Football Daily - That Season When . . . Chelsea became “The Special” Club with José Mourinho

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

In June 2004, José Mourinho made headlines around the world by claiming ‘I think I’m a special one’ at his unveiling as Chelsea manager. Just under a year later, he lifted the Premier League trophy for the first time, delivering Chelsea their first league title in 50 years. Robert Huth was part of the Chelsea defence that conceded only 15 goals in the league that season – and he joins Mark Chapman, Chris Sutton and Rory Smith 20 years later to reflect on an incredible achievement. They look back on Jose Mourinho’s management style – what was it like to be coached by him? Can he be credited with bringing the 4-3-3 to English football? Hear from midfielder Claude Makélélé on his role within the team and from Sir Alex Ferguson on his rivalry with José Mourinho. [This is re-versioned episode from the Football Daily’s archive. It was first published on the 26th April 2025]They also discuss what nearly became a domestic treble for Mourinho in his first year in English football, and remember one of the Premier League’s most memorable seasons.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Welcome to the Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you inside Formula One like never before. And I'm Matt Magendie, and thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal with Red Bull Racing this season. This week, I sit down with one of the team's big bosses, Dr Helmut Marko. I also didn't think that Max would win for championships. He didn't have the success what we expected from him.

Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman. Twenty years ago Chelsea won their first top flight title in half a century. Over the next hour we'll remember that achievement and the man who made it possible in his first season in English football. I'm not of the bottle, I think I'm a special one. I think he represents the very best

and will take us on from where we are today. And Ida for Johnson has scored for Chelsea! The first goal under new management, Jose Mourinho can celebrate. Drogba! First goal for Chelsea for the £24m man. Shot low and this time it has gone in from Didier Drogba. Johnson heads it back. Here's Jokol with a shot.

Brilliantly hit by Kolmerting, the deflection, but it's into the net. Fran Lampard runs up and Fran Lampard scores his 19th of the season straight down the middle. Personally, as a club, 19 goals is great. I'm pleased personally that the main thing is I've been part of a club, I mean, 19 goals is great. I'm pleased personally that the main thing is I've been part of a fantastic group of players, fantastic manager, management team and it's been a bit like to play for Chelsea this year. Lovely pass from Lampard, up to Duff, squares it, drop off, 1-0 Chelsea and they made it look so, so simple.

Chelsea are worthy champions because they have been remarkably consistent. That is the most difficult in top sport. Lampard goes in the area, holds off the defenders. How can he get his shot in for the championship? And he does! Frank Lampard! That could be the moment, which makes Chelsea officially the champions for the first time in 50 years.

So another Premier League record for Chelsea, conceding the lowest amount of goals, 15. He hands the trophy now into the arms of John Terry, who lifts it high, the Chelsea captain. And Jose Mourinho, the man who masterminded it all. I'm a special guy, you know. The special one. I'm not 100% happy with the season.

I'm a bit disappointed. The man who's had a special and sometimes controversial impact on the season joins his Chelsea players on the podium. I think I'm a special one. So with us to talk about Chelsea winning that title in 2005, Rory Smith, Chris Sutton and Robert Hoofe, who was part of that Premier League winning side. Can you believe it's 20 years ago?

No absolutely not and one of the producers reminded me so... Well we booked you! It was 20 years ago Robert! Yeah you just get on with your life don't you? You don't think back about stuff like that, you just get on with it. But yeah 20 years ago that... hard to believe that time flies so quick. Does it bring a smile to your face? Yeah especially listening to it into the special one and all that brings back good memories. God and I tell you what in some of that mix some of that commentary Ian Dennis sounded an awful lot younger. So Rory and Chris now throughout this

hour this isn't going to be I promise this hour this isn't going to be, I promise you Chris, this isn't going to be laughing at your Chelsea career, so we'll put that to one side. Right, well no, we're not going to. But what's interesting is to put this into some historical context before we even get to 2005, because genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic, when you signed for Chelsea in the summer of 99, it was already about selling the idea of, right, we are going to be challenging for league titles. Yeah, that was the idea until they signed me in 99.

We can't do a whole hour. We can't do much as it would amuse me. We can't do much. But no, you think of the players who I played with at Chelsea at that particular time, you know, Zola, Dessaie, Le Beuf, they signed George Weir, Di Matteo, Gus Poir, you know, really talented group of players and they were spending money at the end of the 90s, early 2000s and building to try and win a title. And yeah, so that was the aim at that particular time. And then Ranieri took on, I think there was second under Ranieri. And then the Abramovich money came in as well, didn't it?

And then they went to that next level. That would have been the same thing that you were experiencing at the club as well. It probably started around 1993, 1994 when they wanted to start changing things, huddle and hull it and so on and so forth, into then when you were there at the club. Yeah, I mean I was only 16 when I first joined so I saw it from the behind the scenes really and Viari was there as well for a short period of time before Claudio took over. And then obviously the famous Jesper Gronkhier goal

took us into the Champions League. I think that was a big kind of turning point. I think Roman put his money in then. The season after we finished second. And then everyone was surprised how Chelsea sacked Ranieri after a good season finishing second to Arsenal. A bit of a strong move, I'd say, considering we finished second, but hindsight obviously proved us wrong.

And Joseph came in, the special one, and turned the club in the right direction even more. They needed to be ruthless, didn't they, Rory? Well, that moment that Abramovich arrives is always presented as this great watershed for English football, which is definitely true, and for Chelsea, which I think isn't quite right because, and Robert will have seen this on the inside and Chris to an extent for the time he was there as well, that it did feel as though the decade building up

to Abramovich is a rifle. That was the really transformational, or Chelsea's transformation had already started because prior to that, Chelsea were a kind of middle ranking team really in England. And then they were the ones, and I think you could make the case that Chelsea were the team that made the most of that sudden influx of players from abroad in the mid-90s.

That they were the ones who really sold London to people like Luca Viali, to Zola, to Poiolo, those players that Chris mentioned. Being in London, being Chelsea, having that slight historic reputation for being the kings of the kings roads and all that stuff. You kind of understood when Abramovich, obviously who is not an easy character to present now knowing what we know when Abramovich was looking for a club and obviously he didn't he didn't have any loyalty to Chelsea he wasn't a Chelsea fan or anything he watched the Man United Real Madrid game at Old Trafford in the Champions League and thought I

want a piece of this I want a piece of this sport and looking around at clubs he obviously wanted one in London I think he considered Spurs but it kind of made sense it fitted that he he went for. And you knew as much as Ranieri was respected and admired and quite well liked, I think generally in football, as he still is, you kind of knew that someone like Abramovich, it became very clear even that first summer when they signed, was that the year that kind of the Kesmans arrived and Adrian Mutu and plays like that? You knew he wasn't messing around and he wasn't likely to stick with this manager he'd inherited when there was someone younger and sexier and more kind of his guy out there and Mourinho fitted the bill perfectly from that point of view.

Let's go back to that day, the press conference day, and then we'll get the thoughts of Robert and Chris on his appointment. Sir Alex Ferguson will write in his autobiography that the first time he recognised Jose Mourinho as a potential threat was at that opening press conference as Chelsea manager, so here want top things for us. But again, please don't call me arrogant because what I'm saying is true. I'm European champion so I'm not one of the bottle. I think I'm a special one. I'm reading a lot of things about it. How do you cope with the pressure? How do you cope with big players? How do you cope with the urgent ambition to start winning titles? That's what I love. You don't have to ask me again how I cope because that's what I

love in football. So I think it's a big challenge for me because of the country, because of the power that the football has in this country, because of the quality of every club in the Premiership and because of the desire that Chelsea and Chelsea people has to win. He was the European champion at the time because Porto in the in the Champions League final had beaten Monaco 3-0. Monaco had knocked Chelsea out in those semi-finals. Peter Kenyon was Chelsea chief exec at the time, so this is why he felt a point in Mourinho could take them to the next level. I'm delighted. I think he represents, as I said, the very best and will take us on from where we are today.

He was very honest there about what's expected of him here, he knows what the pressure on him is. Does he have to win trophies in his first season? To be honest, it's not about that. This is about us being successful. The ambitions of Chelsea are quite clear. We want to build from where we are today. We want to be more successful than we've been in our history. And we want to become a major European club. Quite ironically, he was interviewing us about our ambitions and what we wanted. I think that's a key criteria of Jose joining us.

He's got a wonderful line, which is second is first of the rest, and that's his philosophy. What was the first meeting with him like as a squad then, Robert? Pretty much the same as the press conference, just full of confidence. On the arrogant side, I'd say. But I've been in meetings before where managers have been really confident and stuff, but the most important thing is when you step onto the pitch, you know, we always see a talk is cheap and um, listening obviously to press conference, I was looking forward to actually meeting him,

whether it's fake or... So did you watch that press conference before you met him as a group? It was a big thing back in the day, you know, you pretty much won the Champions League a couple days later, he signed for us. So yeah, naturally I watched it, it was a summer break, of course I would, and I was just watching, I've not seen anything like it before, someone with so much confidence, arrogance, self-belief, but that all transferred into the first meeting. And then I remember sitting down, like things are going to change obviously new new style new coaching style and we're not going to do any kind of running which we did with Cloudy before was very physical just running you know he said we're just going to get the balls out straight away and from that first session everyone just bought into

it straight away because the training was so different to what we knew Evan was engaged their brains the legs the fitness everything into. From the first session we just walked in and this is going to be fun this year. We obviously didn't expect to win the league straight away, but you could see the confidence even after the first session and it just got better and better. Once the big players joined us from the European Championship, from the Euros with the Terrys and all them, it just went from really, really good group to the standard, just got higher and higher and higher. Do you think it made a difference?

Well, can I ask Robert one? Yeah, of course you can. After watching his first interview, when he calls himself the special one, did the players talk about that interview? I mean, it was a long time ago now, but can you remember the sort of conversations the players had about that before that first meeting? Yeah of course Chris, you know of course the players would talk don't they? They would just say well has you got the talent to back it up? You know it's all good

hearing it but you've got to back it up. Yeah the players of course they talked about it, it was a big thing in 2004, it was all over the news outlets so yeah of course the players talk about it but you know it's just the way it is yeah. I mean you had very different experiences with him Chris didn't you? Well yeah the 2003 UEFA Cup final where Porto cheated the way to victory but I'm not bitter all these years later. One word? Well yeah well I didn't really mean it that in that way Rory but they threw themselves to the floor ask Martin O'Neill if you don't have to just take my word for it So that was a bit of a sore one, but no he he was a you know, he he clearly shake his hand after that I think so I'm not a sore loser mark, you know be better than that

But no that is poor though his Porto team were an outstanding team, you spoke about the next season, they went on to win the Champions League, they were really well balanced, well drilled, you know, he signed Ferreira and Cavalio, who were, you know, Cavalio, he was an outstanding centre-half, we all saw it at Chelsea, he was quick and Robert will tell you, he was so tough. He played alongside a guy called George Costa who was sort of at Porter who was rough and ready and Cavalier was the sort of pace at the back and he was a tremendous signing for Chelsea. But they were, Porter were a 4-3-3 and when he went into Chelsea he played that sort of same style and had great success. But the grounding he'd had at Porto and the confidence and the belief which he had in his style and his way of management, you can see why Chelsea took him on. He also and he talked about this afterwards had the freedom to change his squad to move people out and bring people in and when you look at how clubs have to operate now with PSR and so on

and so forth Chelsea could basically do what because of the Abramovich investment they could basically do what they want it still has to all gel of course but he spoke about there were good players that he didn't want to keep but he also wanted different players with a different profile that could complete the puzzle in a very good way so how would the players he signed allow Terry to emerge as a captain how would they allow Lampard to emerge as the maestro in midfield? That first summer, Drogba, Carvalho, Ferreira, Robben, Thiago Mendes, Petr Cech amongst the ones that came in, the players that went out, and some of these may not seem that significant

now, but at the time were huge really. Gronkja, Babi Yarrow, Jimmy Floyd, Zenden, Melchiot, Crespo, Veron, I mean Veron that wasn't particularly successful in the Premier League but that's a lot of moving around there's some big names on their way out with some unproven talent coming in Rory. Yeah but at the same time I think it was recognised certainly from the outside what he did largely was bring in players he knew really well. So Carvalho and Ferreira are the two obvious ones. That was the core of that Porto team, so it created this impression that Chelsea had not

only gone out and signed the hottest young manager in Europe, the guy who seemed to be cut out to be the next big thing in management, they'd also taken the best players from the team that was the best in Europe. And that kind of image, that status almost, I think it was really important to Abramovich to have that sense that he could go and get exactly what he wanted, as well as cherry picking the best of the Premier League and players from Italy

and players from Spain and whatever. He could go out and say, well, that team is the best in Europe, we'll take their centre-half, they're right back in the central midfield at their playmaker, we'll take the manager, we'll take Drogba who's just basically single-handedly taken Marseille to the UEFA Cup final, we can get this best in class squad together straight away. That's exactly what success does to you, doesn't it? It gives you that power to walk into a room with Romano Ramovic and go,

well him, him and him out, I mean Crespo. What a striker he was, Jimmy, you know, the 100-odd Premier League goals, just to say, well they're not required anymore, I mean, only he can do it, because he's got the charisma, obviously two big European Cups prior to joining, only he could get away with going in and being so demanding. I don't think anyone else could go to the chairman and go, I want to spend 150 million. I think that was that summer just to go,

right, I want six, seven players and this is how we're going to do it. But he could. But as you say, you know, Jimmy Floyd was a Chelsea legend. Hernán Crespo is Hernán Crespo. Mourinho, when speaking about that first window, went on to say, Chelsea legend, Hernán Crespo is Hernán Crespo. Mourinho, when speaking about that first window, went on to say, Jimmy Floyd Haasbank was a good player, but he was not Didier.

And going into the smallest detail, I would like to know how many defensive corners Didier cleared in the space on the front post. If you go to accumulate how many times he did that, and what that means for conceding less goals, that was the details I went to of these players. So not only are you moving on Jimmy Floyd and Herd and Crespo, you're going to the people who are buying these players for you, you go, one of the reasons I want him at our new centre forward is because of his defensive work.

Well, DJ Turner... That takes some selling as well there, Robin. DJ Turner into like a third centre-back in the game. I remember, obviously, we were stoke with our physical. We struggled to score against them for exactly that reason. We couldn't move Drogba. He had a magnet which every corner throw we put in, he just had to declare it was impossible. But like you said, it takes a special one to pick that,

not just the goal scoring, but also what he can bring on the other side of the pitch. But he also wanted 11 players that work. He didn't want anyone just to sort of drag along in a game and you know the skillful kind of player, he needed 11 workhorses and that's exactly what he signed. When Mourinho goes in obviously he had those three players from Porto who will have known his methods, I would guess they would have operated as like his lieutenants almost, kind of spreading the word to the rest of the squad. What's his trick for getting that loyalty from the players, for getting that kind of galaxy of stars, those big egos really,

to do what he wants? How does he pull that off? I don't think the boys from Porto had... You know, first of all, their English wasn't that good when they first came over, so I didn't think they had too much influence on the squad. But just what I said earlier, I good when they first came over, so I didn't think they had too much influence on the squad. But just like I said earlier, I think when someone good comes in, you notice that straight away. Didn't take any convincing of the players to sort of buy into the system.

It was a kind of natural kind of thing, and he almost had that kind of dad figure. You know, he treated you harshly if you made a mistake, but if did well he kind of you know hugged you and so make sure you do it again but just to come back to that he had that sort of aura about him where you knew it was good you knew you sort of have to follow him and it's always very easy with a really good really good preseason in the States where we played unbelievable that's a good start for the season then the first season I think it was Man U we beat, 3-0. And then within six, seven weeks, you've got the buy-in of the whole squad. That in the back of the mind,

you have 25 players all competing for the 11 spots. So the competition in the whole squad was just unbelievable because every training session was like a fight because I wanted someone else's position they wanted to keep it and so it just started that kind of whirlwind of competition healthy ones of we all want to play but he was very fortunate that all the players at times he needed players to be injured just so someone else could play and he would say to the physio make sure it's four four weeks, not two weeks. Woody! Yeah, of course, because you have Robin, Duff, Joe Cole, all these players wanting minutes. So if someone had a bit of a hamstring tree, he would go up and go, can we make it three weeks?

Just so the other players would get... So they're happy when they get dropped again. So all these kind of psychology things that he worked on worked, because you can't just play 11, 13 players when you've got 25 unbelievable players in the squad. Chris is now thinking when he was at Chelsea when the physio said he was out for three months whether there was anything wrong with him. That's very good. Robert what type of coach was he? What was the type of training you did in the early days? Was it all shape

work? Was it a mixture? I think to start with it was just getting used to having the ball at your feet. You probably know the first sort of week, 10 days you just run, don't you? But the first week was just ball drills, passing, getting the people in the right position. But he was very, very hands on. Like everything was planned from minute to minute. We had ballboys in training that collected the balls, we did the shooting drills. The water station in between the sessions was all set up, so it was nothing wasted. Everything was perfect. The training session finished after 90 minutes, it was nothing wasted. But it was hands-on.

He was hands-on with the players, he was hands-on with his staff, so if they weren't performing to the level that he was expecting it to be, he would have a go. He would send them in, he'd be shouting at them if they're not doing anything right. So he would set the standard. He was always, I remember, he was always first in the training round, first on the pitch, last off the pitch, last one to leave. And I mean, if you've got a manager like that, you just buy into it, you love it. you just, you know, you just weigh into it, you love it. Welcome to the Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you inside Formula One like never before.

And I'm Matt Magendy, and thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal with Red Bull Racing this season. This week, I sit down with one of the team's big bosses, Dr. Helmut Marko. I also didn't think that Max would win four championships. He didn't have the success what we expected from him. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the Inside Track wherever you get your podcasts.

The Premier League review on the Football Daily. I'm Darren Fletcher, and don't miss the Premier League Review on the Football Daily. I'm Darren Fletcher and don't miss the Premier League Review on the Football Daily every Sunday as we look back at all the action from the weekend. From expert analysis. They need to compete. That's your responsibility. So should we start questioning you as a manager then? To the biggest debate.

He's a free agent at the end of the year. Clubs can contact him. Who knows what's arrived in the inbox. The Premier League review only on The Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. Let's hear from Claude McAlely then next. He joined Chelsea a year before Jose's arrival and says Mourinho came in ready to drive the club forward. I think at this time the club wants progress. They want the best, all time the best, but

they choose one, convince them he can do it. I think Jose knew strong ambition. When I come to Chelsea he knew he can do something, but he pushed us to do his ambition. He knew his own ambition would be good also for the player and for the club. Do you think it's his ambition that made him so successful throughout his career? Yes, yes. I think the way the players have their own ambition, the manager also has his own ambition. But he needs to be compatible with the player, with the club. Because some managers have their own ambitions from them, from their own career. But José, I think he makes this for, makes successful for bring the club in

different level. And for Mourinho, obviously we see the success that he has. How would you describe his style, and especially his management style towards his players? He's like a father with a strong character and dictator. I think in this time he need do this because he have a young talent, not so disciplined, not so competitive, they never win strong trophies, it need be like this. And he realized he can get a lot of things from this group, this player. He knew he would make success because he sees the character, he sees

we come in a dressing room, in a training room with happiness. Every single day. And when you have a player like this, anyway, maybe you would not win it, sweat a little bit, you will have success, you will win a trophy. I think he knew this. And the discipline that you talked about, is this one of the reasons why I say to this day you still have the best defensive record in Premier League history, conceding 15 goals in a season. Was this a big thing for Jose?

Yeah, it's discipline for winning because we knew, we knew the beginning when we started the game, first time we score, it's finished. We closed all the doors. What was your best moment, do your best moment in the Chelsea shirt? The first Premier League, the first trophy we won. Claude McAleely with Nader Manouar for BBC Sport, you can hear more of that interview on the Football Daily podcast feed. So Robert Huth, 25 clean sheets, 15 goals conceded, only six at Stamford Bridge.

What did he do with you to make you so defensively complete? Well, it's a mixture of players wanting to defend and obviously just drilling it in. I mean, I think it's fair to say he'd rather win one nil at home than five nil. I think that's fair to say. But we used to work incredibly hard defensively in the week at times two Three times a week of just defending blocking shots Clearing crosses is so with the ball rather than because we are we often hear Players former players managers talk about shape work where you where you literally moved around the pitch without a ball depending on where the opposition

No, no, he wanted you to feel the pain of getting hit by the ball. I think it was important to him. Sometimes you see players go in and squirreling a bit. But we used to do defensive drills with attackers moving in ball, blocking shots physically thrown in front of the ball. That kind of thing, just to get used to it. Because if you never do it in training, you're never going to do it in a game and that was his method so I think everyone believed in it and don't forget we had Galas who's really a centre-back he played left-back so that automatically gives you a bit more security he doesn't push on as much and by the numbers you just read on I mean

15 goals that's just insane I mean I don't think that's gonna get broken anytime soon. But presumably I mean you talk about Galas there as well, but McAleely would have been key to that and how that midfield was set up as well. Yeah, I mean, Claude used to just read the game so unbelievably well. He could fit in, he would play left back, right back. If Ricardo Cavalli would push on, he was unbelievable on the ball, like stepping into midfield. So he would make up his position, drop back in as a centre back.

Yeah, it just, it worked really well. But every player on a pitch loved defending. Sounds ridiculous, because we had some really good attacking players on the pitch. But when we didn't have the ball, when the teams got into the middle pitch of the field, we would go to work,

we'd get after the ball, it was set so everyone knew what to do. If the ball got to their left back we went on it. So it wasn't just an accident, it was like planned or whatever the tactic for that game was. It was all the 11 players worked defensively to get the ball back and then when we had the ball they all went attacking. Do you think Chris that he was one of the early exponents of 4-3-3 if you if you think about it you know with with the big centre forward two wingers but then the they tended to be that three in midfield it wasn't like there was someone in the hole was there as much or a second

striker it tended to be 4-3-3. Yeah I mean Rory may have a better, a better memory of when that, of when that all changed the sort of 4-4-2, but I mean, the 4-4-2 was never a 4-4-2 rigid. I mean, that was just, you know, there was always a centre forward who would drop in. So, you know, it was never, it's never really like that. So the Porto team were 4-3-3, you know, weren't they? And, you know, had a look at that Chelsea team just to refresh from Embry today. And he signed Robin, didn't he? Ball carrier. He had Damian Duff, who was a young lad at Blackburn. He was another ball carrier. So he had the perfect players for that 4-3-3, those wide players,

ball carriers who, you know, could come inside, get shots off, could link up, you know, they were, you know, and then Drogba spoke about his signing. I tell you the one which I, and I didn't know he signed that season, I should have remembered Peter Cech and what a goalkeeper he was and he barely cost anything from Wren and then, you know, you look at all the great defensive players that Chelsea had you got McAleely protecting him protecting that back line screening the back line and then you know when sides do get shots off they've got Petr Cech to beat I mean that's but as you just mentioned they because Jose was on the side there didn't give get any credit any breathing space they

had to work back. So it wasn't just, it was like a five in midfield at times, with the drop back. I remember when he dropped Joel Cole, because he didn't run back a couple of times, we just hooked him. We went, well, if you're not going to run back, you're not going to play. And it was such a statement back in the day where, you know, if you get hooked and if you then come on, you get the fear that you're going to have to go up and down, because like I said before, you can't just rely on talent.

I think the other thing that really helped was the fact that Drogba was kind of a one-man strike force. That yeah, Mourinho wasn't the first person to play 4-3-3. I mean I think the Dutch played 4-3-3 in the 70s. Like 4-3-3 had been around for a while. But in the Premier League, in this era of football domestic, yes I take the point on the Dutch, but the Premier League teams weren't playing 4-3-3 really, were they? No because there weren't, this sounds really stupid but I think you had world-class players

but you had world-class players who were used to playing as a striker with a partner and often that, like Chris says, 4-4-2 wasn't rigid, but you would often have the set, like the nine and then what used to be called the second striker, someone like Teddy Sheringham, who was the slightly more creative presence. You wouldn't, or you'd have the like little and large combo, which is how football was played

and should be played, to be honest. The difference with Chelsea when Drodba came in was that Drodba was everything. Drodba was a nine, he was a ten, like Robert says at the time he was a number four, you know he kind of he was creative, he was fast. Drodba was so quick but so strong, so good in the air, such a good finisher, a bizarrely late bloomer because I think he was 24 when he arrived from Marseille, he wasn't young, but he was this complete package as a forward and Mourinho didn't need to play anyone in the hole because Drogba could do that for him or Robin could drift inside off the right wing. But to be honest I think the thing that's most lasting about Mourinho probably isn't tactical, that I don't think he did

anything in the way that Duodiolla did, I don't think Mourinho's kind of legacy in England is because of his tactical kind of innovations. So what is it then? I think it's his character. I think Mourinho recognised really early on, possibly even before he arrived in England. So it's either something that he learnt when he arrived or something that he always had in him but he understood that English football doesn't respond well to tactics. Chris will now get upset and scowl at the kind of assumed insult that I'm saying there aren't any tactics in English football. I'm not. There are obviously English football has always been tactical. All football is tactical but what English football

thrives on is character and personality. It's a character-led soap opera effectively and Mourinho understood that if you go to Italy and do press conferences they will ask you about why your left back is playing five yards further back or they will ask you about the positional rotations in your midfield because the journalists believe that not only do they have the right to ask the coaches that question but they they know as much about football tactics as the coaches. English journalists won't ask you that English journalists want to know you know have John Terry and Frank Lampard fallen out because that has always been the stuff that's driven our football and Mourinho worked that out

really early on and within six weeks two months Max he was the lead character in that drama and I think that what Robert says is really interesting that that bid winner dates man United maybe galvanizes everybody all of a sudden Chelsea are flying at the top of the lead everyone sees really on early on inside the club that this is working that this guy is good the squad is high quality outside Chelsea within three months I think the whole country was kind of obsessed with Jose Mourinho he was given the ultimate honor that he was known only by his first name,

he was just Jose. That doesn't happen to most managers. He was a huge personality. Are you doing him a disservice there really by saying he wasn't tactical? Because he clearly was, his Porto teams were tactical. His Porto team didn't have the best European team. There were teams who were more talented than his Porto team. But the way that he got them playing and the trust they had in each other and then what he did at Chelsea and Mark's mentioned and I'm still

racking my brain to think about when the 442 changed to a 433 Maybe Mourinho was the pioneer He you know with that and that and that and that is tactical. So, you know No, is it not is it not an equal? Is it not an equal measure that then? I'm not saying he's not tactical in any way I don't think Jose Mourinho Will in a hundred years time when people are right writing when AI is writing strips about Kind of when football tactics changed. I don't think Mourinho will be given the same Sort of importance as why the older say I don't he's had that sort of impact on how football is played

I wonder Robert will know more than but that's a different style isn't it pep and and Jose all together It's like literally chocolate cheese isn't it? But I don't think I don't think jose was I don't think Joe they did anything that was new. That's what I mean I think he he did things to a really high level and he obviously was he is he was and is tactically very astute I don't think he came up with any system that no one had seen before it was 433 and it worked really well He may have done it to a higher level I wonder whether one of the big things that he changed is something we didn't see from the outside at all, which was how he trained. Because he's of that school, that Portuguese school where everything is kind of unified in training, so you don't

do anything that's not directly related to your game model. That is one of the things that maybe Mourinho was the first to do in England, I'm not sure. Well, he was probably tactically more clever in terms of defensive shape-up, I would say, because when we sat in meetings, the level of detail he went into analysing the opposition, which people might not agree with it, you know, being a bit more defensive, but it worked. In terms of training methods, 100 per cent, there was no energy wasted. It was always just the next game, you know, if we played a different team we just prepare for that team. Whether we have to do slight changes to the set-up,

of course we did, but I think he was tactically really, really intelligent, probably more so defensively. If you like more attacking football than Jose, he probably wouldn't be your guy, but if you're another manager you'd love him. But me as a defender, obviously I'd love playing with him only because he set set up so well defensively. Arsene Wenger said in 2005, you could say that our football was more attractive to watch but they are very efficient, they are like a matador, they wait until the bull gets weak to kill him, they have the patience to wait as they have an experienced squad, when the bull has lost enough blood and becomes a bit dizzy, they kill it off.

He shifted your mentality as a group, I'm guessing. Did he make you more ruthless? Yeah, yeah, of course. I think Claude said he was a dictator in the nicest possible way, as you probably could say it. But, you know, winning at all costs is probably the best way I could describe it. You know, Chris said earlier, you know, if you have to fall over, get a free kick, stay down, so be it. And he just genuinely didn't care how you'd win. He would make no excuses at all.

He made that message clear to the players that if you're winning one year with five minutes to go and you get fouled and you get up, he'd have a go at you. He said, I want you to stay down. So that message of sort of winning at all costs at every training session, at every meeting we had, I mean those words from Arsene, were they actually his words? Yeah, yeah. Didn't think he had that in him but I think it was right, yeah I think there was a, certainly as the season went on there was an unbelievable belief that if we can soak up the pressure for 15-20 minutes that we can go for the kill because

Jose prepared us for that moment where the left back opposition left back would switch off and then we realize it and then we'd go and then we go one at up and then but Robert the other thing he'd prepare you for which again comes back to this Self-belief that he would have instilled in you John Terry said he would pick out blocks of games and say you'll get three points here three points there. And he touched on the Bolton game in April and the home game before it against Fulham. And he said it was that or that where we would win the league. It was, we will win the league there. And that was early on in the season.

It wasn't like we were 14 points clear at the time. He just gave you certain messages at certain points and you just felt it was done. And John Terry then said, honestly, I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, I mean, that just gives you belief, doesn't it? It gives me goosebumps now when you hear it back again. Yeah, I mean, it just gives you that confidence, you know.

But say that happened in October, you are then all thinking as a squad, right? We will win the league. But that only works if you're winning. Like all these messages, they sound great on screen and you're reading it out But in reality all of these things only work if you win so we at that point would you say it was in October? Oh, no, I don't know. I don't know but I know that it was earlier on So if you say it was like 10-15 games in we would have won 13 games So any message you relay to them is to the squad would have been well, yeah, of course

We won 13 out of 15 games. So all these messages are great and I'm sure people listen to it, oh what a guy, but if you lose 10, then that message gets lost. So it's kind of, you're in that situation where everything is going well, the directory is going that way, you know, you're top of the league with you know six, seven points ahead. I think that message sometimes can be, can be easier done. And when you're winning, obviously. Yeah, I should do. I should have had those messages at Lincoln really.

I'm not sure I'm a bit longer. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, well, it's just, it's just, you know, everything which Robert's talked about, you know, from his first press conference, he backed himself, he believed in himself. He, you know, he, he, he, he gets the players and he, he, himself, he believed in himself, he gets the players which he wants, he gets his team set up and then all of a sudden there's a good start and that siege

mentality and the belief grows and then you look through the team and they've got everything, they've got a great balance, you look at the spine of the team, physically they're strong and then if they're organised in the right way it's amazing where it can take you and they just went from strength to strength. One of the other great things about that time was the manager dynamics and rivalries and them falling out with each other because for years the top end of the Premier League had been about Wenger against Ferguson. Mourinho now part of that dynamic of course and Ferguson says Mourinho enjoyed the mind

games that came with that. I think Jose probably enjoys the better than I do. He seems like he does. He does honestly, but I mean that's it. I think he plays the games too. I think he enjoys that part. You know, he's got that mischievous part about him, you know, that you're never quite sure what he's up to, you know.

I don't go down that road and try to contest that because he's a clever bugger, you know. And so I let him go anyway and as long as he keeps bringing a decent bottle of wine, I let him off a lot. He can do what he wants. Exactly. He did manage to wind up a lot of people, did Mourinho, Rory. I mean, Wenger, Benitez in particular, I mean Ferguson was probably involved at times. Yeah, I don't know whether Ferdi in kind of hindsight has become a little bit more like

oh we were all great pals and wasn't it fun. I think at the time it might have been a little bit more acerbic than that to be honest. I think Mourinho needs that. I think Mourinho, if you look over the course of his career, even when he's not had a natural enemy, he's gone out and found one. There was a point in Italy, I think in his second season at Inter, where he started a feud with the manager of Lecce and there is no reason for Jose Mourinho to be feuding with the manager of Lecce. I think he was sort of lacking people to argue with so he went out and just there was some fella standing there and he was like

right I'll have an argument with you. I think that is something that drives Jose and as I say I think he recognized early on. Does that sound familiar Chris? But I think a lot of it was deliberately deployed and I'm sure that is what what Mourinho is like and I remember, do you know, I remember interviewing him in his second spell at Chelsea and going into his office, just me and him, I was doing it for 442, the magazine, and um his desk, he had this like coffee table, I don't know if this would have been true Robert, when in his first spell but his coffee table was like a glass insect coffee table and under under the glass were just loads of pictures of Jose Mourinho winning things and on the and all the magazines you know he got

them like artfully fanned out as I do down downstairs but obviously you know mine it's it's kind of it's the Atlantic and it's a lot of it's the week junior for my son with Joseph it was literally just all these interviews that he'd given and it was magazines that he was on the cover of But you know everything is for the the greater glorification of Jose But he recognized early on the power of personality in English football that if you are central to the mind games if you're central to The drama it gives you a cue dot and it gives you a status Yeah And the funny thing was he laughed about it how people had a nibble on what he said

So he never really got involved into the mind games He just thought it was funny when when I said something he got annoyed by something he did he would walk in a change room He's laughing. Oh this guy had a right go. So it wasn't like he needed that kind of Aggressiveness, but it wasn't bothering him at all. In fact quite obviously he laughed Did it work for you as a squad then because he then becomes the lightning rod doesn't he not you guys? Yeah, he definitely put himself in front of the team or before the team Yeah But as a team when you see him laughing about someone else taking it way too serious I think as a group he just takes the edge of it and just makes him even more likable that he's got that talent in him

as a group, he just takes the edge of it and just makes him even more likeable that he's got that talent in him for Wenger to think about him rather than the game, which Jorzi never did. It was just like, well, this is the game. And he never took time out of to talk about any rubbish about any of them. But what Ferdi said is interesting in that clip as well, because that perception also took hold that Mourinho was smart, that he always had a plan up his sleeve. And that must influence the way that managers and players approach playing Chelsea. That must have given Chelsea a bit of a sense of, well, they've always got an answer to

everything. It creates this aura around him and around the team. And obviously that comes when you're winning loads of games. But it's not a bad thing for your opposition to think that you're kind of in control of everything. That strikes me as being quite a useful trait to have. When Chelsea secured the league title on April the 30th, they'd already won the League Cup in February, and they were into the Champions League semi-finals and the second leg.

They were taking on Liverpool when, and I put this in inverted commas, a ghost goal at Anfield denied them a potential treble. He was given by the linesman on the far side of the field. Chelsea thought they kept it out but the cup goes absolutely bad. Luis Garcia, the man tonight for Liverpool, the man in European football, has somehow nudged that ball forward and it's been given as a goal. Three minutes played, Liverpool 1, Chelsea 0. Post that semi-final Chris, Jose Mourinho said, you could say the linesman scored it was a goal coming from the moon or from the Anfield Road the best

team lost didn't deserve to lose after they scored only one team played the other one just defended for the whole game oh I mean that would have been a sore one wouldn't it but that would have been yeah Mourinho blaming that on the on everything he could have done a treble in his first, a treble in his first season. Or the goal could have been ruled out and his goalie would have been sent off. It was up to him. Ooh! What's my attitude?

You're on particularly one side of the fence here, Rory, by the chance. I may have a personal view on the legitimacy of that goal, yes. Okay. Which is? Well, that was the alternative. Either the goal goal, he probably didn't cross the line but the check would have been sent off for barrelling into Baros show and Liverpool would have had a penalty. So you know I think it's slightly... Too long to make it right, come on.

I can see why he was annoyed as they were a lot better than that Liverpool team. What was he like in the dressing room after that? Oh, human. Yeah, of course he would be, you know. Because when the goal went in, no one really knew what was going on because it wasn't obvious for anyone. Didn't even look that close particularly.

But yeah, the lads were obviously deflated. He was fuming. But what can you do? The game's done. It contributed, didn't it, to a heck of a Chelsea-Liverpool-Mourinho-Benitez rivalry. I mean, for all the talk of Mourinho-Vengeros, the animosity, it felt like, really came between Chelsea and Liverpool and Mourinho and Benitez? Yeah, they both gave it as good as they got, hadn't they?

They both got a lot to say for each other. But that game definitely sort of sparked that rivalry between the two clubs and This time Liverpool got the better of us. I think the year after or two years after that I think we beat them and in the next quarterfinal Do you know what they put you played each other? 15 times in the first three seasons in England for Mourinho and he won seven drew three and lost five So it's fairly even. Yeah, I think we got through more times than not though. I think that was the only time we got knocked out by Liverpool But listen, it's water under the bridge now

Yeah, this is frustrating by there, and I think the cop shouted the ball in rather than the ball actually crossing the line That probably was the biggest I mean I know Marinoinho and Wenger and Chelsea but that felt, Chelsea and Liverpool, Mourinho and Benitez felt more animosity Rory, no? It felt more personal maybe but I wonder if we're maybe underplaying how much animosity there was with Wenger as well. Does it was Wenger really, like Mourinho very clearly did not like Benitez and Benitez didn't like Mourinho but with Wenger, it was with Venda as well. It was Venda really, like Mourinho very clearly did not like Benitez and Benitez didn't like Mourinho. But it was with Venda that he probably said the stuff that crossed the line the most. The stuff about the voyeur was waist. Jose initially, listening back to those early press conferences, is really interesting.

Jose initially was quite a playful character. The role, like the Jose Mourinho character that he was kind of playing, the like, what I assume was like an exaggerated version of himself that he was playing in public, was quite funny. I think over the last ten years it's become less funny and he now seems a little bit more kind of... The charm has gone. There was a charm to Mourinho that's now disappeared a little bit I think. With Wender it was with Wender that he seemed to really get worked up but yeah certainly in the and I don't want to do this to Robert but Liverpool also knocked them out in the 2007 semi-final.

But a member don't I have, yep. You've got reason to not want to remember those games, I'm the opposite. But no, I think it was between Benitez and Wenger. He didn't like Benitez, I think he maybe didn't like what Wenger stood for. And Liverpool were good, I think they finished second. They had a good team then, Toro's claim and so on, so Liverpool were a real threat at that point. They were much more of a threat than I thought, so that's a good point. Do you think that Chelsea team, Robert, is recognised as one of the great Premier League

teams? You finished with 95 points, lost once, and that 95 points remained the most in Premier League history until Guardiola's team reached 128-19. But do you think that team is in the debate and the conversation about the greatest Premier League teams enough? I think it has to but also naturally Arsenal have to be now only because they haven't or they didn't lose in a single game but on any other metric Chelsea were were superior apart from not losing. But I think with Pep's, Men's City and Chelsea's Chelsea, I think those two teams were probably best in the Premier League. Do you think Chris, they get enough credit, that Chelsea team? I think from within the game that they do. The 15 goals conceded, that's ridiculous. That's absolutely absurd. How well organized, how well drilled they were. I think that people would look at that Chelsea team

within the game with a great deal of respect. But there's been so many great title winning teams, hasn't there? Manchester United, you can look at numerous of their teams and put them up there, Manchester City. But that Chelsea team was special, very special. And do you know what they did change, Robert, that Chelsea team, was up until that year, the general consensus was always get to Christmas and still be in

the running and then put your foot down in the new year and Ferguson has spoke about this since that the way that Chelsea team operated and Mourinho's fast start changed the way people viewed the first few months of the season you couldn't, you couldn't ease your way into a season anymore he changed that. Yeah yeah you can't afford to wait you can't afford to have a slow start now, especially with the talent that is in the Premier League. Most teams have got a decent squad, they can challenge you, they can get a few points of view. So, Drozdian understood the importance of starting well, having a great middle part of the season, but equally being strong at the end. I mean, the squad we had was just phenomenal.

Every player that came in performed. But just on a different point, I think, Chelsea is probably the biggest signing Chelsea ever made in terms of, you know, you can the dropers, the Crestpals, because at that point Chelsea were a good club, you know, winning an FA Cup, but he sort of set the stool out for the 15-20 years after that for winning Premier League Champions League. He was fundamental to changing the attitude of the club to sort of push forward, expect Premier League titles, along with Alkbar Mardic supporting. So I think with all the players Chelsea have signed,

I think he's probably the most important. And he remains the youngest manager to have won the Premier League title 42 years and 94 days and at the time he was only the second non-British manager to win the English top flight in its entire history, Arsene Wenger being the first. So when you look at those that have followed, Ancelotti, Mancini, Pellegrini, Ranieri, Conte, Guardiola and Klopp. You could say that he paved the way along with Wenger for all of those. Robert, thank you very much for being with us. Robert Hoofe has been with us. Rory, Chris, thank you as well. Welcome to the Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you inside Formula One like never before. And I'm Matt Magendie and thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal

with Red Bull Racing this season. This week I sit down with one of the team's big bosses, Dr Helmut Marko. I also didn't think that Max would win four championships. He didn't have the success what we expected from him. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the Inside Track wherever you get your podcasts.