Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Parisian pleasures & the Monaco giraffe

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

5 Live commentators John Murray, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce-Ball tell the stories you don’t normally get to hear. From the delights on offer at the Parc des Princes to Ian getting called out by Gareth Southgate for his dinner party getup. Gigi Salmon and Russell Fuller reveal what it’s like commentating at the Australian Open tennis. And can Ali go level at the top with John in Clash of the Commentators?00:30 Ali’s Monaco memories 09:10 Champions League snakes & ladders 12:30 John’s Parisian treats 16:10 Best foreign commentary phrases 23:40 Ian gets called out by Gareth Southgate 26:15 The power of silence & staying enthused 31:55 John vs Ian in Clash of the Commentators 40:00 Commentating at the Australian Open tennis 45:00 The local verdict on Savio vs Savinho 48:50 What will be added to the Great Glossary?BBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries this weekend: Sat 25 Jan 1500 Wolves v Arsenal, Sat 25 Jan 1730 Man City v Chelsea, Sun 26 Jan 1400 Tottenham v Leicester, Sun 26 Jan 1400 Crystal Palace v Brentford on 5 Sports Extra, Sun 26 Jan 1630 Aston Villa v West Ham.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello, I'm John Murray. This is The Commentator's View where we take you behind the microphone and tell you the stories behind the five live commentaries. And with me, of course, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce Ball, who, well, we've all been on our travels this week, haven't we? Ali, you've been to Monaco. Both of you must have done. Have you commentated in the Stade Louis-de-Monaco before?

Well, I was going to ask you the very same question. Have you been there before? Because I know both of us have been. I've been to Monaco before, working for the BBC. Of course you have. Of course you've been to Monaco before, working for the BBC. Of course you have. Of course you've been to Monaco before. Yeah. But it was in the very early days of my time at the BBC,

and I was a sports reporter, and I got sent over to go and cover the Laureus Sports Awards for a couple of years, which is very Monaco and very glitzy and very glamorous. And I had only been at the BBC for, I don't know, probably a year or two. And I remember arrived in a taxi in the main square in Monte Carlo for the first evening gig of this Laureus Sports Awards. And I got out of the taxi and the first person I saw was Kylie Minogue.

You should be so lucky. And I thought, crikey, this is a good gig. I've landed on my feet here. She was just going up the steps into her hotel. We weren't in the same hotel, funnily enough. Her hotel was a little bit posher than mine. But that was one of those events where you got to interview the great and the good of world sports.

So you'd rattle through sort of ten interviews a day and you'd be interviewing people like Evander Holyfield and Bjorn borg and you know just pele and just all sorts of different people uh but i've never commentated in the stadium so i did that on uh tuesday night uh this week which was monaco against aston villa the football was a little disappointing unai emery very irritable afterwards not happy with the way aston villa have played but i found it quite an odd an odd atmosphere there's only a strange place isn't it very strange place John and actually Pat Nevy made a really good point about because when we got there um we were sort of struggling to find our way to the

commentary position it's not a massive stadium but we just found ourself sort of going down different corridors and tunnels and upstairs and we we weren't finding it very easy to get around and in lifts and what floor do you get out of and where's the press room and all that sort of thing. And Pat pointed out that Monaco as a place, you know, sort of sells itself and loves being very exclusive. And people really enjoyed saying to us, that's not quite the right accreditation you've got there,

so you can't go through that door, so we're going to have to send you. And honestly, we must have hit about three different dead ends before we were eventually allowed to go a certain route which was the most circuitous route to get to our position at the back of the stand. But yeah, it's a funny little stadium. It's a bit flat, isn't it, Ian? I find that the atmosphere is never very good.

There's a big running track around the pitch so you're a long way away and it never has a very big crowd does it? I mean what was the crowd the other night? Probably less than 15,000. Yeah and there was a tiny little pocket of Monaco Ultras who let off a couple of flares at the start of the game. I mean the Aston Villa fans were making more noise. They travelled in numbers and they've been great tourists actually John. I've done two of their trips. I did the trip to Leipzig and Young Boys and Monaco, three of their trips. And they've been really good company, the Aston Villa fans, when we've been out and about. And they had a lovely afternoon in Nice.

So we stayed in Nice. Day we arrived, grey skies pouring with rain. Day we left, grey skies pouring with rain. But match day was spectacular. It's the first sunshine I've seen for a couple of weeks. And it was that lovely sort of... A couple of weeks? Yeah, I think so. It's like a couple of weeks and it was that lovely sort of couple of weeks a couple of months for me yeah maybe it's all right yeah i just had that lovely warmth to it and so went for a little walk along the promenade with our engineer rob dibble john

southall went for a run pat nevin went for a run i didn't i didn't go quite as far as that but you could see all the villa fans had found these lovely cafes on the seafront in Nice with these narrow little balconies and they were all just sitting facing the sea, a couple of drinks, getting ready for the football. They've had a fantastic time of it

in the Champions League, Aston Villa, with the trips they've had this season. It has to be, though, one of the most soulless stadiums, I think, well, certainly in Europe, probably in world football, doesn't it? I think I did the commentary there in 98 with Newcastle United.

And I've been back to Monaco a few times with the various draws that UEFA have had there. But in terms of a football experience, soulless. Quite often covered the Super Cup match. Do you remember it was regularly held in that stadium? And that was a terrible choice of stadium for the Super Cup because you know it's an expensive place to go to therefore and and as i said you only get a small crowd and very often people are put off by the prices because it's because it's so expensive and so the atmosphere for that for that match was was usually

really really poor the other event that was going on uh and apparently happens every january in monaco is the international circus festival so i bumped into a couple of our colleagues from the written press who were also doing a circuit of the stadium trying to get in before the game and they turned one corner and been very startled uh to bump into a giraffe so basically they turned a corner and it was it was the back of where the International Circus Festival was being held. So some of the animals were out back and they literally turned a corner and leaning its head over this fence was this enormous giraffe.

And apparently that's been going on for years in Monaco in general. Could have been worse. Could have been a tiger. Why would a giraffe be at a circus? That's a good question, that. Yeah. You'd have a giraffe in a zoo, wouldn't you? Not in a circus.

Yeah, you sometimes get elephants, don't you, at the circus? Yeah, you'd have a lion or a tiger. Yeah. You might have a bear. Seals. Seals, you would have. Performing seals. Why would a giraffe be at a circus?

What would a giraffe Do in a circus You're not clowning around In the story Well There's a good link Ian Because I also discovered That awards are given At this international

Circus festival For the top performer So it's there to celebrate People at the top Of their game Whether it's You know In circus performing

But the top award Is called the golden clown Oh Well I would imagine You can't If a giraffe Wants to be at the top Of his game You're not going well i would imagine you can't if a giraffe wants to be at the top of his game you're not going to get many people higher than a giraffe are you golden the golden clown the golden clown we could we could take that i could suggest that who would win the golden clown ah let me think uh maybe we shouldn't introduce that um john it was so we had we

had beautiful sparkling sunshine in uh in monaco and nice it was very very wet in paris wasn't it on wednesday night yeah and the weather had been great it was a strange strange couple of days because it was freezing cold in paris it was raining golds as well, wasn't it? It was raining golds as well, but it was freezing cold the night before when we went to see Pep Guardiola and Erling Haaland, actually, who was the choice to speak to us the night before, which was in the light of what was happening this time last week with the contract. You know, fascinating to hear his take when he was asked questions about it by the wider media, you know, in terms of how he reacted. And he would have to say very, of course, he would be relaxed, wouldn't he, if you just signed a contract to 2034 on the kind of money he's said to be on.

But that was very interesting. And Pep Guardiola, of course, as well. Freezing cold that night. Next day, walk up, went out, and I thought, oh, temperature soared. By the time we got to tea time, the rain was torrential. And I came down into reception, and I said to the rest of the team, I think we might be all right. There might be a break in the weather for us to walk to the ground. And we were staying just to walk away, so it wasn't too far away.

We went outside. And I think, think i mean it was pelting down and it rained like that for the rest of the evening actually as well so it was quite a backdrop to what was a really really thrilling match and unlike ali did you did you uh manage to find your way safely to your commentary position or did you get lost as well? Because that's what Ali was basically saying. It was Connor, wasn't it, who got lost inside the Parc des Princes at half-time and as indeed we can refresh our memory. I do remember years

ago doing a game at the Parc des Princes in Paris, a stadium I wouldn't have known very well and at half-time I went wandering looking for a cup of tea and whatever kind of concourse, it's an old stadium I went out and then they sort of all looked the same when I came back and I didn't know which one I was in

and I was on the right. And it was literally, the teams were coming back out and I don't know where the commentary position is. I remember that was a bit of a panic. So that was Connor in an earlier episode

of the commentator's view, the wasp in the mouth episode, if you want to go back and find that on the... Have you still listened to that? Have I still listened to it? Sorry, have you still not listened to that? I don't think I it? Sorry, have you still not listened to that?

I don't think I have, actually, no. No, I haven't heard that one yet. Next week's going to be really interesting, isn't it? I mean, Manchester City now, there is a huge amount of jeopardy on that game next week against Club Bruges. But also just the fact that all these games are going to kick off at the same time.

So we're not looking at little groups of four. We're looking at one giant table. And I know issues have been decided for some teams, but I think that's going to be a real sort of interesting test of this new format next week. And we've spoken in this podcast before a few weeks back, probably a couple of months ago, about the concerns about that final night and dealing with that table. How are you feeling about that now?

I'm not sure it's going to be quite as thrilling as i thought it was going to be because there are more issues sorted out than we thought but i think to have ended up with a scenario whereby some of the real big guns could have been knocked out i think that is exciting and i think that's probably and there's probably more of that than there would have been in the in the four team groups but if you look at the Europa League and obviously the format's very similar to the Champions League Manchester United when they were leading 1-0 against Rangers were fourth in the Europa League table when Rangers got their equalizer two minutes from the end all of a sudden Manchester United dropped to ninth and therefore they're out of the top eight and an automatic qualification to the

last 16 and then when united obviously won 2-1 they went back to fourth so that gives you an indication of the potential movement that you could have how quickly in did that table update in front of you while you were commentating or were you doing your own maths on that no no it's it's the it's the live league table so it's very similar to what we have on a Saturday afternoon. It didn't move very quickly in Paris. So the first thing that happened was Arsenal scored in the first minute against Dinamo Zagreb. And as you say, Ali, so I'm looking at it,

and I say, well, that's easy because there's only been one goal tonight. And I'm looking at it, and this was the UEFA app that we were looking at, the live table there and arsenal should have been jumping up to third and it didn't they did and i'm thinking when's that going to happen so we said they're going to go third in the table but but that was slow and we ended up using another table instead that night so that does worry me that that does worry me and it's all down to connectivity if you've not got the connection that you should have but also when we work at the major tournaments the world cup and

the euros the great thing about the final group games there is that on our monitors we can bring up tables that we do trust i think because they are they're they're what's the technical phrase they are hardwired in whatever it was was. Do you know what I mean? There's no... Connectivity is not an issue. So it happens automatically. I have to say, even when that happens at a game like that, I still like to have my own table and sort of double-check the maths.

I still like to double-check it. I find it hard to totally trust that. Good luck with that, with a 36-team table. Well, I know. You know, on a Saturday afternoon when I'm going around the grounds, on my little crib sheet, I make a little note anyway about what's required from each team. And I rely on that more than the live.

The live league table on the computer is more of a backup. But for next week, if you've got a hard wire and use the BBC video printer system, which we use on a Saturday, it'll be absolutely fine. OK, let's see how that goes then i'm pleased to hear of your confidence i must tell you another thing as well by the way just from paris because you'll have all been to the parc de prince where psg and they serve what can only be described as french delicacies have you all experienced that yes so and they are

tiny tiny so there's a cheese board there's a magnificent cheese board which just goes i never get any of that that just disappears and the other things they put out about three trays of these absolutely some of them this week were the size of a one pence piece what but but delicious i imagine delicious absolutely delicious um and also at halftime rob scofield the producer brought up this little tart it was a rat it was a strawberry tart and that was the size of a two pens piece so that was petite it was it was petite in the extreme i saw your picture on you took a picture yes on social media and you framed it with the the heat in the extreme i saw your picture on you took a picture on social media and you framed it with the the stand in the background on the opposite side of the field it was that was

that was a very good picture that but what was funny was matt upson was with us so we'd gone and as an advanced party to the stadium and we'd all got very wet because the parc de prince is not straightforward to get into there are at least a couple of rings of steel and as we all know you don't just walk up to the stadium as we did on the night before the match when we were going to cover the the interviews and press conferences and such like they will then send you right around an established route on the roads around the parc de prance and you go through several checkpoints and have to show your credentials and accreditation etc etc but of course on this night it's absolutely hammering

down with rain so by the sound we went through this circuitous route we're all very wet and Matt then later goes through the same route and gets very very wet so he turned up so he had to hang his coat up to dry. So... He didn't strip to his underpants then? He did not strip to his underpants, no, as in previous cases discussed. But then he was ready for something to eat.

And I said, well, they've laid on some food here. And he looked at these little fancies and was not impressed. And so he walked over. He walked over and he got one of and they also provide these tiny little slices of bread so he got he got one of these tiny slices of bread and then he got a very small slice of salami and put the salami on the top of the slice of bread and he said do you get other drinks here and i said well yes there's a there's a machine just here so he walked across the machine he leaned over and his piece of salami flopped off the bread and went splatch on the floor and we we we roared with laughter that is if people know spinal tap

as well do you remember nigel toughenall folding his canapé if you keep folding and folding that that sounds very very spinal tap. I mean, those could also be called sort of amuse-bouche, couldn't they? Yes, that's exactly it. Yeah, so Matt Upson, not amused. Not amused-bouche. By the way, just talking about the heavy rain, I've just remembered that story from last season

where O-I and our engineer ended up in his underpants. I've also just remembered when we had a similar thing john so we were going through a couple of security checks there and stephen warnock had an umbrella on him and they tried to take the parapluie although what it is over there i've no idea and they tried to take the umbrella off him in uh as as a you can't bring this into the stadium and it was absolutely hammering down with rain and stephen made it clear in no uncertain terms that the umbrella would very much be be staying with him now uh euro leagues have answered kelvin the trucker's question from last week's episode and he was asking for their favorite commentary phrases

which are only used in their countries and nowhere else for example the one that we mentioned was in brazil where they describe a goal that goes in to the top corner as where the owl sleeps so this was their response there's one lovely phrase that describes a very good pass he's done it with music uh la ap puesto con música. I don't think anybody else says that way of a beautiful pass. Archie? Germans are an interesting bunch. Sometimes they will use phrases in English,

which we don't even use in English about football. For example, oh, I mean, that goal, that's my lucky punch. And I'm like, excuse me? What? And they'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you say that in England. I'm like, we don't. So therefore, I present that.

But also maybe for somebody who's an incredibly header of the ball, they say, it's quite fun to say it, I mean, Kopfballungerheuer, which is somebody who's like a header monster. Header monster, I love it. And Christophe, last but not least? Well, yeah, I know that Louis van Gaal and Eric Den Haag have translated lots of their Dutch, basically Dutch-Flemish expressions into English when they were there.

Like, yeah, they tend to use them in press conferences, which might have sounded funny for English-speaking people. When, yeah, remember when Van Gaal said, that's another cook in a press conference at West Brom, which Albion, I was there. I couldn't stop laughing because I knew what he meant. But yeah, that's another biscuit yeah that's a funny phrase in dutch but it's not a football phrase but we have like you have top

corner and top bins and we call when in belgium or in in holland somebody scores they say in the which basically means into the t square i think it, the tool that an architect uses to draw straight corners. So into the T-square. Oh, I miss Louis van Gaal as well. We want Louis van Gaal back on the scene. Very good. That's John Bennett with the EuroLeague's team, Christophe Theriot, Guillaume Balaguet and Archie-Rhyne Tutt.

I liked, what was that? Kopf ungeheuer. Monster header. Yeah, quite like that. And we've got an email as well on a similar theme, which is from Jason from Jamaica, who lives in Massachusetts. So hello, Massachusetts. Hello, Jason.

And if you want to get in touch, by the way, tcv at bbc.co.uk about anything we talk about but anyway jason says um similar to the question about names for the top corner of goals in different languages i've noticed that the act of putting the ball through an opponent's legs has various names in different countries as well he says nutmeg is obviously quite common but i'm jamaican and we refer to it as salad but it gets weirder because a salad in jamaica traditionally is a large tomato have you guys heard any other varieties of that not not of that that the one this has taken me to john is i'm a massive fan and I do them as much as anyone, of malapropisms, you know, where people get it slightly wrong.

So occasionally, you know, whether accidentally or otherwise, you could hear someone describe a football game as a damp squid. You must have heard that one before. Yeah. Those really tickle me. A good friend of mine, and this is not sport related, who lives over in Mexico City, married a Mexican woman over there. And her English, absolutely fantastic. I mean, superb, brilliant, you know, colloquialisms, idiom and everything. But the one she didn't quite get hold of, but I think actually improved, is occasionally she would hear him say, and it's quite 70 70s 80s sort of um you know not it's not even swearing is it but he would say flipping egg oh flipping egg i can't believe that's happened she thought that was flipping egg so she would then say oh flip an egg and i think flipping egg

is such a good flipping egg is so much better than flipping egg i think so that's become a little saying in our house. Flippin' Egg. I really like Flippin' Eck. I've never heard the salad for a nutmeg. That is completely new to me. We had a great nutmeg in the Parc des Princes. It was Dembele on Bernardo Silva who then hit the crossbar.

Have you seen that? It's absolutely fantastic. That would have been one of the best goals of this. Well, certainly would have been a goal of the season. I think that would have been one of the best goals of this. Well, certainly would have been a goal of the season. I think that would have been one of the best goals I've ever seen if he'd scored that salad. Yeah, and he absolutely smashed it. Was it that shot?

Oh, he hit that so hard, didn't he, that shot? Yeah, he smacked the crossbar. The other one, John, sorry, very quickly, I've just been reminded of as well. A golfing chum of mine whose wife got got one wrong the other day she was talking to him about a friend of hers who was sort of known to be quite taciturn quite quiet and she suddenly stood up for herself in some group discussion or whatever and uh and my friend's wife said and of course well you you know helen she would she wouldn't say no to a ghost rather than boo to a goose i just think that's that's so good it's so good um pete

emailed in off the back of my cyprus uh hotel underpants story from last week if you didn't hear that then obviously that's worth going back to to listen on the uh on the on the last edition of of the commentator's view but um but pete says i recently received a replica of my favorite football shirt of all time which is the infamous 1974 1975 season y front version of the mighty york city he says picture attached what's your favorite kit one with large legible numbers on the back and maybe your least favorite kit and uh he says he says cheers from pete y front wearing york fan do you remember that kitty and which was the maroon with the big white y on the front of the

shirt yeah didn't they bring it back recently as well? Did they? Yeah. Well, I was watching the other night. I was watching Sunderland last Friday night. And this season, they're wearing the kit that they wore in the... sort of a version of the kit that they wore in the 92 FA Cup final, aren't they? Yeah, I've seen that. Which I think looks really good. That's the white with a little bit of navy.

Yeah, so a greeny-bluey design on it. Yeah. Well, the great kit for me was the Coventry City Away kit. Do you know what? The chocolate brown. I was going to mention Coventry as well. And in a similar style, the Welsh kit. Yes, yes.

Wales wore a very similar version. I think it was the same manufacturer, wasn't it? It was. It was Admiral, I think, yeah. Yeah. With the pipes running down the sides. Yeah, down both sides of the front. Yeah.

It reminds me of a top that I've got, actually. So we once went to... I've got a top at home. It's a navy top. And on each side, it's got a claret and amber stripe going down the side and we turned up at the fa media christmas drinks and we normally go quite smart on this occasion i went casual i went with the old jeans and this this navy top and everybody else is wearing a suit shirt john

and gary gary flintoff have started giving me a little bit of grief. And then the girls at the FA, Anna and Joe, as soon as I've walked into the room, saying, what are you wearing? And it looked like I was wearing a pair of braces. And so they kept on saying, rock on, Tommy. Anyway, I think John... For younger listeners. I think John was sort of like fueling

this mickey-taking throughout the whole night. And John claims... Well, I can tell you what happened. John claims... I passed on the way to the toilets. I was coming out and the England manager, Gareth Southgate, was on his way in. And I'd not seen him that night. And his opening gambit to me was, what's Denno wearing?

Which Gareth disputes because I then pulled him up on it. And I said, is it true? And he said, I can't remember that. Well, I can. And to this day, Gareth says, I can't remember the top you were wearing. Well, it's true. Anyway, going back to the nutmeg email. The salad. That perhaps could be our question, can't going back to the nutmeg email.

The salad. That, perhaps, could be our question, can't it, to the Euroleagues this week. Have they got another phrase for the nutmeg? What do they call the nutmeg? Maybe they just call it the nutmeg. But I think that's quite a good question, don't you? Yeah. No, I think there'll be loads of different terms for that across Europe in different countries, definitely. And we have a question from the Euroleagues for us this week.

We don't always fancy commentating or doing our job. There's times we just don't really want to do it, where you just rather do something else. So when that happens, how do they come around and just get themselves in front of the microphone? I hear all of them, and they never drop an ounce, their level of enthusiasm. Rubbish.

At some point, they won't have the enthusiasm. So are they faking it, or how do they get it back? I also want to hear if they really enjoy the sound of silence, because commentators are always going on and no silence basically. So I say, do they enjoy the sound of silence when they're not commentating? There we are. It's from Christophe

and Guillaume. Well, of course, when you're doing a television commentary, they say silence is golden. When you're doing a radio commentary, silence is deathly. That's true, Ian. Although there are times aren't there i think and i was thinking about this the other day funnily enough at at old trafford last weekend when they did a fantastic tribute to the late dennis law um and and before

the game there the two teams came out the captain's holding a wreath in each hand and they had a lone piper lead the two teams onto the field playing flower of scotland and i actually said to the production team i think you know obviously in radio you've got to paint the pictures and describe what's going on but i want to let that piper play i don't want to talk yeah i know that's not silence i know that sound within the silence but i do find at times even in football commentary when it can be incredibly hectic to sometimes just let the atmosphere breathe or talk or describe i mean another classic example would be you'll never walk alone you know ahead of a ahead of a big european game at anfield where you don't need

to talk do you you can just sit back and you know and let and let it talk for itself i was watching the coverage of uh celtic this week in the Champions League and again, the TV commentator on that occasion, they never spoke. They just let you'll never walk alone, play out at Parkhead. And I sometimes do that. I do it sometimes at Anfield and sometimes at the City Ground as well,

which is a very atmospheric stadium when they're singing Mull of Kintyre. I just sometimes just say, right, just soak this in. And I just think on that occasion, you can close your eyes and you can envisage the red and white scarves whether it be at Anfield or indeed the city ground and just let the pictures be created in your own head but that's the beauty of radio isn't it and what about Guillaume's question about enthusiasm I never never ever struggle with that John because I think you know I think all of us probably probably like Guillaume and the guys in the Eurole think you know i think all of us probably probably like

gilman the guys on the euro leagues you know we've got such such good jobs that i always think there's there's always something in a game whatever game it is whatever level you're at there is a story to tell isn't there and you're describing live action and i also think personally a little thing like as soon as you know you're live and you're talking there's just a natural switch on isn't there as in even even if you're not feeling a hundred percent it must be like you know walking on stage or the camera goes on if you're presenting on television suddenly it's like you're on you're live you've got a you know you you can't afford to not be on it what do you what do you what are you chuckling at who Who, me? Yes. When you said about going on TV and flicking the switch. For some reason, I immediately thought of Hair Chapman.

I don't know why. Switching his persona when the light's gone. I think we'll leave that one i think we'll leave that one there and how do you find it john on the other oh um i'm the same as you um absolutely that's what that's that's part of it you can't you know we can't suddenly think don't fancy it don't fancy it today no it's being professional isn't it but it's also i mean there's definitely there's definitely games you'll finish and you'll think, blimey, that was hard work, or blimey, the words weren't quite coming out right today,

that wasn't great. There's definitely that, isn't there? Yeah. I think there's also a sense that we are still privileged to do the job that we do. So you can, yeah, you might be feeling a bit underwhelmed about the game that you've got or, you know, whatever, but at the same time, so many people would still love to be

doing the job that we're doing if we're watching a game of football yeah if you ever feel like that you you really need to have a word with yourself don't you which we do which you do have to do sometimes well i think if if if the day ever comes where you haven't got the enthusiasm for the job or you choose not to want to go to a stadium and you you want to say, prefer to do it off-tube rather than actually go to the stadium. Tube to explain to people. So a number of commentaries are done from a studio rather than the actual ground.

Sometimes you get the option of, do you want to go to the stadium or do it off-tube? There's no substitute for actually being there. And if I actually said, oh, I just want to do it from the studio today, I think that's for me the day I'd want to retire. I wouldn't want to do a game from a studio. i would i would always want to be we had to we had to do that during covid didn't we it was occasionally we had to do that during covid

and it was grim it was grim no not for me i wouldn't want to do it anymore and i think if that ever came to that stage the day i lose my enthusiasm for the job is the day that i know then it's time to retire yeah i think we're we're all so lucky, aren't we, that with five live commentaries, full commentary games, you've always got a summariser alongside you. There's a team there. So if you are feeling a bit low as well, even on air, there's someone to spark off, isn't there? You know, so there's a conversation to get going, even if the game isn't good. You've always got someone with you to sort of find an avenue to go down or whatever.

You're not on your own. Say if you were doing a match of the day commentary for highlights, you're commentating away, you might not be feeling in great form. You've got no one to talk to there, really, during the game. You're talking to yourself, aren't you? You're talking out into the atmosphere. But if the game, and you know what it's like when you've got a bit of a duff game, I'll often say to the summariser, look, today might not be great.

So we might go left field. Because at the end of the day, you've still got to make it as entertaining as possible for the listener. You know, it might be the worst game in the world at nil-nil, but you've still got to try and make it as much fun for the person listening to it.

So I'll often say to the summariser, look, if we go left field, don't be afraid to take the mickey because we might go down this avenue. Don't know what avenue it would be, and hopefully it's not one in Portugal where we get stuck barking dogs. And now with full fun and enthusiasm,

it's time for Clash of the Commentators. Oh no. And this week, Ali, you're taking charge. Yes. So, leaderboard as it stands in Clash of the Commentators, John is top dog at the moment. He's played four games and won three of them.

I've played five and won three, and Ian's won one from five. He's bottom of the table. Yeah. It actually says in the script, John, he's getting cut adrift at the foot of the table. He's languishing. Does it say that?

He's languishing. Languishing. Is he rooted? He's rooted. At the moment john he's getting cut adrift at the foot of the table he's languishing he's languishing languishing is he rooted he's rooted at the moment he's rooted but today is another day uh you know the drill we're going to give you a category you've got to give as many correct answers as you can within that 30 seconds uh just before one of you takes the headphones off unplugs and goes away for a little bit i i think this is good. I think this will test you. And I don't think you're going to need that many to win it. I think if you had a long time to think of these, you'd come up with a lot of them. 30 seconds, I think this is going to be quite tough. Who wants to go first?

Well, I'm going to go first, I think, this week, because I've gone second a couple of weeks before. I think that gives you a little bit more thinking time. You haven't given us a clue this time. I didn't even have a chance to say anything there. My decision was taken out of my hands. I was trying to be nice to you. That's where the correspondent pulled right.

Okay. Right. So headphones off Ian. Okay. You're going to walk out of the studio. Okay. Can we actually put him in his own booth? He's actually in the BBC and Salford this week. I'm feeling very Nicholas Parsons here. Right.

Ready to go, John. Yes. So AC Milan this week have agreed to sign the Manchester City captain Kyle Walker on loan for the remainder of the season with an option to buy. This week's category is players to have played in milan and manchester so they have to have played for one of manchester city or manchester united as well as one of ac milan or inter milan so it doesn't matter the combination but they have to have played in manchester for one of the clubs i know i know and in milan for one of the clubs. I know, I know. And in Milan for one of the clubs. It's a great list of names,

but I do think in 30 seconds it's tough. Your time starts now. Milan and Manchester. Well, I suppose Kyle Walker, although he hasn't done it yet. David Beckham. Paulins. Ibrahimovic.

So Inter and Manchester United. Inter and City. That is tough. I feel there's another obvious one. Goalkeepers. You were proved right. Once you see the list, and if you have time, you'll get loads of these we're not going to allow kyle walker now in our silly games of sudden death on fantasy 606 you are allowed to use the clue in the question this time you're not you've got he's not

played yet he's not played yet so actually it would be incorrect uh david beckham absolutely right manchester united and ac milan i remember going over to the San Siro to interview him when he was playing for AC Milan he was trying to get back into an England squad at the time Laureus Sporterwood no not that time no it wasn't it wasn't a Kylie Minogue and David Beckham double up Paul Ince absolutely correct and Zlatan Ibrahimović is one of those players John who played for both Milan clubs and Manchester United but you don't get a bonus point for that. But I think three will be competitive. I really do. I do.

I do. How many are there? 32. 32. I got three out of 32. Well, some of them are hard, but you'll enjoy some of them. Right, Ian, back in the room. I've got to say, that felt very authentic.

It was almost like Family Fortunes or Mr. and Mrs. where I was outside a soundproof booth and waiting for the thumbs up to come back into the studio. Right. Did he do well? Well, do you want to know what you got to be or would you rather not know? I did. That means he didn't.

Do you want to know or not know? No, I don't want to know. You don't want to know. Okay, that's good. I'm going to give you the exact same cue that I gave John, okay? Here we go then. AC Milan have agreed to sign the Manchester City captain Kyle Walker on loan for the remainder of the season with an option to buy.

This week's category is players to have played in Milan and Manchester. So what that means is they have to have played for one of Manchester City or Manchester United and one of AC Milan or Inter Milan. OK? And I think that's enough for you. Your time starts now. Ray Wilkins, Edin Dzeko, obviously Kyle Walker. Milan.

Milan. Milan and Manchester. Milan. Milan and Manchester. Onana. Beckham. David Beckham. It's good. Ian, you have scored four. thought ray wilkins no carl walker's not yet played for ac milan yeah that doesn't count no no no no no because john said the same thing john said the same thing and he didn't get it do you think four is enough to win this game

no well you're wrong it is is. John got three. You've won. No way. You've won. Yeah. Wilkins, Dzeko, Anana and Beckham. John got Beckham, Ince and Ibrahimović, right? Now, if I gave you more time, I think you would get lots more of these. Do you want me to rattle through?

That would naturally happen, yes. Yeah. Well, you'd hope so, John. You'd hope so. I'll rattle through some correct answers happen yes yeah well you'd hope so john you'd hope so uh i'll rattle through some correct answers there were 32 all told mario balotelli would have been a correct answer lauren blanc would have been a correct answer joao cancelo uh diogo dallo mateo damian nigel de jong jeko you got diego forlan uh zlatan john mentioned, played for both Milan clubs and Manchester United. Paul Ince, John mentioned. Joe Jordan would have been a lovely answer.

Lukaku, I'm not giving them all here, but some that really stand out. Yap Stam, Veron, Vidic, Patrick Vieira played for both Milan and Manchester City. George Weir, Ashley Young won the Serie A title with Inter under Antonio Conte. But Ian, good win. That is a surprise. Climbing the leaderboard. That is a surprise.

Good game, good game. When you started asking the question, I thought you were going to say English players who'd played for Milan. So I then suddenly started stocking up on them and then it was a completely different question. I thought it was a completely different question yeah

I thought it was going that way I had Mark Hately in my head yes I had that as well yeah so that makes it

now I am three from five five Ali's three from five so we are level now at the top

of the table we are the joint leaders yes and Ian is still bottom of the table with two from six I've still got a long way to go

The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sound In focus on the Football Daily every Saturday, catch the biggest names from the Premier League and beyond as they share all with nothing off limits. We

are here to speak to Arsenal's Ricardo Calafiori. Ruben Amorim, welcome to the Football Daily. When I heard this invitation, I felt that I had to do this. Rodri, that was incredible. Thank you for having me here. In Focus, only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC

Sounds. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis. Now, Ali, last week was talking about what it's like to commentate on centre court at Wimbledon and how Marion Bartley once thought he was a runner and asked him to get some sushi a minute before you were due to do the tennis commentary, Ali. Well, it is the Australian Open finals this weekend. You'll be able to hear them on Five Live, the live commentary. But we had to ask our tennis team, Gigi Salmon and Russell Fuller,

for their experiences commentating at the Rod Laver Arena. Russ, without making too many people too jealous, I think we just have to paint a picture of our commentary position here at the Australian Open. There's some thickened glass in front of us. I can't do that during play. In fact, when I did it once, I got some very suspect looks from other members of the commentary team. The crowd were making a lot of noise. I was safe.

But I was just trying to illustrate to people listening at home how close we are to the glass, which borders the court. And we are slightly cut into the Rod Laver arena here. So we are fractionally below the players. And when they are wandering around at the back of the court, they can be just a couple of metres away from us and that's the amazing thing, isn't it, Gigi, is that we are able to see the sweat, the tension on their faces.

We're able to see the anguish on their faces, rarely the joy because when they're at the back of the court, it's during a game before the match is over and it's the stress that you detect first and foremost. But it is an incredibly privileged position. You feel like you are quite literally up close and personal as if you're in an aquarium. And these big fish swim regularly past the window. I like that description.

And it's the poker face that slips because when they swivel around to face us, you see how they really feel. So whatever their opponent is seeing, we see how they really feel. They might be cursing, they might be scrunching up their face, they might look in pain, there's anger, there's all sorts of emotions. But one thing, have you noticed, that's made this position better? Now there's a big debate. Should we have line judges? Should we not have line judges? The only reason I'm happy we have electronic line calling, so all the bodies have gone, is because I normally sit in the corner of the commentary box. I like to get tucked away. And when we had line judges,

I had a wonderful view of the line judges' bottom. Yeah. And that was quite difficult at times. The absence of bottoms has enhanced the view from here. We do get completely blocked out when the prize giving takes place, having said that, because we get a lot of photographer's bottoms lying in a glass and we end up feeling as if we have to watch the whole thing on the monitor. And the final thing I would say is it's no good if you are of a faint disposition,

because those balls can hammer against the glass. And we've been doing this for a few years now, so we rarely flinch every now and again though you're taken by surprise and you can't help taking a literal step back in the box but we would not swap it for the world brilliant gg salmon and russell fuller from melbourne so listen to them this weekend and actually we have a whole string of Premier League commentaries as well this weekend on Five Live so we have Wolves against Arsenal three o'clock Ian you're with Pat Nevin for that 5.30 Manchester City Chelsea on the Saturday that's me with Michael Brown Sunday Ali you're going to be at Tottenham Leicester that's a very interesting one with Rob Green

and I think Crystal Palace Brentford's on Sports Extra isn't it at the same time and then 4.30 on Sunday Aston Villa West Ham I will be alongside Stephen Warnock. Incidentally I think Marion Bartley actually sent me off for some Gigi Salmon

Very good Can I just mention as well so i'm actually um unusually i don't do it that often but saturday three o'clock while ian is commentating at molyneux i'm one of the reporters ian that you'll be queuing to i'm going to bournemouth against nottingham forest which i think is an absolutely given the performance that bournemouth put in last weekend against newcastle which i think is one of the premier League performances of the season so far and given the way Nottingham Forest are going I I'm really really looking forward to that match yeah for the listener who doesn't know uh we might have mentioned it before but when we when we're selecting our commentary for for the three o'clock we've got it we've got to select it

at this stage of the season, two weeks in advance. So I'd penciled in a long time ago, Liverpool Ipswich, with Liverpool being top. And then when we had the discussion, we thought, oh no, probably Wolves Arsenal affects both ends of the table. But I wonder, had we done it a week later, whether we might have actually gone for Bournemouth Forest

rather than being at Molyneux. So you're right, I think it'll be a cracker. I must mention this as well, which is a very handy and helpful piece of correspondence from Jordi Sunja, who is a football journalist and commentator for TV3, the Catalan public broadcaster based in Barcelona, who sent an email to TCV at bbc.co.uk. And this is on the Savio-Savigno debate. And Geordie says, I'm part of the team that covers Girona. So I'd like to clear Chris Sutton's doubts when Savio Moreira de Oliveira played for Girona the name

on his kit was Savio as you can easily see in many pictures he said he preferred to be called Savio but as he was still a youngster while at Troyes and Girona he appeared to be known as Savinho as well which means little Savio in Brazilian Portuguese so we could say both are correct but his more official football name is Savio keep up the good work says Geordie besides being great company for a walk through the woods your podcast is great for always learning more about the trade all the best Geord Geordie. Thank you very much, Geordie. Ian, you said, I think you said in the podcast last week, or when this got brought up, that at Girona he was Savio, and we've been calling him Savino.

That explains it. And I've got a word to have with Chris Sutton as well, because I heard him doing Tottenham game. What Tottenham game was he doing? And he was calling Dragushin, Dragushin. Not quite sure he was getting the emphasis right on on that so gonna need to pick him up on that when i next see him yeah okay good look forward to that uh we've got the great glossary of football commentary on the way uh but in the meantime we've

had suggestions again more suggestions for the commentators collective noun so this is the collective noun for a group of commentators and sam from nottingham says i'm writing with a late entry for the collective noun for commentators i'm of the strong belief that the term should be a cursing of commentators this is actually a topic i'm becoming slightly insanely passionate about i do two pub quizzes a week and I'm regularly frustrated at collective noun questions as they often have more than one answer and invariably we get burnt for not having the one on the quiz master's answer sheet. For instance, it can be both an army or a colony of frogs and don't get me started on jellyfish, he says. I'm not sure what the collective noun is for jellyfish. He says, I've made it my very optimistic aim

to create a universally accepted list of collective nouns with the following rules. The noun must start with the same letter as the group it is describing, i.e. an army of ants. There can only be one noun per group. Each group must have a unique noun. This is designed for animals, but I'd be very happy to add a cursing of commentators to my developing list. Keep up the good work. P.S. Sam says some examples of my collective nouns are below.

A bumbling of bees, a gangling of gir giraffes giraffes rearing their heads again which they do quite effectively a parade of penguins and a serenity of swans so that that is sam's contribution from nottingham so thank you for that and also from ewan on the same subject collective noun for commentators, a cacophony of commentators pleasing both alliteratively and phonetically, he says, came to mind with the description of the radio commentators as being like a meat market, which we had for Southend last week. And I've just looked up jellyfish, John, and I think I knew this,

or this is certainly one of them, a smack of jelly really jellyfish no that's a new one on me so straight into the great glossary of football commentary again which is where we're building a collection of football terms words phrases whatever it happens to be the kinds of things that you hear in football uh commentaries uh and this one comes from rob in brighton who says dear tcv an idea for the glossary of football is a rasping drive he said i've just heard ian dennis described a shot thus by sobos lie during the brentford liverpool game uh which was was that last Saturday? Yes it was, wasn't it? The definition of the adjective rasping is harsh, sounding or unpleasant. It's misuse

to describe a powerfully struck shot would seem to merit its inclusion in the glossary. With kind regards, Rob in Brighton. I did. I'd seen that one crop up this week and I couldn't remember I actually said I've used that recently but I couldn't remember where I'd used it but yes i remember the effort now from sabos life do you

use that rasping yeah i've definitely used that without thinking properly about what it actually means and what is the rasping nature of the shot is it the noise of the ball being hit you know what why are we describing it as rasping? Because that's not an unpleasant sound. Yeah, interesting. Should go in, though, definitely. Yes, I think definitely that. Did we use any of the glossary this week? Because looking down the list,

I definitely used fellow countrymen this week. Did you? Deliberately? No, I found myself saying it because it was in my mind. In the Manchester United game, I didn't use fellow countryman, but I did say, I think it was like his fellow Belgian. So I didn't use the countryman. I also used slide rule pass, I think, last weekend,

which we included in it last week. Yeah. I do have another one, though, to add to it. I don't think I've actually thrown one in yet, but a brace. Oh, yeah. Because I was doing one, though, to add to it. I don't think I've actually thrown one in yet, but a brace. Oh, yeah. Because I was doing some homework recently, and I think Cody Gakpos had five braces for Liverpool, but he's yet to score a hat-trick. And I thought, brace.

You'd never go to the bar and say, could I have a brace of points, would you? You might. Or could I have a brace of buns, and you go to the bakery. Brace of capon? And that does come from, that comes from, I think I'm right in saying, somebody might put me right on this, but doesn't that go back to the sort of, the world of shooting,

where you bag a brace of partridge? Well, yeah. Isn't that right? That's why I said capon. Can I chuck one in very quickly, John? This is reverse glossary in a way. So we're being asked for our thoughts on this. But actually, I wonder if this could be a really good one for our listeners really quickly.

This comes from a Palomine, golfing Palomine Smithers, who's been listening to the pod. And he's thought about this for a while. He says, hello, chaps. Long time listener. First time texter. I wonder if you can help me out with something that's bothered me for a while. I'm looking for a satisfactory name for the period of time in a football match when a soundly beaten team suddenly starts playing like Barcelona or Brazil. So they're out of the game, they're gone, and then suddenly they switch it on.

So in the same way we have extra time or even Fergie time, I wonder if we might be able to come up with a name for this period whereby a beaten team suddenly throw off the shackles in vain and you see that in lots of sport don't you the game has gone the pressure's off you see golfers do it on the final day of a tournament suddenly shoot the best round of the week come flying up the leaderboard they can't win the tournament i quite like that i think maybe we should put that to our our listeners on tcv at bbc.co.uk yeah like in a test match when a team is heading for a heavy defeat in the final innings

and someone will get a brilliant century. Or the match is heading for a draw on a turgid pitch and they get 175 not out. Because they would say, can they do it on a wet night in Stoke? Yes, yes. Don't they?

They do. But I don't think there's a team where you would associate a team with a, you know, can They do. But I don't think there's a team where you would associate a team with a, you know, can they do a, I don't know, a Lincoln, a Lincoln fight back or something like that. There isn't one team that you'd associate with a stunning fight back, is there? No. Or where they throw the shackles off.

So that, if you have suggestions, contributions to tcv at bbc.co.uk. And one other one I'm going to throw in because i mentioned it i said this phrase a couple of times this week and i thought that should go in because i was mentioning the match that you were commentating on ian at old trafford the manchester united rangers match and twice i described that as we've got so on wednesday night as this and then on thursday night the little matter of manchester united rangers night the little matter of Manchester United Rangers or the small matter of Manchester United Rangers and I thought that should go in there well I deliberately did not use the Battle of Britain Battle of Britain I refused to get drawn into

that so I did not mention it and likewise I will not be saying Battle of Britain when I do Aston Villa Celtic no I heard you say the small matter John and you said it with a knowing wink and I thought that is going to appear on this podcast he said that deliberately yeah yeah right that's it I've got to go to the dentist before you've got other things to do before you go just uh just a word to the Armfield family as well yes I mentioned it in commentary at Old Trafford on Thursday it was seven years since we lost Jimmy and so

just to say to everybody Duncan and everybody else that we still miss him yes and do you know

what I really wanted to mention that on Wednesday because that was the anniversary

wasn't it on Wednesday and not only that we were at the Parc de France where Jimmy

was the manager of the European Cup finalists Leeds United when they when they you know were very unfortunate not to win that final and uh and but with the match and everything that was going on I just didn't end up with an opportunity to do it so I'm pleased you've mentioned it there Ian as well because of course he is so much missed by all of us even now after all of these years very much so so that is it for this episode of the commentator's view the next episode of the football daily will be in focus with Matthijs de Ligt which I think is an interview that's been done by Dion Dublin so So look out for that on the Football Daily feed on BBC Sounds.

And we will be back next week with another episode of the Commentator's View. Who knows, this might be the last one, as far as we know. Oh no, I'm hearing there is going to be another one next week. All right, very good. Yeah, but no, there's got to be more in the pipeline because they're investing in webcam for the home studios, which is a promising sign. That's very good news, isn't it?

It is. That'll be like Mark Chapman on television. That's just what I need, more technical things. That'll be like Mark Chapman. The lights will go on at home and we'll really... I mean, we might have to have makeup and everything. I might have to get new teeth well I'll tell you

what we do need we need a new agent because if they're going down that avenue then we might need to have a word with with Hair Chapman and try and get his agent

in that got the deal for match of the day did you by the way did you and I'm sure you would have done did you see his that he did that midweek match of the day so they officially announced properly didn't they that it's going to be mark kelly and

gabby did you see his little hello and his goodbye on the wednesday night match of the day i didn't hear his goodbye i saw his intro the intro was really good and alan shearer is very amusing as well i text alan straight away saying very good very good yeah so so mark gave it the old he just gave it a sort of linem-esque look at the the camera and said well i thought i might as well get the practice in which i thought was great and then micah and alan leapt all over him didn't they in micah was like the ink's not even dry yet and alan was like you didn't take long did you which i thought was great but then at the end after they'd finished micah and alan sort of wrapped up their punditry and mark said something like it was something like,

well, you know, Newbram on the way, but you two have done OK tonight, so we might think about keeping you on. Which I thought was very good. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time. Solskjaer has won the European Cup for Manchester United. So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? He strengthened character, his determination,

the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive. He can be charming. He can be frightening. Godin is the best. It's as simple as that. I'm Kelly Cates,

and this is Sporting Giants, Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to fail. I'm Kelly Cates, and this is Sporting Giants' Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel, but I couldn't feel. Listen on BBC Sounds.