Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: BIG NEWS, UCL Final & biscuits vs cookies

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball talk football, travel & language. Ali reflects on his whirlwind trip to Wrocław to see Chelsea win the UEFA Conference League. John is in Munich for the Champions League Final between PSG and Inter Milan. Will John salvage some pride in Clash of the Commentators? And which terms will be added or removed from the Great Glossary of Football Commentary?WhatsApp voicenotes to 08000 289 369 Emails to [e-mail]00:45 Ali’s whistlestop visit to Wrocław, 07:10 Should English clubs be in the Conference League? 11:20 Ali emulates Alan Green 14:05 John in Munich for Champions League Final 15:10 BIG NEWS 27:00 Champions League Final preview 33:45 Clash of the Commentators 40:47 Great Glossary of Football CommentaryBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries next weekend: Fri 1945 England v Portugal in the UEFA Women’s Nations League, Sat 2000 PSG v Inter Milan in the UEFA Champions League Final.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, welcome to the football daily. I'm Ian Dennis. This is the commentators view where we take you behind the microphone, discuss the language of football and reveal what life is like for us five live commentators and ahead of the UEFA Champions League final we have our correspondent John Murray and fresh from doing the UEFA Conference League final Alistair Bruce Ball. Good and tag. Still continental. I was expecting Ali to come in with the Polish which would be Jean Dobry. That's good Ian. Yeah. I was expecting Ali to come in with the Polish, not you. Yeah. Do you know what John, I was in the country for 30 hours around the

UEFA Conference League final so we heard all about Ian's travels to and from Bilbao last week. I got to Wroclaw just after midnight on the Tuesday night and then my flight left Wroclaw at 10 to 6 in the morning on Thursday after the final so I didn't see any of Wroclaw. A whistle stop visit so after all of that talk last week when I was telling you what to look out for in Wroclaw you haven't seen any of it. No I tell you what did you mention the Wroclaw dwarves?'t seen any of it. No, I tell you what, did you mention the Wroclaw dwarves? No. So something I read up about was they have hundreds of these little sort of statues. Now you mention it,

I remember it. Yeah, I think there's something like 800 of them around the city and the idea is that you sort of walk around the city and try and tick off as many as you can. I didn't see a single one actually, it was literally hotel, taxi, stadium, taxi, airport, home. How many did you say there were? 800. 800. So if you were only there for 30 hours, how many would you have had to have ticked off

each hour? It's almost 30 an hour that, isn't it, because 30 times 30 is 900, so you're probably between 25 and 30 an hour that isn't it because 30 times 30 is 900 so you're probably between 25 and 30 an hour. Yeah there's a question for anyone who's listening to this while they're revising for their GCSEs and after those 30 hours were you left happy or grumpy or sneezy? Sleepy? Definitely, definitely sleepy. I was sleepy I caught up on a bit of sleep yesterday. I thought it was a really interesting one because going over there, I think I probably said to you both, I'd said to a few people, I was quite interested on how to pitch it as a commentary in terms of how the Chelsea

fans were viewing it as a final and as a competition. And certainly in the build up to the final when we were over there, you know, I traveled over with some Real Betis fans from Amsterdam they were massively up for it, they were so excited, it was such a big deal for them and much less of a big deal for Chelsea. Then obviously you know Betis played brilliantly in the first half, I think we all agree Pat and Evan Mark Schwartzer and I that Enzo Maresca probably didn't get the team selection right at the start, made the change at half time. Not particularly Malogusto's fault but things certainly improved for Chelsea in the second half. And by the time it finished

you only have to see the reaction of the Chelsea players to see what it meant to them. Whatever you think about that as a competition, they're competitive animals aren't they playing in a knockout match in a final. No one likes to lose a final and the fans, you know, the fans absolutely loved it as well and now they can boast they've got a set of European trophies that no other club can match. So I really it was a better game of football than the one you saw in Bilbao as well definitely Ian. Yeah well I actually did what you did, I synced up the pictures to your commentary and listened to you and Mark, but the year of the bird doesn't extend to Real Batis. Los Verderones, the green birds, were not flying. They were flying in the first half. The real delight was Isco. To sit and watch, you know, I can't remember the

last time I watched him play live, you know, it would have been a Real Madrid game back in the day, but in that team he's surrounded by so many other players Who certainly in terms of reputation without shining him. He was absolutely outstanding in the first half in terms of bossing a game of football and and Chelsea couldn't get anywhere near him and then the Delight was Cole Palmer Taken over in the second half and I know you will have seen it the assist for the second goal was was was magical Did you know that Isco is the Spanish for Chaffinch? Oh is it really?

I didn't know that You made a note? I made it up Nearly have me Yeah I mean their fans were brilliant the Betis fans I mean partly the green and white looked fantastic in the stadium because it's not a unique color in football But it's a very distinctive color So the end that they occupied and the noise that they were making and the constant drum beat

They sort of really made the final, the build-up and the first half and they were genuinely their fans and players genuinely devastated. I mean floods of tears afterwards, devastated to lose it. That's a great club to go to Ian isn't it? We've been there, it was actually one of my very very first European trips doing this job. I went there with Chelsea back in the 90s and you know we've been back quite a number of times since then haven't we? And I remember going there once and they gave us, I can't quite remember how that worked out,

but anyways, some of the people at Bettis gave us a tour of the ground and they were absolutely charming. In fact, I think it was when we were there for the match in Seville, for the England match in Seville. That's right, it was. Raoul Bettis invited us to, you know,

a group of the media to come over and, you know, told us all about the club and the history and there's a real bond there with those supporters and, you know, anyone who's listening is to talk and thinking of going off, I don't know, on a football tour of Europe somewhere. Sevilla is a great choice Ian, isn't it? Oh, it's a beautiful city, yeah. I've only been to the Real Betis ground once and that was with England but I had an obscure thought when I was listening to Ali and watching it the shirts reminded me of the the sweets the

Pacers remember them they're minty type opal fruits yeah what whatever happened to the Pacer sweets well they faded into obscurity didn't they sadly yeah I didn't use that on Wednesday night in but I definitely in a football commentary years and years ago I've commentated on the team playing in green and white stripes and use that very Simile into you know, they I don't because I remember that I enjoyed I enjoyed a packet of places The other thing it made me think you know chaps was whatever you think of the UA for Conference League I think Nottingham Forest fans should be really excited about playing in that competition next season. I know, you know, had they got into the Champions League,

you'd be going to some of the most famous stadiums, the most high profile clubs. You're going to get some fantastic trips out of that conference league and a chance to win it. If you look at it so far, Leicester in the first season of it made the semi-finals, got knocked out by Roma. I mean, English clubs should do well in this competition. West Ham won it. Villa got to the semi-finals last season beaten by Olympiakos and Chelsea have won it. But it has I know been suggested throughout the course of the season and I think also since Chelsea actually won the tournament that perhaps that competition the Conference League

if your country's UEFA coefficient is above a certain level, then that's not for you. That it should actually be a competition that can be won by an inverted con of some of the not so strong leagues. What do we think of that? I would agree with that. I also think this extra merit performance for the leagues, I don't agree with that. I don't think it's right that England should have six teams in the Champions League next season. And I know why, and we're gearing ourselves now towards, you know, it's effectively a Super League all but in name. But if you think about it, the dominance of the Premier League in the various European competitions, the English coefficient will very very, unless it's unusual, will always be in the top three, if not the top two. And therefore the English

clubs are always going to benefit with the extra place. And I just think that now England have got six clubs in the Champions League, Spain have got five haven't they? I think it's going to be very very hard to try and wrestle that away from the English sides. Did you also know, and I didn't know until a few hours before the final that Chelsea could choose whether they wanted to play in the Champions League or the Europa League next season having won that Conference League final. Now obviously they're not going to choose the Europa League but it sort of revolves around this discussion we're having if a team from a country with a lower coefficient felt they were going to get into the Champions League but go into the qualifying stages of it

and might not make the league phase it would make sense for them potentially to choose the Europa League but I just wasn't aware of that until a few hours before the final. I think I did read that. I think that was on one of the many emails that we've received about all of the various permutations. I think that was on there. But I think for some clubs across Europe that would be a decision to make, that you could go straight into the league phase of the Europa League which brings with it riches, not the riches of the Champions League, as opposed to gambling on a play-off round or two and missing out altogether. You'd have to say though it's a great few days for Chelsea. I suggested that on social media

because their average age in the Premier League was I think the youngest, just over 24 years. And everyone said, oh yeah, what a great underdog story. They spent over a billion pounds. I'm not talking about Chelsea as a football club. I'm talking as a group of players in their development. The fact that they had to go into their much bigger game against Nottingham Forest at last weekend, clinched Champions League qualification,

and yet days later, well Real Betis had had at least 48 hours extra rest, then went and secured a European trophy. For them young players, those few days, that was a big deal for them. And look at the end of the season they've had Ian with some of the stick the manager Enzo Marescu was getting from his own fans you know won four of their last five games in the Premier League to get Champions League football and as you say then then did get a proper test in in the final you know and were one nil down at halftime and turned it around and won it I think I think that yeah I totally agree with you. Did you get to

sit in on that press conference which has been widely circulated involving Tosin Adora-Boyo and Cole Palmer, which I very much enjoyed Cole Palmer on that. I particularly enjoyed him going very off message didn't you, when he was asked about the creation of the two goals and he said that he'd had enough of going backwards and sideways. He's a one-off isn't he? He you know what on the full-time whistle I was trying to get my eyes on him in particular because he was so instrumental in turning that game around and he was in the group of players and they were all very it was quite a funny image because they were all they were like school kids in the technical area with the water bottles and they were squirting them at Mareska and Mareska was like the headmaster trying to sort of calm

them down and then the full-time whistle went and they all squirting them at Maresca and Maresca was like the headmaster trying to sort of calm them down and Then the full-time whistle went and they all came rushing on but not Palmer Palmer just strolled on as if it was like as if he just finished a training session and Just that's it's just him isn't he's just a complete one-off. It's the way he is and also Ali Let's have a listen to this because with the commentary on Wednesday night you went full Alan Green Manchester United 1999 when Jadon Sancho scored in the final so let's have a listen. I don't believe it but it's happened they've come from 1-0 down in Stobbegstein to beat Bayern Munich and the Munich players are on their knees they don't know what's hit them Manchester's hit them.

Oh finish what a goal, that's going to win it for Chelsea, what a way to do it. Jadon Sancho rips off his shirt, work the ball onto his right foot and curls it sweetly into the top corner. Real Betis don't know what's hit them in this second half, Chelsea's young guns have hit them. It's Real Betis 1, Chelsea 3. And that was one, Ali, wasn't it? Where you pretty much you are 99% certain that that is clinching it for Chelsea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just before that, actually, that was the one where Nicholas Jackson had gone through was was two on one.

He had Sancho running alongside him at two one up to kill it, basically, because Betis had to throw everything at it to try and get back in the game he messed that up but yeah it was so late in the game once that had gone in but you know what John I have heard that Alan Green commentary plenty of times it's only just now hearing it that I realized I've sort of used the same line and actually in terms of I mean the Bayern Munich players that was a proper don't know what's hit them, wasn't it? Because that turnaround was so dramatic at the end of that game, whereas this one wasn't

quite that. But what I wish I had described, and I did spot as Sancho was celebrating, but I didn't quite have time to get to it, is that the best body language, the body language of their players was, right that's it, we're stuffed now, 3-1, we can't do it. And there was a loose boot, someone's boot had come off on the pitch and one of the centre-packs picked up the boot and just slung it like off the pitch just in sheer frustration and it was quite sort of cartoon like and comic and I never got to describe it but it amused me it did amuse me. Ior used, Leon don't know what's hit them. He did.

The other week. Yeah. He did. I think we referenced it in one of the previous episodes, didn't we? And then to the Spanish superiority, because if you take into account the World Cups, European Championships, Champions League, UEFA Cup slash Europa League and Conference League,

of the last 28 men's finals involving Spanish teams, 27 have had Spanish winners and that record was a 100% winning one until Chelsea triumphed in Poland. It was Liverpool Alavest wasn't it? 2001 I think that's the one you go back to before Chelsea did that against Robertis. That was on my brother-in-law's 50th birthday incidentally. Very good. How's Munich John? Is Herr Chapman in Munich with you? Because he really should be shouldn't he? Herr Chapman is not joining us in Munich for this one which I mean is a missed opportunity isn't it? It would be lovely to see Herr Chapman back in Germany. I had a message from Herr Chapman actually

and I nearly threw this one in earlier when we were talking about Happy and Grumpy. And I said, oh, that's a grumpy reminds me of some correspondents from him because he still listens despite him saying that he's stopped. He called me last week to say, by the way, just because you get eight emails saying that you're better than the Monday nightclub, you're not you're not more popular than we are. Wow, it's not under his skin is it? I said to him I said I thought you'd stop listening he went well he says nearly fell asleep listening to you on the way to bath last week so did did amuse me

that. We've got another eight emails coming up some of some of which again are excellent this week and one of which actually touches on that very subject Ian. Oh does it? So stay tuned. Herr Chapman stay tuned. Also stay tuned because we have some big news talking of which we've got an email from Martin in Beverly is the secret location of the not to be mentioned first stop of the world tour anywhere near Yorkshire if so hope to see you there. Martin, do not go anywhere. This is the big news.

Oh it is, we're doing it now are we? We're about to announce it. And I can tell Martin in Beverley that we can now finally reveal our big news. And for you, Martin, it may well be a worldly of an announcement. Because Ben in Portugal has wrote to us saying, now that the football season is drawing to a close and assuming you're granted some time off, do you have anything planned for your summer holidays?

Well, Ben, we won't be on the beach this summer, we're going to be holding, dare I say, the small matter of our first live show. Which could potentially Ian be the start of the much talked about world tour that you've been pushing for ever since about episode 3 of the commentators view this season. Was it as late as that? It might even have been earlier than that. But anyway, so the news is, and this is very much one for the commentators view listeners because what is happening is BBC sounds has been announced as the official fringe festival partner

of the crossed wires Wires Festival, which is the UK's biggest podcasting celebration, which will take place in the footballing hotbed of Sheffield from the fourth to the sixth of July this summer. So less than, well, just a couple of months away. That was a great reveal John so yes over three days BBC Sounds are inviting podcasts and radio fans to experience live podcast recordings and special sessions in the

old Cole Brothers department store in Barkers Pool Sheffield. So that's where you'll find us yes we can now confirm after much anticipation that Football Daily's commentators view will be one of the live shows. So you will be able to watch me and Ian Dennis on Friday the 4th of July so that is the opening day of the festival from 3 p.m. at the old Cole Brothers department store, which has got comedy possibilities written all over it, but I'm sure we'll come to that. But it's only Ian, you and me. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm not available for selection. I mean, I'm tempted now to sort of leave the family holiday and come and join the audience and throw a couple of questions

to you two. No, I'm away. I'd already booked a bit of summer holiday, I'm down in Cornwall on that date so I'm going to leave you two to it. There'll be great disappointment there for our regulars when they turn up and you're not there. Do you think? I do, I do. I'm sure that the BBC will put you on a car to take you from Cornwall to South Yorkshire. It's not as holidays.

It's not just us though, who are there of course. You will also be able to watch other live shows like Newscast, Evil Genius, and even a special edition of Radio 2's Book Club with Sarah Cox, where she sits down with the best-selling author, David Nicholls. So, how do you get there, I hear you say. Tickets for the BBC Fringe lineup go live on Friday the 6th

of June at 11am and they are completely free. You can reserve seats for individual shows online via the crossedwires.live website. So crossedwires.live. dot live website so crossed wires dot live we're told the entry on the day is going to be first come first served even with a ticket so we do recommend arriving early uh... to make sure you can get your place so a reminder the festival will take place from the fourth to the sixth of july but the commentators view will be on the first of those days so that's the friday at three p.m. You excited

John? Well I presume this will be also advertised on various BBC platforms and I must say Ian I don't know about you but I didn't ever necessarily see myself appearing at the UK's biggest podcasting celebration did you? No I didn't no I'll be honest with you. Although we did, do you remember when we did that live show, we did a Q&A once in Hull? Do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah I do. Yeah I'm not too sure how many people turned up that night but hopefully there'll be more than three or four. The fact that we've now been finally able to announce the date. Yeah. At least a few weeks. It's not going to be just you and me though Ian is it I think the plan is I'm not sure if others are confirmed yet are they oh are they you have such a tease there will be a special guest I can guarantee that won't

be hair Chapman and I can guarantee it won't be Alistair Bruce Ball fresh from his holidays No, but getting the spade in tow did should be going though if his if his put if he claims his podcast Anyway, that's another Can't afford him. Did you guys ever take part in this is a while back? BBC Road shows where there was an opportunity for people to come into a commentary booth and be played some footage so you could either do football or rugby or swimming or whatever and then we would sort of sit there and help and coach and you know you'd record it and then you'd go away did you ever did

you ever help out with that yeah yes I did yeah yeah nottingham gateshead yeah the one I did I think was in Sheffield and I do remember this young lad who who's very confidently came in, he can only have been, he must have been nine, ten years old and I said to him, you know, what do you want to choose and he went football. I said, right, well you're going to watch this little bit of football and then you can commentate on it and he watched the clip and made a couple of notes and was just about ready to go and then he just turned to me before he started and he went is it okay to be humorous? So he'd obviously had some sort of comedy I can't remember what his comedy line was up his sleeve

but he just wanted to check with me if it was alright to inject a little bit of humor in it which which has we just stayed with me ever since. Where was he from? Cardiff? Yeah I know, terrible impression impression that. I beg your pardon. Yeah, yeah. But we have, we have, haven't we? And we've got some, we've got some very good emails coming up here and we enjoy your emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk, almost as much as we enjoy your WhatsApp voice notes

to 08000289369. And Ian, Mike Crompton has emailed us and says, afternoon, John, ABB and Ian. Perhaps I should say the three commentator tenors. I'm not sure about that. He says, Mike, just a quick email to say thank you very much for sharing your experiences, knowledge and humor tales from your experiences from the commentary gantries and whilst on your travels. The podcast has been a tremendous listen on a Friday or whilst on my travels. Members of my family, different generations have enjoyed your musings as well. The feature with Jackie Altley interested my teenage daughter greatly for example.

This has been a memorable season, Mike says, but my highlight was watching Ian Dennis prior to the Newcastle Arsenal League Cup semi-final having a boogie to the rather not impressive pre-match Newcastle United playlist which included the Macarena as I recall. The low point was the tip for a horse at Bangoron D in the 5.40pm on a Thursday night which was last seen in the Snowdonia area later the same evening. Hope you all have a restful summer once the domestic European and international fixtures are concluded though I suspect you may have more work to do. He mentions the FIFA Club World Cup which we will not be at I should hasten to add. Best wishes and keep upholding the fine traditions and exceeding expectations of the BBC sports

commentary. So that's from Mike Crumpton and family. Yes the BBC will be there at the FIFA Club World Cup. I think we have a couple of colleagues who are going and will be writing on the website but no we will not be carrying commentary on the FIFA Club World Cup this summer. Can I just say I don't know who he thought I was, but Mike, that wasn't me dancing to the Macarena. I've never ever boogied to the Macarena. I'll have a little boogie to Deacon Blue, but not to the Macarena. And also, can I just say as well, talking about, he talks about the fine traditions. Had a lovely message from, from John Nicholson, Johnny Nicholson on social media, big fan of Five Live, he sent me a message just saying that thanking John,

Ali, Connor, Pat, myself, all the pundits for being there, he says you all do a such a fabulous job, you must do some serious miles, he still listens all the time, he finds it both exciting and oddly comforting, you know, listening to, despite some of the actual football. And he goes on to say that he's enjoyed football on the radio since 1977. And he just says that he talks about the standards that we set.

So it was a really, really nice message because I know he's not been well. He's had a stroke stroke which is set him back So we wish John all the very best in his recovery. Yes, we do. Absolutely. Yes. All the best to you John Yeah, get well soon. So we're recording this on a on a Friday lunchtime and I think this podcast will will drop John as they say sometime There'll be a lot of that talk in Sheffield sometime this afternoon So if you're listening to it before

Friday evening 7.45 we've got full commentary live from Wembley of England Portugal in the UEFA Women's Nations League which I think, so I've done a couple of England's games in this competition this season I think is really interesting partly because we're very very close to a major tournament and them defending their title, partly obviously because of the big story that Mary Earps has retired from international football and won't be there this summer. But also just in terms of that Nations League, so England are currently three points behind

Spain in that group and the Nations League will not be the most important thing to them, but what I remember from doing the commentaries is you want to finish in the top two of those Nations League groups because that will take you through to the top league of qualifying for the World Cup qualifiers for Brazil which is the next tournament and the only way you can qualify automatically for that tournament in Brazil is by being in one of those top leagues so there's actually a bit of jeopardy there as well because Portugal are three points behind them so there's quite a lot going on around that game. But that was quite the sensation wasn't it the news about Mary Earps

earlier this week. So Hannah Hampton and her have been vying you know for the number one spot in that team for a little while and England have two very, very good goalkeepers there and they've got more good goalkeepers as back up. The problem they've got now is if Hannah Hampton gets injured, the two in the squad at the moment haven't won an England cap yet. So if she got injured on the eve of the tournament you would have an uncapped goalkeeper in your team as you defend the title. So at the moment in that squad it's Kiara Keating and Anna Morehouse but that could easily happen, that could be a problem.

So England, Portugal is on Friday, Spain, England in the Nations League is on Tuesday at 6, Vicky Sparks and the former England defender Lindsay Johnson but in between that in Munich, John Murray and Chris Sutton the Champions League final. Chris is due to arrive later this evening, once I've finished this, I'm off up to the Allianz Arena where Inzaghi and Luis Enrique are going to be doing their talking on the day before the final. And I honestly can't wait. I think, you know, generally as you two have experienced, it's great commentating on these matches when there are English clubs involved. An all-English final, Ian, and obviously you had Chelsea's success this week.

an all-English final, Ian, and obviously you had Chelsea's success this week, but it does put a different slant on it completely. I think from a work point of view as much as anything else when you cover a final like this, and it was the same last year when it was at Wembley and Real Madrid against Borussia Dortmund, but I think this is an intriguing final and I guess people will probably be listening to this knowing what the result is if they're listening next week, but I Just have a slight edge towards Paris Saint-Germain. I don't know you two. Well, I went with Inter didn't I a few weeks ago So I've got it. I've got a stick with Inter toss of a coin for me I think I would probably go into what's what's the inter narrative John in terms of you know, Paris Saint-Germain narrative

I think is quite obvious Isn't it because a lot of the big names have gone and Luis Enrique has formed this team of young players and they've thrilled everyone particularly in the knockout stages of this competition If in to go on and win this Champions League, what's the story? The story there I think is last chance opportunity for so many of these players because so many of them in this squad It's remarkable really how many 30 plus and not only 30 plus way into their 30s players that they've got and also missing out unexpectedly really few weeks ago we thought that Inter were going to win the Italian League and Napoli would finish second in fact Conte almost said as much and in fact they haven't they've been

pipped to it by Napoli and also two years ago losing to Manchester City when they came very close to shocking Manchester City in that final with if you remember the late chances that they had and and many of that team I think there could be seven or eight of the team that started against Manchester City will start against Paris Saint-Germain as well so I think that's the the narrative from an inter point of view. Who do you think Chaps would be the more popular winner with the neutrals if you have no skin in the game who do you think the neutrals will root for? Inter. My feeling would be Inter because of what happened in the semi-final against Barca and also the fact that PSG you know a lot a lot of

people are uncomfortable with the club that is bankrolled by Qatar. You must have seen more of Paris Saint-Germain than a number of Premier League clubs this season, John. Yeah, I have. And I've changed my view really on Luis Enrique, who I think has handled himself brilliantly and has, despite the financial backing that they've got, they have still built here, I think,

a very interesting team and accumulated and bought some, you know, really exciting young talents. And but I think in the end, it has to come back to the manager and he's the one that's melded them into the unit that they now are. So I've been really taken with the way that they've played this season. And they play exciting football. They play attractive, exciting football. And I think Inter having played against Barcelona as it come up against a team like this, you know, is a very similar challenge, really, to the one that they faced in the semi-final against Barcelona.

Was the part of you hoping that it was going to be Barcelona instead of Inter? Yes, although I've always had a crudging affection for Inter because of the way that they do things. And even this season, to concede one goal in the league phase, eight matches, they conceded one goal. And I have got a lot of time for Inzaghi as well, who I think has proved himself to be one of the best coaches around and it does surprise me I don't know whether it's the language barrier or what the reason is that he he never really gets mentioned when it comes to the big jobs becoming available I think he was talked about as a potential Liverpool manager wasn't he a couple of years ago but he's not one when the lists come out he's never high

up on those lists. That said I don't think anybody would begrudge Luis Enrique the success and his moment as a manager bearing in mind the tragic backstory to what happened with his daughter. I think the way he's handled himself with such grace, although I still believe that many neutral would still want Inter, I don't think people would begrudge Luis Enrique. No, I mean, it's the ultimate human story that isn't it? It is, yeah. And also the disappointments that he had since in a footballing sense, you know, obviously,

it's just a game. But when he was the coach of Spain to go out on penalties in the way that he did at two tournaments, you know such fine lines Which is not safe course He hasn't had a great deal of success and he would be winning the Champions League for the second time if he yeah if he wins It I've been with it with that that Incredible Barcelona frontline as the coach of that team with Neymar and Suarez and and Messi and just from your point of view John I mean you mentioned it right at the start there,

it's a different experience because there's not an English team involved. From the commentator's view does that take a bit of pressure off in a way? I think it means that there aren't necessarily all of the demands that there would be in terms of all of the various programs and outlets wanting a piece of you all of the time, although in saying that, I'm getting messages even as I speak here now from producer Gary Flint of telling me that there is this and there is that. So it's the Champions League final. This is one of the biggest sporting events in the world. Whenever we talk about this, we'll tend to talk about Olympics,

World Cup, Euros, Wimbledon, the Grand Slam tennis events, the big Formula One races, the golf majors. People don't tend to talk about this as the event that it is. It's massive. The eyes and ears that will be on this match will be up there with any other sporting event this year, and probably more. That leads us actually in talking of sporting events to Clash of the Commentators. Oh good. The Monday Night Club on the Football Daily. Join myself, Mark Chapman, Rory Smith and Chris Sutton to look back at the biggest stories from the weekend's football.

I think that's a really measured, mature assessment of the situation. This is Football Shappers so we should probably find someone to shout at. I think that's the way to go. Well, Chris looks like he's about to shout at you for describing that point as mature a measure The Monday night club only on the football daily listen on BBC sounds The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball John Murray and Ian Dennis Okay, so this week it's correspondent against senior reporter Water Clash. I mean that's absolutely mouth-watering.

So that's John Murray against Ian Dennis. John with yet another shot as if he hasn't got enough on his plate this weekend at ending his nine match losing streak. Nine matches that's taken him from top of the table to being firmly, enough on his plate this weekend at ending his nine match losing streak, nine matches that's taken him from top of the table to being firmly, as we all know, rooted at the bottom. Current leaderboard, I'm on 11 from 13, John, sorry, Becky, Ian, 5 from 12, John 3 from 13.

So this is John's 14th game at this. Nine defeats in a row. As I said, John can close the gap on Ian here and we've got one more episode to come this season as well. So a bit on this today. Who's going to go first this week? I'm not sure I can actually get off the bottom of the table because we've only got one more to go this season and I don't think I'm in it.

You've been relegated. Already relegated. Relegated enough Already relegated. Relegated. Playing for Bright. With week to go. Unless you're like Chris Sutton in Fantasy Football League and you're exempt. Yes. Exempt from relegation. Yeah yeah. That's caused a stir. It has caused a stir. If John's abroad is it easier if I disconnect? Okay yep do, do it. Okay, meanwhile I've just reached into the bin and picked up half of my ripped boarding pass, which I'm going to write the

question on the back of. I think this could be the one for you, John. I do. That's all I'm going to say. The topic this week comes from one of our football producers, Phil Wye. This season was the first ever to see five different English clubs win a major trophy. As we've already mentioned on the commentators view, last week and this week, four of them strongly associated with birds, the liver bird, magpies, eagles and the cockerel. I need you to name as many clubs in the top four divisions of English football to either have an avian nickname or a bird on their club crest. So I need...

The bird on the crest! Yeah, or the nickname job, but I need the club and the bird. To get the point you need both. I'm gonna help you by saying there's 26 clubs, 17 birds. Wow, I'm amazed by that. Okay. I am amazed by that. Okay, okay. Not gonna give you any more time to think, okay? Okay. Your time starts now. Well Newcastle, Magtys, might just throw in Notts County Magtys in there as well. Crystal Palace Eagles, Brighton Seagulls, Norwich the Canaries,

West Brom, The Throssles, Liverpool, Like a Bird. Got it, got it, that is excellent, that is one of your best performances John for a long time. Let's see about that shall we? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, correct and The Throssles, What a Shout, What a shout water shout right let's give Danny the thumbs up here He comes I think I've mmm. Yeah, well. I know one. He's good. I know one He's gonna get it'll be the first one he gets Can I just say that John will never have a better opportunity because I've had a few days off this week Yeah, and I have taken my eye off the ball a little bit. Okay. I've just kicked back a bit this week. I have taken my eye off the ball a little bit. I've just kicked back a bit

this week. The topic this week comes from one of our producers, Phil Why. So if it goes wrong Ian, you can blame him. This season, the first ever, we've discussed this on the commentators view to see five different English clubs win a major trophy, four of them strongly associated with birds. The live bird, magpies, eagles, cockerel. I want you to name as many clubs in the top four divisions of English football to either have an avian nickname or a bird on the club crest. Okay? But I need you to say club and bird. I need both for it to be a correct answer. And the only clue I'm going to give you to say club and bird, I need both for it to be a correct answer and the only clue I'm going to give you to help is there are 26 clubs, 17 birds. Your time starts now.

Liverpool, Leiberberg, Crystal Palace, Tottenham Hotspur Cockerels. I've got a break, I've got a break. Well, well, well, well, what a start. What a start you made. What I can tell you is, we are heading into some form of sudden death playoff here, because you've both got seven apiece. Okay? I had a mental block after that. Yeah, I think the only way to do it it now is I'm going to say you cannot use any of the clubs previously used and we're going to try and keep it going. There are more clubs

available. It could be a first one in situation here, maybe a first one in. Well in that case then Cardiff City Bluebirds. There you go, Bluebirds, Cardiff City, Denno takes it in the sudden death playoff. We mentioned that last week-off. The bird you missed that had a lot of clubs associated to it, the Robin. Bristol City. Bristol City, Cheltenham, Wrexham, Swindon. Charlton Athletic apparently known as the Red Robins, they're more commonly known as the Addicks. And Walsall, are they the way So yeah, Swift and crest that's good shout in I mean you guys have done very very well there or the disappoints me for John It's a tenth 10. Well doesn't matter to fake. It's irrelevant Barrow apparently the Bluebirds John got the Canaries

Cultists the United have a Roman Eagle on their crest apparently Coventry have a Phoenix and an eagle Wimbledon have a double-headed Eagle on their crest apparently Coventry have a Phoenix and an eagle Wimbledon have a double-headed eagle on the crest I wouldn't have expected you to get any of those Bromley the Ravens Blackpool have a seagull on the club crest. What's the do? Could have should have got Blackpool. Wickham Wanderers have a swan on the club crest. Yeah they do. But that is a good game chaps, good category from Phil. Well done to Phil, excellent category. Yeah it was very good. And Mr Murray's still left going pauqua. So Ian goes to six from 13, John goes to three from 14. So commiserations to John, now it's time for the great, thanks very much,

now it's time for the great glossary of football commentary as we add listener suggestions of football specific commentary terms and phrases to add to our collection. Last week we said yes to put their laces through it bundled over the line, goal mouth scramble, towering header, keeping the ball under their spell. We said no to knock off their perch, eyebrows for a header, you could have said that, Frenzo Fernandez Alli midweek, bump a new contract and leap like a salmon. We removed, throws their cap on it. Now the disputes, Spud, as I listened to commentary of the first test match of the summer on Saturday England against Zimbabwe at Trent Bridge, I was interested to hear Simon Mann use a phrase which I'm

afraid will now have to be removed from the great glossary of football commentary. Tung tries again, Bolster Williams outside the off stump, cracked away, bad ball, four more. Gone out to deep cover. The tongue bowed full was driven, he bowled a bit shorter and was cut away. Great venom by Williams. He goes to 54. It's got to go.

So sorry to Dan in Church Stretton, Mike in Seven Oaks and Forrest Van Steve, who all suggested struck with venom. Can I just say very quickly, Spud, who's got in touch there, listens to a lot of Five Live Output, a lot of podcasts as well. He has got a little treat for us in our last episode of the season next week so Spud has sent us something that you will hear next week. He does it regularly for the Fantasy 606 podcast and it's creative genius. I love it so that's coming next week. I was hoping he was going to be sending me a point for Clash of the Commentators. He's not that creative, John.

Join the club. Right, on to new suggestions for the glossary then. Great story coming in from Mark here. TCV at bbc.co.uk on the email. Hello all, I've been thinking about a word for the glossary. In the early seventies, I was a football crazy nine or ten year old, well would have been both at different times attending primary school in Spellhurst a village just outside Tunbridge Wells. Football was quite literally

all I thought or spoke about either in school or at home. Teachers, parents, mates, my brother all knew that other than getting my tummy filled on a regular basis nothing else really concerned me therefore it wasn't often that I would put my hand up to answer questions on the subject matter being taught at any given time. Imagine my enthusiasm then when in a lesson the headmaster, Mr Whiting, while talking about siblings, asked whether anyone knew the correct word to use when three babies are born together. Well, my arm went up like a bullet out of a gun. I stretched it as if trying to force it out of my shoulder joint. I was absolutely desperate to be chosen to provide the correct answer. I think my frantic arm stretch and accompanying squeaking

noises as excited ten-year-old boys tend to make got noticed, particularly as my intervention was such a rare event. I was rewarded with a pointing finger in my direction Hat-trick I declared Convinced I'd have impressed everyone with my knowledge on the subject of achieving three of something I'm not sure how many of my classmates fell off their seats engulfed in the hilarity of what I just left my lips But I clearly recall mr. Whiting laughing like a hyena. That story has been repeated regularly, not least when I got married.

Anyway, I'm not sure I've heard Hat-Trick mentioned in any other sporting context. I suggest it's a worthy contender for inclusion. I hope you agree. That is from Mark. That is a great story, but I don't think Hat-Trick's gonna get into the glossary, is it? It's not, unfortunately. It It's not because you can be on a hat-trick in cricket.

Yes absolutely yeah so that's a shame and to be honest I think probably in any sport hat-trick of Formula One wins you name it so shame nice email lovely story yeah but no. In the sporting contest do we ever use triplet you never use triplet do you you never get a triplet he was a golfer wasn't he yes Kirk Triplett but there was only one of him yes that's true very good love that I wonder if any of the triplets had triplets yeah we should wow we should find out from Kirk if you're listening Kirk let us know Pete's in Cheshire with something Glenn Murray said in a recent 5Live commentary with John when asked to predict the Europa League final result. He'd be a brave man I think to predict that final scoreline, Glenn.

I think it's going to be a final where football's the winner, John. Let's hope so, that's what we want from every single football match that we go to. It certainly wasn't, was it? It wasn't. But yet again, that commentary that I did with Glenn, that Arsenal-Newcastle match, has thrown up so many talking points. And that is probably in the glossary, isn't it?

No. Let's hope football is the winner. No. Cricket can be the winner. Golf can be the winner. Well, Peter, when the phrase is, let's hope football is the winner... Oh, I see, I see. That's Pete's point. Pete's setting aside that football wasn't the winner. Should this be included?

I don't recall an equivalent phrase being used. For example, cricket or athletics. Personally, I think it would be a humorous and diplomatic entry into the glossary, but I'll let you decide, keep up the good work. Well, I think yes. Yeah, I mean if you're using football in the sentence then John is correct because that can only be about football, but I would say in other sports, you know, at the end of a golf or cricket, whatever it is, you can say that that sport was the winner. So yes, I would agree on that basis.

I would say can't be included. OK. Richard in Oxford has emailed us firstly, can I say in a world littered with football podcasts, what a welcome addition yours has been always with warmth and wit. And to coin a phrase, the cream rises to the top and I know if her Chapman is listening he will endorse that entirely. Richard continues for the glossary how about witted in with a bit of pace referring to when a player is compelled to rifle a ball from wide for either a towering header or a fox in the

box. Not only, very good Richard, not only do I think this is unique to football, but when I shouted this out from the terraces at my local club, Oxford United, my brother and his pal laughed at me. So I think this may be one only for the professional commentators and pundits. What do you think? Whip it in with a bit of pace.

I use that. I think I've used that recently. It was whipped in with pace. Yeah, I mean, I think in tennis, you could whip a forehand down the line with a bit of pace, but you're not using that quite in the same context. How did you describe Cole Palmer? In fact, let's have a listen to this. On Cole Palmer from the other day, from the final, we had this from Mark Schwartz on the commentary with you, Ali. Absolutely brilliant from Cole Palmer. Just steps on the ball, waits and waits, draws the young

defender in and then just drops the shoulder and turns him on a dime. In behind the ball is brilliant, Jackson's run to the near post is excellent and it's a fantastic goal from Chelsea all because of Cole Palmer. Absolute magician. So that's the other one, that's the other goal that Palmer created. So there was the ball in for Enzo Fernandes, but turns him on a dime from Mark Schwarzer. The cross for Enzo Fernandes, I wouldn't say was whipped. Whipped in with pace, I think has real, if I'm going to go back to Venom, has real speed and spin on the ball. Whereas that was more floated, I thought, from Parma. And then Fernandes, I wouldn't say was quite more floated I thought from Palmer and then

Fernandez I wouldn't say was quite eyebrows either I thought he sort of guided the header Yes I agree with that rather than glanced it. On a dime though I mean yeah we'd say sixpence wouldn't we? Sixpence? So it turns him on a sixpence? Turns him on a sixpence stroke dime? I think that's only football isn't it? Football specific isn't it? Can I tell you another very quick story and I'm going to do a terrible impression accent again Ian as well. You know Richard talked there about the cream rising to the top. My parents were once on a holiday somewhere and this Welsh chap sort of decided to take it upon himself to be the leader of the group. So it was one of these sort of, it might have been a saga holiday a group holiday

everyone goes out and does the activities together then they come back all have dinner together and spend three or four days traveling around wherever they were traveling around and he would get up each evening and and sort of speak on behalf of the group not that anyone I think could particularly asked him to and on the last evening he wanted to say thank you very much to the organizers of the trip and whatever they've done on the final day had been the sort of centerpiece the best thing they've done and he went on to say that their their trip to wherever it had been let's say let's say Salisbury Cathedral had been the creme

de la resistance of the of the entire trip which I thought was absolutely absolutely brilliant that's a bit a little bit David Jason that isn't it? Exactly. Just going back to Cole Palmer, Ben in Portugal has sent us an email with the subject Glossary and damning with faint praise. Dear all, I consume quite a lot of football related podcasts and occasionally dare to put them on loud speaker in the kitchen while I'm cooking but run the risk of a snooty remark from my partner about the lowbrow nature of the chat. So I'm sure it will come as a surprise to you to learn, as it did to me, that your podcast is not only tolerable but that you are all

quite clever and interesting. Well thank you. One for the glossary perhaps. It always tickles me when I hear that a tricky winger has the opposite number on toast or when the defender is in the ascendancy they could have said winger in their pocket but that doesn't work the other way around and then James in Muswell Hill, how about when a winger consistently beats the fullback the winger has the player on toast is that in any other sport? Well first of all to Ben I think he's come up there with the line that we can use on the publicity for our appearance in Sheffield at the BBC Sounds at the podcast

festival. They are tolerable. Roll up, roll up, they're tolerable. What do we think about those two for the glossary then? To have the fullback on toast or have the winger in your pocket? I like winger in their pocket. I think that's quite football glossary isn't it? Yeah, but on toast you think... And on toast probably is as well. I don't think it's necessarily something I would say. Does a bowler ever have a batsman like if they get them out a lot in a series,

do they have them on toast? Toast, I can see that. I think they do. Yeah, I do. Yeah, Terry Alderman with Graham Guch, all those. Oh, had him on toast. He did have him on toast. You have the wood on them as well, don't you?

That's another one. You have the wood on them, yeah. To have the wood on someone. And also in cricket, they're your bunny, aren't they? Is that right? Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we now have, don't we Ian, I think the email of the week.

Do you want to read that one? Well, there's a lot going on here. So this is yet another suggestion for how to describe finding the top corner of the goal, which without question has been the most popular phrase So far in the great glossary of football commentary. We have had postage stamp top bins Where the owl sleeps where the bat sleeps, but what about this from? Mohammed Reza in Iran We've got an email from Iran. I can't believe that. I don't know why. I don't know why

I should feel like that. But of all of the places I was not expecting to get an email from, it's Iran. So we are very, very grateful to you, Mohammed Reza, for getting in touch. And he says, for getting in touch and he says, hi, dear commentators, I want you to talk and think about the phrase where mama hides the cookies. This phrase is used in ice hockey when a goal is scored in the top corner. Love, love, love, love your top, top, top, top podcast.

Go Liverpool. And one more thing, can you say hi to Conor McNamara for me and tell him I love his commentary. So not only have we got an email from Iran, he has also used the four tops and we will pass that on to Conor won't we? Your challenge for the Champions League final John, if a goal does go into the top corner, I'm not saying in the goal commentary, I wouldn't mess about with the proper goal commentary, but don't tell Chris something that you're going to use it and if you can get where mama

hides the cookies into the commentary and just look at Chris's reaction to that. I'm actually going to make a note of that, otherwise I will forget. Yeah, do that, see what Chris makes of it. But unfortunately Mohamed Reza because you said it yourself it's used in ice hockey it can't go in. And I've already written down from last week keeping the ball under his spell I've got that one down and ready for Kebarritz-Kellier. Oh yeah. On Wednesday Ali I thought you might have dropped it in for either an Isco or a Cole Palmer. Could have done. Yeah, absolutely could have done. There was one moment, first half, where Isco, over on the left wing, had two Chelsea players right next to him.

Both of them could have just stuck up. The ball was a foot away, and he whipped the ball from right foot to left foot, sort of dropped a shoulder and danced away from the pair of them. And you're right, he exactly had the ball under his spell he was he was an absolute joy to watch yes and Isco who from this point on shall be known as the Chaffee and the summary for this week's potential entries into the great glossary of football commentary hat-trick no football's the winner noippet in with a bit of pace. We're putting that out to tender. Turns him on a sixpence stroke. Dime is yes. Has their defender on toast? No. Winger in their pocket? Yes, for now. And where mama hides the cookies? Sadly, no. And also Sunderland fan Ray in Virginia who presumably Ray you are

still glowing after last weekend's events he says unfortunately I am old enough to remember turned on a sixpence it may be an urban myth but didn't one commentator say George Best stopped picked up the sixpence he turned on and still beat the full back. I don't remember that but if they did that's that is excellent. So John have a good one in Munich thank you Ali. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. On the next one you can catch reaction to our five live Friday night commentary as England face Portugal at Wembley in the Women's Nations League. As for the commentator's view, remember you can catch every single episode on the Football Daily Feed on BBC

Sounds. Where Mama Hides the Cookies. You won't say cookie, you'll say kooky. How do you say it? Do you say kooky? Cookies. Yeah, so you'd actually say Mam Mam mum hides the cookies, wouldn't you? What was that, sorry? In the North East they say mam, rather than mum.

Probably say me mam. In the States, cookies are biscuits, aren't they John? We've gone to this one before. No, here they're biscuits. Oh, you call them biscuits, don't you? We call them biscuits, they're not cookies. No, a cookie is a cookie though, isn't it? Yeah, but a cookie is a cookie.

No, it's not. It's not, a cookie is a cookie though, isn't it? Yeah, but a cookie is a cookie. No, it's not. It's a cookie. It's a biscuit. It's an American import. So if you came to my house and I offered you a cup of tea and then you would say to me... And a biscuit. And then I would say, well, I've got some rich tea, a custard cream or a cookie. They're all biscuits. Ah, ludicrous. Yeah, they are. They're all biscuits. Football, a game of passion, rivalry and loyalty. But decades ago, beneath the cheers and the chants lay a different kind of warfare called hooliganism. On a match day, everyone was your enemy. Everyone was going to kill you.

We look over the brutal, bloody battles where punching below the belt was a way of life. It was just a day of mayhem. It's a day you dream of. Join me, Tony Bellew, as we hear from those bruising for a fight in the name of the firms that they belong to. We hated them, we hunted them, we battered them, and nothing got in the way of football. Something they called the English disease.

They were destroying the football club, the game I love. Gangster Presents Hooligans, listen on BBC Sounds.