Football Daily - That Season When: Blackburn won the league

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Sir Kenny Dalglish, Chris Sutton and Alan Shearer are among the guests as Kelly Cates looks back on Blackburn's famous title win in 1995.Midfielder Mark Atkins explains how the club was rejuvenated by... owner Jack Walker's investment, while Rob Coar, then club chairman, And is it fair to say the club bought the title? Football finance expert Kieran Maguire goes through the figures. TIMECODES 10:00 Mark Atkins on Blackburn's redevelopment; 15:20 Alan Shearer on his famous partnership with Chris Sutton; 29:00 Sir Kenny Dalglish's reflections as manager; 50:00 Robert Coar's view from the boardroom 01:05:00 Kieran Maguire on Blackburn's finances that season.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily podcast with Kelly Kitts. coming from. Saturday night, the beauty and the beauty. At the Dell, the pre-match hype is centred on Rovers record signing from Norwich, Chris Sutton. The club seems very warm and friendly club and the people have been good while I've been up here. And that's, you know, a big part of signing for them. Sutton in the area now, tries a shot and scores! in the area now, tries a shot and scores! Shares for Shearer with a follow-up driven awkwardly back across and it's been turned home, Mark Atkins is the man who followed it up.
Starting point is 00:00:52 Blackburn's fifth consecutive league win puts them top tonight. Crosses high, Shearer heads into the net! Blackburn extend their lead to three points. Shearer is the first to admit, he gets by with a lot of help from his friends. Shearer back again to Sutton and a goal for Blackburn, what about that? Sutton comes in to join him now, he goes down. Shearer lines this one up right footed and beats the goalkeeper. Great chance for Shearer in the century and it is the 100th league goal in the career of Alan Shearer.
Starting point is 00:01:26 Blackburn now six points clear. United though remain the odds on favourites to win their third successive league title. The free kick. Driven in, the shot is in! Redknapp has given the championship to Manchester United. Never feel scared of losing. West Ham won, Manchester United won, it is the final score. But the championship goes to Kenny Dalglish and Blackburn Rovers. I thought it was over. Blackburn are champions on the Premier League. The trophy is along. Three-thirds of Delirious Blackburn fans saying, well done, Blackburn, well done, Kenny Dalrym. Amongst other things, the thing I'm going to do as soon as this is over is go and download a playlist from 1995. Very much enjoyed that.
Starting point is 00:02:21 It is almost, almost 30 years since Blackburn Rovers stunned football by winning the Premier League title. It was only the third season of the Premier League. The previous two had been won by Manchester United, both of them. So then a slightly unfashionable town in the north west of England until Chris Sutton arrived really did create history when they became just the second team to win what was back then. A fairly new concept in English football. Remarkably, even though we're now in the 33rd season of the Premier League, there are still only seven teams to have won it. We're going to look back on that remarkable season and hear from a whole host of people who were part of it,
Starting point is 00:03:00 including Alan Shearer, who may well still be familiar to you, midfielder Mark Atkins who witnessed their remarkable rise first hand. We'll hear from their manager at the time Kenny Dalgleish, the Rovers chairman in 1994, Robert Corr and we'll be delving into some of the numbers behind their win with football finance expert Kieran Maguire. And then throughout the show we'll be playing some of the commentary and the clips from that season and we'll hear from Guy Havard who was the BBC Radio Lancashire Sport Editor that season. So who better to keep me company than one half of the famous SAS partnership that scored 49 league goals that season, Chris Sutton. Hello Chris. Hello Kelly and just on the topic of titles can I congratulate you on your title
Starting point is 00:03:46 presenter of the year? Well well deserved, absolutely brilliant Kelly. Thank you very much, I was wondering if it was given in an ironic sense but I seem to have kept it so it's all gone very well. Of the 49 Chris do you know what the balance was between you and Alan Shearer? Was it 48 for Alan and one for me? A little better than that for you, a little better. Do you know what the numbers are? Did I get 15, 16? You did get 15. I mean, it must be one of the most memorable seasons of your career. Do you think about it often? That was a lovely reminder, you know, listening to all the little clips back. I do think about it, you know, often. It was one hell of an achievement.
Starting point is 00:04:31 You know, little Blackburn Rovers, I know that at that time that Jack Walker was, you know, was spending money on the team. But it was brilliant to be a part of. That was my first season moving up north. I didn't quite know what to expect in truth, but it was a club which welcomed me in and it was a club. I go back now, it's not the same club. It was a club with a heart and a soul and a brilliant owner and board, and a club which made me feel really welcome. We know what the aim was at the start of the
Starting point is 00:05:03 season to try and challenge for a title and win a title but getting over the line was such a huge achievement for the town. Do you still get that warm reception when you go back to Ewood Park now even if the club has has changed a little bit? Do those who are older still remember? You put that nicely. Yeah I mean I went back earlier this season to cover the FA Cup game, Blackburn against Wolves. And yeah, I always, always driving across to Blackburn, you know, I get that nice feel. I had five years there at the club, obviously winning the Premier League was the highlight and the pinnacle. And there were a few old faces who remembered me and you know looked back on those days with great fondness. So yeah it was a wonderful, wonderful time.
Starting point is 00:05:52 So it was 95 when Rovers won the league and it was a title triumph that came at the end of a very fast period of growth and improvement all funded as Chris was saying by the local lad done good, Jack Walker. Here's Guy Havild on the vast changes that had taken place at the club. It's only really now looking back, we saw the 30 years of hindsight, how smooth it all was for Blackburn. Certainly it was a little bit chaotic behind the scenes with all the players arriving and the transformation of the ground and the club having to grow at a rapid speed. But when you look back on it, you know, the first season with Kenny Dalglish in charge and Jack Walker's money being released, they got promoted. The second season, they established themselves in the top flight for the first time since the 1960s.
Starting point is 00:06:37 And then the season before they won the league, their third season really of this project, they finished second to Manchester United. And I remember a game at Ewood Park that they won by two goals to Neil Shearer, scored both of them. And you just felt they were getting closer and closer. So I think the arrival of Chris Sutton in the summer was a big moment. They broke the transfer record again for the second time
Starting point is 00:06:59 and the momentum had built up over the years. So I think at the start of the season, Manchester United knew that they were in for a really tight title race. That was Guy Havod and we'll be hearing from him a lot over the next 90 minutes. Nice to hear your arrival Chris in 1994 described as a key piece of the jigsaw. Yes, very nice to hear that. Yeah, look, I think the expectation at that particular time, Kelly, was for Blackburn to try and challenge Manchester United. They'd run them pretty close the previous season.
Starting point is 00:07:32 I think there was eight points, eight, nine points, whatever it was. So it was about making that next step. And yeah, I signed at the same time as, remember, Robbie Slater, redheaded Australian and then I shared a hotel with him and Tony Gale who was you know the senior member of the squad, I used to room with Tony that was some experience so we stayed in a hotel and yeah we all got on well and fitted in pretty nicely. Jack Walker obviously as you've mentioned as Guy, was a key part of all of this. He made his fortune in the steel industry
Starting point is 00:08:09 before taking over as Rover's chairman in 1991. At that stage, Blackburn were in the old second division, so the second tier. But was he involved in your transfer, Chris? Did he take a part in it? Was he a hands-on kind of chairman? I think he signed the check. He did.
Starting point is 00:08:26 Yeah, he was. Do you know the thing about Jack? He called me when I signed and wished me well and said if there were any issues, please let us know. Always used to come in to the dressing room before games. Didn't give us any playing advice. Of course that wouldn't have been particularly helpful. From Jack, we had Kenny who could give us plenty of advice and and good advice as it was
Starting point is 00:08:48 but always used to come in and wish us well and then after the game come round and shake our hands win lose or draw and there aren't many sort of owners of clubs who do that as far as I was aware you know he loved the team he loved the club and and that you know that that was always that sort of personal touch, which I think made everybody feel, you know, wanted and special. When you came in, the club was still in the process of being redeveloped.
Starting point is 00:09:18 And the first guest on our show tonight is perfectly placed to give us some insight into the transformation that the club went through under Jack Walker. Midfielder Mark Atkins played 34 games during the title winning season, mainly playing alongside skipper Tim Sherwood. But Mark had been at the club since 1988 when he joined from Scunthorpe United. So before we chat to him, let's hear from him in action from that season. Chance for Shearer with a follow-up driven awkwardly back across and it's been turned home in the end for Blackburn Rovers.
Starting point is 00:09:50 Mark Atkins is the man who followed it up. But high drama in the Sheffield Wednesday area as the initial shot came back off the post. Shearer turned it in. Bart Williams got caught up in the confusion. Atkins finally made the telling strike and Blackburn have retaken the lead here against Sheffield Wednesday by two goals to one. Mark Atkins joins us now. Mark, hello. Thank you very much for coming on to talk to us about what was an extraordinary season for Blackburn Rovers. But I want to start by taking you back to the very beginning when you arrived for £45,000 from Scunthorpe and left as a Premier League champion. That's quite a journey.
Starting point is 00:10:32 Yeah, it was. It was a great seven years I had. It was fantastic. The town of Blackburn is a lovely, great town to live in. The people of Blackburn are so friendly and the club like Chris said earlier, so welcoming to any player that turned up. Nobody was bigger than anybody else and I think that was a point of view that Kenny made. When I first came I was used to playing in Division 4 so coming to Blackburn was a big step up and a better place really for me. But you know it was run down and it needed sorting out and obviously it was Jack that sorted everything out. Just give me an idea in terms of crowd sizes how it changed from when you arrived to when you left. Well I think my first home game there was six
Starting point is 00:11:19 thousand odd on the ground and my last one was 34 so there's a big difference in that obviously the ground was made as one was 34 so there's a big difference in that obviously the ground was made as big as it possibly could and the fans were in there it would be nice to see 34,000 in there today as well but probably not going to happen. And as much as Blackburn Rovers changed over the time that you were there, football has changed a lot since then so just give us an idea paint a picture for us of of what life was like at Rovers in the late 80s going into the early 90s. Well we, I mean Chris will know about training at Pleasanton, but Pleasanton in the 80s was totally different to Pleasanton in the 90s. It was a
Starting point is 00:11:59 playing field where there was probably five, six pitches on each side, a road down the middle of it and pitches were being used by Sunday League teams, Saturday League teams. So when you get in on a Monday morning and you go into Pleasanton to train in the 80s, it was horrendous. There was mud all over the place. You had to look around for the dog muck and everything like that and change off. Get rid of all that first before we started training. But you know the players just got on with it. It was the
Starting point is 00:12:32 norm. The other thing is if somebody had passed away the road through Pleasington was to the crematorium. So many a time we had to be asked to stand on the side, stop training straight, I think Kenny was there, we had to stop training and just stand on the edge as though you're in a minute's silence while the coughing comes past in the car to the crematorium because it's a Blampin' fun. So it was unbelievable really, but you know, everybody just went with it. I mean that's pretty unique. You know when I first signed Kelly, we trained at Pleasington Mark and actually I couldn't believe it really. You know you think challenges for the Premier League, you know Blackburn Rovers throwing
Starting point is 00:13:20 money at it and I know you know Jack was building the the Brockhall training ground at that time but before training started you know the obligatory shift the dog's mess off the pitch you know that was that was how we started the mornings and that was absolutely amazing wasn't it Mark? They were the good days you never saw the 80s there, it was ten times worse well yeah I mean everybody just... Days like that you want a frozen pitch, don't you? Oh yes, definitely.
Starting point is 00:13:49 Yeah, but yeah, I mean everybody just helped out. I mean, you can still see Kenny's sat on Ray Harford's shoulders putting the nets up one day because Tony Park weren't there. So, you know, everybody just mucked in and you got on with it, simple as that. But Mark, what was the old ground like at Blackbone before the development?
Starting point is 00:14:10 I can't say the word because I'll get told off, but it was a bit of a mess. So you know what I mean? But it was all standing apart from the Riverside done a couple of years before, so that was a nice little stand on the far side of the pitch. But the main stand was the old wooden type with wooden seats and things like that and everything but the money wasn't there to be able to go and make changes to it. You know the playing squad, we had a good playing squad to be fair the first two or three seasons when I was there we got in the playoffs of 12 twice and got beat in the final to Palace who were
Starting point is 00:14:50 Brighton Wright and Jeff Thomas and people like that in the team And then got beat in the semi-final for the next season So, you know, we still had a good side and some good players But probably Trading on Pleasanton didn't do the best for us. Listen Mark, it's been brilliant talking to you. We're going to go on and talk about the second half of the season of which you were of course such a key part and then start looking ahead to that title lift and those memories that you started off by talking about. It's been really
Starting point is 00:15:19 lovely talking to you. Thank you very much Mark. Thank you. Still got Chris Sutton alongside me and right now we're going to be joined by the other half of the famous SAS Strike Partnership. And Alan, I should really say the sharpest of the SAS Partnership because 34 goals we've already gone through with Chris, 14 clear of Liverpool's Robbie Fowler as the league's top goalscorer. I mean, that's a good season by anyone's standards. Well, I had a good partner, you know, with two incredible, hard-working, talented wingers who did every single thing right in terms of their first thought was, can we get the ball into the box for those two, for myself and for Chris? And they were just magnificent for the years that they were at Blackburn.
Starting point is 00:16:24 And just before we talk about that in a bit more detail, let's hear a report of you both in action. At the Dell, the pre-match hype is centered on two players. Rovers record signing from Norwich, Chris Sutton, and Alan Shearer making a return visit to his former club. Both were to play a significant role. Chris Sutton at five million was at the thicker things as Benali handled. Alan Shearer at 3.3 million stepped up and Bruce Grobbelaar,
Starting point is 00:16:49 free transfer from Liverpool, did the rest. Alan Shearer though had the final word. Chris Sutton, who'd earlier missed a couple of good chances, supplied the knockdown for Shearer to score with a slight suspicion of handball. There ended the possibility of upset of the day. Well I tell you what that pretty much sums up how Alan described the partnership. Remember that suspicion of handball though Alan? Never handball, never ever was it handball. Nowhere near, nowhere near. But that was the relationship a lot of the time there wasn't it Chris it was it was kind of was something that just worked perfectly. Yeah and I think Alan you know puts it very well in describing our sort of style of play and and the wingers we had Jason Wilcox,
Starting point is 00:17:32 Stuart Ripley you know brilliant wingers you know these days you see in vert or wingers who like to come on the inside they were wingers they were dribblers get the ball in early normally because Alan demanded it in early no chopping back and chopping back again and you know that was that was a big part of you know why we why we scored as many goals as we did I don't think we were the sort of greatest Premier League team in terms of the way we played football but I thought we were for a young team I thought we were extremely for a young team, I thought we were extremely street-wise. We knew our strengths as Alan has described very well and we played to them.
Starting point is 00:18:09 But it needed a certain level of humility from you Chris. Could you come in? You were British record signing when you joined for over £5 million as well. So to be, as Alan said, to go and do that slightly deeper work to get those those knockdowns for me. And that's that required or did it a mental shift from you? I just did as Alan told me to do. As everybody. No, I mean, you know, Alan was that was the main guy. I mean, I played I played Alan probably won't remember this.
Starting point is 00:18:39 I played as a center half against Alan when he played at Southampton. And we at Carroll Road, I think it was nil nil the he played at Southampton at Carroll Road. I think it was 0-0 the game and ended up 0-0 remarkably. And I wasn't really aware of Alan before then, but he was so strong. Not necessarily a big backside, but he was so strong and powerful. I always thought that Blimey, you know, you come off the pitch and think, you know, you need to sort of keep an eye on this guy and then he went to Blackburn and really tore it up, scored a barrowload of goals.
Starting point is 00:19:17 And then you know a big part of me signing was that opportunity to you know to play up front with Alan and I always thought the strongest part of my game was more of being a foil. I mean I could score goals but I always played throughout my career. You know I think Alan could play as a number nine, the way the teams play now, 4-3-3. I don't know whether I necessarily had the running power to do that but I always felt if I had a partner around me that was that was when the the team got the best out of me and you know Alan made it you know easy for me really. Yeah it was it there was a partnership Alan that just worked and as you said the whole team was set up just to give you both the best opportunity to score as
Starting point is 00:20:00 many goals as as you could it was it was It was almost genius in its simplicity, if you like. Absolutely. That's perfectly put, Kelly, once again. It was. Chris said we weren't the best team on the I, but I'll tell you what, we had the best attitude, we had the best team spirit, and we had the best system that suited us. And no one was better at what we were doing than Blackburn Rovers at that particular time in terms of having a really tough, hard midfield that could also play and having a well-organised defence and a very, very good goalkeeper. And when you've got all of that and when you've got two wingers who, as we've said, put balls into the box and myself and Chris could do the rest, we could score goals and
Starting point is 00:20:51 we could have a scrap and a fight, which you had to do then because that's, and you still have to do that now, that's one thing that hasn't changed is that you have to roll up your sleeves and fight and scrap and that was a big part of our team as well. And you know as somebody who's been working on the Premier League, whether it was playing or whether it's now as an analyst, for the entirety of its duration, does that give you a sense of perspective on that title triumph, on that title winning season and where it fits in? No, I mean for little old Blackburn, I mean when you go to the ground even now,
Starting point is 00:21:27 even when I went to the ground, Penny and the rest of the team have you mentioned, Robert Coe and Jack Walker, they actually didn't want to take me past the ground because they were slightly embarrassed in the situation that it was in. But for little old Blackburn to come in and take the might of Manchester United and Liverpool and Arsenal and all these teams who are far bigger in stature than Blackburn are, always will be. But for us to come in and take on the big boys and actually beat them is an incredible achievement. And you mentioned, K Kieran who's coming
Starting point is 00:22:06 on later on in terms of whether they bought the title. You name me, I mean Leicester's a great story as well, but you name me any club that hasn't won the title other than Leicester that hasn't spent an absolute fortune. And yes Blackburn could compete then, I mean you wouldn't be able to do it now because of the PSR rules. You couldn't have a guy that, a local businessman who loved his own football club and wanted to plough his own money into the club, that wouldn't be allowed to happen now and couldn't happen. But it's an unbelievable achievement what we had in 94-95 season. Alan, you know when you signed, of course it was the club's intention, Jack Walker's intention
Starting point is 00:22:49 to try and win the Premier League. When you first signed, did you think that was a possibility? Was that the reason you signed? I sat in the Haydock Thistle Hotel with Kenny, with Robert Core, and Ray Harford. I knew Ray Harford from the under-21s and then I spoke to Jack Walker and they said to me they would win the Premier League within four years and it was and they genuinely meant it. I mean and for a club who had just been promoted via the playoffs. I mean they'd scored that penalty at Wembley to get up to the Premier League because they were just starting that season. So they were pretty
Starting point is 00:23:32 big bold statements but I knew with the experience and the brilliance of Kenny, I feel guilty when I keep calling him Kelly, I shouldn't be saying your dad, shouldn't I? But with the brilliance of him and the know-how of him and the money behind that Jack was prepared to put in and then with the great coaching that Ray was going to bring as well and you put all that together, then they had a blooming good chance of actually going on and doing what they were going to tell me and that was one of the big reasons why I signed. Yeah. Yeah. And sort of believing in because lots of times you go to talk to clubs and they have all have good big promises. It's whether or not you believe that they're going to be able to back it up and actually deliver on them. I mean, look, but we're going to
Starting point is 00:24:21 talk about Anfield and the final game of the season in a bit more detail later on. But over the rest of the season, Alan, what are the games that stand out for you? Where were the ones that you thought were big turning points in terms of that title winning season? Well, I remember the season pretty well because if I remember rightly, I was really poorly and I had hepatitis in pre-season and you mentioned the report there on the Southampton game. I think I only started training on the Monday
Starting point is 00:24:52 before that game. And I actually had five days training and went into the season. And as far as I can remember, I don't remember missing any game that season. Chris will know and will testify to this that I absolutely hated pre-season, I hated running, I just hated everything about it. But for going into a season with five days training and not missing hardly any football, everything about it was just the perfect season.
Starting point is 00:25:25 We perhaps could have, maybe should have won it the year before, you know, we're in such a good position, but it was probably only our inexperience that cost us the season before. But I mean, the Newcastle game I think stands out at Ewood Park, you know, when Tim Flowers did that ridiculous interview afterwards when he said... Still laughing now and remember it. And I mean, we got absolutely battered in that game and somehow managed to win it with the brilliance of Tim Flowers. And then of course that game at Anfield was just madness.
Starting point is 00:26:00 Just remind us of what you said in that interview afterwards. Was it, I've got bottle, we've got a we've got bottle, wasn't it? Something like that. He must have said it about 15 times in the 30 seconds. There was a lot of chat about bottle. Listen, we heard a clip of the pair of you in action earlier on. But what were you like with the media? Here's Guy Havard, who was BBC Radio Lancashire sports editor in 1995.
Starting point is 00:26:24 What would they like to deal with from your point of view? In terms of doing interviews? Oh you want me to be honest? Yes, oh 100%. Alan Shearer was a dream. He would rock up in his car with when Mike Newell was there and Tim Flowers and get out of the car park, Alan Shearer would normally be singing something off the radio. It was in the days pre-media managers, press officers, there weren't any. So you would doorstep them and basically stand outside their car and say, can I have a quick interview?
Starting point is 00:26:56 Alan Shearer was fantastic and Chris was less so. I remember spending five, six hours the day he signed and he sneaked out the back door. We never did get any to him. So we had to wait till the following day when he was launched as a press conference at EWL Park. But look, as a partnership, they were absolutely sensational. Chris, what happened?
Starting point is 00:27:22 Well, maybe I was tired. Maybe Sam, my wife, had told me she wanted dinner or something. I don't know. I think when I signed for Blackburn, I don't know what Alan was like at Southampton, but at Norwich there was never any pressure. And then when I signed for Blackburn, because it was a British record transfer fee, I suppose I was a little bit prickly with some of the press and what have you, because some of the criticism I received before kicking a ball, I thought, was a little bit unnecessary. I'm not saying that was Guy in particular, but I was slightly standoffish. And now look at me, Kelly, you can't get me off the radio.
Starting point is 00:28:06 And we try, try believers we try. Alan did you feel the change in pressure? Not really I mean it was a no I didn't I just I loved everything about it I loved the atmosphere that was created at Blackburn we had a we had an unbelievable team with a great laugh and that didn't necessarily go out all the time together as individuals. But when we came together to work, we got to work. But I think it's really important you have a laugh and a joke. I did think Guy was going to say about the media side of things about how little we give the press or whatever. And I was going to think well, we know where we got that from, don't we?
Starting point is 00:28:49 And do you know what? I'm delighted to say that we are joined now by the manager from the title winning side, Kenny Dalglish is with us. Hello. Hello. Hello. We were just talking about how helpful everybody was with the media and how much everybody embraced it and how that all came from you. Exactly. By the way, I was listening in to it. I was listening in so they can't deny it. Listen, we spoke to Mark Atkins a bit, Gwyn. Sorry, when they even look at us, when we were walking down the corridor, I used to
Starting point is 00:29:29 look at you and then turn this head away. And I used to go, I'm not so manny now. That's because I was terrified of you, that's fine. We talked to Mark Atkins earlier on and he was talking about the game against Plymouth and that was the first game where you went into the dressing room. You went back to Ewood Park recently for the game against Plymouth in this 30th anniversary season of Blackburn winning the title. When you go back to Ewood Park, do the memories come back? Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 00:30:09 Well, when we first set foot in it, obviously, it didn't resemble what it is now, but it's a fantastic thing that Jack Walker did. He paid for everything that was there, designed it, even the training ground. He said, would you want the training ground? And we get everything except under soil heating. So if it was serious, he would look at it very carefully.
Starting point is 00:30:37 But when you go back, it was a really homely club. And the guys, the directors that were there, I mean Robert's coming on now but the first one I spoke to was Mr Bill Fox and he was the chairman. Unfortunately he didn't stay with us to see the football coming to fruition but the guy that said that, Ben Tresden said what he did say about Blackburn buying the league. Well just just wait because he might not be saying well you don't need to get defensive, he might actually be backing you up. Well but you better be attacked first. There's no one person, no bot that's won the league that's not spent money. Look at
Starting point is 00:31:28 the money on the two lads sitting there that they spent and look what they get back and their championship. I was just going to ask, this is a very pro Blackburn program. So we were, I mean, you might be more interested in what Kieran has to say later on than you think but Alan was talking about meeting you and how you kind of sold the vision to him. How did Jack Walker sell the vision to Blackbird to you? How did he make you believe that that was something that they were going to do as a club, that they were able to do as a club rather than just making big promises?
Starting point is 00:32:04 There was a lot of speculation in newspapers then about them signing. I think Gary Lineker might have got a mention and a couple of big stars from France were getting mentioned and they were in the same division and I'm saying to myself this newspaper must be, they must be shorter stories. They're coming out and they're writing all these stories and how would they ever go there? this newspaper must be, there must be shorter stories. They're coming out and they're writing all these stories and how would they ever go there? And then I got a phone call and I ended up going there as well.
Starting point is 00:32:32 Jack, Jack was totally sincere. And I don't think what he did will ever be repeated. A local man, he had the steel works in Blackburn. He also owned the airline for Jersey. So he was genuine and it was really heartfelt. And if you were in any doubt whether he was genuine or not, just shortly after Ray and I started, Jack unfortunately lost his mum
Starting point is 00:33:02 and we were at the funeral in Blackburn. And you could see the emotion in his face and you could see the love that he had for Blackburn. I think he tested us out a little bit when he took us over to Jersey to play his amateur team and we drew one each of them. Just to take you to the end of the season, Alan, how much of a difference did it make having a manager there who'd won titles as a player and as a manager before he came to Blackburn? Because I've heard mixed reports on the calmness levels from the manager? Well if he was calm then the rest of us weren't that's for sure because it was I mean it was such a big thing you know I mean for us for Blackburn to go
Starting point is 00:33:58 there it was in our hands we knew if we won the game and it was such a weird atmosphere because as you can imagine you've got the king going back to Anfield who they all love him at Liverpool and rightly so because of what he's done there as a player and a manager. He's taken his team Blackburn and if we beat that team of Liverpool then we'd won the league but but if Liverpool had beaten us, then their biggest rivals in Man United would have had a big chance of winning as well. So it was such a strange, strange atmosphere, but yeah, I mean, we got off to a great start
Starting point is 00:34:35 and then so he missed an absolute sitter to put us a couple up. Think I missed one as well, second off. I did, yeah. I did. I did. I did, but we go one n0 up and then we think, and here we go. And then all of a sudden Liverpool get a couple of goals. And just for about 10 seconds, we thought that after all our hard work,
Starting point is 00:34:57 we'd just thrown it away again. But then we look over to the dugout with Kenny there and everyone and Jack in the directors box and of course the fans behind the goal were all going mad and then that was it. It was reality. We'd actually all our hard work, all our effort, all our dedication and all Jack's dedication for his club, all sort of, it happened and then yeah, I haven't got a clue for the next week or so what happened after that. It wasn't the chicken and beans and the creosote and the fence then was it?
Starting point is 00:35:30 Definitely, it definitely wasn't creosote and the fence, I know that story but there was more than chicken and beans and the promise. But going back to Anfield, I mean football writes these stories almost effortlessly and I know that you'll say, you know, it was just a game that had to be won. But when you look at the final game of the season, being at Anfield, having to go there, having to get the result, having the league title in your own hands, did that feel different? Did you feel how special that was? For me, if we weren't going to win it at home, we might as well have to win it somewhere else would be, and it would be your next choice. And also, I think it's important to put in the
Starting point is 00:36:15 perspective as well. Everybody was worried about what Liverpool would do against us, how they would lie back and let you take them up and let you win the game. Not a chance. And you know what? They never got their end of the deal done properly either. If they won, they win the league. But they never won. So that's not my problem. We don't affect that game. That was their problem. And first us to walk away, we deserved that. We certainly deserved that success. I mean, you go back to the Manchester United game, I think was mentioned earlier in the programme, when Cher got a goal chopped off, that makes a whole difference.
Starting point is 00:37:01 That makes a whole difference to the league and the number of points you get. That was the second time that season Manchester United got decisions against us in their favour. Hellingberg? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell you what, for a very celebratory program, there's a lot of grievous. You're very rarely got decisions against Manchester United. That's what we're getting to. Alan, at the end of it all though, you get your hands on that Premier League trophy. Just talk to me about that moment. Just incredible because that's the story or the picture that was sold to me in 1992 when I met Kenny at the Haydock Thistle Hotel.
Starting point is 00:37:50 That's what they wanted, that's what they said. And then for it to all come true. And as I said, it's just an unbelievable story from where Blackburn were to where they got to because of one man's desire and love and obviously finance for his football club. It's an incredible story. And then for it to happen after three years was just, it was phenomenal. It really was. And the feeling that it was, yeah, it was all justified because we knew what people were saying. We knew what people were thinking. So for us to go and do it then it was incredible, it really, really was. Alan, really good to touch you. Thank you so much for joining us this evening.
Starting point is 00:38:34 Thanks guys, have a good night. Thank you. Chris, were you coming in then? No, just a cheers-al. All right, that's all. Just being polite. That's what threw me. It was the politeness that threw me. Kelly, one big thing that I think was apparent, the way that the continuity in the dressing room, the relationships between the players amongst themselves and what they did, that was a huge, huge bonus for us.
Starting point is 00:39:06 And for them obviously as well. And it's really important to have that. As well as your ability to play, you need to play with and for each other. And they did that. It was unbelievable. I remember we played Arsenal. I think it was now nil.
Starting point is 00:39:26 And you went back to centre back. you were talking earlier about playing against Allen at centre-back for Norwich. You went back into centre-back I think, played against Reite and we drew now-now. I didn't tell you the previous time I played against him, he scored a hat-trick. I kept that quiet. Well I might but you haven't proved it then. But you know what Kelly and we talk about Jack and you know and the backing which he gave the team and built the training ground and built the ground you know Kenny coming in and signing players, because of your reputation and standing in the game,
Starting point is 00:40:10 that was massive for Jack Walker to get you in. And I think then people looked at Blackburn really seriously and then you look at the players who ended up going there. Alan, Tim Sherwoodwood who was a brilliant captain for Blackburn, Graham Lasoh, Paul Warhurst, the signings which were made and it was, a lot of players had a lot of options at that particular time but I think that your standing Kenny and your reputation was certainly the biggest deal in the reason why I signed for Blackburn Rovers. Yeah, but I think also that we were two years along the line when you signed and I think
Starting point is 00:40:56 that's helpful to know that they were serious. At the beginning we would never have gone in big time to get a player. The first signing was Alan Wright from Blackpool. I think he came in. And we, Wright, he was a smashing player. We guys. So we went in steadily and then we got Gordon Cowings and Pricey from Aston Villa just to get a bit of experience and get us moving about a wee bit. It just evolved and the players, the quality of the players, both as players and as people was important.
Starting point is 00:41:38 They came in and I think the rest just followed on And the longer we spend Jack's money, the better the... or the more expensive the players Daily. I'm Aaron Paul and I'm Joby Makenup and on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. We're punching well above our weight already, we're a part-time team in a full-time league. Hopefully we can stay in the league and that ASDA, we're in a great position at the moment and long may that continue. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily podcast with Kelly Kitts. That's the thing as well, you suddenly your position to go in to go and sign players becomes
Starting point is 00:42:38 very different when you're when you're when you're title winners. When you when you look back at your time at Blackburn, there was that that rise, you're going up through the the playoffs, finishing, you know, really pushing for the title in subsequent seasons and then going on to win the the Premier League title. How do you how do you feel about the end at Blackburn when when Ray Halford took over and and you stepped away? Yeah, I think Ray was brilliant. I mean, the boys would tell you that. Ray was brilliant. On the training pitch, joining the games.
Starting point is 00:43:14 And he was a great, honestly, his coaching was good, but his friendship was even better. He had a great sense of humour. And the players loved listening to Ray, spending time with Ray, and he was a funny guy, but great at his job. So I think for us, we had a perfect scenario there where we got everybody together.
Starting point is 00:43:40 Everybody singing from the same hymn sheet, and on you go. and if you can't if you can't do something a good turn there's no point in doing a bad turn is there? There was also Tony Parks who was a brilliant guy on the coaching staff he's a legendary player at Blackburn and he always had a joke and he was excellent with the guys. Well Tony, Donald McKay was the manager at the start of the season when we went in and he was near the bottom of the league if not not at the bottom, and they got beat in the league cup with a lower league team.
Starting point is 00:44:29 And he got his P45, and Tony went in, the caretaker manager, and he took them up to about 17th, 16th, 17th. And when they were talking to me about going there to take the job, I said, first things first. I said, Tony Parks stays there. There's no way that you get rid of Tony Parks. That's really important for us to have him
Starting point is 00:44:54 because we need to know what the football club's about. We need to know the people at the football club and Tony's the best guy to do it. And what he did previously, or the games to get us up to 17th was really really helpful and probably instrumental in getting us into the playoffs as well and then when we go to the playoffs I said to the chairman look I hope you don't think this is disrespectful I said but I'm going to let Tony walk out out Wembley with the team.
Starting point is 00:45:28 And he filled up, he choked up. I said to him, I'm never done. No, no, no, I said, that's brilliant. I said, listen, it was him that got us in this position. So that's, well, Tony, brilliant old guy, brilliant. He said to me the first morning for training, he said, what kind of pitch do you want? You know, for pleasure. I said, what do you mean?
Starting point is 00:45:51 He said, well, do you want sand or grass? I said, what? Sand? Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Oh, do you know, Mark Atkins was talking about pleasure, about all the issues around trying to get a pitch that
Starting point is 00:46:06 was fit to train on in the morning when he went in for training and all the problems there. But look, you talked about Tony Parks and Ray Harford and the coaching team and about talking to the chairman. I just think it's hard to overstate just how close Blackburn was as a club at the time, even up to the point where the directors were there and the directors' wives would always be in the boardroom. And there were directors' wives who stood on the terraces at Ewood Park as young girls. There were so many stories. Everybody had that connection to the club.
Starting point is 00:46:44 There were so many stories, everybody had that connection to the club. The biggest character was Old Ray. He used to make the tea at the dressing room for the referees and everything. He was fantastic. Ray Barrett, wasn't it? Ray Barrett. He used to drive us around, looking at houses and whatever. So we were training one day and there was a game on at night at Burnley. And I said to Ray, how do I get to Burnley from here? They said, are you kidding me on?
Starting point is 00:47:15 No, I said, why would I kid you? He says, can I go to Burnley? I said, why did you make me up? He said, no, no, you can't go to Burnley. He said, there's a great rivalry between us. I said, well, that did you meet up? He said, no, no, you can't go to Burnley. He said, there's a great rivalry between us. I said, well, that doesn't make any difference. I need to go watch the game, see if there's any players at their team or some other team.
Starting point is 00:47:35 And he went, no, no, no, you can't go, you can't go. I said, Ray, I'm going to the game, where is it? And he got his son, he made me at the car park to walk me in. To try and make sure that you were safe when you went over there. And how did it go? How did it go? Were you okay? They'll look at me as a problem.
Starting point is 00:48:01 I don't know, the way you've got your Zoom set up up you look like one of Bohemian Rhapsody from the Queen video of Bohemian Rhapsody. It's like it's just a head in a dark background. But look it was, you said it was just such amazing times. We can't let you go there without talking about that strike force, about Sutton and Shearer. We were talking to them both a little bit earlier on. what was your take on their partnership? Well I think Al described it perfectly. Sort of did the work and he took the glory. No but they both, a lot of people say they're pretty similar in their styles of play, but they have the differential as well.
Starting point is 00:48:46 I was always happy to be in the box and the service that we were getting for Stuart, Stuart Ribley and Jason Wilcox was brilliant. Sotty liked just playing a wee bit deeper and coming in a bit later. So it was a perfect set up for us and if you've got two top strikers up front, you're wasting your time if you didn't try and get the ball in there. So that was our priority. Not to boot it, right, but to be constructive. And it was a tremendous success for both of them. And the both of them should be hugely proud of what they did because it will be forever in people's minds and certainly the people of Blackburn would be forever grateful for Boaterm
Starting point is 00:49:33 as well as every other player that took a walk onto the pitch. Dad thank you very much for joining us I'm gonna have to let you go because mum texted and she wants a cup of tea. I'm gonna have to let you go because mum texted and she wants a cup of tea. That's a bit strong. No, she said not too strong. Alright. Thank you very much. Lovely talking to you. Is that all the best? Thanks, Kenny. Thank you.
Starting point is 00:49:58 Good luck. Thank you. So we've heard from some of the key players across the time at Blackburn. We've heard from the manager at that time in that season when Blackburn won the Premier League title. Robert Corr has been involved at Blackburn for more than 40 years. He's now a non-executive director at the club, but he first joined the board in 1980. In 1995, when Blackburn won the league, he was chairman and I'm delighted to say that he joined us now. Hello Robert Good evening Kelly
Starting point is 00:50:30 Can you believe that's 30 years ago? Well not really but I keep getting reminded about it and the players keep reminding us they're like a 25th reunion and they're having a 30th reunion sort of in a couple of weeks so they keep like coming keep coming back so we enjoy having them and everything that goes with it. Chris Sutton, obviously you know Chris from his time at the club, how involved were you in his arrival and the signing of Chris? Jack was obviously supplying the money but Jack wasn't necessarily front and foremost in all the negotiations, he
Starting point is 00:51:05 probably left that to the board which is probably myself and his son-in-law Richard Matthewman and I'd been pestering the Norwich chairman all summer to try and get Chris to come and join us and filming if I was at a cricket match at Old Trafford, a test match and I kept nipping out the back to ring the chairman, nothing happened. And the next day he answered the phone. And I suddenly realised why. It was the 1st of July and the year had changed with the accounts and everything else. So once we started talking, he said, yes, okay, I can sell Chris to you this year, but I couldn't sell him to you last year. So we took it on from there. You know, silly things happen, but that's what happened. And it just, it comes down to those, those fine margins as to whether, whether a deal
Starting point is 00:51:51 goes through or not. Well, it does, but you know, there were about four or five teams after Chris and the chairman said, look, Chris wants to come to you, which we knew because Kenny'd been waving his magic wand like he did. And we met Chris, Chris and his father came to my house, we agreed a deal, we went to an Italian in Preston I think that night and things moved on from there. But it was about four or five days before we could announce Chris's arrival because the chairman wanted to go and tell all the other clubs that unfortunately they'd missed out. It was a very unusual signing with Chris's. You know what happened there? Robert
Starting point is 00:52:35 Chase, who was the Norwich chairman at the time, he'd said earlier on that season that if he sold me, if I wasn't there at the start of the next season, then he wouldn't be. And then, you're right, Rob, I came to your house and signed and then five days later, Robert Chase called a press conference at Norwich and said that he'd test the water and if somebody paid a record fee of £5 million, then they would, would I think he said reluctantly accept it so he sort of he was quite sort of canny Robert Chase and it's quite streetwise and wormed his way out of the situation. I think he stayed on at Norwich for a while though didn't he Chris? He did he hung around but yeah he was a he was quite the character. Got a wily old fox yeah.
Starting point is 00:53:28 And when when Jack Walker came into the club Rob and and and sort of came with these these huge visions everybody's talked about how he kind of sold them on his vision how he convinced them that he was going to deliver on that vision. What were your first impressions? Well, first, we knew about it. I mean, Jack had been involved a little bit when we had the two failed playoff attempts in the late 80s. And he said to us, you know, you've got no chance with the structure as it is. Then he sold his business in 1990, I think. And in 1990, he got involved, he said would you
Starting point is 00:54:06 like me to get involved, so we need to talk about it, how we're going to take it forward, obviously the ground won't do, there's no training grounds or whatever and the board had some meetings and Jack said look I'll buy the club if you wish so we had always looked at ourselves as the custodians of the town if you wish. So we had always looked at ourselves as the custodians of the town's football club. We'd all, there were six of us, we'd all joined the board, as did a lot of directors in those days.
Starting point is 00:54:35 You nearly always had a lawyer, you had an accountant, and you had somebody from the construction industry who were supporters. We had three other guys in there, and we could just see that Jack coming in could take us to a whole new level. So we came in and we talked about managers, but of course not only the managers, we brought Kenny in, but we had to sort of talk about a new ground, a new training ground. It was a pretty big undertaking to try and get all these parallel activities going, but it all worked out. It was a thoroughly enjoyable time, as the lads explained the playing side,
Starting point is 00:55:20 but off the field was pretty exciting as well. So a good time was had by all and it all ended up very well in 1995 at Liverpool. But it was a little bit tense as Rovers were getting towards the end of the season. After losing two and drawing one of their previous five matches, it all came down to that trip to Anfield on the final day of the season. We've touched on it at several points over the course of the program. So let's set it out in black and white. So Blackburn Rovers led Manchester United by just one point.
Starting point is 00:55:55 It was in Blackburn's hands. It was all there for them to be one. But Chris, what was the mood like heading to Anfield? I think all the players were nervous as hell, terrified because we had led. We were the leaders, we weren't the chasers. And it was the last of the 42 game seasons and we'd come so far and that's where I always felt that Kenny was so, so important as the experience had been there and done it and won trophies. I don't think there was a player in that Blackburn team who had won a league title.
Starting point is 00:56:40 So we were all sort of, I looking for the reassurance from from from Kenny and He always whether he was feeling confident or not he always gave us that impression that that he was backing us and confident and we were gonna go the The course and distance but you know, there's there's no doubt The feeling was you know, we can't we can't lose this from here, but it was it was a remarkable last day Just the whole series of events the Liverpool Manchester United rivalry talk of Liverpool letting Blackburn win the game and you know Kenny returning to to Anfield but
Starting point is 00:57:20 But Manchester United you know in the end it may have ended up the perfect result really, because Liverpool winning, there weren't any sort of conspiracy theories, but Manchester United had it in their hands, as it were, and didn't take their chances. But in the build-up to the game, you talked about the importance of your manager. Meanwhile, Alex Ferguson was doing his best to get the result that he wanted. I can't for a minute think that Liverpool Football Club, what they've achieved over the years and what they stand for. And the manager who's done a fantastic job there, they could possibly even contemplate handing a title to Blackburn because Kenny DeGreece is the manager. It's just unthinkable. That club knows for their own championship-winning
Starting point is 00:58:01 days of 17 championships, four European cups, that you have to earn the right to win a championship. We know that too and I think both of us would agree that we don't not want to help in hand to do that. I don't think there's any doubt in my mind at all that we'll be all trying something. Chris, you were having a little chuckle during the Alex Ferguson interview there. I mean that was a battle in itself wasn't it? Ferguson, Darlglish, those head-to-heads, the press conferences, so Alex chucking a grenade in and your dad was pretty good at chucking one back
Starting point is 00:58:34 wasn't he and very dry with things so that was always fascinating but it was brilliant you know that, the two teams going toe to toe and then all the drama. I don't think we ever played on the same day because of the way the television had chosen the games. And Manchester United had always had that habit of scoring in Fergie time and then, you know, putting pressure on us at Blackburn. And we did sort of wilt towards the end and we didn't and then, you know, putting pressure on us at Blackburn. And we did sort of wilt towards the end and we didn't mean to, you know, we didn't want to make it that that exciting. And the game Alan spoke about earlier is absolutely right.
Starting point is 00:59:14 The Newcastle, it was VE Day, they called the game, victory at Ewood. But blimey, Tim Flowers, his performance. Rul Fox was my mate playing for Newcastle Tim Flowers, his performance. Ruel Fox was my mate playing for Newcastle. And Tim Flowers made two unbelievable saves from Ruel Fox. And that was a massive three points to take us to the brink at Anfield. But that's a day, and Rob will speak for himself, but that's a day which is still very much very much at the sort of forefront of my mind
Starting point is 00:59:46 Just the way it panned out and then you know that the glory after but it was yeah I mean it was sort of heart attack stuff wasn't it you know getting getting to the end of the game the red-nap free kick We know it didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but there was third 20 30 seconds It felt like an eternity until you until we looked over and saw the sort of reaction on the bench and you heard the roar from the crowd and it was the whole of Anfield roaring. They were made up for us because we'd won the league in Manchester United, had a really, really special day.
Starting point is 01:00:21 Let's hear once more from Guy Havard. The old press box at Anfield was next to the directors box as you'll probably remember. And so Jack Walker was just literally five or six seats from me. And I was able to see his reaction. He couldn't believe it to begin with. So the rule went around the ground, but he didn't want to buy it. And he was looking anxious and he was concerned and then eventually Liverpool fans were going up to him and shaking his hand. I remember one of them actually gave him a bottle of champagne.
Starting point is 01:00:52 How they smuggled it through the turnstiles, I don't know, but they literally handed him a bottle of champagne and the game was still going on at the time. And then the full-time whistle went and obviously it was Bedlam and the dream had been achieved. And the players had almost kind of stopped playing before the final whistle went because obviously the result at that point was immaterial because Manchester United hadn't done enough to win the title in their game against West Ham. And the players celebrating the final whistle, we heard about the scenes on the bench at the final whistle. Meanwhile, in the director's box,
Starting point is 01:01:28 Rob, you were sitting next to Jack Walker. How were you two dealing with all of it? With a bit of difficulty, I can tell you. David Ellery, who was the referee at the time, he's told me since that, you know, there was about a minute and a half still to play. But he looked around and everybody was celebrating everything. They said, well, this is damn silly.
Starting point is 01:01:50 There was no point in carrying on this minute and a half. There's going to be a riot. So I said, I just blew the West London's got off as quick as we possibly could. And as the guy said, you know, the sort of the celebration was there. The message came initially from the breast box that we'd won and then Jack was pretty emotional and then the guys in front of us were all turning around and you know sort of wanting to shake his hand and then I think there was Chris, Alan and Kenny and Co they beckoned Jack to come onto the pitch and he said, well
Starting point is 01:02:27 where do I go? I said, well over the front. So I said, well, so the Liverpool fans were great. They helped him climb over the front of the directors book, down the the terrace as it was, well not terrace but the seating area that it was there, and he went onto the pitch and that's when you saw all the pictures of Jack going around the pitch with all the players. So, yeah, pretty special day. Why did you want him there, Chris? It was his club. I wasn't born and bred in Blackburn, but it was his simple motive, it seemed to me, when Robert Elliott bedded Eliebetter and me, when he took
Starting point is 01:03:05 over the club, to give something back to the town and its people through the football club, and boy did he do that. He certainly did. Robert's been really lovely talking to you, thank you so much for joining us to look back on that amazing time. You're very welcome. Thank you very much to Robert Corbyn, chairman of Blackburn Rovers in 1995. It was a triumph and a story for the Romantics in many ways at Anfield. It was an incredible, incredible time for them. And yeah, it didn't, Blackburn didn't really build on it. Rovers didn't really build on it, Chris, in the subsequent
Starting point is 01:03:45 season. There were big changes, there was a change of manager. So how was the next season and the aftermath of all of that? I think the next season was difficult and it was difficult based on Kenny stepping down. It was a shock, certainly a shock to me. I think it was a shock to most of the Blackburn Rovers dressing room and the supporters that you know had won the league and he stepped down and maybe that had an impact and And Ray took over it was always going to be difficult that second season to build I don't think we'd really dipped too much into the transfer market and maybe strengthen and we had fallen away at the end of the season so maybe that was something in hindsight that the club would
Starting point is 01:04:32 have looked back and maybe changed that. And then subsequently I think after Ray Roy Hodgson came in and had a brief spell as manager and then Brian Kidd came in and sort of made a fair few changes and the club ended up getting relegated in 1999, I think it was. So, you know, from going to winning a Premier League and then the expectation, you're quite right, was can you build on that? Can you make this a regular occurrence or certainly challenge year in and year out? And that didn't happen and that was probably a bit of disappointment to Jack Walker and the board and the club at that particular time that we couldn't maintain the success which we'd built. Now our next guest might not
Starting point is 01:05:26 first glance seem like the obvious person to have the final word on Blackburn Rovers title triumph but there might not be many better people around than football finance expert Kieran Maguire to help put this title win into perspective. Now with British record signing Chris Sutton and British record signing Alan Shearer there were obviously Suggestions that Blackburn Rovers bought the title. So Kieran, is that the case? No, it's not the case. If you take a look at the the total costs of running clubs that year Blackburn Rovers had the third highest wage bill in the Premier League. They were topped by Liverpool. They were
Starting point is 01:06:06 exceeded also by Manchester United. I think the total wage bill was just over £9 million. To put that in context, Manchester City won it last year and their wage bill was £414 million. So it was a competitive budget. The net spend in the year that they won the Premier League was four and a half million. I appreciate that Chris took a large chunk of that, but there were players leaving as well. So they had a good budget, but they weren't able to walk it. What about the scale of the spending to make them competitive, the spending for parity with other teams in the Premier League? Well, they effectively had to make a start from zero, so they certainly did spend money.
Starting point is 01:06:49 But in the three seasons which led to Blackburn Rovers winning the Premier League, the total net spend was £17 million. You wouldn't get a reserved left-back for that these days in today's market. We've just seen Bournemouth announce their results. They spent £140 million in one season, Blackburn £17 million in three, and they delivered the title and all of those memories. Do you think it would be, I mean, there are PSR reasons why it may not happen in the same way again, but just in terms of, you know, somebody, a local
Starting point is 01:07:25 businessman going off and making a considerable amount of money, being able to come back and buy their local football club and take them to a Premier League title, are those scales completely different now? I think so. What we have seen since 1995 is the globalisation of football and the Premier League in particular. So we have these amazing brands, we have all these supporters from all over the world and they generate huge amounts of money for the bigger clubs. Relatively few clubs these days are owned by local fans and that's simply due to the fact of the scale of football. There's three or four zeros for every one zero
Starting point is 01:08:06 we used to have back when Chris won the title in 95. Chris, was it something that the players felt this tag of having bought the title? That's an interesting question. I think everybody was aware of the way we were viewed, but you can't think like that as a player. You just have to concentrate on the job at hand.
Starting point is 01:08:30 And in many ways it made it better, winning the title and sticking two fingers up at everybody. It was a case of you still have to pick the right players and create the right environment, the right system. And as we've seen over the years, over the Premier League years, we've seen a lot of clubs spend, spend, spend and spend, and yet they still haven't got over the line and yet we did it. But Blackburn are often pointed to as one of the examples of why PSR, Kieran, doesn't work or what the failings of PSR are. What do you think? I don't necessarily agree. PSR has some good bits and some bad bits. It's made fortunes for creative accountants and lawyers and people like that shouldn't become central to the game. It should be about what's happening on the pitch all of the time. Blackburn won the Premier League and they
Starting point is 01:09:31 lost three million pounds. That's tiny. You've got clubs in League One losing three or four times as much these days. So it was an achievement. I don't think Blackburn got enough credit for the smart signings that they made. Yes, they made some big signings by the fees at the time, but there were lots of other guys in the squad who made significant contributions, who came in at much lower fees. And it's the blend and getting that blend right.
Starting point is 01:09:59 You've got to spend smart as well as spending big. Who do you think those smart signings were? art as well as spending big. Who do you think those smart signings were? Well, Chris shared the dressing room, the likes of Headingberg, the likes of Tim Flowers and so on who were absolutely magnificent, Colin Hendry and so on. Yeah, and they're not necessarily the players who would make the headlines but integral parts of their title success. Kieran, really good to talk to you. It's a question that always comes up around this subject. So thank you so much for joining us. Really good to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you very much to Kieran McGuire. And like I kept
Starting point is 01:10:34 saying to everybody, Chris, every guest that's joined us, every time it's come up, I was like, wait, wait until Kieran comes on. He might well be saying what you wanted to hear. Yeah, exactly. And also it suggests there was a bit more wiggle room when you negotiated your wages. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Look, the show is nearly over. Blackburn have been transformed from a modest second tier team to a couple of failed playoff attempts to only the second club to lift the Premier League title after Manchester United's back-to-back triumphs. Does it still feel as remarkable as ever, Chris?
Starting point is 01:11:10 It feels remarkable. It feels so, so special. And you only have to look at the club today. And it feels pretty sort of soulless, you know, as a club now. When you look at the ownership now, you look at the ownership back then when Jack Walker took over, mentioned his motive, what he wanted for the town and the people. And yes, he spent money, but it was giving the teams or the townsfolk something to cheer. And he did that and he built the infrastructure, the stadium, the training ground spent on players and that was a golden period for Blackburn and I didn't know a lot about Blackburn Kelly in truth about the area before I moved up there everybody told me it just rained up north but to go up to play under Kenny to
Starting point is 01:12:03 play alongside Alan Shearer and to be 30 years on and you know I remember, you know, Rob Corr coming on going to his house signing the contract meeting him and his Secretary and having a really good feel about the place and it doesn't seem that long ago It really doesn't but to you know to be on the radio 30 years later to look back and you know All the sort of memories come flooding back. It was a special, special time, and it was a special, special club back then. Chris, thank you so much for being with us
Starting point is 01:12:35 to look back on it. The man who's been the thread to this whole programme, and the man who funded his hometown success, Jack Walker, died in his adopted home of Jersey on April 17, 2000, after a battle with cancer. Rovers had by then been relegated back to the second division and a truly remarkable Premier League story was consigned to the history books with a speed that shows just how quickly it can all change in the ferociously competitive world of top-flight football. But for this famous old Lancashire club, a club that was one of the 12 founding members of the Football League,
Starting point is 01:13:10 nobody can ever take away the memories of what still remains one of the most memorable stories in the history of the Premier League. This was the season when Blackburn won the league. This is a story of lies and deception, conspiracies and cover-ups. There was terror that it could tear the house down. Courtroom drama and secret deals. So obviously a lie. And a human cost that changed lives and careers forever. Dean Richards is found guilty and banned for three years. I'm Ross Kemp and this is Sports Strangers Crimes, Bloodgate.
Starting point is 01:14:05 Listen on BBC Sounds.

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