Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Ian’s mad dash & leaping like a salmon

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis & Ali Bruce-Ball talk football, travel & language. They reflect on two finals in a week as Tottenham win the Europa League and Crystal Palace lift the FA Cup. ‘Herr Chapman’ nearly gets a soaking at Wembley. Ali tells all about the last men’s game at Goodison. Will John’s losing run in Clash of the Commentators come to an end? And which terms will be added or removed from the Great Glossary of Football Commentary?WhatsApp voicenotes to 08000 289 369 Emails to [e-mail] 01:00 Ian’s circuitous route to Bilbao 03:15 Europa League Final reflections 09:35 Crystal Palace win FA Cup at Wembley 11:15 Sean Dyche gives his commentator’s blessing 16:45 ‘Herr Chapman’ nearly gets a soaking 17:35 Ali’s experience of Goodison Park’s last men’s game 22:30 5 Live commentaries this weekend 26:05 Which game is more important for Chelsea? 34:35 John vs Ali in Clash of the Commentators 40:30 Which terms will end up in the Great Glossary?BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Sat 1700 UEFA Women’s Champions League Final Arsenal v Barcelona, Sun 1600 Premier League final day Nottingham Forest v Chelsea, Sun 1600 Liverpool v Crystal Palace on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1600 Wolves v Brentford on Sports Extra 3.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily. I'm John Murray. This is the commentators view where we give our take as five live commentators and take you with us on our travels across Europe and on our tour through the language of football. On which note, we say hello to Alistair Bruce Ball and we say hola again to senior football reporter,

Ian Dennis, we seem to say hola to you virtually every other week. Yeah, are you from Hawaii? When you say hola, isn't it? Well, I like to keep you on your week. Yeah are you from Hawaii when you're saying hola? I like to keep you on your toes. Hola, buenas tardes. Como estas? You have been in Spain a lot. I have yes I think this is the third TCV from España. Bilbao, Madrid and again in Bilbao. How have travels been for that trip? Because I know for the fans it was quite circuitous to try and get yourself to Bilbao and I think it's been the same for

you and the team isn't it? Well therein lies a story Ali because we were due to travel out on Monday, myself and Paul Robinson and the flight from Leeds Bradford Airport was delayed and we only had an hour connection time in Amsterdam and when we actually landed in Schiphol, there was the notification on the phone that we'd missed the connection. But I said to Robbo, I said, I think we've still got a chance.

A little bit like that scene from the film Dumb and Dumber. You tell me there's a chance? So anyway, we made a mad dash across Schiphol Airport. And if you can imagine the Benny Hill theme music being played, we've gone through passport, control the security checks, breeze through there, surprisingly, got to the gate, just at that point,

the bus then pulls away and they say the gate is closed. And so we're left stranded in Amsterdam. And the airline couldn't provide us with hotel accommodation for the night. So we got notifications of the next day so I was then at an early start from Amsterdam to Madrid, Madrid to Bilbao. Paul was then given an opportunity to go direct to Bilbao but only on the night but he decided he wanted to get to Spain so he went to

Madrid where he met his friend who was then going to give him a lift I think or they're going to hire a car to get from Madrid to Bilbao. So he then had a four-hour road trip on the Tuesday. But of course, the Tuesday was my day of prep for the final. And as it turned out, I didn't actually get to Bilbao till Tuesday afternoon. So yes, it was a little bit frustrating to say the least. And I presume you saw lots of other people doing the same sort of thing on the various routes that all of you took there. There was a record number of flights into Bilbao for the final. On the day itself, 268 flights, but from Tuesday to Thursday,

it was something like 720, which they've never had before. But then you've also had other people going through, I mean, I know Manchester United fans had other people going through I mean I know Manchester United fans had flown via Tenerife I'd heard of other journalists who were flying from Mallorca to Menorca and then to Bilbao so yeah any which way. Terrible game great listen I synched up the pictures with the BBC sounds app I've talked about this on the pod before but how you can do that so I've got a little portable speaker, get the Sounds app on my phone, pause the television pictures when the game kicks off, wait for 5 Live to catch up and away you go. I mean it was quality wise it was it was dreadful

but the drama and the nerves and the tension and the like you know I mean almost throughout that second half here when you saw how Tottenham were gonna go go about it, you thought they're just, well, I was thinking they're not going to be able to hold out like this, but they did. I know. And Paul, a little bit like Hare Chapman, refers to this podcast as the last of the summer wine podcast. But I've got to say, even though that I'm not going to count that against him, he called it.

He said there'd be two nervous teams, it's not going to be a great final. And it was an ugly watch at times, wasn't it? Yeah. But then I have to say, I've seen worse. It seems to have been absolutely slammed. You know, I agree with Paul that, you know, it became quite apparent very quickly that that was going to be the case, didn't it? And you know, the stakes were incredibly high. Yeah. But with it became the jeopardy because it was quite clear that then Tottenham had gone so defensive, you know, he threw Angeball out of the window. He went very, very pragmatic, which to be fair, Ali, you saw in the in the semi-final, didn't you, in Norway against Bodo Glimt? But he'd made decisions where he just thought, right, we're going to gamble,

we're going to hold out here. And I've got to say, van de Ven, who spoke in the press conference afterwards, he said it was quite painful, his acrobatic goal line clearance. I mean, that was probably the moment of quality throughout the whole final. And then Vicario made the two saves and Postocoglu then revealed afterwards that he'd made a conscious decision at the end of the January transfer window to concentrate on this competition. He'd made that gamble and if you think that every Premier League, the merit placements

are worth something in the region of £2.8 million, so Tottenham finishing as low as they are and their worst domestic season since what, they probably missed out on 20 million pounds give or take by trying to win the Europa League. Had that not happened then I would imagine that the hierarchy at Tottenham would be most displeased with the situation and yet now all of a sudden they're reaping the rewards because they're gonna get at least a hundred million pounds in a place in the Champions League yeah and if they have a run in that next season you make even

more money of course don't you? Yeah so I don't think it will save him his job though John. No, no, was that very much the talk there was it? Yeah I still think there is a parting of the ways and Postokoglu talks about he's still got a job to do but I think deep down I think he knows and in fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if he popped up in maybe America perhaps. Well let's see shall we? Let's see what unfolds. Yeah I hear a lot of possible destinations for him being mentioned and the fact that he's got a trophy does actually change things doesn't it you know and has been widely pointed out you know the fact

that throughout his career he's won trophies and it does help him that he's ended up with you know that is a considerable trophy and I know people will say well look at who they've beaten along the way etc look at what happened in the final they've still won the trophy yeah you've got you've got him at the weekend actually haven't you Ali yeah I was thinking a question you could pose to him because he's talked about the Stonecutters Creed, about how you strike a hundred blows and on the 101st blow, the stone cracks, but nobody sees the work that's gone in for the first 100

blows to make it crack. And I asked him that question ahead of the final and I just, cause it was his 100th game for Tottenham in that final and I just said you know talked about the Stonecutters Creed but you could just say where will the 102nd blow of the Stonecutters Creed be? Little cryptic. My other idea was to Might be a short answer Ali. Yeah well I think my idea would get an even shorter answer I thought about going in dressed up as a clown for a bit of humour, but no, that was not a serious suggestion. Just, just, I was just thinking though, for the Tottenham fans in particular, to be able

to go to work, to go to school, to go about their daily business and have something to crow about for the first time in a very, very long time. That must feel really, really good for them. Well, you've got one in the Bruce Ball household, haven't you? He's never been able to do it in his lifetime. Yeah, so he's in second form exam week, and we allowed him to stay up, so he had to sort of brush his teeth

and get ready for bed about 15 minutes before the final whistle. I said, if it goes to extra time and penalties, I'm sorry, but we're gonna have to watch those tomorrow morning. I'm not gonna tell you the score but luckily it got done and yes He'll be looking out for Manchester United fans and Arsenal fans today at school. I think in particular they'll be in his sights But I was told today. Did you see this that it's the season of the bird? So Liverpool win the Premier League title the live a bird Newcastle the League Cup the magpie Crystal Palace the FA Cup the Eagle

Tottenham the Europa League obviously the cockerel And then I went to check the nickname of Real Betis. Now Los Verde Blancos, the green and white. But they're also known as Los Verde Rones. The green parrots. The green Birds. Oh. Also, Leeds United won the championship, sometimes referred to as? Ah, the Peacocks. The Peacocks? We're now trying to think of one.

Birmingham City. Blue, blue. I think that might be where that one comes to an end. Yeah, you need to wreck some to win that. Any Cardiff City fan now is thinking... That didn that didn't work so well for Cardiff City. So Chelsea are stuffed, we're saying, next week. Like a Christmas turkey. That's two subtle references you've made now. You've mentioned that they're stuffed and also you said about the Tottenham fans crowing. Yeah, no, I'm heading to Poland next week. Yes, you've got a final to go to next week.

Whereas Ian, you've now covered two finals in the space of what was it? Five days or something since we were both at the FA Cup final together. Are you finaled out? That feels a long time ago, but that was also a lovely, terrific occasion, wasn't it, for the Crystal Palace? I mean, Ali references the the Tottenham fans who've had to wait 17 years for their first silverware 41 years for their last European trophy but for Crystal Palace their first ever major honor and that was some occasion wasn't

it John? Well it was yes and I mean I said this on Five Live over the course of the weekend you know I hope Manchester City fans and I think most of them would accept that there was obvious mass Crystal Palace joy for what they achieved, but I think that so many neutrals were so pleased for Crystal Palace. And I hope those Manchester City fans don't feel that that was directed at them. I hope they can see that it was sharing the joy and the excitement of Crystal Palace doing something that they'd never done before. I thought it was an interesting contrast Ian, between the two finals that you've seen in that one was a gritty 1-0 win and the other one was a gritty 1-0 win, yet they seem to have been received very, very differently, don't they? Yeah, they do. But the thing is, is that the

game is all about winning. And I was speaking to a Tottenham fan before the game and he said, I'm not bothered about the Champions League, I'm not bothered about the financial rewards that it brings. He said, I just want to win. You know, they've had this tag of to be Spursy. I think they're fed up with that title. And in fact, Mickey van de Ven after the match said, we've proved the doubters wrong.

We've proved the doubters wrong about Ange Poste Coglu. We've proved the doubters wrong about Tottenham Hotspur. And they've won and they've done it by winning ugly, which everybody thought that Tottenham probably couldn't do. Well, last week we were talking, weren't we, about the commentators blessing as opposed to the commentators curse. Now, I wonder if listeners heard Sean Dyche,

who was part of our five live commentary team at Wembley last Saturday, when Palace were having to defend deep in that first 15 minutes. This is where your game management comes in. This is where the manager, the coaches, all your players go get on the pitch, go and smother around Mateta,

first balls and second balls, go and change the feel of the game. There were four sky blue shirts ready to press from the off for that goal kick. They do get it forward to Altamaterra. And all of a sudden now Crystal Palace can make a rare folly into the Manchester City half. Munoz to Eze! That's one love-brother. Oh, what a counter-attack!

That is one love-brother. What a devastating counter-attack! And Crystal Palace with the first serious attack, score! It's not often analysis works like that, is it? And actually the longer version of that, you know, he explained it even more precisely about what was about to happen. It's gone viral that I think on social media.

We were talking about this very thing on the pod last week, weren't we? Our experts, the insight they bring. And sometimes it works like that immediately, doesn't it? And actually, and I have to say, I really enjoyed that exchange on the radio because I thought you did so well there because you have to keep going with the goal commentary there, you can't interrupt that and you've got to tell the story but you just, you can just hear Sean Dice say exactly that, that's why we love football underneath you but you don't stop and then you come

back to him and that's actually quite a difficult thing to you but you don't stop and then you come back to him and that's actually quite a difficult thing to do because we don't commentate with Sean Dice all that often and I think part of me certainly thinks, oh crikey I'm being a bit rude here because he's trying to talk but I've got to do my job but I just thought you handled that brilliantly, I have to say. Well I was sat in the middle of Sean and Clinton Morrison so I had Sean to my right who I knew was talking but I thought I've still got to call the moment. To be honest with you,

I was still expecting there to be more goals. I didn't think there'd just be the one goal in the final. But then I had Clinton Morrison, and anybody who's seen the social media clip on the Five Live Sport feed would have seen Clinton celebrate. So he was actually jumping up to my left. And very rarely, I don't know about you two,

I don't tend to stand during a commentary but I felt I had to stand just to fully concentrate on the moment and so that's why I then took to my feet just to make sure that I finished the commentary clip. I actually didn't notice that you'd stood up at the first, I've realised that. I'm not that small. I mean I know you're taller than everybody else, but I'm not that far behind you. No, I presume it's,

because it all happened to my left, wasn't it? So I was obviously looking to my left, but I didn't see you to my right. Listen, we always love your WhatsApp voice notes to us on the commentators view. And the number for those is 08000-289-369. And also your emails to tcvbbc.co.uk. We've had some terrific emails haven't we, particularly I think over the course of the last few weeks or so. But anyway that's what

Plymouth Argyle fan Chris in Doncaster has done, who alerted us to this from the same game the FA Cup final after Omar Mahmouche had his penalty saved. I was looking at him, I don't fancy him, and I said to Clinton, oh fair, I said I don't fancy him. And that's why I died, he's a top manager, because he knows these situations. Average at best. No, top, top, top, top. The four tops for Clinton. I was in the car on the way up to Liverpool and as soon as I heard that I thought that is going to feature in the commentator's view this week and I've not been disappointed

in that. You know our reference about the Year of the Birds, add Philadelphia Eagles winning the Super Bowl, Go Ahead Eagles winning their first Dutch Cup, the Chinese got it wrong, it's the Year of the Eagles. That was from Neil Tipping on social media. Go Ahead Eagles of Deventer, Ali. Yes, I went to go and cover some track cycling there last year and we were going to go and watch. We were going to try and fit in a game but we couldn't manage it to go and watch

the Go Ahead Eagles. But that, no doubt, what's the name of the place I went to? The Apple Dawn. Apple Dawn was where I went. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also that was incredible, wasn't it? The Dutch league PSV overtaking Ajax in the last, real capitulation, wasn't it? Just, yeah. Going back to the FA Cup final, also an email from Mike in Seven Oaks,

loved Saturday's coverage of the Cup final, not least as a Palace fan, but I couldn't help but notice Hare Chapman's reference to the commentator's view as Ian's Last of the Summer Wine podcast. Ian did well not to react, although I noticed some nifty work with the pre-match sprinklers later on to get revenge. I missed that. You can explain that in a minute. Mike goes on, I thought you might be interested to know that the lead camera operator for many episodes of The Last of the Summer Wine was a Mr Chapman, one Peter rather than Mark. Perhaps this is an omen for Hare Chapman's potential role in the forthcoming TCV World

Tour brackets that cannot be mentioned. And it still can't be mentioned. It still can't be mentioned, even though what we can't mention is supposed to be happening on July the 4th, isn't it? It is, yes. Yet, unless we mention it, those three are gonna be the only people who are there.

I'm not there, John, I can't make it. You're not there, you're not even going. No. Anyway, we can't mention it anyway what would happen with the sprinklers so we were we were doing that presenting malarkey on the red button as part of the build-up to the FA Cup final on the pitch side and the sprinklers came on and I noticed that the sprinkler was just edging its way around and I'm thinking this is gonna catch hair Chapman but it was just

taking its time and I was a little bit too quick to bring out the camera phone So I started filming him, but by doing so I alerted him to it And then all of a sudden he looked over his shoulder and had I not done it I would have caught him and I was saying yeah, not only would have it would have been quite amusing I would have also benefited a hundred pounds from sending into, you know, you've been framed or whatever it is. That's still going. And Ali, we must get a word from you as well on your experience at Goodison Park on Sunday morning.

I know our colleague, BBC chief football writer Phil McMillillty texted me that morning at about, well certainly between nine and ten I think in the morning and it said it had taken him I think three quarters of an hour to walk through the crowds outside Goodison Park. Yeah, so this was farewell to Goodison, the end of an era they called it, so the men's first team, their last ever game at Goodison Park. It was really special John I have to say the club did it brilliantly and right throughout the whole day my favorite memories of the day really are actually before the game got underway so actually the walk through Liverpool City Centre in the morning to get to my car with the Sun just coming up deserted City Centre but

fans in the blue shirts just slowly drifting you know know, towards the, I think as I said on air, their church on a Sunday, you know, the game kicked off at 12 o'clock on a Sunday. But I really felt that the fans and particularly the walk across Stanley Park as well, that the fans were really trying to drag it out, you know, trying to linger, trying to savour every last moment of it. The scene's outside the ground, so I got in the ground at half past eight for a midday kickoff. That's three and a half hours before the game starts. And the singing within half an hour outside the ground was shaking the ground. I mean,

it was unbelievable. And if you go to the social media feeds for Five Life Sport, Sam Huxley was with me on the day. He captured some brilliant stuff. The team bus couldn't get through on the route it wanted to get through. You couldn't even see the team bus because of the blue smoke everywhere. But I think the bit that will stay with me the most was Zedkars, was the last ever entrance to that brilliant tune. And they did that so well because everyone knew what was coming. So silence fell and then that siren just rang around an empty stadium like three or four times then those drums then that sort of piercing whistle of the melody and the roar, I tell you the roar when they came out of the tunnel and onto the pitch was quite something and

Pat Pat, Pat Nevin was really taken aback by the whole thing and Pat you know we've all been at so many football occasions with Pat where I always think he's such a cool customer and so measured and always a good man and doesn't get too carried away with the emotion of things and when the full-time whistle blew actually and he did his last little up some and we were painting the pictures, the lump in the throat came and it was lovely to see him amongst the parade of legends on the pitch after the game Leon Osmond who we worked with was down there Phil Jagielka was down there I mean I really enjoyed seeing that 80s team Neville Southwood did you see him and his outrageous sort of Hawaiian

brightly colored shirt but Kevin Sheedy was there and Paul Bracewell and Wayne Rooney and it was it was brilliant it was a really really good day. I know listening to you on the way back from fromembley on the Sunday, the one thing that struck me, and you referenced it many times though Ali, was just the noise. And as we know, when the Everton fans are at their raucous best, there is no better atmosphere than Goodison, is there? No, and do you know what? The one thing I would say that I really loved about the beginning that I forgot to say on air was no TFO display, no fireworks, you know, just the Z Cars theme tune and the fans in their blue shirts with scarves and flags. That's all it needed.

And sometimes, you know, pre-match, you know, some of the pre-match stuff we see is absolutely brilliant. But it's such an old school ground, Goodison, that that was perfect for that occasion. And I think, you know, there's things we won't miss about Goodison Park, but that sort of atmosphere and feel and character I think we will miss. And they will take Zed cars with them, and that will still be a big part of match day, won't it, at the new stadium. And they need the new stadium for a club, you know, to move forward.

But I'll miss it. And those Everton fans are really, really, lots of them are really going to miss it. You know with that in mind and it's well documented that I don't like going to Selhurst Park because it's a pain to travel to and yet it is still one of the most atmospheric stadiums in the Premier League. I've got to say the Crystal Palace supporters last week, when you were commentating John on the final whistle for that cut final, I went outside the commentary box, filmed it, and that was it. Just as a football fan, that was a genuine spine-tingling moment when the final whistle sounded. I thought, ooh, I got the old shudder. It was a really, really special moment.

And if you are listening to us and you are a Crystal Palace fan and you weren't listening to the commentary last Saturday, I would suggest having a listen back because you can do that now. BBC Sounds, go into the stations and schedules box, click on that. You'll find the schedule for Five Live from last Saturday afternoon and you can listen to the whole thing again and see what it sounded like with us. And I think, well, I hope you'd agree it would be top top top top. As for this weekend our five live commentaries, big games this weekend as well, not least the small matter of the UEFA Women's Champions League final Saturday 5 o'clock Arsenal against Barcelona and Vicky Sparks and Izzy Christensen are going to be

in Lisbon, they're playing it in the Alvalad aren't they? Sunday, Ian, last day of the Premier League as we've long suspected, Nottingham Forest against Chelsea is going to be your destination with Paul Robinson who you've not seen much of recently. Yes, there'll be no dashing through Schiphol to get to the city ground but of course how is it all gonna unfold? I mean we actually predicted didn't we a few weeks ago that we thought that Nottingham Forest would miss out on the on the top five and it looks like that is gonna be the case but Chelsea have still got work to do to

secure their own top five finish. It's brilliantly set up that match. I'm gonna be at Liverpool which I discovered now reading this. That is also a commentary match for us on SportsXtra 2, Wolves versus Brentford on SportsXtra 3, and you can find those streams only on the BBC Sounds app. Just scroll through the live radio dial at the top. So in the latter part of Sunday afternoon we'll be describing the trophy lift inside Anfield which I've done once before but that was without a crowd back in 2020 so I'll be describing that. And it's also Liverpool Crystal Palace will be the Community Shield match

at the start of next season. one of our editors Simon Folt has suggested that I describe it as the dress rehearsal for the curtain raiser so listen out for that. I think there's going to be goals in that game John because I think you know Liverpool since winning the title are finishing with a bit of a whimper but I think Arna slot is going to go strong last home game of the season crowd are going to be right up for it and Palace having won the FA Cup are just going to go for it. I think that could be quite entertaining as a game actually. And Stephen Warnock has assured me that the atmosphere there on Sunday for the trophy

lift will also be really really special. It's also Radio 1's big weekend in Liverpool this weekend so it's all happening there. And Ali, you next week are off to Poland. Yes, so Tottenham Brighton for me on Sunday first of all, which again is going to be all about atmosphere and Tottenham still celebrating their win but also I think very much going to be about speaking to Angeposter Koglu after the season is completely finished. Brighton actually can still finish eighth, that is in their hands, they just need to avoid defeat to do that. Eighth could still mean European football next season if Chelsea finish seventh and then win the Europa Conference League or if Chelsea finish sixth, win the Europa Conference League and Newcastle finish seventh. I've

looked at the maths of that, the second scenario there is hugely unlikely. First one actually very possible if Chelsea lose to Nottingham Forest could easily finish seventh and win the Conference League. So eighth could still be good enough. But yes then off to Wroclaw John where I have been before. So that's Europa Conference League final. Pat Nevin and I will do the commentary next Wednesday and we were there for Europe. You've been there recently actually haven't you? Yes, I went with England, Kyle Walker scored for England and Oleg Zinchenko for Ukraine. There's a very good bus from the airport, I remember catching the bus to the airport

so that was very, very easy. And of course Chelsea supporters could be going if you're listening to this Chelsea fans, don't lose any sleep over that dead easy bus from right into the middle of town And from Chelsea's point of view It's a really big few days because the massive game on Sunday that Ian's gonna be at could get themselves Champions League football next season And could win a trophy But might end up not in the Champions League and not winning a trophy So that that is a big difference in terms of sort of how that season is going to be viewed the first one under Enzo Maresca so so interesting couple of games coming. The Forrest game has to be their priority with what's at

stake in terms of the Champions League rather than a Conference League title no? Yeah it's interesting that isn't it Ian because you know earlier in this podcast we discussed just how important from the Tottenham fans point of view just winning a trophy is to Tottenham but it's different for Chelsea isn't it in terms of what they've won and particularly what they've won recently. I commentated a couple of years ago on West Ham winning this very trophy and that was a huge moment in the football club's history that whereas that won't be the same for Chelsea and I completely agree with you I think the priority has to be for a club of Chelsea size getting into the

Champions League next season winning the Conference League doesn't do that for you so yes I'd agree that the bigger game is on on Sunday and then what will be interesting against Real Betis that's Manuel Pellegrini in charge of them and an in-form Anthony because I've been catching up I've been doing my prep on them who's obviously on loan from Manchester United and you know barely play any football at Old Trafford this season but is but is doing the business at the moment and I think they will provide quite stiff opposition to Chelsea in a competition they've absolutely breezed through so far but no I agree

with you I think I think the most important game for them is is the one you're out on Sunday. Meanwhile a Nottingham Forest fan has emailed us, tcv at bbc.co.uk. And this is Forest fan Thomas who says, as an avid listener of sport on the radio, your podcast feels like it's made for me. I listen to more games on the radio than I watch on TV. And the BBC sounds app is superb.

And I love the listen back feature. Well done Thomas. As a 35 year old Forrest fan these last few years have been incredible for us and as we take our Champions League fight to the last day I've been reminded again of a few great radio related moments on the last day over the years. In 2008 Forrest needed to win but also rely on relegation threatened Cheltenham beating Doncaster on the final day to ensure promotion out of League One. How far we've come brackets. I took my little FM radio and was the most popular man in our section of the Citygram

that afternoon. I still get goose bumps when I listen back as Radio Nottingham commentator Colin Fray said, Cheltenham are in front, Cheltenham 2, Doncaster 1. I leapt from my seat as everyone else around me jumped up too like we'd scored and the City ground went nuts. It was a great moment. It's also three years today since we beat Arsenal to stay up in our first season back in the Premier League. Not sure if Ali can remember the noise when Kaelor Navas caught the ball in injury time as we clung on to our 1-0 win. It genuinely sounds like a goal has been scored on the 5 live coverage. Erdogan outside of the foot finds Saka, White to Pate, Pate lays it back to Saka,

corner of the box, cross comes into the far post, and Navas comes and claims it with both hands, and an almighty roar emits from all four stands at the City Ground. Did that sound like a goal? Anyone listen there must have thought, was a goal scored there? No, the goalkeeper just caught it in the back post. Pat with Ali that day, and Thomas goes on to say, I'll have my trusty pocket radio there on Sunday too, just in case we can pull off another miracle and make it into the top five. But even if we don't manage it and end up seventh I hope the city ground is still rocking.

And he finishes by saying it's been an incredible season. Do you have any last day commentary stories from over the years? Love the podcast. Cheers. Thomas, do you remember that Ali? I do John really well and I mean listening back to it, it you know completely comes alive in my mind again but before we'd heard the commentary I remember that moment extremely well I remember I remember the game and it is amazing isn't it in terms of Thomas making that point where Forrest have got

to from that point and how important that game was well that season was to stay up and then they've they've there. In terms of last day commentary stories, the one I remember John was you, I think it was you at Villa Manchester City when Liverpool are breathing down Manchester City's necks on the last day of the season and Villa go 2-0 up and I was at Anfield and Liverpool were playing Wolves but had gone 1-0 down and it had the potential that to be really, really exciting. Liverpool got level and then needed a goal and had they scored a goal to get in front at that point they would have been ahead of Manchester City but before Salah could score City like in the blink of an eye

scored three goals didn't they in five minutes And it killed it, killed it dead. But just for a second something was bubbling there that could have been quite sensational. Yeah, I mean, I've commentated on lots of these over the years and a couple that come very much to mind. You'll remember this Ian, when Paul Duelke kept Bradford City up. Yes. I remember sitting at Bramall Lane. Was it Bramall Lane? Yes, it was. And I remember our position Bramall Lane, was it Bramall Lane?

Yes it was. And I remember our position on the gantry, I remember looking down on him as he looked up with his fists clenched. So I remember that one. Wasn't the Bramall Lane one when he was at Wigan? Oh sorry, it was, yeah Wigan, that's right, it was Wigan, it was Wigan when they stayed up.

But I was also there when Bradford stayed up. But the one I remember was West Brom when West Brom had been bottom at Christmas and they beat Portsmouth, Brian Robson's West Brom to stay up on the final day. That really was, I mean, as it is called, the great escape by the West Brom supporters. So that's very much one that comes to mind for me. I think I might have been there with you that day at the Hawthorns and Frank Skinner and Adrian Childs were sat together I think just in front of us from memory. But there was also another one and I did the game with David Pleat and I speak to Pleaty quite a lot and he still references this. It might have been about 2007, somewhere around there there Oxford United late-Norian

and we didn't have a computer and it was to see who could stay up in the Football League and we had about seven different permutations and you know when you rehearse the permutations and you've got it all in your head and we were on top of it throughout the whole day and Even now I forget who actually went down who actually drops out of the Football League but David still references that as a very very dramatic day so that one would would certainly stick in the mind that's one of the great things about working on the final day of the season in any league isn't it is when you're at the ground where a goal is scored at

another ground that has impact on the game that you're at and then that ripple effect that goes round the stadium when people get news, it's one of the great things to witness, that sort of word of mouth travelling fast around a packed arena. But not as good, I felt, as when everyone would find out at the same time. I mean that was that period of time that we had when people would as Thomas was saying there take the radios to the ground and everyone would find out at the same time I mean that was a that was an amazing thing to witness when a crowd would go up For something that's happened a hundred miles away you'd also have that that rogue element where there'd be a little bit of misinformation and

Somebody would start celebrating and we know that we've got a reporter at that game and we're thinking why have we not gone there if there's been a goal? And there hasn't been a goal and it's somebody who has just erroneously said they've scored and they haven't and all of a sudden that the hopes then are quickly extinguished. Yeah Manchester City of course being the best example of that. With the BBC Sounds app, never miss a moment from the world's greatest sporting events. Just head to the BBC Sounds app, scroll through the live radio dial and tap on sports extra 2 or sports extra 3 The commentators view on the football daily podcast BBC Radio 5 live Now it is time I'm delighted to say the clash of the commentators and Liverpool fan Roy from New Zealand has emailed in will anyone ever be able to knock ABB off his perch?

Well, not this season they won't The question is Roy will John end his losing sequence before the end of the season? That is more of a question. By the way, is Roy sort of attempting a glossary entry there, knocking someone off their perch, do you think? Is that trying to bring glossary into Clash of the Compenators? Maybe to be discussed afterwards. Yeah, so it's top versus bottom, it's Ali versus John.

John is looking to arrest a run of eight straight defeats. Top of the league in January, now bottom of the league in January now bottom of the league and getting cut adrift even Ajax have mirrored your capitulation how'd have given how did King getting this close to winning this is Ajax so the current leaderboard Ali 10 from 12 so impressive I'm 5 from 12 and then John oh this is awful this is awful this is this is Ruben Amerin form this it's 3 from 12 and then John oh this is awful this is awful this is this is Ruben Amerim form this it's three from 12 I've got to say by the way after the press conference after the game he's under pressure Ruben Amerim there was a

there was a notable change from the questions he was getting some tough questions regarding his his future and it was quite telling he said if the board and the fans want me to go Then I will leave the next day without any compensation Anyway, just without compensation If I get sacked for my performance on Clash of the commentators, I will not be going without compensation Who wants to go first? Should I go first? Yeah, I'll unplug Okay, and then we're ready to go first? Shall I go first? Yep, I'll unplug. Okay. And then we're ready to go.

Right. I wonder if it'll help me today, doing this later in the day, instead of always first thing in the morning. Are you suggesting you're a little sluggish on the morning? Well, we'll find out, won't we? We will find out. Yeah.

Right. Tottenham ended their 17-year wait for a trophy as they beat Manchester United in the Europa League final. But I want you to name any of the players in the matchday squad when Tottenham won their previous bit of silverware in the 2008 League Cup final against Chelsea. Your time starts now. Terrible on these sort of questions. Jonathan Woodgate.

Jermain Ginas, Dimitri Berbatov, Modric, was Modric in that team? Andros Townshend, probably too early for him. King, Ledley King. No, Ledley King was the captain, but I've got a feeling that that was after the 30 seconds. Anyway, it won't matter, cause he'll get all of these. Okay. It won't matter, that would be irrelevant.

I can feel the Jeopardy building. There's no, let me tell you, if you're listening to this if you feel as jeopardy forget it Anyway, ali, are you ready? Yep So totler mended their 17 year wait for a trophy as they beat manchester united I want you to name any of the players in the matchday squad when totler won their previous bit of silverware in the 2008 league cup final against chelsea Your time starts now. Yeah, it's not one I'd like to do. Robbie Keane, Jermaine Genis, Jonathan Woodgate, Paul Robinson, Benoit Asu-Ekoto I think played in that game.

Did Berbatov play? I'm trying to think of them all celebrate. Well I'm not asking this question, I'm going to say Dimitar Berbatov. Aaron Lennon Nice before bail obviously isn't it silly Michael Dawson I'm gonna chuck in a random Roman Pavlyachev You did this last week you did this last week you went oh and then all of a sudden you make such a strong start And you win it with it within the opening 10 seconds. I don't even need to know whether

the Ledley King one from John counts or not because Ali you've kept up your winning run. Okay. Paul Robinson quite rightly was the goalkeeper. Alan Hutton, Jonathan Woodgate who scored the 94th minute winner in extra time. Ledley King the captain, Pascal Cimbanda, Aaron Lennon, Jermaine Ginas, Didier Zakora, Steve Morbronk, Robbie Keane who you got, you both said Dimitar Berbetov, on the bench you had Redick Cherny, Eunice Kaboul, Timo Tainu, Tom Huddleston and Darren Bent and the manager was? Juan de Rondes. Muy bien.

Si. So, who scored the first goal? Good question John. Berbatov penalty. John Murray. Tres. Ledley King did not stand. Alistair Boussoul. Cés. 6-3.

Did it come after the buzzer? Yeah, he was claiming Ledley King was in time but it wasn't. I didn't even need VAR for that, I knew. And so John, how many defeats on the row is that why yeah, he was claiming Ledley King was in time, but it wasn't I didn't even need VAR for that I knew okay, and so John how many defeats on the row is that? I think I think next season is gonna come for me that John is gonna come flying out of the blocks next season I think I think that's what was funny though Hey, baby When you took your cans off and and you'll listen to it again when you do listen back to the final edit.

He said, I wonder if recording this liit might possibly help me, like. He was still as sluggish in the afternoon as he is on the morning. Good. Well that went well again. So Ali, that's 11 from 13. Anyway moving on from that again. It's time for the Great Glossary of Football commentary as we add listener suggestions of football specific commentary terms and phrases to add to our collection. So last week we said yes to Fox in the Box and we said yes to Nutmeg. I think Franny Jeffers was on the pitch at Goodison Park on Sunday. There we are.

Who is your classic Fox in the Box isn't he? And Stevenage fan Owen in Maine in the United States of America says, just for giggles I asked ChatGPT to give me references to Fox in the Box in other sports. Thought you chaps might find this interesting. Basketball, the equivalent is paint lurkers, and ice hockey, garbage goal scorer or crease crasher. Now that, that sounds to me like a goal hanger more than a fox in the box and I think that's where chat GPT falls down. However also I saw

Goal hanger could make the glossary Well it could do yeah although that's more the playground isn't it. But anyway also I saw the Daily Mirror's John Cross last weekend who is an avid listener to this podcast as well so hello John a, a surprise mention for you. And he was telling me, because he remembered the time when the phrase with reference to Arsenal Fox in the box first surfaced, which was back, I think he said 2001 that it was, and he said that it actually came from Thierry Henry. He said that Thierry Henry, he said that Thierry Henry did an interview with the French media and it was translated for the English media from Thierry Henry's words into Fox in the Box.

And that's when it was then used in English as the Fox in the Box. So it actually came from Thierry Henry, according to John. Anyway, phrases we didn't accept last week. On the beach was given a no, worldy, still no, and will continue to be still no if anyone wants to propose it again. Put the eyebrows on it.

I said no to that, although stay tuned listeners. God of honor, no. Top bins goes in the worldy bin and where the where the kookaburra, not yet. But Spud says hello chaps a few eyebrows were raised in our household when we heard John reference them in the Arsenal Newcastle game on Sunday. Hilariously the other Glenn, didn't bite. Let's have a listen. Corner for Newcastle there first, from the right-hand side,

which is worked back to Tonali, puts his foot on at the Italian. Then the cross, Kivio gets his head to that, and with a little glance off the old eyebrows, sends it across his goal and behind for a corner. I was watching Callum Wilson because he's just about to kiss that with his forehead and as soon as Kivjord glances away his hands went on his head. Couple of times, Callum Wilson has been lurking and ready. Arsenal have done enough to get it away.

Yes, lurky-o, as Frankie Howard used to say. I forgot I'd said that. I heard that live. Yeah, maybe. I was thinking that. Anyway, our producer Nathan has suggested we might need to explain that for the younger listeners, which I think it came from Ouk Ponte, didn't it? Well, I was going to say, could you explain that for me? Do you not remember that, being one of our younger listeners? So yes, I think that was Frankie Hallard in Ponte, a classic of the

time. Also Glenn, who was with me, came up with a great phrase that I thought I must propose that for the glossary because we're referring to, I can't remember who we're referring to now, our player who'd signed a new contract. It was Robbie Savage. It was Robbie who'd signed his new contract with Macclesfield and Glenn said when I described it as a contract he said shouldn't you be describing that as a bumper new contract and I mean that is such a football phrase isn't it, has signed a bumper new contract. Yeah I like that, I mean is it football specific enough, do we say that in other, yeah we do make it hard for ourselves to get these in.

But as soon as because I listen to you say that, I knew you were going to bring that into the conversation today. And I thought that's great from Glenn. That's that's that's really good. I could see a lucrative deal in another sport. He signed a bumper deal. Maybe. Yeah. Still a great. It is brilliant. Such a brilliant.

You'd never you'd never ever use that, would you? You'd never see you'd never got it. Hey, guess what? I've just signed a bumper new contract. Not at the BBC, you wouldn't. Well, certainly not on this podcast, you wouldn't. Also, if management are listening, can you now edit that bit out?

Also, from Arsenal Newcastle last weekend, Also from Arsenal Newcastle last weekend, our colleague, Kenya, our outside broadcast engineer sent me a message after the match and she was being picked up. She had all of the equipment, so she was being picked up and she said that her cabbie, Peter, punctured a tire on his arrival at the Emirates, so right outside the Emirates he had a puncture and he was struggling to undo the last couple of wheel nuts when a kind fella called Marco Raposo saw that he was having a problem and offered to help. Between the two of them they eventually managed to change the tire and she said please would you give Marco a shout out

on the Commentators View podcast. He doesn't listen to the radio but he listens to podcasts and he's going to start listening to this one. So Marco Raposo, well done for being a knight in shining armour. I think if you translated that name to English literally it would be Mark Rest, Marco Reposo, but Marco Reposo is a much better name than Mark Rest I think. We also have an email from Kenneth in Scotland, which is quite, quite, we'd never say we've had an email from John in England would we? So I don't know where Kenneth is from specifically but any, oh you know he's from Glasgow.

It's written at the bottom, sorry. Kenneth in Glasgow. He says, something that reared its head last week was the phrase, put the eyebrows on it, which I agree should not make it into the glossary. However, surely this was an open goal to discuss, put the laces through it, which must be a contender. It's a phrase I feel is a relatively recent addition to the lexicon of footballing language and would love to

hear your thoughts on this keep up the great work and once you're able to announce the thing that you can't announce make sure you stop by in a town near me well Kenneth I'm afraid the thing we can't mention is not near Glasgow I would suggest it's probably about four hours south of Glasgow. Put the laces through it? Yeah? Or no? What about a rugby union full-back striking a conversion?

I don't know, I don't think you'd hear that from a rugby commentator. Put the laces through it is either the clearance from the back in football or it's the screamer isn't it that goes ripping into the top corner, absolutely put hisaces around I don't know I think for now I think we'll do the classic thing shall we should we let it in and then we'll get correspondents saying why we can't and then we'll take it out again I think that's a good idea shall I read the one from the email we've had in from England yeah Chris from Falmouth Falmouth Falmouth what's your mouth out Falmouth Falmouth yeah Cornwall. Falmouth? What's your mouth out?

Falmouth. Falmouth. Yeah, Cornwall. It's been a long 24 hours I can tell you. I told you about the travails that we had to get to Bilbao. I haven't told you about the travails to get away from the stadium. It took us about an hour to find a taxi. Anyway, absolutely loved the podcast. Where was Marco Raposo when you needed him?

Well, he was fixing somebody's puncture. Absolutely love, this is Chris from Falmouth. Absolutely love the podcast, but I'm looking at the glossary entries, I feel I must be a killjoy and request that, through his cap on it, be removed. Not only is it used in, but I think might be wrong, that it originated from cricket.

Back in the day, fielders chasing a ball would throw their cap on it to prevent the ball from going to the boundary and in some cases even use it to catch the ball. To deter this from happening, five penalty runs are now added if this occurs. Therefore, I feel this phrase should be removed. Keep up the good work. Oh I like this bit. Hare Chapman's gonna have to up his game or your pod will soon be overtaking MNC. I already thought it had by numerous listeners. I thought we've already overtaken Hare Chapman.

On the same subject, he threw his cap on it. Chris in North Wales says, I'm fascinated by the glossary of football terms, but I think could have thrown his cap on it should be removed because I'm sure I've heard it used in cricket commentary when a fielder has failed to gather a ball rolling towards the boundary keep up the good work And when you do your live tour the tool that can't be mentioned, please include land dud know I will most certainly be there. I don't think one date can be described as a tour Yet, but it is that it's the start of it is it I mean already the world tour

It's building momentum. There is a promoter somewhere in his office now smoking a cigar He's he's conjuring up the dates and very soon We're gonna get an email on whatever the email address is and they're gonna go on the whatsapp thingy as well And they're gonna go other three of you ready to embark on a world tour. We've got Thailand. We've got Estonia embark on a world tour. We've got Thailand, we've got Estonia, North Wales. So throw his cap on it. Oh that's now being thrown out. That's thrown out, we've thrown out the cap. That's a shame because I can hear Loro saying it.

Yeah, I can. New suggestions, Chris, who's a Wolves fan from Sydney, Australia. Despite the bar for glossary inclusions being raised each week, I have a suggestion that I'm hoping you might discuss. I heard Brendan Johnson's goal in the Europa League final, so this is fresh in there, Ian, described as being bundled over the line. That wasn't me, I said smuggled. Smuggled over the line, okay.

Nice, yeah. I wonder if this is unique to football, a succinct way to describe a scrappy and chaotic sequence of play that results in the ball eventually going over the goal line. I can't think of this term being used in other sports, maybe rugby, but wouldn't that mean the ball had come loose and therefore be a knock on? I'd love to know your thoughts on this. Yeah, they'd come up with a Stramache in rugby, wouldn't they? I like it,

I think Chris is right here, bundled over the line. Yeah, if people don't like it then obviously they will let us know, ccv at bbc.co.uk. Okay, next suggestion comes on a voice note, here we go. Hi guys, Jack from Gloucester here. Currently listening to John and Glenn do the Arsenal-Newcastle game and John just said something that I think would be a great fit for the Gloucery. more or less underneath the crossbar by the Newcastle goalkeeper, Pope, a bit of a a goal mouth scramble, wasn't it? A six yard box scramble. How many headers can you get in such close vicinity? I think there were six or seven in there wasn't there John? I'd love to see that, don't you? These days. A goal mouth scramble. I can't think of any other sport, potentially hockey maybe, but I can't think of any other sport where that would be used. I hope it gets in.

Has Jack got a budgerigar? Or a parakeet. Parakeet? That was in stereo, Ali. It was the year of the birdie, yeah? Yeah. Well, thanks for that, Jack, and say hello to the parakeet. Yeah, and Roland in South London got in touch, must have heard the

same bit of commentary. I mean the hockey point's a good one but Goal Mass scramble's got to be close to getting into the glossary I think. That Arsenal Newcastle game has thrown up a good deal more discussion than I expected today. We've also got an email from Richard from Hertfordshire an email from Richard from Hertfordshire who says, I've recently started listening to your podcast. I was surprised by the way, it is an interjection that we've now gone past 25 of these. Pods. Yeah.

How many have you listened to John? I've listened to all of the ones that I'm on. So Richard says, I have to say you are now my favorite taking over from MNC, Monday nightclub. And you won't be happy. We're sorry. He's not, he's, he says he's not listening anymore.

So he'll be blissfully unaware. Richard says you are far more laid back and more calming than that lot. Anyway, the phrase I think needs to be added to the glossary is one not from a commentator, but a humorous comment made one Sunday morning at a football match. A few of my mates used to play for the White Lion in Bulldog and not being any good at playing I used to go and watch. When one of our guys scored from a towering header some wit said to us, other guys on the touchline, he lept like a salmon could this be added and Realizing while writing this a towering header could be another one love the show from Richard

Have we not referenced a towering header before? Let me have a list It's not a little should be it should be it should it's not on the list We've definitely referenced it because that was there we have we then started talking about a stooping header. Didn't we? Like a salmon Salmon a stupid yeah, it's stupid and stupid header You're gonna regret saying that next time you do a commentary with us a stupid yen Yeah, you're gonna say stupid. Yeah, we're the stupid head. That's stupid head and you could look rather stupid if you get it wrong

Let like a salmon. I'm inclined to say no. Oh I'm inclined to say no. You could potentially leap like a salmon if you were a paint lurker. Ah you could. Lep like a salmon. Okay yeah yeah yeah. By the way we've heard from Kenneth in Scotland and we've heard from Chris in North Wales. So how about this from Jonathan in Northern Ireland? Greetings from Sonny Macrofelt or Marrofelt depending on where you live in the town. I would like to humbly put forward the following phrase which I heard over the weekend. It is keeping the ball under his spell. This often refers to a player skillfully maintaining possession of a ball while moving it around the field often under pressure from

opposing players. Hoping it makes the cut. Big fan of the Fantasy 606 pod and wishing the mighty Bruce all the best with his four point lead. All the best guys, thanks. He's tried to ingratiate himself with you Ali, for that already I've got doubts. That's a phrase keeping the ball and drift spell, I've not heard that for a long time but had we mentioned that before, in fact I'll be commentating on him again next week, Kvichar, Kvaracskaliar. I think I might just slip one of those in during the Champions League final. Aidan Hazard was one who kept the ball under his spell. It's that really close control while moving at speed isn't it I think. Is that the small

matter of the Champions League final? It is. Glossary? Glossary? Is it going in? Yes, for me, actually. So, knock off their perch from... Are we keeping you up Ian? Sorry? Are we keeping you up? Didn't realise that the yawn had been picked up by the microphone. It's like the parakeets, we don't miss much.

No, that was a trainer squeaking on the wooden floor. Oh, OK. So knock off that perch from Roy. You could get that in any sport, in any dominator. Yeah, you associate it with football because of Sir Alex Ferguson and Liverpool, don't you? But then it gets used in other sports. I don't think that can go in, but I do like it. Eyebrows, still no, still wronglish. Yeah, yeah, even though I said it. Not for me. still no, still wrong-glish. Yep.

Yeah, even though I said it. Not for me. Bump a new contract, too widely used. Yes. Put the laces through it, we're gonna say yes, aren't we, for now. Yep. Uh, throws his cap on it, sadly being removed. Yeah, it's disappointing that, but I think it's right.

Bundled over the line. I like it, yep, for me. Let's include it for the time being. Goal mouth scramble stroke six yard box scramble. Goal mouth scrambles are definite. Okay. Isn't it? Yep. Yeah. I'm good with that. You will get hockey fans saying you can have a goal mouth scramble but let's stick it in. Do it. Left Like A Salmon. I thought we said no to that one. Yeah, we've rejected it. Only the fish John West rejects.

Makes John West Salmon the best. The brands are available. They are, yeah, they are absolutely right. For example, Young's, they do salmon, I think. And Towering Header. In. All in. So there we are. I hope you've enjoyed the emails and WhatsApp voice notes that we've heard today and if you want to contribute to that 08000 289 369 for the voice notes and emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk. Thank you

very much Ian, safe travels home from Bilbao and Alice, safe travels to Wroclaw. Thank you. Enjoy the bus from the airport. And that is it for this episode of the Football Daily. But also out today, now listen to this, there is a bonus episode with Arna Slot on Liverpool's Premier League title win and of course partying in Ibiza. You alright Ian? You gonna have an afternoon nap now? Have a siesta. You can also catch the reaction to the England squad. I'll be there for that.

Thomas Tuca will be talking to us and we will have an episode of the Football Daily from Wembley Stadium ahead of the World Cup qualifiers against Andorra, which will be in Spain again, so Ian's gonna be back in Spain. You'll hear the commentary on Five Live and also the friendly against Senegal from Nottingham Forest. And also tell your friends about the commentator's view.

And remember, you can catch every single episode on the Football Daily feed on BBC Science. It's never gonna end. That's a terrible question. Yeah, but I should have had last week's question. Last week's question. I was... Yeah. Just, just, just write this season off, use it as practice, and then next season we start, we start afresh, don't we? Clean slate.

Are we back for next season? Well, that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Haven't had, haven't had any terms been sent through the post yet for a bumper deal. It's the scandal that rocked rugby union to its core. The so-called Bloodgate scandal. Tom Williams now receiving attention. It seems so clear that this wasn't real blood. It's out and out cheating. This is a story of lies and deception,

conspiracies and cover-ups. There was terror that it could tear the house down. Courtroom drama and secret deals. So obviously a lie. And a human cost that changed lives and careers forever. Dean Richards is found guilty and banned for three years. I'm Ross Kemp and this is Sports Strangers Crimes, Bloodgate.

Listen on BBC Sounds.