Life Sports. Okay, England are just one win away from securing their spot at next summer's World Cup. Their next game comes on Tuesday, that is, against Latvia. England have won all five of their group stage game so far without conceding a single goal. And yet, Jags, it doesn't feel like Thomas Tuchel has really received.

that much praise? Yeah, again, it's tough. It's a tough job to take, obviously, England job. You expect to win. Expects to win by a lot of goals as well, but no goals conceded, maximum points. Again, job done. Just unfortunately, a couple of the games

we'd probably say England have slightly underachieved, but one thing he has done, he's picked the players he wants to and caused, obviously, competition for places between now and obviously the World Cup. They still have two more, qualifying games after Tuesday, Jonathan. They're against Serbia and Albania.

What do you think will be considered as a successful campaign then for England? Oh, I think it's now about performances actually because England are going to get there. England could get there actually without conceding a goal and that would be, you know, that would be

achieving that any other country would be celebrating, but I think that the standards are, the demands are really high for England. They always are in terms of us in the press and and the fans I just think the performances in the last two games

against Serbia away and Wales in the friendly on Thursday were so good that if England can keep those going they will qualify but if they can keep

those going then this campaign will be a huge success because it's been about building from a you know it's his first campaign and to go from

the starting point to the performances we've seen in the last two games just to keep them up I think that'd be really successful. Well, you mentioned that last resort against Wales 3-0 victory back in Thursday.

During that game, Jags, Thomas Tuchel actually said that the Wembley crowd were perhaps a little bit too quiet. Yeah, I won't say it was nothing new, but it's always difficult. We go 3-0 up. The game's been pretty much put to bed. I presume Wales's plan was potentially not to concede more rather than actually to try and get back in the game.

again international football it becomes it becomes tough again we got a team that potentially wanted to come at ours and try and make a game of it but then quickly realized after making a couple of mistakes that they were out of the game and it went back to the good old games where people sit ten them behind the ball

and it's a case of break us down so as we said we need to still probably find a way of being slightly better when teams come at us and say look we're not going to potentially try and win the game a draws more than obviously a respectable result and I wouldn't say we were amazing at it to be perfectly honest but again we're 3-0 up so do you really need to be amazing at it again like why would you take ridiculous chances when you win in the

game 3-0 so as much the first half was good and i thought the the boys that were chosen did a fantastic um fantastic job that the second half was pretty much you know just sort of playing out time and on to the next. Jonathan, we know that England over the years have had lots of world-class individual players and I suppose one of the talking points

is how do you get world-class individual players to really gel as a team. Do you think that Thomas Tuchel has got that with this England team? Well, his answer seems to be to leave them out and then that's how you solve the problem

of having to any world-class players. But, no, I think it's coming. I've really enjoyed what he's done in the last couple of camps and I'm sure we'll sort of mention Jude Bellion, but I like the standpoint that it's about the team first, it's about building patterns,

it's about building bonds off the pitch, and this squad was about rewarding the guys that did so well for him in Serbia. And the thing that has excited me about England in the last two games is they have looked like a club team, there has been an understanding between players there have been partnerships on the pitch they've been pressing as a unit

they've been moving off the ball for each other and this I haven't seen that much of this from England in the last few years I've seen lots of brilliant moments really talented footballers but that cohesion that sort of that unity

those sort of patterns as I say that that's something I think that's come in the last couple of games and it's been done without some of the star players. So I just like that I feel Tuchos tried to reconfigure England, realign England in the last while and try and put those values first. And then you see if you can build the stars back into the design.

But, you know, if you can beat Serbia 5-0 away from home without superstars, if you can then go and score three goals in 20 minutes without Harry Kane, it does say something that, you know, the team is the most important. thing and that shouldn't be rocket science but sometimes it seems to be an international football because I think we, in international football

we think it should always be about superstars because we've got this idea that an international team has to be the best 11 players in a country and no, it's a football team it's got to be a football team that works together and that's where England had been in the last couple of games. Jags, could you see a World Cup team, an England

World Cup team without the likes of Odin or Bellingham? If you'd have asked me probably three or four months ago no chance. But I think what Jonathan said, I think if you play five international games in the space of two months

or a month, as it is at club football, whoever plays the best keeps his position and stays in the team and even if someone's injured, suspended or whatever, sometimes they don't get back in it.

Obviously there's certain teams where there's plays that are unjoppable, but like you say, Thomas Tuchel, almost coming across and saying, well, this is the people I had to choose on last time. They've done really well. So realistically,

how do I not play them they're fit, they're available they've been playing well for the club why on earth would I not play them because that's normally what happens in club football international-wise it's normally like I said it's five or six players that

no matter how their form is or whatever their first names in the team sheet and normally you shuffle a couple of people in and around them so he's put a massive marker down I still think obviously some of these players will be involved for the World Cup squad.

Some of these players will start our first World Cup game, but it's such a nice place to be that you can basically say to them, well, only if you perform at your top level you've got any sniff of getting back in here. Hopefully for England, that means we're going to get

the best versions of Jude Bellingham's, Phil Foden, Jack Grealish's, whoever you want to say is being left out. Rather than I'm not saying on a purpose, they don't choose to play the best, but a very relaxed. Phil Foward and very relaxed. Jude Bellingham, very relaxed, Greelish, we're going to get people

are thinking, oh, oh, I need the best version of me. On some of the players that have been left out, Adam Wharton is another one that's a pretty big talking point. I mean, Jonathan, what more can he do at Crystal Palace to sort of win another call up to the England squad? No, I think Wharton is a really special player, and he would have had more caps, but for injuries. I mean, he's been a bit unfortunate.

he's too cool a year ago was when he came in I think was probably Adam Wharton sceptic it's fair to say because he likes that athletic profile of a midfield like a Declan Rice and had doubts I think about Wharton's just his dynamism but he has won Tuckold over he has wanted

to get him in the squad before now and I think he would have been in this one had England not had that great victory in Serbia and he decided to keep those guys together. Look, I think Jag said it really well there that he's got himself in a nice position now, Tuchel, where to get into the team, whoever it is, whether it's Adam Wharton, whether it's Greelish,

whether it's Bellum, you actually know you have to play really well. You don't get in because of your name. So the challenge is there. I think the difficulty for Adam Wharton all of a sudden is that Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice are looking so good together sometimes things just click and those two seem to click

and Tuchel's already speaking about those two as a kind of an anchoring point so I think it would be quite hard for Wharton to get into the starting level at the starting lineup in ahead of those two no matter what he does

but I mean he's such a special town and he's been playing so well that surely he gets in the squad another player Jaggs is Jack Grealish who you mentioned and I'm sure you will have been keeping a close eye especially now that he's at Everton and seems to have really sort of reignited how you know the days of Jack Grealish

that we were so used to seeing and he's been playing fantastically well so are you expecting him to be going to the World Cup I wouldn't I wouldn't say I'm expecting to go to World Cup I'm expecting him if he continues used to enjoy his football to play his best football because that is what Jack Grealish does.

I think he knows he's a starter for Everton. He knows he's one of the main players there. He's enjoyed the reception he's got. He's basically given a new release of life back at Everton. I think if you asked him himself, he would have no idea whether he's going to get back in England squad or not. But I don't think that matters at the moment.

I think that matters to Jack is playing football, assisting, playing well, scoring goals. and if England come knocking again, of course he'll be absolutely delighted. But he's not daft as well. He knows that left side especially. You know, was an open side, probably the last time he went to the Euros. But now obviously you've got Gordon, you got Rashford, who's found some form in Barcelona. And you've got other players that would happily go out and play out on the left now just to make the squad.

You know, so it's a tough position. But again, I think Jack's first and foremost, play well, keep enjoying football. and it will be a problem for Tuchel not to pick him but he's more than happy if he's managing not to pick people he doesn't see part of his plans. Okay, I'm going to put a problem for both of you now because if the World Cup started tomorrow,

what is England starting 11? Jonathan, I'll let you go first with this one. Yes, look, if it literally was tomorrow, I actually wouldn't be changing too much from what we've seen in the last couple the games. I think I, you know, Pickford's a really obvious one, you know, just beating another Gordon Banks record. What a play he's been for England. I think you go James, Stones and Gahey. Left back's a bit tricky, but I think Livremento is probably gets in because I think you want

to try and play Gordon on the left as well, because of how well he's done. And he likes a club partnership. So I think that's your back for. Rice and Anderson, as I've said, Saka Kane and Gordon up front and the big question's number 10 isn't it? But look, I think right now, as it stands, I think you have to pick Morgan Rogers. I think the challenge is there for Jude Bellingham.

That's the profile of number 10 that Tuchel wants now. That's what Morgan Rogers has done in the last couple of games, which has been to really put in a shift for the team and link particularly with the striker and play quite simple. That's what Bellingham's got to do to get in.

I think he's got the biggest ceiling of all the players. But, right now I pick Rogers in six months' time don't know but right now why would you change the team that's playing so well Jags put your manager's hat on go on give us to start a line up

I'd change the team just to be controversial I think I say that obviously the goalkeeper pick third we go James probably go Stone'sy then Gayhee I'm not a massive fan of playing a right-footed left back I get where you're coming from

if you're playing Gordon ahead of him I'm even though he's not playing for his oh no do I put Louis Skelly in I'm going to go Louis Skelly I'm going to go with it tomorrow I'm playing a left I'm playing left for a left back we'll go Skelly I'm obviously going to Saka

Rice Anderson I'm putting Bellingham in I'm sorry you're playing him with Kane if you're playing Walkins up top then maybe as you talk about connections again maybe I I don't play Bellingham at the moment

but obviously I think the Watkins the villa combination works there left side do I go Gordon see I've got half nightmares about playing against the Rashford when he was absolutely on flames at Manu so that keeps coming back into the back of my mind as well

let's start with Gordon and obviously Kane up top so pretty similar but again I would prefer a left-footed left back so that's why I'm going to go with Lewis Skelly instead and obviously I've got me in Bellingham because I'm a big scared of cat. Okay, I like the passion from both of you.

Let's move on, though, to this weekend's domestic football news. And Jonathan, I'm pretty sure you would have been all over this story the last couple of weeks because it's been all over the news. Recently, though, we've just seen Stephen Gerrard's turned down the opportunity to return to Rangers as head coach. What does this tell us about where the club is at the moment? Yeah, I mean, the short answer is it's a messy situation because of how angry the fans were about Russell Martin

and then how much those same fans wanted Stephen Gerard. So they're going to have to go in a different direction and they're going to have to appease a lot of the fan base. But it's sobering for Rangers because, you know, having lived and worked up there and from their ranges in Celtic do see themselves for better or worse as among the big clubs of Europe

because Glasgow is such a passionate football city they have great histories and they do expect that big names will want to come and play for them and manage them and ultimately they've been turned down by Stephen Gerard which is a bitter blow for them

if you take passion away from it and just look at the finances. You know, Rangers' budgets kind of about the same as a top championship club and no more. The TV money is not big in Scotland. Highest wage is about $40,000 a week for a player. So actually, if you take the name away, it's maybe not a surprise that they're struggling to attract

a Premier League profile manager and they might have to look at candidates that are more championship, which is probably where they are. But it's been such a messy season for them so far under new ownership, but there's just a lot of anger and passion up there at the moment. And it just always comes down to results, isn't it? Whoever comes in needs to go and win and get those fans happy again.

Jaggs, what type of character do you think needs to be appointed for the fans to accept them? Rangers it's a massive club up there obviously I said the two teams are absolutely huge the worst thing is realistically the league season's over you know the start of had

it's you can't see Celtic dropping that many points I know we're only in October and things but you're basically the league's over so they're just going to have to take the time you know do they go short-term fix where they try and get someone that's going to keep them

sort of or should say make them climb the league table keep them in New York do whatever they need to do or did they try and they were supposed of a project with Russell Martin but obviously the project didn't last much more than a couple of months so I'm not sure what direction

are going to. Do they ask the fans because the fans will voice their opinion one way or the other or do they just decide so what direction are going? You know, Sean Dyches has been mentioned which would be a totally different obviously option to obviously Russell Martin they've had

but again he would bring stability but how that is long term or whatever. Who knows? So I honestly thought Stevie would take it. I thought he'd have a great opportunity to reignite his managerial career. But for him not to have taken it, there must be something that I'm not seeing

or other people aren't seeing that's made him decide that it's not in a place for him. Jonathan, how soon do you think that this will be sorted with Rangers getting a new head coach in? Yeah, I think it'll happen in the next couple of days. they do have a couple of candidates. I think, you know,

Danny Rawl is among the front runners, and I think he may now be the one they're looking at. I actually think that the idea of a project manager of trying to do something different, I get why they're doing that, because Celtic have got a lot of more money than Rangers at the moment, so maybe they have to build from a different base. I just think, I don't think that idea is the wrong one,

I just think Russell Martin was such an appalling fit. not just because of I guess his character didn't fit with Rangers fans but the type of football he plays they don't want you know as I'd say up the road

tippy tapy football Rangers are a bit like an Everton fan base they want intensity they want passion they want the ball to go forward quite quickly they want aggression

and actually if you look at someone like Roel he comes from the sort of Red Bull Klop school of German football he's very young he doesn't have a lot of experience so that's an issue

and Rangers is such a big club to handle but in football terms I think he might be a much better fit someone like Sean Dice would have been quite a good fit but I think he may have other ideas so it's more just I think it's getting somebody

that actually speaks to what the club needs on the pitch which he didn't do with Russell Martin and they have to get this one right in terms of yeah not just a project, but it's given the fans what they want. I think Role would make sense.

I honestly do. So Sean Deich mentioned there, linked with the Rangers job, but he's already been spoken about as well as a potential successor to Ange Poster Coglu at Nottingham Forest, Jags. I mean, the whole conversation about replacing Angchposter Coglu already,

is that too soon? It's insane. Whether it's too soon, you know, I've not been a Nottingham Forest fan. I'm not an argument for his fan, but I think you understand the ride and the rollercoast and the journey you've been over the course the last couple of years.

I think it's massively too soon, but again, results dictate how much time you're getting a job. You know, unfortunately for him, he's come in, he's not managed to get a victory. It's, you know, the fans actually love Nuno before he left, even though he had a bit of an argument with the owner. You know, normally when you get a job, but the fans hate the previous managers

so it gives you a couple of weeks just to get over that but that wasn't the case at Forrest so yeah he's in a tough spot realistically now Forest are going to have to take a step back and ask where they realistically expect

to finish in the Premier League and it won't be hanging around the top four potentially finishing in 6th or 8th whatever they did last year realistically if Forrest stay up and are in no trouble this season whilst playing

or whatever in Europe and that's a pretty successful season, but I'm sure most of his fans will agree, and I 100% guarantee the owner will definitely not agree with that as a statement. So if he got sacked in the next week or two, would I

come on here and say I'm the most surprised person in the world? No. Do I think it's the right thing? Possibly not, but I don't put my money into buying clubs, thankfully, and I don't own a couple and I don't make the decisions like obviously the forest guy does. Jonathan, I spoke to Antipos to Gogh,

after they after Nostokin and Farras lost at Newcastle in their last game and he was mentioning that he's not afraid of a fight like he understands that obviously it's a difficult situation

that they're in at the moment and of course he would have wanted the results to reflect the performances but do you think it's fair that fans and people are already discussing him leaving the club at this point? Not at all no

I mean he's won a European trophy in the summer and with a club but that doesn't win. And now he's seven games into a rain at Forest where, you know, he needs time to change the way they play. You know, that was clear when he came in. And surely they knew that when they appointed him.

You know, it's not a mystery how Ange wants to play. Surely, actually the reason for getting him is because you want to change the style of football. So to expect it to click straight away is quite unreasonable. But as Jaggs alluded to, his big problem is he's not Nuno. His big problem is coming in with a fan base that's angry that the last guy has gone. And that's, you know, perhaps he's been too much of a fighter. Perhaps he's been too brave in taking this job and too keen to get back into it because it does seem to me he gave him, he's given himself a really difficult task from the off.

performances haven't you know haven't been terrible they've lost games I think they've lost a couple of games late on but it shows where we are in football that that that doesn't count for anything

you know we're on fast forward and so quickly it's come to this forum and I think the next game's Chelsea it's it's difficult isn't it it's difficult to see him I think it's difficult to see him surviving and I think it's mad mad saying that but that's where we seem to be.

Okay, Jonathan, Jags, thank you so much for joining me. That's all we've got time for for this episode of the Football Daily podcast. Next on the Football Daily, Steve Crossman, we'll be joined by Brentford Sports Psychologist Michael Caulfield. Thank you very much for listening. Welcome to the brand new podcast series Rugby League Top Ten with me, Mark Chapman. It's where John Wilkins, Brian Noble and Jayne, Jamie Peacock will discuss, debate and argue over lists

at the best players, games, finals, iconic moments and plenty of other categories that will no doubt leave you screaming at your device. It must entertaining parts of the last sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool. Yeah, I mean, that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is.

Yeah, no. I think we've all managed to carry that battle. Rugby League top 10. Listen on BBC Sounds.