Football Daily - The Commentator’s View: Ian’s floppy disk & ‘Kevin Dalglish’

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

John Murray and Ian Dennis join Alistair Bruce-Ball to lift the lid on life as 5 Live commentators. From Ian’s floppy disk of research to pre-interview smalltalk with Steven Gerrard, they reveal stories you don’t normally get to hear. And as it’s an Ali Bruce-Ball podcast, of course there’s some fun and games as well.02:00 No rest for the commentator! 06:05 Ian’s floppy disk 09:05 Encounters with new Man Utd boss Ruben Amorim 13:50 ‘Kevin Dalglish’ 15:20 Pre-interview smalltalk 18:10 The ‘Wheel of Spiel’ 24:30 Difficulties of commentating on Man City 29:30 Ian Holloway’s spooky interview 31:30 ‘Clash of the commentators’ quiz 36:10 What’s it like commentating at 3pm on Saturday? 39:30 The Great Dictionary of Football CommentaryBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this weekend: Arsenal v Nottingham Forest – Premier League – 15:00 – Saturday 23 November Man City v Tottenham – Premier League – 17:30 – Saturday 23 November Southampton v Liverpool – Premier League – 14:00 – Sunday 24 November Ipswich v Man Utd – Premier League – 16:30 – Sunday 24 November

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello everyone, I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and welcome to a brand new podcast on the Football Daily Feed called The Commentator's View. Now like all good podcasts, the title tells you exactly what you're going to get. It's a look at all the football we cover on five live sports extra and bbc sounds but through the eyes of the commentators namely myself john murray and ian dennis who i will introduce shortly we hope to be able to give you a little insight into what our working weeks are like what we see and hear

on our travels and of, we're very happy to answer any of your questions as well. For now, I'm told we're going to ask you to send those to the Fantasy 606 email address, which is a different pod I work on, you may be aware of. The email address is fantasy606 at bbc.co.uk. I'm told that's because we've been too lazy to set up a new email address but hopefully if we have some success with this podcast then we will get our own email address but whatever you do please don't send any fantasy football questions to john murray and actually chaps i've just looked at it i think between us sort of cumulative years of commentating on

football on the bbc and and probably actually on this network, on Five Live, we'd be over 60 years. I mean, I've no idea how many games that is. That would be thousands and thousands of games of football. That'll get the young listeners flocking in then. Well, hopefully we're still current, Ian. Well, I know me and you are, ABB.

I'm not too sure about the more elder statesmen of the trio. Are you going to suggest I've got 55 of those years? Credit to you, John. You're actually on holiday this week, which just does tell our listeners, I think, how keen you are that this project gets off the ground and succeeds. Yes, this is what's known in the real world as a week off. So, John, when you are on holiday holiday how much of our output do you actually listen to well i think you two will very much know where i'm coming from here in that i i feel that

the only time you can actually completely switch off from this is when you're actually at the end of the season and so therefore i think when you do take a week off during the season well i mean here i am living evidence of the fact that you can't get away from it. You know, you do have to keep an eye on. So I know what my matches are going to be when I'm back at work. But I definitely do feel at the end of the season, as though a bit of a weight has been lifted from the shoulders when you actually can just switch off completely.

Does that ring a bell with you two? Well, one thing I know with you two that you two do that I actually don't, and I've certainly seen your Bible, John, but I think I'm right in saying, Denno, you've got one as well. A hardback book that you carry around all season. You get a new one every season. You write every squad down in there, every starting lineup, all subs go in there every result certainly for the premier

league i don't know about the rest of it i mean just just to keep up with that that that is half a day's work in itself isn't it you're right i carry around this season's as well as last seasons because it's sometimes just as a point of reference you can then go back and and look at a corresponding fixture so i also keep a a hard book of eng England stats as well which actually last time out when I went to when I was covering England in October I foolishly left it behind at home and I needed to refer to it and therefore I had to phone home to get my son to get me screen grabs of of the last seven pages so so that that England book goes back to 2009. But you're right, I'm currently on book 27 of every Premier League squad in every game.

Whereas mine are loose leaf as opposed to hardback. So that means that I can take just the two teams that I'm covering at any given time. And a large part of the reason for that, I want to remember going on, this is way way back my early days and john champion uh was on that trip and john similar to ian had a hardback book and it went missing and i i think he got it back but he was absolutely bereft in the time that he

thought he'd lost this because you know we know how much work there is that goes into that and also how important i feel it's absolutely crucial when i'm preparing for a match to be able to to go to that and you know yes it is all available on the internet you can find it all however the way the way that i do it i'm sure you're the same i know i've got everything i want where I need it and you can have that with you in a ground where sometimes wi-fi isn't reliable but if you need that information it's there but I'm petrified that if I did it in your style Ian that I would lose it well I could easily lose it I probably will one day but the only thing is on a Saturday three

o'clock and it happened early this season and it might have been even Nielsen scored his what I thought was his first goal for Bournemouth and I was able to flick open flick through the pages and then get confirmation and say I think you'll find that was his first goal even though I wasn't necessarily covering Bournemouth on that particular day so it was it was still the information was still very much quickly to hand and I think I think the lovely thing about doing it the way you two do it is that even though you're initially getting those stats from somewhere else, because you've done the work and written them down, you trust them 100%.

Unless I've made the mistake and therefore my information then is slightly off. Which can happen. Which can happen. But then we've got summarizers who'll kindly remind you of that yeah but some all it all it needs is a wrong x in the wrong column and then all of a sudden a certain player has got 299 appearances instead of the 300 that i thought he'd got but generally i think we do tend to trust our own work. Yes. Would be the answer to that. I then back that up then onto floppy disk. I generally do.

I've still got a floppy disk. I've got a new computer, and I had to get an adapter for the floppy disk. I can't believe you've still got it. No. Yeah, I have. And when that dies, when that machine dies, it's not going to be backed up, is it?

Because you're not going to be able to find a replacement. Well, I can know where John Champion's coming from from when he was bereft because a few years ago ahead of a new season my floppy disk didn't work just didn't load and i'd lost six teams stats i had to start all over again so what i've done since is that i've now got one of these and i back it up on on two people won't be able to see that you a usb stick yes that's it usb sticks a paris saint-germain usb stick no less okay very good if anyone's tuned in for this wondering what commentators were going to talk about and thought it might be a little bit geeky then they've got

exactly that in the first five minutes it's inside what we are going to do what we are going to do and actually i i don't think we could have picked a better week to record our first commentators view i think we could we could have picked one where i was actually at work it might have been on time by that is the fixtures that we have got so the four premier League commentaries we have got for our listeners across the network this weekend are all four absolute crackers. And we're going to have a little look at, you know, talk around them. We're not going to do straight previews of them, but, you know, talk about them a little bit.

So first up, Saturday, three o'clock, Ian's going to be at this one at the Emirates Stadium. This is Arsenal against Nottingham Forest. Saturday at 5.30 on Five Live, Manchester City against Tottenham. Manchester City, of course, on this run of four straight defeats. The leaders, Liverpool, we've got full commentary on them. Sunday, two o'clock at Southampton. And then Ruben Amorim starts life as Manchester United boss at Portman Road on Sunday at half four.

And we've got commentary on that one. Let's start there. Let's start with the last one. Because when a Manchester United manager, a new Manchester United manager comes in, that is big, big news in the world of football. And I'm actually finding, so I'm commentating on that game on Sunday, that there is so much content about that and about him. You can actually get lost in tons and tons of material and almost do too much reading. And what I'm really looking forward to doing and what our job is on the Sunday is once all the talking is done and he walks out down the side of the pitch at Ipswich for the very first time he's actually watching him and describing him and seeing how he behaves and then listening to him after the game and I think

that's one of the great joys we have as radio commentators so yes we obviously have to get involved in all that chat around it but actually I'm really looking forward to the to the football to how his team plays and how he behaves have either of you two come across him yet? Have you commentated on sporting when Amarim's been in charge? Yeah, I did a Champions League tie about two years ago, and I know they recently beat Manchester City, but on that particular night, it was the last 16 game in Lisbon,

Manchester City put five past sporting, and they absolutely ran riot. But he speaks very well well doesn't he? I remember at the time him being talked of as this young rising manager with a big reputation and in actual fact it was such a comfortable night for Manchester City that that was rather you know it was all very much put in the shade and and they sort of disappeared off to Portugal without having made a great impact. Visually just just what he looks like, just for a radio commentator, there's a bit to go at, I think, isn't there? Do you think so?

Yeah, a little bit, isn't there? I mean, the beard? I think he looks like a lot of people these days, don't you? Right. I don't think he does look particularly distinctive. Distinctive. OK, maybe not. Ali, have you unearthed any sort of have you started your prep for that i mean has he got a decent track record when it comes to his first game in charge that is a good question i've not actually got that far i'm actually leaving him until last

in terms of the prep so i'm actually doing the sort of easy a bit first in terms of the teams that i know pretty well and kind of refreshing my notes on that but i think and it's going to be a lot about like i say digging through reams and reams of material and just finding those sort of salient two or three lines maybe one like that about his his performance you know in first games in church the one thing i was actually looking at ahead of chatting to you guys was managerial debuts in the premier league or us coming across managers for the very first time so for example this season arna slot actually funny enough started at portman road just like amarim's going to start portman road and liverpool won that game 2-0 uh i look back at pep guardiola's

first game in charge i don't know if either of you remember that no i don't think i do not particularly memorable they beat sunderland 2-1 through a Paddy McNair own goal. Do you remember what happened in Eric Ten Hag's first match? I looked it up. Yeah. I looked it up. And his second match. The second was worse, wasn't it? They lost 4-0 at Brentford in the second one.

Yeah. Lost at home to Brighton in the first one. You know, I remember, you know, do you remember the optimism for Eric Ten Hag was quite high, wasn't it? You know, people might forget that because of everything that happened and the way that the exit has occurred this season. But there was quite high optimism

when Eric Ten Hag was starting out. I remember once doing a game in the Premier League where two managers were making their debuts in the Premier League. Spurs against Liverpool, Jacques Santini against Rafa Benitez at White Hart Lane. Now, talking about managerial

debuts and arrivals, it wasn't Santini, was it? It was Christian Gross. I think a lot of people remember him waving the tube ticket at the Tottenham manager. Do you remember that, in terms of making an impact? That didn't go particularly well for him, with the fact that he'd arrived on public transport. Sir Alex Ferguson, do you remember his first game in charge of Manchester United all those years ago? I had to look that't go particularly well for him with the fact that he'd arrived on public transport. Sir Alex Ferguson, do you remember his first game

in charge of Manchester United all those years ago? I had to look that one up as well. Is that Oxford United? Correct. Good knowledge. And they lost by two goals to nil, Manchester United. So I actually think, I mean, I think Ipswich will, Ipswich are obviously coming into it

off the back of having just won at Tottenham. And Portman Road has been absolutely bouncing for every home game so far this season I think it'll be quite a test for Manchester United actually but he's now taking over a team that have got a little bit of confidence it's not as if he's taking over immediately after what was Ten Hag's last match to the defeat at West Ham you know and Rude van Nistelrooy, admittedly, they've played the four games at home, but they aren't quite where they were when Eric Ten Hag played out his final act. So there's a little bit of something there. The most significant aspect for me is from a tactical point of view, because he's obviously, when he was at Sporting, he's favoured three at the back. Does he now implement that type of football at Manchester United or does he stick to what the

players as John has been saying is picked up under Ruud van Nistelrooy does he does he keep with that system so that'll be very interesting for me and also you know you'll be able to get an idea if the team sheet comes through and it's not immediately obvious what he's going to do you know you've got a bit of a chance there haven't you in the warm-up to see what they do, where I would imagine they all certainly indicate how they're going to play. And also, you know, will he be there? Like, that was one of the things with Lee Carsley that surprised us, wasn't it, Ian, when we were in Dublin for his first match. That suddenly the first person that we saw come out onto the field, way ahead of the warm-up, was Lee Carsley himself. Which he continued to do with the bag of balls and putting the

cones down, which was a very, very unusual approach. Ian, am I right in saying you've got a Kenny Dalgleish tale to tell? Yeah. So Kenny Dalgleish was, still is, one of my all-time heroes. I absolutely adored him as a player. And in January 97, I'm working at Radio Newcastle I've only been in that position probably what seven months I've been in charge so Kevin Keegan has resigned in in the January of 97 Kenny Dalgleish takes over and after his press conference at St James's Park he gathers all the journalists he's looking at is how he's going to address everybody and tells them this is the way he works. This is the way he operates. And then he breaks out into an opportunity just to sort of like say hello to him. And to my horror, and I didn't

realize I'd said it at the time, but his response was, no, I'm Kenny. And I'd actually said to him, hello, Kevin, I'm Ian Dennis from Radio Newcastle. And he said, no, I'm Kenny. And I just thought, oh, and I wanted the ground just to swallow me up because I've just got completely off on the wrong foot. And I was just so embarrassed that I'd made such a gaffe as a first impression. I was mortified.

Kevin Dowdley. Thank you. I don't know about you ali i think it's when you meet these people particularly when we were younger it's quite daunting isn't it because at the end of the day we're all football fans and we've all idolized these people yeah the one i i always find tricky is when you're down in a tunnel and you're about to do an interview and the player arrives but then you might have a minute or a minute and a half to kill before the interview starts. So the natural thing to do as an ordinary human being, which I would do down the pub or, you know, in the park or whatever, is start a conversation about something or other. But with these people, what do you talk about?

Because if you talk about football, you're about to do that anyway in the interview but if you go you know what's your favorite movie what did you see at the movies like they're just you know i i just don't know what to do with that time i find that very difficult ian's very good at that actually you're quite good aren't you in a disarming them back in the day with england it always used to be the manager and the captain who who would speak on minus match day one, the day before a game. Match day minus one. Yes, that's what I said. Did I not say that? You said minus match day one. Okay, well, match day minus one. Yes, the continental way, John. Yeah, it is. Sorry, I forgot. He's such a master of foreign languages that it just happens

automatically. Yeah. So, but it was always the manager and the captain and I would always speak to the captain. So I used to speak to Steven Gerrard on a regular basis and he pitched up for the interview and we were talking for about 15, 20 minutes about all sorts, the football, holidays, how he is. He asked me how I was. And then I said, oh, we're going to go in here to do the interview he actually said we could have done the interview by now but we were just happily just chatting away and he was so relaxed and in the end i probably spent close on three quarters

of an hour with him because of the time that we're with a preamble and then the actual interview himself yeah but that helps doesn't it and that definitely helps with the interview that you then do i think if you're able to do that i have to say you know obviously don't want to pat each other on the back you know doing this podcast but your your interview with harry kane that you did ahead of the republic of ireland game that that it rang out to me across the radio when i listened to it there is someone who trusts you who you've interviewed plenty of times that you could ask direct questions he's now a lot more comfortable in giving direct answers but you can tell that that relationship has built up over a period of time where were that not you asking the questions and someone harry k maybe didn't know you might not get the same responses but i think that is

a the beauty of radio that when you've got somebody one-on-one it it's the intimacy of the medium, if you like. But also, you're right, it's like when John speaks to, you know, John would have asked Gareth Southgate a few difficult questions during his time. And there's a level of respect there because that individual knows that you've been covering England for a period of time.

Whereas if you go speak to, you know, a manager in the Premier League who hasn't seen you before straight away, that they're a little bit more guarded. Right. Champs, we're going to take a little break. And as you well know with me,

that I don't feel any, any show or any podcast is really complete without a game or a quiz or, or something fun to chuck in along the way. So we've had a couple of ideas. The first of which our working title at the moment and i stress working title is the wheel of spiel what we're going to do is test our commentary skills as as three commentators who've done a fair bit of this so one of us each week is going to have to describe a bit of footage that we're sent on our phone

and you're going to have to do a radio commentary on it and the other two are going to have to try and work out what you're describing and our listeners can play along at the same time the reason we're calling it the wheel of spiel is because the wheel element is like the wheel of fortune so a wheel is going to appear and then randomly one of our names will pop up and it will be our turn that week to do this scribing so if this works correctly i think on our screen shortly we are going to see the actual wheel of spiel let's test out the production team here see if this works oh there it is it's a period so if i'm going to use my commentary skills oh there it's turning it's got our names in bright colors blue red green i'm in green at the moment the arrow is pointing john that's right in the middle just before you start john

so do do you have the aforementioned footage check your email he doesn't he doesn't read his emails i'm on i'm on holiday he's on holiday but even when you're not on holiday, you don't read your emails. Yes, I do. Right now, John, just before you click on the link and see the images, we're just going to play this little clip to set it up. So this is going to help the listeners and us have a little clue as to what might be coming. So have a listen to this. The gap's about six inches inches between the two so there is just room. The gap is about six inches between the two so there's just room. And the other bit of information I'm going to give you and this is all you'll need is the person that you will see on your screen is called Nick Brett and he's representing

England. Okay. That's all you're getting and as soon as you click that link you've got to start describing okay the gap's about six inches between the two so there is just room well unless i'm very much mistaken this looks to me like nick brett of england and he's leaning forward he has got the projectile in his right hand and he has rolled the projectile across the floor and it's arriving now it's rolled by on the right hand side of various other projectiles and it's landed in between two of them and touched the smallest of the projectiles rolled into it and pushed it against another one that is exactly the same as the one that he played in the first place that that is brilliantly done and we will get ian dennis's guess after this little break

the football daily podcast on bbc sounds weekend mornings Ian Dennis's guess after this little break. So Ian, do you have any idea The Commentator's View on the Football Daily Podcast. BBC Radio 5 Live. So, Ian, do you have any idea what John is describing and who Nick Brett might be? Well, he's got to be at Lawn Bowls. Yes! Yes. Bit of crown green bowling. Nick Brett of England competing in the Open Pairs Final

at Great Yarmouth in the World Indoor Bowls Championships and this is how that actually sounded when it was commentated on at the time the gap's about six inches between the two bowls so there is just room the way Greg asked him to play that you'd think he was three feet away from it. Call it these guys, you wouldn't expect him to miss either, to be honest. Well, he's very close to splitting the two red balls and getting to the jack. That's what the target is. Oh, look at this.

Oh, that is ridiculous. That is just so good. It is ridiculous. What a ball. That though, John, as you were describing, was an incredible judgment of delivery, wasn't it? The sort of curvature that that ball took to land where it did. It was an excellent play, as I think they probably say in balls, do they? You and I once went to the balls, didn't we?

Yeah. The Commonwealth Games with Roddy Forsyth. With Roddy with roddy forsyth so we have got experience of it that that is the first wheel of spiel uh john's commentary skills so good that denno uh hit it on the head first time we hope you got it right at home too i was disappointed i didn't spot great yarmouth so the idea is ali that in coming weeks if we stay on we are suggesting to people that they... Yeah, they can send us footage, John. Yeah, exactly. I mean, send us anything. It's anything for us to describe.

So we've got to describe it as if we're doing a radio commentary. So it doesn't necessarily have to be sport then? No. No, it could be anything. You could be putting up shelves at home. When you say send anything, there's got to clearly be something.

I think you're going along lines of levels of decency, aren't you, Ian? I am, yes. I try and uphold those standards. That's quite smutty. Smutty-minded of you. So that's the Wheel of Spiel. Hopefully that is going to continue.

A couple more games on the way. But let's move it back to the football chat for now. So we've been talking about our weekend commentaries coming your way on Five Live and BBC Sounds this weekend. Saturday, 5.30. There are so many different ways we can look at this one uh chaps manchester city at home to tottenham so manchester city in a right old funk in a sort of run of form that that we've never seen actually under pep guardiola yet he's well mean, I was going to say has doubled down in his rhetoric, not just that, he's now extended his contract, so seems very, very keen on trying to dig them out of this

sticky little spot, up against a Tottenham team who, you know, lost last time at home to Ipswich, but have a very good record against Manchester City. I think that promises to be a really, really entertaining commentary. just check my aforementioned red book and in fact Manchester City's little bump in the road whether it's more of a bump I'm not too sure now but the first of the four successive defeats was actually at Tottenham in the League Cup on the 30th of October however yeah Pep Guardiola made six changes for that game. So although Tottenham ran out two on winners, Manchester City will be, you would think,

a little bit more stronger this time around. Just on Pep Guardiola, so year extension is going to mean 10 years at Manchester City. And I'm not sure we necessarily saw that coming when he first came in. How have you found your dealings with him? And I don't just mean talking to him post-match but in terms of commentating on him and and his teams during this premier league era some of the players that have arrived at manchester city under pep guardiola and the way that they've developed under him he's provided it with i think a whole collection not just one or two,

of the best players I've ever commentated on and seen in the Premier League. And, you know, that cannot be a coincidence. I think I've heard you say this before, John. I can't remember whether we've had this conversation privately or publicly, but that often he is actually better to interview when they've lost rather than when they've won. I'm sure you've said that to me before.

Yeah, well, they'll have a glorious victory and play wonderful football. And he can be monosyllabic. I think he can go both ways. Right. For example, before the match at Brighton, on the day before when he did his pre-match media, he was not in the mood for talking. And I thought he was at his most grumpy almost. And then they go to Brighton, lose,

and he was, I mean, he was so open, so, so open, you could say, after the match there and spoke at length. And you might have heard him on, when he was on, Andy Gillis interviewed him on 606. You almost couldn't shut him up. I think he's, I don't know about you, Alan, I think his teams

to commentate on are quite difficult. Yes, the football is very easy on the eye and it's very, very attractive. But whatever you do, probably it's because

when some of my games are at three o'clock and I don't want to miss a goal elsewhere. So when you're moving away from the actual main game as often as we do on a Saturday

afternoon, you run that risk of, and I hate it when it happens, but's it's one of the the perils of the job in some respects you don't want to miss the commentary of the main game but you just don't sense sometimes when a goal is because they keep the ball for so long and have these sustained spells of retaining possession they can create a goal out of nothing you You know, Guardiola can pass the ball out of defence or Edison can just dissect a team with one direct ball through the middle. They can score in a blink of an eye. And I always think that you need to really keep your concentration

when you're commentating on Manchester City, whereas with other teams, they're a little bit easier to predict when a goal is going to be scored. Even when they're in possession, inside their own half, in the central third, going from side to side, which isn't terribly interesting, I don't think, to commentate on and to make that sound. They can keep the ball 50, 60 passes. It can go nowhere, or it could turn into one of the best goals you've ever seen you don't want to be halfway through fact of the day when suddenly when suddenly manchester city string together score the pass of the season yeah one little pep guardiello experience i

remember a game where i was sort of um i asked the question then took two steps back was in his first season in charge so do you remember back, was in his first season in charge. So do you remember they finished fourth in his first season in charge, but because of who he was and the record he came with, everyone expected them to, I think pretty unrealistically, given the squad he had, sort of walk away with the title.

They didn't win anything, did they, in his first season? No, but they qualified for the Champions League. But obviously the question I had to ask him was whether he considered that a success or a failure. As I did it i did it i thought you know this is not going to go well so but i'm going to have to ask it and i will ask it and he he gave it fairly short shrift he said he was happy did he did he rub his head vigorously which he can do sometimes he rubbed my head vigorously by the way by the way talking uh talking of interviews with managers post-match, I don't know, I'm going to play you a little bit now.

I've not heard this audio. This is Ian Holloway. Have you heard this story? So on BBC Radio Wiltshire, obviously managing at Swindon at the moment, struggling with injuries, bad run of form for the team. But he had a rather bizarre explanation for what's been going on have a listen have a listen to this i'm going to try and cleanse

the training ground area because people are telling me it's haunted seriously there's a graveyard somewhere near honestly i'm not joking my My wife watches this bloke's on YouTube, Casper site, and he goes, it was built on a graveyard. Well, I think our training ground is very close to an ancient burial site. So I'm going to get my wife to come up and say sorry to all these people. I'm going to get my wife up with her sage.

And hopefully we'll have a bit more luck. You know what I mean? I've done the old Glastonbury stuff and the hail and welcome and all of that stuff. right great if you believe in it do i really i'm not sure but i'm gonna get it just to try just to help do you know i mean because there's some strange things happening really is really is strange he's a character when when i first cut my teeth as a local radio reporter that was with bbc radio bristol and he was the manager of Bristol Rovers. So I interviewed him twice a week and he wasn't quite as wacky then as he can be now.

But it was a brilliant experience, actually, for a young radio reporter, kind of in the skill of interviewing, because you just did not know what was coming and how you were going to have to react to it. I used to love working with him. really did he's great fun so that was ian holloway uh and just before that obviously we were talking pep guardiola uh and manchester city against tottenham which is our 5 30 commentary uh on saturday we'll have a little chat to ian in a second about the three o'clock on saturday which is arsenal against nottingham forest before we do that time for another one of our little features um quiz for you two i've not really got a a name for this one uh as yet working titles again on the spot which i hate or clash of the commentators which i don't really like either but it's a kind of head

to head quiz that i've that i've come up with it's it's a twist on sudden death it's sort of sudden deathy but not quite okay so is this gonna how is this going to um progress right then so i can i can sense the competitor in you there john so we are just overall leaderboard here so for this episode you two will go head-to-head it works like a penalty shootout so you're going to take it in turns to answer questions until someone basically gets one wrong and lo and behold we're going to have a winner i'm going to go with something based around the nation's league football just gone right so i think there was something like 50 games played in the men's nation's league over the last few days before we recorded this pod played at various different stadiums what i'm going to do is i'm going to read out a stadium

name to you when it's your turn you are going to tell me who the host country is okay okay so so for example if i said wembley you would say england if i said hamden park you would say scotland i'm not including the really easy ones but i'm going to start quite gently and we're going to start quite gently, and we're going to go like that. But you will have commentated at a lot of these stadiums. So let's see how we go. In the form of a sudden death penalty shootout, John, you are going to go first.

Okay. And when you get an answer correct, you'll hear a little ping. There we go. And if you get the answer wrong, you're going to get the buzzer. And just to add a little bit of drama, let's fire off the Nations League music to accompany this as well. Right, John, you are going to start in this very first game of whatever it's called. Okay. And I'm going to give you the Johan Cruyff Arena.

Amsterdam. Netherlands, correct. There we go. Denno, Estadio do Dragão. Portugal. Portugal. Correct. John, the Parken Arena.

Denmark. Very good. Denno, the Ernst Happel Stadion. Austria. These guys know their stuff. You're going to have to excuse some of the pronunciations here. John, the Stade Roi Baduin. Belgium.

That's good. That's good. Denno, the Stadio Olimpico di Servale. San Marino. This is good. I would not have done as well as this. John, the Ullevalstadion. Norway.

Denno had that as well. I've actually not been to that one. Norway is correct. You've had that as well. I've actually not been to that one. Norway is correct. You've not been? No. I've not been. Denno, the Helsingin Olympiastadion. I don't know what that could be.

That's what it says. He's been here. Finland. Correct. John, the Olympiakostadion Spiros-Louis. We were in it last week. Greased. Greased. Greased.

Then now, Estadio Heliodoro Rodriguez Lopez. Ooh, say that one again. Estadio Heliodoro Rodriguez Lopez. Ooh, now I'm stumped. I'm going to go Andorra. oh now i'm stumped i'm gonna go andora it's incorrect john do you know no i don't oh i mean i think the way i said it made it an absolute gimme i've never heard of it it's spain where is it oh it's in tenerife it's in tenerife that's why i went with andora because Estadio had the Spanish. Yeah.

Didn't you go to Tenerife on holiday last year? This year, actually. This year. But I didn't. I went in January. I went to Puerto de Santiago, nowhere near the Estadio.

Estadio Heliodoro Rodriguez Lopez. I was trying to do it in my best sort of... Tenerife's not that big, is it? Spanish. It's big enough. It's okay now there, John. I thought you'd have passed the stadium.

It's lovely. Okay, so John goes 1-0 up in Clash of the Commentators, or whatever we're going to call that. Right, just before we wrap it up, Ian, I said we were going to talk about saturday's three o'clock game which is arsenal uh against nottingham forest i just think i know i know we'll come back to this plenty during this podcast but if you can do this if you could try and put our

listeners into your seat on a saturday at three o'clock and just try and describe you're you're describing the game like we always describe a football game, but there's a heck of a lot more going on than that on the three o'clock on Saturday. Are you able to try and put into words what that's like to try and give people an idea of what you're trying to cope with? Well, yeah. I mean, anybody who's seen final score on a Saturday afternoon and sees the video printer, I essentially have got a computer screen either to my left or to my right, which is exactly the same feed as that.

So I get a list of all the goals as they go in. I've got a crib sheet to my left-hand side, which tells me where our featured reporters are around the country. And as well as commentating on the game, watching that screen, I've then got incessant talkback from the producer.

And that was just for Claire as well, the incessant, because when I once used that in a little seminar at the start of the season, it didn't go down too well that I described her talkback as incessant. I've also described sometimes the talkback as bellowing. But I do need firm instruction from Claire, who basically just keeps me on the straight and narrow. So you've got constant talkback.

And invariably, when I'm handing then say to you, if you're reporting at Portman Road, I don't hear what you're saying because I'm then getting my next instruction to go somewhere else. And it's not just the football either.

We've got the rugby, the horse racing, sometimes the golf. So that's just a brief description of what we've got to contend with on a Saturday afternoon. Particularly during that three o'clock on Saturday, as Ian says, the producer has got to be as sharp as the commentator, if not sharper, because you're dealing with all sorts of information

about goals going in and reporters buzzing you and saying, come to me here. And then you've got to give that information to the commentator in as concise a form as clear a form as possible short and sharp what's actually nice to do which we can do is and i will do probably a couple of times during a season when it works out is to actually be in there on a saturday afternoon say you know when we get to a certain point in the season in the studio you mean yeah if i've maybe been to the early match or if fa cup weekend of course as well when we'll be doing commentaries all day long sometimes if

it's a big story and it's in the region of the studios they'll say can you come in for five o'clock for sports report and you'll go in there but it's actually it's a bit of an education and a reminder because we've all done it haven't we we've all worked we've all done most of the jobs that there are to do in radio i would say um and when when you're able to go in it is a reminder of just exactly what there is down the other end of the line and the other thing to say then am i right saying pat nevin's with you on saturday for us he is yes yeah so the so the role the summarizer plays i think that's a really difficult job on a Saturday as well because you might not speak for 15 minutes.

I think that's the reason why Chris Sutton tends to enjoy working on a Saturday so he doesn't have to speak. It's just an easy gig for him. But Pat gets it. Obviously Pat's well versed in football presentation and so Pat will get the instruction. He'll either be concise in his reply

or he'll team you up by saying we might now be going off to venue X or whatever. So Pat will get the instruction. He'll either be concise in his reply or he'll team you up by saying, we might now be going off to venue X or whatever. So Pat is very good to work with in that respect. So that's Ian's doing Arsenal against Nottingham Forest alongside Pat Nevin, Saturday at three o'clock. One last feature. We're going to try and build a commentator's dictionary, which you suggested. So for example, so so again we're going to

get our listeners i think hopefully to contribute here so suggest things to us that they believe should go in the commentators dictionary depending on what games we're doing so for me doing ipswich manchester united you have one don't you for me this week that you think is apt and these could be phrases for people who want to get involved in this this could be phrases that apply to any of the matches that we might be commentating on on a given weekend or could be just a general commentating phrase something that that you think should be in the great dictionary of football commentary but i think this weekend when that is one of the matches that will receive great attention i think you probably have

to focus on the manchester united manager having his first game in the post or head coach as he is and i think the phrase that will very much come into play will be the honeymoon period yeah i i mean i i'm probably bound to mention that anyway, whichever way it goes. But I guess during the season on this podcast, what we'll do is get suggestions for the dictionary. And then I guess as a panel, we'll decide whether they belong in the dictionary or not. And I quite like words and phrases that you would only ever hear in football commentary. So people don't use them, know in normal everyday life and one that comes to mind i always think is languishing people never use the word languishing unless they're talking about a team that is the lower reaches of a football table there they are

swansea city are languishing in yeah 18th or whatever it happens to be okay okay that is another suggestion for the great uh football commentary what are you calling it john the great dictionary of football commentary there we go that's what we're going to call it uh that that is that is first episode done and we've set ian back about an hour on his prep for the weekend. It's all right. He's working. What about me? You told me you're off down the tip anyway. I am. And it's going to close. Right.

I'm now up against it to get to the tip. Right, you better get going. You better get going. Imagine doing a commentary on that. Well, we might have to. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. I have to say, in all seriousness, what is lovely from my point of view,

and hopefully from your point of view, is actually we've done these sort of pods occasionally when we're at major tournaments but actually although we appear on the radio a lot together we don't get to see each other that much and i know this isn't in person it's on a zoom speak for yourself i am very much looking forward to i've just spent the last week with him yeah fair enough i am looking forward to spending a bit of time with you two during the week, chatting football and telling a few stories. Hopefully it's going to be fun. Hopefully.

All right. Fingers crossed. First episode of The Commentator's View is done. Just to remind you, your commentaries this weekend, Five Live and BBC Sounds, Saturday, three o'clock, Arsenal against Nottingham Forest. Saturday at half five, it's Manchester City Tottenham. And then two games on Five Live's Premier League Sunday

at two o'clock, Southampton, Liverpool. And at half past 4 on Sunday it is Ipswich against Manchester United Ruben Amorim's first game in charge thank you very much for listening we'll be back next week There are a few sibling rivalries that have gripped us quite like that of Liam

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