Football Daily - TCV: Murray the Menace & scrap the UCL draw?

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball discuss life as football commentators. How are they coping with VAR in their ears? Are they going for ‘Sávio’ or ‘Savinho’? John’s made it into the Beano. And is it time to scrap the UEFA Champions League draw? All that and round two of Clash of the Commentators, plus will we see a division one entry in the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? Messages and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]02:20 John’s lump in his throat at Newcastle, 08:00 5 Live commentaries this weekend, 13:20 Sávio or Savinho? 15:00 How are they coping with VAR in their ears? 19:00 What’s a ‘Viduka’ and TCV helps you pass! 23:10 John’s in the Beano! 26:00 Bodø/Glimt back in the Champions League! 28:25 Should the UCL draw be scrapped? 31:30 Will Ian power-up in Clash of the Commentators? 40:05 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Coventry v Hull, Sat 1500 Bournemouth v Everton on Sports Extra 2, Sat 1730 Spurs v Newcastle, Sun 1400 Chelsea v Brighton & Hove, Sun 1400 Leeds v Brentford on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1400 Sunderland v Fulham on Sports Extra 3 Sun 1630 Man Utd v Ipswich.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE 50p head Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Backside and elbows, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Caretaker manager, Channel of joy, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head like a biscuit tin, Head like a sheriff’s badge, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Lollipop, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Parachute payment, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Postage stamp, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Taking it to the corner flag, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep.

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Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm Ian Dennis, and this is the commentator's view where we Five Live commentators talk about the football, our travels, and the language we use in football commentary. And as ever, we have a full house. I think John Murray's been writing the script

because John in Lidham last week described him as the goat, but it still says the goat, John Murray, so he's clearly had a hand in that, has the correspondent. And Five Lives' newest, Athletics Commentator, Ali Bruce Ball. Hello.

you'd have been impressed with me on the athletics front because last night I eschewed Five Lives commentary of Chelsea against Luton and got stuck into the Diamond League meeting in Zurich so hooked am I on my new sport saw two world records I mean that's quite a rare thing there were two world records set

in Zurich last night so that was exciting you know when sometimes you go to a football game on your own I don't know if you two do this and sometimes you can fall into you start commentating even though you're watching did you do that now as

with your athletics head on. Do you know what? The thing I do do in, one of the brilliant bits of advice I've been given by a few people, Mike Costello, who obviously used to do the job for the BBC, Steve Cramm, who still does,

was in those sprint races when the gun goes to give yourself, a second is probably too much, but half a second. Don't say anything, just try and read it, just try and see who's made the good start. And you've got to have a bit of confidence to do that.

But what I do find myself doing now, just watching at home is just trying to read it off the blocks, just saying to myself, oh, Lane 4 good start, or that kind of thing, do you know what I mean, just so that you're kind of ready for the next time. So yeah, I'm getting a little bit sort of statter on the athletics from. And how did you feel, Ian, getting back into football commentary last weekend, at the City Ground Nottingham?

Well, I was just going to say, as you know from last week with Clash with the Commentators, I was a little bit rusty, but I couldn't help but get the buzz on the opening day. Walking to the city ground, I knew the atmosphere is guaranteed, to be great. So yeah, it was a little rusty in terms of getting back into the rhythm, the swing of things. But I was going to say to you, John, I mean, I listened to you, you were obviously

at Brentford, but then I, and I listened to you on my way home with Michael Brown. But the St. James's Park the next day, the way that you described, what was clearly a very emotional scene at St. James's Park, as we knew it was going to be, I thought was outstanding regarding Kevin King. We talked about how emotional it was going to be, and it really was, you know. And I thought Newcastle and the War Flags Group staged it brilliantly, you know, to have it all around the stadium. And also, what was really effective was that they gave it a little bit of space to breathe before the match, before the teams came out. It takes a lot for me to get a lump in my throat, but I did. when it was all, they put a very effective video up on the screens,

which was in black and white. And it was at that point that the words, Kevin Keegan's words were put up in the Gallagate end. And I think everyone who was there, and I'll have witnessed it, and probably people who were tuning in as well, will have felt that emotion. And John, when you said they let it breathe, I actually thought that actually is the perfect way

to describe how your commentary was, because anybody who hasn't yet listened to it or seen it, You can go back to the BBC Sounds app and gives you the opportunity to rewind and to find the start of that commentary ahead of the game at St James's Park last Sunday. It was a 4.30 kickoff. But I say seen it because it was on Instagram

and it was on all other social media platforms such as X. And it was a real close-up of you, John, and you did let it breathe. And I think it was so measured and you could feel the emotion. Well, that's why I let it breathe. because I was actually struggling to keep it together. And if you do look at the video,

you can actually see bottom lip wobbling a little bit. I felt that as soon as I walked up to St. James's Park, and almost the first thing that I saw was a young boy who was probably only about, I don't know, 30 or 14 years old, but he was wearing an England top from the 1982 World Cup with Keegan on the back. And I just thought, God, that just goes to show what's coming here. And virtually everyone was wearing a Keegan shirt.

And as I said before to you, I think it's just that. And so many people will feel this that they have this connection with Kevin Keegan. And for people of my age, you know, he was my first footballing hero, really. And to have followed his career as a football follower and then doing this job and interviewing him and, you know, seeing how it all played out. I think that's what you were feeling on that day at St James's Park. So I think that all who were assembled there and all who were following it from wherever, because of that connection that they had with Kevin Keegan, I think that's why there was the emotion.

Just on the commentary side of things, Ian, I have since watched that clip of John and Pat Nevin describing the scenes. And you're absolutely right. It's, you know, Newcastle did it brilliantly. But on radio in particular, you've got to try and get a lot. lot in there, haven't you, but also have the confidence. And it's the hallmark of John's commentary style, I think, is, as we joke, you can never hurry a Murray.

But it's always measured. And John, I'm not talking about the time it takes for you to eat dinner, John. I'm talking about when you're on air. But even, I, you know, I always think this listening to you doing England at the major tournaments, even in the biggest moments, I always feel you're not rushed. You're confident enough to let things breathe. And I think, particularly on radio, that takes quite a lot of confidence because you're thinking, oh my goodness, dead air.

Like there's nothing. What are people listening to? But sometimes actually, just the atmosphere around you speak so much louder than our words can. So it was, yeah. Well, that's very kind of lot. I think my response to that would be half the time

I'm thinking about what I'm going to say next. So I'm giving myself a bit of breathing time. But I'll never forget that. What was the story, Ali, you were going to tell us about your holiday? Yeah, so you know, John, this is a classic. You know, we've all had very, busy summers of sport and you go away on your holes and you know you go away to to relax don't

you completely unwind switch off refresh and hopefully come back you know 100% and absolutely raring to go when was the last time you came back from a summer holiday with an ear infection I mean I think it must be when I was eight years old it used to be a problem of constantly getting in the pool and I honestly speaking to this morning in my right ear it feels like someone has waged a ton of cotton wool I just I it's ridiculous it's a absolutely ridiculous, so I've got to get down to the pharmacy this afternoon and try and get some medication, because it's... We would call the chemist.

Particularly these headphones. What did I say? The pharmac... Go to the chemist, John. That's where I'm going. That would have been a $5 fine at the World Cup. I'm quite glad that I'm not actually in a stadium. So I'm actually presenting on Sunday this weekend, but I'm not in a stadium because I do think

the balance of sound in my ears, headphones and crowd noise, if this doesn't clear up in a couple of days, you know, would be a bit of a problem. So it's probably good. I'm in the studio on Sunday. Do you remember I had a blocked ear in Qatar at the World Cook, which was really debilitating? I was like you.

I couldn't hear out of one ear. Do you remember? I had to go and get my ear syringed in a clinic in Qatar. And as soon as they did that, I felt like a new man. So Clash of the Commentators and the great glossary to come.

But here's our schedule this weekend on five last. updates of Crystal Palace Manchester City Friday night. Likewise updates of Liverpool Nottingham Forest on Saturday lunchtime into five live sport with Mark Chapman and then the commentaries Coventry City Hall City is our three o'clock commentary that's with Pat Nevin the alternative listening that's with the usual goal service is Bournemouth Everton that's on Sports Extra 2 because TMS will be on Sports Extra and then on Saturday Tottenham Hot Spur against Newcastle Connor Macnamara

and Rob Green. And then I look down the list and there's no John Murray this Sunday, he did double bubble last weekend, and there's no Ali Bruce Ball either for Chelsea, Brighton and Ovalbion at 2, Leeds Brentford is on Sports Extra 2, Sunderland Fallam Sports Extra 3,

Manchester United Ipswich at 4.30 and there's no mention of the two of you. And actually Colin in Manchester, Ali, says, love the podcast. And Colin says, I notice Alistair is scheduled to present Premier League Sunday on 5 Live. And Colin asks the question,

is he now more of a presenter for football than a commentator? It's a standing, Colin. So Steve Crosman is away at the moment. So I will be doing a couple of the upcoming Sundays. I think Aaron Paul did last Sunday, and I'm taking over for a couple as well. So no, commentary will be the regular thing, as always, this season. But I do enjoy the presenting.

and I think this Sunday, you know, particularly being second weekend of the season and the narratives that have already developed with those games, Chelsea, who started so well and looked so exciting against Fulham at home against Brighton, who thumped Villa, is our 2 o'clock on 5 Live. And then Manchester United Ipswich, after the United defeat in Ipswich's excellent start, there is a lot to get our teeth into on Sunday. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And actually, Ian, I'm off this weekend.

I've got a couple of social engagements. So I'm actually taking the weekend off. It's not boot club this time, Ali, no. No. So I can't remember the last time that I didn't work on the August bank holiday weekend. We've also had some correspondence from Bradford City fan, Simon TCV at BBC.co.uk. After your question about the big money signings in the last episode,

it would be really good if you could perhaps share a few little. Less or no names you think might come through this season. Oh, and please give a mention to the Mighty Bantams, top of League One as it stands. Yes, the chickens are going rather well, Simon, also through to the next round of the League Cup. Well, the one I was going to mention is, and he's already been on the field for Hull City, is the Australian defender Harrington, who they obviously showed a lot of faith in him, Australia, at the World Cup, because he ended up in the Australian team. and I thought that was quite a shrewd signing by Hall City.

The midfield two for Everton in their win against Crystal Palace, who I know their names we've discussed, but I think you probably still put them in that category, sort of Premier League unproven still at the moment, in Harrison Armstrong and Hayden Hackney, who I heard David Moyes say after the game, they've possibly got their chance there a little bit earlier than might have happened were it not for injuries,

but if you play well and, you know, prove you deserve a place, then it'll be interesting to keep an eye on both of them. quite an amusing text actually from one of our producers, Rory, who had spotted that Ipswich had won their opening game and, you know, knows my leanings on the football front. And he told me that Julio and Ciso looked like Prime Maradonna during that game. And I said, well, just, you know, let's just hold on a minute, because I remember Ipswich 2001, 2002, having got promoted back to the Premier League

Finnish fifth and got into Europe, then bolstered the squad that summer. Finidi George was signed and had an app, I can't remember who it was against, had an absolute blinder on the first day of the season. You were thinking, that is money well spent. This is going to be really good. And didn't do anything for the rest of the season. And I'm just saying to Rory, just, let's just wait and see. Let's just wait and see on that one.

But very important win for I think, because they've got some tough fixtures coming up. So that was a really good start for them. I would go with Muharramovich of Leeds United. He's a Bosnia International. And I think he's a defender. He had a very impressive debut. at the city ground, but he's quite versatile as well.

So I think he can play anywhere across the back. And I think that that could be a good signing for leads. I'd mention those two Aston Villa youngsters as well, George Hemings and Brian Madgeau, who I got more than a glimpse of during the Super Cup match. And I know Madgeau's been injured since. And obviously, things have taken a bit of a turn with Aston Villa, haven't they? But I'm very much looking forward to seeing more of Majo.

You know five of that starting 11 that won the Europa League in Istanbul last year have now left? I mean, that's quite an exodus, isn't it? It really is, isn't it? I don't think it's a real surprise that, isn't it? There's been so much change there from a team that won a European trophy last season. Talking of changes, Manchester City have shipped out Omar Mahmush to Tottenham, which is on a loan with an obligation to buy next summer, but also, and this is a big money move,

a certain Brazilian winger joining spurs for initial fee of 75 million pounds from Manchester City. But what do we make of Savino becoming Savio? There was a bit of talk of this when he was at Manchester City, wasn't there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He could be Savio or he could be Savigno. Because when he was at Girona, he was Savioree, wasn't he?

That's right, that's where it came from, wasn't it? Yeah. Because Manchester City wrote on Social... media wishing you all the best Savino and Spurs announced welcome to Tottenham Savio. Savio's his actual name. He's a different player. Yeah, that's what I was going to say and so the information we've got is that and I do remember this John's right when he arrived at Manchester City. So apparently in 2024 he said his national team puts Savino on his shirt and then he asked Manchester City to keep it for luck when he moved there. Hasn't had an amazing time at Manchester City

in and out of the team. Obviously he has some medals to show for it. So maybe he thinks, let's have a change of luck. Let's go back to Savi. As long as we're all singing off the same hymshi, it's not a problem. If we know his name and we all say it the same, fine. So will the two of you go Savio or Savino? Probably. Well, if he's got Savio.

If he's got Savio on his shirt, we've got to call him Savio, haven't we? No, not necessarily. But if that is actually his name, if that's his name. Yeah. And he said that he wants to, he said that he wants to. He said that he wants to be known by what is actually his name. So probably Savio would be the way. Very quick one for you guys before we move on to the other bits

and bobs of the pod this week. Am I right in saying now when we're commentating new for us this season as Radio 5 live commentators that you will be able to hear or you have been able to hear Stockley Park, the VAR officials' discussions while you're commentating on the game? Is that right? Well, I'd like to hear what John thinks about that, Ali. Because of the three o'clock and the goal service,

I opted not to have the talk back in my ear because I've got enough going on with the producer, following at me all the time, and also trying to listen what's going on. And I just thought it was too much, it was information overload. So when there was the instance of, I think it was an Ina tackle,

Tanya Our engineer then faded up Stockley Park, but I only heard one half of the conversation. Was that any different to you? John. Well, just to explain as well, this is for us to get an idea of what it is that the video assistant referee is talking about. So it's to inform our commentary. So it's not something that we are able to put out on air, but we can listen in and then reflect what the discussion has been between the referee and the video assistant referee. So that's how it works. We are in the early stages of our technology at the moment, Ian, aren't we, in that?

In due course, we will actually be able to turn that up and down ourselves, but at the moment we're not able to do that. So last weekend, I had a combination. At Brentford on the Saturday, our producer George Cummins, actually listened to it, and he would tell me what was being said by VAR in some shape or form. And then on the Sunday, our engineer Chris, when we're at St James's Park, he actually turned, he would turn it up and turn it down, depending on what was happening.

So I've had a taste of it, but I think it will work better when we are actually able to tune into it and then turn it down ourselves. So it informs you while you're describing the scene or whatever, but what you're saying is in terms of that information that you get from Stockley Park, you won't use that until the decision has been made.

You won't use it to sort of say, oh, I think I know what's coming here. No. You wait until the decision's been made and then you say, these are the discussions, da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, I think it, I think the idea is that if it is complicated, we will have a better idea of being able to explain to listeners why that decision has been made because we'll have heard part of the conversation.

I'm not sure I did that. I think I might have actually just said, oh, this is what's going to happen. Well, actually, there is a post here that we've been given, which was actually directed at Sky Sports from a guy called Sam, who says, please tell your commentators not to casually tell us the outcome of a huge VAR call it is far more dramatic and exciting to hear strokes see the referee announced it. So he's made it clear what he wants. See that's one of the things about VAR is that if you do watch at home, back in the day if you think about football,

you'd go to the game and you might stop off for a drink on the way home and those in the pub would go, oh, what happened at the football today? Nowadays, it's the other way around. you can go to the game but the supporter who watches the game at home or in the pub is actually better informed than actually the supporter who's inside the stadium because of technology.

What's interesting as well is we've had a couple of sessions, haven't we, that have informed us as broadcasters about what to expect from VAR this season, both in the Premier League and for the UEFA competitions. And I think it's interesting that the message right from the outset from both organisations has been that the intention is for VAR to have a lighter touch than previously and to really make sure that when it gets involved this season, it is for the clear and obvious.

It will be interesting, won't it, to see how that shakes down. It will indeed. The email is TCV at BBC.co.com. UK and the WhatsApp thingy for messages and voice notes is 08,289-369 should also at that point just give a little shout out to two fine football writers sports writers in the case of Paul Hayward Paul Hayward said he very much enjoyed TCV when I saw him at the cityground last week and John Cross obviously the Daily Mirror and their chief football writer big fan of TCV observant as ever is JC.

And also, talking of being observant, on the subject of pokers or four-goal halls, as we were discussing last week, we've had quite a bit of correspondence. Well, one of those Ian comes from a Leeds fan, Callum, who says, Ray, four goals in a game. For me, this would have to be a veduca

after watching him score four against Liverpool as Leeds won four-three. A glorious memory. Is this one that Ian recalls during his time commenting on Leeds in? Yes, I do, Callum. And actually, I remember it more for Voduka himself after the game, because I always used to do the hospitality suite in the main stand there at Ellen Road, and Voduka's man of the match came up. And I seem to recall that after the game, after he scored all four goals at Ellen Road, he stayed and signed every autograph. And then I've got a vague recollection of him since telling me that he was wearing like a white suit. And as he made his way to the car after the game, he was mobbed by a load of supporters who were all running towards him with the pens and therefore his white suit had quite a few biro marks left on it.

So I do recall that, yes, it was a very good game and a very good performance from Mark Badoca. I was commentating on that match as well again. On Five Live, yeah. We must have been sat together. In a white suit? On that occasion, I don't think I was wearing a white suit. In fact, I don't think I've worn a white suit in my life.

the BBC match report apparently said Voduka they described it as a four-gold blast in terms of Gloucester I'm just wondering about what other words A four-goal salvo possibly What else would you? Four-goal hall Hall yeah that's good

listeners can help with that one In in Dublin he says do you remember Salas scoring four versus Watford on St Patrick's Day 2018 It was the coldest day on earth at Anfield Ireland also won the grand slam against England on a very merry occasion. Indeed, it was cold in mid-March

because the script says here, I was at Old Trafford and I forgot my winter thermals, to which Herr Chapman said on Twitter, get on with it, haven't heard anyone else moaning about the weather this afternoon. Well, that's a real blast from the past, isn't it?

In many senses. Mark Chapman posting on Twitter, when was that, 2018? Bethan has been in touch. I wanted to write to the TCV team to say a big thank you. I've just done my GCSEs and found out the other day that I achieved

all grades 7, 8 and 9 so I'm very happy. Congratulations, Bethan. Throughout my GCSEs I listened to the commentator's view in the evenings after long days of revision which was a nice change from the same old revision content and always made me laugh. As a Liverpool season ticket holder at times

hearing about us losing wasn't fun so hopefully we can have a better season this year and I'm so excited to listen to the pod again now it's back. Thank you for getting me through my GCPy GCSEs. Oh, that's brilliant, isn't it? Thanks for your custom, Bethen. And again, that is proof, if any further proof was needed, that if you're a teenager and you send us an email, it'll always get read out on the commentator's view. But that's really quite touching, isn't it? This is actually putting me in mind as well of, I don't know whether you're

aware of this or not, but BBC Sport is supporting the National Year of Reading at the moment. So quite key, because I've got involved in this, which has ended up with me featuring in a special edition of the Beano. Have we spoken about this? No. No. No. So I feature in this special edition of the Beano. There's got a story and Joe Wicks is in the story, Georgia Stanway, Tim Henman.

And anyway, and all of the Beano characters are in it. So anyway, last week on Gordon Smart's program on Five Live, we did a feature on it to promote it and the link up with the National Year of Reading. And rather amusingly, on that day, even though this edition has been out for probably a couple of months now, it was picked up and actually became an item on the news on Radio 4. So I got a lot of reaction last Friday from people who'd heard about this story of me appearing in the Bino being in the Radio 4 news. Did you read the Bino as a kid, John?

Only occasionally is the answer to that. So I would see the beano and the dandy, but I think my memory of the bino and the dandy was more. You would always get given a copy of the annual at Christmas, wouldn't you? One or the other. But pre-Roy the Rovers for me, which is my weekly fix, the bino used to come through the door every week.

So that would have been as a kid probably a lifetime ambition to try and get into the bino. So well done, you. Well done, Bethan, obviously, on the exam results. Yeah, very much so. But I thought they missed a bit of a trick there because really, Ian, they should have got you to do it, shouldn't they? Dennis, the menace. Very good.

But I know who's more of a menace and it's not me. It's Murray the menace. But it is, I have to say, it is something that I do, when they said, would you do this? You know, it's something that I thought absolutely, I'd love to. if there's a tiny way that I could encourage people to take up reading. And I think comics are a great way into reading. As you mentioned, Ali, Roy the Rovers was quite a big thing, wasn't it? For us when we were growing up, but the various other comics I used to read as well.

Just at Attanard, do you find time for much reading yourself? As in, you know, obviously I'm talking away from sport and prepping or whatever, but actual leisure reading. Yeah, well, I do. And as I was saying to Gordon Smart last week, one of the things that we did, me and some friends, as I think you both know, set up a boot club during COVID. So from a point where I would only read occasionally because you feel like you haven't got the time, but joining the boot club really forced me to, A, read more and B, read things that

I haven't, I wouldn't normally read, and I've really enjoyed it. I wish I'd done it decades ago. We've had this from Jamie from Manchester. Hello, a long-time listener of the commentators view here, generally on a long run. Don't have a dog, sadly, but there we go. During the summer, I visited the north of Norway with a friend of mine, and we trekked across Lafoten Islands. And during this trip, quite a lot of the nights the World Cup was on. So in a random tent, in Midnight Sun in Norway, me and my mate Josh would just have BBC sounds on with one of your commentaries. And it was good company when we were at the end of hiking 15, 20K a day up mountains and stuff. But the main reason for my message is we went through Bodo on the way.

And really bizarrely, it felt like I'd been there before because of how much passion and visceral description you guys give whenever Bodo glimps get a mention on the podcast. So, yeah, we made sure to stop at the stadium, which looks more like it belongs in League 1 or 2. and the Champions League. But thank you for all your work and keep it up. And thank you, Jamie, for listening. And Bodo or Budo back in the Champions League again this season. But they didn't draw any of the Premier League sides, but there's Viking.

So it's actually the first time in 27 years that there have been two Norwegian teams in the Champions League. And Viking did draw Aston Villa. However, it will be Villa at home to Viking, the Norwegian champions rather than going to Norway. Or Veking, as they rather strangely pronounced it during the course of the draw, which I wasn't expecting. So we'll have to check that one out.

And also, as well, it does look, Ali, doesn't it, as though we've done our bit for the Buddha Tourist Board. Yeah. If people are now flocking to Buddha and the Loferton Island. And actually, our BBC colleague, former radio sport colleague, James Porter this summer on a cruise up there went to Buda. So he visited Buda as well and was similarly impressed. Yeah, World Tour for this podcast.

Buda, if we headed the artist circle, that's got to be a stop-off. It feels like a second home. It does. And I have to confess, I was slightly disappointed when Buddha didn't draw any of the English clubs during the draw. Which, incidentally, Ian, I think now that draw, it has just kind of lost touch with reality, hasn't it? They should like the Premier League fixtures now, really, because it's quite a dull draw, isn't it?

Because there's no, it's too big, there's too many fixtures. It's not like it was when it was the group and teams would be in with three other sides. I think really now, probably what they should do is just release the fixtures. I don't think it's as easy as that, though, is it? No, but they could do that behind closed doors, get it all sorted out

the computer does its work you work out the fixtures and the first thing you put in the public domain is who plays who and when the matches are you see with that I think then you

you'd have question marks over transparency wouldn't you people then would say oh it's fixed yeah I think so I mean I know it's it's not the premier least no

just release the fixtures yeah I think it's a really dull draw now and you know you know me I love a draw. I absolutely love a football draw.

This one doesn't work. Yeah, it is a little bit everyone plays everyone, which I know they don't, but in terms of the big fixtures, those juicy ones that sometimes would come out in the group stages,

because you meet a couple of teams from each pot, you know you're going to get lots of juicy ones. It just depends in which order they fall. And how much juice can you score you out of that? When it gets the knockout stages, that's a different matter,

because that has that draw excitement. This lacks, excitement for a draw. Yeah. I know where you're coming from because when I was covering the drawer on 5 Live Drive on Thursday, in many ways it lacks a narrative

because the teams the teams just come out at once because obviously they're generated through the computer. So say for instance with Liverpool because Inter and Athletico had come out first, we knew that they were two

of Liverpool's opponents and then Porto, Bruges, Villariel, Fenabache, Lons and Lask then, came out all at once. And it's very hard, I think, when you look at it, to think, all right, okay, because they might not play inter until January.

So I do get where you're coming from, John, regarding that. And I think it's frustrating for the supporters as well, because they know the matches, but they don't know when they're being played. Yeah, the draw is made Thursday evening, and it's probably not until the Saturday morning when the fixtures are confirmed and the schedule's all in place. Five lights, sports. So here's the first ball of this series.

All the cricket unit. Last. Save Ralphie Wobberts. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Here ball by ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one.

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Good Bad Billionaire and You're Dead to Me with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad free with an Amazon music subscription. Commentators view on the Football Daily with Aniston Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.

Right, it is time for Clash of the Commentators. And anyone who is listening to last week's edition of the Commentators view will know that I got off the mark after beating Ian on the big money moves of the summer. So I am currently sitting on top of the table. So will it be two defeats from two for the defending champion Ian today? That would put the pressure on Ian, wouldn't it? So you're going to take on Ali. And in the clash of the commentators, if you've not listened before,

this is where we take turns to answer a question and give as many correct answers as you can in 30 seconds. So who is going to go first this week? Ian, did you go first last week? I did. Okay. Shall I go first? Let's do that, shall we?

So Ian, you need to disconnect. So, Ali, you'll have to tell me when he's disconnected because without the video. Yeah. Well, that's interesting because he's now frozen on my screen. So I might be relying on producer Nathan to tell me when Ian's disconnected. I think he's gone, John, unless he's playing a clever one there. Let it go. Let it go. Let him go. I think he's gone. Come on. Okay. So Ian's frozen. And we are ready to go. And this is the question, Ali.

So this weekend, our Saturday 5.30 commentary on 5 Live and BBC Sounds is Tottenham against Newcastle. Some might call that the Sandro Tanali Derby. I want you to name any player to have featured for both Tottenham and Newcastle in their careers. So any player to have played for Tottenham and Newcastle 30 seconds from now. Chris Waddle, Paul Gascoigne, Les Ferdinand, Stephen Carr,

I'm terrible at these, I hate these ones. Sandra Tanali, I'll take him. Um cynical Newcastle and Totman I think that's me John I'm going to take five I'll get beaten on that

I think he might have fallen one short there I think he might just pick it at least I think he'll get most of them don't you oh we would definitely get them he might not go to Nali I was going to say before we call him back in he might not go to Nali

which would be very funny Hello Oh, I'm back. Oh, here he is. Okay. Sorry, he's back. Rather dramatic. I just had a power cut, sorry. Power cut?

Yeah. Good. Lost all communication. But are you ready for your contribution? Well, a little flustered. Okay. Not ideal preparation, really. No, it's not ideal preparation.

Do you need another minute or two? No, no, no. I'm right. Yeah. No, fine. Okay. So, Ian, this Saturday, the 530 commentary, is Tottenham against Newcastle on Five Live and BBC Sands,

which is, described by some, as the Sandro Tanali Derby. So the question to you, Ian, is, I want you to name any player to have featured for both Tottenham and Newcastle in their careers. So any player to have played for Tottenham and Newcastle. And your 30 seconds starts now. Paul Gascoigne. Chris Wardle.

Sandra Tanali Ozzyard Elis Ozzie was the manager of the manager not the player oh dear I think the power cut's done for you there I'll take that excuse

well the scores are in and I can tell you that's the result that's a little bit late that's a bit late the result of this week's clash of the commentators

is Ian Dennis three, Alistair Bruce Ball Five So, Alison Ali wins that Thank you

Stephen Carr You're absolutely correct Five Live Sumer Jonathan Woodgate Didn't get a mention Woody From either of you Don't tell you

Saul Campbell Surprised Ian You didn't get Les Ferdinand I thought you'd get Les Ferdinand Yeah Sir Les

Rue Fox Who was also Like Les Ferdinand was at St James's Park last Sunday. A Ginella was one that you'll be kicking yourself from not getting. Ludicrous. And also another one I think you'll be kicking yourselves is Jermaine Genus. Neither have you said.

Who were the other two that Ali said that I didn't? Ferdinand was one, Ali, wasn't it? Stephen Carr. Stephen Carr. Did you say Stephen Carr? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did say Stephen Carr. Jean-Lard, yeah.

I mean, that's an open goal. And Ross Townsend. does another more recent one and also another one you'll be kicking yourself as you didn't get. Kieran Trippia. Yeah, of course.

So there we are. So many. So Ian, I'm sorry to say, and I know there are extenuating circumstances because of this week's power cut. But yeah, that for the defending champion is a disappointing start to the new season.

You know last week you heard a lot of Premier League managers saying we're not up to speed yet. We're yet to find our rhythm. Yeah. Post World Cup. Yeah, that's a little bit like me. We had a bit of money on you not saying Tenali, actually, but you did. We thought you might not say Tanali, but you did.

Much to the disappointment of the listeners, I suspect. So there we are. So you and me, Ali, are joint top of the table, and Ian is bottom after two rounds of Clash of the Commentators for the new season. John, you talked about VAR having a light touch, talk about setting a high bar, don't me, for VAR? Yes. Well, Nathan, our producer, has suggested that we're now going to have a high bar, if you pardon the pun, for the unintended pub name of the week.

So only the very best suggestions now will make it. And this week's unintended pub name of the week comes from Kevin in Wittstable. Gravenberg, fought to Koumash. Koumash taking it on now. Chow comes across, left side of the area, shoots, but it was deflected away. by the recovering deaditch. So Kevin says, I envisage the recovering deadich

to be a pub for those with long-term injuries and going through recovery. I therefore think it would be spacious with neutral interior colours and the smell of hops from the beer would be matched only by the aroma of deep heat. The restaurant food would be wonderful

but the menu strict and set by nutritionists to aid regulars recuperation. The beer garden would really rightly have no areas for smoking, especially as they will interfere with the hot tubs and the cold plunge pools where the regulars would try to increase their muscle strength. P.S. love the opening weekend commentaries, but missed hearing Ali on the mic. Most importantly, it's great to have TCV back. Life feels normal again, Kevin from Wittstable. I was thinking, did you read the quotes from Gary Lennox this week who said that, he said podcast listeners now expect the

podcast every week. He said, you can't take a break from doing the podcast, which I have to say, having, we've just had a break from doing the podcast. So that wasn't necessarily the message I wanted to hear go out. But anyway, it's nice to hear that Kevin is pleased that we're back. But I quite like the description of the pub. Well, after the opening two weekends of TCV, the recovering Dennis needs to go to the recovering dentist. Now for our great glossary of football commentary as we build a collection of commentary terms and phrases Division 1 for football exclusive terms

and last week we added full house and poker into Division 2 as they are terms used in football commentary but also in other sports. Jason in Sydney, Australia has got in touch about one of last week's suggestions Hello gents, welcome back, second season syndrome

has also been used in other sports when talking about a player or a manager joining a new club, a solid Division 2 entry. Hmm. Oh, I see a manager having a good first season and then the second season. Is that what he means?

Joining a new club, but it would have to be... I see, I see, yeah, sorry. It can't be in your second season syndrome can't be in your first season, obviously. Yeah, I understand, Jason. I think we agreed that last week, didn't we, that it's probably another sport. Yes.

Yeah. Two fresh suggestions. We've got this. one from Lesterfan Ash. Dear John Ian and Ali, listening to your podcast has made me realise that I enjoy following sport on the radio far more than I do watching it on television these days. So this season, I've decided to follow my football exclusively on the radio. And I was thoroughly enjoying John's commentary alongside Michael Brown at Brentford. The shorts 23 to 9, aerial jewels, 21.

We can go on about stats, possession, yes, spurs have come into a little bit more on the second half. but at half time, John, we discussed, didn't we? How it was really neck and neck on that? Aerial jewels sounds like a young player who might have been unearthed from Bolivia, doesn't he? Ash says, as an airline pilot, I tend to avoid aerial jewels for an easy life, but I'll be listening to the podcast all over the world

at all hours of the day as I negotiate the trials and tribulations of jet lag. I suspect aerial duel would be a division two entry given that the term probably gets plenty of use in basketball, volleyball and other sports. Keep up the good work and long-live radio commentary. Here, here, Ash, thank you for the correspondence. I suspect actual aerial duels probably went out with the Red Baron, didn't they? So probably wise for Ash not to get involved in those. Nice to have an airline pilot listening, Ian.

Our friend James is an airline pilot as well, isn't he? He, yeah, I think is an occasional listener to the commentator's view. Yes, he is, yes. And also Anthony and Cork picked that one out as well and says, Ariel Jewel would be a solid contender for Division 2. Yeah, definitely Division 2. And I presume this is Langers from Andover says, Hello, John, Ian and Ali.

Love the insight you bring to the podcast. A word for the glossary, which I don't think has been said. And says Langers, this comes from Mark Scott. at Ipswich Sunderland for match of the day. The last time these two faced each other in the Premier League, Ipswich romped to their biggest ever win in the division when they smashed Sunderland 5-0 here a quarter of a century ago. Langer says romp is probably a division two term,

but the only other sport I can think of is how you can romp home in horse racing. What do you think? And I think, yeah, it's definitely a division two, isn't it? Romped. Yeah. Yeah. Great media word, isn't it?

Romp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Had an entirely different meaning in the tabloid newspapers of the 1980s, but we probably don't need to dwell on that. Sadly, we didn't, sadly we didn't see many horses romp when we went to the York Ebor meeting last week.

But I forgot to give a shout out ahead of the new season to the Jones boys, Declan, Eamon, Liam. Tim, Danny, Jez and Ben, Dave, brother-in-law and Kieran, who's the mate. All the best for the coming season. That's from Declan Jones. So sorry we didn't get to see you, and I hope you had more success than we did. Just to finish on the glossary then, guys, just to sum it up. Second season syndrome, we're all agreeing definitely a div 2. Yep. Aerial Jewel, I think it has to be a div 2 as well. And romp, romp terrific, but also div 2. that means, I think,

we're only two episodes into the new season, but we're still waiting for our first Division I entry of the new season. So there's a challenge for you. Oh, and here's one for you two chaps. It's just reminded me of this, actually. We were doing quite a lot of, I don't know if you do this on your summer holidays

with our family. We were doing header rallies with a volleyball in the pool, so standing sort of waist deep in the shallow end and seeing how many headers you could put together before the rally falls down. And I have to congratulate my brother and his son Max on breaking the family record this summer and getting to 226 headers,

which I think's good. That's very good. It is good, isn't it, John? I think that might have anything to do with your ear infection. It's got a lot to do with my ear infection. But one of the things I was teaching the boys, not my brother so much, because he's only a couple of years younger than me,

and so has been there, seen it, heard it, done it, and all the rest, was heading back and across the goalkeeper, heading the cross back where it came from. You know the idea is the goalkeepers coming across the line to his left and the cross has come in from the left, so you head it back the other way, so he's wrong-footed and whatever.

And my son Rory and my nephew, Max, sort of said, I've never heard that. I've never heard that. I said, oh, come on. That will be said every single weekend of the season. I said, you know, the next time you're listening or watching a game, message me as soon as you hear that. That will be said it.

You know, that's a classic glossary for me. Yes. Also, back and to the left is, reminds me of our trip to Daly Plaza during the summer. Dealey Plaza. Yeah, that's the key moment, isn't it, in that Oliver Stone film with the Zubrida film? Yeah, back and to the left. Back and to the left. Yeah.

So that's it then, isn't it? Oh, we haven't had John's hooray? No. No. Apparently you only get the hooray if it's a Div 1 entry. Oh, I see. So the, yeah, stick in the carrot this season. Right, okay.

So Division 2 entries, thank you very much and keep them coming in. But Division 1 will get you a John Murray hooray. And I think that's right, because it's quite special that. So that's a good introduction. So producer Nathan is running a tight ship this season, isn't they? Only hurrays for Division 1 entries and only the one unintended pub name of the week. So that concludes episode. two of season three of the TCV. So John, enjoy your weekend. And Ali, enjoy your weekend behind the mic presenting

five-life sport. Thank you very much. Questions and correspondence, always welcome any time to TCV at BBC.com. Or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08,289-369. And the next episode of the Football Daily will be Tom Greenin in conversation with the Coventry boss Frank Lampart. Greg. Grenin, isn't it? I think he's changed his name this season like Savio, Ian. I think it was Greenan,

he's changed it to Grenon, I think. You could go and see Tom Greenan with the courtineers. So as they go in, up and down the league. This is five-life sports. It's all eight of the lights and fit to the floor.

To ball him! It's not to stop out. Everyone's standing around the 18th three. Overhead come! He shows to the centre! He'll do it! Greatest sporting events. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire, and You're Dead to Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription.