Football Daily - TCV Q&A: Lip mics, ‘freakers’ & facing criticism

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball answer listener questions. From why they still use lip mics to how they deal with criticism… do they still go to game as fans? And which data do they find most useful/useless? Messages, questions and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]01:05 Lip mics and why commentators still use them, 07:20 How they find out which matches they’re doing, 10:00 Working with different summarisers, 19:10 Seeing too much flesh in commentary, 22:00 Avoiding venting personal views in commentary, 26:20 5 Live commentaries this weekend, 27:50 Do the commentators ever watch as fans? 34:40 Which data are the most useful/useless? 44:00 Does criticism affect their commentaries? 47:20 Which TV programmes would they do?5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Fri 1945 England v Uruguay with John Murray, Ian Dennis & Paul Robinson, Sat 1330 Man Utd v Man City in WSL with Mike Minay & Lindsay Johnson, Sun 1200 Chelsea v Aston Villa in WSL with Vicki Sparks & Anita Asante.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Channel of joy, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Piledriver, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep. DIVISION TWO 2-0 can be a dangerous score, Asterisk, Back on the grass, Ball stays hit, Beaten all ends up, Blaze over the bar, Business end, Came down with snow on it, Catching practice, Camped in the opposition half, Cauldron atmosphere Coat is on a shoogly peg, Come back to haunt them, Corridor of uncertainty, Couldn’t sort their feet out, Easy tap-in, Daisy-cutter, Drubbing, First cab off the rank, Giant-killing, Goalkeepers’ Union, Good leave, Good touch for a big man, Half-turn, Has that in his locker, High wide and not very handsome, Hospital pass, Howler, In the dugout, In the hat, In their pocket, Johnny on the spot, Lackadaisical, Leading the line, Leather a shot, Middle of the park, Needed no second invitation, Nice headache to have, No-look pass, Nutmeg, On their bike, One for the cameras, One for the purists, Played us off the park, Points to the spot, Prawn sandwich brigade, Purple patch, Put their laces through it, Queensbury rules, Reaches for their pocket, Rolls Royce, Root and branch review, Row Z, Screamer, Seats on the plane, Show across the bows, Slide-rule pass, Staving off relegation, Steal a march, Sting the palms, Straight in the bread basket, Stramash, Taking one for the team, Telegraphed that pass, Tired legs, That’s great… (football), Thunderous strike, Turns on a sixpence, Walk it in, We’ve got a cup tie on our hands. UNSORTED After you Claude, All-Premier League affair, Aplomb, Bag/box of tricks, Brace, Brandished, Bread and butter, Breaking the deadlock, Bundled over the line, Champions elect / champions apparent, Clinical finish, Commentator’s curse, Denied by the woodwork, Draught excluder, Elimination line, Fellow countryman, Foot race, Formerly of this parish, Free hit, Goalmouth scramble, Honeymoon Period, In and around, In the shop window, Keeping ball under their spell, Keystone Cops defending, Languishing, Loitering with intent, Marching orders, Nestle in the bottom corner, Numbered derbies, Opposite number, PK for penalty-kick, Postage stamp, Rasping shot, Red wine not white wine, Relegation six-pointer, Rooted at the bottom, Route One, Sending the goalkeeper the wrong way, Shooting boots, Sleeping giants, Slide rule pass, Small matter of, Spiders web, Stayed hit, Steepling, Stonewall penalty, Straight off the training ground, Taking one for the team, Team that likes to play football, Thruppenny bit head / 50p head, Two good feet, Turning into a basketball match, Turning into a cricket score, Usher/Shepherd the ball out of play, Walking a disciplinary tightrope, Wand of a left foot, Wrap foot around it, Your De Bruynes, your Gundogans etc.

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or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Commentators view on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, this is the Football Daily. John Murray and welcome to this special edition of the commentators view as we five live commentators answer listeners questions this week. Ian Dennis and Alastair Bruce Ball are with us and the mailbag is bulging to use a phrase. Should we put that into the glossary on another edition? The mailbag is bulging. Yeah, I mean you used to hear that sort of thing on swap shop on a Saturday morning, didn't you?

Yeah, or in your, similarly, in your comic. whenever you receive your comic we'd all say the mailbag has been bulging anyway the mailbag has been bulging in a kind of sense TCV at BBC.co.uk WhatsApp and voice notes to 08,289-389-369 always welcome on whatever subject

related to football commentary, sports commentary but in this edition we have a starter for 10 from Louise in Derbyshire I'm really curious to know why you still use the really big mics when you're commentating, it feels like in this day and age there could be something smaller to use. Can you tell me why? Thank you. Well, Louise, that's a very good question. They're actually not so much big mics as lip mics, aren't they? That's what we call them, Coles Lip mics,

and all three of us are holding Coles lip mics to record this very podcast, aren't we, Ian? We are, but it's interesting because when I was at local radio for Leeds and Newcastle, I don't know what it was like for you to, but I used a boom mic, whereas you'd have, you know, like a very similar to the headset you'd see a pilot wear where you've got the mouthpiece coming down connected to one of the ear pieces and then it would just sit in front of your mouth, whereas you physically have to hold this lip mic, obviously it just rests on the upper lip and it cuts out a lot of the noise, whereas the boom mic would attract all sorts of the surrounding noise, the lip mic cuts that out and it's very old school. Exactly and it stops the external noise bleeding in

so that our voices are crystal clear and when you're in big football stadiums in particular you need that but Louise what we've also got because obviously you can hear the sound of the stadium is our sound engineers will have other microphones what we would call effects microphones positioned in certain places to separately pick up that sound and then they mix the two so that the balance is correct. Really good example of this actually John I think is at last year's masters at the Gulf, Brian, our good friend, who commentates for American radio, who stands alongside us on the back row of the grandstand at the 15th Green,

actually complained to me on the Saturday that basically my booming voice went all across the USA when Rory McElroy hit a stunning second shot into the 15th Green. And it's because he wasn't on... I mean, we're not on lip mics there, but he's not on a lip mic there. and I got so carried away and was so close to him that basically all they could hear on American radio was me shouting all over his commentary

and Brian is the loveliest man in the world and it had obviously caused him a bit of a problem and I felt terrible about it but I stood a little further away from him on the Sunday. That's not usually a complaint we would get at the Gulf, is it? Your voice carried out too far. But I think as well, just to further answer Louise's question, I think, and actually we should get one of our engineers on, shouldn't we,

onto the commentator's view podcast at some stage, just to talk about this aspect of what we do because they're absolutely a pivotal part of the team, aren't they? And as I always say, on a Saturday afternoon, if I'm in the car, particularly now, in the world of digital radio, I love listening, Ian, while you're doing the commentary and linking around to other grounds because I think more than ever before now, the different sounds that you get from the different stadiums are so different and, you know, are part of the fabric of the program and how it sounds. And a lip mic is a big part of that because you have your lip mic, but you will also have an effect mic out as well, which captures the more wider sound of the football

stadium in which you're working. But my personal feeling is that the lip mic, the lip mic, as opposed to the headset where you've got an open mic as you described Ian, I think the quality is significantly better with a lip mic in terms of what comes out of the radio as opposed to the open mic from the headset. It is and you can also tell when people are doing it off tube because the sound is too clear and therefore there is no substitute for actually being inside the stadium and that is where I think the lip mic just brings that authentic sound to a commentary.

And just on the brilliant job that all our engineers do, it reminded me Tanya was with me in Germany doing Leverkusen against Arsenal and Tanya is not a massive football fan. She works on lots of other different events like live music

in particular that she has a passion for and really enjoys. But I think a lot of people would presume right, you're working on the football, you love football. But Tanya actually is concentrating on her element of the job but doesn't particularly,

doesn't particularly enjoy. enjoy the football necessarily. And it also reminded me, John, do you remember Jefferson in Brazil, who was one of our fixers, who was a very interesting chap, who wasn't massively into his football for a young Brazilian man. Again, you just presume that everyone's into the football. And I remember him sitting in a press room at one game. Brazil were playing live in the World Cup.

He had a ticket to go and watch the game, and he decided to read his book down in the media cafe rather than watch the football. I couldn't believe that. So there we are. I hope that answers the question, Lou. I actually don't feel right unless I am holding a lit mic for commentary. Can you also, John, I've just, just reminded me of Jefferson and learning his English. And when you left the dinner table, you must tell that story because I love that story.

Jefferson using your phrase. So whenever you leave something quite often, this is brilliant, this is brilliant. Yeah, so with Jefferson, um, there's a phrase, did you know, is that's not. still use it. Now, I've used it for years and years. When it comes to the point where it is time to leave and we need to pay the bill, I do often say, shall we? And Jefferson picked up on this and actually got to the point where he would say, is it now time for shall we? So there's every chance now, in Brazil, there's a whole generation of people who say, shall we, when they mean to leave and get the bill. So I came across it because he worked with different teams. You'd come into his city and then

you'd work with him and you'd been with him. And it was at the end of one meal where he turned to us and he said, and I knew it had come from you. He said, shall we do a shall we? Which I thought was just yes. Great memories. Porto Alegre with Jefferson. Moving on. Spurs fans Sean in Kent, John mentioned one of the questions he gets asked most often is how far in advance do you know what matches you're doing? He said a few weeks but didn't give any further details. How do you find out? Email, call, WhatsApp.

Do you arrange your own travel? John has somebody who does it for him, Sean. And I think you're well placed to answer this one, Ian, because there's nothing you enjoy more than getting a hotel request in early, do you? Well, the thing is, Sean, is that I like to prepare and I like to plan ahead, whereas a certain John Murray is a little bit more laid back, should we say. Lacey Fair? But, I mean, it might be, it'll be different, won't it for all three of us, I guess.

And occasionally, I would ask a question on WhatsApp just to get an update on which summariser I might be with or whatever. But it tends to be a phone call. You know, Ross the boss will get in touch, say, three weeks, maybe at the start of the month, actually, and try and map out your month and where you're going to be and then you start to think about your travel around that. I would book some of my own travel, some of my train tickets and that sort of thing, but it tends to be a mix, doesn't it, I find, really? Yeah.

All of the above. It's a mix, and we have a team, don't we, a BBC sport in the football department who, you know, their job is to look after the arrangements and such like. but I personally like to try and do as much of it as I can myself because then you can make a quick decision, can't you, if you do it that way? So most of my travel, certainly domestically, I will just look after myself.

The other thing, Sean, as well, is that when Ali and John are doing games on a Sunday, they will know the standout game at 4.30 or the particular fixture at 2 o'clock. Regarding the Saturday 3 o'clock, the early parts of the season, we have to nominate that game two weeks in advance, and then sometime in the new year

it goes to a 10-day notice and then in the very latter stages from the start of April we have to give the Premier League five days notice for what is going to be our Saturday 3 o'clock game to give us a greater degree of flexibility as there's obviously so much riding on it as you get towards the latter stages

of the Premier League season but that will hopefully give you more of a time frame as to when the Premier League games need to be designated for a 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon. Yeah, so basically, Denner, you know throughout the season, don't you, that Saturday, three o'clock, that is your gig. If you're working, you're there. As it gets towards the end of the season, your travel plans will be made a bit later.

I can see Sean goes on to say, actually, when do you find out who your summariser will be? Do you have much contact ahead of the match? That's a good question with the summariser, and is sometimes when you turn up at the stadium the first time you've ever met or spoken to them. I think I probably learned it from you too when I started out, but a phone call to the summariser, day before or a couple of days before the game. You know, at a major tournament, obviously we're with them all the time and we spend a load of time with them, but that's such a useful thing to do, isn't it, John? Just to, A, remind each other that you're both going to the game, but actually just,

just have a chat. Particularly if it's someone you've never worked with before, whereas I do always like to spend some time on the day of the match. If we've never worked together before, just to have a chat about how it's going to work together and I think that that helps probably to put them at ease as well just to get an idea of how this is actually going to work. I had that recently with Rachel Corsi who I've got to say it was a pleasure to work with but we just sat down at St James's Park and I said this is what you know the penalty area is mine any other time we just keep chatting in between to be nice

and relax don't take us I don't take myself too seriously and we got on really really well and Hopefully I'll be working with many more times as well because I've got to say I really enjoyed a company. You take yourself seriously over clash of the commentators. I know that much. I always remember going over to Brazil for the World Cup in 2014 and my first couple of games were with Brad Friedel. But we had two days together before our first game to get accredited

and spend a bit of time together. And that was absolutely invaluable because it meant by the time you got on air, we got to know each other a little bit and not only discuss the sort of intricacies like you're talking there, of how it's going to work technically and how you're going to commentate together

but actually I sort of worked out where I could go with him, where we could have a bit of fun, what our common interests were, you know, when something dips in the game and, you know, they all have different personalities and will operate in different ways.

So I always think that time off air and the longer you work with someone, obviously the better rapport you're going to build. Do you know what? I think I'm right in saying that I had never met or spoken to Chris Sutton before we actually worked together for the first time.

I'm right in saying. Which was, if I'm remembering right, it was an FAA Cup match between Colchester and Tottenham. I think that was the first time that we'd actually spoken together. My first time with Chris Sutton was rather awkward actually because

he'd said something on Twitter about Scott Sinclair when he was a Celtic player should be in the England squad, to which I replied. I mean, there was never any chance of Scott Sinclair ever getting anywhere near the England squad. And I put, you know, I dismissed his suggestion to which he quoted it and then retweeted it. So for a long time, I was getting battered by all these Celtic supporters who follow Chris Sutton. And I then had to work with him at Swansea. and it was

I was a little apprehensive I've got to say but I went in with all guns blazing I remember Ian so I think I might have done one or two games with Chris before he and I

ended up spending a lot of time together in Russia and I remember going to meet Chris at Heathrow Airport before flying out to Russia and being I think yeah because of his reputation

of what he was like as a player and with the media whatever slightly apprehensive we sat down had a coffee together for half an hour and I knew within 10 minutes that we were going to have an absolutely

fantastic time and how good he was going to be to work with and he is I mean we all work with him a lot and he's a brilliant tourist as well as being brilliant on air he is great fun to spend time with off air with that in mind Ellie Malcolm from Manchester says I recall

from UEFA competitions you pair people i.e. ABB and Chris Sutton which is always good stuff and just curious as to how it's decided. Hmm. Well, it's above my pay grade. I mean, that was an interesting one, wasn't it, guys,

because that World Cup in Russia provided certain challenges with the logistics. So for that tournament, we were actually paired, weren't we? We stayed as a team with our summariser, producer and our fixer, and then did the whole month together. And very occasionally, we'd all meet up in Moscow,

wouldn't we? Our paths would cross. But you ended up. up commentate with the same person a lot, but we don't always do it that way. No, and I already know ahead of the World Cup in the summer, we are going to have a bit of variety, aren't we, in terms of the summarizers that we'll work with. Yeah, but normally with England, in particular, you have a set England team, don't you, John?

You do, but for example, depending on how the matches fall, and I think this is going to be the same this summer as well, you know, we've had times where, for example, Alan Shearer, if it's not a BBC TV commentary match, and the Euro 2024 semifinal was an example of this, where Alan Shearer would then join our radio commentary team for the semi-final. So for that match, where Matt Upsen had been our England summariser all the way through, it then became Alan and Matt for that match. And I think there might well be an element of that in the coming summer as well. Also from some, you know, our boss's point of view, I would say they compare anyone with anyone

and they know it's going to sound good. I can't think of anyone that I wouldn't want to commentate with on our team. Do you know what I mean? So you can put a team together for a, you know, a spell of time and maybe some of the listeners enjoy listening to that pairing. But, you know, anyone is good with anyone. But I think the answer to the question to Malcolm is it is really essentially an editorial decision, a production and editorial decision who works with who,

and also which summarises are chosen as well. Because I think now one of the things that has quite dramatically changed over the course of the time that I've done this job is the sheer breadth of the number of former footballers who are now willing to think of the media as a genuine second career for them. That wasn't so much the case. and I think it is now quite a desirable thing to do and we will often be asked as well won't we by producers or editors if we have any ideas of who we think

might want to do it and work with us don't we? Yeah I mean quite often I think when you're interviewing players particularly towards the end of their careers and you know the ones stick out don't they who are good talkers as we would say who you think might be good at it. Those are the kind of names you'd put forward. I was able to recruit Thomas Frank for the BBC, for the Euros, for Germany, because we'd had a little get-together, and I said, do you fancy doing any media work, got his agent's number,

and the rest, as they say, is history. Didn't get a commission, though, or a finesse fee. And also, also, sometimes I've found that you end up sitting and working with people that you would never ever have expected would eventually go on to work in the media. I don't think there's any better example of that than Robbie Savage from the time I used to commentate on Robbie. I would never have expected in a hundred years that he would end up working alongside us so often. And as well now, there are some that, you know, we do get asked, don't we? Who do you think might work?

And I know you've worked with Michael O'Neill, Ian. And, you know, Michael's got his hands full at the moment with two jobs, never mind working in the media. But, you know, I always think that he's someone who I'd really like to work alongside. I think he's got a great deal to offer. And on a similar theme, Northern Ireland, Wales, also falling into the category of someone that you would have thought, well, I wouldn't imagine that we'd ever work alongside him. I think Craig Bellamy would be an excellent summariser. I think he would have lots to say. There was a funny story with Michael O'Neill very briefly, because I'd worked with him at Newcastle, and I was sat down.

in our comic position at St. James's Park and then maybe a couple of years later, I'd finished a game in Madrid, did the game with Chris Waddle. And of course, he and Chris would have played together, I'm sure, at Newcastle. So I went up to Michael at the bar, and I said, oh, Michael, I said,

Ian Dennis, five live. And he sort of like took a step back, looked me up and down, and went, you're tall, aren't you? And I went, yeah, but we have worked together. He said, yeah, but he said, you were sat down. I never realized how big you were.

He didn't say that to me. Okay, this is a fun one. Matt in York has got in touch and he says, did you hear what the commentator said during the Six Nations game between Italy and Scotland when a player suffered the misfortune to have his shorts and undergarments slip southwards? Challenging most of the Scottish line at the sound,

Zandamine is huge for six foot eight seconds. Oh, hello. I said it was night-time right now. It is both waxing and waning. Okay, Scotland used. Anyway, Scotland on the attack again, in good position. Andrew Cotter in good form. And Matt says, I just wondered if any of you chaps

have ever seen a little bit too much during a game and had to search for a good euphemism. That's a great example, though, isn't it, of... It'd be great to get Andrew Cotter on this podcast because I do think he is one of the very best commentaries that is quickness of thought that, to come up with the Bon Moe without making it too obvious. Television's a different thing, isn't it? He doesn't have to describe what he's seeing there.

People can see it. So you then need to add, you know, add the phrase, the right words to it. But I do think he is a genius, Andrew. He's a brilliant commentator. I mean, we've had time, not so much recently, but, you know, in times past, because it just doesn't seem to happen so often anymore. but the era of the streaker seems to have been consigned

to history and that reminds me of the great test match special commentary with John Arlett when this was one of the first streakers wasn't I think it was an Ashes test match and the guy runs on with no clothes on and hurdles the stumps and John Arlott says

it's a freaker it's a freaker it's a freaker a freaker and he's a And he describes how the policeman, how the policeman comes on to the field and catches him and takes him in a day. And I think he's seen his last cricket for the day.

And a freaker. We've got a freaker down the wicket now, not very shapely, and it's masculine. And I would think it's seen the last of its cricket for the day. The police are mustard, so are the cameramen, and Greg Chappell. and now he's had his load he's being embraced by a blonde policeman and this may be his last public appearance but what a splendid one

the use of the use of the i mean we talk about that all the time in this pod don't we but the use of language bill mcclarum was another one who just had a brilliant turn of phrase i can't think of any you know examples like that but things i remember someone's i think someone's boot came off and he talked about someone losing a slipper like that which i just thought it's just so you know it's just just different isn't it It's just such a skill. James in Brighton says. I was at the Brighton Arsenal match, as were you, Ali, weren't you? Yeah. I remember rightly. And James says, frankly,

I want Arsenal to give me my money back. I've got no problem with the fact they won. But the manner of the goal seemed to so discombobulate the Arsenal players, it made them so dizzy that they couldn't stand up afterwards. And I'm sure I saw Raya take a nap when he went down. at the hour mark. Arsenal will be worthy champions, says James. But thank goodness I don't have to watch 11 millionaires

fall down for 90 minutes every week. As commentators, whether you're for or against Arsenal or any other team's style of play, how do you avoid your personal views entering your commentary? Which is a very good question, actually, from James, after he's vented his spleen there. Or, says James, do you vent it in the pub afterwards? Or maybe it's not.

such an issue for you since you watch so much football and have probably seen every sort of tactic in your time. Just before we answer that excellent question on the first part of that, all teams do that and I think James knows that and Arsenal are there to be shot at the moment and I'm, you know, I'm no Arsenal fan but that was particularly fueled by Fabian Hertzler talking about Arsenal in the week in the run up to the game and as soon as anything happened that night the Brighton fans were on top of Arsenal, which exaggerated it even more. I know what James is talking about, you know, and it does go on. Teams get ahead and they do it, but it's extremely frustrating to watch.

It's extremely frustrating when it's against your team, but it's not just Arsenal who do that. What about, Denno, what would you say about the personal views entering your commentary? I think you've got to just commentate on how you see it. recently and a recent Champions League game, I thought the refereeing from the Italian Newcastle United Barcelona was weak and I thought that two Barcelona players should have been booked and I was quite forthright in my opinion with that. I always find a greater difficulty on social media

regarding personal opinions. Whereas I think when you're doing a commentary, you're very much off the cuff, aren't you? You're reacting to what you've seen. Yeah, it's an interesting line to tread as well, isn't it? because obviously we, during a commentary, we have a summariser with us, and their job is very much to not only provide the insight,

but bring the opinion. But I think our listeners know we have watched plenty of football over the years, and I think, you know, they don't want us just to be bland. And I know our main job is to describe the action, but they want opinion and how we see it as well, don't they? Yeah, I think so. I think it's impossible not to,

because we're watching sport, we're commentating on it, but we're watching sport, and the emotion is such a big part of that, isn't it? It's almost impossible not to something happens that you feel deserves comment,

but it comes back to the basics of our journalistic training, isn't it? That you want to be fair and as impartial as you can be. So as long as it's fair comment, then you know, you are staying within the bounds of our terms of employment.

Yeah, and it's about being professional. Yeah, I mean, and there is a divide. James asked the question, you know, do you have ended your feelings in the pub afterwards? Well, that's good to be for us, as commentators, there has to be a very clear dividing line between what you would say on I and what you would say in the pub afterwards. Yeah, I mean, not everyone would know this, but, you know, I've been an Ipswich town fan for a long time ever since I was a kid and I'm not, you know, I support them from afar now

and I look out for their result and whatever, but I commentated on them in the Premier League last season and I don't think anyone could accuse me of bias. I mean, you're more likely to go the other way. You're more likely to go against your own team than for your own team. I mean, in all the years I've been doing this job, they've not been in the Premier League very much

so it's not really been much of a problem, sadly. Before we do more listeners questions, just a moment to tell you about some of our Five Life commentaries this weekend. If you are listening to this on Friday, the day of release, at 745, it will be England, Uruguay from Wembley, the friendly international. Saturday, 1.30, Manchester United, Manchester City at Old Trafford in the WSL. Then we'll be going around the grounds in League 1 and League 2. and on Sunday at midday more WSL as Chelsea play Aston Villa. But lots and lots of commentary on all of those various internationals and I think some of the World Cup playoffs as well are absolutely fascinating.

So you hear all of that covered on 5 Live and BBC Sounds. New Rules. We race live on BBC Sounds. Five Life Sports. Their company's success helped build a nation. The company is such a big part of Korea's economy. But who are the family behind one of the world's tech giants? The major corporate empire that we now know today. Samsung.

Inheritance Samsung from the BBC World Service explores the real-life dramas of the Lee family. There's a succession style drama underneath of all this. Inheritance Samsung. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcast. The commentator's view on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Right, Ian's got to shoot, so goodbye to Ian, and we will do this one from another Ian in Ellesmere Port. Dear TCV, I was amused in a recent edition of the podcast to hear John Murray say that he was present at the coupon busting match between Harrogate Town and Cambridge United. Assuming that attending a League 2 basement team's home match was not an official football.

five live assignment for the chief? Very good Ian. Could it be that John attended the match as a regular fan? I love the idea that even after a bi-weekly regime of Premiership, Champions League and international commentaries, John's enthusiasm for football is still strong

enough to want to watch League 2 football in his downtime. I'd like to ask the team, how often do each of them manage to attend a game as a regular paying fan? Are you still able to lose yourself in the game or are you still commentating along in your or searching for apt phrases that could be used in a future live commentary,

have you ever forgotten yourself and burst out into commentary mode despite not having a microphone in hand? John? Very much no, the answer to the last question. And also, no, I'm not standing there commentating along in my head either. But, you know, recently you went to watch Six Nations, didn't you? I mean, I love to go watch. In the summer, I love...

I love going to watch county championship cricket, which has become a real thing for me over the course of recent years when I get the opportunity. And I enjoy going to pay to stand on the terraces. And I enjoy experiencing that and seeing what it's like and what people do. Well, first and foremost, I'm going to see the football match. But how people are, what they do.

I think it's important. to remember what it's like to be there as a football fan and standing on the terraces. And actually, I think I've mentioned it on here a couple of times, but what's become a personal tradition now for me is right at the start of the season to pick a match in the very first weekend of the FA Cup, so the extra preliminary round.

And I've done that now for a number of scenes. It tends to be the weekend before the Community Shield, and I really enjoy that. And also that is great value, whereas I find League 2 football is expensive. I think that is costly for a ticket. Obviously, there are various ways and schemes, and whether it's a season ticket or whatever it happens to be, that you can make it cheaper.

But if you're buying one-off match for a League 2 game, I think that's quite expensive. And even that point in itself, John, I think is a really interesting one because it is very easy to forget what it's like for a match-going fan and how much it costs. because we are paid to go and commentate on football and actually just reminding yourself of that and the travel and the food and the tickets and the programs,

whatever level you're watching at and the commitment that fans put in. Yeah, I think that's really important. I mean, I like you, I don't get to too much. One of my favourite things in life, and it's a completely different level, is actually watching my son play football and play rugby and play his sport.

There's nothing I love more than that. that's a completely different sort of sporting experience. But I adore that. But also actually taking him to Salisbury City locally. I mean, he's chosen Tottenham Hotspur as his team, which I warned him, I did warn him. But, you know, having taken into a couple of games there, which is obviously a completely different level,

has also been, you know, has also been great fun. But more of that, really watching him. He might be starting to. follow Tottenham at just the right time. Could be decades of, decades of relentless and never-ending success ahead of. Yeah. Yeah, but watching him take it all in

and see it for the first time has been a great joy. But I also, like you, John, I love live sport, whether working at it or a... So, you know, like you say, I went to the Six Nations game. That's something I do once a year with a couple of pals. We pick an England game. This year we went over to Rome. And a lot of that, obviously, is about a couple of days away,

having fun in Rome, which is, I mean, it was a brilliant weekend. The sun shone. There were 20,000 England fans in the city, not a hint of trouble. Italy won the game. I'm not that invested in England's performances that that really bothered me. It was brilliant to celebrate with the Italians, but just the experience of being at live sport is one of my favorite things to do. And if there's a chance to relax and do it without having to think about work, you know, all the better. Yeah. When we, you were in the incredible Italian capital and everything that it has to offer. Did you go to the bar that Ian Dennis recommended, which was, what was its name again? The Camden Town.

I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't go there. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I thought you would save that for another trip. I've told this, John, I've told. I don't know what the crossover is between our listeners on the commentator's view. and the FPL podcast from BBC Sport probably a huge crossover there

so I have told this story I'll tell it very briefly here just in case people are hearing it for a second time on the final whistle so you could obviously see Italy we're about to win the game in the Stadio Olimpico we were sitting amongst quite a lot of Italian fans and we've been just chatting to them

during the game and talking about what a historic win it could possibly be and I thought I'm going to film this I'm going to film the full-time whistle and the reaction in the stands around me because I think this is going to be really interesting so the whistle goes and I pass round and it was brilliant they're cavorting around and you know cock a hoop and dancing and singing and then one of the chaps who i've been chatting to a bit during the game i focused the camera

in on him for a close-up because he was really lost in the moment and he spotted me and he looked straight at the camera and then unleashed this stream of italian invective towards me as an england fan which i think i think was done in good humor but it was it was a brilliant sort of moment to capture them in them enjoying their win Yeah. And actually, going back to the question from Ian, one of the things that I really do enjoy about actually going there just as a normal paying member of the public is, you know, week in, week out, matching after match out, we have to be there hours in advance. And I really enjoy pitching up just as the teams are coming out and getting into position and seeing the start of the match and leaving straight. after as well and not having to hang around for hours afterwards as well. So yeah.

Right. Next contribution is a voice note and it comes from Matt from Redford. Hi, TTV team. Thank you for keeping me company during my Saturday morning walks throughout the season. I'm a huge data nerd and with the recent boom in statistical data available to everybody, I was wondering what pieces of data do you find as commentators to be the most useful and the most useless when trying to analyse football matches

before, during and after. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, it's changed massively, hasn't it? Particularly probably in the last 10 years of all of the various data that there is. And, you know, I think my answer to that is what can translate on the radio for us as radio commentators

during the course of a match where, as you know, people are tuning in to hear what's happening in the match, who's winning, who's winning, losing who's playing well who's not what of that information are people going to be able to take in and of course they very often involve numbers and I think what it is whatever it is it's got to be something that people can take in quickly and it will make an impact yeah I agree John it's got to add to what you're describing

because I think particularly in radio I think radio and television is slightly different and obviously TV can put stats up that you can read what while you're watching as well. But I think there's a danger in a radio commentary of actually forgetting to describe what you're seeing, which is our primary purpose of being there. And then you've done all this work. I did it for the Lava Cousin Arsenal game recently,

where I really sort of got stuck into the history of Lava Cousin in the Champions League and all of that. And there's sort of inside you, you want to deliver some of that knowledge, partly because you've worked quite hard putting it together, but also because you find it interesting. But actually, always reminding yourself that while the live football is on,

we're there to commentate on the live football and I totally agree with you it's got to be a digestible stat and something that adds what you're describing that tells the story that's just not superfluous I mean I know the one you and I

and I'm going to be a bit careful here because Matt from Rettford there described himself as a data nerd so I think he's obviously a fan of the stats the one you and I Chortle at occasionally is the win predictor

so-and-so's got such a chance of doing that I mean I will never never go anywhere near those. That's not one. You know, because I can see what I'm watching, whether it's in game or in a title race. I know. I know who's got the best chance here.

I've looked, you know, that one is a silly one, I think. Yeah. They're very clever, the people who are behind those because they make them available. And the fact is that commentators, you know, we're all guilty of this, commentators are always looking for things that they can use. And they know that.

And yet, and of course, cricket is so guilty of this with the win-vis percentage chance and and we see it you know it's now part of football as well and it's just that it's just that thing about you know Arsenal have now got a 95.5% chance of winning the Premier League as a what as opposed to a 95.4% or a 95.6% so what is it that's making that? And also, the fact remains, even if they have got a 95% chance of winning the league, that means there's a 5% chance that they don't win the league, i.e., they're probably going to win the league, but they might not.

That's what it's saying to you. That's what those things are saying to you. Yeah, and I think we've also got to be careful about context of stats sometimes. I'm not talking necessarily some of the in-depth data that Matt's talking about, but you know sometimes you'll see one that Brentford haven't won at, Aston Villa for 75 years. Yeah, but they've only played them three times in those 75 years.

So the headline is good, but what it actually means is, you know, you have to make sure that you make that clear, I think, which is why when you find a good stat, you know, something that really sort of surprising, again, I'll go back to the Lavakuzan Arsenal, and it obviously makes sense this one,

but I spotted that Lavercouzen had only lost two of their last 19 home games in Europe, and the only two teams that have beaten them, were Paris Saint-German and Bayern Munich. So it basically says to me, you've got to be a pretty good team to beat them at home in recent times, which makes sense, because under Jabi Alonzo,

they did the double in the Bundesliga. Some of that football was in the Europa League as well, so there's context to that too. But, you know, I thought that was quite, you know, PSG and Byn are the only two teams that have won here in about three and a half years in a series of 19 games. I think that's worth pointing out.

Yeah, and also, I think, I'm conscious of fact you've got to be careful with jargon in that, you know, our generation might be very well aware of what some of the current jargon that is used in terms of football facts and statistics are concerned. But, you know, maybe a large proportion of our listeners won't be so familiar with that. But also, John, actually, and you and I have both done a bit of Arsenal recently, you know, the set piece stats that are now available to us. I mean, those are invaluable the way Arsenal are, you know, so proficient at that this season and who's not good at defensive. against them. That's really useful, that is. I agree.

So that from Matt in Redford, who also asks, as a fan of football shirts, I was wondering what the team's favourite and least favourite football shirts of all time are. Also, are there any shirts that prove tricky when commentating due to not being able to clearly make out the squad

number or player name on the back? It's a shame that Ian has had to, Ian's got the... Ian's had to leave this podcast. He's had to leave the podcast because he's got something else to do. We must ask him this question. Not in disgrace.

No, no, he hasn't been set off. We've not brandished a red card at him. But Ian will love to answer this question. So let's make a note to ask him this. However, you can answer it first. Yeah, I mean, one that I remember in particular, Reading at the Medeski in a certain period when they were in the Premier League

and you were high up at the Medeiski Stadium and I think the numbers were red but they didn't have a panel on the back so you just couldn't make them out and the blue and white hoops so they were difficult I've had Newcastle I've had problems with at times but the players are really quite

recognizable there so that's less of an issue Celtic had been tricky before what about you John Celtic in the period where they didn't actually have the numbers on the shirts they just had them on the shorts that was tricky I've got so many stories about not being able to see the numbers

I think the classic FAA Cup tie when the non-league team has striped shirts with numbers on the back and that's virtually impossible. But I think possibly my most memorable one of these sort of incidences was this was at the old Atlago Madrid Stadium, the Vicente Calderon,

when Atlatico Madrid were playing Liverpool and it was a time when Atlago Madrid had a lot of players who looked very similar. So they were similar-ish height, short back and sides, And I remember them, we were sitting high up at the back of the stand. And as they walked out, they were walking away from us.

And I'm looking down at their shirts. And I don't know whether they were special shirts or one-off shirts or whatever. I can't remember. I remember looking at the shirts and thinking, I can't see any of those numbers on the shirts. They were indecipherable on the back of their shirts. That was a really tough commentary. Yeah.

I think then, though, John, you use your experience, don't you? You go to, sometimes you have to just go a bit generic, the Athletic go, you know, clear from their left back position. Obviously, when a player scores, you need the name of the player, but there are ways to get around not being able to identify every single player at every single moment. Favorite shirts? I've just been in Italy, and I do love an Italian football shirt.

I mean, I saw a lot of Roma shirts. I do love the Roma shirt. And Fiorentina, who are my team in Italy. It's so distinctive that color. There's so few teams that play in that sort of color. In terms of old... I mean, I'm quite retro. If I was going to buy a football shirt, John, I'd go retro.

I love, you know, my team Ipswich Town, going to the early 80s. They had a lovely... It was sponsored by Pioneer, and it was a white pinstripe in the blue. Oh, that was a great shirt. But I also like the ones with the... You know, occasionally teams now go back to the retro. Crystal Palace did it with the sash, the diagonal sash, across the front of the...

I do like those ones. I do like that. That's interesting because the kit I was going to mention was that Crystal Palace kit, the white kit with the red and blue diagonal stripe across the front. That was a high quality football kit. And a bit like you with Italy, I've always liked the Argentina shirt. I think the blue and white stripes. The national ones, John, I mean, the Italian one again.

I mean, the classic Brazil is fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, we must remember to ask Ian that question, and I'm going to think of a few more in the short term. So yes, thank you very much. Matt, for those questions. Let's have this one from Max, from Hailing Island, near Portsmouth. Hey, guys, love the podcast. Does anyone ever told you before that it's the perfect company on a dog walk? With social media now giving everyone the platform for an opinion,

I did wonder how, if at all, this has affected your work? Do you see the criticism online? do you use it to improve or do you just ignore it completely? And crucially, have you ever altered your style based on anything that you've either seen online or in print? Which is a great question from Max. I'm sure we've all got an answer on that. My personal feeling is that for a long time,

I didn't use social media and then I was encouraged to do it. and from that point on, you know, you would see reaction to what you've done. And I've personally found that the reaction did influence me, and I was not comfortable with that. I felt that I've been influenced by what people were saying, and therefore was actually straying a little from the way I wanted to and would naturally have commented because I was conscious of that.

And actually, I made a conscious decision to then not look at any, reaction to anything that I put on social media and I have pretty much stuck to that since then and I feel much more comfortable from doing that. On a slightly lighthearted note on that front on not being aware of what's going on on social media,

I do remember commentating on cricket in India probably a few months after I'd gone on to Twitter for the first time for sort of work purposes and I was sitting next to Simon Mann in a commentary box and he was asking me about my experiences and the feedback and whatever and I said, what feedback? What are you talking about? I'm not in contact with anyone on Twitter. He said, have you not seen, he said, particularly working in football,

where it's so tribal, I'm really surprised you've not got stick from football fans for this, that and the other. I went honestly, I've not, no, I said, I must be the most unpopular guy in the world. I've never seen anything. He said, you'd never touch that button, have you? And I touched the notifications button, and about 4,000 messages appeared.

And some of them really unsavory, just, you know, having listened to football. Well, I wish, it was Pandora's, but I wish I'd never opened it or touched that button. I mean, it's not healthy, is it? You don't go looking for that, and I always go back to the words. Because sometimes people will say lovely things about what you've been saying, what you've been doing, and sometimes they won't. And I always go back to, you know, Rob Noff,

and we've mentioned him plenty of times on this pod before, who's given me so many brilliant sort of, you know, tips and excellent guidance on, on commentary and just said, you know, it's never as good as you think it was, it's never as bad as you think it was. It's always somewhere in the middle, and I try not to pay any attention to it, really. And, you know, as I said at the outset, my feeling is I don't want to be straight jacketed by noise and criticism from outside. I want to do this in the way that I want to do it. And people might like it, people might not like it, but we try to do it to the best of our ability, don't we?

And I think that that criticism, that noise from outside does affect you. Yeah. Let's finish with this one. from Joseph in Enfield, who says, Dear Ali, John and Ian, with Guy Mowbray is the voice on gladiators and Jonathan Pace in Robot Wars, as he was telling us on a previous edition

of the commentator's view, and even Dionne Dublin headlining Homes Under the Hammer, is there a TV programme that you would like to feature on? I'm guessing, Ali is a repair shop type of guy, whilst John and Ian

would debate over master the mind or top of the pogs and Joseph says I presume hair Chapman would do the weakest link self-explanatory really brilliant as always he's yeah so Mark's appeared on a few recently hasn't he mark was on would I lie to you and Michael McIntyre's what's that's that the wheel is that one called where he gets spun around he was he was on that recently I mean I I I have he been running through thee because Normally he's quite a... Yeah.

Normally he's sort of... Celebrity Master's Chef. I think it would be another one in the locker. Right. Yeah, yeah. I think John... I mean, the repair shop, that's a good one. It would be quiz for me,

although I'd want to be the quiz master. I love her. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would like to do. Yeah. Yeah. I think...

I've seen Connor do celebrity mastermind and do really well, but given our experiences, and Clash the commentators, I know I would not perform well under that sort of pressure. I just wouldn't be good at that, but asking the questions. What would your specialities? Specialists, I'd be something 80s, John. It'd be something maybe 80s film related, I think.

Italian films? No, crikey, no, I wouldn't have a chance of that. What about Ian? What could you see Ian appearing on as a voice? What could he narrate? Do you remember the indoor league? If they brought that back, do you remember Fred Truman used to present it? Right.

Ian would be good at that. The chap who used to, I probably should know his name, but narrate Big Brother was, I think that's sort of Northumbrian Geordy bits. So sometimes, because it always made me think of you actually. Yeah. They're sort of dear four in the Big Brother house. I obviously can't do the accent, but... There is a vacancy on House of Games at the moment, isn't there?

Is there? I didn't know that. that would be. No, okay. Okay, we're just loving that out. Pastures new. Good questions. Enjoyed those.

Yeah, no, very good. Yes, and we'll do that again. So if you've got any of, if you've got any of those, we will be doing these on a regular basis. You know, anything that you want to ask us about football commentary, etc., etc. And as I always say, remember, the idea is that we do the best of our work when we're actually commentating on football matches. So do tune in to all of our various commentaries on Five Live and BBC Sounds. That is it for this episode. And those questions should be sent to TCV at BBC.com.uk on the email.

Or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08,289-289369. And remember, you can find each and every episode of the commentator's view by scrolling down your football daily feed. What about you on sheepdog trials? You have one man and his dog or something? I could hear you do. Come by. Come by. I'm Rich Hall

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