Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Ian’s Moscow mistake & Las Naranjas

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

John Murray, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce-Ball tell the tales you don’t normally get to hear. Hear Ian’s story about his ‘clanger’ at Leeds United, Clash of the Commentators breaks new ground as Ali and Ian go head-to-head. And the panel also reflect on Champions League drama, Merseyside madness and tough times for Tottenham and Manchester United. Plus, voicenotes are now being accepted for the ‘Great Glossary of Football Commentary’!02:55 To sit or to stand? 04:40 ‘Intense’ week for John & Ian 08:20 Ian’s away goals rule ‘clanger’ 10:50 Iwata fires one into the glossary 11:45 TCV’s first voicenotes! 18:00 Clash of the Commentators 27:40 John surges clear in the Golden Mic contest 29:50 Champions League / Merseyside reflections 31:45 Tough times for Tottenham & Man Utd 38:55 Mousse, cheesecake & Crusty the Pie 43:10 Sending the goalkeeper the wrong way?BBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries this weekend: Sat 15 Feb 1500 Man City v Newcastle, Sat 15 Feb 1730 Crystal Palace v Everton, Sun 16 Feb 1400 Liverpool v Wolves, Sun 16 Feb 1630 Tottenham v Man Utd.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello, I'm Ian Dennis. This is the commentators view where we take you behind the microphone and tell you the stories that you don't normally get to hear. And as ever correspondent John Murray and Ali Bruce Paul are with us and Ali you're back with your one week break.

Yeah bouncing back onto the pod I really missed it last week actually I was listening enviously so I have caught up with last week's episode. I know Mark Chapman listens with the lawyers just checking that everything's okay and that seemed to pass muster for me but it was funny actually because listening to obviously Jackie and Chris Jones I actually spent my Saturday off last weekend while you guys were working hard on the FA Cup football at Twickenham I had some tickets to Twickenham for an incredible, incredible second half in particular, really cagey first half but an incredible finish in that game

and then managed to meet up with Chris Jones after the game which was quite funny because I sort of got my own personal tactical breakdown of what had happened in the second half because he'd obviously watched it totally sober and commentated on it and I'd watched it from afar and I was slightly less sober so I just wanted to check that my reading of the game was similar to his but no it was great really good weekend. Rather disappointingly I didn't get to hear that because during the second half of that,

I was commentating on the first half of Birmingham Newcastle on Sports Extra. So that really passed me by a little. But in a slightly nerdy fashion, and despite the fact I'd taken a couple of AILs on board, as that played out in the second half, particularly the finish, one of my first thoughts was, wow, I wonder what that sounded like on radio, that must have sounded absolutely amazing. Particularly because I think with rugby,

there's so much sort of set piece set up and actually I've since seen the commentary, so often now we have these commentary cameras, don't we, in position, so I've seen Chris Jones doing this commentary standing next to Matt Dawson and they set it up so brilliantly by saying you know this is England's only chance there was a minute left on the clock this has to work they have to execute this and what was so brilliant sitting in the stadium was that Elliot Daley

who went on the peeling run round to get onto the little slip past the right to dart through the gap had only just come on the field relatively recently as a sub so he was in a bright white kit compared to a lot of the other muddy shirts and the blue shirts around him so from where we were sitting at the far end of the stadium you just saw this shining figure of white making this sort of looping run and seconds before he got the ball you thought if they time this right he's in here in this place He's gonna go nuts

And then obviously I saw I saw that commentary from Chris and Matt on the com cam on the social medias and it was It's it it sounded as good as the experience was in the stadium Did you just say that Chris was standing next to Matt so he was sitting but he stood up I think because of the excitement of the moment so there is room. It's an amazing commentary But I think he said that to you last week didn't he that Twickenham is the best commentary position they get I have actually commentated at Twickenham I've done a little bit of rugby and it is it's incredible because that's interesting about you two when I do the

odd game for match of the day I stand to do the commentary yeah when I do it commentary for the radio I always sit sit. I would sit down. For both? Always, yeah. Yeah. This is a bit like Greg James' feature, sit down, stand up. Isn't it?

But I would, sometimes if on those occasions, if I've turned up and it is, as you say, you know, on match of the day, where they've sort of set it up for you to stand up, the problem is I would have my notes in my hand. I wouldn't want my, if you stand up, I can't have the notes on the desk. I wouldn't be able to see them.

Yeah, I mean the thing is, is that when you are sitting down, for most people, for our very own Mr. Verticality, you would be standing up for most people, wouldn't you? When you're sitting down. Well, the standing up thing being away from the desk is less of an issue for me. If there's room to stand up, and if it gives me a better view, I don't mind standing up. I quite like being able to sort of move about and point and that sort of thing.

But in our commentary positions, particularly in the Premier League, I can't think of one where you, you know, our TV colleagues are often on gantries where there's lots of space, but we don't really have the space to stand up. I have too many things going on on the desk to stand up, I would say. Yeah, well, I definitely agree with that. And also, Ali, while you were, had your feet up at Twickenham, you know, we have had quite an intense week, haven't we, Ian? Well, you have. Well, you have had quite an intense week, haven't we, Ian? Well, you have.

Well, you have. We all have. Yes. I mean, I said on Wednesday night that it was a night for the senses with you at Goodison and I was at Celtic Park. But of course, you'd had the dramatic night at the Etty had on the Tuesday. That's right. And I mean, the atmosphere, as I often say, when I listen to you on a Saturday afternoon,

if I'm traveling to the ground in the car, one thing I really love is the different sounds of the different grounds. And I think now more than ever, on if it's digital radio in the car, for example, I think that really comes across, it's so atmospheric and it sounds so different when you're crossing from ground to ground to ground

during the commentary at three o'clock on a Saturday afternoon. But similarly, I think for anyone who's listening on Wednesday night who got the sound of Goodison Park and the sound of Celtic Park, you know, that surely will have come across. And that is where radio absolutely excels, doesn't it? In terms of if you're a television viewer, you'll pick a game and watch a game, you can be with us you can be at both venues can't you get you get the full gamut that's why I was found quite weird about doing a match of the day commentary

on the rare occasions I do it is that you feel so divorced from all the other football that's going on don't you whereas when we do a commentary and particularly in Saturday three o'clock but it's the same for any commentary we do we're always bringing in the other scores and other sports and everything. And I really like that sort of telling the story in the round.

And I once got a piece of advice in my early days before I did a couple of match of the days. And that was never ever to refer to anything that's happening anywhere else. Which does make sense, of course, because when it's being broadcast on a Saturday night, anything could have happened somewhere else. You simply don't know.

But what you've said there, Ali, is why I prefer when it comes to the golf, listening to you guys on the golf, than watching it on the television. Because on the television they go from one green to the next green to the next green. And you never get a true appreciation apart from obviously the when they show the leaderboard. But the main thing is, is that when you're listening to five live during the Ryder Cup or the open, you get a sense of what's happening with every put. You know exactly where you are. And I think that's that to me is why I think the golf coverage is fab.

And people always think you listen to the golf rather than watch it. But you know what's going on all the time. It's a bit like the promotion relegation things when we get into those situations, when the title is effectively won, isn't it? It's like one of my book bears, isn't it? The as live table, you know, well, they're now fourth. They're not fourth, the match hasn't finished yet. They're only fourth when the match finishes.

They will go fourth if it finishes like this. But it's also one of those moments isn't it because we, although they do have big screens up on the golf courses, they won't always be showing what you want it to show. So your math has got to be on point. You've got to be across everything. And it's one of those ones that always terrifies me that you're double checking and triple checking your maths before you make a massive call on air that this putt could effectively clinch the Ryder Cup. I even get, I don't know about you Ian, I even get like it in penalty shootouts, even

when I've written down my grid. You know when one team suddenly misses a couple of penalties and you're thinking to yourself, hang on a sec, whereas at home sometimes when you're not thinking about commentary, I'm thinking why hasn't the commentator said if he scores this they're through But I'm always double checking triple checking. I'm so worried about getting that wrong Yeah penalty shootouts do worry. I tell you what used to send me cold was the the away goals rule and I've I've got history with with I once made a massive massive clanger So Legion I see we're once playing Sparta at Moscow, you wait for cup tie, they'd won two-one in the first leg,

they win the second leg, one-nil, Lucas Radaby header in front of the cop. So I'm thinking there's another extra time, another 30 minutes of extra time, but there's not. And so people are going outside the ground, listening to radio leads, that those who are picking them up say, no, get back in, radio leads are saying,

another half an hour our commentary is piped into the concourse or it was at ellen road at the time people are leaving turning around going back in leads united as a football club actually phoned radio leads to tell him will you tell him to stop doing what he's doing to my horror the next day eventually the penny did drop

eddie grey called me the next day i'm the penny did drop. Eddie Gray called me the next day. I'm in the office. Eddie phones me up. Ian, great commentary last night. Thanks Eddie. No, no, no, you really, you really got the flavour of the atmosphere, it was brilliant. Thanks Eddie. It's a shame you don't know the effing rules. But also we turn up the weekend to do, because they were playing naturally on the Sunday because it was UEFA Cup tie. Saturday at Thorp Arch, Eddie drags me into David O'Leary's office and makes me listen to the commentary again. Oh, it's embarrassing. The Yorkshire

Post, the Yorkshire Post the following day did a story, they think it's all over, it's not now. I mean, so the away goals rule absolutely used to send me cold with fear. We must do it at some point and probably not got time for it today, a Clangers episode because it's just made me think of two I've done in my career. One at the Olympics and one at the Ryder Cup which John knows full well but the Ryder Cup one does take quite a lot of telling. It wasn't actually what I said, it was what I did at the Ryder Cup, but I think we're going to have to have a Clangers episode at some point.

You know, you said last week Ian about how we had eight consecutive days of cup commentaries. I feel as though I was very lucky in the matches that I had at Birmingham City, Aston Villa, Manchester City and Goodison Park, which were four really atmospheric and different experiences. And I see that we've got an email from Rob in New Zealand, which I guess will apply to the great glossary of football commentary. But he refers to the match at Birmingham city, where he says,

just catching up with the FA cup and heard something that immediately thought met the criteria for the glossary when referring to the a water goal for Birmingham against Newcastle. I'm not sure who said that. I don't think I said this, but whoever said it said he hit it and it stayed hit that is very much a phrase for the glossary isn't it I've definitely said that would would you say that another would you say that in golf do you think John hit it and stayed no you wouldn't really unless it now it's football isn't it yeah yeah when you listened last week how did you agree that and I know we've got a lot of

listeners in the States but that verticality didn't make it into the football glossary? Yeah, that was rightly dismissed. I've heard it used and I think I know what it means, a team playing, well to my mind it means a team playing directly, hitting the long ball and getting up and down the pitch quickly. That's how I would understand it, but I would never use it. I don't think that can go in our glossary.

And what about the exciting development as well? Because not only do we have tcv at bbc.co.uk, we now have a football daily WhatsApp number for you to send voice notes to. I wasn't expecting that Ian. Well. Have you got one of those on the fantasy podcast Ali we don't John we have an email address we don't know we don't know why is that happened well maybe the popularity of this part well I was gonna say the fluctuating fortunes is anyone going to get in touch that way is what that is

something that would happen they know what They won't unless they read out the number. Okay. So you can make contact through WhatsApp on the Football Daily and the number is 08000 289 369. 08000 289 369. And I'm hearing we actually do have a voice note to play in to this week's podcast. So here it comes. Our first ever voice note on the commentators view comes from Solomon. Hi, John and ABB.

I hope you are all well. I'd like to suggest the phrase last chance saloon to be inducted into the great glossary of football commentary. This term is often used in the dying embers of a match when a team has one last chance to launch a long throw, corner or free kick into the box in the hope of a late equaliser or winner. Love the pod, keep up the terrific work. All the best. There we go. Wow. I mean, yeah, you don't get any more authentic than that. Last chance

saloon. I love last chance, I love last chance saloon. I remember coming out with a line and I only remember it, well, A, I was quite pleased with it but also Jonathan Overend and I think Neil Harmon at the time sent me a message saying you know, very well done but you remember when Derby really struggled in the Premier League, worst side in Premier League history, on the last day of the season, they were playing Reading and Reading had to win to try and stay up. So I said, Reading are in the last chance saloon, but playing Derby, it's the equivalent of happy hour.

Very good. But that's one of those old style newspaper football reporting phrases that has sort of crept into football, well crept into football commentary, it's been a part of football commentary for a long time hasn't it? But you'd never ever talk about drinking in the last chance saloon would you? And I wouldn't know whether anyone's ever had a drink in the last chance saloon while they have been walking a disciplinary tightrope. That's another one I love, John, because you're right.

In everyday language you would never talk about walking a disciplinary tightrope, would you? But what that conveys is, you know, you could say in commentary, he's got to be careful now because he's got five yellow cards, he gets another one, he's banned for two games. But walking a disciplinary tightrope just deals with it, doesn't it? Just everyone knows what you're talking about and it does conjure up that lovely image of the high wire balancing act that you've got to be careful so I love both of those.

I'm not averse to throwing in a yellow peril. I've not used that before. He's experiencing? There are a number of players on yellow peril. On yellow peril. Yeah. Pete in Cheshire's got in touch as well. If this actually connects, guys, John, I have to say well done to you.

I know you didn't get a point for it, but Clash of the Commentators last week, I thought was classic. I thought you and Jackie both played really well on the suffixes. I thought that was a great category. And to rattle off 11 as quickly as you did was very impressive. Pete in Cheshna gets in touch. It meant nothing though.

It meant nothing exactly. Pete says, as a Crew Alexandra fan, I've always felt an affinity with the other unique suffix clubs like Argyle and Wednesday. After FA Cup weekend, can I submit an all-Premier League affair to the glossary? I'm not sure what makes it an affair, but it seems to be a popular turn of phrase. And if you look at the fifth round draw, Bournemouth Wolves, Manchester United, Fulham, Newcastle Brighton, Nottingham Forest against Ipswich, all Premier League affairs. And of course, if we down the line in the FA Cup this season end up with a Manchester United Manchester City FA Cup tie that could be the small matter of the all Premier League affair

between the two Manchester clubs. I'm quite pleased by the way that the small matter seems to have snowballed a little. I've now heard Lee Blakeman use the small matter which definitely had come from our conversations. Are you suggesting the small matter is now a big matter? I am. Yeah it's the small matter snowballed. Talking of Manchester City it's only right we bring up this suggestion from Chris who's a Plymouth Argyle fan's a Plymouth Argyle fan, but a Plymouth Argyle fan in Doncaster. Hi guys, how about the use of the term whipping boys as an entry?

I can't think of any other use of this term in normal day to day conversation, except with reference to football and specifically in football commentary. I guess my beloved Argyle would have been considered possible whipping boys last Sunday against Liverpool but hey the rest is history. Well I've got to say I do use the whipping boys and in fact I've used it in the Champions League a number of times regarding Slovan Bratislava who have been very much the whipping boys during that league phase. I think you might have called young young boys have done the whipping boys as well didn't you?

The young boys are the whipping boys? Yeah I thought I heard you say have called young young boys have done the whipping boys as well. Didn't you the young boys are the whipping boys? Yeah, I thought I heard you say that I mean for it to get into the glossary and I think it's probably going in there But it's would you use that in any other walk of life the whipping boys other than football commentary I mean you might use in I don't know cricket or the other sports, but I doubt it Yeah, so that was another example Ian then of someone getting in touch on 08000 289 369 and sending us a voice note. And tcv at bbc.co.uk is still very much in use. Right, Clash of the Commentators focus back on the league after that exhibition match between John and Jackie last week. John, you were the winner last time out so you can take the reins. Yes, so I didn't get a point from last week, which is not rankling at all and will not be mentioned at all again further down the line.

And so the leaderboard currently involving us three, Ali is top with four points from six. I've got three points from six. And Ian, you're still bottom of the table with two points from six. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Well, who knows where the end of this marathon is going to actually come. So who is going to go first?

And we should remind anyone who's listening for the first time. and of course there are lots of other The Commentators View podcasts that you can go back and listen to on BBC Sounds now. But what happens here is, clash of the commentators, I'm going to give Ian and Ali a category and you have to give me as many reasonable answers as you can within 30 seconds. So who's going to go first this week? In my last game which is on Premier League footballers that have played in

the Saudi Pro League I went first so I'm gonna let Ian go first today if you want to Ian. That's very kind. I've just looked at the question this is an interesting one this is gonna test you. So Ali has unplugged. Have you? Yes. He's come here. He's gone. He is gone. So Ian, I hope your mind is sharp for this one. So here we go. Well, here we go. After good as some parks, final Merseyside Derby ended with four red cards. I want you to name any player to have been sent off in Premier League matches between Everton and Liverpool this fixture has seen more dismissals than any other fixture in Premier League history there are 23 possible answers

your time starts now well the Corey Jones slots three Slot three. Hmm. Skirtle. Gerard. I'm trying to think. Jimmy Case have been won. I'll throw in a Pat Van Den Hau. I'm just going to guess.

Sammy Lee. Oh, this is tough. Kevin Ratcliffe-McMahon. That was tough. That was a really hard question that. Unfortunately as well you named a few that were pre-92. Was it Premier League? Yeah, Premier League. Oh I didn't focus on that. I went a lot pre-1992. You did. And also they were just players. Yeah, obviously.

Don't say anything else. Ali's back. Hello. Okay, right. Well, I hope you are ready and raring because I think this is possibly the hardest question that we've asked. So I'm very pleased to be the one who's asking the questions. And the question is, after Goodison Park's final Merseyside derby ended in four red cards, I want you to name any player to have been sent off in Premier League matches between Everton and Liverpool. This fixture has seen more dismissals than any other fixture in Premier League history. There are 23 possible answers. Your time starts now. I thought it was gonna be red cards this season. Gerrard, Carragher, Ferguson, Ashley Young could be a hothead. Who else might have got sent? I was David

Unsworth, Leighton Baines, I'm just chucking loads of names out here. Louis Suarez, Sammy Hoopia, I'm just totally guessing it. Who else would have put a challenger in midfield? Xavi Alonso, Fernando Torres. You hit some targets with your scatter gun approach. I've never commentated live on a Merseyside Derby. No, I've never. So that's never happened in front of me. There's not one I could pick on. I mean, Gerrard must have done. Well, I said Gerrard, but the reason I floundered Ali is that I hadn't focused on the bit when

crucially, Jonathan said, I hope your mind's sharp. And I said, it's never sharp. But I missed the bit where he said the Premier League. So I threw in Pat Vanden Haas, Kevin Radcliffe, Steve McMahon. I thought you were going to go back to Billy Liddell at one stage. I think the other scores in, I'm just waiting to hear if the scores have been confirmed and the news is that it finished Ian Dennis three Alistair Bruce Ball three. No way. Yes. Well I didn't think I'd even got three I was half expecting it so what happens now yeah half point Ryder cap half point I think no points what a point each yes certainly not getting a point each I'm vetoing that this is gonna go to VAR I'm just

hearing some guidance yeah what about there's a tie breaker. Oh, there's a tie breaker. That sounds okay. You can feel the tension. Okay. The tie breaker is a tie breaker question and you have to shout out the answer. So fingers on the buzzers. So the tie breaker question is the first one of you to name one of the goal scorers from Wednesday. James Tarkovsky. Alistair Bruce Ball gets it. Very good. I actually think Ali's suggestion of a half point is actually better.

Yeah, it's too late. I thought your suggestion of a point actually, didn't I, to be fair? No, I didn't agree with that. So that's it, Ali gets the point. So that's Ali with a clear lead now at the top with five points from seven Then I am in second place in the table with three points from six And ian denis is bottom of the table remains rooted to the bottom of the table with two points from seven Are you able john to tell us our three correct answers each there?

Can you remember from what we just... Uh, Ali's correct answers were David Unsworth, Ashley Young who you described as a hothead, and Stephen Gerrard. Okay, and and Iain's? I'd gone Gerrard, Ducoury, and uh also... Jones. Jones.

Oh my god, I didn't even think the two that got sent off. Yes. That is... And also named Arna Slott, who, unless my eyes were deceiving me, didn't actually play in the game. It was the question was players. Yeah. Well, John, you may not be that interested in this, but in the world of fantasy football that's been quite an interesting one because they now have an assistant manager chip in the game where you get to pick a manager for a week of fantasy football or for three weeks of fantasy football but normally if a player gets sent off in a game it's minus three points and they get suspended but the manager chip you don't get any minus points and they don't

get suspended so controversial goings on in the world of FPL. When you said I may be interested in that. I wasn't. And just for the record this is the list. Mikhael Arteta, Milan Barros, Igor Bishchan, Tim Cahill, Abdoulaye Dukure, Robbie Fowler, Ramiro Funes Mori, I think that might have caught a few out, Stephen Gerard, Thomas Graverson, Tony Hibbert, Francis Jeffers, Curtis Jones, Sotirios Kyriakos, Gary Naismith, Phil Neville, Steven Pienaar, Richarlison, Jack Rodwell, David Unsworth,

Andy Van Damida, David Weir, Sander Westerveld and Ashley Young. And actually just related to the clash of commentators, the question this week, we did have a great glossary suggestion from Jonathan who says the phrase, no love lost between these two. Jonathan says, not sure in any other circumstances where this is a common description for players and clubs or organizations dislike of each other. Uh, it's not as if supermarkets or insurance firms go up against each other in this way.

No love lost between Sainsbury's and Morrison's is there. Very good. Very good. Yeah. I like that. I mean, you, you would use that in other sports, definitely, you know, like a tennis rivalry or boxing or whatever, but yeah, that's good. That's good. That's good. Morrison's and Asda would be the equivalent of a Yorkshire derby in the supermarket world,

wouldn't it? The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. Vincent Company is a Premier League legend. Goal from the Manchester City captain. They'll remember that for years and years and years. And now he's an up and coming head coach who's had a meteoric rise. From under-elect, promotion and relegation with Burnley to being appointed at one of the biggest clubs in world football.

Ryan Munich have confirmed the appointment of Vincent Kompany. It feels like Kompany is the golden boy in football management right now. And I want to find out why. He's been a trailblazer quite a lot of his life, quite a lot of his career. This is Football Daily, Vincent company, The Golden Boy. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. The goal count for 2025 then with the golden Mike. Ali Bruce Ball 22 from nine was 2.5 per game now 2.44.

I'm 35 from 14 so I stay at 2.5 per game and John Murray 63 from 16 which has now increased your goal ratio to 3.94. You're a goal magnet. I am aren't I? I have seen some goals over the course of the last few months. Just to point out Ali, that does not include the goals that he witnessed at the Merseyside Derby in midweek. Even though I was commentating off air as we say. That was a reporting game John. I've watched too much Manchester United recently that's my problem there's not many goals in those games I need to get some

fixtures that are going to bag me goals although I'm not working this week you boys are going to be busy again this weekend because I've still got some time off this is all accrued from last summer so from doing Olympics and Euros and open golf or whatever I'm actually not working again this weekend so you boys must be busy. What's coming up Ian, what's coming up over the weekend? Manchester City Newcastle is the 3 o'clock commentary on 5 Live and BBC Sounds, the usual goal service, I'll be alongside Chris Sutton. John is off

to Selhurst Park, albeit on the train, Crystal Palace Everton with Mark Schwartzer, 5.30 on Saturday. That might reduce my goal average. And Mark Schwartzer escapes Portman Road as well. He does. Liverpool Wolves on Sunday, John Akers and Stephen Warnock, Tottenham Manchester United. Now that should have a few goals. Sunday 4.30 and then Tuesday Bayern Munich Celtic, Real Madrid Manchester City on the Wednesday, which I would imagine will have further goals for you, John. Yes, I would in the very much. I might not see too many goals at Crystal Palace Everton. Maybe events will prove me to be wrong there, maybe,

but I suspect I'll definitely see goals, Real Madrid Manchester City. And another reflection of last week, incidentally, I was thinking was, what a contrast that was Tuesday night watching the Champions League, Manchester City and Real Madrid compared to what was a true Merseyside derby. And, you know, the passion and the spirit and everything. As I said on Wednesday night that match I think could have come out of any time of Merseyside derbies.

But both of those games John listening to them and listening to your reports and your commentary were exactly what you wanted them to be what you hoped they would be and they turned out to be exactly that I mean it was such that was such a ding-dong tussle wasn't it on the Tuesday in a different ding-dong tussles played out in completely different ways. The only thing that disappointed me about the Champions League Tuesday night was Real Madrid in orange. Los Blancos. Los Oranjos. Los Aranchas. No, no, no, no, no, Aranjas. Yeah, but no, two great games, great games, great atmosphere, really enjoyed that. I think Ian, we're expecting aren't we, great games, great atmosphere, really enjoyed that.

But I think, Ian, we're expecting, aren't we, that we'll be witnessing, when you're in Germany and I'm in Spain, I think we'll be witnessing the champions of Scotland and the champions of England both being knocked out of the competition before the last 16. I would think so, yes. I think they've both got a very, very tall order to get through to the last 16. I think Celtic ideally needed to win that the other night and they finished strongly but Bayern Munich showed their quality and Harry Kane showed his love for scoring goals on Valentine's weekend in Glasgow. And I think with

Manchester City I think if it was this time last year and it was this tie and Manchester City were what they were then, I think one nailed a goal down going to the Bernabeu, I think you would have thought well, I think there's a chance. But I think they've just taken so many hits to the morale that I really am struggling to be able to make a case for them getting through this. Talking of taking hits to the morale what do you think about Ange-Poster Coglu and Tottenham Manchester United at the weekend? Yeah well listen at Villa Park last Sunday night I actually sat in on his press conference and that was the

one where he where he made the very strong case if you remember I don't know whether you heard it or saw it you know about how no other club has had to put up with losing so many important players for such a long period of time. People can judge me. They can say I've done a bad job. That's fine. I'm not up to it or whatever. What I'm saying is you can't be critical of players and players' performance during this time. Because if you do, then be as critical of other clubs

when they've got nine or ten, eleven players out. None of them have. They have to play every week not just for one game we've been doing this for the last since the middle of November. I would disagree with that by the way I heard him say that yeah I thought it was good but sitting there listening to the whole thing I actually thought you know what that's quite a persuasive argument and I you know I agree with Ian and that virtually every club that that we've seen has had to had to deal with lengthy lists of injuries.

But he was making the point, you know, that he was saying no other club has had to play the same group of players for two and a half months. That was the point he was making and saying that the net result of that is what you're seeing. I've seen, I mean, Son is a shadow of himself at the moment, and even Kulasevski was not at the level that he has been, and I'm guessing that Ange Postocogli was saying, that's the effect of them having to play midweek weekend, midweek weekend. I mean, Bournemouth and Brentford,

through the course of the season, have had a number of injury problems, not far off the numbers, I would guess, of Tottenham, speaking off the top of my head, but sometimes you wonder about, they play the same way regardless and you wonder as a coach should he adapt more? Well he did adapt, didn't he, for the second leg of the semi-final. Look where that got them. Adapted though successfully in the Premier League win at Brentford because that wasn't

a sort of typical Poster Cogoglu performance and got a result there. The thing I'd say on Bournemouth Ian, because that's just taken me back to the Bournemouth 5 Nottingham Forest nil, which was the day that Iriola had 12 fit senior outfield players. So the only one who came off the bench who you could class as a first-team regular and he was on his way back from injury was Tavonir who came on and does make a difference. The only thing I'd say the difference there is they're the 12 players that he would want fit. It's basically his first choice 11 at that point that was fit and Tottenham haven't

had, Postococcal has not had that and I do take his point, John's point on having watched them recently about just how much it's taken out of them playing the same players again and again and again in all the competitions. But I guess that also goes back to, I mean I know once you get a certain number of injuries then it's very difficult to cope with, but it's about building a squad, isn't it, and signing players and you know when so much of Tottenham's play is predicated on Mickey van de Ven's pace at the back, as soon as he gets injured you've not got someone that can do that job in that squad, that's a problem if you're going to keep playing the way that Tottenham keep playing.

So that's actually about sort of squad preparation and building. The other thing is, Tottenham Manchester United at the weekend 14-13, that could be the Europa League final this season, couldn't it and that that really is well, sorry Manchester United are still in the FA Cup aren't they but for Tottenham that is that is last chance saloon John Europa League Yes, I did I did hear someone say well, you know, obviously the phrase was well now because of where they landed and in the draw They can't meet until the final but I heard someone say but of course they can't meet in the final either because they're not good enough it was harsh what a withering put down yes that's what I thought yeah yeah what he for him jump I do yeah I do and I've got more sympathy for him now that

you talk about him changing the approach of the way that the team play I've got more sympathy for him now because he's actually changed his approach rather in what he says after matches in that he is it you know he is now explaining more he's not being quite so prickly and he is now explaining you know I felt that was quite informative what he said the other evening rather than you know the kind of bristling responses that he's had over a period of time before that. But what if you plugged in Iriola or Marco Silva or Thomas Frank or Glasner or Herzler at Tottenham or at Manchester United at the same time that Postokoglu and Amerim have come in

would they find similar difficulties? Would we be talking about them? I mean, I know that's a complete unknowable, it's a complete unknowable, but they're rightly getting applauded for doing a fantastic job with their teams this season. But are the problems at Tottenham and at Manchester United sort of off the field around the club?

What makes it so blooming difficult to manage those clubs? Yeah, I agree with that. I posed that question to René Mullenstein the other week because if you think back when Glasner first came in at Crystal Palace, you know that Crystal Palace had been regimented under Roy that they'd worked with a back four and yet he switched them to a back three and he had more or less an instant impact didn't he in the new system that he'd altered there at Selhurst Park. And so when Ameren came in and went to three at the back and Manchester United didn't quite have the

immediate effect, I said to René Mullenstein, why? Because realistically you'd think better players at Manchester United and we always get told players can play in any system. Why is it not working at Old Trafford when they wanna go with three at the back? And yet it did for another manager who went with three at the back at Selhurst Park. And he said, time. Glasner has had that time to work on the training field

because they're not playing in Europe. But as you look at Manchester United and their schedule, they're, you know, very little training time. They're just playing recovering playing recovering And so I do now wonder if I'm a rim has been sold a bit of a putt by the hierarchy United by the fact that Have they got rid of ten hog at the end of the season and then brought in Ameren then and had a completely Full preseason to work with the players whether Manchester

United would then be in a better situation than they are now and so to give Ameren the chance of working the summer to get his ideas across when he's got that precious commodity of time. One thing I'd say about Crystal Palace this weekend and Oliver Glasner is I very much hope he's going to be wearing one of his North Sea Trollermen jumpers. That will please me greatly. If he does, he'll be all over that. I will be all over that. And Ian, you might, even though I've now seen him play,

I think three or four times for Manchester City and he hasn't scored yet, you might actually get the first chance to commentate on a Marmouch goal. Marmouch, do I have to emphasize the mouche? Well, speaking of Marmouche slightly, loosely, we actually had an email about mousse as well, didn't we? Have you got that in front of you?

This was about you and Chris Sutton, because you're working together, Ian, and the last time that you worked together, there was a cheesecake episode. So the last time Ian Dennis and Chris Sutton were together was at Aston Villa Celtic when Chris posted photos on social media of Ian eating a cheesecake which brings us on to this from Malcolm in Manchester. Love the podcast from listening to John Murray talking about chocolate mousse to see posts from Chris Sutton about how long it takes Ian to eat a cheesecake. It got me thinking about which club does the best hospitality. Do you have favorite grounds

to go to due to culinary delights on offer? I have to say Ian in your defense, Chris Sutton is very unfair on that front because if you're ever, I find on a trip with Chris Sutton abroad, major tournament, whatever, he has a sweet tooth. He's the one who always says, you know, we're going to have a coffee, sit down, do you want a dessert? And I'm like, no, I'm all right. I don't, I don't want one. And then forces you into eating a dessert, then films it, then posts it and has a, you know, has a pop at you for, for unhealthy eating habits. It's terrible. It is, although I've got to confess that we once did a game at the Euros, uh, when it

was at Wembley. So that would have been Euro 2020 but in 2021 and I filmed him eating a banana I thought I'm gonna I want to play you your own game so I've still got that on my phone I realized when he saw me devour the cheesecake rather than a mousse that and it wasn't my mousse that I knew exactly what he was doing but hey ho. What about Malcolm's question then? Favourite grounds due to culinary delights on offer? We are very fortunate I think aren't we with our travels where we go to what we get to eat at times. Tottenham's got to be up there hasn't it?

Probably Tottenham would get my vote at the moment. They do tend to vie against one another, the top clubs don't they, on the culinary front but I think probably Tottenham have got their noses in front at the moment. Arsenal consistently good for a long time and I always thought were one of the first ones to get really good. What are you laughing at John? It's been suggested to me perhaps for the North London rivals there's no love lost between the caterers. Yeah the battle of the whatever. Buffet? Yeah. Chelsea great range, I mean great range. You know it's always a spread isn't there of whether you want hot cold deli, you know

Whatever, but I've got to say I still you know I still think back to the days of when I used to cover Bristol Rovers a pasty at the Memorial Stadium or a pie at Millmore pies at Rotherham. Oh, they were so good. Well talking of pies Hair Chapman I think was trying to do a little bit of skullduggery last week. He was trying to get me, or someone was trying to get me to pose. The Wigan mascot is Krusty the Pie. And someone was trying to get me to pose for a photo with Mr. Krusty the Pie.

And I said, you've got no chance. Who was trying to get you to pose for the photo? Well, Gary the producer was given the task, but I'm not too sure whether it was our producer, Claire, on the Saturday or whether it was Hare Chapman or indeed one of the editors, Simon Faux. But there was somebody who was desperate for me to pose with this Krusty the Pie

and I thought you'd got no chance. However, you won't be surprised to know that our offerings at the Brick Community Stadium were indeed a pie, just a pie. However, when it comes to going to Scotland, give me a pie any day of the week. I mean, you can't beat a Keeley pie for a start. The Keeley pies are sensational. However, the pie at Celtic on Wednesday at half time, that didn't last seven seconds, I can tell you. Right chaps, I think that's us almost done this week. We're gonna round things up with a final little voice note so this

is the new thing that's come to the podcast this week. If you want to send us a voice note questions, thoughts, whatever you want 08000 289 369. So this voice note comes from Sean and I'm told it's a slightly unusual request. I want to propose that a phrase is removed from the commentator's glossary. I'm specifically thinking in relation to penalty kicks, he sent the goalkeeper the wrong way because as far as I can see that never happens. The goalkeeper chooses to dive one way or the other

or sometimes the penalty taker will try and wait until the goalkeeper makes a move but he doesn't actually do anything to send the goalkeeper one way or the other or am I missing something? So Sean sent us that email about PKs on Tuesday morning and then what happened live on 5Live on Tuesday night? Erling Haaland to put Manchester City back into the lead. Haaland thinks about it then left-footed. Sans Courtois the wrong way! So that was Haaland against Real Madrid. John on commentary. This is an age old, I've heard this one discussed before.

What are your feelings on this one John? I do get Sean's point there. I do get Sean's point and I think maybe we need to just say the goalkeeper's gone the wrong way. Yeah, but also, you know, a lot of penalty takers will run at the ball and try and fool a goalkeeper. They're waiting for the goalkeeper to go and how they should, I mean, a lot of penalty takers will run at the ball and try and fool a goalkeeper. They're waiting for the goalkeeper to go. And how they show, I mean, I thought that Harlan penalty was really clever because you

think he's going to whip that one across his body with his left foot to the low right-hand corner as he looks at it and he opens his body up at the end and puts it the other side. So in a way you're playing with the keeper there. I don't know. Semantics. I still think though it's got to stay in the glossary because it's a term that is used. So therefore, even, you're right, it is semantics,

but on that basis, because it's used, I think it's got to stay in the glossary. I read a good one this week about goalkeepers being sent the wrong way or whether they guess. You know, when Bromley were in the playoff final to get into the league last season and it went to a penalty shootout, the Bromley goalkeeper, as all goalkeepers do now,

had the details written on the water bottle of which way they should dive, depending on which player it was. But the Bromley goalkeeper said in that playoff final, when the players were walking towards him, he wasn't necessarily sure who they were and their numbers were not on their shorts. So they were walking towards him.

He had his water bottle, but he didn't know who it was. You know, he wasn't a hundred percent sure who it was walking forward. And they worked out a system that the players on the half way line would put their fingers up in the air to show which shirt number it was which player was coming to take the penalty. Which did make me laugh. If Sean is trying to take that out of the glossary and as you say it, it's just in the

football vernacular I mean Sean's looking at a root and branch review there isn't it which I think sir Is another one that you get in sport? Don't you the root and branch review? Yeah, that's that a rooted branch review is is when they've torn up The the original plan and have a root and branch review when England lose Five-nil in a test series in Australia that will then follow a root and branch review when England lose 5-0 in a test series in Australia. We'll then follow a root and branch review. Well what we could do, we could leave it to the listener to decide. They could either contact us through the voice note 08000 289369 or just a simple email through tcv at bbc.co.uk and let us know. I think it should remain. You

too? Yeah, I do. I get Sean's point but yeah. The next episode of the Football Daily will be in focus with Graham Potter and if you've missed any episodes of the Commentator's View you can find them all on the Football Daily feed. Los Blancos? Yeah, Los Oranjos. Yeah, Los Aranchas. you can find them all on the Football Daily Feed. Los Blancos. Yeah, Los Oranjos.

Yeah, Las Oranchas. Las Oranjas. What does it take to go racing in the fastest cars in the world? Oscar Piastri. Your head's trying to get rid of one way, your body's trying to go another. Lance Stroll. It's very extreme in the sense of how close you're racing wheel to wheel. We've been given unprecedented access to two of the most famous names in Formula One, McLaren and Aston Martin.

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