Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: FA Cup Special

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce-Ball present an FA Cup Special. They discuss the magic of the FA Cup, from giant killings to pigeon-infested commentary positions.Has the schedule taken away some its allure? Who has the best non-league knowledge in Clash of the Commentators? And where does everyone most look forward to going?01:00 Magic of the FA Cup 02:55 The schedule 05:55 How Sean Dyche’s sacking affected Ali’s prep 09:30 VAR from a commentator’s perspective 14:40 Tunnel interviews 21:25 FA Cup memories 25:20 Biggest cupsets 29:40 Tamworth vs Spurs 31:50 FA Cup replays: yes or no? 34:15 Question from Euro Leagues 36:40 Non-league themed Clash of the Commentators 42:15 Great Glossary of Football5 LIVE COMMENTARIES THIS WEEKEND Friday 10th January FA CUP: Aston Villa v West Ham United 2000 KOSaturday 11th January FA CUP: Bristol City v Wolverhampton Wanderers 1200 KO FA CUP: Liverpool v Accrington Stanley 1215 KO FA CUP: Brentford v Plymouth Argyle 1500 KO FA CUP: Leeds United v Harrogate Town 1745 KO FA CUP: Manchester City v Salford City 1745 KOSunday 12th January FA CUP: Tamworth v Spurs 1230 KO FA CUP: Newcastle United v Bromley 1500 KO FA CUP: Crystal Palace v Stockport County 1500 KO

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello there, I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and welcome again to The Commentator's View where this week, surprise, surprise, it's an FA Cup special. I don't think we're going to be short of stuff to talk about today. Loads of your emails to answer as well. We're loving those. Send them in on tcv at bbc.co.uk So on the weekend of the

third round kicking off, we will once again be taking you behind the microphone and telling you the stories that you don't normally get to hear from us five live commentators. One of those is me. The other two are here again. Ian Dennis and John Murray, who've both been busy this week

with the other major domestic cup competition, commentating on the first legs of the League Cup semi-finals. But John, in terms of FA Cup third round weekend, does it still have the allure, as Inspector Clouseau might say, allure that it always did? For me,

there is nothing like the magic of the FA Cup third round Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, which I think is a little too diluted for my liking. OK, we'll get into the scheduling in a bit because I know Ian has a little bit to say about that as well. But just in terms of the games, you know, FA Cup third round games, the ties it throws up, the games you will see this weekend, John, for example, Leeds against Harrogate, Tamworth against Tottenham.

Do they float your boat? Well, I've been sitting here this morning while we were waiting for Ian to get connected. And I've just been going through some of the places that I've been and had great FA Cup experiences. And it's actually a long, long list now. So, you know, Shrewsbury, Macclesfield, Crawley, Sutton, Yeovil, Fleetwood, Chorley, Newport,

Walking, Wimbledon, Rochdale, Kidderminster, Marine. The list goes on. And for me, you know, this could be third round could be fourth round could actually be later as well but when you go to those places and big clubs arrive and you get there and you feel what it's like and you know that is very very special and i don't care what anyone says people can say you know it isn't what it was. And I think there's certainly an argument in that. And I think very often, you know, the powers that be haven't helped themselves. And it's very much financial driven, that side of things.

You know, we've reached the point that we have. However, when you actually boil it down and you're at some of those places, when it's a big FA Cup tie, people are genuinely excited. It is very, very different and it still gets my juices flowing. Ian? This used to be such a special weekend and I think it has lost a lot of its allure, as you would say.

I felt more excited around the FA Cup first round weekend this season than i have for this weekend um i just think that the scheduling the powers that be need to decide whether the catering for the supporter who is in the armchair or the match going spectator because i have posed the question on social media recently, can anybody make a case for the magic of the FA Cup when you've got 32 ties spread over five days and 11 different time slots? And bearing in mind on Thursday night,

a crowd at Bramall Lane, I mean, why on earth Sheffield United Cardiff is taking place on a Thursday night and you had a crowd of 6,126 and only 150 attending from Cardiff? That, for me, provides the answer. I mean, the turnout from the Peterborough fans at Goodison Park last night, so obviously third round weekend is underway. We're recording this on Friday morning.

You'll be listening to this at earlier sort of Friday afternoon. I mean, Peterborough's turnout at that game last night was brilliant. But in your particular slot, Ian, your regular commentary slot, three o'clock on a Saturday, growing up as a lad, but even in my first 10, 15 years as a commentator at Five Live, getting one of those three o'clock reporting games on a Saturday on FA Cup third round weekend was one of the highlights of the football calendar for me. Because you'd have 20, I don't know, 20, 25 games all kicking off at the same time. Stories developing all over the place. It was one of the truly great listens for a couple of hours, wasn't it?

On a Saturday afternoon in January. Absolutely, yeah. But I'm talking more from a fan's point of view. On one of those given Saturdays you're talking about, you'd be travelling down the motorway, there'd be thousands of fans going. And Peterborough would have, you know, there'd be many a young Peterborough supporter who might have been denied the opportunity of going to Goodison Park with a scheduling on a Thursday night. And I know that, you know, in the past, certainly I remember an FA Cup tie, Liverpool-Newcastle was on a Friday evening. I get the demands of television. But at the same time, football is nothing without the paying spectator.

And I think we're in danger of diluting the magic of the FA Cup to such an extent that once you lose the fans, then I think there's no going back. We've actually, in the first couple of minutes here, already answered one of the emails we got sent in. So Malcolm very kindly sent us an email in on precisely this subject about the scheduling of the FA Cup ties, the dilution of the whole thing across the weekend.

So thank you for that, Malcolm. My next question to you two, which comes off the back of my experience at Goodison Park last night for Everton against Peterborough. Have you ever, can you remember a game you've commentated on when the manager gets sacked

about three hours before kickoff? It's so funny, John, the other week on this podcast, you were talking about how we still go to games 20 years into our careers, and you see something that you've never seen happen before, and you think you've seen everything, and you never have.

I can't remember a game I've turned up. I'd literally just got to the car park at Stanley Park, and I switched the radio on. Sean Dyche had been sacked. I mean, it brought to my mind when Mark Hughes and Martin Yoll were both in a situation whereby everyone on the outside

knew that this was it and that was going to be their final matches in charge of Manchester City and Tottenham. And so it proved to be the case, which I thought was very, very odd. But in terms of being sacked in the immediate hours before a match, I can't think of one. No, I can't think of one either.

And indeed, I got a text about an hour before it broke from a contact saying, you might need to check this out. This comes from an impeccable source. And I was in the process of doing so and then an hour late. But I actually, my first reaction was, really?

On the day of a game? But I'm led to believe that it had taken place days before. It was just a question of sorting out the terms of Sean Dyche's departure. But still, nevertheless, extremely surprising. I lost you for a second there, John, when you gave your first answer, because we were pinging around a few suggestions about unusual timings last night, weren't we, of managers getting sacked?

I mean, the ones that immediately came to mind for me, but they were slightly different, were, I remember Roberto Mancini, actually it's FA Cup related. Do you remember when they lost the FA Cup final to Wigan? I think going into that game, we knew he was going to get sacked. Everyone knew he was going to get sacked, and he did. And then, obviously, Louis van Gaal won the FA Cup, didn't he, in 2016, and got sacked the day after.

That's right. And I remember being in the press conference. It had definitely emerged on the day that this was it and that van Gaal would be on his way. And I'll never forget that press conference when he marched in with the FA Cup in his hand and plonked it on the table. He was up for it after having just won the FA Cup

and yet knowing that he was going to suffer this indignity. But the Martin Yall one was against Hetafe. And I'm sure around half time the rumors were so strong during the game that he was gone that effectively he was he was sacked mid-game wasn't he when he was the tottenham manager did you that also reminds me and i'm going massively off topic here but memories of interviewing martin yall chain smoking in that little room just off the tunnel at White Hart Lane I mean he was a character wasn't he I really enjoyed dealing with and actually he did some

games with us as well didn't he which tournament was that that he came to it was World Cup in Germany yeah 2006 did either of you two work with him no there's a very funny story of Connor working with him though do you know this one Ian where yes yeah. Where Connor and Martin Yoll are doing the game together, and they've done an hour pre-match, and they're chatting away, and it's Connor and Martin on air, and they're talking to whoever the presenter is. Then they do the first half commentary. I think I'm telling this right.

And then it gets to halftime, and the presenter joins in again and says to Martin Yoll, says, well, Connor was saying da-da-da-da-da, and Martin Yoll turns and goes who who who's this Connor who's this Connor guy having been sitting next to him for the whole game um right before we get into the FA Cup and chat about some of the ties Phil Corbett sent us a question around VAR so Phil's taken his can of worms and he's just peeling the top off it here um and it's particularly pertinent I think Ian given the historic moment

at the tottenham hotspur stadium on wednesday night you were there stewart atwell announced dominic solanke's goal would be disallowed over the tannoy system at the ground so phil says dear ali john and ian um i have a question how has the introduction of var changed the job of a commentator does the commentator have access to the same var visuals as we see on tv or do you have additional images which helps you describe the situation to the listeners what are the challenges in explaining the var review to listeners on five live commentaries particularly the often lengthy waits for var decisions and finally given the controversy surrounding many var decisions is it a challenge for commentators to stay neutral on the use of VAR in the modern game?

Keep up the great work, says Phil. So how about that moment then, Ian, on Wednesday night? Well, Phil, if I was to try and stay neutral, all I would say is I'm probably with Ange Postacoglu. And I'll leave it at that. As for the other night, Ali, I don't know about you as a listener. I didn't think that the delay helped. I don't think that what Stuart Atwell actually said gave us anything different to what we already knew anyway,

that he was offside. Maybe for a more subjective call, when they're having to explain, say, a handball, then that might be more beneficial. But also, again, for the paying spectator inside the stadium, those at home knew 30 seconds before what happened. There was still a delay. I think we're in – Glenn Murray, I heard on Radio 5 recently,

say we're in danger of going down the line of the NFL and American football. And, you know, if every decision is going to have to get explained and talked about, we're going to have a lot of delays in the game. Yeah, I mean, NFL I like and it's very stop start and it actually works really well in the game. But it's a very different game to football over here. I mean, John, in terms of, you know, Phil's questions around the challenges as a commentator, what do you think about that? Well, first of all, on the announcement, I mean, it is a trial.

So, you know, we should bear that in mind. It is trial and error. And I'm with Ian. You know, you and I have discussed it, haven't we, Ian, since the other night, that the last thing you need is something that delays matters even further. And therefore, I think you'd have to,

if this was brought in permanently, I think you'd have to really pick and choose about what it is that you explain. And, you know, there's got to be a quick decision made there. And you're absolutely right. If it's something that's very difficult to pick up for people in the stands, then that's worth explaining isn't it um but but i think in terms

of what it does as a commentator and and also by the way an angbuster codglu saying that no one discussed handballs and offsides before var came on the scene i think that's slightly disingenuous and i'd point him out to start with diego maradona perhaps uh would be uh would be a good place to start in terms of uh debate over handballs before var um you know and as i always say i i do think that this is a generational thing and i think in in generations down the line you will reach a point where uh you know no one's ever known anything different than before var um so you know and we're you know, and we're still at a very, we're still at a very, very early stage of them trying to get this right.

In terms of commentating, I think that, you know, I find talking about the FA Cup, I thought a good example was the Coventry Manchester United semifinal last season. You know, big, very, very tight call for for offside but it I felt that made it doubly and even triply dramatic for a commentator the one thing Phil I would say very quickly before we move it on and thank you again for the email is that when you do a commentary for match of the day you have the option of listening to the conversation between the VAR official and the match officials we don't have that option while we're commentating for five live and when you're

not used to it it's slightly off-putting but actually for the trickier decisions I quite like it you won't you won't repeat word for word what they're saying but it gives you a real insight into what they're looking at what they're. And I think that really helps you inform the audience. But like I say, when we do five live games, we don't have access to that audio. I'm sure at some point down the line, people will be able to hear that. And I think, you know, I feel as,

when I've been in those situations, I really think it helps you understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. Definitely. Just on that game that Ian did on Wednesday night, Tottenham and Liverpool in the League Cup, another interesting moment came after the game when Steve Crossman threw to John Southall in the tunnel, who was about to interview Ange Postacoglu live on air. Just have a little listen to this. Let's hear from Ange Postacoglu, then. He's live with John Southall. Hi, Steve. If you just give us a couple

of minutes, we'll hopefully be with you shortly. He's just finishing another interview at the moment. Good whispering, John. Tell him who's asking from, John. Yeah, John. Does he not know it's you, John? Come on, John. Tell him. Tell him. Charlie's asking from. I think he's just about to come to

the end of his answer, so if you just bear with one second, Steve. Yeah, that's fine. It's a very long answer. Don't worry about it. It's a bit like David Attenborough interviewing Andrew Poster Coghlu, John, is what it'll be like. This is quite strange.

He's never really done this before. He's got time for a good question now, though, hasn't he? He's had quite a long answer. Michael, maybe we should have said that you wanted him, because you said that you've spent time with Andrew Poster Coghlu. Well, no, I've interviewed him He's had quite a long answer. Michael, maybe we should have said that you wanted him because you said that you've spent time with Ange Postacoglu. Well, no,

I've interviewed him. He was very, very good. He was very open. I'm sure John's got a few questions. Ange, thanks for talking to us on Five Live. Just give us your emotions

after that. Yeah, really sort of pleased just for the players. Michael Brown being ever so slightly mischievous there as they were waiting for Ange Postacoglu to get to the point.

I'm not sure John Southall, to begin with there, knows he's on air initially, or does he, do you think? No, I think he... I was with John. I think he was expecting him to come a lot quicker than he actually did, but you two would have been ideal for that situation with your experience of commentating and whispering quietly on the uh on the golf courses yeah i mean i john i quite like moments like that because we're all about live sport on five live aren't we that is live reaction in the tunnel and you genuinely feel like you're down

there with john southall and you're sort of in those hushed tones and you can sense people moving around and postacoglu finishing an interview i mean it happens to you all the time doesn't it you guys when you do england quite often you know mark chapman will throw to you and you can sense people moving around and Postacoglu finishing an interview. I mean, it happens to you all the time, doesn't it? You guys, when you do England, quite often, you know, Mark Chapman will throw to you and you're waiting for whoever it is to come to you. I was just going to say, it definitely happened. I think it was possibly Helsinki, was it? Or it was one of the autumn matches anyway,

where I'm all lined up. I remember one in particular. Ollie Watkins is standing in front of me and I've had a chat with him. I said, they're coming live in a moment. Just bear with us. And at the moment, Mark was saying, right, let's go down to the tunnel area.

John's about to speak to Ollie Watkins. It was at that point that someone from some TV interviewer had sort of said, you know, we're ready for you now. And so they'd actually said, oh, we'll go and do the TV for and it's as mark was queuing over ollie watkins just sort of says bye and goes to and goes to do the tv interview and then of course the next one and so i've had to say it on air to mark sorry he was ready he was going to talk to us and uh and he's been dragged away then Then I think there was another one,

another player, exactly the same circumstances. Mark Hughes across to me again. I'm sorry, he's just been taken away from it. And I can hear Mark going, oh, what a rumphing down the line. And I'm thinking, I don't just stand down here going, yeah, bring Watkins here now. You know, there is an established

pecking order and you know there are umpteen different other people doing interviews with players after a match and uh and it's a bit of a it's a bit of a juggling system isn't it I had once an embarrassing moment you remember back in the day when sports report was an hour long and you'd be a reporter as soon as the full-time whistle goes you had a choice of either filing your report from your position or getting down to the tunnel and doing it live from the tunnel so it was middlesbrough everton and it was quite a convoluted way down to the oh that's a long way that's a long way down at middlesbrough so so i said after the full-time full-time whistle i'll go down to the tunnel i'll do it in the tunnel.

And I had an opportunity to get David Moyes live on the radio. So I put his headphones on. I've got my headphones on. And I've got to be with you in a minute, David. So David Moyes has got his headphones on. And before Mark Pugach or Ian Payne crosses to David Moyes, they say, well, actually, let's listen to the match report that Ian has previously pre-recorded from my

reporting position they then go to david and ask him the first question his opening gambit is well let me say first of all i disagree with the report of what you said there and i'm right in front of him and he must have known that it was me and i just bowed my head i just kept my head bowed throughout the whole of the interview then i said said to him, thanks for your time, David. It was excruciating. Imagine having to do that back in the day in front of, say, Brian Clough or Sir Alex Ferguson, your match report getting heard live by the manager. By the way, we're going to get on to FA Cup. It's just reminded me because we're talking about sports report.

And it only popped into my head this morning. But one of my third round memories very very unusual I don't think I've ever heard it happen another time was sports report Saturday afternoon five o'clock third round day and we managed to play the wrong we didn't play out of the blue we played the wrong music at the start of sports report I cannot remember another time that happening Mark Pugac I think I was at the same ground with him. I think we might have been at the same game together.

And had I been presenting, and I was nowhere near presenting at that point, that would have thrown me completely. But obviously Mark just carried on and handled it. Do you remember that, John? Yes, I do.

I do remember him handling it very well. 2013. 2013. And I know, I mean, it's no one's fault in particular something got queued up wrong uh but i think i think you know the producer who was in charge that day um we won't put a name on it will we john let's say no let's call let's call him graham let's just call him graham we could call him graham yeah felt absolutely uh felt absolutely terrible uh about it so we're going to get on to FA Cup. I'm just going to very quickly update you on our Golden Mike competition.

So new listeners to the commentators, you might not know this, but we're having a sort of the equivalent of the golden boot for commentators this season. Goal count for 2025 so far. These are goals that you have commentated on. John is in fine form and absolutely flying, but I do think we've got to do this in a sort of goals to games ratio but John you have 10 from three games so you had Brentford Arsenal on New Year's Day Liverpool Manchester United you had four what a cracking game that was to commentate on it was yeah it um that will definitely be one of my matches of the season I would very much expect so 10 from three that gives you a ratio of 3.33

recurring i'm 4 from 2 denno in 2025 and you're 3 from 2 at a ratio of one and a half so the big man has the lead at the moment there's a long way to go yeah but he's he's like the ange pasta coglue doesn't do goalless draws does he? he does not so I make it we've got 10 FA Cup third round commentaries over the next four days on Five Live and Sports Extra in terms of watching the football on BBC One Manchester City against Salford City

is on BBC One 5.45 on Saturday commentary of that will be on Sports Extra because John will be at Leeds against Harrogate, which will be the commentary on Five Live. And BBC One also has Arsenal-Manchester United at three o'clock on Sunday. Ian, three o'clock, Brentford-Plymouth for you on Saturday, and then you're doing Newcastle-Bromley on Sunday.

I mean, in terms of, you know, not necessarily those games, in terms of FA Cup third round games or moments or goals or even early round games that particularly stick out for you. So just preparing for this pod, is there a favourite of yours, Ian, that you have done in the FA Cup third round or fourth round? I did Stevenage-Newcastle. When was that? Was that 2011? When Stevenage knocked out Newcastle United. That was quite a dramatic day. And I do, in fact, have memories of Broad Hall way

when Newcastle United played Stevenage during the reign of Kenny Dalgleish and Alan Shearer had come back from injury and he'd scored an early goal and he picked up a water bottle I think and he squirted it either at the Stevenage bench or he squirted it in the direction of somebody but that was quite

an acrimonious cup tie actually because they forced a replay, did Stevenage and it went back to St James' Park and in fact I think Newcastle that particular year reached the final um but I actually quite enjoy doing the the lower league teams at this stage I like I don't know about you two but I like doing the the prep well the other thing I was just going to say and what Ian was talking about there some of these grounds that you get to go to John so you'll be sitting at tamworth on sunday one of my favorite fa cup memories as a listener was it marine where you were sitting in a stand with clinton morrison behind the goal

and the pictures you painted that that's what i love about it as a radio listener you get to visit grounds that you've never been to before and as a radio commentator, you've got so much to work with, I think. Yeah, and that was sort of just coming out of COVID, the Marine Tottenham tie. Yeah, yeah. When for the one and only time in my commentary career of all of the hundreds, probably thousands of matches I've commentated on, that is the only one I've ever commentated on

from behind one goal which when it was first mooted i thought well we won't have to do that you know they'll find us somewhere they didn't no and we ended up and it was like well it's either it's either that or nothing yeah and we were behind the goal in the stand i mean that was a great day that that was uh that was quite extraordinary the build-up to that was was was really memorable yeah and um but also the other thing i remember where clinton and i was sitting was at the back right of the stands i wasn't even behind the goal it was like towards the corner flag but it was also up in the corner at the back of the stand there was also supposed to be social distancing going on at the time but the other thing was right up at the back of the stand

in the corner was where the the local pigeons would gather in the in the rafters above our spot and we ended up being torpedoed during the course of the match and when i when i got home i actually found pigeon droppings in my bag i hope you took a picture of that for social media john almost certainly in terms of of biggest upsets that you've seen live i'll chuck a couple in first of all um i did hip switch against maidston last season which is which is one of my favorite fa cup games live. I'll chuck a couple in first of all. I did Ipswich against Maidstone last season, which is one of my favourite FA Cup games I've ever done. I mean, just totally unexpected. Ipswich were in such

great form, absolutely flying in the championship and Maidstone United from the sixth tier. And not only that, they survived an onslaught for the first 15 minutes Maidstone United. It was classic FA Cup stuff, where they could have been 4-0 down within 15 minutes.

Can you remember the name of the goalkeeper? I knew you wouldn't be able to. He had a story, John. He had a story. It was a great story. I can't remember it. No. But the point I'm making is

that these people come into and have their 15 minutes of FA Cup fame. Well, I mean, in terms of prep for games as well, I very rarely do this. But I remember going to watch Maidstone in a National League South game, managed to sort of find a window to go and watch them because I was so sort of apprehensive about commentating on a team I'd never seen and players I didn't know and we very rarely have time in the schedule to go and do that that was invaluable I spent an evening watching them in a league game chatting to some of their fans and that that was worth more than four hours prep on the notes and and whatever but the goals they scored that day at Portman Road the first goal they scored to win that game Lamar Reynolds counter-attack goal was absolutely brilliant and the other one was Bradford who were in league one at the time winning at Chelsea when Chelsea had barely lost a home game in years

and actually I to be totally honest I turned up to that game slightly under prep because I just couldn't see it coming. It was a sports extra commentary and I did do the prep, but I was just thinking, Bradford are not going to win this. There is no way. They went 2-0 down as well and won it 4-2. And that was Phil Parkinson's brilliant team that got to the League Cup final a couple of seasons before, got promoted from League 2. And again, that was just...

And what I remember about that day was when Bradford's third and particularly fourth goals went in from our commentary position where we sit, the Chelsea fans, seats flipping up and throwing their arms in the air and walking out and stomping out. And we were obviously getting very excited

about what Bradford were doing, but you were in amongst Chelsea fans as you were doing it. But that was an amazing FA Cup upset. So, John, what about you in terms of upsets? Well, I've been very fortunate because I've seen so many of them over the years. And the one that I always think back to, though,

is Shrewsbury against Everton, David Moyes' Everton, when Everton were right up there at the top end of the Premier League and Shrewsbury, under Kevin Ratcliffe at the time, were right down at the bottom end of the Premier League and Shrewsbury under Kevin Ratcliffe at the time were right down at the bottom of the league. And that was magical. Absolutely magical.

Yeah. That I saw, to be there. And that was still relatively early days for me, I think. 2003, John. Yeah. So to be there and witness the kind of upsets that I'd seen from a distance over so many years. And I mean, I always remember listening to Mike Ingham

commentating when Wrexham knocked out Arsenal. Oh, yeah. And at that time, Wrexham had finished bottom of the league the previous season and Arsenal were the champions. I mean, you cannot get much more of an upset than bottom of the league knocks the champions out of the FA Cup. And it was brilliantly dramatic that, wasn't it, as well? That's one of the all-time classics. But Shrewsbury Everton wasn't really too far behind that no i referenced

that last night in commentary actually john because i was looking you know whenever you do a game like everton peterborough last night i was looking for you know when have everton been on the wrong end of an upset in the fa cup so 2008 they lost at home to oldham that was under david moyes but the shrewsbury nigel jemson i actually went back and watched the goals Nigel Jemison scored both of the goals and also you know Shrewsbury and that ground as it was then and the fellow Meadow and the fella in the coracle who collects the balls when they go over this it's just it's just brilliant it's brilliant but what about John just um Tamworth on Sunday have you ever been there I mean do you know do you know much about what you're going to there I've got an idea of what I'm I'm getting into uh because I've I've watched what they did in the

previous rounds and uh and and I know Gary our producer has been there twice this week to make sure that that all of the technicals uh are going to be working Gary and Phil our engineer so that there's been a there's been a lot of work gone into this during the course of this week. People don't see that. Funnily enough, I'm meeting Gary and Phil tonight. So after recording this, I'm on my way down to Bristol to do our first commentary on Five Live tomorrow.

It kicks off at midday at Ashton Gate, which is Bristol City against Wolves. And Phil Zentner, our engineer, reminded me, I don't think it was an FA Cup game, but he was an Ashton Gate when Bristol City played Wolves and the Wolves mascot had a punch-up with the Three Little Pigs.

Yeah. Do you remember that? That's true. So that is definitely getting a mention in commentary tomorrow. And the Three Little Pigs were nothing to do with Bristol City Football Club. They were connected to some company who I think were running a promotion.

They thought this is a clever idea. We'll have the wolf and we'll have the Three Little Pigs. But it turned into a proper punch up. Yeah, I remember it. And another fascinating fact that I discovered this morning when I was going through my various FA Cup third round experiences. So I did actually go back to my diary from 2003. And I was rather surprised to find out that I was supposed to be at Scunthorpe Leeds

on the day that I ended up at Shrewsbury Everton. So I've got Scunthorpe Leeds written in my diary with a line through it, replaced by Shrewsbury Everton. So there was obviously a late change of plan, which resulted in me ending up at the match, which provided me with one of my favourite FA Cup memories. Have you looked at what the result of Scunthorpe leads was that day? No, I haven't at all. We'll have to do that.

John, I've got a question for you as well. Jilly Tracy has sent us an email on tcv at bbc.co.uk it is a very simple short question here okay replays yes or no well in an ideal world yes absolutely absolutely uh and that's been part of the story hasn't it over the years um for such a long time and i think it's such a shame that because of the congestion at the top of the game that that's really had such a knock on for teams down the pyramid you know it's that is that is really sad yeah but it's kind of market forces isn't it coming into play it i have to say it felt quite odd last night at the start of the commentary saying extra time and penalties tonight you know

the original tie in a third round i've never said that before that this will go to extra time and penalty it will be decided tonight it just it just felt it felt odd um but you know in the history of the competition the fa cup it's great great history you know it would be wrong to think that it's always been the same yeah true you know remarkable things have happened during the course of of the history of the fa cup that came and went and unfortunately you know we are now in a position where we won't be going back will we no um let's just say as well we've got the question from the euro leagues podcast this you know, we are now in a position where we won't be going back, will we? No. Let's just say as well, we've got the question from the EuroLeagues podcast this weekend.

And their question is that they have talked a bit about Barcelona on EuroLeagues this week. So they're asking us what our favourite moment is covering Barcelona. So have a think about that and we'll get everyone's answers after the break. Joining us on the island, Gareth Southgate. I'm a huge patriot. Even just putting the training kit on, looked at the badge and yeah, it was quite a surreal moment. From the tracks he treasures to the book he'd bring, we talk leadership and life after England as we dive into Gareth's life and career. I love reading books on leadership. I'm also in a book club with a load of dads.

Dads? Yeah. Gareth Southgate on Desert Island Discs. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily What is your favourite moment

covering Barcelona? Well You'll have done that a lot I have done that a lot a lot more than me I've done that a lot My favourite moment covering Barcelona bearing in mind Well, you'll have done that a lot. I have done that a lot. A lot more than me. I've done that a lot. My favourite moment covering Barcelona,

bearing in mind that I think almost every time I've been there, the commentary position has been so high and so far away from the action, that my favourite moment covering Barcelona matches is when you can actually see what has happened. And remarkably, there's been quite a lot of incidents at Barcelona yeah when I thought what's that uh do you have one in a favorite moment covering Barcelona well it would it would have to be the the Liverpool game that we've discussed many times already in 2019 Barcelona though no it doesn't have to be at Barca oh I thought it was I thought sorry yeah yeah so no it would have to be at Barca. Oh, I thought it was. I thought it was at Barcelona.

Yeah. Yeah. So no, it would have to be that game at Anfield that we've discussed many times. Yeah. Okay. I mean, mine is not, I think I've only ever done two commentaries on them. I think I've done a Tottenham game there

and a Manchester United game there in the Europa League recently. My favourite memory of watching them though, and I wasn't in a fit state to commentate, was on my stag do in April 2006. My brother got us tickets to El Clasico. Barcelona had already won the league by a country mile. So there was nothing on the game. And honestly, it was like watching an exhibition because we were way up in the gods. You know, we, I mean, they were expensive tickets, but we were still right up in the top row join the club in with the barcelona fans uh see dan was playing beckham was playing ronaldo

ronaldinho henrik larson samueletto it was an absolute who's who the game finished 1-1 but what i remember is roberto carlos got sent off conceded a penalty i think got a yellow card for that and then argued with the referee about something else and got sent off conceded a penalty i think got a yellow card for that and then argued with the referee about something else and got sent off but such was the sort of atmosphere around the game that as he went off the pitch he was doing keepy ups with the match ball and ronaldinho was giving him a hug and it just didn't seem to me like the match mattered at all i was thinking this is one of the biggest games in world football and it's it's like an exhibition game so that that's that's my memory uh i was not covering barcelona uh but watching barcelona reminder again you can listen to the euro

league's podcast with john bennett and james horncastle uh right now on bbc sounds right it's that time again uh last time i came up against john in clash of the commentators it was nothing short of an absolute disaster. I'm up against John again today. Ian? Well, I'm going to give you a choice because, well, first of all, last time out, I got my first win of the season. So that's one from four. John, therefore, lost his 100% winning record. That's gone. Ali, as you say, you're looking to bounce back after losing to John in what was the Asian capital city's capitulation. I've added the capitulation to the script there.

Anyway, so the scores, Ali, you're two from three. John, you're two from three. And I'm one from four. So we all know the drill by now. 30-second stop clock. Give as many correct answers as you can within those 30 seconds. But before we get into it, we've had an email from a good friend and author, Nigel Tassel, who wrote The Bottom Corner, Hope and Glory, and Non-League Football. I think we feature in some of those books at

various stages. Anyway, he's been in touch and has asked for a Clash of the Commentators quiz on non-league sides who have knocked out league opposition over the years. So with that in mind, we now have a choice of quizzes this week. We could go with the non-league side related one, or we could go with an FA Cup final related one. Ooh. John, what do you fancy? What do you prefer? Strictly speaking, we should do the non-league ones, but...

Yeah. I'll be honest with you. The editor thinks the non-league one is too hard. Doesn't it all be good enough? Non-league teams. When I first read it, I went I got three immediately yeah and then I thought

oh that is tricky but I actually think it might provide a greater test of your knowledge okay I'll go first come on

I'll go first John you disconnect this sounds like it's going to be an absolute shambles to me yeah also but he's got the ability now to, he needs to turn away.

What, you think he can lip read? I think he can lip read. No. It will be all right, don't know. Okay. I'm going to lose anyway. Okay. So, this is option one.

This is tough. Okay. Since the 1925-26 season, only 11 non-league clubs have made it to the fifth round of the FA Cup. Fifth round? With one club reaching the quarterfinals. Yeah. So you're either looking for teams who've reached the fifth round or the quarterfinals.

Let's start that clock. Blimey. Well, Lincoln City are the one who made the quarterfinals. They beat Ipswich in the Cup that season. Maidstone would be one, because that was last season. Beat Ipswich again. Clubs of... Oh, Maidstone were the first from the sixth tier since.

Blythe Spartans did it in the 70s. That would be one. Yeovil, famous FA Cup giant killers. Did Sutton do it? Sutton United? I've got to say, I think you've done very well there. I reckon you've got, I think you've got five. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, you've got five. Very, very good. Quite pleased with that, Denno. Quite pleased. Okay. Right, we'll give the thumbs up for uh for john to reconnect yeah i'm back you're back right okay john since the 1925 i'm not going to tell you how many alleys

got this is tough tough but since the 19 ramping up the pressure a bit of gamesmanship there since the 1925 26 season john only 11 non-league clubs have made it to the fifth round of the fa cup with one of them reaching the quarterfinals you've got 30 seconds okay uh lincoln city um much of i think walking crawley blithe spartans yuleville uh sutton uh Walking, Crawley, Blythe, Spartans, Yeovil, Sutton, Kidderminster, did I say Walking? I'm going to say Walking again. It's tight. That's really good, John.

You said Woking, but Woking does not appear on the list. Well, Ali got five. I was quite pleased with five, John. I think you pipped him with six. Oh, come on. But whilst we wait for confirmation of that, for the listener, I'll give you all 11. Colchester United, 47-48.

Obviously. Yeovil, 48-49. Blythe Spartans, which both said Telford 84-85 I think they lost to Everton I think that year Kidderman Sir Harry as that John said he also said Crawley Luton Town in 2012-13 Lincoln City a few years later

Sutton United Boreham Wood and Maidstone United so Ali you've got five five Sutton United, Boreham Wood and Maidstone United. Yeah. Of course, Maidstone. So you've got five. Five. And I've got a feeling that John just pipped you with six, but I'm just waiting for the word in my ear.

And that is confirmation. No VAR required. John, congratulations. You won 6-5. I got three more correct answers on non-league teams that have got as far as the fifth round of the FA Cup. Three more answers than I did on Asian capitals. In the continent of Asia.

That's terrible. That's terrible. Right, we'll finish up with the great glossary of football commentary today. We're building a collection of football terms related to football commentary. There's quite a few suggestions. People are really enjoying this feature, so I'm just going to rattle through some emails here that have come into tcv at bbc.co.uk terry and bromley hi gents loving the pod uh one word i'd like to suggest for the glossary is adjudged it's often used uh like this he was a

judge to be offside he was a judge to have handled the ball but it's rarely heard outside of the game i do have a second one educated although it regularly crops up in everyday language its use in a football context always baffles me in that a player is often referred to as having an educated left foot does it mean that foot has a university degree also in these days of equality why doesn't a right foot ever get the same accolade no it would never get the same accolade and a judged is also used isn't it for lbw yes it is it is so actually that means that can't go in our glossary because we're looking for football specific aren't we oh well can it i think i'm sure it can can it yeah

no i think i think it's got to be i agree with ali i think i think a judge doesn't make it okay well let's put educated in then okay and just on on the left foot right foot thing julian in bristol says i'd like to offer wand of a left foot as a submission for your glossary but the left is key says julian a commentator is no more likely to remark on a wand of a right foot than they are to insist that managers will be discussing that over a bottle of white wine after the game. It's never white wine. That's a really good point. That's a great point.

It's always right. That's a great point. That's a really good point. You're better placed than me to know why. But it's true, isn't it? And that's one I'd like to cricket. I'm definitely going to use that. That's one I'd like to cricket, isn't it?

You know the left-right thing? Yes. You know David Gower. They're always more elegant and more stylish. The the elegant left-hander yeah exactly we never i mean i've got to say i was an elegant left-hander at cricket were you i've never seen you do anything elegantly okay that is harsh is it true uh jamie uh Jamie, who's a Gillingham fan but living in Rotherham, says, formally of this parish, when talking about a player or manager returning to a former club,

something that is often said in football commentary, but very rarely in other walks of life. What do we think about formally of this parish? I've heard the big man use that. Have you? I associate that with John Champion. Do you? Yes. associate that with john champion do you yes yeah you know as soon as you said that and it's john who immediately came to mind what about a vicar coming back to work at somewhere they've worked before would they be formally of this parish hadn't this wasn't

john's dad or was that eleanor eleanor eleanor Bad wizard. Now, here's one for you. There used to be a reporter for Radio York called Rob Marshall, who was a reverend. Oh. The rocking reverend, Rob Marshall. Yeah. And he once took me to an FA Cup tie at Scarborough, and I think they might have been playing Notts County back in the day. i'm going back a long long time now that's nice knots county that links to our next one from andrew whittaker i think the term sleeping giants should be included in the great glossary of football commentary i can't think of it being

used in any other context and the fa cup third round is traditionally time for it to be wheeled out sleeping giants are we're having that in the glossary yeah that's definitely got to go in okay so andrew says as a matter of interest i've supported notts county for over 50 years who to be fair are more likely to be considered comatose rather than sleeping but at least we are finally heading back in the right direction both on and off the pitch after some difficult times i've never for one second in those 50 plus years considered supporting anyone else though even during the four years spent in the National League. It leads me to another issue. I really enjoy the pods but they're almost exclusively Premier League focused. It would be interesting

to hear when you last commentated at grounds such as Meadow Lane or such other clubs. There's a lot of good football and proper clubs in the lower reaches. I'm sure the occasional shout out would be appreciated by a number of your listeners. Go on, Denno. I did an FA Cup tie there seven years ago now. And I remember it vividly because it was sadly just days after Jimmy Armfield had passed away. And we did a tribute to Jimmy, the great Jimmy Armfield from Meadow Lane on Football Focus with chris waddle so that would have been 20 2018 and that was our featured game in the fa cup that weekend and you know that is the beauty one of the things that is so good with the fa cup for us is that it does take you to different places you know and you very often get to those those grounds that you don't

get to all of the time so that makes it different for us as well, I would say. My first ever professional commentary was done at Meadow Lane. I did Notts County 1, Bristol Rovers 1 in the late 90s. And one of my favourite ever games I ever commentated on was a 4-all draw between Bristol City and Notts County at Meadow Lane. Mickey Bell scored an absolute screamer to put Bristol City 4-3 up. They got pegged back to 4-4. And doing the notes for Bristol City, Sam Bell, Mickey Bell's lad, now plays for Bristol City.

And the other thing is, with the FA Cup, the last couple of seasons, as you two know, because I've not worked on the saturday the first saturday of the fa cup sort of in the extra preliminary round so in the last couple of seasons i've actually gone to grounds that i've never been to before to watch the fa cup right at the start which is quite you know it's quite nice to be there right at the start and then right at the end when it comes to the final so this season i went to Tadcaster Albion right at the start of the FA Cup just on the glossary to tidy this up today just what's in and what's out by the way did you use skirting board I did did you use it yep well done what game was that in I'll go back and listen again

Glenn Murray is absolutely right Martin Odegaard very much likes the look of this. Newcastle have put up a big wall. They've also got the man lying down behind it that we've been discussing on the

Commentator's View podcast should probably be called the skirting board as opposed to the draft excluder. But anyway... It was Tuesday

at Arsenal. Arsenal-Newcastle. Okay. So is educated going in in terms of describing a player's left foot? I think yes, because Ian rejected the other suggestion. And wand of a left foot. Wand as well, are we having that in there? But left not right, and red wine not white wine.

Go ahead in the glossary. In honour of Tony Pulis, the red wine. Tony loves a glass of red. Formally of this parish, going in? Yeah, I like that, glass of red formerly of this parish going in yeah i like that yeah okay and sleeping giants going yes okay lovely uh we're just about i had another question by the way as well which is which is one that's worth throwing out there because i know that listeners like this sort of thing yeah in our commentator colleague john roder got in touch and said that he always discusses about what the

collective noun should be for a group of commentators that's good so we can put that out to people who want to suggest on tcv at bbc.co.uk two more things very quickly Chris Sutton on the fantasy 606 podcast what wanted your expert opinion guys this one's pronunciation uh related is it Savio or is it Savinio that plays for Manchester City I've seen both I've read both I've heard both what who who is he do you know it is both it is both but Chris won't have that though but I think the I'm trying to remember at the start of the season this is well i whatever whoever i got this from i can't remember but it was suggested to go savinio rather than savio savinio but when he was it when he was at gerona he was savio oh right okay but

i do go savinio savinio okay and i've got a as well, and I forgot to set it for our EuroLeagues team, and I just want your backing on this one, guys, because this has been an FA Cup episode, and everyone talks always about the FA Cup being the greatest domestic football cup competition in the world. They watch it all around the world, you know. They watch it all around the world. In Europe, away from the FA Cup,

which is the greatest domestic cup competition? Where does it matter the most? Is it the greatest domestic cup competition where does it matter the most is it Spain is it France is it Portugal is it Turkey are we asking them that

we're asking them yeah that's a good question thank you John yeah really good question okay last question for you you're never going to get this in a million years

unless you've read the script do you know who's on the next episode of the Football Daily In Focus so you know last week john you were saying amazing guests on that in focus pod you will never ever yeah i've read the script yeah that's a shame that's a shame tamworth's tom tonks and salford city's curtis tilt

it's with some excitement that i'm looking forward to commentating on Tommy Tonks. Since I've known I'm going to be covering this match, I've been hoping against hope that he doesn't get injured. So I hope he's all right. Is he the one with the long throw? The long throw. He effectively threw it into the net.

Yeah. Do you remember? I remember Dave Chaloner when Newcastle played Tramier in 98. Dave Chaloner could throw the ball in from the halfway line. He had a very long throw, the stopport manager. That is a name, though. That is an FA Cup commentator's, headline writer's dream, isn't it?

Tommy Tonks. So, yeah, the next episode of the Football Daily is an In Focus with Tamworth's Tom Tonks and Salford City's Curtis Tilt. Enjoy your FA Cup football over the weekend. I'm sure we'll have plenty of stories from it in the next episode of the Commentator's View. My thanks to Ian and John. We'll be back next week and thank you very much for listening. I told you what my dad said to me, didn't I, John? No. Did I not tell you when I saw him on Christmas Day?

Yeah, you did. He's listening to the commentator's view. And the first thing he said to me, he didn't even say, Happy Christmas. He went, I'm really disappointed that you only got two. Good. Well, I was disappointed in you. I know.

I was as well, John. I had a good... I was disappointed in myself, actually. He can't say that. I was disappointed that I didn't get more. Attention, please. Oh, hang on. This is an emergency.

Oh. Please leave the building by the nearest available exit. By the way, you know at the very end of the pod, you should have left. Attention, please. At the very end of the pod. Yeah. Nathan always puts in a little, if this isn't in at the very end of the pod yeah nathan always puts in a little an easter egg this is if this isn't in at the very end yeah well you should be still recording i've got gone i've got to go but

the first thing the last thing i'm going to say is and i meant to say right at the top of the pod anyone who's watched this on social media attention please i'm in such an odd little cupboard here at radio merseyside where i've not got any sort of proper lighting so there's a big red light above my head and a blue light so we've got a sort of bit of Liverpool red and Everton blue. I feel like I'm in an underground bunker ahead of a national emergency. I've gone to DEFCON 2 here

or I could be in the hunt for Red October here. That's what it feels like. You know what you should actually believe. No, I'm going now. I'm going. See you later. Cheers, thank you. Take care. Have a good weekend. We might never see him again.