Football Daily - TCV: Tuchel goes swimming, ‘Bonjaman’ & Man City guilty

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

John Murray & Ali Bruce-Ball are joined by Conor McNamara to chat commentator life. Hear from Jordan Pickford & Thomas Tuchel. Catch archive commentary of Conor doing an England game as well as the guys favourite goals they’ve commentated on. And who will take the point in an England-themed Clash of the Commentators? Glossary suggestions and messages welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]02:00 John is in Croatia! 04:55 Thomas Tuchel sunning himself! 09:20 Jordan Pickford on not being picked… 14:00 Hear Conor’s 2008 England comms! 17:25 Ali on WSL commentary… 19:40 Best goals commentated on? 25:50 Commentating as 11-year-olds… 34:20 What punishment should Man City get? 40:00 Clash of the Commentators, 48:30 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1700 Croatia v ENGLAND, Sun 1400 Spurs v London City Lionesses in WSL, Sun 1630 Man City v Arsenal in WSL, Tue 1945 ENGLAND v Czech Republic.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE 50p head Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Backside and elbows, The Beautiful Game, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Buying a penalty, Caretaker manager, Channel of joy, Checked and cleared, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Gone to ground, Grub hunter, Head like a biscuit tin, Head like a sheriff’s badge, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Lollipop, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Need one to get in off their backside, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Parachute payment, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Postage stamp, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Taking it to the corner flag, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, UEFA penalty, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep, You could have two goalkeepers in there and they still wouldn’t have saved it.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's late 2007 and while attending a Christmas party, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg meets a woman who would change the course of his company forever. She joined Facebook as chief of operations in 2008 and has been credited for making the company profitable. And herself enormously rich. On Good Bad Billionaire, we're exploring the life and fortune of billionaire tech leader Cheryl Sandberg. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your podcast. The Commentators View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm John Murray and this is the commentators view where we Five Life commentators talk about the football, our adventures and the language of football commentary.

And with us this week, Mr. Alistair Bruce Ball and also first appearance of the season for Connor McNamara, Connor. Hello. Yeah, Ian's away on. assignment but also possibly he's gone sock shopping the sockless Dennis so so you're in Connor he can never have enough clean socks that guy I mean the thing is you won't know this but like obviously every week I listen I'm driving at the car I'm contributing to the conversation even though you don't hear my contributions but I'm part of this every week it just doesn't get recorded and Ali what have you been doing this week well what have I been doing this week

I'm currently you find me at my desk at home prepping for my commentary this weekend which will onto, which is not on the international scene, but I'm doing Tottenham Hotspur against London City lionesses in the WSL. So Brisbane Road, and I think, John, I can't quite remember, but I, I'm certain I will know when I get there. I've got a feeling it could be a first ever visit to Brisbane Road for me. It's one of those, I can't remember, John. I can't, I can picture it, but can I picture it because I've seen it from pictures and on the telly, or have I actually been there? But I know once I arrive, I'll be able to remember that, I think. That could be one off the list for you then.

It could be. I think it could be one off the list this weekend, yeah. Yeah, well, you need to work that out and tell us next week. I will. How many more you need for the 92? And listen, you need to paint some pictures because you're sitting in the most exotic location of the three of us today. Well, I am. I can't deny that.

And listen, we will obviously get on to Manchester City, which has been the most enormous story of the last week or so. I think we did touch on it last week, didn't we? But first of all, let's talk about the Nations League because that's what we're in the middle of here. And we've actually got an email from Michael in Wellingborough who says, what do you all think of the Nations League? For me, says Michael, credit needs to go where it's due to UEFA, as it's the best concept they've come up with in decades, proper competitive international fixtures in the absence of it being a World Cup or Euros season.

And, well, I'll go first on this because I've said it during our commentaries, that when you think that England, for example, could have been involved in the olden times the start of a European championship qualifying group, very like the World Cup group that they had. I think what would have come after the World Cup would have been lots of questions about where England are under Thomas Tuchel,

but because it's the Nations League and they're playing against this standard of teams, certainly Spain, world champions first match, then that gave you an immediate indicator and that was a very, very enjoyable international. That for me is without doubt the way ahead for international football. And I think if you can adapt the Nations League to providing the qualification for the tournaments, both World Cup and European Championship, in some shape or form, I think that's the way to go.

And plus I really do think it's done this. I think it has given back the sort of value of a cap. And I think for a few years there, people were just being given a game and let's call up enormous squads and try out different people and play two different teams over an international break and stuff like that. and I think now because the games have gotten more of a competitive nature to them I think there is that value to getting an international cap which is as strong as it should be and we also watched a bit of Germany, Serbia where we're staying here in Croatia which is where I am and obviously Germany's winning against Serbia went down very well with the locals they enjoyed that

but where I am is with England so preparing for the third match for England of this international window and I am sitting in the stadium in Rieca, which is very close to the Ottarthia Riviera, which is, as I look to my right here, I can see the Adriatic stretching away to the islands off the coast. The island of Kirk is one of them. And also, in this area, they get the cheese from the island of Pag. So they're not too far away,

and the sun is shining. This coast is spectacular. It is absolutely beautiful. And England have been making the most of this, because England were in Prague. And rather than go home, which they did consider, the England squad flew straight here, and they are staying on the Riviera.

So when I spoke to Thomas Tuchel this afternoon ahead of the match against Croatia, I said, how are things going? You know, with the fact that, you know, it's this extended break so close to them all being together at the World Cup, how are they enjoying? the extended international window and this is what he said.

You see this place and this is the place of earth where we are so there's no reason to complain we are here, we have a strong bond we were just seven weeks together so it feels like almost to be to spend time with friends we are in and we have high level players in camp so we see amazing training sessions

we live right on the on the coast so in the morning we get our swim in the sea The sun is shining, food is perfect, so there's really no reason to complain. We are ready to go. We have an important match. Tomorrow, team trains on a high level and knows about the importance of the fixture. You know, it's just what it is. No one has ever done this long of a camp, so it's a bit of a strange one,

and everything is new and we adapt, but the morale is high, the energy is good and yeah a team is in good spirits have you been in the sea as well yeah of course of course every day

there we are Thomas Tuchel in the Adriatic every morning have you been in John no I haven't but our producer Gary Flintoff

has been in the sea as we have what's your excuse why have you not been in the sea I'm surprised I'm surprised I think as we've previously discussed

I'm not a very good swimmer so I I could go for a paddle, but I wouldn't be doing much more than that. I wouldn't trust myself in the Adriatic. And unfortunately, it is beautiful, but they are stony beaches here, which I'm not a fan of. Oh, okay. I think we're getting to the crux of the matter there. But I was going to say, John, this really sums you up.

If you do something, you have to do it correctly. So, like, you know, anyone else would say, I'm going for a swim, and that means I'm going for a paddle. That means I'm just going to sign. But no, John is like, I'm going with goggles and a stopwatch. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to mark out 100 meters. Do you think what Thomas Tuchel was saying there

about, you know, it's a long time together in the camp? Given that they were together for so long at the World Cup, they've seen an awful lot of each other in the last few months, haven't they? Yeah, that's one thing. I mean, there is quite a churn in this squad because there are so many withdrawals, players who've got injury. So quite a few new players are actually involved

and have played like Alex Scott the other evening. But, you know, again, going back to what Michael in Well, Lengbro was saying this is the pivotal match I think in the group the Croatians see at this way as well it's also going to be

played behind closed doors although not really behind closed doors because between 5,500 and 6,000 school children are able to come into the match so there will be an atmosphere

so they're able to come in complimentary tickets and they will have so many adults with them looking after them and there are 100 England fans in the ground who've been able to get tickets

after the English FAA put in a request for that to be the case. So it's not going to be COVID-style completely empty. So there will be some sort of atmosphere. But in this group, in League A, four teams, if you want to get through to the quarterfinals, you've got to finish in the top two. Obviously, Spain have beaten both England and Croatia over the course of the last week. So this looks very important for both teams in terms of trying to get that second place in the group and qualifying for the two-legged quarter-final in March,

which I think is also a very good addition to this competition. And that is very well explained, John. and if we were going to pick up on Michael's question about the Nations League, we always say this, don't we? About any sport we cover. But the best sport needs great narratives. You need to care about it. You need to buy into a story. And, you know, as Connor said, it's a competitive fixture.

But yes, it's precisely that, as in England off the back of the World Cup, and all the disappointment of losing in the semi-final. You made the point last week. This is a really important tournament for Thomas Tuchel. But the fact they're actually playing for something, like you say, playing for a top top. to finish in the group to then get to a two-legged knockout quarterfinal, that gives people something to buy into.

And that brings the interest. That is why it's, I think, so much better than what's gone before. And we've also got a chance to listen to Jordan Pickford, the England goalkeeper. Still, England's number one is the message that we've had from Thomas Tuchel and his coaches, even though he's not played in the last two matches. James Trafford has played. So Jordan Pickford, 91 caps, but for him, a different experience in this England squad, having to sit there as an unused substitute.

Yeah, it's unusual. It's not happening often. And it's about what energy I bring when I'm not playing. When I'm not called upon, I'm always ready. I'm always at the best version of myself. And be a good team, you have good energy, you know, set the standards still in training, be a leader. And I think that's what I've done in the last week.

it was made clear to me and Traff before the Spain game what the plan was and you've got to respect the manager's decision and you've got to keep for that's what I've done respect, it, help be a good team and bring the energy, that's what the manager thrives for, every person he picks in the squad. But yeah, a bit unusual

but it's good, it's good competitiveness for me and I like being competitive, so that's a good stead for me. And it genuinely is a different challenge for you, isn't it? Because you're so rarely miss a match with Everton and likewise with England. Yeah, it's not often.

But it just means for me now it's like competitive sides the game's on and it's about me improving, you know, when I'm here with England dating in all the messages, being a good team, when I'm back to the club, keep working hard, working harder than ever away from the training pitch

me off the field work I do with my mind and stuff. Everything will step up even more now. And as such an important game in the group, you know you were here last time, which was genuinely behind closed doors. I think there will be a couple of thousand or more children inside the ground and 100 England fans. So what are the challenges of that kind of backdrop for a goalkeeper? Yeah, obviously we had it years ago and it was a bit different. Since I think we've had COVID as well, so we've kind of got used to it.

And there's nothing better than playing in a full stadium, but it brings different challenges. you'll see a lot more probably leaders on the pitch, more vocal. It'll be probably better interesting for you all to see it. And no, it's a game of football against a top nation, against a team that we need to win tomorrow to go second in the group or stay second in the group. So Jordan Pickford's not now played in the last three England internationals because he didn't play in the third place match at the World Cup.

But he will be back in playing this match and next week. at Wembley against the Czech Republic. Yeah, I think, and it just reminded me if you're going to be commentating on Jordan Pickford and not many of a crowd there, one of my abiding memories, John, of the COVID times, the behind closed doors days, was doing a game at Goodeson,

and it was Everton against Leicester, and I can't be as complicated as those times were, but I wasn't commenting the game. I had been sent there just to do the interviews, the sort of different people were doing different roles to stop people mingling, but I remember sitting right beside the dugout for the whole game, which I don't normally do,

and I guess you guys don't normally do. And with no crowd, could hear the players, you could hear the interactions. And it's one of my abiding memories of COVID was just how vocal Jordan Pickford was through that whole game. Everton went behind. And he kept in the referees here all the time about Lester wasting time. And he goes, oh, that's another 30 seconds, ref.

It's up to two minutes now. And then after a while he go, look, they're doing it again. It must be three minutes now. And he kept going and he kept going. And by the end, he was like, it's eight minutes. It's eight. And he kept saying it. And because there's no crowd, you could hear his voice so clearly.

And the board goes up and it's like nine, ten, and 11 minutes of whatever it is. and Everton do get an equalizer in that time. Now, maybe they were going to get the time anyway, but it's my abiding memory of how Jordan Pickford saw that as his role to get extra time added on and to help Everton to get the draw. That's a really interesting kind of behind-the-scenes insight, isn't it? And something we would not be aware of ordinarily, but you're right, Connor, in those COVID lockdown times.

And again, funny enough, I was reminded of commentating those days the other day because I was commentating at Meadow Park on Arsenal's women in the championship, Champions League and the commentary position at that stadium is a row behind the Arsenal dugout and René Slager's and her coaching team. So they could hear absolutely everything that you were saying, which is slightly, slightly disconcerting, you know, because you're just wondering whether something you say might get picked up on. By the way, I think Gary Flintoff might have just wandered John through the back of your camera shot there in his swimming trunks. don't worry he is he is appropriately dressed for the for minus one duties can I can I just ask a quick question as well because Connor and I were talking about this before we came on air in last week's pod I was talking about my one experience of commentating on England for five live and you said that reminded you that apparently you do you have you have one experience of the same thing I'm the same as you so look at you know when we started out of five live it was always my Mike Ingram and Alan Green would have done all the England games and almost exclusively through that.

I know, John, you would have done the occasional one. But yes, there was one single solitary time where I did an England senior men's international from Wembley. Do you want to take a guess at years or situation? I mean, this is the impossible question. Any gambles and guesses? Are you commentating alongside someone else to be my first question on your own? Well, again, so I was alongside Mike Inham. It was me and Mike Ingram.

And I'll tell you, it was 2008. And it would have been because the Olympics were on. Was that Beijing in 2008? So greedy, probably you chief, would have been away or whatever. And then this had happened immediately after the Olympics. So I got called up. But I did, when I was listening to the podcast last week, and you mentioned that. And I went up and I looked back through the archive and I was able to pick out a little bit of the commentary.

And oh, my God, my voice sounds so different. This is 2008. That's a long time ago. And you guys will remember that in that era, it was very, it was the way things were done. at 22 and a half minutes, you would hand over to the other commentator. And I obviously would have commentated

with Mike regularly in Premier League games, but because this was England, it's at Wembley, I'm an Irish guy commenting on England. I really wanted to get it right that day. And you guys would know, there would be funny incidents over the years where something would happen in around the 2230,

so you would keep going rather than disrupt the flow and whatever. So during the game, at Wembley, and I very much looked up to Mike now, would have wanted to impress him and would have wanted to do everything right. And the 22 minutes, are clock over and I'm about to hand over

over and here we go and lo and behold Milan Barosh steps up for what was then called the Czech Republic Barosh now turns brilliantly oh and the ball ends up in the back of the Anosh scores his 32nd international goal so of course I'm in full ghost tone I'm looking down the watch

22 minutes 28 22 minutes 29 he turned around Ashley Cole as sweet as you like pain across the face of coal and he glanced over to Mike and he kind of you just keep going you you know as in don't disrupt the flow. And it is England nil, Czech Republic 1.

Well, that was coming, Connor. I think it also went in off Ashley Cole. But I remember just that that is so funny that that would happen at that instant for that game, working with Mike and England. I'll always remember that. And if that's 2008, that's off the back of not having been at the Euros. They didn't qualify for 2008, did they?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Those were tough times for English football. No European championship. Fellas from Liam Rick commentating on the England team on national BBC radio. Those were dark days.

Yeah. Well, we've got a fully English commentary team here in Croatia. Matthew Upsen is joining us this evening. He's arriving here on the Upper Taya Riviera. So it is a five o'clock

kickoff, so don't miss that. Six o'clock local time, but five o'clock in the UK. And actually, immediately after that, or during the course of it, it's the grand final as well, so it's a real bonanza of live sports at that time. So that's on Sports Extra and the England match, Croatia, England on Five Live.

BBC sounds, obviously. On the Friday night, we'll have updates on Ukraine, Northern Ireland. And similarly, on Saturday night, updates on North Macedonia against Scotland. And Ali, as we say, you are commentating in the WSL on Sunday? Yeah, so the WSL sort of takes centre stage on Five Live on Sunday. So it's the first of two commentaries.

Jilly Flattie and I are doing Tottenham Hotspur against the London City Lionesses, which sets up really well actually because both of those clubs. I mean, obviously we know what London City have done in the summer and some of the players they brought in, but Tottenham have started the season really well. So two informed teams for that one at 2 o'clock, and then 4.30, I mean, interesting for all sorts of reasons and beyond the WSL, but Manchester City at home to Arsenal,

Flo Pollock and Sue Smith doing that one. Yes, and as I say, we will come on to Manchester City. But Sunday night updates on Wales, Denmark, Monday night, Northern Ireland, Georgia updates into Five Live Sports, then Tuesday commentary on England, Czech Republic, from Wembley, and updates on Scotland against Slovenia. But for those who haven't clocked it yet, you can actually watch all of the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland matches on BBC television on your eye player, which is what we do. last night with the Wales match. Right, let's have a look at a little more of our correspondence this weekend.

We always appreciate it before we get on to clash of the commentators, the emails that we've received to TCV at BBC.co.uk Or the WhatsApp for messages and voice notes. The number is 08,289-369. And this next one comes from Newcastle United fan Ben, who says, hi, John, Ian and Ali, and Connor as well this week.

He says, love the pod. I started listening towards the end of last season when I discovered it. I'm Ben. I'm 11. And a huge Newcastle fan. When I grow up, I want to be a football commentator. I have a YouTube channel called Toon Tactics Wondergoal journalism focusing on match analysis for Newcastle. I've seen some impressive goals at St James's Park, including Bruno.

scoring a corner against Burnley, and Dan Burns' curling header against athletic Bilbao in the Champions League. Ben says, what's been the most impressive goal you have seen while commentating? And also, do you have any pre-commentary rituals? So that is from 11-year-old Ben,

who again, Connor, this proves my theory that if anyone gets in touch who is in their teens or indeed younger, they have a hotline onto the commentators for you. I like the, what's the what I call it, the hustle there of 11-year-old Ben promoting his YouTube channel which I did go and have a little look at. He speaks with a wonderful diction.

I'll tell you, none of us at 11 were able to speak clearly like that. So keep it up, Ben, keep practicing. So what are we looking for, impressive goals commentated on? I probably need to update my reference book on this, but the one that I've always said was Patchen Kassabi, Fulham against Crystal Palace Sellhurst Park back in the day I was commentating on Five Live

and in those days actually John Motson was commentating alongside with me so it was again a double-handed commentary and it's a ball is pumped forward for memory from the right back it's one of those words going over the attacker's head he's kind of turning and running tight angle out to the pair

and he smacks this most beautiful shot dipping into the far top corner oh that's a brilliant shot into the back of the net and what a goal for Fulham completely against the run of play Patrick Cassidy has struck a shot from a wicked angle

looped over the goalkeeper we've seen quite a few spectacular goals this weekend but that is something exceptional and it was just one of those I mean we see great goals we see great difficulty I'd never seen a strike quite as pure as that at that angle and the old Jimmy Armfield line of I was right behind that where our position was

at Sellers Park was directly behind the angle where he hit it. So the minute it left his boot, we knew that was going in. I think Ben's question is spot on and what you've just said there, Conner. They're sometimes the unusual ones that stand out, so not the free kick ones, but maybe sometimes the way a ball is struck or the way the goal comes about and it sticks in your mind a little bit more.

So I think one of mine would definitely be Benjamin Pavard for France against Argentina in Kazan, which was an outrageous half volley from about 35 yards that just went bending from outside the post into the corner of the net. So that would be one. Have you gone back to Benjamin now, by the way? Why?

What did I say? Did I call it Benjamin? Well, it wasn't there a T. Did I? I think you're right. Where didn't you call it? Bourgement? Probably.

Probably. Probably. That's probably all over that. That's probably all over that commentary. I think Chris Sutton enjoyed that at the time. Did he? Yeah. Good crossing.

Beyond Green. Pabard with the right foot. Unbelievable. Unbelievable goal from France's right back. Borghamin Pavard. First time, right-footed, half-folly, screeching into the top of the net. Anything Angelo Maria can do. Pavard can do better for France. France two, Argentina two. Where in earth do we go next? Well, could France respond? Of course they could. But I think our Ben, who may well be a Bonjammer, I don't know, Newcastle fan Ben, who's got in touch. This one you'll enjoy, Ben, I'm sure you'll have, well, hang on, when was this goal scored? You'll have gone back and seen this.

You're only 11, so I did this year. So this would have been scored before you were born, Ben. But I was sitting at Stamford Bridge, not commentating, but doing updates on Chelsea versus Newcastle, one midweek night in the Premier League. And Papi Cese scored an outre. outrageous goal. Roy Hodgson needs to resolve the hidden agendas. Are you all right?

You're still going to Gary Neville. No, no, no, no. You've got to see. Just have a look at this. Just have a look at this. Are you okay? Have a look at this. I'm not going to Stanford Bridge? Oh, this is to Stamford Bridge. I bet you've never been,

I bet you've never been queued by that rather strange grunt from Clarege, have you, Alistair Bruce Ball? I haven't, but there were just howls of incredulity here at Stanford Bridge. Pappis-Saysay has scored a quite stunning second for Newcastle in the third minute of injury time. Remember we're playing 10 minutes of injury time.

It was a little knockdown from the corner of the box from Amiobi that dropped right on the corner of the area and with the outside of his right foot, he has hit it first time and it's curled away from Petichick and right into the top corner of the net. It gives Newcastle a two-goal lead and that's taken the breath away, Mark Bright. Absolutely. Stunning goal. I didn't get anywhere near doing that goal justice because it took me. me totally by surprise, like it took check by surprise, like it took everyone by surprise.

But I think that would be one of the most unusual, yeah, impressive goals I've ever seen and tried to describe, yeah. How about you, John? Well, I'm going to ask, because just looking at that, it made me think, if there's any of us, our colleagues, who would have done something like Ben's YouTube channel when they were 11, I think it would have been you, Connor. But my The question to you, once I've given this answer is, what were you doing when you were 11? Was there anything that you were doing that was commentary-related in any sense?

So have a think about that. But the goals I would pick out would be, just the two that come to mind at this moment, is I always loved a chip goals. I remember Radamal Falcow scoring that chip goal in that, I think it was 5'3, wasn't it? Between Monaco and Manchester City, which was brilliant to do.

And Falcow hit that. terrible penalty really for a player of his standard. Falcow. O, he beat stones. Falcow through. Incheon, Cavaliero, and gives Monaco the lead again. What a finish.

That was glorious from Falcow. So there we are. There are those answers, Ben. But what about, first of all, we'll come on to pre-commentary rituals, but what about 11-year-old Connor and 11-year-old alley? You know me too well,

John, I was bored with a microphone in my hand, You know, when I was a kid, I used, there was a show radio in Ireland called The Breakfast Club, and I used to do reports on that on Republic of Ireland football games. I would say it was around the age of 9, 10, 11, 12, those kind of years. And I do have audio, so I've decided if I want to share these with producer Nathan or not. I'm not quite sure this could get us all in a lot of trouble. But, yeah, I did that. And the sort of standout of it was when Ireland qualified for the World Cup in Italian 90,

I was 12, or certainly 12 around the time when they qualified that sort of that autumn before. And I got to interview Pachy Bonner, the Republic of Ireland Celtic goalkeeper at the team hotel in Dublin. This is the first time I'd ever had a proximity individual to a professional footballer like that. And there was a photograph taken. It was in the paper. So it's 12-year-old me, wearing my shirt and tie, looking all very formal, interviewing Paki Bonner. And then years now, I'm talking 30 years later, me and Pachie recreated the exact photo. And I obviously look completely different

because I'm fully grown mad versus 12 year old. Packy looked pretty much the same. He's hardly changed. But that is a photo is a sort of a treasured momento in our house of, yeah, that is definitely always what I wanted to do, yeah. Talk about going back to 2008

and your voice would sound different. Yes, in 1989. Oh, I can't actually share that because it sounds so bad. Connor was 12 last Tuesday, so happy birthday to Connor. And he goes to St. Nelson's School in Limerick and he plays soccer and GAA and he's a big fan of the Republic of Ireland's soccer team

and last week, Connor decided to have a good look at the old game for us against Spain and see what he thought. Okay, Connor, what did you think of the game last Wednesday? Well, Ireland's victory, Peter, over the Spanish last Wednesday evening was witnessed by nearly 50,000 people at Lansdowne Road. From the cheap,

if Ireland said about their task of putting the Spanish under pressure, with Ronnie Heel and a real house and brilliant in mid-field. Mine would go even earlier than that. be probably 81, but it's not thankfully it's not recorded. It was actually a written piece of let's

describe it loosely as football journalism. So our teacher at the start of term had asked us to write a piece about something we'd done during the summer and I'd done this description of a football game that I played in and then it was handed back to me and my mum still has this bit of homework

from when I was seven years old because the teacher had obviously enjoyed whatever was in there and the comment at the bottom was something like, you know, a very entertaining report, you should think about becoming the next Deslinum. So that very clearly dates it, doesn't it? But when I left university many, many years later and was thinking, oh my goodness, what on earth am I going to do?

I haven't really got an idea of a career. My mum actually got that bit of paper out and said, sports journalism, have a think about, you know. What about this? Have I think about that. Yeah, that's brilliant. I love that. Did you start growing your moustache?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, hang on. You can't get away with it, John. Shouldn't you be at work? What were you going to say? What about you, John? Come on.

Well, I was going to say you can't get away without asking us that and then not answering yourself. The closest I'd get to that would probably have been actually commentating on, I don't know, playing Saboutio or commentating on me and my brother Hamish playing in the hairshed, probably. It would be as close as I got to that. At that stage, we didn't have. We didn't have technology.

back then, Conner. No, I can only imagine the stickler for the rules you would have been with Sabudio. My memories of Sabudio is that some people were very strict on what you're dragging and what sort of movement you were allowed to and you would have been, oh, such a stickler for the rules. Well, you see, on the farm we had so much,

we had so much space that, and so we created all sorts of different games that, and we would very much have the rules for those. Ali, you wouldn't be surprised to hear. And you had to stick to the rules. we were also asked about pre-match rituals there so I can actually hear someone in the background there sound testing, go, go, go, go, go!

Just making sure that all the that was right. Tell our friends from my TV. Is it? Do you have any, we better answer that very quickly. Do you have any pre-match what you would describe as rituals? Me, rituals, not really, other than more or less trying to do things the same way. I like to prepare for pretty much all matches the same,

whether it's the World Cup final or whether it's an FA Cup first round match in terms of what I've got in front of me and where it is, I do like everything to be in the same place. And of course, you two will appreciate it. Then if you need to know something, something happens that relates to someone, you know where it is. So that's what I would say my ritual would be. Look, I'm a self-confessed.

I'm a bit of a fuss part. I think I've only become more aware of this in recent years. I've always been this way, but I'm now more aware of it. I'm kind of cringe. When I sit down at the desk, I do a lot of fussing around. I take out a lot of good,

and I move things around a lot. And I must apologize to colleagues, particularly engineers, who are probably very polite, but very, you know, fed up of me doing this. But I feel like I make a big mess, and then I kind of slowly tidy the mess

in time for kickoff. So I'm not proud of that, but that's probably my sort of pre-match ritual of laying out the beach town, if you know what I mean? And I would say one thing, and I wouldn't describe this as a ritual as such, but I almost have to remind myself to do it is,

you know, like you say, John, about having all the notes, all the prep is done and you want everything in the right place. But obviously the key thing, particularly for a radio commentary, is what's in front of you and what you're going to describe. And I'll always try, sort of maybe 10, 15 minutes for a game starts, just to take my head up and out and look around. And just try and pick a few things out. Because if you're in the press room for a while,

and then you've got your head down in it, whatever. Sometimes you actually forget to look up before the game, starts and I just try and take that moment just to think right what what what have we got today that looks a bit a bit different something something that's a good that is a great that's a great one alley and that I find certainly f a cup ties for example you'll go to a non-league f a cook ground that you've not been at before and it can be quite quirky and that's very much a ritual there that I like to walk all the way around the ground and see what's inside and what's outside these days I do quite like with my binoculars looking around the players in on the pitch in the warm-up because

sometimes they've changed their appearance since the last time you saw them and and certainly things like bandages and things like that around their arm or whatever teams like Croatia for this match that i'll be commentating on next you know there's all there are always players in teams like that that you are less familiar with and it's good to see them close up and the other thing which has become a ritual as I've got older, and very many of our commentary positions are very dark. I do now carry a portable desk lamp with me that one of the first things I do when I sit down

is to plug that in and put it where I will be able to use it to see my notes. And that's as high tech as it gets at you, John. I love it. I was going to say, if Connematomara doesn't have one of those, I'm a Dutchman. I mean, Conner has... Years ago, I gave you a little...

You must have one. I remember giving you a little, I'm sure it wasn't a great one, but I do remember giving you one years ago. Yeah, that's a game changer. Absolutely. I've had that since the 90s. Yeah, that's a shame. I thought you were going to become Alistair de Bruce Ball. Wayne Rooney here.

If you want to hear more from me, head over to the Wayne Rooney Show on BBC Sounds today to listen back to chat I have with the likes of Bruno Fernandez and Jordan Pickford. And plenty more stories from the dressing room. Before I saw you guys playing so many times and I was following the club for so. long. Just coming to the club was already a dream come through, a privilege, never saw dreamed about being the captain of the club. I just wanted to play for it. Portugal have given me

me two ways later of football. Search the Wayne Rooney show on BBC Sounds and subscribe now. That way when my new series Can You Beat Wayne Rooney comes out, you'll be the first to get every episode as soon as they're released. It's late 2007 and while attending a Christmas party, Facebook's

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Clash of commentators and the great glossary to come, but we've got to decide. discuss what says in the script is the big one, i.e. Manchester City. We've had this from Alexander, who says as a United fan, Manchester United, I presume that is, for the 14 years I've been alive, so I've got the teenager. In fact, he says, play the teenager jingle. Alexander says, he is ecstatic to hear that city have been found guilty of the charges of breaking the financial rules. He says, I was wondering what you guys thought was a suitable punishment for that. Interested to hear your thoughts, says Alexander, and also Martin in Nailsea, near Bristol, says, can you realistically envisage your punishment that results in Manchester City

remaining in the Premier League? Surely the integrity of the competition would be put under serious strain. So as we speak now, we're expecting this appeal to be lodged, but then there will be a hearing as well to decide what the sanctions are. And let's not spend too long because it's been It's so widely discussed and there are so many places to hear about it. However, there is the question. What about the sanction? Do you know what? I was thinking about this other day, whatever it is, it's still going to feel unsatisfactory.

And I mean from the point of view of not just Manchester City fans and, you know, anyone connected to that football club or the players themselves who, you know, who won the titles and have played in that era. But for people like us who've, well, we've commentated on the games or attended the games and watched this, this Manchester City team over the last decade. decade and a half dominate English football. Whatever the punishment is, it still just leaves me thinking, well, what did we watch there? What can I make of what we watched there?

They were a brilliant team. They had an incredible manager. I love watching some of their football. I was trying to think of some of the performances, the thumping semifinal win against Rail Madrid, you know, when they were their absolute best. But whatever happens now, whatever punishment comes, that's still, you know, it's, I, I, I'm struggling to put it into words, but it's just unsatisfactory to me. It has the a risk against it.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly, don't you? I share your frustration last year. In all the years I worked at football, I've genuinely never seen a story like this. The sensational scale of it, you know, I think in football we often make a storm in a teacup about quite small things. This is massive. It's just huge. And I do think, I think the authorities who don't get praise much, there was a lot of unrest and disgruntlement that this was all taking so long.

I think now that we're seeing the detail on, as you can see why it's taken so long. long and how they've had to go through it. And I think, you know, rather than sort of sweeping things under the carpet, you know, Premier League have given it over to an independent panel and then they've been very forceful, very strong in their in their words and determining on it. So you'd imagine they've got their ducks in a roll in this and having taken so long that that's the reason to make sure everything was correct. Because what you can't have is if you're going to come out this strong and make these

strong statements and make these strong judgments, you can't then have them all picked apart. So they, you know, because then it's going to roll on and roll on forever. So you'd imagine the reason this has taken so long is that it will. that they've got the things in play. And then, you know, I was looking at, I actually wrote down a few sort of sentences. Like, I've never used these with regard to sports stories before. But things like diplomatic immunity, you know, the whistleblowers, the disguised funding schemes, tax implications,

sham sponsorship agreements. This is all just new territory. So I think it's, I totally appreciate it generates content. I totally appreciate loads of people are talking about it and they want to give their opinions. But frankly, none of us know. We don't know what sort of, you know, what sort of, you know, later. that this onion is going to, I mean, even seen the newspaper today's, everyone from the Prime Minister out is being named in some way, shape, or form of having,

you know, a part close to this or being involved in some part of this. So that's going to get more and more tangled. What I would say about punishments is this. In athletics, or let's say cycling, say Lance Armstrong, caught cheating, he's on his own, he's the main person, he's caught cheating, he gets stripped of titles. I think in Olympics, people get stripped of medals because they were the one person. I think what's difficult about this one if you're going to go down that road of stripping titles

and taking things away is that you can't say every Manchester City fan, every Manchester City player, every Manchester City employee knew about this. There's obviously a certain small number of people who were directing this. And for everyone else below them who are carrying out their duties and doing things what they believe to be fairly,

I do think there's going to be an issue there about that punishment towards those people. So this is going to go on for a long, long time. And I think even whatever initial resolving we think comes in the coming weeks and days, I would imagine that will then alter and change and morph in time because yeah, this is going to roll on for a long,

long time. So I really don't think there's a value in putting guesses now on what the punishments exactly would be. Yeah, and we are guessing, and we are surmising, and I think that it has to be based on punishments that have already been handed out, because that is the precedent

for this, and lots and lots of clubs up and down the leagues for various reasons have received points deductions, etc. etc. So I think that's your starting point. And as you say, Connor, you know, the scale of this is extraordinary. We've not seen anything like it before. So therefore, I suspect that the result of it will be sanctions, the like of which and the size of which we've never seen before. And it wouldn't surprise me when the sanctions come. And again, to repeat it, Citi, say they've got irrefutable evidence and we'll take this to appeal. But the sanction wouldn't surprise me if this was, it rolled over.

So there'd be a sanction this season, a sanction next season. The season, the season. after that, after that, that kind of thing. But again, we are just surmising. So there we are. That is the commentator's view discussion on that subject. Thank you very much, Alexander and Martin for the question. And now, Connor, it is time for you to step into the presentation role for clash of the commentators this week. I can't explain to you the joy this gives me the upset stomach I get whenever I get contacted by producer Nathan asking what I like to come on, TCV.

I've got to clash of the commentator. But so to be asking the questions is I can't explain how pleased I am. So last week, John beat Ali on things to have happened in the England-Spain Euro 2024 final. And the way the fixture schedule has panned out this week, we've got a rematch again with Denno being away. So Ali looking to get back level on points with John at the top of the table. And here is the table. John with three minutes out of four, Ali with two out of four, and Ian with one out of four. Can I just make a point which was, I'm going to confess to this, for anyone who was listening last week,

one of the facts about that, you were a 2024 final, I got confused. I said Palmer was the youngest Englishman to appear in a tournament final. In fact, that was Cobby Mayneau, I later remembered. It didn't affect the outcome. Does that mean I get the point? No. No. No. Well, the floor recommends the correcting of the records by the right honourable gentleman from Rhodeumberland, and we can proceed.

So John and Ali are going to take turns to answer a question, give as many correct answers as they can in the next 30 seconds. And the metaphorical coin flip is who goes first. Who wants to go first? Might be easier, Ali, for me to go first since I am in northwest Croatia. Yes. Right, that has been agreed. And Ali is taking off his headphones and disconnecting

and into the proverbial silent room. So, John, I like this question as a listener. I wouldn't like to have to answer it, but I like this question. So here you go. This week's question comes from Matt in Redford. Hello, team, loving the podcast. Here's one for Clash of the Commentators. I want you to name all the stadiums that have hosted an England game in England other than Wembley.

So we're looking for any stadium to have hosted an England men's match in England outside of Wembley. stadium. There are, John, a whopping 50 possible answers to this question, and your 30 seconds starts now. St. James's Park, Stadium of Light, Riverside Stadium, Villa Park, Anfield, Old Trafford, Highbury, White Hart Lane, the St. Mary's Stadium. Where else has held? them. Oh, I should get on this. Manchester City. Oh, he's done very good.

Is Manchester City a stadium? That's going to be one that's going to be judged. But I believe you might get away with that. Mr. Bruce Ball is coming back in. That's a good effort, John. That's good. That is very good. We will tally those up.

He might even just, let's say. Let's see. Let's see. Ali, right? I'm going to pitch this in the exact same way to you that I did to John. So I'm going to say, I think this is a really good question. I'm glad I don't have to answer it, but I do like that it's a very good question.

So this week's question comes from Matt in Redford. He says, hi, team, loving the podcast. Here's one for Clash of the Commentators. All stadiums to host an England game in England other than Wembley. So we're looking for any stadium to have hosted an England men's match in England other than Wembley. And there are, Ali, no fewer than 50 possible answers. You're joking.

Your time. Your 30 seconds starts now. Okay, Anfield Good of St. Park. Portman Road's done it. St. Mary's Stadium. Why don't we say White Hart Lane in Highbury, Hillsborough, Bramel Lane, Mollinue, St Andrews, Villa Park. Where else should we say?

City Ground. King Power Stadium, Philbert Street before that. I'm honestly, I'm just lobbing them out here. Stadium of Light, St. James's Park, Old Trafford I've not even mentioned yet. Etty had Stadium. Oh, such a good performance. Won that by distance. That is, that is a Bruce ball.

Victory. And not just to, all right, you have hit that out of the park. Yeah. But do you know what? So that one, Connor, that is a great example of there was no, there was impunity you could name as many as you like there because the ones I always don't like are if you get it wrong you have a point off so you've got a bit more careful with it whereas there you can just go scattergun we should we should have had that rule for this game yeah maybe we should

although to be honest I think also if you named did the England did play that yeah did they right so the scores are being being tallied up so we're going to give you so Ali John said man city which you know could have been made road but we're going to give him man City is the Etsy ad. Oh, wow. And that gave John 10 correct answers. But, Ali, the comfortable winner with 16 in the end, and would you believe only two of the names that you read out there were incorrect?

England have never played at St. Andrews. No. And have never played at Philbert Street. No. Even if you'd got the two taken off, you'd still have won't. Yeah. But I know, John, you would have been, you'd have been very deliberate and making sure everything. I kept thinking of, I kept thinking of, I kept thinking of Stee.

where I knew they hadn't played. Right. Place like Bristol City. I was thinking, I don't think England would play Bristol. No. Just out of interest, I'll read you a few of them off that, and I'm probably going to repeat once now that you've said, because some of them came through.

But I mean, you've got to appreciate England have been playing international football since the 1880s. So places like Alexandra Meadows in Blackburn, I don't think you're going to get that. The athletic ground in Richmond in London. But the old baseball ground at Derby, Bloomfield Road. They played at Craven Card. The Dell, the Den, Leeds Road in Huddersfield, Liverpool Cricket Ground.

I mean, these are the obscure ones from longer times ago. Wally Range in Manchester. Then into the sort of 1900s places like Ashton Gate. Places. Oh, Ashton Gate. There we go. Should have said it. It was played.

Yeah. The cricket ground in Derby. Fratton Park, Hillsborough, Lemington Road. Portman Road, Alley, England. Yeah. Said that. You said that. Trent Bridge and Nottingham,

which of course is beside the football stadiums, but they've played there. So, yeah, there's just been so many over the years. Good pointless category, that looking for the obscure answer. That would be a good pointless category, that one. Yeah, yeah. So that makes the league table now,

me three from five, Ali three from five, so a level at the top of the table, but languishing. Wow. He is officially languishing now. Yeah. One from...

With one from four. Okay. So if we can beat him... He's got to win next time. Yeah, exactly. If one of us can beat him and really keep him down there, don't give him a sniff, John. We've just got to get him out this season.

We do. Yeah. Right. Thank you very much, Connow. No unintended pub name this week, but we have had this one from Arsenal fan Steve. Last week, I was interested in your conversation on small pubs, and I was surprised that ABB did not recall,

given he Suffolk Park Ground, the 15 foot by 7 foot pub. in Berriest Edmonds, aptly named The Nutshell. Until 2016, it was regarded by the Guinness World Records as the smallest pub in Britain. Unlike the haunch of venison, there is no severed hand-on display, but there is a 400-year-old mummified cat hanging from the ceiling. Locally, it is known as Fluffy, but you can imagine it's anything but.

That's a great one from Steve. Thanks for that. The Nutshell. Never heard in the nutshell. What a great name for a pub. Barry St. Edmunds and probably our listeners who know the area, if they lived there at a certain time, might remember this. That was where my brother and I occasionally would go to the roller disco called Roller Berry.

I wish I could get your case. I wish I could see that. Roller. Yeah, it's ridiculous. We've now got to move on to the great glossary of football commentary before we finish. This is where we build a collection of commentary terms and phrases. We put football exclusive. terms into division one and we put

terms used across various sports into division two. Last week we added checked and cleared into division one that has been checked and cleared by our listeners. This week's spud, regular contrabitter Herr Chapman, has written in to say, just heard this from

Matt Upson in the England Spain game alongside Paul Robinson and my good self. Here we go, it's a penalty. England fans on their feet. Matt, what do you think? Well, it's surprised me personally. I think it's very much a UEFA penalty

in the sense that the contact is there, but I think Bellingham initiates, I think he's going down before the contact. He puts his ankles together and goes over. There we are. A UEFA penalty. Spud says, I love it. What do we think of this new terminology? A UEFA penalty?

Can use that in the Champions League as well, Carl? And indeed the Europa League and the conference. I feel like I've heard this sort of a sentence said about that would be given in the... champions I haven't heard you know the terminology are you away for penny but I think that's what Spud is sort of saying he's saying this this is a new one that we're that we're sort of we're here at the birth of it yeah yeah Matt Upson has coined yeah Matt Upson has coined a new term in the glossary that goes straight into Division

one excellent I love to say in future jett in a hundred years time people are going to say where was that first ever used I love mind you some correspondence that would come with examples of where other people have said it haven't they well when he arrives this evening on the Opetia Riviera He's going to be very excited to hear that news, Matt. On this theme, Wolfs fan Chris in Sydney has sent us this. I've been meaning to write this suggestion for a little while. When an attacking player exaggerates contact or initiates contact from a defender in the penalty area,

accommodators often say the attacker is buying a penalty or trying to buy a penalty. In other sports, penalties are more binary and objective and are awarded for ruling fractions. So I reckon buying a penalty is a nailed on Stonewall Division 1 entry But obviously I will defer to your expertise Thank you very much for that Chris So what do we think? Buying a penalty? My question to our rugby union commentating friend Connor

Would be you can try and hoodwink a referee To sort of convince him to give you a decision in not a penalty? Well, maybe a penalty in rugby. Would you use it in rugby buying a penalty? I'm not sure. Yeah, I think so because first of all there's obviously way more penalties given. So over the course of a game,

a lot more terminology would be used to describe it was given. But I think those dark arts in the scrum, the front rows, how they're trying to convince the referee that they're either being fouled or that what they're doing is legit. I feel that gets used probably more in rugby than it does in football.

He's bought one there. We've got another one actually, Ali, that is similarish. Do you want to read this one? This is what we're going to finish on this week, which is on a similar note. This is from Scott in Connecticut. Have we had a correspondence from Connecticut before?

I'm not sure we have. But anyway. So Scott says this is my first time contacting you, but I've been listening since day one when I distinctly remember listening to that first episode while shoveling snow off my driveway. Anyway, my submission for Division I, everyone is going for top level this week, is gone to ground.

Now this to my ear is an absolute nailed on commentatorism. It's one of those phrases that exist. almost exclusively in the audio world of football. In real life, people just fall over. They don't go to ground unless they're badgers or on the run from the authorities. And yet in football commentary, this phrase crops up in most matches.

It's so wonderfully diplomatic, perfectly poised between description and judgment. The player is no longer vertical, but we're all left hanging. Was he fouled or will he shortly be appearing on Chris Sutton's simulation game? You never hear it in other sports. In rugby, no one goes to ground.

They're tackled to the ground. but football commentators they keep it judicial, almost courtroom-like, he's gone to ground, pending further evidence. Anyway, I submit gone to ground as a phrase that does a huge amount of quiet, ambiguous heavy lifting in football commentary, painting the picture, hedging the bets, and keeping the listener hooked while the referee decides

whether it's a foul or an audition. Thanks for keeping us entertained while dog walking, snow shoveling, and in my case, occasionally going to ground on a Connecticut driveway. All the best from Scott. right I open that to the floor great email great email thank you Scott great email that I want to put it into Division 1 just because of how good the email was yeah it's a great expression isn't and I think I think Scott mentions about sort of it's a commentatorism a commentator is like saying

that because you're actually not accusing the player of dive he's gone to ground now he might have gone to grow up because he was fouled or it gives you a way of painting the picture of what's happened without actually making the judgment is how I would see it the only problem well I And this is where the ruling is going to have to be made here. The expression gone to ground exists, meaning something else, right? There's an expression he's gone to ground. So if you say, I haven't seen Ian Dennis down the pub, is he coming out for a pint?

And you go, no, no, no, he's gone to ground. He kind of means someone who's keeping their head down, who's not sort of coming out. Am I right? Is that, you know, he's in trouble at home? He's gone to ground. He's not coming out. Is that just an Irishism? I'll be interested to hear what he thinks about.

that when he comes back onto this podcast but we don't we can't find that at the moment because he has gone to ground yeah no no this is not an Ian Dennis specific any any person who might just be gone to ground but it on the podcast this week has Ian Dennis gone to ground yeah so that but you're right Connor this because we're talking here about the use a very specific use of gone to ground so this is a phrase that's used in other areas of life isn't it but it in this specific sense of a player falling over and I think as Scott says that sort of thing where like you were saying we're buying a bit of time. We're possibly suggesting there might be something a bit iffy about it.

I agree with you, John. I think stick it in Div 1. Yes. And then let's wait and see what people say. Yes. So actually, I think we're putting them all into Division 1, aren't we? Are we? Yeah.

So buying a penalty into Division 1, gone to ground, into Division 1, and Matt UPSON's UEFA penalty into Division 1. Hooray! So there we are. That's it. Connor. Thank you very much. for pleasure as always folks see you soon Ian Dennis had gone to ground I can bring

you news John I can bring you news from producer Nathan of Connecticut listeners to the commentators view as well as Scott stramash Derek and Arsenal fan rich have both been in touch with the pod from Connecticut from Connecticut so when hair Chapman says they only ever read out emails from three people in Connecticut yeah he could put that in his pipe and smoke it's all that is it Ali thank you very much Thank you very much. That is it. This latest episode

of the commentator's view, questions and correspondence are always welcome any time to TTV at BBC.com. UK, or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp

to 08,289-389-369. Shouldn't you be at work? This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy. It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been

dominated by Manchester City. They are champions again, but not only that, they've won it four years running, and no one's done that, ever. Then the Premier League dropped a bombshell. The Premier League has charged Manchester City with more than 100 breaches of its financial rules following a four-year investigation. Somebody turned up at the Hetty Had Stadium and effectively served papers. Here in-depth analysis and explanation on football on trial.

The Manchester City charges listen on BBC Sounds. It's late 2007 and while attending a Christmas party, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg meets a woman who would change the course of his company forever. She joined Facebook as chief of operations in 2008 and has been credited for making the company profitable. And herself enormously rich. On Good Bad Billionaire, we're exploring the life and fortune of billionaire tech leader Cheryl Sandberg. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your podcasts.