Football Daily - The Commentators' View: Let’s go racing, John Hunt…

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

John Hunt joins John Murray & Ian Dennis to talk about life as a racing commentator. How does he do it? What are the best commentary positions and quirks of the job? And can a flutter affect your game? Plus more unintended pub names and the Great Glossary of Football Commentary, and Mark Chapman’s been listening to the pod! Messages, questions and voicenotes on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]00:55 John Hunt fresh from the Winter Olympics, 09:05 FA Cup & Champions League commentaries, 14:45 Mark Chapman in mischievous mood… 20:15 Listening experiences on the radio… 25:15 John Hunt on how to do horse racing commentary, 36:25 Racing commentary positions & using binoculars, 42:00 Can a flutter affect your commentary? 48:00 Unintended pub names, 51:40 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Fri 2000 Wolves v Liverpool with Conor McNamara & Clinton Morrison, Sat 1230 England women v Iceland on Sports Extra with Vicki Sparks & Rachel Brown-Finnis, Sat 1700 Scotland v Luxembourg via BBC Radio Scotland on Sports Extra 3, Sat 1745 Wrexham v Chelsea with JOHN MURRAY & Chris Sutton on Sports Extra, Sat 2000 Newcastle v Man City with IAN DENNIS & Rachel Corsie, Sun 1200 Fulham v Southampton via BBC Radio London on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1300 Rangers v Celtic via BBC Radio Scotland on Sports Extra 3, Sun 1330 Port Vale v Sunderland with John Acres & Andy Reid, Sun 1630 Leeds v Norwich with Eilidh Barbour & Paul Robinson, Mon 1930 West Ham v Brentford with Vicki Sparks & Glenn Murray.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, No-look pass, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep. DIVISION TWO 2-0 can be a dangerous score, Back on the grass, Ball stays hit, Beaten all ends up, Blaze over the bar, Business end, Came down with snow on it, Catching practice, Camped in the opposition half, Cauldron atmosphere Coat is on a shoogly peg, Come back to haunt them, Corridor of uncertainty, Couldn’t sort their feet out, Easy tap-in, Daisy-cutter, First cab off the rank, Giant-killing, Good leave, Good touch for a big man, Half-turn, Has that in his locker, High wide and not very handsome, Hospital pass, Howler, In the dugout, In the hat, In their pocket, Johnny on the spot, Leading the line, Leather a shot, Middle of the park, Needed no second invitation, Nice headache to have, Nutmeg, On their bike, One for the cameras, One for the purists, Played us off the park, Points to the spot, Prawn sandwich brigade, Purple patch, Put their laces through it, Queensbury rules, Reaches for their pocket, Rolls Royce, Root and branch review, Row Z, Screamer, Seats on the plane, Show across the bows, Slide-rule pass, Staving off relegation, Steal a march, Straight in the bread basket, Stramash, Taking one for the team, Telegraphed that pass, Tired legs, That’s great… (football), Thunderous strike, Turns on a sixpence, Walk it in, We’ve got a cup tie on our hands.

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And all the bizarre ways people are using. the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Commentators view on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, this is the Football Daily. I'm John Murray and this is the commentator's view where we five live commentators talk about the football, where it takes us and the words we use in football commentary. Ian Dennis is here.

Hello, Ian. Hello. Good morning. It is not just football, is it, this week? Because we have a special guest on the commentator's view this week, ahead of next week's Cheltenham Festival. It is the BBC Racing Commentator John Hunt. Welcome to the commentator's view, John.

Thank you very much indeed, John. I feel like I'm a sleepy little carabag slipping alongside Rail Madrid and Manchester City. Very good. And of course, you are recently, back from the Winter Olympics, aren't you? Yeah, that was fantastic, really good. The mountains of the Dolomites, yeah,

soon to be exchanged for Cleave Hill. So, yeah, that's the way, that's the rhythm and the world we work in, isn't it? So, yeah, had a wonderful time. It was obviously fantastic to see the British strike gold in the two sliding events, worked with some tremendous people, met some tremendous people, ate some tremendous pasta.

It was really good. I've got to say, John, I've been so excited to have you on this podcast, almost as excited as Cheltenham Festival itself next week. But regarding the Winter Olympics, how many of you done now? That was my third. I'd been to Pyongchang and we had to do Beijing

from a remote point in Solford, obviously with the COVID problems that existed there. But so it was lovely to be back quite literally trackside and, you know, just smell it and hear those bobsleigh's absolutely whistling by, not just that as well, but when you're actually there, you're literally bumping into some of the contenders, the coaches, family, friends,

people just having a bit of fun. You get a really immersive experience, don't you? I think that's the big thing that makes a difference. And John Murray, who was the commentator that they used to call the jeweller because he always attracted the gold medals? Because I'm now thinking... It's Mr. Alast of Bruce Ball. It was, Ali, you're right.

Yeah. But now we've got the winter... Olympics equivalent of the jeweller. Does this provoke an increased rate of pay? Well, I know the answer. If Ali were here, he'd be giving the answer, no.

I'm pretty sure about that. They also called him the burglar as well. The jeweler and the burglar, because he would burgle gold medal commentaries from other commentators. He'd arrive in at the last moment when it came to the whatever it was, the match that won the gold medal, and Ali would be

commentating on it. But in terms of the challenge of covering Olympic events. And I know obviously you've worked at the summer Olympics as well on the swimming, but to step into the events that you cover at the Winter Olympics, the work that that must take in terms of getting your head around whatever event it is that you're covering. Yeah, I sort of have to dial down my expectations. So if I was doing commentary for Martin Stucke's, the legendary Latvian slider, and it was a bespoke service I was providing him, he would be sacking me within 10 seconds, I'm sure, because he'd be discounting everything I had to say and seeing through it all. But when you just have to present

a broader picture to an occasional audience, I think the pressure's off straight away, especially when we're paired up as we are with brilliant experts in their field. I mean, I was with John Jackson for three weeks. There's nothing John doesn't know about Bob Slay in sliding per se. So I felt super. super relaxed that I could ask him anything, we could touch upon any subject, and he would have the precise reply. I didn't need to have that level of precision. I just really needed to know, I know this is stripping away to its basic terms, but I just really needed to know who was next, what was their expectation, and yeah, keep an eye on the action to make sure they didn't fall off.

And that was it really. What about the challenge of stepping across from radio to TV with the different events as well, which I know that you are used to to an extent, but it's still a challenge, isn't it? It is, I suppose. Yeah, it is. I enjoy that discipline, though. It's everything we do, although it might not sound it every single time people turn on their radios and listen to us, but everything we do is thought through, isn't it? I'm even making myself laugh about that. If I'm doing the racing, John, and I know it's, you're doing, either one of you are doing a key commentary, and it's one-one and there's 10 minutes left. If I'm told 20 seconds, there's the my time allowed to tell my little story, I know that 30 seconds is no good to anybody,

and preferably 15 seconds is better. So I like that sort of discipline, and there were similar disciplines with the TV, you know, in terms of react to, you're reacting to pictures, captions come up, don't talk over the captions for too long, that sort of thing. And on that Saturday afternoon, when you're told you've only got 20 seconds, does producer Claire bellow at you as well as me? She always asked me very politely. I must ask you as well, because you covered the ceremonies, didn't you, too, which is something that when I've done that, I've absolutely loved it.

And I know that ceremonies aren't everyone's cup of tea, if Hare Chapman is listening to this. I know he's not a huge fan, but I love a ceremony. Yeah, I've got to doff my cap to Hazel Irving. I did both the opening and closing with Hazel. we watched the dress rehearsal of the opening ceremony together during which Hazel is like an express train with her note taking she got through two or three pads of paper

and I've just got a couple of little bullet points at the top of mine you know like I'm just in awe of Hazel if she were an engineer she would have built the Eiffel Tower and the Sydney Opera House without a shadow of a doubt she's she's extraordinary so once my point is once I realized about Hazel's work ethic. I just completely relaxed. I find them quite daunting, John, to be honest with you,

in terms of what to say, when to say, when to be quiet, when to fill a gap. You know, if you've got a three-hour span, that's quite chunky. Don't talk over Andrea Boccelli, you know, whatever you do, and don't talk over Mariah Carey. You know, those sort of things are always rattling around in your brain. But Hazel just had it off to a tea. Just an amazing tour of force.

Listen, we obviously want to talk most about horse racing, don't we, Ian? That's the horse racing commentary, which we're going to do a little bit later on. There'll be no clash of the commentators this week, because we've just got too much to talk to about John, but we will be doing unintended pub names and further entries to the Great Glossary of Football Commentary. Let me say as well that we are going to be recording, aren't we, another question and answer episode

after the success of the last one, Ian. Yes, we are. So do send them into his TCV at BBC.com. com.com on the email or WhatsApp and the always popular voice notes to 08,289-389-369. So that is for the question and answer episode that we will have. You've been busy, Ian, this week, over the course of the last seven days. I was listening to it, Mullen You the other night?

I have been busy, yes. And I also did a dinner in the Northeast last Sunday in Durham, raising funds for the Sir Bobby Robinson Foundation. And we had Eddie Howe, Regis Lebris, Tony Mowbray, who I've got to say was in absolutely splendid form as he won the Sir Bobby Robinson Foundation personality of the year. But also I've got to give a mention to Matthew Smith, who raises money for himself for the initiative you care share,

and his mate Lewis, because they are avid listeners of the podcast. And I thought that, I mean, the most reassuring thing for that, John, is that we are now hitting a younger audience. I know that we had some correspondence from teenagers in Berlin and down under, but also a little bit closer to home, we've got a younger audience that are enjoying the podcast. So I thought I'd surprise them both by giving a nice little mention

to the two of them, Matthew and Lewis. Did Matthew and Lewis have anything to say about the controversial episode of The Clash of the Commentators? They did indeed and they asked me to pass a message onto you. They just said, let it go, man. Really? Yeah. Well, that's disappointing. I wonder if it would have been different if I'd been there.

I don't think it would have been. But we'll move on now. And that's brought closure. No, no, it doesn't broke closure. So we've got an exciting weekend, haven't we? the FA Cup, which I cannot wait for this weekend, because I'm going to be going to wrecks them, Rexum Chelsea.

545 kickoff on Saturday night, but I think it starts on Sports Extra because it's a Six Nations weekend this weekend as well. So all of these football commentaries you'll find on 5 Live or BBC sounds, depending on what's on the airwaves at the time, because it is an exceptionally busy weekend with the Formula 1 as well,

starting up this weekend, matches on BBC 1 as well, wolves, Liverpool, and rugby. Rexham, Chelsea, both on BBC One, and on five live, Friday night, if you happen to be listening to this on Friday, Wolves Liverpool for the second time this week, that is Connor McNamara and Clinton Morrison. Chris Sutton's going to be with me at Rexham tomorrow. Have you been to Rexham recently, Ian? I've never been to Rexham.

Well, fancy that. It's one of the few grounds of the 92 that I'm yet to go to. Yeah. And I think the same applies to me. I don't think I've been to the race course ground, unless. I went once very early on in my football reporting career. I've got vague memories, but I will know when I get there tomorrow. So if that is the case, neither you nor I have been to Wrexham,

but John, you've been to Wrexham. I have, yeah, and I can visualize your broadcasting point as we speak, and I don't want to give you any bad vibes about this potential experience. But do you remember the old Brentford's stage? stadium, the country point there. Do I remember it? It was quite tight, wasn't it? I think it was the tightest of all of them.

Until Wrexham. Great. Right. Yeah, we went to a game. My daughter, Amy, and her fiancé, Gareth's a big Rexham fan. Oh. We got tickets for Bristol Rovers. Should I talk you through it, minute by minute?

So I'm tremendous. looking forward to that. So we've actually got England, Iceland, in the Women's World Cup qualifiers, which is on Sports Extra, on Saturday at 1230. And you? Well, I think I'm, I'm told I'll be now presenting at half time of your game because I'm actually, yeah, so. Well, where's Hare Chapman? Hair Chapman's going to be there. He's doing the TV. Oh, is he? That's where he told me, yeah. So I won't be seeing much of him there, then. No, it'll be in his Winnebago. His own personal one. Newcastle, Manchester City is at 8

I'll be joined by Rachel Corsy and then on Sunday 130 Portvale-Sundland followed by Leeds United Norwich City Ellen Road and then the FA Cup coverage concludes Monday night West Ham United against Brentford and then we are straight in

to even more live football what was it was it something like 26 live games over the course of nine days something like that so we've then got four games in the Champions League next week. Yes, we have. Although John, you're going to be there as a

spectator, aren't you on Monday night? Your beloved West Ham against Brentford? Yeah, looking forward to that. That's a classic could-go-any-way game, I think, isn't it? You know, so... But, yeah, I mean, even before West Ham started this improved spell of form, you know, our little support group, we really felt

it was important. We try and get a decent cup run, you know, just to... Well, back in the time, Remember that period around Christmas and New Year where high expectations were there, but low delivery was the mark of that particular period of our season. We couldn't be anybody at the time. So we said, yeah, Cup Run would be amazing and just to get these players playing together and just feeling it a bit more. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to Monday night under the lights. It should be really good fun.

And yes, then, Champions League, really serious business next week. last 16 of the competition. And so we've got a string of commentaries. 545 kickoff on Tuesday, Galatasaray against Liverpool, Connor McNamara and Stephen Warnock will be commentating on that. That night, Chris Waddles with you, Ian,

for the Newcastle Barcelona match, the first leg of that. Yeah, looking forward to spending time with the Wadler. And then Leverkus and Arsenal on the Wednesday and then you are off to Madrid, Rail Madrid, Manchester City for the 8 o'clock kickoff? Well, not only that, it's a Madrid double that I'm going to be at.

I'm going to be reporting at Athletico Madrid, Tottenham, on Tuesday night, and then commentating on Rail Madrid, Manchester City on Wednesday night, when Paul Robinson's going to be with me. And you've done a double like that as well, haven't you, in the not too distant past. Was it about four years ago that Manchester City played Atletico, so I did the commentary of that, and then the next night I did commentary of Real Madrid Chelsea. Yeah. And I know it's our job, but that is a real treat, isn't it? The prospect of going to Atlatico Madrid one night, and then the other side of Madrid the next night. I mean,

there are such a contrast, aren't they, those two clubs? I've got to say, I do like going to Real Madrid. I think they look after us. I'm sure you'll be in Cabina Ocho, which is our favorite cabin that Real Madrid always seemed to put us in? Well, when I'm in Cabina, Ocho, I might be singing Una Paloma Blanca. Did you hear that last week?

Well, we've already mentioned the naughty Mark Chapman, haven't we? And we did, John, I don't know whether you're aware of this, but a listener got in touch to suggest that the name of the West Ham manager could be sung along

to the tune of Una Paloma Blanca. and on the Monday nightclub on Five Live this week, Hare Chapman was in mischievous mood. You just call him Nuno. There are other members of the Five Live team who put a lot more effort into talking about Nuno. Nuno is Spirito Santo.

Managing that at first time. Nuno is Spirito Santo Relecates versus the plan So no one can take A Jarred away Now that is in the interest of cross-promotion Yeah, right? Because we wouldn't do anything that frivolous on this

Because we're serious, we're serious football chat That is the BBC's football correspondent John Murray Singing Nuno Spirito Santo to the tune of Pablo Blanco, I think. Before my time. No. Some, some, what?

No, yes, it was also covered by the Wurzels with I'm a cider drinker. Fine, fine, yeah. But it was from the 70s, so before any of our time. And I can say that that is, in the interest of cross-promotion, from the Commentator's View podcast. That's a reason not to listen to it. Which you refer to as? I refer to it as Last of the Summer Wired podcast,

but I've been told off of that. And I literally in my notes it says, could you please call it the commentator's view? So the commentator's view with Compo, Foggy and Cleggie on BBC Sound. So there we are. That was from Monday Night Club. That also was West Ham fan Ross,

who was singing on there as well. And all I would say is that, even at this advanced stage of my career you do live and learn, don't you? With our production staff, sometimes, you know, when you've got friends like that, who needs enemies? Well, Al Bashir in Toronto has said, Curses.

Can't get this tune out of my head. Muno Espirito Santo, managing down at West Ham. Thanks also to Bristol City fans, Sam and Dan, who've both got in touch along similar lines. Sam says, Re, last week's mention of Una Paloma Blanca, The Wurzals, I Am a Cider Drinker, is indeed sung by Bristol City fans, often during a lull in the game to raise spirits when we are several goals down.

Drink up the cider is also played when we win, while Blackbird typically booms out flowing a draw or dispiriting loss. Then, of course, says Sam, there is the band's ode to Bristol's finest footballing side titled One for the Bristol City. It all makes for a stellar compilation album, which no doubt ABB owns a copy of, having worked in the area, which of course he did. Sam says, keep up the great work.

I'd say I'd happily be TCV's Bristol City correspondent, but no doubt Jonathan Pearce already has that vacancy filled. So that is from Sam. And from Dan, we're waiting on confirmation for the annual Wurzel's concert after our last home game of the season, where all the hits are sung and is a great way

to bring the curtain down on another 12th place finish. And actually I had a message from John Rhoda, the TV commentator, Match Today commentator, who said, John says, he occasionally works

as public address announcer at Somerset County Cricket Club and he said, John, I can confirm that when Somerset win an exciting limit as Overs match at the Cooper Associates County Ground in Taunton, the DJ on duty for these games, which is usually his pal jinge, he says he actually doesn't know what his real name is.

He says he plays the Wurzols and many spectators join in to make it a communal sing-song of celebration. And we've also had this from Fulham supporter Tom. I was intrigued last week to hear of John's Fulnith for palm trees. A year or so ago when travelling to the USA for work and with a need to get my football fix while I was away, I wait to see LA Galaxy versus St Louis City in the MLS. The match itself, as often seems to be the case with that league, was not particularly memorable, but having escaped wet and grey London,

the clear blue skies and sunshine were. And of the 288 grounds I've been to to watch football, including a handful of the Middle East, this is the first one, I recall with palm trees designed into the stadium behind. the goal at one end. And he sent us a photograph, hasn't he? Or we have got a photograph of the

said ground with the palm trees there. It's gorgeous. It reminds me of Wrexham. Yeah. The commentary position in L.A. will still be cramped, though. We also love hearing about your listening experiences. And Chris, in Evesham, in Worcestershire, says, Hi, TCV team. Thoroughly enjoy the podcast,

Brackets, usually while walking my Springer Spaniel on a Saturday morning, brackets. I've had a strong affection for radio commentary since premium TV subscriptions started coming into football and were unaffordable for my family at the time. I used to listen to evening matches on my walkman in bed, with it precariously propped near the window tuned to medium wave to get a better signal.

I really should have been asleep when I had school the next day. Well, I remember I once took a portable radio into, it was when the F.A. Cup drawer was on a Monday afternoon and it had like the little earpiece and I pretended to put my left hand so I was resting my head to my left. So I'm just sort of like resting on the desk

but really I was listening to the FAA Cup draw and I got caught by the teacher. I clearly hadn't done it as well as I thought I had done and I got into trouble for that. But I used to often listen to a portable radio. So many great radio memories. And some sad ones as well. One of my earliest radio memories was,

I just can't help but think about, Dad and I went to Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham at Hillsborough. And it was the same day as the Bradford Fire. And mum and dad lived in Lincoln. Lincoln were playing Bradford that day, of course. And, yeah, I'll drive back from Sheffield to Lincoln, knowing that was happening, you know, and just being saddened but captivated by events unfolding on the radio.

It was just such a, it's so clearly etched in my memory, you know. So, yeah, the source of so much happiness, but radio communication, so, so powerful. Yeah, it is. It can hit all of the various heights and depths of emotion, can't it, when you are relying on the human voice, which is what I often said, didn't I, Ian, during COVID, just that whole thing about when so many people were spending so much time by themselves, just that connection with a human voice via the radio, I thought was incredibly powerful and a reminder of just what the radio can bring you. Let's have a listen as well to Michael in San Diego,

who sent us this. Great conversation last week about the perfect line from Baku. And it was John's commentary. It reminded me my favorite memory of the, listening to a football game was the 15th of October 1996. And in, I think, I'm right in saying I once heard that, Ian, this was your first European commentary game, but it was Fering Varroche against Newcastle. And myself and my friend Tony were walking, hiking in the Lake District. We were trying to make it to Keswick. It was lashing down with rain. We were somewhere alongside Durban Water. And we realized we weren't going to make it to Keswick, so we just pitched the tent,

got dry as much as possible, got the pot noodle on, had a cup of tea, and listened to this magically, crackery commentary coming from Hungary, lashing down the rain, and it was just pure magic.

That's brilliant. Remember the stadium. It was the Oluoy Stadium in Budapest, and I don't think it was the radio that was crackling, I just think it was the atmosphere To say they were passionate would be an understatement, the Ferensvarish supporters. I also have done a commentary, a European commentary, I think it was that stadium.

Certainly it was Ferens Varos. Can you remember, would you like both of you to have a stab at who Ferrinzvaros? So it's British opposition. Who were Ferens Faros's opponents from the UK? I will go Middlesbrough. Nope. Dundee United. The answer is, Millenius.

Millwall. In the Wayfer Cup, Millwall. That was an experience. I'll tell you. I bet you it was. Yeah.

You've told me that before. I should have got that. You should have got it. Yeah, Steve Cloridge was the summariser with this. Just going to rattle through Sam in Kingsling because then it brings us to the section that I've been so eagerly awaiting. That Sam says, Love the Pod, listen to the radio and having 5 live on during the weekend

was a real statement of my childhood, even in my 30s. There's not many better things than switching the radio on over the weekend and listening to whatever the 3pm game is or sports report at 5pm and hearing the roundup of the day's action. Special mention has to go to John Hunt

whose commentary is always of the highest quality. He genuinely makes me feel like I'm watching whatever race he's commentating on simply superb. Sam, I wholeheartedly agree with you. So Sam, John, this will be a special. edition of the commentator's view for him because we are now going to concentrate on on your speciality of commentating on horse racing and first of all just to tee this up let's cast our minds back to last year's Cheltenham

Gold Cup and the commentary that came with it on five live the second last fence coming up gallop and a champ at it he's only got a narrow lead here from i know the way you're thinking corbett's cross fell there at the second last and now it's I know the way you're thinking a massive danger I know the way you're thinking takes over at the last Gallup and a shop has got no response he's now looking firmly beaten and we've now got a new name on the Gold Cup role of honour and it is I know the way you're thinking who has won the Gold Cup in great style really Mark walsh punches the air while a week he's had he's brushed aside Gallupendos Schump to win the gold cup to win the gold cup. up by five or six legs. And that was John Hunt in great style yourself, John, last year. And Gareth in Shrewsbury says, Hello, chaps. I have to say that I have often tuned in

to hear John Hunt cover a big horse race. And I don't follow that sport at all, but he is amazing at commentary. And Gareth says, John, how does he do it? So here's your opportunity to answer that very open question. Well, I think it stems from a lot of, love of the sport in the same way as you guys absolutely live, eat and drink football. We do the same as 18 and commentators up and down the country on horse racing.

I don't know. It's just moving parts, isn't it? I think the mechanics of our sports are very similar, really. It's in terms of, you know, there's always an end game in my sport, horse racing. The finish line is where it really counts. Your sport, when the net bulges, you know, that's. the big moment of any particular game, isn't it? So I don't know, you always build to that particular moment. You understand there are periods within that where there's not an awful lot

happening, but there's still, especially on radio as well, you know, there's still the opportunity to be as descriptive as possible. And as I've watched horse racing all my life, I've always tried to almost look at myself as an additional jockey trying to get as close to the action as possible, without the inherent dangers, I should hasten to add. But yeah, and if we can take the listener to that intimate type of experience as well, then all the better. That's all any of us are ever aiming for, isn't it, to just bring an authentic description of what is actually happening in front of you, you know, and that doesn't

matter whether it's a little maiden hurdle that I'll be doing later on at Exeter today or a German Gold Cup. The same rules apply. Can you remember your first commentary, John? My first ever commentary, yeah, was in the spring of 1992, and it was at Salisbury Racecourse. I remember a lot about that particular day, but I remember Willie Carson had three winners.

One of them was on a horse called In the Picture, because I did a tremendously impressive pun, which I was told never to repeat again. So that fell flat on its face. But, yeah, there was a lovely horse that day called Venture Capitalist, too well as well he used to be trained by Richard Hanen it's strange what you what you remember isn't it from these little snapshots years and years and years ago so yeah the um 1992 think it was the fifth of may at um at Salisbury race course Willie Carson you know the follow-up question though now

don't you what was the pun oh it was just such a lame lame one about you know the the photo finish not required for in the picture or something something like that but yeah I told you I shouldn't have bothered. When we've talked about you, John, when you haven't been here, and we've talked about the skills of doing other commentaries, I've said a couple of times, what I admire about the horse racing commentator is that ability to clear your mind. You know, the fact that you'll have five or six commentary races, maybe more, in the space of an afternoon. And just that discipline of the names, the numbers, everything, the stories about the horses, to be able to go,

that's done onto the next one. Did that come naturally to you? And is it as difficult as I'm thinking it is? Not as difficult as you think. You know, I often think that lots of commentators can do lots of different roles. I firmly believe that. And I think race commentary is, I think it's earned deservedly or not. I think it's earned a little bit of a mystique over the years,

but it's not that challenging. I'll give you a good example. I did a football game years ago for Five Live, and it was Derby County Millwall, and all the Millwall Back Four were identical. I swear, you know, they all had the same haircuts, they all had the same boots, and I spent the best part of that 90 minutes

trying to work out which of them was which. And I really, really struggled with that. And therefore, I got into a little bit of a hole with just four players on that pitch that day, and I couldn't get out of the hole. So give me a 20-runner novice hurdle in comparison to that, and it was much, much easier. But I find the ability, I think you mentioned the ability to immediately propel what you have just done or what you are doing into the bin straight away, forget about it, straight away. I think that's essential. Otherwise, you'd have all sorts of drag. from the previous racing that you've done

and it would perhaps colour your next race. So whether you've done a really good job or just a bang average job, you've just got to leave it behind the second it's done. And I think whether we know it or not, we train our brains to do that, I think. I think it's the most effective way and I think it's the way most race commentators operate,

you honest. I think there is a degree of you being typically modest there, John, because I'm thinking we love going to the York Danty meeting, as you know, in, well, we'd like going to any meeting in York, to be fair, but particularly the Dante meeting in May. And that dash over, say, the five furlongs, how do you differentiate a horse just to come out of the pack? That's got to be surely harder than identifying a Millwallback four, because you could have 20 runners, different colours. How do you train your mind to pick out the different colours? because you probably won't see the numbers in the blink of an eye, would you? Yeah, race car, the actual saddlecloth number never really comes into it.

It's not really visible. So it's all about the colours. Sometimes it's about the style of the jockey as well. You know, you develop, you get to know a jockey's posture in the saddle in the same ways you'd know the gate of a left-winger charging down the wing. You know, you don't need to know their number or anything like that necessarily. but it's, I think we're lucky in racing and all of us who do it on a sort of 12-month-year basis and we're up and down the country seeing these horses on a fairly regular basis.

So at Cheltenham this week, for example, there won't be many horses that come as a surprise. You know, they're all, you could look at all of their past performances on video without any problem at all, easy access to that sort of thing. So none of it comes as a particular surprise. It's just making sure that, you know, you're just calling the right horse at the right time. And in terms of, I don't know really, really, Ian, about the movement, the turnover of positions within a race.

It's very different, that five-furlong sprint race at York compared to a three-mile chase at the Cheltenham Festival where you've got lots and lots of time to work things out as you go. Are there names that you love commentating on? And I was thinking that, listening to the commentary from last year, it would strike me that I like the way you're thinking, is a great name to commentate because of the rhythm of that phrase to use that in a race? Or is that too long?

Yeah, sometimes, John. I mean, there are two really good horses. One's called Brighter Days Ahead. One's called Petter Days Ahead. And I wish they'd called them something else, to be honest. Or that they weren't running in the same era. Exactly, exactly, yeah. I mean, happily, they don't run in the same type of races.

but yeah, just the fact that they're both high-profile and both on people's minds. You know, it's just it just injects a degree of discomfort. You know, whenever they run, you're just mindful of that whatever you do, don't call it the other one. I used to think that great horse, best mate, great, great name as well, wasn't it, for a high-achieving horse for a commentator? Yeah, simple names. especially the top jump horses these days

in so many cases you'll see it every single race at Cheltenham and most of the time it will be the top six or seven in the betting there'll be a horse that's name is derived from its spell as a young horse in France you know so you know there's horse on Tuesday called Coppecde Board you know it's not it's not exactly best mate is it or Golden Miller or Arkell but it is what it is, isn't it?

And sometimes you get a flurry of Kopec de boards followed by Iliad Desart. And, you know, it's like, they're all words and they all take up your airspace, don't they? So it's difficult if you're firing off these names not to present too confusing a picture. But you're going to work with what you're working with. Yeah, although you should thank you,

lucky stars, when you're talking about that, reminds me of show jumping from the 70s and 80s when many of the horses were named after Japanese electrical product. Do you remember that? Like Sanyo Music Centre. When I started off, there was a Hinaari televideo running. So, yes, it's funny how things evolve over time. But yeah, there's still plenty of difficult names out there.

But people make funny choices when they name their animals. My name's Steve Bradnell, a sister manager of Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation. And now the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world banter eyes. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's the podcast? Brilliant.

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Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics,

your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever, you get your podcasts. The commentator's view on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. And when you've finished one race and you've got half an hour to prep for the next,

do you immerse yourself in the next race or is already a lot of your work already done and you sort of like nip off to the toilet, get yourself a little bit of refreshments? What take us through the sort of like a quick crash course of your three hours of racing? Yeah. So what would happen really is I really honestly just only worry about one race at a time because race four at the time

race one is taking place. Race four doesn't matter at all. I might not even get it there. So, you know, after race one is finished, at Cheltenham, we're so lucky, so we've got a, we might talk about commentary positions. We've got the best seat in house at Chelman. It's the fifth floor. It's right on the winning line. But apart from that, A, it's near the toilet, superb and B you have access to the rear of the stand as well so you can immediately within

15 seconds of putting your mic down on race one you can take yourself to the back of the grandstand which overlooks the pre-parade ring and you can see the horses already there for race number two and it's a more it's a calming environment as well out the back of the grandstand

there's next to nobody having a look from the fifth floor but out the front is manic so it's I like Like the, obviously when you're working the racing is intense, but then there's an immediate opportunity to have a physical and a mental calm down before you go again for race two. Do you use binoculars to commentate? I do, yeah. I like to have them.

Again, we get sport, really. We have two different TV feeds at Cheltenham, one with ITV's pictures, one with race takes pictures, and they're often presented at different angle. But I have my binoculars set on what I consider to be. the most difficult part of the track, the part of the track that is not easy to view. It's usually at the top of the hill or down near the two-mile start,

away to the left. They're fixed, John. They're big sort of submarine binoculars on a big stand that just pivot. They're about a foot and a half long. They're amazing. But I've got my own handheld binoculars as well for swiftness of movement where

if I see something out of the corner of my eye and I don't know exactly what it was at that moment. I can just whisk them. So I always have my binoculars in my hand as well. So, yes, quite a lot of gear, but when you're in the middle of it, you don't really give that sort of any thought, really. It's just part of the stage where you're performing, really.

And talking about commentary positions, as you mentioned there, we have had an email from Sean in Australia, who says a couple of interesting commentary positions in horse racing are those at Randwick in Sydney and Flemm. in Melbourne. The angles at both of these are made worse because of the race callers positioning. At Randwick, the caller is 75 metres past the post, and at Flemington, the caller is 50 metres before the post on a 45 degree angle. Does that put shivers down your spine? Yeah, it's happened to us a few times when they renovated Longchon in Paris for the Arc de Triumph.

that grandstand rebuild took years as you could imagine so they put some temporary commentary boxes out for us great we thought we turn up and yeah they're literally a quarter of a mile before the winning line you know so and they're low down the angle's terrible waste of time really but but it does make you I'm sure you get this as football commentators all the time when you land a pristine perfectly positioned commentary point you think

oh, this is just perfect. And for me, that's about height, how much you can actually see with your own eyes. I personally hate being behind glass. You know, do the windows move out? Is there literally fresh air between yourself and the action? That's what, that's what I really, really like. Yeah, that's a real, for us at Wembley,

it's a good commentary position, but it's such a shame, isn't it? We're not in the open air, that we are in a box which has its advantages, but being behind glass is is never where I want to be. No, I agree. You want to feel the action and I think that the glass is an obstruction to that.

Do you have a favourite venue, John? I've got so many. I'm going to Sandown for Five of Live on Saturday for the Imperial Cup. That's a great commentary box because it's just about as high as you can be at Sandown. Sandown's ground stand is not high, but again it's right on the line.

You can touch the heads of the crowd in front of you almost. It's a really immersive experience. I really like to sound down park. See, we often look up at you from the middle of the race course at York and see where you are there. And I mean, that looks like a brilliant position. It is. It is, yeah. York's fantastic as well.

If you want to be really picky, though, your commentary box is very narrow. So to see, certainly to your right, looking out on the track, not so much to the left, but to your right, you've sort of got to really lean out of the box window, which is no problem, but because it's so tight and narrow, you don't have that sort of easy field of vision, I'd say. But, yeah, York's another great one, high up, round the line, superb.

I missed out on a 100 to one winner at last year's festival, which I was most annoyed about. Have you ever had an occasion where you've had a... flutter and you've had to call that particular horse home and therefore you've had to sort of like conceal your own personal excitement um the one that springs to mind was was not so much conceal my own excitement but my own crushing disappointment because you know I wouldn't advocate this at all but I I think the biggest bet I ever had was it not at the Chelman festival but that Chelman they have another lovely meeting in the April and I was commentating and

there was no way I could see this horse getting beat. And it did. And I was commentating on that. And I was so, so disappointed, you know. And, of course, it wasn't even tight. The writing was on the wall a long, long way out. So you had to bluff your way to the finish there saying, oh, isn't this great for Paul, you?

Another winner for the informed Paul Nichols when I backed the Nicky Henderson thing that's spoiling in him fourth place. So, yeah, I can't really. remember Neptune Colange winning the Grand National was great. I had a little nibble on that. That was a 40 to one winner. But again, he was involved in a really, really, really tight photo finish. So it was impossible to know whether he had won or lost really that day.

But yeah, there are a couple that sprink to mine for good and bad. We often talk about pronunciations of footballers names on here. How do you get the right pronunciations for the names of the horses? Well, do you know what? It's so haphazard, John. It drives me mad, really. And this comes back to the Olympic Games as well. Because on the Olympic, on the formal media pages for the Olympic Games,

every athlete, clearly when they've supplied their accreditation, have been asked to pronounce their name correctly. You know, and you've got a little icon that's clearly there so you can listen to how they want their names pronounced. In horse racing, very often their current owners haven't actually named their horses. So you ask them and they say, I don't know, I got it from France or something. I know it's Gaelic, but if it is Gaelic, I'll ask some of my Irish friends for the correct pronunciation about it. Sometimes you just don't know.

I had one yesterday. It was called, I'm not going to get this right now, but it was one word. And it was like G-Y-N-E-M-Y-N-E or something like that. And I just thought, well, G-Y-Y-Y-N-E, or something like that. And I just thought, well, G-G-Y-Y-Y-M-Y-M-N-E, or something like that. And I just thought, well, Gwinyami is going to have to do, you know. And it may have been an acronym for something, or it may have been something very, very important to somebody in their life.

But I'm a bit of a commodging. I sometimes think if horses are given difficult names, then, and the owner doesn't like how you pronounce it, then don't give it a difficult name in the first place. Give it a best mate. Well, listen, we're really looking forward to listening to you and the team at Cheltenham this coming week on Five Live Sports Extra, BBC sounds, whatever platform it is on at the time. And just give us an idea, John,

how does the week pan out for you at Cheltenham, which must be one of the, if not the biggest week of the year for you in terms of your profession? It's interesting because you have to remember to do the basic things as well as immerse yourself in trying to make sure you're doing as good a job as possible. And by that, I mean, you know, when was the last time? you had something to drink, you know, a glass of water. It was the last time you had some food, you know, you don't want to be getting to like two o'clock and think, God, I haven't had anything to eat all day, you know,

and it's too late there. So you have to manage the sensible, boring day-to-day stuff. But once you've done that, yeah, I don't, it's a place, Cheltenham is a place where you can lose so much physical energy just by being there. and so I'm not antisocial at all. I like to catch up with people, but if I haven't sort of caught up with them by 11.30,

I'm not going to go traipsing down to the Guinness Village to meet them for a half a Lager at midday. Do you know what I mean with a 120 start? I like to be up where I'm going to be an hour or so before the first race. And yeah, I do like to take advantage of the, of the calmer moments within the busyness of that day. It's a long, it's only four days. I know it doesn't sound a great deal,

and people will say, yeah, come and do my night shift for four days and see how you feel. And I get all of that, but it's still, you do just have to look after yourself a little bit. For a would-be commentator, what would your advice be? I would say keep believing yourself. If you think you can do it, you probably can. With regard to racing, as I say, there's access to racing everywhere online. There's two dedicated racing channels. There's a brilliant terrestrial racing channel ITV cover the racing every single weekend and most big week meetings as well.

So the access to this racing is there. If you think you can commentate on it, sit down in front of that action and practice and practice and practice and keep going. Because I don't think there are any shortcuts really. I think literally the more you do, the better you'll get at it. And of course, if you really want to be a racing commentator, you'll think of that as an investment, not a chore. And if it's a chore to you, then I don't think you want to be a commentator. John's been great having you on.

And we could have, it's the same when other of our colleagues have been on here. We've always said, you know, we could just go on and on and on and on. Because there are so many things we can talk about. But that's been brilliant. We've just got a couple of unintended pub names from sports commentary for you. And we will wrap up with the great glossary of football commentary as well. So last time we had the ill-advised challenge with its daring deco and reckless cocktails. We also had the Dangerous Mark Chapman from the TMS cricket commentary and the Whip It In,

which is an actual pub that we've been to in York. Liverpool fan Tony says, come on fellas, in the New Zealand cricket commentary, you missed another one. Charnet. Bowls in. Chapman. Go second ball. glorious delivery it's his third wicket Tikshana

flighted pitched on middle hit the top of off and there's a bowler there is not a prettier sight New Zealand 84 for 5 now Chapman goes for a two ball duck

Tony says two ball duck would be a great name for a pub this is a good one from Liverpool fan Dave in Seton in East Devon This potential pub name has been mentioned many, many times over the years. Not many pubs are as unpopular. I refer you to the dreaded drop.

A remote, shabby, rural tavern in serious need of complete refurbishment, a miserable landlord who can't be bothered cleaning the pipes and still has eggnog and baby sham on the shelves. Every team in the world is trying to avoid it. the dreaded drop and this from Daniel in Burgess Hill During Liverpool versus

West Ham Meister of the Mike Ian introduced a new potentially very niche pub Gatpo there barged into the back of Sochek I meant to say this

actually in the first half Tim Robinson the referee Chris Kavanaer is back involved he was given last week off after his controversial performance between Villa and Newcastle

and the FA Cup and he will actually be in charge of Manchester United Crystal Palace tomorrow, the man in the middle at Old Trapper. The man in the middle, I'm imagining, being an externally low-key pub, frosted glass windows, perhaps a plain black sign creaking on its hinges,

huddled inside a gaggalls of referees mumbling into their pints about being misunderstood, whilst Howard Webb takes to the mic and regales the congregation with a medley of his favourite motivational karaoke hits. I'd love to hear your suggestions, perhaps, of what Howard would be singing. Thank you, Daniel.

Possibly best that we don't do that, Ian. I did give that a little bit of thought, actually. Oh, did you? Go on. Yeah, it actually kept me awake last night. I thought ACDC, back in black. Oh, yeah, very good. But also, who sang stuck in the middle with you? That was Steelers' wheel, wasn't it?

Right. Stuck in the middle. Yeah, very good. I'm a little bit younger than you, so I didn't know who sang that. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a bit like, what was it, the George Baker selection from last week? And also, as well, Ian, Daniel, who referred to you as the maestro of the mic, that would be a good pub name, wouldn't it? The maestro of the mic, it can see that on the sign.

Well, I tell you what, when you retire, if you ever retire, you could put your BBC pension and open up a little boozer. Oh, well, I'm not sure if that's the direction I want to be going in. Anyway, if you... Probably do you call it's profits. Anyway, if you spot an unintended pub or film name in any sports commentary, not just any of ours, do let us know. TCV at BBC.com.uk and WhatsApp to 08,000, 289-369. And to finish with, the great glossary of football commentary.

This is where we look for commentary terms and phrases, which you might have heard on the radio. And you can find our entire glossary in the episode, description so it's all there for you. So division one, that's where we put football exclusive terms and division two for terms used in football commentary but also used in other sports. So last week we added booked and sweeper-keeper into division one. Recently we also added coupon buster into division one as a football exclusive term. But would you get a coupon buster in racing, John? Probably not, would you doubt it?

I'd say no, no, no. Coupons is very much in the territory. Louis, or Lewis, says the horse racing equivalent could be a dark horse. I think, I'm just thinking of the horse racing equivalent is a, do you hear place pop buster? No, right, yeah. We've had a few of those. One that occurred to me this week, because we were talking about the very tight situation now at the bottom end of the Premier League, I use the phrase a friend of mine that they'll be looking to

be staving off relegation. I'm saying what other scenario do you use the phrase staving off? I cannot think of another scenario where I would say well they're staving off whatever I think that is well it's probably

a division two staving off relegation so there's that my own personal contribution but we've got this one from spud and Freddie in Oxford. Hello chaps, a super dictionary contribution from Ali's commentary on Arsenal,

Chelsea with Matt Hobson. Is that what they were looking at handball there for Rice for that? I think so. Didn't need that much of a check, did it really? I thought he was pretty straightforward that. He's got tried to head the ball and it's just hit him on just underneath the shoulder.

Right. Now, Darren England, explaining the Queensby rules here to Zubimandhi and Mamadu Soren and exactly what you're allowed to do and what you're not allowed to do off the ball, waiting for the corner to be delivered.

I mean, Rice has his arms. That does fit very well into everything that happened during the Arsenal Chelsea match. Spud says, I haven't heard it in ages, the Queensbury Rules. But it's a fabulous way of describing a lengthy or fastidious rules explanation. Surely a candidate for the glossary, but I guess Division 2, since the rules themselves are the rules for boxing. Great commentary, Ali, says Spud.

And Freddie in Oxford, I was unfamiliar with the Queensbury Rules, so I looked it up to discover that these are the now standard rules of boxing named the Queensbury rules due to the public endorsement by John Douglas, the Marquess of Queensbury in the 1860s. Having never heard this phrase before in any scenario, sports commentary or otherwise, I cannot confidently place it into either division. So I'll leave that at the discretion of you, Estabal fellows.

Although I guess it will have to be Division 2, won't it? and one from our unsorted category here, which Gareth in Newtown has brought back to the table. He says, while preparing a couple of boiled eggs for lunch, soft yolks, I was, as usual, listening to Five Life Sport and chuckling at Rob Green and the legend Steve Bruce discussing the shortcomings of Bournemouth Keeper, Georgia Petrovich. That there wasn't the hardest of strikes, and you're thinking, I think he thinks it's going to be a hard one,

I'm going to go with one hand, whereas realistically you stand and set and react to it and you go with two hands. Come on, Rob, he should have put his cap on it. Come on. I can't say that, Steve. You said it. I know you're in this goalkeeper's union

and I get it. There we go. I get it totally. I get it. But come on. Put his cap on it was a great Mark Laurinson phrase as well that he often used to use. And that's probably Division One.

and put his cap on it. Yeah, probably is. Yeah. And let's finish with this one from Georgie in Cheshire. Hi team. I have a glossary suggestion that came out

of Ali's commentary of Arsenal against Chelsea. Chelsea taking another risk at the back. That's the young centreback. Sargot caught in possession. Tackled by Saka, the ball has spun straight to Sanchez. He slings it out to his right.

Chalabar plays it down the right to Reach James. Inside his own half. Quick ball forward from Sanchez. No look past from Palmer. Leber intercepts that. No look pass. I think it's probably more likely to be Division 2 than Division 1, as I suspect it may be used in perhaps netball and basketball,

although I'm not sure. In my opinion, the greatest exponent of the no-look pass would be Bobby Fomino, who also extended it to no-look finishes and no-look assists on a fairly regular basis. But I'd be very interested to hear which player each of you think has best mastered the particular art of the no look past. The one that comes to mind for me is Namar. Namar liked a no look pass. Yeah.

Any thoughts, John? A few of those talented, didn't Packeter quite liked a no look past, didn't they? Yeah. Should I not have mentioned Packeter? Have I blotted my copy book right at the end? So in summary And Ali will be back with us next week When we will no doubt

Devote a little more time To the unattended pub names and the glossary But this week we have put staving off Relegation into Division 2 Queensbury rules have gone into Division 2 Put his cap on it Into Division 1 And No Luke Pass

Let's put it into Division 1 for the time being Hooray! So that is it. John Hunt, thank you very much for your company. I'm looking forward to a rendition of on Monday, when we're three-n-half of 10th. You see, you've made a mistake there. You've fallen into the same trap that I did. That'll rear its head again now.

And questions, welcome for our Q&A episode to TCV at BBC.com. or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08,289-389-369. And likewise, make sure you listen to John and the team commentating on Cheltenham next week on 5 Live and BBC Sounds. But that is it for this episode of the Football Daily. And remember, you can find each and every episode of the commentator's view by scrolling down your Football Daily feed. We're a sample. Managing the request time. Five live sports.

WSL. Our referee for this afternoon. Close her whistle. We are underway. The women's football weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Lucy Bruns, welcome back. What one liners do you think would make the best rugby player?

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This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.