Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Bowls drama, stanchions & worldies

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball have their weekly catch-up to talk about their love of football, travel and language. Ian reflects on his commentary of Liverpool winning the Premier League title. Ali is packing his bags for the Arctic. Will John be packing his bags in Clash of the Commentators? Which football terms will be added to the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? And an announcement of sorts…WhatsApp voicenotes to 08000 289 369 Emails to [e-mail]01:15 John enjoys lawn bowls ‘drama’ 03:50 Correspondent vs senior reporter 08:10 Ian’s Liverpool title reflections 15:05 Champions League semis finely poised 19:50 5 Live commentaries this weekend 22:35 Ali preparing for the Arctic circle 28:30 Tense low-scoring Clash of the Commentators 35:25 More disputed terms in the Great Glossary 44:15 Potentially very exciting newsBBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League weekend commentaries: Sat 1500 Everton v Ipswich, Sat 1730 Arsenal v Bournemouth, Sun 1200 Man Utd v Man City in the WSL on Radio 5 Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Brighton v Newcastle, Sun 1400 Brentford v Man Utd on Radio 5 Sports Extra, Sun 1400 West Ham v Tottenham on BBC Sport website, Sun 1630 Chelsea v Liverpool.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. This week Matt sits down with team principal Christian Horner, you don't want to miss that. Watching him drive the car is a little bit like Roger Federer at the top of his game. So he'll be here driving for Red Bull next season. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. Music Radio Podcasts. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Welcome to the Football Daily. This is the Commentator's View where we take you behind the microphone and talk about our love of football, travel and crucially our love of language. So, Buenos dias, John Murray, our correspondent, and Ali Bruce Ball, as I record ahead of Athletic Bilbao against Manchester United back in Spain. So they're definitely Athletic Bilbao.

We're not calling them Athletic Club or Athletic or they're Athletic Bilbao. Here in Bilbao, they want to be known as Athletic Club, but of course we know them as Athletic Bilbao, so that's why I'll be referring to them as Athletic Bilbao. Okay, not the athletic club What would you do? That's that's mischief right at the start of the party. Look at his face. Just look at his face No surprise. That's what we call him. Mr. Mischief I'd be the same as you I'd call them athletic Bilbao So I'm fresh from Liverpool's title-winner Danfield, but the question on everybody's

lips without the interruption, John, how was the small matter of lawn balls? Well, I'd encourage everyone to give it a try. We had a dramatic afternoon in South London and there was no one else there there was only the six of us so it was three against three and it was it was it was the most dramatic sporting event I've been involved in in 2025. When you say the six of us who are the other five? Well I don't think we need to get into that but it was a competitive a very competitive afternoon. Yeah what just because the listener might have been saying the six of us,

thinking that it might have been me and Ali, but we weren't, I mean, first I heard a bit. It was a social group. Oh, right, okay. What struck you most, John, about playing the sport of lawn bowls? What surprised you? Having, you and I have watched it live, we watched Commonwealth Games lawn bowls in Glasgow, sitting alongside Roddy Forsythe in glorious sunshine

But playing it what what was surprising about it? surprising about it was the fast pace that that the The whole thing about trying to get the balls to move in or move out Which I reckon that will take a little while to master. And the other crucial question did Hare Chapman, has he mentioned it on air yet? Because you said that was the... He did refer to it but quite intriguingly he said someone had told him as opposed to him actually hearing. Oh, so. He got a hair Chapman has spies

Yeah, and Ali when you said fast pace Have you ever seen John play snooker table tennis or indeed eat food? Yeah, no, I have things quickly I've done all of those things with John Ian and I try not to talk about the snooker in the pool too much because the last Time John and I played pool together We had a week-long head- head to head battle at a house near, was it Hoylake John? Hoylake, a couple of years ago at the open and one of the houses we stayed in, the house John and I were staying in had a pool table so every night after work, after dinner we'd get back and have a couple of frames and I think by the end of the week I was about 9-0

down, I did not win a single it might have been more than that yeah it might have been but he was a part you're right Ian he wasn't he wasn't the whirlwind that would not be his his nickname no no no no no no no no no the email address is tcv at bbc.co.uk I'm going to read a couple of emails out here because they're more for you than they are for me chaps. A couple of questions on this subject after last week. I introduced you both by your job titles. So John is the BBC's football correspondent and Ian a senior football reporter.

So Mike, formerly of Huddersfield Town, that suggests Mike played for Huddersfield Town, but now just outside Boston in the USA. I have a question which I've not heard asked before. What's the difference between a football correspondent and a football reporter? Is it one of seniority or a difference in role? And why front wearing Pete, who we've heard from before, I often wonder what the BBC Sport commentators organogram looks like. Obviously Hare Chapman is numero uno

but beneath that what is the order in terms of rank how does the football correspondent compare to the senior football reporter and others PS mighty York are in the playoffs so does anyone want to field that one well why from wearing Pete I've got to say hair Chapman would like to think that he's numero uno, but I would say that the correspondent would top the presenter. He'd be in a different organogram, wouldn't he? Yeah. I mean, at times this season on Radio 5 Live Sport, he's almost morphed into trying to be the editor as well as the presenter.

Yes, he enjoys a bit of that. Yeah, I've noticed that. It's a very difficult question to answer, isn't it? Because there are so many titles. And to be honest, I would say probably half the time when I'm actually introduced by a title on air, it's the wrong title. But to be honest, I've gone way past the point where you try to actually put that right. But in terms of the sort of like the pyramid, you sit at the top of the tree. Yeah, but it depends what tree you're looking at. So in terms of the tree that Mike's talking about. To explain it, I think in our world, in the world of radio commentary, basically it started

in I think the 60s when Brian Moore was the first he was given the title of football correspondent and of course the BBC's head was a very very different place to how it is now radio commentary compared to TV commentary and all of the other things of course you know the website was a distant glimmer back then and it was therefore that role, which was like the main radio football commentators role was known as the football correspondent. So that passed from Brian Moore to Brian Butler

to Mike Ingham to me. But during the course of all of that, while that title has more or less remained the same, although Mike Ingham of course, towards the end was Chief Football Correspondent, while that role has remained as it is, all of the other parts of the BBC have changed. So other titles and other positions have come in and obviously the TV and TV sports news grew into what it is now and indeed the website as well. So that's why there is now a proliferation of different titles.

Does that sum it up? Does that explain it? That's I think that's brilliant, John. But it is. But from what you say there, given that you're only the fourth in terms of the role you're talking in and the title you're talking that that does have a real cache to it. I think that's really quite a special thing.

And in terms of your role, then Ian's a senior football reporter that have a real cache to it. I think that's really quite a special thing. And in terms of your role then Ian, as a senior football reporter, that has a real, the sort of news beat side to things in terms of the stories in particular doesn't it, and the contacts and you know all of the stuff that... No I don't mean on news beat. I did hear him on news beat for you actually. I mean working the football beat, that's what I mean. He's in one of those moods this morning, Ali. Exactly, it's impossible.

Yeah. Unplayable. But no, you're right, but after Mike had left, I've started to do more of the bigger games, if you like, along with John, and therefore the news side of things hasn't necessarily become more of an issue. I've then focused more on the commentary. So I don't tend to do too much on the beats I used to do if that all makes sense but also it does lead to suggestions for a title for me

TCV at BBC dot co.uk that's probably a risky way to go I think but you know some of them won't be able to be read out I think but um maybe we'll go down that route I wonder if Hare Chapman and Hare Sutton would send a WhatsApp message to that number thingy. Talking of titles, Ian, Anfield. I've got to say it was very, very special. I know we talked about it the previous week, hadn't we, about thinking about what we were likely to say and I did a bit of homework because the last time they won the title in front of supporters was the last time they won the title in front of supporters

was the 28th of April 1990. And so I got an age calculator out and I worked out the amount of days that it was 12,783. Did you include leap years? Well, it was an age calculator. So the age calculator worked it out. You type in the date 28th of April 1990 to the 27th of April 2025 and it came up with the answer. So I presume that it did include, it just said the amount of days it was. So that was my... Presumed.

Well, listen, I'm not going to doubt the age calculator. So I threw that one in, but the atmosphere was very, very special. I think they certainly made up for the one that they couldn't celebrate five years ago due to Covid. And I have to say being at Anfield was probably up there with other memorable games such as Dortmund in 2016 and Barcelona in that Champions League game in 2019 because it just, I felt privileged to be there with all the supporters. There's a great email on this Ian,, sort of connected to this, from Tommy, which says, hello gents, love listening to the recent pod and hearing Conor's thoughts on his Maguire moment was truly brilliant up there with the Aguero moment for sure.

One thing it got me thinking about was the importance of commentators letting the crowd be the commentary. I've listened many times where commentators let the crowd celebrate after a goal and you really hear the atmosphere and other times when commentators have the crowd celebrate after a goal and you really hear the atmosphere and other times when commentators have spoken over the crowd noise and I feel like it almost lessens the moment. So my question is how do you find the balance between commentating, describing and detailing but also letting the atmosphere do the talking? That's a great question and I think it takes great confidence doesn't it John you have To have a lot of confidence. I think to stop talking as a radio commentator and and let the atmosphere talk

I think as well when you have a big crowd like I was at at the FA Cup semifinals last weekend So when Crystal Palace are scoring those goals, you know the noise inside Wembley was was was terrific So you can can can't you, let the crowd take over and you probably had a bit of that last weekend Ian as well I would have thought. Yeah, I deliberately didn't talk over you'll never walk alone ahead of the game. So Steve Crossman handed it to me is the teams were coming onto the field of play and I'd said to the engineer Irvine, I'd said by the way we're not going to talk here we're just going to let the atmosphere speak for itself

with real meaning inside Anfield and one of the many banners and flags that are flying in the car for way towards our right says Liverpool FC support and believe The Liverpool FC supports and believes. CHANTING APPLAUSE It's fine tingly. And I think there are certain occasions where the magnitude of the game speaks for itself and you make that decision. I remember doing the same Celtic Bayern Munich in the Champions League this season when a game when they played you'll never walk alone at Celtic Park and occasionally I'll do it

at Nottingham Forest as well because the city ground with the Mull of Kintyre is so atmospheric. You give the listener that opportunity just to close their eyes and to be there and there are certain grounds and if ever I get the opportunity to go to Easter Road when they sing Sunshine on Leith I will do that as well because I think that is one of the great anthems and I just will just let the supporters do the talking for us. Just reminded me of John you using not well an atmosphere but the crowd brilliantly at the Ryder Cup in 2008 when we were providing on course commentary and do you remember after Paul Azinger's team

had won that Ryder Cup, you conducted an interview with him on the green that you were aware that lots of people around the green were listening to and I think I asked him a question about the support that the team had received and then you got this incredible reaction from all the people around the green and A a zinger then acknowledged them but that that was a really clever use of crowd and atmosphere and the fact that everyone there was listening to what to what you were saying basically yes i i remember actually uh walking over to him and he'd just done a tv interview and uh i was going to interview him for the uh for five live obviously but as you say the on course radio so by that

stage we were conscious of the fact that the crowd were listening. And I remember him coming across, and I'd asked for the interview, and he said, where's your camera? And this was on air, and I said, well, Paul, I don't have a camera because this is on-course radio, but what I do have is, if you listen to this,

the crowd can hear you, and the crowd went, rah! And his eyes absolutely went, wow! If you listen to this the crowd can hear you and the crowd went Yeah, and his eyes absolutely went wow Do you remember the follow-on to that and this is a little bit niche and technical So I thought I thought that sounded absolutely amazing and so not having an original thought in my head I thought I'm gonna try and do the same with one of my post-match interviews and I got JB Holmes not the most talkative Member of the team, but unfortunately for me I tried to get the crowd to join in with JB Holmes but unbeknownst to me we'd gone off air on course for about three minutes and disappeared off to Five Live or Sports Extra to do something else. So I said JB, hey, have a listen to

this and it was absolute silence, there was nothing at all. It was a disaster. So it didn't work quite as well as Jod's. But I've got to say, as a listener, so Ian, I listened to you at Anfield at the weekend and you can't do that every time, let you all never walk alone playing Anfield, but I just thought, spot on, because you could just, I mean, I didn't close my eyes because I was driving,

but I could feel myself, it was spine spine-tingling absolutely spine-tingling Yes It also did it didn't we at the end of the match if I remember rightly because by that time we'd been switched back We at Wembley had been switched back across and I heard it there Yeah, so Steve Crossman when they sang you'll never walk alone with the players lined up in front of the cop Steve Crossman again didn't talk over it and and in fact, I remember Kelly doing the same after after that Barcelona game in 2019. Kelly Cates when they were again playing in Ever Walk Alone as part of the celebrations just said I'm not going to compete with this just you know let you have a have a

listen so yeah but so we did it both pre-match and post-match with you'll never walk alone last weekend where we didn't talk. Just a thought on Barcelona and I know this is moving the conversation on, I mean any one of us would have loved to have been commentating on Barcelona against Inter in the Champions League. What an incredible game of football that was. It just struck me that none of us have seen Barcelona live this season because they've not played an English team in the Champions League.

If they make the Champions League final, I mean not that it's difficult to commentate on Barcelona live, but that's quite, that feels quite unusual. It's another quirk isn't it of the new format. We've seen some teams over and over and over again, and yet none of us have seen Barcelona live. Well you're in Paris next week, how many times have you been to Paris? Well in 2025, by the end of next week, I'll have been to Parc de France more often than I've been to Old Trafford. You've actually been to the Parisian hospital more times than you've seen Barcelona. I hope I'm not going to be making a second visit there next week.

That's going to be like one of those Pink Panther films where he keeps getting injured and the ambulance goes flying through the streets of Paris They're taking to the loppy tail. What what do we make of where the the semi-final stand then? So bar sir three into three What I can tell you is the thing that shall not be mentioned The thing that shall not be mentioned because we should not be giving it any more credence Yes discussed on five live sport on Tuesday night it As discussed on Five Live Sport on Tuesday night, it reckoned that Arsenal had the greatest percentage of winning the Champions League this season, which to my eye, having watched them, I felt was not right.

But let's gloss over that because we're not mentioning it. Well after the quarterfinals, the BBC Sport website had said, oh, who do you think will win it out of the four teams and I went with Inter I think of the four, Inter were the team under the radar I didn't get asked that, did you get asked that Ali? I didn't. So I had to record a voice note and I went with Inter. Was that question that was only for senior football reporters? Possibly, possibly yeah and Matt Oberson, I'm trying to think who Matt Oberson went with. It's above our pay grade, John. Yeah, so...

I would have said Inter. I've got a sneaky feeling for Inter. But the reason I would have said Inter is because I remember them in the group stage as just not conceding a goal and being very hard to score against. Then obviously Barca stuck three past them, so my sort of reasoning for Inter goes slightly out the window there. But I think ahead of the start of the semi-finals I would have said Inter. So John, what do you think then of the second leg of, you know, you're going to Paris next week, what do you think of Arsenal's chances there? My hopes for Arsenal are not high, which seem to be quite in contrast with many people I spoke to in the aftermath of the first leg who seemed to think that they had a, you know, a reasonable chance of turning that round. But this is on the basis of my

experience having been in there in the park, the prance and even when they lost to Liverpool, I mean they were, they were sensational that night. Uh, you know, so having seen them do what they did to Manchester city and to Liverpool and to Aston Villa and with a 1-0 lead, I just think it's such a tall order. Remarkable really that they've taken on now and beaten every one of the English clubs in the Champions League this season, isn't it? But also the team that I saw against Arsenal in the league phase, they're almost unrecognisable. I know you highlighted it in your commentary in midweek that Dembele didn't travel then because of

sort of like the breach of discipline with Luis Enrique, but they are transformed. They were so tame that night in the league phase when they lost 2-0 to Arsenal and now they are, they're a real threat aren't they? They are probably the form team. Yes although I think Barcelona certainly gave a display of what they're capable of and I thought that with that performance from La Mena Mal and a match like that is just off the scale really isn't it? Yeah the first really good run he did where he literally just sways his body he beats one defender

Just with a shoulder drop just moves one and just glides Possibly it was it was his goal which he then whipped didn't he then sort of curled that drifted that shot into the far corner It was it was messy. Yes. It was absolutely that was Absolutely it and if he carries on like that Which is a massive if at the age of 17 in the game as it is now and the various pressures and all and everything that surrounds it But if he is able to do that you're talking about level on you It was very similar that the actual the way that he came on the inside and curled it

To the goal that he scored in the euros against France in the semi-final in Munich, which was equally special. Five live commentaries this weekend. Saturday's three o'clock commentary is Everton against Ipswich, relegated Ipswich, Conor McNamara and Chris Sutton. John, you're joined by Rob Green for the 5.30 game on Saturday. That's Arsenal against Bournemouth.

And then Sunday's offerings, Brighton and Hovall being against Newcastle. John Ak and Danny Gabbard on that's at two o'clock Brentford Manchester United is at Sports Extra also at two West Ham Tottenham another two o'clock kickoff is on the website and Ali you're joined by Pat Nevin for Chelsea against the Champions Liverpool at 430. Yeah I'll tell you a little funny story about that one I knew that the back end of this week was going to be really quite busy so unusually for me I decided to do so I was initially down to do Brighton against Newcastle on Sunday and so on Monday I got my head down and spent Monday morning doing

three or four hours work on Brighton Newcastle only to get the call in the afternoon from Ross the boss to say do you fancy Chelsea Liverpool on Sunday? I was like, I really do but that's really, really annoying. Did you know that? Did I what? That's my fault. I did, well I have found that out. That's quite alright. I didn't realise that you... Well that's really unusual John, I would never ever do my notes for a weekend on a Monday. That is so unusual. Absolutely. Well that was really unusual John, I would never ever do my notes for a weekend on a Monday, that is so unusual.

Absolutely, well that was exactly it. And I did say, I did flag that up, that that might be a possibility. Yeah. No, John, I'm very happy, I'm looking forward to it, I'm going to be really, I mean for Chelsea it's really important because they've got to try and get Champions League football next season and that is so tight, they're fifth at the moment, and I just but I'm just gonna be really interested to see Liverpool's attitude and approach and performance levels because obviously the title is one I think Subconsciously, there'll be a little drop-off won't there because the the need to win is not there

But I can also I mean Salah hasn't got his 30 Premier League goals yet this season, which he's done once before There's all sorts of things. They'll be chasing and trying to do I think. So I expect Liverpool to play well. Do you think Chelsea will form a Guard of Honour? Oh, I hadn't thought about that. That's kind of the done thing isn't it in modern football? I mean they're not previous champions handing over to new champions are they? Or would the Guard of Honour only be when they do the trophy lift on the last day of the season?

Possibly. For Crystal Palace at Anfield. It wouldn't bother me if they did or they didn't actually. I'll tell you what Elliot, I'm looking forward to hearing what you're going to say about this because next week obviously John without going to hospital will be in Paris for the return of Paris Saint-Germain against Arsenal on the Wednesday and then Thursday we'll have a choice of listening. We will have either Manchester United against Athletic Bilbao or Bodo forward slash Glimt against Tottenham. So you've got a trip to the Arctic

Circle next week. Yeah, I am as Pep Guardiola would say, so, so excited. Everyone was so excited. So excited when everyone was so excited you know to do it. So excited about that. I mean we go to so many fantastic places with our job but the chance to go there. So someone told me that Tottenham Hotspur Stadium is closer to Oslo than Oslo is to Bodo. Oslo, then Oslo is to Bodo. So if you drive from Oslo to Bodo to get to Northern Norway, that's going to take you 15 to 20 hours. It's sort of London to Edinburgh and back again. You're inside the Arctic Circle, tiny little stadium. They're really good at home. Their home record in Europe is fantastic. I watched the first leg of the semi-final against Lazio

They beat them to nil it could have been five nil It's gonna be such a fascinating trip that somebody told me there were only about 400 tickets available for Tottenham fans Yeah, because the stadium is so small and also John this is new news because Last I'd heard there was some doubt over whether we would actually be able to a get there And be whether you'd have somewhere to stay. So what's the latest on that? So the latest on that is I think accommodation became available because I think John that some fans possibly or people planning to go Couldn't make it or whatever. So we have found accommodation. We're okay on that front and flights It's just it's just a fly into Oslo and then pick up a flight

there I think it looks like the games on Thursday I don't think we can get out on the Friday so it looks like got a day in Podo on Friday which is fantastic and then coming home on the Saturday so I'm really I mean they've become a bit of a sort of commentators view favorite haven't they this season very much so you've got the going ticket here yeah and I think it probably means maybe a commentators view record it will actually next Friday will mean a commentators view recording from from the Arctic Circle if I can join you from there so that'll be that'll be great I thought when John said I've got new news I thought he was gonna say the

reason he didn't go to see he's not going to Stanford Bridge on Sunday is that he's now going to the Arctic Circle instead of you next week. He would love it. He would love it. I would love it. Well you know as the correspondent he could call that man he could call that if he wanted to do it. You know what's funny though Rob Schofield will be producing you out there and he's here in Bilbao with me so when we arrived on Wednesday it was 30 degrees and the sun was shining and I think 2600 Manchester United fans were enjoying the fine weather. However, Rob has looked ahead to next week in the Arctic Circle and he says snow is forecast. No. Yeah.

And so Paul Robinson is going to be with you and obviously Paul's with me out here now. And he was saying that they're so fortunate that they don't have to go from Bilbao straight to the Arctic Circle because you imagine having to pack your case, you'd have your shorts and your t-shirts and then you're going to have to dig out the thermals for next week. Have to take your solar pet. Yeah, I think so for the semi-final against Lazio, home legs, snow had to be cleared from the pitch and I think temperatures I'll be looking next week, they'll be, it'll be like winter football in England I think, it won't be, it doesn't look like it's had to be cleared from the pitch and I think temperatures I'll be looking next week they'll be it'll be like winter football in England I think it won't be mine it doesn't look like it's gonna be minus temperatures it'll be low

single figures in the evening but it will be I mean given the weather we're having in the UK here this week it's gonna be a sharp drop in temperatures for a couple of days but I'll you know I'll take that. I once went to the well I've been to the Arctic Circle a few times but I once went to the the because the Arctic Circle covers four countries did you know that? Russia? Russia's the one it's Finland, Sweden, Norway and in terms of European countries sorry you've got Russia, Sweden, Finland and Norway and I went to Roe Ross in northern Norway I don't know how far that this is from Bodo Glimt. Were you trying to go and see Ricky Ross and you went to Roe Ross instead?

Easy mistake to make. It is. I would love to see Deacon Blue in the Arctic Circle. I've seen them everywhere else but are there I think. No, at Roe Ross, Kevin Keegan and Newcastle United took 400 deprived school kids from Tyneside to see Santa Claus. So I actually have been to Lapland to see Santa. Producer Nathan is telling me Bodo is 12 hours north of Roe Ross apparently. Wow.

Yeah, I kept saying, oh I'm going north of the Arctic Circle. So this morning I actually looked up some stuff on the Arctic Circle and so it marks the southernmost latitude at which on the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere the sun doesn't rise all day, which is called the polar night, and on the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere the sun doesn't set, which is the midnight sun. But anyway, it's going to be, it's, you know, it is, we get to do some amazing things don't we and cover some great sport, but to go to places, you know, it is, we get to do some amazing things, don't we, and cover some great sport, but to go to places, you know, if we didn't do this job, I would never go to Bodo, I don't think.

No. It would be very unlikely, so. Well, enjoy. Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to it. I don't think we're going to necessarily enjoy this next segment, though. I don't think enjoy is the type of word that you would sort of like apply to the clash of the commentators. In focus on the Football Daily every Saturday catch the biggest names from

the Premier League and beyond as they share all with nothing off-limits. We are here to speak to Arsenal's Ricardo Calafiore. Ruben Amorim, welcome to the Football Daily. When I had this invitation, I felt that I had to do this. Rodri, that was incredible. Thank you for having me here. In Focus, only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast

with exclusive access to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards. And I'm sports journalist Matt Magindy. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure. This week Matt sits down with team principal Christian Horner. You don't want to miss that. Watching him drive the car is a little bit like Roger Federer at the top of his game. So he'll be here driving for Red Bull next season. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. I'm predicting this week, I like this category and I think it's good for football commentators

but I'm predicting a tense, low-scoring thriller. I think it's quite tough. So I beat Ian last week on, well some might say controversially, well no I wouldn't actually on teams to play in white or claret, the main body of the shirtie in being white or claret. This week it's a basement battle. I heard what you said as well last week, you called me grumpy. Well this won't cheer you up, here's the current leaderboard.

I'm 8 from 10, Ian 4 from 10, John needs a win. Paul run a form for the correspondent, 3 from 10. Ian against John, who would like to throw first will bearing in mind i'm remote i think i'm gonna have to go first because i can't disconnect in is going to go first okay some just gonna see john john is disconnected i can see that here we go so in

wednesday night's match between barcel Barcelona and Inter was the joint highest score draw in a UEFA Champions League semi-final along with Dynamo Kiev 3, Bayern Munich 3 from April 1999. Today then, 3 is the magic number. I need you to name as many Premier League number 3s as you can from this season. Players who wear the number three shirt, okay? I will tell you Ian, I will tell you, Newcastle, Nottingham Forest and Everton do not have a number three. Do not go looking there, but the other 17 Premier League clubs do. So you've got 30 seconds to name as many number threes as you can starting now. Martin? Erm...

Come on. Zinchenko? No, not Zinchenko. It's difficult, isn't it? It's difficult. It plays to the commentator because we write down these squad lists or whatever, and I think threes, just looking at the list I think threes are so difficult also I just thought Ian you took a slight risk there because you remember your it's not Cantona in one of those answers you went you actually asked a question you said is it so and so at so and so obviously if it's correct it'll be allowed but playing a bit faster than loose

yeah I did I was but I was thinking I think Zinchenko is 17 I think off the top of my head. Anyway, I'll be quiet. Yeah, let's give him a wave. I'm not sure, well I'm not going to tell you how many you got right. I think this is going to be close. Correspondent's putting the headphones back on. Can he deliver today? Right, John. Wednesday night's match between Barcelona and Inter was the joint highest score draw in a UEFA Champions League semi-final along with Dinamo Kiev 3, Bayern Munich 3, back in April 1999. So today 3 is the magic number. I need you to name as many Premier

League number 3s, so players who wear the number three shirt playing in the Premier League this season, I will tell you John, just to help you, Newcastle, Nottingham Forest and Everton do not have a number three. So don't waste your time going there, okay? So as many number threes as you can, your time starts now. Everton's number three... Is that O'Brien? Fulham's number three... Can't even think of one. No.

Cannot even think of one. No. No. So, all it needs then is for Ian to have got an answer correct. Now, Ian threw out four names. He said Costa Simicas incorrect. Liverpool's number three is Wataru Endo. Although I didn't even get to L. No. Alexander Zinchenko you said but no. Arsenal's number three is Kieran Tierney. That's a difficult one I think. So the other two answers from Ian were

Leif Davis at Ipswich, correct, to win the game, and the other one an incredible pluck of Ryan Manning of Southampton. It's just an astonishing answer to win it 2-0. So Denno wins this week's Cl of the commentators and do you want to lations I think that's hard I think John I was just saying to then it plays to the commentator because we write these numbers down all the time and we're all about sort of wrecking but I if I read this list to you there's not many that are obvious answers right so Tierney at Arsenal barely plays good question yeah it's good question Diego Carlos Villa is a three Milosh he's gone gone anymore

gone but he's not assigned wouldn't it yeah yeah still be assigned Milosh Kirkez Rico Henry Igor Giulio all of these really difficult Kukureya I thought you might get Kukureya. Tyrick Mitchell at Palace, now you saw them last weekend. Bassy at Fulham, Leaf Davis, Wout Fass at Leicester, Watanuendo at Liverpool, Ruben Diaz is Manchester City's number three, Nusair Masraoui at Manchester United, Ryan Manning amazing, Sergio Reguilon, whose name I wrote down in the Tottenham squad but you know hasn't featured for the donkey's years, Ryan Cresswell and Rayan Ait Nouri at Wolves at year number three. It's difficult, difficult. But it means

that Ian goes to five from eleven, John three from eleven and I remain eight from ten. There we go. Good, excellent, thoroughly enjoyed that again. Oh dear. I'm actually going to the dentist after this. I'd rather go to the dentist than do this. Well, something you do enjoy. You do actually, yeah. Yeah, they keep... anyway, we don't need to get into that. Don't give hair Chapman more ammunition. You've seen a lot of medics, haven't you,

recently? Well something you do enjoy John is the great glossary of football commentary as we debate and discuss some of this week's listener suggestions of football specific commentary terms and phrases to add to our collection. Now last week we had Stuart the Bristol City fan from Bridgewater cement their position we agreed no. John in Bangor in Northern Ireland relegation six-pointer that was a yes and Villa fan David schoolboys own stuff slash boys own stuff yes. The disputes disputes now Liverpool fan Steve I cannot agree with boys own or schoolboys own as referring exclusively to football surely it would be used in cricket and possibly rugby Michael has sent us an email I've always

had a problem with the six-pointer phrase it makes zero sense to me as every single league match is a six-pointer phrase. It makes zero sense to me as every single league match is a six-pointer if you apply the same silly logic to make the supposed six-pointer gap change. If the teams are at the bottom of the league then relegation battle applies. Near the top could be a title battle, everything else could be covered by mid-table battle or European place battle etc. I'm not suggesting those phrases need to go in the glossary but I am voting for the six-pointer phrase recently added to the glossary to be removed based on it making no sense as it is describes something that doesn't exist. But it is a phrase that's used you can't get away with that. I don't think

it's football specific six-pointer. Right I know that's that's a separate issue. How many points do you get for a win in rugby that's that's a separate issue to get for how many points to get for a win in rugby well that's a good point therefore it might not be a six pointer that's a good pointer but i think john's right i think i would use relegation six pointer but do it slightly tongue-in-cheek so as connor has previously expressed on this pod it's getting across to your audience very quickly the message that this game is vital because if one team wins it, it's such a dent to the other team who are fighting relegation against them. I don't think there's a better term for that. It doesn't mathematically make sense but I was happy last week with it being in the glossary so I'm going to vote for it to stay

there unless people can tell us in other sports three points for a win and you get relegation six points. That's where I stand. Mmm. The debate goes on. I think Liverpool fans Steve, I think he might be right there. I think cricket you would talk about boys on stuff. Flintoff 2005 ashes, boys on. Yeah. I know what you mean.

I know what you mean. We might have to take that out. Maybe that has to go. Mmm. Disappointing. That is a shame. The Villa fan David will not be happy, but I actually agree. I agree with Steve. I think it would. Yeah. Final dispute.

If that hadn't been on last week, I would have got, I wouldn't have agreed with that. So first voice note of the pod this week, and I'm looking forward to this one as well. This is another dispute. This is an interesting take this comes from Derek Hi fellas it's Derek here a Legion United fan from East Yorkshire I just wanted to talk about a phrase that was added to the football glossary where the owl sleeps now then this was indicated to be the top corner of the goal when in fact owls do not hang upside down from an object, they perch on top of an object. So the owl sleeping would be just above the bar, not in the top corner. This could in fact be where the bat sleeps. Bats hang upside down from things. So the phrase surely should be where the bat

sleeps. I love that I love that that's a really really good point so that if the owl is sleeping the owl is going to be perched on top of the crossbar above the goal his body is going to be above the goal but the bat is sleeping upside down so if you Declan Rice into the top corner, you're hitting the bat, you're not hitting the owl. I like it, Derek, I do like that. So if you went where the owl sleeps, you miss. Exactly, yeah. Oh, by the way, I must say, and I won't use them in this week's podcast, Phil Zentner, our engineer who's coming over to Norway next week loves the language of football like we do. He has sent me

10 Norwegian football related idioms. Some of them are superb so I will be trying to get as many of those into commentary as I can without disrupting the flow of the commentary obviously. You're going to need extra time next week. Yeah maybe. Yeah maybe, maybe but they're going to need extra time next week yeah maybe yeah maybe maybe but they're really good and poster Koglo would want extra time no but you crikey you well he might need extra time to stay in a job see what it pressure

yeah on the back of Derek's voice note Sandy and County Tyrone has sent an email afternoon chaps after all your chats about where the owl sleeps etc. I wonder if a less common term for another part of the goal might be suitable for entry into the hallowed pages of commentary vernacular, the stanchion. I haven't heard it used for a while but certainly in the 80s and 90s it was commonplace. He shoots but strikes the stanchion meaning the poles used to hold up the posts. I can't think of any other sports where you'd use it. Loving your work, take care, Sandy in County Tyrone."

Well, we do occasionally mention the stanchion, don't we? But of course the stanchion used to be within the goal, wasn't it? You'd talk about the stanchion. Do you remember? Yeah. And there were occasions where the ball would actually hit the stanchion and come back out. Famous. And what about the Trevor Brooking goal? Which was like a curly stanchion in the NEP stadium in Budapest where the ball stuck in the stanchion. Yeah. That is a good category for goals because we were talking the other day Chris Sutton and I about Ian Rush's goal slightly different in the

1986 Cup final that hits the camera, that knocks the camera down but goals like that that are sort of stick in your mind because of the way they finished in the net that's that's that's quite good one I like remember on the ultimate titles of grandstand for quite a while they are very effectively used that where you rush your shot hits that and it goes da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da sunshine it's from Jack. I would like to suggest that the term thrown their cap on it be inducted.

I feel that this term perfectly encapsulates the moment a goalkeeper rather easily saves a tame shot by falling forwards onto the ball. Of course today's goalkeeper is far too cool to wear a cap even during the kinds of sunny spells that we've been blessed with recently. So for me this description also has that rather charming effect of evoking a sense of nostalgia. I can't think of anyone throwing their cap on anything, be that literally or metaphorically, in any other sport and so hope the term gets the much coveted TCV seal of approval. So there we are, throw their cap on it which is a bit of a favorite of mine because that was a Mark Lawrenceon phrase wasn't it that Mark would use and I don't think I've ever heard anyone else use it and you know

I still occasionally will use that with reference to Mark. Would you ever like a dolly of a slip catch would you ever say in cricket he could throw his cap on it? No because a goalkeeper sort of falling on the ball isn't he it's such a weak shot sort of along the floor i think that he sort of flops down on it and picks it up. Do you remember another cricketing phrase which which is very much a cricket phrase which was he caught that like shelling peas which i never quite understood that one. Yeah i don't know shelling peas is a simple task yeah definitely no that is definitely

shelling peas definitely but would you. Yeah, definitely. No, that is definitely. Like shelling peas. Definitely one. But would you ever use that in football? Like a goalkeeper sort of catching a cross and he caught it like shelling peas? No. But I think throw the cap on it. I can't imagine another sport where you'd use that. But it's also of a particular time.

That's what I like about that one. So if you use it today, you know, the cap the cap that comes to my mind there is like old bill fatty folks wearing a big old flat cap in gold and chucking that on it's not a modern club logo baseball cap is it? I like it not sure if it gets in though

because well as you say would we still would you still use that or would you include it in the glossary to say that this was a phrase that... Well, on Dano's book tour we could have a retro book, Dano, that's another book we could do for the glossary. Well no, I've said for BBC publications you're going to have those that are included and

you flip the book the other way around and it could be in the ones that have been excluded. Speaking of tours, are we allowed to mention what we've not mentioned? I don't know actually. Maybe we shouldn't then. Speaking of tours. If we're expecting people to come and watch it then presumably we'll have to mention it at some stage. I know.

Maybe we should say speaking of tours or tours to us watch this space yeah okay what so exciting announcement coming potentially on this podcast potentially exciting announcement coming yeah yeah okay the summer and last one for the glossary John which we haven't read I have to say we should say it we actually haven't said it we've just been no we haven't said it So I have to say we should say it, we actually haven't said it, we've just been... No we haven't said it, because we've not been told we can say it. No no but say we should, I'm just saying now maybe we should just say it, say there could be some exciting news. Okay, go on then, you say it. Okay someone say it excitingly. Okay, the world tour might be starting in the summer. Might have a first date. Yes. Watch this space

as they say. Commentators view on tour, genuinely. Potentially. Potentially. Wow. That is exciting. It is. At a theatre near you. Potentially near you. but we can't say anything just yet apparently and it's not as far away as the Arctic Circle no it's not but if we don't actually say something there'll be nobody there yeah so I love to say something at some stage if it's gonna happen yeah waiting for the white smoke. Yes, so that's one to listen out for. Maybe Herre Chapman will make an appearance. Unlikely. Well. Last one for the glossary.

This is actually from a BBC colleague, Rick. Oh, okay. Who says- Or Edwards. No, no, not that, no, a different Rick. And he says, big fan of the Commentators for your podcast. I've listened to almost all the episodes. So excuse me if this has already been nominated for the glossary as someone like you well north of six feet tall I've always been bemused by the line great touch for a big man The implication is that taller than average players are somehow genetically

Dispositioned to having a poor first touch or at best are naturally clumsy on the ball. The same goes for stocky well-built footballers. Although I've heard this used occasionally in golf, for example Ernie Als has a great touch around the greens for a big man. This is surely a football term originally. It never fails to make me grin so I feel it's a worthy nomination for the glossary. And a brief second suggestion would be everyone's favorite football term to take mainstream society by storm worldy no explanation needed great touch for a big man that's used it I would say it's football yeah I mean yeah very full golf with Ernie

Ells you'd say he has a great touch you'd say he has a jeweler's touch John Ben Crenshaw would but it was said of Er would. But it was said of Ernie Ells. That was said of Ernie Ells wasn't it? Because he was quite... For a big man. Yeah it was. No. Really? Yeah it was.

I don't think that makes a difference in golf. Right okay. On a similar-ish theme, commentating on Donnarumma again the other night, who got down very well to make that save from Trossard found myself being drawn into he did very well to get down there for a big man to make the save. And I'm very much on the so great touch for a big man. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Worldy yes yes it will be for me is no because will be i think it's a phrase

the playground or the pope i don't think it's a phrase for the glossary of football commentary okay i'm gonna throw back at you with that because i remember hearing you once and i know again you were doing it with tongue-in-cheek but describing a crowd

celebrating I can't remember which game it was and you use the word scenes which I would say and you use that in a commentary and I would say that's the same as worldy if it's in the same ballpark as worldy that if I did use words like that yeah my modus operandi would be to say something like as they say. Yeah, you did. You did. You very much did that. Yeah. Yeah. But could a worldie also apply in other sports? Give me another sport with a worldie. Well, you could have a put from, I don't know, 30 feet. Or it's a worldie. Never would never describe it as a worldy when golf never I don't think catch

Taking an absolute worldy Well, it's not getting in is it okay? No for both probably for both those reasons probably for both those reasons all right before we go Let's just round it up on the glossary so boys own we're saying has been removed because it can feature in other sports. This is a problem with a few of them Six-pointer is remaining with apologies to Michael Strikes the stanchion in in in a beef football content. Yeah Goalkeeper throws their cap on it. What about hockey? Could it strike the stanchion in hockey? Maybe it could, yeah. I've never heard that in hockey. I'm hearing a lot of hockey commentaries at the moment. Well, if you listen during the Olympics you hear tons of them.

That's a good point. Throws their cap on it. I like it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, yeah. Good touch for a big man. Yes and world, no. Agreed. Excellent. Agreed, until someone emails in and we have to change them next week. Don't forget you can send in your WhatsApp voice notes

to 08289369 and the emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. The next episode of the Football Daily will be in focus with Justin Klyvert. And remember, you can catch every single episode of The Commentator's View on the Football Daily will be in focus with Justin Klyvert and remember you can catch every single episode of the Commentator's View on the Football Daily feed on BBC Sounds. I can't remember, Kieran Tieny by the way, Kieran Tieny who actually for the other night I forgot to prepare for.

So I forgot to prepare for him, then when I realised that on Tuesday, I hurriedly prepared for him with his number three. And then forgot about him. So I forgot about him twice this week. Were you alphabetically going through the Premier League there to try and pick a number threes, yeah? Through the clubs. Because you actually didn't say one player. I know.

That's because I could have got... How did you get Manning? When did you do Southampton last? Do you know what I was thinking? I was going through the... I was thinking of left backs. So I was thinking... and then I was thinking of the numbers. So I said, Leaf Davis, Manning. It's a good question because the left backs you naturally think of are not number three. Yeah. No, Robertson. Dias. Did Patterson or Everton used to be a number three? So the left backs, Mikhailenko's 19, isn't he? I should have gone.

Yeah, well, I'm not grumpy this week, anyway. A new series of Match of the Day Top Ten is out now, only available on BBC Sounds. Join myself, Garry Lineker, Alan Shearer, Micah Richards and my dog, as we dig into the Top Ten of the Champions League. We go through our favourite goalscorers, best moment and even our all-time 11th. Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast with exclusive access to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards. And I'm sports journalist Matt Magindy. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure.

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