Football Daily - The Commentators' View: Bellingham left out & commentary tattoos

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball talk football, travel & language. They hear from Thomas Tuchel after leaving Bellingham, Foden & Grealish out of his England squad. Plus, John is ���humbled’ by a commentary tattoo, and will anything join the ‘Cruyff Turn’ in Division One of the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? Get your suggestions in with WhatsApp voicenotes to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]02:45 Ali has his car back! 06:05 Thomas Tuchel announces England squad 13:50 Detailed beard analysis 18:10 5 Live commentaries this weekend 19:00 Forest fans turn on Ange Postecoglou 21:05 Selhurst Park adorned with 5 Live quotes 22:30 John ‘humbled’ by commentary tattoo 23:35 Can Crystal Palace win the Premier League? 26:20 Ali vs Ian in Clash of the Commentators 33:00 The Great Glossary of Football CommentaryBBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries: Sat 1500 Arsenal v West Ham, Sat 1500 Man Utd v Sunderland on Sports Extra, Sat 1730 Chelsea v Liverpool , Sun 1400 Newcastle v Forest , Sun 1400 Everton v Palace on Sports Extra Sun 1400 Aston Villa v Burnley on BBC Sport website & app, Sun 1400 Wolves v Brighton on BBC Sport website & app, Sun 1630 Brentford v Man City.

The Commentator's View on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. I'm Ian Dennis, and this is the commentators view where we five live commentators talk about football, our travels and the language of the beautiful game. And we're all back together, fresh from the States, John Murray and Ali Bruce Ball from their Rider Cup duty. Yes, it's nice to be back and it's nice that you're here as well, particularly since last week. I said you wouldn't be here. It was that wishful thinking. To be honest, you've missed so many. I just thought he must be missing next week as well. But I was wrong.

I admit I put my hands on. I'm sure now you'll be on a long run, won't you? No, I won't. Oh, will you not? Can I just say I only missed one? Oh, okay. Because last week I wasn't selected because it was a Rider Cup special. So you'd miss two?

Yeah, but you'll be here next week. Sorry? So you'll be on next week as well then. Ali, how are you? I'm not here next week I'm not here next week either no no so a bit like John McEnroe

I was talking to myself yeah I'll tell you what they're going to have to do John what they're going to have to do is on the the imaging for the pod the commentators view they're going to have to move the apostrophe if you're the only one on it's going to have to be commentator apostrophe S rather than commentators

apostrophe next week it's going to be like an audience with Peter Eustinoff isn't it next week I take it though the two of you had a thoroughly enjoyable time it was it was amazing Ian you know I don't know whether I'm sure there will be some crossover between listeners of this podcast and listeners of our golf coverage and our coverage full stop

but I think I would put that week down in New York as one of the most exciting enjoyable work experiences of my of my time at the BBC and I think we discussed it a little bit on last week's pod and John and I discussed it on the golf course, didn't we, John, but there's something about covering rider cups in the States on a sunny afternoon in New York when you know people back at home are getting in their cars after the football or sitting at home having had their dinner. I don't know what it is,

but there's something about that that just makes it extra special. Just the atmosphere that there was on the Sunday, when the red was on the boards alley and the crowd were building. And I know, you know, I find myself in the end spending quite a lot of time on the 17th where I think it was probably the loudest. And since then, I've just thought for the players who stepped into that on the 17th, you know, what a test of your metal lad is to stand up to that.

Well, we're now, of course, back to the bread and butter of the football, but it's been a week of reunions because, Ali, you've finally reunited with your car at the Westfield Shopping Centre. After what was it? Three weeks? Three weeks. Yeah, West Ham, Tottenham, whatever date that was. car fire in the car park couldn't get the car home went to bill bow went off to the rider cup

emailed the shopping center a few times just to check it was still going to be there and i wasn't going to get charged an extortionate amount for parking it there for three weeks and when i when i got there the the bit of the car park it was in so my car was actually parked the floor above where the actual car fire was um but they you know they were still looking at structural damage so i had to be escorted to the car it was behind locked gates it was the only car left in that section of the car park so it was looking a bit lost and lonely but it was it was delightful to be reunited and then i drove to the exit and they said don't worry you won't be charged not a problem you'll just drive straight through the barrier and i got to the barrier and it

recognized the number plate and it said that'll be 424 pounds please so i had to buzz and said um i'm not paying that is that the biggest parking fee that you've ever been asked for Is that a new record? Well, it probably is. The one I remember John once is being on holiday down on the Amalfi Coast, and we couldn't find. It's very difficult. A, it's very difficult to drive around narrow roads around there,

but parking is impossible to find. And I think it's a little bit of a stitch-up for the tourists. I think what they do, so the first night we found somewhere we thought was totally fine to park, got there in the morning, the car had gone, and I sort of went around, and asked where it might be and a few other tourists sort of raised their eyebrows and said oh you've been done as well and i think what happened was you park for your first night they recognize it's a higher car they tow it

away they take 200 euros off you and then they never trouble you again but that's not quite as much as 424 pounds but that was another expensive one that stung and i felt a little hard done by there that that trip around the amalfi coast the bus trip where you go from where is it you go over the positano yeah positano from sorrento that is one of the most hair-raising journeys i have ever been on that is you know any i mean it's a great journey to do but it is you know i have to say that really i i thought we're going to drive off the edge here does that does that rival your your trek from bulgaria to scoffia is about that kevin galligan that's right it do it does the difference being But when I was driving over the mountains between Sophia and Skopje,

I was doing it at a careful speed. Those buses on the Amalfi coast go at breakneck speed. And you just think, if there's anything coming the other way, we are finished. And was £4.24 the cost of your personal shopping spree in New York? And have you got your luggage back? And did you have any more flat tyres? But happy news is that no, it didn't cost that much. Yes, my bag did get back.

Just before I thought, if I get back to the hotel, I'm going to have to return to the shop and buy more clothes, a second change of clothes, but the bag was there. And no, that was the only flat tire that we suffered during the course of our week in America. Well, I'm with John at Wembley, where Thomas Tuchel has just announced his England squad for the friendly international against Wales and the World Cup qualifier against Latvia. There's a recall for Bacayosaka, but there is no. no place for Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden or Jack Grealish. Here is Thomas Tuchel.

I think we're seeing a very straightforward decision. The question was, shall we stick with the same group, if possible, if we don't have any injuries and then have to, shall we stick with it? And very quickly the question came up, why shouldn't we? Why wouldn't we? The support, the determination, the challenge, the competition within camp was on a highest level so far. It was our best camp, it was our best match, it was our best results. Are there players out who deserve to be with us?

Yes, of course. Are there big personality, special players out? Yes, of course. I think that will never change because we have only a certain amount of players to call up. But there is always a way back into camp with performance. But for this camp, we stick to our decision. Was Jude Bellingham and Phil Foden for that matter quite accepting of your decision? of course and they have no other chance I mean that is the decision if they like it or not

they know my appreciation they know that I clearly see and observe how good Phil is at the moment for man city the check knows that I see how influential he is for Everton and that he is on his way the best version of himself Jude knows that he is a special player and he knows that I know that he is a special player but he is at the moment lacking rhythm he has not one full match after his surgery. So they have to accept it and nothing changes with this decision against them or for the other players. It does not change my appreciation for their talent and their personality. So that's England off the back of 2-0 against Andorra and 5-0, that statement win in Serbia.

But they are notable emissions, John. Oh, yeah, without doubt. I mean, to this point, certainly Bellingham has been an automatic choice of England, certainly in the squad. He is a world star, you know, he's been such a key part. I mean, he's only 22, but he's got 44 caps, scored six goals, and of course, has contributed goals at tournaments. You know, I don't think anyone will ever forget the other head kick against Slovakia that kept England, Garrow Southgate's England, in the tournament.

You know, to think that England perhaps would go to the World Cup next summer without Bellingham, I think is almost unthinkable, but probably off the back of this now becomes slightly less than that, although you know, you would very much expect, you know, we need to see what happens to him between now and then playing for Real Madrid. But I don't know about you, Ian.

Even though he said not, this sounds like a clear message to those who have not been a part of what England were in the international window. all last month. Well, he said, didn't he, that last month they had a high level of work rate and also the high level of spirit within the camp. And this, despite him saying, isn't a message to those who are not here. It clearly is that you've got to probably tow the party line. Well, what he said in the aftermath of Belgrade, it really jumped out to me at the time. Talked about the spirit,

the teamwork, everyone being on their best behavior, about being the best teammate, possible. And as I said to him, you know, he said, there is no attitude after a mistake. He said no waving, no eyeballing, no bad words. And, you know, those are the sorts of things that have been said about Jude Bellingham when he reacts, when things aren't going right for England. And Thomas Tuchel said that's a coincidence. But I don't think it's much of a leap of faith to think that that is a message in Jude Bellingham. direction. The thing is, Ali, is that you've obviously just witnessed at first hand what a team spirit can do, you know, and talking to the Ryder Cup, and you might not necessarily have the individuals. It's all about the collective, isn't it? Yeah, and exactly that. And look at that performance they put in in Belgrade. And I think, you know, quite often when this sort of thing happens, the names that dominate the headlines are the names of the players that are left out. And once again, we forget the names of the players that were involved.

and played so well for England in Belgrade. And I always felt this was going to be the way with Thomas Tuchel. I'm sure you feel the same. That reputation wasn't going to matter. Who you played for, what you've done previously. It's what you do for Thomas Tuchel when you're on these training camps and when you play for England that will matter. I agree with John.

I can't imagine that England will go to the World Cup without Jude Bellingham next summer if he has had enough football by then and he's fit and he doesn't get any injuries and whatever. but I really like the message. I really like the message, the manager being strong and rewarding those players who play well for him and try hard for him. And if you got left out having done that

and someone else got parachuted in who's barely played, then you're going to get disaffected players on the other side. So I think it's a good call. Yeah, I mean, it's Thomas Tuchel from a position of authority after by distance the best performance of his time as the England head coach. You know, he is making it clear what he wants and what he expects from his England players.

You know, he seized the moment to do that, and it is quite easy for him to explain away the selection of this squad, because it is continuity. And the other thing, Ian, just linking it back to the Ryder Cup, I was really struck by Bob McIntey's interview after they won on the final day, and he was talking about, you know, what makes that Ryder Cup team such a great team.

And they repeat the same line every time, he goes at the door they play in an individual sport all the time he goes at the door and he said basically whatever luke donald asks us to do you know if he says jump we say how high that is what mackinty said that is what they all did mackerel ram flea with all these superstars that's how it works and at the same time tom stuckel asked himself during the uh the time that we've been here at wembley listening to him he asked himself several questions and they were are there players out there who deserve to be here? Yes. Is there a way back? 100%. Do I believe we are a stronger team with Jude Bellingham? Yes. So he asked himself those questions, answered those questions,

so there are another series of messages there from him. But he also gave a very clear message regarding Miles Lewis Skelly, where he obviously is not getting much game time in the Premier League in terms of starting games. And he said, to be just a good citizen in camp will not be enough over the course of the year. You have to perform on a club level on a regular basis. And I think that the Arsenal youngster benefits from the fact, John, that the squad was only named

or the last get-together was only three and a half weeks ago. Yeah. And, you know, I can't remember an England squad. Maybe you're going to prove me wrong. But to have as few changes between two England squads. So it's effective, it's three changes from the original squad that was named last month, but from the squad that finished it,

just the one change, which is almost unheard of. Who knows the unfazed two call could be an unintended pub name. As we move on to that and Best Beards, emails to TCV at BBC.co.uk Because facial fuzz

has been a theme on recent episodes. Cat Downs set the tone with her impressive in-depth beard analysis last week. We mentioned, or you mentioned, Teryl Hatton and John Rahm, and then Shane Lowry, of course, sink the put to retain the cup.

Yeah, it was a good week for beards, wasn't that? I guess it was. Mark in Aberdeen has also gone into great detail. Dear Ali, Ian and John, I have a couple of bearded footballer suggestions for you to consider. Supporting evidence is included, which he has. Bearded one, a picture of Yosco Gvardiole.

This beard appears to be like dark moss on a tree trunk, not too thick, but with a clear density. reminiscent of a square of fire retardant office carpet Gvardiel's beard gives him the look of the bearded action man from my youth

I don't think he has eagle eyes though doesn't like Yostovardio moving eyes I didn't realize he's actually supplied the year it's there

now I would have to say there that Mark from Aberdeen that's an action man from the 70s well without doubt it's the action man adventurer right yeah but it is

That beard is remarkably similar to Yosco Gavardials. Do you want to read out the evidence that he's provided for beard hashtag 2? Yes, beard too from Mark is Gratziano Pella, formerly of Southampton. A different style of beard, says Mark. Similar to Olivier Giroux, I think, cultured, angular, almost musketeer standard, or perhaps more Dolce and Gabana catwalk. keep up the good work really enjoy the pod Mark Aberdeen

I think that's quite a good compare and contrast between the two because I think I don't know I could be wrong about this but it strikes me that Vardial doesn't have to work too hard on that beard that's just that's just there and he probably doesn't mess around with that too much just a little bit of trimming here and there Graziano Pella and you know

you know the kind of beards we're talking about there's a lot of craft and sculpting and time and energy that goes into making that look just so I think and we've got one more Mike in Sevenoaks at one point this is a good shout from Mike actually Crystal Palace had both Joe Ledley

and Millie Yedinac in their midfield now surely that makes Palace the hairiest midfield in recent Premier League history and actually Mike's Mike's put a picture there is a picture of the pair of them and that is a that's a great shout actually hairy heads hairy chins lots of hair

that could be a great contrast to Everton's midfield of Lee Carsley and Thomas Graveson which was the midfield with the least hair and the midfield with the most hair and Miller Yedinak is an excellent was is an excellent beard do you know what we should do in the buildup to

children in need I'm not liking the sound of this already we should see who could grow the bushiest beard between the three of us well you told me in recently you said to me I can't remember the last time I had a shave That's what you said to me recently.

I know. And I actually nearly came a cropper when I was in Istanbul this week. Because, as in Istanbul, do what the Romans do, I went for a Turkish shave. And before I knew it, he lathered me up on my chin. And he went, I'd give you baby face. And I went, yeah, okay, no problem. And I'm used to having a Turkish shave at my local barbers anyway. And all of a sudden it dawned to me what he was going to do.

he was going to take off my designer stubble that's how I would describe it not a beard and I went no no no no I said just a trim otherwise I would have I would have been

like a baby face assassin here today smooth it could take the years off you down it could have done yeah that could be that could be an unintended pub name the unshaven Dennis what I'd like to know as well

is possibly one for our friend Bill Edgar is has that midfield come up against each other in Premier League history, so have Yedinac and Ledley come up against Graveson and Carsley. Has that happened? Because if it has, then we need to know. This weekend, our offerings on 5 live, Arsenal, West Ham, Saturday, Saturday. Saturday is on Sports Extra. Manchester United against Sunderland. On Saturday, John, you're joined by Pat Nevin for Chelsea against Liverpool. That's the 530 kickoff. Small matter of. Small matter of, indeed. Newcastle against Nottingham,

Forest is at 2 on Sunday. Ali's joined by Clinton Morrison, the pressure certainly intensifying on Ange Poster Coglu already by the Forest supporters. Everton Palace is on Sports Extra at 2. Villa Burnley is on the BBC website and app. And Wolves, Brighton, Hove Albion, another 2 o'clock kickoff is also on the BBC's support website and app. And Brentford, Manchester City, where John will be joined by Mark Schwarzer, is at 4.30.

Big one then, isn't it, for Ange? Yeah, it's, I mean, that seems, he's had so little time, hasn't he, to actually work with those players and try to get things the way he wants them, and he's had Marillo out injured and, you know, various things to deal with. I just think, not just with Ange Poster Coglu, if you come in as a manager and a certain section of the support right from the start decides, you know, we're not keen on this. appointment we're not going to give this fellow a chance it then becomes immensely difficult because

you always feel right from the start i mean i think of russell martin at rangers in a similar position whatever he does now from this point in it's not going to be enough it's almost as if you know that section of fans are waiting for it to go wrong and that makes it makes it really really difficult and you know i think it's well obviously it's newcastle on sunday after the international break it's chelsea so there's two two really difficult games he's without a win in six so um that is not He's also the first permanent forest manager for 100 years to fail to win any of his first six matches. But right at the outset when he was appointed, virtually everyone said, is this a squad that has been assembled that can play football the way that Anj Poster Cogli wants his team to play football?

So should we necessarily expect him to have, you know, work one, in the first few matches. Yeah. But I agree that once the supporters have turned, it's very, very hard to try and pull that and haul it back to try and get them back on side. And is the fact that they're not convinced by Poster Couglin?

Is that all based on Tottenham's league form last season? Because he did win a European trophy. The season before that, Tottenham went well in the league, and he's had lots of success everywhere else he's been. So it does seem harsh to me. Now, Ian, tell us what you've found. when you made your first trip of the season to Selhurst Park last weekend? Well, I've got to be honest with you.

I knew it was there because Aaron Paul had sent me a message to say, have you seen what's in the press box, our comedy position, at Selhurst Park? And Five Live, I think it's fair to say, has made its mark because there was a quote from one of my commentaries. It was actually from 2017 where Palace had beaten Chelsea. And I said every Crystal Palace fan has risen to their feet. I do not think there is a better atmosphere in the Premier League than Selhurst Park. So that quote is on one part of the wall as you walk down sort of like the press box. And before you actually get to it, they've got your quote, John, from the FA Cup final.

The whistle goes. Crystal Palace have just won the FA Cup. They've beaten Manchester City. What a turn-up this is. What a moment for all of South London. John Murray, BBC Radio 5 Live. And the writing is in Royal Blue and Red. And you can't help.

but it's very striking. Fair play to Crystal Palace. It's a lovely touch. But then did you see one of the responses on social media when I put it on? He's a chap called Lewis who replied to my social media post. He's got a tattoo, John,

of all of your words at full time when Palace won the FA Cup. It has the Wembley arch on it and then below it, your minute-long speech down the back of his calf, including, what a moment for all of South London. The scenes and the stands here,

the flags, the celebration, I swear you can hear half of Wembley shaking right now. I have to say, I'm quite humbled by that. I don't think that's ever happened before to my words from a commentary that somebody has had that tattooed on themselves. So... It's on his left calf. Yeah, so Lewis Carey, I am genuinely touched by that.

Has he got Community Shield commentary on the other calf? Well, from the picture from Lewis, we can only see his left leg. Mind you, the way that Oliver Glasner has got Palace playing at the minute on a club record run of 19 games undefeated, if he continues to, every time that Palace get a landmark victory, the community shield is now going to go on his right calf. You know, he could be covered in head to toe from tattoos all to do with Crystal Palace. Ian, has anyone, because as we speak now,

I've not still not long back from New York. And, of course, Ali was there as well. You watched them win in the way that they did against the champions last weekend. Has anyone seriously suggested that they might be capable of winning the Premier League this season? They haven't yet, no. Should they be floating that?

Well, the worry would be, from a Crystal Palace point of view, is have they got the strength in depth? Yeah. However. And they are playing in the conference. as well, of course. They were superb against Liverpool,

and I don't think anybody could have argued had they gone in at half-time, either four, five-nil up. They were that good, and they made Liverpool look ragged. And I would certainly think that the way they are playing, if they can keep everybody fit,

they could easily qualify for the Champions League. Yeah. I think that would be a more realistic target. But I mean, they're a good team. They've got good players, even though they've sold the players that they have, Oliver Glasner is clearly a very, very good coach, and I'm thinking back to when I saw them at the end of last season, you know, what they did in the run-in, starting off that run, the way that they outwitted Aston Villa in the semi-final in the way that they did, the way that they outwitted Manchester City in the final, won the Community Shield against Liverpool, beaten them again in the league. Isn't that quite a strong body of evidence?

It is. It's definitely, it's got underlying feelings of view. you know what yeah but how many games are we in you i don't i don't think we'd start talking of title if they're still there come march then you would say that you're not i agree with that you're not you're not a title contender in the month of october are you no you're not but they're not out of it yet either i mean if i said to you am i a title contender for clash of the commentators what would you say i would say you're the favorite ian well you're everyone's favorite aren't you you're our favorite you're the housewife's favorite you're just the favourite.

Well, I wouldn't. I don't think that's the case at all. Well, if you'd had a shave and they'd seen that baby face of yours. From the start of your day to the moment you head home. Join Five Live for the latest news, the stories everyone's sharing

and the biggest debates. This is a really important moment. The days of sweeping this under the rug are over. Let's just get up and chip away and make a difference. Whatever the day throws at you, will help make sense of it. From the headlines to the details that matter. Wake up with 5 Live breakfast from 6

and go home with 5 Live Drive from 4. Weekdays on BBC Radio 5 Live. The commentator's view on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Well, last season's champion Ali is rooted at the bottom of the league table. And last week, Ali, beat the golf correspondent. that Ian Carter on cocktails and New York sports teams I've got to say by the way I've listened to both of the episodes that I've missed I would have cleaned up on the cocktails last week as well I think you've shown signs of complacency well we'll see you've talked the talk well the last two weeks when you weren't in it well it's it weren't part of it and you've you've boasted afterwards that that you would have won both of them well we will we will see but but I'm also not having this either.

So that ended Ali's three-match losing run, but it was only an exhibition. So it counts for nothing. It counts for nothing. So the current standings, I'm three from three, I'm top. John, you're still floundering a little bit, really. Two from five. And Ali, one from four, three defeats in a row in the league.

And this week, it is going to be the leader, Ian, versus the reigning champion, Ali. So who is going to go first? So you and me, Ian, are in the same room. Let Ian go first. Let Ian go first. I will unplug. Okay. I think it's a good question, Ian. Yes, he's gone. It's a good question, Ian. I think you're quite like this. I'll be the jitch of that. Yeah. And there are quite a few answers. So, this week, Arsenal made it two wins from two in the Champions League.

And our three o'clock Saturday commentary on Five Live this week that you'll be doing, Ian, is Arsenal versus West Ham. Simply, I want you to name any player to have turned out for both Arsenal and West Ham. Your time starts now. Oh, blimey. Clive Allen. Ray Parlor. I'm floundering. I can't think.

I've got out of a brain freeze. Freddie Lungberg. The Graham Ricks. Tommy King. Oh, Robson. Stuart Robson. Got that one in. After all that boasting.

Yeah. There we are then. That wasn't very good. Although, see, Ali's come back from New York. Might still be jet-lagged. I think that's quite a tricky. I would not, personally, today, I would not like to have been asked that.

No, no. You need to be quite fresh. I know today you've just driven down, haven't you? You've just driven from home to London. I got up very early this morning. Yeah, you're up early. Yeah. Yeah.

So there are, you know, maybe not at your freshest. No. Yeah. Okay, Ali's just bringing his headphones back on. He is. Welcome back. Welcome back to Alist and Bruce Ball. So, Ali, this week, as you know,

Arsenal made it two wins out of two in the Champions League. And our three o'clock Saturday commentary this week is Arsenal against West Ham I want you simply and there are quite a lot of answers here I want you to name any player to have turned out for both Arsenal and West Ham

your time starts now Arsenal West Ham I can't think of a single one I literally can't think of a single one West Ham and Arsenal what in any area No, my mind has gone completely black. There'll be loads. There'll be loads.

I'm not going to get any here. I'm going to have to admit defeat. That's what you get. I've got out of jail. You've got massively out of jail there. He hardly got any. Yeah, it's difficult. That's very difficult.

But he got more than none. But we missed. Yeah. Fair enough. Oh, that's poor. Yeah. I hope John, like. You, he doesn't listen back.

Someone will tell him. I think I got three. Oh, well done. You maybe even just go. No. Graham Ricks is not on our list. No, there'd have been Stuart Robson. Oh, Stuart Robson?

Does Stuart Robson? West Ham. Yeah. Stuart Robson, Freddie Lungberg and Clyde Allen. Clive Allen. Ian Wright. Ian Wright. Clive Allen for West Ham?

Didn't Clive Allen play for West Ham? Yeah. Didn't play for Arsenal? Because, of course, he moved to Arsenal, but never played famously. Yeah, I know. but he still was at Arsenal Let me just check what the to have turned out

but Arsenal and West Ham was the question that's the question well it doesn't matter anyway that's four from four he's won again I've got away what about

let me give you some Mavropanos yep Maripanos let me get the most notable ones amazingly neither of you said Declan Rice of course

Declan Rice yeah Fabianski Nigel Winterburn Samia Nasri and then there's a long list of of which Matthew Upsner's on there

Jack Wilshire Wilshire yeah Ian Wright played for West Ham remember at the end of his career who was going to pick out from that John Hartson our old friend John Yeah yeah

Did Tommy Kate in play Not that I remember No But anyway it was good question You went to Mancetti didn't he Yeah Yeah good question Although I think that's one of those

where clearly, because I've got none, I'm going to say this, that needs a little bit of pondering. I think 30 seconds, that's quite hard, as I've proved. You did. You proved that in good style. Yeah. So now... I sort of gave up.

I gave up in the end. So this is the picture now at the top of the table. Ian is top of the table with four from four. A Tommy Fleetwood style, four from four. Very good. That's very good. Second place, me, two from four. five and then

Ali one from five and that is now four defeats in a row in the league four competitive defeats in a row yeah fans fans could be turning

that's almost Murray-esque it is well he's got a bit to go I very much hold the record there well played everyone particularly well played Ian well actually your boasting was well it wasn't really well played at all it was a pretty poor effort

from both of us. But a win is a win, as they say, and you move on, as we do now, because it's now time for the Great Glossary of Football Commentary, where we add listener suggestions of football-specific commentary terms and phrases to our collection. And another thing that was decided in my absence is that Division 1 and Division 2 have been introduced. Yeah, well, when the cat's away. So Division 1 is now for football exclusive terms, and Division 2 are for terms used in football commentary,

but also used in other sports. This could wreak havoc with my plans for the book. No. Why should that? Well, the book will become more interesting. Oh, right, okay. Like the world tour. Last week, you had Thunder a Strike.

That's great. That's great. Football, that's great. Oh, yeah, sorry, yeah. Which I actually heard you say, that's great Rider Cup golf. Ali, I definitely heard you say that. And one for the cameras,

all of which we allocated to Division 2. Now we had some excellent work from Five Lives Mark Scott during Aston Villa Fulham last weekend. Surely a shi at goal you fancy here from Luca Dina who runs up to it and bends it goalwards and Lano gets across to make a safe gather. That's one for the cameras there from Burt Lano but it may have been on target from Luca Dina.

And we also had this from Wednesday's Football Daily our 72 plus EFL pod with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnuff. Walker, long way out, shot from him. Oh, brilliant. Jamie Walker finds the top corner where the spider sleep right into that postage stamp. The commentator's view, can we just do like an internal memo here at Five Live to John Murray, Ali, Bruce, Bowie and Dennis and the rest of the gang on the commentator's view? Where the Spider's Sleep, that is excellent commentary.

I love that. Give that commentator a bake and roll. That would be Matt Dean, wouldn't it? It would. Yes, he was Matt. Who I know listens a lot. Does he? There we are then.

So Matt has come up trumps there with where the spider sleeps. So our only term in Division 1 so far, is that right? Is the Croft turn? I think since Div 1 came in. Oh, since it came in, that's the only one we've put into Division 1. So emails to TCV at BBC.com. for the Great Glossary or for anything else, and Kenneth in Glasgow has written in.

He says, I did wonder how long the glossary could go on, but the addition of the Croif Turn showed me it still has a lot of mileage left. In fact, I immediately turned my mind to footballers who have become associated with something specific. Unfortunately, I couldn't think of any. So I popped down to my local,

the audacious Penenka for inspiration. Still can't think of anything. I'll order another pint of that nice Belgian beer to see if anything comes. It's called Bosman. And the best thing about it is, it's totally free. Next time we're in Glasgow,

I'll die you one. Excellent email that. Yeah, very good. The audacious Penenka. Yeah. That is excellent, isn't it? I'd really fancy a think of the audacious Panenka. Especially if it's free.

No, the Bosman's free. But Penenka has to go in. I mean, Penenka is, that is Div 1. That is exclusively to football competition. And, of course, we've been there this season. The stadium where it happened, which I mean, that was almost one of the highlights of the trip. And I know I've been there before and thought that before, but I'd forgotten.

But the Red Star Belgrade Stadium is where Antonin Penenka took the penalty that became the original Penenka. It's one of the things I love about our job and going to stadiums in Europe, because during the commentary in Bill Bough, although it's a renovated stadium now, but Bill Bough is where Brian Robson scored after 27 seconds in the 1982 World Cup. And when you get to cities like that and stadiums like that, you think, wow, I remember that goal.

I remember as a kid watching that goal, and now I'm in the place where that goal was scored. On a similar issue, this theme, but slightly different, where we are speaking to you from now is the referees room at Wembley, which has obviously been totally rebuilt, with the stadium, but I think, you know, the original referees room at Wembley would be where the Russian linesman got ready to go out there for the World Cup

final in 1966. He was actually from Azerbaijan, wasn't it? Yeah, he was. And made the decision that Jeffurst's shot had struck the crossbar and crossed the line. Knott's County fan Andrew gets in touch, TCV at BBC.co.com. A couple of suggested additions for the first division, the Robona, and not to be confused with Ribina he says and the old classic onion bag for the goal net

I'm pretty sure this isn't used anywhere else but in football commentary and at the greengrocers so what do we think chaps the Robona and the onion bag well the Robona's also been mentioned by John in Newcastle yeah and that is another great suggestion where did that come from originally what language is that Robona? True question don't know

well people can let us know TCV at BBC.co.com. We've also had Onion Bag from Richard in Nova Scotia. Have we heard from him before? We've definitely heard from Nova Scotia before, haven't we? Also, Errol in the USA, Roy in New Zealand and Suresh in India, among many, many others. So onion bag is actually a very, very popular suggestion. I would say Onion Bag is going to go in Division 1.

Okay. I'm good for that. Wouldn't you, Ali? I'm happy. Yeah, no, I'm happy with that. You know, me, I wave everything through this. He's doing at a minute, yeah. I've not used onion bag in a commentary for a long time, but very much recognize it as a term.

I possibly have never used it. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, but I remember it would certainly be used in the Victor comic when I was growing up. And certainly Roy of the Rovers would mention the onion bag. Absolutely certain. Do you own an onion bag, John? I don't own an onion bag. Have you gotten an onion bag?

No. I just thought it's one of the kind of things that you might have. From my rural upbringing. Well, just a man who knows his onions. Well, also, we have a voice note. It's Cameron from Newport in South Wales here. Now, this is a second-time voice note. The first time I submitted a suggestion, Daisy Cutter, it was rejected.

So I wonder now we have a division two, whether or not it can be accepted into there. And talking of new terms to be accepted into Division 2, I recently found myself describing another abject Newport County performance to my friend in the term the opposition played us off the park, referring to when a team quite simply outclass us on the pitch. Well Cameron, thank you for the voice notes, by the way, I enjoyed that. 08,000-289-369 if you want to do what Cameron has done. He also says if we let Daisy Cutter in, it will make his 89-year-old granddad in Cumbria a very happy chat. So I'm going to say both of those suggestions go into Division

2. Well, I remember the original suggestion from Cameron and we said no because it was used in cricket, wasn't it? You know, a Daisy cutter, a drive through, you know, through the covers. But that was during the era when we weren't accepting anything. But on this occasion, I think it goes into Division 2. A thirdid. We've also had a suggestion from Martin in L.A. You don't hear it often anymore,

but the term Purple Patch should be in there in the new Division 1. For example, he's having a Purple Patch. The player has been playing well for a few weeks or more. That can't go in Division 1, Purple Patch. It could definitely go in Division 2.

Division 2. Yeah. Yeah. So we've got... I mean, Purple Patch applies to many sports as well as Clash of the Commentators. Yes, and there's no one more purple than you. Well, actually, I disagree because you are actually wearing a purple shirt.

You've got a purple face. So, we've allowed quite a few into Division I this week, haven't we? You can't see my face. I haven't had it shaved off yet. We've allowed the Penenka, Bosman, the Robona, onion bag. Division I's filling up. And I'm, I believe we have our sound effect ready. Hooray!

You did that without your lips. Is that forgetting in Div 1? Must be. Excellent. Underwhelmed. And in Division 2. No expense spared. No.

And in Division 2, Daisy Cutter, and played us off the park. I would say that Ian played me off the park in Clash the Commentators today, if we're going to use another glossary term. And also, I suppose we do have to discuss where the spider's sleep, which is Matt's variation on a series of favourites. But it is slightly different, isn't it? Where the spider sleep? Yeah.

That's a Matt Dean original. Well, isn't that just a variation of where the owl sleeps? Yeah. We've got where the cuckabra sleeps, where the owl sleeps. And should we put all of those in the... The spider's sleep? Oh, I would have thought so. I was going to say they're industrious.

Yeah, industrious. Famously industrious. So they probably do need to sleep a little bit like you and me, Ali, after the week that we've had. Yeah, yeah. Well, just very quickly on that, I don't know how you two chap sleep on planes. But I find it quite hard to sleep on planes and coming back from the States, I always get back to the UK absolutely exhausted. After the Ryder Cup this week, I was so tired. I sat down in an aisle seat on the plane and I slept for six hours solid, just straight.

wake me at all. And the woman who was sitting by the window on the plane tried to wake me and couldn't and had to clamber over me to go to the loo. That is how tired I was after the Royal Cup. Didn't wake you up? I remember Celtic Manor, because it finished on the Monday, spilled over into the Monday, I then, probably for football reasons, I then have to drive back home from Celtic Manor to the north. And I remember now, I was so tired. I think I had to stop for three lengthy sleeps in the car. on the way back from Celtic Manow, so tired. So thank you, John. Thank you, Al.

I keep the unintended pub names and glossary suggestions coming in. The email, TCV at BBC.com.uk. Voice notes on WhatsApp to 08,289-369. So that's it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one will be the football interview with Liverpool's Hugo Eckertike. As for us here on the commentator's view, well, John will be back next week. so tune in for that and you can catch up

on all of the other episodes through the Five Live Football Daily Food Are you going on the train Are you driving to Newcastle? Yeah, doing the train I'm going on a train Saturday and then back Sunday

Yeah, I'm looking forward to actually I don't often get there So well you say that Have you seen the weather forecast? Yeah, terrible Terrible. You're going to get soaked, mate Yeah

You're going to be travelling over in your underpants Yeah I'll get the old golf waterproofs on You might need them You might need them Thanks for your optimism Okay Look at those two

Have a good weekend They're games in London Smug as you like Took the Took them at Stamford Bridge See nicely Welcome to the brand new podcast series Rugby League

Top 10 with me Mark Chapman It's where John Wilkin Brian Noble and Jamie Peacock Will discuss, debate And argue over lists At the best players Games, finals iconic moments

And plenty of other categories That will no doubt Leave you screaming at your device The most entertaining parts of our sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool. Yeah. I mean, that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is.

Yeah, no. I think we've all managed to carry that battle. Rugby League top ten. Listen on BBC Sounds.