Football Daily - TCV: La Manita, handclasps & the moose head

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball discuss life as football commentators. From the handshake/handclasp debate to looking ahead to the Manchester derby. Will Ian’s losing streak in Clash of the Commentators continue? What will be the Unintended Pub Name of the Week, and which terms and phrases will be added to the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? Messages and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]01:15 Ian back from Portugal, 04:20 Handshakes or hand clasps? 09:00 Arsenal’s strong start continues, 11:05 How the weekend looks on 5 Live, 16:25 Will Enzo Maresca rotate? 19:45 Craziest local derbies… 26:15 Best terms for 5/6 goals? 32:40 Clash of the Commentators, 44:25 Unintended Pub Name of the Week, 49:30 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Liverpool v Fulham, Sat 1500 Chelsea v Hull City on Sports Extra 2, Sat 1730 Spurs v Everton, Sun 1400 Coventry v Brighton & Hove, Sun 1630 Man Utd v Man City.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE 50p head Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Backside and elbows, The Beautiful Game, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Caretaker manager, Channel of joy, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head like a biscuit tin, Head like a sheriff’s badge, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Lollipop, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Parachute payment, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Postage stamp, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Taking it to the corner flag, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep, You could have two goalkeepers in there and they still wouldn’t have saved it.

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John Murray. and Ian Dennis. Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm John Murray, and this is the commentator's view where we five-life commentators talk about the football, the adventures it takes us on, and the words we use to describe the beautiful game.

And full house again this week, Ian Dennis, and Alastair Bruce Ball. Nice to see you. Good morning, John. This feels like... You're supposed to say you're nice. Yeah, following on from last week's episode, I've missed my...

You were supposed to say it together. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Let's do that again. Nice to see you. To see you nice. To see you.

Nice. Nice. It feels, John, it feels like a manager at the start of the Premier League season with the lineup so far on the commentator's view. Just not making any changes yet. You know, feels like the season has started okay. Let's not tinker with it. Lots of competitions, lots of football, lots of pods to come. But for now, they're just settling in and they seem to be linking up okay.

even though the Champions League's begun now. Because generally that's where the changes start, isn't it? That's right. Which you two have been involved in, Ian, just back from Portugal. Yes, the Estadio de Dragau to see Manchester City beat Porto by two goals to nil. Hadn't been there for seven years. And very impressive stadium brought back memories of... Actually, I had a couple of flashbacks to Euro 2004,

because that was the first city that I visited during that tour. And it was also the first time that I'd ever driven abroad. I'd never driven abroad before I went to Porto. And as you know, we had a few... Were you 18 at the time back in 2004? Well, I can't think now. I remember I was 44 in 2019. So what does that maybe in 2004?

Yeah. I was just saying to Ali there before we started, there's not really much of a narrative at this stage, is there in the Champions League. and all the English sides got off to winning starts. So I said to Enzo Moreska that, because obviously Manchester City have been the highest spenders in the Premier League, the Premier League with all their riches will be the envy of Europe.

And I just said, you know, what are your expectations? And he didn't really give me a worthwhile answer. He answered it better when a Portuguese journalist asked him a similar question. Because I said about the pressure, does it bring you a certain amount of pressure? said it's not a pressure, it's a privilege. Be right, Ian. The amount of money that the Premier League clubs spend, and I think when you look at the spending, I mean, all 20 are right up there, aren't they, in terms of all of the

clubs across Europe? And I think that translates itself into the Champions League, certainly in the league phase. And that is why they're so powerful. And my feeling is, when it gets more difficult later in the season, I do think that that is part of the fact that they are then up against the other super clubs, but also I think that's where the intensity of the Premier League does kick in a little bit there, which is why I think they've not been as successful in terms of winning the trophy as you might expect, yeah? Manchester City, though, I looked at the odds. Manchester City, before the tournament started, were, I think, five or sixth on the betting list.

They were about 10 to 1. So they're not one of the favourites. Arsenal are up there with Paris Saint-German, but Manchester City are not. regarded as one of the top two or three in the betting market at least if that gives you a gauge. Yeah. So what our army now of young listeners to the commentators view should take for that is don't bet, keep your money in your pockets. There were big wins, weren't there though for the big clubs. I mean, I was sort of flicking across Thursday nights some of the action because Manchester United were leading very comfortably. And some of the goals, the latter goals that

Byrne Munich scored against our friends Berta Glimt. They were some of the best goals you're going to see in the competition. Elisei is an incredible footballer, isn't he? Just a joy to watch. I got a message from my friend Marius from Buda, who was there in the Alliancerina, and he sent me a one-word message, which was brutal. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, John, so here's something, and this actually links to the, because you weren't in Champions League.

You actually did get a rest midweek. You didn't get a Champions League runout, so you're, you're fresh for the pod today but something i noticed uh on sunday which i really enjoyed was your description of the pre-match formalities ahead of the arsenal chelsea game yes the players as they tend to these days as they walk along the line clasping hands rather than shaking hands shaking hands seems to be a thing of the past now isn't it so the clasping is the more of a high-fiving yeah that sort of yeah yeah yeah so that's what they're doing. Fist bump soon, John. No, we're not there yet.

That's for defence. That's for central defender. So I thought, John, I thought that was really well observed because it got me thinking about the handshake in professional sport and is it almost obsolete now? I mean, for example, when the two captains shook hands,

did they shake hands or did they clasp as you described it? But then what really made me laugh, watching Alfonso Davis score for Bayern Munich in the Champions League last night is his celebration, his three of his teammates, was a very formal handshake. But it was almost tongue-in-cheek, you know, sort of like 1950s England cricketers shaking hands after a wicket. So that's obviously his thing, or it was a thing on the night.

But the handshake in professional sport has almost disappeared. Yeah. Even the referees, the officials clasped hands rather than actually shake hands. I mean, do we like it? Do we not like it? It sounds quite old-fashioned of me not to like it, but I was thinking, so I was trying to think in which arena do we always have the handshake. And it made me think of test cricket captains. I'm sure they don't clasp.

I'm sure you have a proper handshake after the, you know, the coin toss at every test match. But maybe, maybe not. Tennis is very clasped hands, isn't it, over the net? End of a snooker match would be a handshake, would it? Or would not necessarily? That would be a handshake. Darts? Darts are handshake?

Is it? I don't know. I'm asking the question. I've never really paid too much attention to it until he brought it up. Anyway, there we are. You haven't said much about Anfield, though, on Wednesday. So to Ian's point on narrative, that was one of the sort of biggest matchups, I think, of the first week of the Champions League. We had Real Madrid into Milan, didn't we on Tuesday night. But Liverpool, Athletico, given their standing and their recent history, actually, in terms of matches they played against each other, gave that a bit of heft. and I think Andonia Iola's first game in Europe as Liverpool boss also gave us something to sort of peg onto it. Then the fact, obviously, that Athletico Madrid went ahead. So Liverpool had a little bit of work to do to come back. But actually, again, sort of showing the strength and the power of the Premier League. Good story with the Alexis McAllister goal, because obviously the day before, he'd been promoting the fact that he'd not been offered a new contract like some of his teammates.

So the strike was very impressive. And then the celebration, I thought, was quite demonstrative in sort of making his, point. But after that, Atlatico sort of faded, really. They didn't really offer quite the threat. I thought they might to Liverpool. And it just did make me think of, I think we are going to go through a league phase again, where, you know, the Premier League teams will comfortably, most of them qualify, getting that top eight. But as you say, John, you know, you look at Liverpool in the last two seasons. Both times they've then run into Paris Saint-Germain in the

knockout stages and Paris San Charmau have been better than them on both occasions. You were able to get, I presume Ali to Anfield quite easily there and back, whereas I did worry about you, Ian, with all of the air traffic control business going on this week, but you might still be in Portugal by now. Yeah, only a minor

delay. Fortunate, actually, that I flew through Amsterdam, so I didn't have any worries about getting the first stage of the journey from Portugal back to Amsterdam, and then I just had a minor delay. But looking at the disruption and the chaos, I would say that the entire team were extremely fortunate.

Yeah. I wonder if, did that have any knock on for the Atlatical Madrid fans then coming to to Enfield? I think you saw my friend Hugo Condez, didn't you, from Spanish Radio, who I think was sitting not too far away from you? Hugo Condes. I didn't meet Hugo Condes. Did you not, John?

No. No. He was there. He was definitely there. Oh, right. Okay. No, I didn't. I'm disappointed not to have not said hello to Hugo.

Yeah, no. he knows Athletico Madrid inside out. Michael Artes's press conference was cancelled in Naples, wasn't it, because of the flight problems? Well, there we are. Didn't put them off their stride though, did it? What a good win that was for the start to the season. I thought they were, well, A,

Arsenal Chelsea was a, there won't be too many better matches than that this season. As you said to me, Ali, at the end of the match when you were presenting Five Live Sport last weekend. But I think you're right. I don't think there'll be too many better than that. And I thought the fact that Chelsea scored that goal, the only one that they've conceded so far this season,

so early on was a bit of a right, what are you made of? And then they actually did show us what they made of, didn't they? Yeah. And I think watching that performance, John, you know, I mean, everyone's making a big deal this season about, you know, Arsenal maybe showing us a little bit more, giving us a little bit more going forward.

but it just said to me that they can do it. They've got a squad there. They can do it any which way, can't they? Whichever sort of type of game you want to draw them into, they have got the tools and the resources to cope with it. And if you're going to give them a bit of space, particularly if you're going to form Erdogard and Havert's are in at the moment, then they will relish that.

And I know everyone said it, but it is stating the obvious that if Odergarde, Havert and Saka are fully firing and fully fit, then, you know, that is a major, goal threat that they've got there, isn't it, from several different areas? When you say that that game will not be bettered or will they struggle to be bettered, the second half at Stanford Bridge in midweek wasn't too shabby between Chelsea and Leach United with eight goals of the nine scored in the second half.

It was, it was very shabby, wasn't it? It was. Oh, very good. Alonzo. Tusha. Anyway, plenty of come, and we've got some very good input as well, actually, as usual, from our listeners. Emails always welcome to TCV at bvc.co.uk or the WhatsApp for messages and voice notes

08,000 289-369. And this is how the weekend is going to shape up for us on 5 live this weekend. We've got no Friday night game or Saturday 1230 in the Premier League. So we are straight into our Saturday, three o'clock. On which note we have a voice note. Hi, TCV. Gary from Yoval here. I have a question for Ian. I was just wondering if he's down to do a Scottish League Cup game this weekend. The reason I ask is a certain band is playing Radio 2 in the park. I'm sure he's aware of this, but I just thought I'd better just double check. Love the pod. Keep up the good work.

Very on message. Ian? Well, thank you for the message, Gary. Sadly, I will not be in Sterling to see the Mighty Deacon Blue, who are taking part in Radio 2's in the park. They did that a couple of years ago in Leicester, I think, as well. But it was last year 2025 that I happened to be in Scotland. I think I had a weekend off. And Ross the boss offered me the chance then to do Celtic hearts on the Saturday. And as it turns out, I was already in Scotland because Dick and, and Blue were playing at the Usher Hall in Edinburgh the next day. So I then helped out Ross the

boss with his request. And it was a Deacon Blue double bubble. But no, sadly won't be in Sterling, but I will be listening to Radio 2 at some stage. Very good. Is the right answer. So, 3 o'clock in, Liverpool, Fulham, you and Chris Sutton. Mr. Chris Sutton, who, right? You know that we always get Gary Flintoff, the producer with the, he always seems phone, doesn't it when we're doing this podcast. predictably as well, Chris Sutton. Don't hear from him for weeks. And then hold on. Here we go.

Where's the text? He reaches out to me on Wednesday, bearing in mind that the last time he gave me some grief. It was the end of August. Hi, Denno, how are you doing? Is there a chance of taking me back to Solford Saturday after the game? If not, no worries, I'll get the train. I turn into the Sutton taxi service whenever I'm working with the at 3 o'clock. I've just realized something as well. So I've barely heard from Chris since the summer, but if he's doing Liverpool, Fullen with you at 3 and is asking for a lift back to Salford,

that's 606 live from the studio, which I'm hosting on Saturday. So I didn't realize I was going to get to see the great man in person. So that's a delight. That's a delight. You're hosting 606? Yeah, on Saturday. I didn't realize we were actually going to be together, so he can buy me a coffee. that'd be lovely. So you're hosting 606 on Saturday night and you're hosting Five Live Sport on Sunday. Yeah, that's all I do now, John, is just host. I'm just... You are a busy boy, aren't you? The host with... Well, we all are. We all are, aren't we? I don't think he can pay your coffee because he said, thanks for the lift. That's very kind. I'll pay you petrol. So you will hear Ian and Chris at Anfield Saturday afternoon, the 3 o'clock commentary. The choice of

commentary is Chelsea Hall City on Sports Extra from 3 o'clock. 5.30 on 5 Live. Tottenham against Everton, Connor McNamara and Mark Schwarzer. And late in the evening, Ali, into your 606, you'll have updates on Sunderland Arsenal, which is an 8 o'clock kickoff. And then there's the US Open Women's Final on 5 Live and I presume the men's final on Sunday night. That is correct. Yes. US Open tennis, yes. You're right, John. Women's final Saturday, men's final Sunday. And there was live golf. There was live Walker Cup golf into 606 last weekend because that came right. That was one of the best sporting events of the year. I mean, that was an incredible Sunday.

Yeah. And commentary on the Solheim Cup over the course of this weekend as well from the Netherlands. So as the presenter of five live sport on Sunday, Ali, you might as well run through what's in your program. Let's do it. Let's do it. So on air from midday, Rangers Celtic, that's updates for us. That's a Scottish League Cup quarter final. But our Premier League action, 2 o'clock, Coventry, without a win, without a goal at home to Brighton in the Premier League. Chris Coles and Sue Smith are your commentary team for that one.

And then the showpiece game Sunday afternoon is yours, John alongside Paul Robinson, who says he hasn't seen you since the World Cup final, because I was with him at handbook. Ah. But not worked alongside it. Ah. Okay, okay. You're working alongside Paul Robinson for the Manchester Derby, which I think is going to be, I mean, it's always a fascinating fixture that one, but I'm very much looking forward to that. Manchester United, Manchester City in full at 430. Yeah, and Manchester United and City could wins in the Champions League this midweek. I don't know whether it'll make any difference, will it, the fact that City went to Portugal, but they did play 48 hours early in Manchester United. And I know the Manchester.

United match having watched it, you know, that was a real, I don't want to call it a formality, a stroll, whatever, but it was probably as straightforward a win as you get in the Champions League. Yeah, I thought it was a formality in a stroll. Do you think, from Manchester City's point of view, chaps, that Enzomaresca, I'm particularly looking at midfield and then the attacking four, is going to have a regular sort of go-to for the big games lineup, or do you think he is going to mix a match? all the time. So what I'm asking is, do you think it will be for now, Enzo Fernandez and Elliot Anderson? Semenio seems to play pretty much all the games. Obviously, Harland,

Cherokee and then... Well, Doku's injured at the moment, isn't he? Doku and Jai? Or do you think, do you think just every game, a bit like... Yeah, I do. Yeah, I think with all of them, I mean, he's got an alternative, really. He'll have to, you'll have to rotate it. Yeah. Top from Harland, really. You know, you're going to, that Harlan's obviously going to play in all of the big games. And I think then it'll depend, won't it, on who's in the best form at the time. You know, that's the benefit of competition for places, I suppose, from their point of view. What is remarkable, though, and I don't know if you've started your notes yet, John,

but Phil Foden hasn't scored a goal in 2026. Amazing, that, isn't it? He's gone 34 games without a goal. But they've got so many different options, haven't they? you know, with Fernandez to play deep, play a bit further forward. And he certainly did that when Anderson came on. So he has got that ability to tweak the system. They've got the results so far, haven't they?

But not really settled yet, I would say, into how things will be under the new manager. Is that fair? Yeah. But Erling Harland was saying on his YouTube channel during the week as well, that he doesn't feel. I got told about it. I was too busy doing my prep otherwise.

With all of your social media that you've got these days, you know, I don't know how you manage it all. Do you have somebody doing it for you? No, no, I haven't gone down that road just as yet, unlike others. What's the new one that you've got? Well, I joined Instagram in the summer. And how's that going? I'll be honest with you.

I don't know what I'm doing with it. I haven't got a clue. So, and I don't. You should get somebody to manage it. for you. Yeah, I don't post on a regular basis, but anyway, the point going back to Erling Harlem, before he distracted me was he obviously missed the preseason tour to the Far East. He didn't return to training until mid-August. So in many ways, he fears that he says he'll get to speed with the fitness, but he was saying that, you know, mentally, the mental fatigue about

playing so much football and not having a proper break. And Enzo Moreska was saying, saying at some stage we'll have to give him, you know, he'll either have a week off or he'll miss a game because otherwise he fears burnout. Very good. So Manchester United, Manchester City, do not miss that. Five Live, 4.30, Sunday afternoon. Leeds Newcastle playing on Monday night, so there'll be updates on that into the Monday night club with Mark Chapman, Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Shay Given this week. On this podcast, we still have the clash of the commentators and the great lossary to come, as well as our unintended club name of the week, which is a very good one this week, I must say. But onto the correspondence, Stephen from Glasgow says, as an old firm

fan, I was going to ask, what is the craziest local derby you guys have ever commented on, bearing in mind, obviously Rangers and Celtic are going to play each other, midday kickoff Sunday in the Scottish League Cup quarterfinal? What would you propose you to? craziest is the sort of specific word in the question. The ones I used to enjoy, and they came early in my commentary career, were Bristol City Bristol Rovers derbies when I worked at BBC Radio Bristol, because, you know, people wouldn't immediately think of those as big derbies because of certainly the level that both of those clubs were playing at,

you know, when I was commentating on them. but, you know, the passion, the ferocity, the intensity and all of that was there. And, you know, at Ashton Gate, as was, used to commentate in a very rickety, narrow, sort of enclosed press box in their Memorial Stadium, obviously, for the Bristol Rovers home games. But I do remember doing one of those at Ashton Gate in December, which I think was a 3-1 or 3-2 to Bristol City. and it was absolutely bouncing. I mean, both sets of fans, night game, a lot of fun. Used to enjoy those. Used to enjoy those.

Well, I always used to love the old firm when they had the full allocation of away supporters. I can remember being at Ibrox, and there was something like 6,000, 7,000 Celtic fans, which I thought always added to the occasion. But I, again, like Ali, would have to go back to the very early stages of my career. So I'm thinking mid-90s, Roker, Park, Sunderland, Newcastle, the intensity, the hatred between the two sets of supporters and the atmosphere was just something like, I don't think I'd ever experienced. And if you recall, there was a paddock that used to run in front of the press box. And I remember this

Sunderland fan once pulling himself up to hurl abuse at McMartin, who was working for the local radio station at the time, Metro Radio. And I was working for Radio Newcastle. And it was a real eye-opener. I've got to say, for one of my first encounters working on a Weir-Tine Derby or a Tyne Weir Darby, the passion that both sets of supporters had was, I can still remember it quite vividly. I'd agree with that.

I've got similar experience, Roker Park, Sunderland, Newcastle. The one that comes to mind as well is Birmingham City, Aston Villa, because I was commentating on the Peter Enkelman match. And that may well have been my first Birmingham-Aston Villa that I'd done. And I remember thinking, wow, this is absolute. because for St Andrews, which can be one of the noisiest places that you go to, it can be, they can be rabid there, can't it? But, I mean, every, every Darby has got its passion, hasn't it?

And, you know, even think back to last season, that extraordinary final Derby match at Goodison Park season before last, that was an amazing finish, an amazing match in the atmosphere and everything that went into that and how it kicked off. that will definitely stay in my memory that one. Yeah. The Derby I'd like to do, and we wouldn't obviously do commentary on it,

but it's on my bucket list, is Red Star Partisan in Belgrade. I would like to, I think that would be white-hot in terms of an atmosphere. Who was I talking to? Oh, yes. A friend of mine who,

I got to know in the summer, who covered, who worked for Brazilian TV. And there were, there were a team of them who moved around, and they were covering England, you see, so we'd see them every time that we covered an England match. Anyway, at Arsenal, last week I got a step on my shoulder,

and here she is. She's got a job covering the Premier League. And so we were talking about this kind of things that she'd encountered. We were talking about what it was like in Mexico as well, and I was saying, well, you'll have some real experiences here. And she said, yeah, well, I've covered football in Argentina, so I've done Bocca Juniors against River Plate, Twitch, I thought,

Ah, right. Yeah. In that case, in that case, I'm not sure there's much I can tell you about hostile environment. So that's good.

Thanks very much to Stephen for that. It's always good talking about Derby matches, isn't it? And whenever we have this conversation, different memories will come up. But listening for Biss 1, Allie, only on TCV would we get correspondence about ear infections?

And this is after Ali got, was it swimming? as a year when you were on holiday. Is that what you called it? Well, I think so, John, because it came from, I mean, I remember this as a kid. It came from spending a lot of time in the swimming pool. Anyway, another alley, Ali in Coventry says, hi, TCD, team. I'm a Coventry City season ticket holder and recently drove to watch the Sky Blues play away to Plymouth in the Caribout cut. I stayed overnight at a friend's house, says Ali, but woke up the following morning, dizzy, nauseous,

deaf and my left ear, unable to walk unaided. It was so bad my two grown-up sons had to drive to Devon to bring me and my car back home to Coventry. Suffice to say, I missed our 25-year Premier League

homecoming match against Hall City and our away match at Manchester City, so I've really depended on BBC Radio Commentary to follow along in my other ear. No doubt, Ali, that neither of us will get a sympathetic ear from Hare Chapman. Exclamation, Mark, brackets, no pun intended.

Hoping I get back to seeing the real Sky Blues live soon. I think I'm safe to say. My situation is cleared up. I can't believe how much time we're spending on this. I don't think it was labyrinthitis, so I'm just going to keep going as I was. I'm sure all of us would wish the other alley in Coventry, the best with that.

We've also got an email from West Ham fan Keith who says, Hi, gents, love the podcast. It completes my football watching stroke listening experience. When I'm at a game, I still turn on five live for updates at halftime. Well done for getting connection for that. I'd also never heard the term polka used for a player scoring four goals. I'm lucky to support the hammers and old enough to have seen players score five and six goals in a match. Five by Brian Dia in 20 minutes against West Brom, Easter 1965,

and six by Sir Jeff Hurst against Sunderland in 1968. A game where two future Knights of the Realm scored, says Keith, Jeff Hurst and also Trevor Bruchin. Now, how often has that happened? My question is, what is the name if you score five or six goals in one game? We've got some answers here, John, from the internet. By the way, am I right in saying in terms of Premier League history, and that only starts in 1992, I know,

have we had a double hat trick, or is five the most in one game? It's five, isn't it? I can't think of a player that scored six or... Not just the Premier League, Ali. I don't think we've had a double hat trick in the Champions League. No, no. No? Yeah.

Erling Harlan scored five. Yeah. Against Lopes, Lipsic, messy Adriano but I don't think we've had a double hat trick in the Champions League

okay okay but John the answer to this question is and again this is just this is just from a quick search

on the internet five goals apparently known as a glut a re-poker don't love either of those or a manita meaning little hand in Spanish so representing five fingers

I quite like that that's good isn't it I've not heard that one Have you heard, have either of you heard of Mineta? No. No. No. The five goal list from Premier League football.

Andy Cole against Ipswich. Alan Shearer, Newcastle, United against Sheffield Wednesday, September 99. I saw Jermaine Defoe do it against Wiggin. At Whitehart Lane. He scored five. I think that was 9-1 that game. Burbatoff did it for United against Blackburn. And Sergio Aguero, Manchester City against Newcastle.

There you go. I was there for that one as well. That was Steve McClaren's Newcastle United, who I think took the lead that day. This from Sam in County Down, who I think is fishing to be read out on the podcast, as Sam knows, will always read out messages from our younger listeners.

Sam says, hi, hi, TCV. I look forward to TGV every Friday. I always listen to it while I do my Friday homework. I don't think I would do it if it wasn't for TGV. Keep up the good work. Can keep up the homework, Sam. Friday Homework. I always thought you'd have the day off from doing homework on a Friday.

I always used to do my homework on the Sunday going back to school on the Monday. That surprises me, knowing you as I do now. What, they actually did homework. Well, no, no. I thought you would be a Friday homework. And you know when I would do mine? You'd do your Saturday morning. With my reputation for always doing things well in advance of time.

You do your Sunday night. I often did my homework on Monday morning. I'll get up to do it on Monday morning. The other thing I think about that, I've no longer got the capacity to listen to speech radio and do my prep at the same time. I just can't concentrate.

That's too many words and thoughts. And it's slightly annoying because when something like the Solheim Cup is on as it is at the moment or TMS, you know, I just, it really slows my work down if I'm listening to TMS. I love it, but I just, you know,

I just need quiet now. I just need. Yeah. What I would, again, this is very niche, but I suppose that's what this podcast is for in terms of commentators' preparation. But I can do my player notes while I'm listening to speech radio, but when I do the more complicated stuff about, you know, team records and facts and statistics,

then I do need to, I can't listen to speech radio then. I do that with quiet. That actually makes sense to me, John. That does make sense because the initial bit of things. player notes is just writing numbers, names, ages, caps, goals. Yeah, I get that. I think I could probably manage that, yeah. I had something in midweek when I was in Porto, so on the day of the game, I look at my notes that I've already done, go through them with the highlighter, and I'll have a little siesta before going off to the game, but when I was going through with

my highlighter, I don't know if this has happened to you two, there was a word that I just could not read. And I was thinking to myself, what does that say? And I looked at it, I was squinting at it, I put it under the light. And for the life of me, I must have spent about 10 minutes thinking, I couldn't even read my own writing. I thought, bloody hell, what does this say? And in the end, I actually gave up on it, went back to it, and then I thought, ah, that's what it is.

And it was leaders. I've written down leaders. Yeah. But it didn't half wind me up. So you're going to need to employ someone now to do your Insta and actually handwrite your notes for you. You're going to have to dictate your notes so you can read them. You're sounding like him now. Well, applications for that lucrative role to TCV at BBC.com.com.

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Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Right, I think it's time. Thank you very much for all the correspondence, by the way. And we've still got unintended pub name to come and the great glossary of football commentary. But it is time for when you're not playing it, our favourite feature on the pod. When you are playing it, the least favourite feature on the pod. Because you're in the spotlight. You're under pressure.

It's time for Clash of the Commentators. A chance for Ian here to get his first. point on the board this season. The league table, after John Tasted defeat last week, in a humdinger, actually, players to have left Chelsea this summer went to a tiebreaker. I managed to nick that, so I'm two from two. John is one from two, and Deno so far, Ian, is zero from two. So John and Ian today are going to take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as they can in 30 seconds. However, however, Ali, when you say, at Humdinger last week, we've had an email into the TCV inbox from Ian, which is titled,

Justice for John. Wasn't me, by the way. And he says, no, not that one. He says, good morning team. And it is indeed morning as we're recording this. So good morning to you, Ian. I've just been enjoying your latest episode. And although I am a fan of AVB, I would like to raise a query around the scoring at the last clash of the commentators where you had

to name the 39 Chelsea departure this summer. Was Robert Sanchez included in ABB score? If so, did he really say Robert Sanchez? It sounded at first listen that he questioned whether Sanchez had left, but didn't sound like he committed to him as an answer. Just thought I would raise it for a debate.

So let's have a listen. Cookeraya, Robert Sanchez, has he gone? I can't remember if he's gone. Well, so what I would say there is a couple of things. one that is that's a tactic I've learned from Chris Sutton because that's the way he plays those games where he's looking for confirmation from people. So then if it's wrong, I mean, you can't actually do it in Clash of the Commentators, but if it's wrong, he'll then claim he didn't say it. So I agree with that. I think I did say it. I think it was a rhetorical question to myself. I think I did give it as an answer. I feel it'd be very harsh to have it redacted and removed from the competition. But, you know, I'm happy to go with whatever, whatever. we decide. Well, no, I don't think that should happen, but I've got to say that that is a technique

that you have used in the past. So therefore, if that was to be removed last week, you'd then have to maybe go back and the first season of TCV when you were the champion, you'd then have to strip you of that title as well. And I wouldn't go down that avenue. Well, it's been a theme of the week, hasn't it? Raising the possibility of their titles being stripped. And actually, though, Bolton fan Dom says, I'm sorry to say, John, but I doubt there

will be any official ruling from Lausanne coming to your aid this week. And of course, last season we did have that tremendous piece of work. That wasn't from Dom, was it? Or was that from someone else? It was, yeah. Was it? It was Dom

who actually did the Yeah, which was a brilliant piece of work. He had too much time on his hands did Dom. He had too much in time. And he obviously hasn't got enough time on his hands now. But I think on this occasion, I will hold up my hand. Okay. I will also, I'll take a yellow card on that.

I've got my warning. I won't do that again. I will not do that again. Okay. You have well and truly had a shot across your bows. That's a totting up process, isn't it? The next one, that's it. It is. That's it.

Right. And you don't want to do a Christost solace either for you. fold of the ground waving an imaginary yellow card. Right. So, Class of the commentators today, who would like to go first? Well, I went first last week, so Ian, do you want to go first? Okay. So, Ian, here we go. Again, this is John's commentary game, this one, so, you know, do we make him the favourite?

Our Sunday 430s, the Manchester Derby, United won this exact fixture last season, 2-0, but they've not beaten City twice in a row at Old Trafford in the Premier League since winning three in a row there from 2009 to 2011. So those dates are absolutely key. We need you to name any United or City player to have featured in those three Premier League derbies at Old Trafford. So they could have played for United or City between 2009 and 2011. And apparently double points for each goal scorer you can name

as well. Any player for either side in that hat trick of Manchester United wins. Your time starts now. Blimey. Berbertoff, Rooney. Um, Van Dasar.

Aguero. Silver. No, no, that's too soon. Damn. Um. Gigs. I don't think No, I don't think that's too bad.

I hate these ones. I hate these having to go back to a date and think of squads and players. I think these are really difficult. I've got it here. Berbertoff correct, Rooney correct, Van Dasar correct. You're right about Aguera that was too early. Silver, correct, gigs correct. That's five correct answers.

And knowing how John can sometimes, you know, fall over in a big... Were any of them goal scorers? Oh, good question. Rooney's double points David Silver's double points Great question Yes two of them That's it

Yeah so that's not bad I think that's not bad I'm gonna I'm gonna put my neck on the line here And say You're gonna win this Right let's get him back Let's get him back

Let's wave at him Here we go John Before he comes back though Oh hang on He's about to plug in All right yeah Yeah I think I know what you're gonna say

I'm back He's back So hush hush in Here we go then John The game you're commentating On Sunday 435 live and BBC Sounds is the Manchester Derby.

Manchester United won this exact fixture last season by two goals to nil, but they've not beaten City twice in a row at Old Trafford in the Premier League since they won three in a row there from 2009 to 2011. So we need you to name any United or City player to have featured in those three Premier League derbies at Old Trafford. So key dates between 2009 and 2011. and there's double points today for each goal scorer you name. So if any of the players you name scored, that is double points.

Any player for either side in those three Manchester United wins between 2009, 2011, and your time starts now. Okay. Rooney, Jekyll, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbertoff, um uh guero uh company

um uh of Manchester United midfielders um schools um rashford

uh oh whoa whoa so John definitely fired off more names definitely fired off more names but was he accurate enough with them?

So what I can tell you is that Ian scored John Ian scored seven points by saying Burbatoff Rooney Van Dasar David Silver and Ryan Giggs Rooney and David Silver were both goal scorers so that got him up to seven points from your answers we've got Rooney so that's word two points Jeco Correct answer came off the bench

I can see in one of the games Correct answer for one point Tevez Correct answer and scored So what's that you're up to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Ronaldo correct answer and scored 7

Burbatoff 8, company 9 Skulls 10, he's absolutely walked it He's won it by a country mile and I said after Denno's go, I thought Denno might win that. That's very good. Well, congratulations, first of all for John.

Thanks, Ian. Thanks, Ian. That's very much. The point I was about to make to you, Allie, before that John came back on, there has got to be a steward's inquiry now that for successive weeks now, we've had commentaries based on games

that John's doing the commentary for. Yeah, no, I wasn't. I'm not doing the commentary in 2010. I'm just saying. I see both sides of that, Ian, because John's obviously getting himself into a Manchester Derby frame of mind, but there'd be no reason really. I suppose, though, I suppose if your notes took you back to,

when was the last time like that question, you know. Yeah, but same as last week. I haven't started fretting that much yet. Well, you say that. Yeah. Yeah, but how many Manchester Derby's have you done? Oh, we've all done Manchester. Well, you'll have done the most.

I'm older than you. I hate those ones, the date ones. I hate them. You both would have been doing that. I'm not good at that. dreading that. I'm not going to wait. I was dread as soon as you started saying it.

I thought, oh no, not one of you. I've disappointed actually. Neither of you mentioned Bozinoff came off the bench for Manchester City. Valerie Bozheny. I knew, John, I was going to say, I was going to say Victor. I think it's Valerie. It was Valerie, yeah. Paul Gereon.

Call on me, Valerie. That's it. That's it. Yeah. So John, John is two from three. and Denno. Still yet to win this season. I thought he did well there though.

Still, it's early days. The clocks have not come back, yeah? I think I need to pull your socks up. Change my approach. Just to let you know the goal scorers because those were the ones worth double points because I know people will be playing along at home as well. So from the game May 2009,

Ronaldo and Tevez, they were both mentioned, both by John, actually. They scored in a 2-0 win. the September 2009 game was the Manchester United 4 Manchester City 3 Rooney scored Darren Fletcher scored twice Michael Owen remember with the 96th minute

winner Gareth Barry Craig Bellamy and Bellamy actually got two for Manchester City and then February 2011 Manchester United 2 Manchester City won Ian mentioned David Silver Rooney scored again and no one said dear old nanny

Nanny neither Nanny nor Valerie Bojinoff. No. Good. That is, just to repeat, that is now you and me join top of the table, isn't it, Ali? Although you're ahead by the fact that you've played twice and I've played three times. It won't last, John. I can assure you of that.

Okay, well, let's see about that. It will if you keep playing me. Well, at the moment, you're, however, form fluctuates Ian. We know this, covering sport as we do. Let's move on to this week's unintended tugname of the week, which is an absolute cracker. And it comes from Steve from Chelmsford. And it's actually the inspiration, Ian, to cheer you up,

comes from your commentary on Nottingham Forest against Spurs last Saturday afternoon. Unintended Pubname of the Week. Goal for Burton Albian against Cambridge United as Tanali. by the prospect of Marillo and Spurs get a throw on this near side. Unintended PubName of the week. So a bit of context to this.

London pub goers may know of and I am aware of this although I don't think I've been in it. The prospect of Whitby which is on the banks of the Thames in the East End. And Steve says The prospect of Marillo

would be the sister pub to the prospect of Whitby and says a little further up the Thames, it would be a proper old Dockland's boozer, dark wood, low oak beams, guest ails, and over the front door a weathered sign showing a tall ship being tossed about in stormy seas. The ship would have sunk in the Atlantic and the wreckage would have washed up on the Copacabana beach in Brazil. The jukebox in the prospect of Marillo would only have one song, the forest anthem, Mull of Kintyre playing on repeat through crackling speakers while a faded Brazil flag hangs on the

wall above the billiards table. There we have it from Steve, the prospect of Marillo. Those, the last two weeks, the goalkeeper's arms and the prospect of Marillo are two of the best we've had. Those two entries have really hit the mark, I think. I've got to say that's set. That was a very good suggestion. And before we move on to the glossary, we've actually I've had a follow-up piece of correspondence about some unintended pub names. It's actually a WhatsApp message from Matt in South End who says, just listen to the latest PCB podcast. And I think I have a useful bit of information that falls into two camps of discussion,

the unintended pub name and your conversation about the glossary term back stick. At South End United's Roots Hall, there is a pub in the east stand called the Far Post, it's even got a goal post on the wall. Anyone's seen that? I've been to Roots Hall. I've definitely commentated there, but I've probably, well, I've probably seen it,

but I don't remember it. It always makes me think of Rob Northman as well, our football producer and commentary coach to the stars. He'll always say at the end of a conversation, see you at the far post, won't he? Yeah, he does. He did it?

Yeah. You've been to Saturday, yeah. I have, although it was a while ago now. It was for an FA Cup time. against Hull City when Steve Bruce was the manager. So you'd be going back at least 10 years. I can go back a little bit further than that.

My first trip to South End was when I was working in local radio, at Tfm in commercial radio. And I remember one of my early commentaries, we went to South End. And when we got to Ruth Hall, there was a market right outside the ground. So I wasn't sure where to park. And they just said, no, just leave the car in the market. So they actually, I was sort of driving around these stalls.

And I thought, I thought, we'll just leave it here. And they said, yeah, yeah, just leave it here. I got out the car, the stall next to where I parked the car. And I've never seen another market store do this. It was selling toilets. So it was toilet. It's actually toilet basins. Is that what you call them?

There was like 40 toilets. Are they bowls? Toilet bowls. Boilts. Toilet bowls. Toilet bowls. Toilet bowls. About 40 toilet bowls for sale.

Yeah. And how many did that? sell? Well, I don't know. I don't know, because by the time they came out of the match afterwards, everything's gone. The car's still there. They've all gone. So that was going to be my question, Joel. Would you be concerned leaving your car parked up in the midst of a market that you might come back in your car have been sold? That is a good point. Because, fortunately, it's, fortunately my trusty VW Jetta was still there. It's just reminded me that the golf course I play at here. We play around Salsbury race course. And when the races are on, our golf course, our nine holes,

get shut for a couple of days, but it reopens at 10 o'clock the following morning. But if people have had a few to drink and decide to leave the cars, sometimes the overflow parking is in the middle of the second fairway. But if you're not there to pick your car up at 10 o'clock the following morning, then that is, that's fair game. That's a target. So then you're sort of trying to shape shots around around cars in the middle of the second fairway. Gentle fade.

Exactly. Just thinking if you had sold your car in the mix the ceramics or the toilet balls, you'd have been feeling a little flush. I think best to move on to the glossary. The great glossary of football commentary. This is where we build a collection

of commentary terms and phrases. And we put football exclusive terms into Division I. And Division II is for terms used across various sports, not just football. So for example, last week we added Terrier and working their socks off into Division 2, while the beautiful game and Back Stick made it into Division 1, our first Division 1 entries of the season. However, Rob in Romford has sent us this. Regarding last week's episode, the term back stick is also used in hockey,

the proper kind, not the one on ice. It may occasionally be used to refer to the back post and is likely borrowed from football. However, it is most often used to describe use of the rounded or back of the stick to strike the ball. This would naturally result in a free hit being awarded to the opposition. So thank you Rob for that and 15 year old Newcastle fan Adam says, I play hockey and a key rule is you can't use the back of your stick. The crime is labeled as a back stick. So I think it must be relegated to Division 2, which may come to the potential delight of John, who wasn't the biggest fan of the Fraser in the first place. Thanks for being a constant inspiration to the younger generation, says Adam.

Well, thank you for being inspired, Adam. So there we are. I didn't know that it was actually caught. I knew that that was the rule, having played a little bit of hockey. I knew you couldn't use that. But I didn't know it was, that was, oh, that's a backstage. Yeah, I played a lot of hockey, John. And I, you know, now those messages come in.

I would totally accept that. I mean, they are in slightly different context, aren't they? Because the backstick we're talking about is the far post in football. Although, who was it said there? Was it Rob? Who said, actually, the far post in hockey can be called the backstick as well. But backstick in that instance is totally different from the backstick we're talking about. But I accept it.

Same words, div two. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. So backstick relegated to Division II. And thanks also to Prabat in San Diego. Is that a new location for a piece of correspondence? correspondence to the commentators view, I think it might be. He also told us about the hockey version of back stick. Next up, Georgian Hartfordshire, high T-C-V, I love the show, perfect Saturday

morning accompaniment for my walk into town. Following on from the addition of back stick, now relegated into Division 2, could you also have woodwork or some variation of, for example, hit the woodwork off the woodwork? Whilst rugby has posts, I can't recall ever hearing them referred to as woodwork and not sure any other sports with goals do the same. Like hockey, for example. What do you think? Good question, George. I mean, the hockey ones nowadays aren't made of wood, are they? They're metal. They ping. Those ones do.

Rugby force? Would you say that? Did they say? Struck the upright, maybe. I'm not sure he'd say that. Yeah, the upright. But George is asking whether that actually belongs in Division 1? Well, I think it's Division 2. Okay. Fair enough. Denied by John Murray. AJ in Galston says, Hi John, Ian and ABB.

I want to first thank you all for helping me get through my hour-long walk to college in the mornings. I'm a lifelong Manchester United fan, which is admittedly not that long. I'm only 16. You say all teenagers correspondent gets read out, so let's see if it's true. There you are, you see, told you, AJ. And he says, I was watching the Manchester United Sabah game in which I thought at times it could be described as men against boys. I didn't describe it as that way at the start of this podcast, did it?

And he says, I was wondering if this could be used in any other sports or could it make it into Division 1. That's very much Division 2, isn't it? I would say so. But I agree with him. It was men against boys. They were so easy to play around, weren't they? But thank you, AJ.

We've now got a Liverpool fan, OB. Dear TCV, writing to you from Toronto and Canada, I absolutely love your podcast. For me, it's to pass time in traffic on my drive home on Friday evenings. My suggestion for the glossary is makes himself big when referring to a goalkeeper. I can't think of another sport or any other situation where somebody makes themselves big, but I could be wrong. My mind goes to hockey again, possibly. I mean, the goalkeepers are so massive with all the kit on there.

Can they make themselves look bigger? Handball, possibly? Probably Division 2. because you will have, it'll be hockey, won't it, that says that would be a phrase. Possibly, yeah. Believe it or not,

Gary Flintoff is ringing me now. Gary's ringing me now. He's ringing us every week. This is our football producer. He's ringing me. I've referenced this before, but it's the Faulty Towers episode where Sybil's in hospital

and she's asked Basil to move the moose's head and she keeps phoning him when he's in the process. I'm doing it. What is the point? I'm doing it. What is the point of phoning me to tell me to do something I'm already doing? Hello?

Yes, faulty towers. Hello. I was just doing it, you stupid woman. I just put it down to come here to be reminded by you to do what I'm already doing. And what is the point it reminding me to do what I'm already doing? I'm. What is the bloody point? I'm doing it, aren't I?

Well, Gary's made himself very big there, which suggests that it really is a division two term. and on the subject of making himself big, what about this one from Matt in South London? He says, Dear TCV, when Harvey Barnes scored his goal against Bournemouth last weekend, Match of the day, commentator Tom Gale said the following. That is a great division one.

That is in division. Well done, Tom. For the old, you could have had two goalkeepers in there. And Matt says, implying, of course, that the shot was unstoppable, regardless of how many goalkeepers were in goal. and Matt says I'd like to propose you could have two goalkeepers in there

as a Division 2 entry for the glossary I'd not that in Division 1 wouldn't you? Yeah, I think so. Again, hockey, but I don't think, I mean, the goals in hockey are so small that you wouldn't use that in hockey, I don't think. And also, if you did have two goalkeepers in hockey, they actually would never score.

Exactly. And actually, if you think about it, in hockey, they've already made themselves big, haven't they, with all the padding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So thanks, well-spotted. Matt, and as we say, any contributions to the glossary from any commentary, football commentary, otherwise that you hear during the course of the week and send it to us.

But let's finish with this one from Norwich City fan Leo, who says, Hi, Ali, John. And he says, the newly coined BBC's football senior football's daughter, Ian. That's what you called him, Ali, wasn't it? Yeah, but that's actually, I've had that title since 2009. Yeah, but not BBC Football, Senior Football Reporter, you haven't. Not with all the footballs in it, no. Oh, I'm with you, sorry, yeah.

Yeah, I get me. And Leo says, as I was listening, so the latest TCD, watching the game week highlights, and attempting to finish off some lengthy summer homework all in tandem. He's no Alistair Bruce Ball. He says, I heard Gary Tapphouse described Harvey Barnes' whipped effort as a purler. It struck me that this might slot in nicely next to Penenka in Division I, as I can't imagine what other sport this has been used in before.

However, I will leave it to the masters to decide. Keep up the good work and may TCV ever continue to distract me from my homework, loyal Norwich City fan, Leo. So, Perler, I think I know what Ali's going to say. Well, are you thinking along the same lines as me, John, could cricket have it? Yeah, exactly. You're miming Seymar, aren't you? And I think you could deliver a perler.

I think a slip catch could be an absolute perler. I agree. Division two. Definitely. You know, an out-swinger kicks the outside edge, a perler. Yeah, it's a perler. Yeah. Opportunity missed. I always remember this.

commentary years and years ago, Euro 2012, Pierlo scored a brilliant free kick in a game I was doing, and that should have been a Perler from Pierlo, that I always think bother. I should have said that. The summary this week for the Great Glossary, back stick relegated to Division 2, woodwork into Division 2, Men Against Boys, Division 2,

makes himself or herself big, Division 2, Perler, Division 2, but you could have two goalie us in there and they still wouldn't have saved it, goes into Division I. Hooray! So that is about it for this edition of the commentator's view. I mentioned we'd had Praba get in touch. We have had other listeners from San Diego. A.J. wrote to us about squeaky bum time and fergy time from San Diego and proud Brad Fordy and Michael also got in touch from a small mountain town called Julian,

which he says is an hour from San Diego. So we have had listeners from San Diego. Thank you very much to you two. Thank you. I think we're all back in tandem next week, aren't we, again? Can we be in tandem as a three? Or is that for a discussion next week? Good point.

Okay, we're all going to be back in tricycle next week. And looking forward as well, we've got Carabal Cook commentaries, haven't we coming up this coming midweek. Are we all in business for that or is that just some of us? Liverpool, Tottenham. I'm at Ipswich on the Tuesday doing updates into Liverpool, Tottenham. Okay.

And I'm at Manchester United Brighton on Wednesday night. So you'll be able to hear us commentate there. So that is it for this episode of the commentators. For you, questions and correspondence, always welcome any time to TCV at BBC.co.com. or you can send us a message or a voice note on WhatsApp to 08,289-389-369. We always love them. Must just mention before we go, personal thanks to everyone who looked after me at De Montfort University in Leicester this week, which they put on a great occasion.

So thank you to everyone there. And the next episode of the Football Daily, ahead of the Manchester Derby, will be the football interview with City defender Ruben Diaz who's a really good talker so that will be well worth listening to EFL has a brand new home Hello and welcome to 72 plus the home of the EFL from Five Life Sports Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough tackle the biggest stories

from across the championship, League 1, League 2 and Beyond For minimum of one week's wage is fine and we may be even write to your wife and tell you why you've been fined if you carry on And the biggest talking points from across the football league I always spoke well I job being enjoyed working with him It's my show too now but yeah thanks for that Sorry I don't know

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