Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Sadiq Mourinho & Roy of the Rovers

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

John Murray & Ian Dennis are joined by former BBC Wales football correspondent Rob Phillips. They discuss his journey following the Wales national team and seeing Gareth Bale’s rise from the youth team. Herr Chapman claims another sticky-handed victim dipping into their sweets on the radio. More football lookalikes, England v Wales in Clash of the Commentators and there’s a high bar to get into the Great Glossary of Football Commentary.03:00 Rob Phillips’ journey following Wales 09:50 Following Gareth Bale’s rise from the start 19:50 Herr Chapman is at it again… 21:40 John’s Mike Gatting incident 24:05 More football lookalikes & soundalikes 29:10 Play-by-play commentary sharing 36:20 England v Wales in Clash of the Commentators 45:20 What will enter the Great Glossary?BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this weekend: Fri 1945 England v Albania in World Cup qualifier, Sun 1430 Man City v Chelsea in the Women’s Super League, Mon 1945 England v Latvia in World Cup qualifier.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the football daily. Hello, welcome to the commentators view where we take you behind the microphone and lift the lid on life as five live commentators. I'm John Murray. With us for this one is the BBC senior football reporter, Ian Dennis. Hello. Hello to you.

There's no Alistair Bruce Ball this week. Is this the first one that Ali's missed? No, he has missed another one. This is his second. Yeah, so Ali is on assignment, as we say, i.e. he's on his holidays and in the absence of Ali we have gone fully international this week during an international window and joining us as it says here all the way from Cardiff the now former BBC Wales football correspondent

it's none other than Rob Phillips. Well thank you for inviting me. Yeah and I suppose you should explain to listeners how it comes to be that you are now former as opposed to current. Well it was my decision let's quickly make that clear. Quite simple really I'm coming up to retirement age and at the moment I'm enjoying some time off although it is quite strange in International Week, I will say that. But I will be going to Wales against Kazakhstan tomorrow night and I'm going to enjoy it as a sort of onlooker and a fan rather than having to do all my prep about the Kazakhstan pronunciation.

Listen Rob, I saw some of your BBC Wales colleagues last week and they did tell me that when Craig Bellamy held his, I think it was his squad announcement conference, he was slightly discombobulated that there was no Rob Phillips in the front row. He and I go back an awful long way as I remind him occasionally and with Craig Bellamy you know you will get as we would say in the trade radio gold if he wants to speak and he does so a lot now as Wales manager then you know you'll get something good off him. He is never dull or boring is Craig Bellamy and And actually you have to say, since he's taken over Wales from Rob Page,

it's not been dull or boring at all. And he's unbeaten. First time a Wales manager has done that at the start of his reign in six games. So fair play. It's quite an experience interviewing Craig Bellamy. So I hope to maybe see him briefly tomorrow, but not to interview, just to say hello. Yeah. Listen Yeah listen Rob the three of us Ian weren't we? We were dead

keen to get you on because of the wealth of experience that you've got. I mean you are an institution on the radio in Wales you know I don't think that that understates it does it? All of the decades that you've worked there and you're phoning as well which I think has been so so popular over the years. Call Rob it's no longer it's now called the Radio Wales Sports phone in. Well that's very kind of you to say some people would say I should be in an institution but no it's it's it's been brilliant fun of work for the BBC for 27 years and became the football

correspondent in 2013 but I've been covering Wales because I was on the the South Wales Echo for 10 years before that. So it's been nearly well over 30 odd years covering Wales in particular which has always been my highlight. And of course I became the football correspondent at exactly the right time because I'd seen all the disappointments. I was at Romania in 93. I was there in 2003 when Mark Hughes' side got pipped to a place in Euro 2004 by Russia in a playoff. And then in 2013 when I took over, we really didn't know what was going to happen

but my word Chris Coleman helped cross the Rubicon and since then I've been to a World Cup first BBC Wales commentator to go since 1958 and Another Euros as well and promotion to the Nations League Elite level under Rob Page as well. So it's been, it's been quite a journey, I have to say. And with that in mind, Rob, what was it like then for that first Saturday after as you say 27 years with the BBC when you weren't working?

How strange did it feel when you weren't behind the mic? Yeah, Saturdays is still the oddest day I have to say, but I've been going to games so I'm sort of in and around but I don't miss the, fair to say the day to day, drudgery is the wrong word because there's never been a day in my career where I've ever thought I really don't want to go to work today. I'm sure you too are in the same situation. Getting up to appear on breakfast? Oh, that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. You could do it from your bed now, can't you, John? That's the thing.

Unbeknownst to people, you're actually broadcasting from between the sheets and you're thinking, well, there are worse ways of... I don't think I've done that before. No, I don't think I have either. I think recently, Rick Edwards on Breakfast on Five Live, for a very early hit did ask me what I was wearing that morning, which was an answer I didn't want to get into.

And did you reveal all? No, I didn't. I didn't get into that. Do you want to reveal all now? No. In so many ways, you should say. I listened to the podcast last week while I was in Spain and you were talking about, you'd had a question about how do they decide in a joint commentary, a double commentary, who

goes first and I remember John, you may not remember this, but Euro 2016 Belgium against Wales, I was expecting you to take the last half of each half and you said to me, I don't know if you remember this you said to me Rob if Wales pull off something ridiculous here was that that effect if they surprise everybody and beat Belgium I think we should have the Welsh accent on the commentary and so it transpired of course so you So you had the How Robson Cano goal. I had forgotten that. You had that, which everybody asked me about.

How did you comment on the How Robson Cano goal? Well, actually I didn't. That was John Murray. But I had the Sam Vogts goal which sealed it. The 3-1 goal. And I see Sam Vogts cut a lot now because he works for us as well. And he still remembers that going on. He said that and this is where it's not a legacy as such but people remember you not because of what you look like but because of the

voice and you know I went to summoning Wrexham last season and I walked into this place it was a forum the night before they were going to get promoted again, under Phil Parkinson as you know, and when I went to go to this place I opened my mouth and they said, God, you are the other guy off the radio aren't you? And I said yes and he said, and this is what struck me, he said, your voice has been the accompaniment to all my highs and lows in football, watching Wales in particular. And that's where you realise the resonance that the job we do has.

I think when you get to a certain age, I find this increasingly that exactly that conversation will happen. And people who are not so young now will say I've grown up listening to you. I actually had it this week when I actually went to Prime Minister's questions this week for the Matt Cholley program on Five Life and afterwards met for the first time Henry Zefman, the BBC's political reporter, I think he is. Anyway, his opening gambit was I've grown up listening to you. And I mean, he must be in his 30s now. And I'm thinking, here we go again. But that's what happens, isn't it, Rob?

There's time passes. You do actually, without knowing it, and you know, this is totally unwitting, you do become part of the fabric of people's lives. If you think about it, it's quite a responsibility on our part then, isn't it? But we are part of that for people we are part of the the fabric of sport Yeah, it just happens naturally and and when we talk about the conversation you and I had in 2016 the euros and how you divvy it up Ian you and I have just been having that very conversation

Haven't we about because Ian and I will both be commentating along with well Matthew Upson tonight and Leon Osman and it's Rob Green and Izzy Christensen isn't it on Monday anyway we'll both be commentating we've had that conversation haven't we you know who's gonna go first and who's gonna go second and you still haven't told us we still haven't actually resolved that but we will do before he leaves everything to the last minute if he's booking a train he will not book the train ticket in advance he'll just turn up at a station and then all of a sudden he'll hop on for a train and he just leaves everything to the last minute whereas I am the other side of the

spectrum I want everything planned organized I need to know it drives him and indeed producer Gary up the wall. He's the correspondent, Robbie, does what he wants. Yeah, absolutely. But a certain someone tends to set the starting time for this podcast and it isn't me or Ali. Rob, I must ask you as well, just to pick out, you've given us a broad brush stroke on that Welsh experience that you've had covering the Welsh national team.

But I mean Gareth Bale, part of that. And you, your career, you were in the brilliant position to see that right at the outset, weren't you? Yeah, interesting story actually, John. When I was on the South Wales Echo, it was a midweek and I had nothing much to do. I was friendly with Brian Flynn, the then Wales Under-21 manager, and they were playing a friendly down in Port Talbot. And I said, is it worth me coming down? He said, yeah, come down. He said, we've got this kid at Southampton who's really good. And he said, we've got high hopes for him. So as I walked in I

was covering Cardiff for the Echo then and I knew I recognized a gentleman who was Chris Pike a Cardiff player his father so I said hello mr. Pike how are you and he said yeah I'm fine I said what on earth are you doing here and he said oh my grandson is playing he I said who's that he said, yeah, I'm fine. I said, what on earth are you doing here? And he said, oh, my grandson is playing. I said, who's that? He said, oh, Gareth Bale. And I said, wow. I said, I hear quite good things. Well, anyway, he was terrific that afternoon, galloping up and down the left-hand side. And then I realized just how good he was. And there's a former BBC World's sport presenter called Bob Humphphries who sadly passed away now. He was a neighbour of Gareth Bales and he pushed big time about him and he was absolutely spot-on. Bales has been, I say

one in a generation. Wales has always had that one player, Ian Rush and Ryan Giggs and John Charles before that. but Gareth Bale has superseded everything and if you think that, how he changed the course of Welsh history, if you remember before 2016 the first qualifier was in Andorra and Wales went behind in that game. Edith Fons Limer if I remember rightly was the penalty taker so they were 1-0 down. Bale pulled the goal back about 20 minutes in. But at half time the FAW people had to walk past the press box and I said to one of them, gosh if we don't beat Andorra you've got a decision to make

over Chris Coleman haven't you? And they didn't demur from that. They sort of nodded and looked worried, as a one-all in Andorra was not a good result. Anyway, Gareth Bale, of course, steps up for a free kick with about 10 minutes to go, takes it, it's retaken, he scores the second goal with the retaken free kick. And as I said, said scored I think it was seven of the 11 goals Wales scored in that qualification campaign scored the goal against Belgium at home which really gave the belief that Wales would qualify and He has been Unbelievable since scored some great goals

I always said when Wales are in their prime, particularly that 2016 team, for Wales to play well Aaron Ramsey had to play well, but for Wales to win they just needed Gareth Bale because he would pull games out from nowhere and that's how Wales qualified for two euros and the World Cup and okay Qatar didn't really work out but that game in Andorra is seen now as transformative and that whole campaign and of course we've talked about how long the campaign went on once Wales got to France but I've got to tell you that they qualified in Zenitza and this sums up Welsh football to me. Chris Coleman walked into a mix zone where we had a camera.

I was the first person he saw when he came through the door because I'd perched myself right there ready to get him. And he gave me a big hug and he said, Rob, he said, that's for people like you who've seen us through all the, well, rubbish rubbish I'll use but that wasn't the word he used. He said when we've been terrible again not a word he used for all these years that's for people like you and he set us off on a trip which was unforgettable to be honest. Did you commentate on the FA CUP title to Ninian Park in 2001 Cardiff City against Leeds United? I didn't but I

was there. It was a bare pit atmosphere wasn't it? I've got to say that is probably one of the most intimidating atmospheres I've experienced on these shores. I've been away to Belgrade, I've been to Croatia, where you've come across an atmosphere, Turkey, where you're thinking, blimey, this is feisty here. But that was raw at Ninia bars that day. There was bottles and objects being thrown from the crowd. In fact, I later spoke to David Batty and David Batty loves that type of game,

that combative sort of like atmosphere and style approach on the pitch. But he actually told me, he said they were very close to actually walking off the pitch that day, League United. And then at the end of the game, I never did ask Norman Hunter what happened, but I'd have been lovely. I'd have been really interested to see the outcome of it.

There was a gentleman, so correct me if I'm wrong, at Ninian Park the press box was one long line, wasn't it, on the back row? Yes, it was. From my memory. Yeah. And there was a gentleman because it really, it was intimidating. There was a rawness about the whole place. And there was a fellow walking down the line going, Welsh, English, Welsh, English.

And I said to Norman, I said, Norman, I said, I've got to go and get the post-match interviews. And I left Norman there on the microphone. And I would love to have seen the response when he went, Welsh, English. Because Norman would have said, without a doubt, he'd have said English to see what would have happened.

And nobody asked Norman what happened there. But that was the occasion where Jonathan Overend our five was I was working for radio leads at the time Jonathan Overend was working for Radio Five and he got thrown out to the ground for well Sam Hamann took exception to some of his questioning yeah so he was actually thrown out of Ninian Park and I think he had his recording equipment confiscated. I think he did, yeah. I spoke to Jonathan Overender about it and if you remember Ian as well, Sam Hammam, you mentioned him, he walked around the pitch, didn't he, before

the game. Really working up the fans. On a similar vein, I remember John Hartson playing for Luton against Cardiff City. I think it was a fifth round tie at Ninian Park. And you know the stand opposite where the press box was, was known as the Bob Bank. And that was where all the sort of vocal Cardiff fans were. And I remember Kerry Kerry Williams saying I looked up when I was playing for Luton and they were really throwing they were throwing pies they were throwing cups at me he said and they were my mates from the Rhonda so yeah. I remember going there to Ninian Park in my very early commentary days I remember going when I was working in independent local radio with TFM,

and I went to cover Middlesbrough, Lenny Lawrence's Middlesbrough at Cardiff City at Ninian Park, and from memory, we were up on the gantry, which was, the spectators were below us. And I remember that as being one of the early hostile atmospheres that I experienced. And I remember thinking,

crikey, it's like England-Wales every week here. Must be. What I would say now, in a different way, every Wales game now is more than just a game, it's an occasion, it's an event. And that's where Welsh football has really come forward since the success in the Euros in 2016 that Amir Ahed is now famous.

Again, I'll tell you a story. The first game in Qatar, the morning of the first game, I went on the Today program on Radio 4. Not in the sport, which I've done plenty of times, but they wanted the last hit to be from Qatar on the day that Wales were going to play in the World Cup for the first time since 1958. And one of my favourite broadcasters was Misha Hussein. Fantastic broadcaster, loved what she did. And in a few minutes I was waiting to go on, they

said, oh Rob, Misha wants a quick word with you. I said, oh right, okay. So she said, morning Rob, thanks for coming on. She said, what's the song the Wales fans sing? She said, how do you pronounce it? I said, do you mean, Hen Lardvan Haddai? She said, well no, that's the anthem isn't it? I said yeah I said it's Hen Ladvan Hadai. Is it that one she said? I think it's something I said oh do you mean Amar O'Heed the David Ewan song? That's the one she said. I said tell me again I said Amar O'Heed. Thank you. So we did the interview, I think it was her and Nick Robinson together, and at the end she said right. That's it from us but on this historic day we thought we would

leave you with the Welsh football anthem Ama Ohid sung by David Ewan who happens to be in Qatar to support the national team, also to raise the profile of Wales and the Welsh language. And of course, as with Misha Hussain, she absolutely nailed the pronunciation as if she was a fluent Welsh speaker. But it just shows where Welsh football had got to. Listen, Robert, it's great to have you, Willis. I'm very much enjoying your memories. And I know that you listened to the commentator's view of last week when you might remember that we played a clip of Mark Chapman catching Ian Dennis sticky-handed with his hand in a packet of sweets. I heard that live, Ian, and it did tickle me and it was just by hearing the sound of the rustling

of the bag. Well this week Hare Chapman has been at it again. I just think it's that final action, that final execution, appreciation in the past and I think for Chelsea I think he's just getting enough bodies in the box as well. Who's done the Ian Dennis reaching for the sweets whilst the microphones are still on? Come on. That was me, Chappers. That was me. Which sweets though?

That's too many times working with him, isn't it? Yeah, that's the Ian Dennis influence. It's not good hanging around with those people. You've got yourself a reputation. Well, I tell you what, I think we've converted Herr Chapman because whilst I was at St. George's Park this week, obviously doing the England media duties

and watching trading, I had a missed call from him. And so the voicemail went something along the lines of, can I speak to Mike Gatting, please? So anyway, I text him back, I tried calling him back, but he didn't answer as I say. We'll never get him on the pod, he never answers his phone. Anyway, so I text him back, Mike Gatting question mark,

and he said, so he'd been listening to last week, he said, Mike Gatting always used to protect his stumps, like I was referring to when I was playing cricket. So he is a regular listener to this pod. You've got a little bit of Mike Gatting about you No, these days don't you think what with my handshake? He is by the way, I met Mike Gatting one time He has got the hardest handshake. I have ever ever Encountered right I've got a Mike Gatting story for you

Which is and I will never have a bad word said about Mike Gatting, because in my very, very, very early days, when I was still at doing my radio journalism training, one of our tasks was to do a documentary, like a half hour program. And mine was, and it tells you how long this was, this was before Durham actually were admitted to first class county cricket. And my program was about their bid to become a first class county. Anyway, Middlesex were playing at Darlington and an out west trophy match.

And at the time the captain of Middlesex was also the captain of England, Mike Gatting. So I went along, rookie, fresh faced reporter with my recording equipment, my EWR, did this, which was gonna be the absolute centerpiece of my half-hour program with Mike Gatting. Came out as good as gold, did the interview, 15 minutes, finished the interview,

and in the classic rookie style, I said, thank you very much, Mike, really appreciate that. Went away, clicked the thing. I said, thank you very much, Mike. Really appreciate that. Went away, took the thing. I know what's going on. And the tape machine hadn't started. I'd still I still had the pause button on. No, so I had not recorded any of this interview. And I was, I thought, oh, what am I going to do?

I'm going to have to go back to Mike Gatting and ask him if he'll do it again and so I did I sort of sheepishly went back to the middle sex dressing room knocked on the door. I said is there any chance of a quick word with Mike Gatting? He came to the door and I said Mike I'm afraid it didn't record and he said he said and he sort of cuffed me around the ear and he said You silly boy. He said come on. Let's do it again. He did it again He did it again for me and I you know, I was so grateful of that. Yeah for him doing that Would you say he looks like Stanley Tucci?

Is that why you said that there is a resemblance between me and Mike? Not terribly sure about that, but this has been a bit of a thing, haven't we? We've actually had some, because we've discussed this on the on this podcast, which by the way, you can get in touch with us, tcv at bbc.co.uk for your emails. And we welcome voice notes as well to 08000 289 369. And we've had some more football lookalikes come in. Those in a moment, but first a soundalike from Mel. Let's have a listen.

He's very nervous underneath. I can see his jumper going in and out with his heartbeat pounding out of his chest. Terrified. Well, I can't concern myself with other people's business, you know, on our own, and there's plenty of it so my focus is on that that's not bad is it that's a good one Tyson Fury and Sean Deitch Sue in Ashford has suggested that Jose Mourinho and the London mayor Sadiq Khan

are lookalikes yeah I can see that this is one that has been mentioned and is very accurate Stephen in Belfast says the best sporting lookalike is Brian Harman, the former Open Champion and Australian cricketer Ricky Ponting, which I remember Brian Harman being asked about Ricky Ponting and whether Ricky Ponting was on Brian Harman's radar in the slightest. I've got to say though, I don't agree with Robbie who said, Rude Van Nistelrooy, Morley's Manchester United playing days, and the mother from Malcolm in the Middle, Lois, put the two photos together and please tell me you see it also. Robbie, I don't.

I don't either. I've got to say, I'm looking at that picture. I just don't. I don't either I gotta say I'm looking at that picture I just don't. No I'm not getting that and also we've we've had communication from His Majesty's ambassador to Estonia Ross so there's another one on the list Ian Estonia. Yes the world tour. The world tour starts in Thailand and then can move up to Estonia. Yeah, well we've been to Estonia, haven't we, with England? Yes. Have you, has that been one of your destinations with Wales?

Estonia, let me think. Yes, I think I did. Or was it, I've got a feeling we played Estonia in lockdown in Covid days. Yes, so it was one of those. Well, we went there before and it was beautiful, wasn't it? It was autumn time and Tallinn was spectacular. Anyway, so Ross, the ambassador to Westonia, who's obviously got plenty of time on his hands, Ross in Tallinn says, the Ipswich manager, Kieran McKenna,

who has been mentioned by me in this context before because I think he's got a definitely I think he's got Phil Neville about him but but Ross says Kieran McKenna and the coach in Bend It Like Beckham which was played by Jonathan Reese Myers. Yeah I can see that. Yeah. Have you not listened to every podcast, apologies, but have you had... You're not neither have I, Rob.

He only listens, Rob, when he appears on it. When he's on... Have you had Michael Balak and Matt Damon? Which I think is possibly the best looker like I've seen. I might need to look at that. I think it's a belter. Matt Damon and Michael Balak. Other emails that we've had.

Here's this one from Joseph who says, dear all brackets and hair Chapman if you're listening. Loving the show much better than the Monday night club. After Ali shared his wasp in the mouth story, many weeks ago I felt I should share mine, but with its bigger and more resilient cousin. Joseph says, When I went out for my run on the day of my wedding I saw a bee head straight towards my nose and swiftly disappear into it. As a reflex, similar to a professional footballer's nasal passage clearing technique I managed to eject it out of

my nostril miraculously it did not result in me getting stung and attending my wedding day with lots of questions to answer that's never happened to you Rob I presume? No I've been petrified by wasps because I'm not a great fan of wasps although I try not to kill them if they come close, but try to swap them away. Please do set the record straight on that. Yeah quite. Well as David Attenborough, I remember David Attenborough being asked, so what's the point of a wasp? And he said well if you're a wasp there's a lot of point. And I've always gone by that, but no I'm not being stung while I've been

commentating, thank goodness I did manage to eat a chicken and mushroom pie while I was commentating once I was quite proud of that. That's an achievement yeah and you must have you must have eaten a pie or two while you've been commentating I guess you'd be. No no I always I always wait for the pies at half I mean that is one of the joys of going to Scotland so very soon going up to do a Saturday, three o'clock Celtic again. I mean, you can't beat a kilipie, but the ones at Celtic are not that far behind, I've got to say.

So I might have one or two at the break. And Gary Flintoff has just shown me a picture of Matt Damon and Michael Ballack, which is not... I'd give it seven out of 10. Not bad at all. Yeah, OK, I'll sell for that. Listen, we were talking about sharing commentary, which Ian and I are doing at the moment with England, but also we did it last weekend, didn't we, and for the Carabao Cup final.

And on the subject of sharing commentary, Sean has written in, not from Wales, Rob, but from New South Wales, and he says, in the AFL in Australia, every radio network has dual commentators and dual summarizers. They switch every 30 to 45 seconds play by play. Can you imagine that? That would be very confusing, wouldn't it? We did the, when I covered the Northeast, that the time we were Derby,

we would actually have a Newcastle commentary on one frequency and a Sunderland commentary on the other. But I can't imagine ever sort of like merging the two. So you do a Sunderland attack, then followed by a Newcastle attack. You'd have to be very switched on, wouldn't you, to do that. And there's also an email from Vasco from Leeds, slightly surprisingly, and he says, hi all, I've been an avid listener of the podcast since its inception, which makes it sound as though it's been around for years,

but only since December. And he says, I just wanted to address the origin of the park, the bus idiom mentioned on the last episode as I'm Portuguese myself. There we are, That's the explanation. Um, we were served by a Portuguese words. I won't be last night. Eduardo. Yes.

Yeah. Uh, anyway, Vasco says after a bit of research, the origin of the term seems to be attributed to the 1984 La Liga season where a journalist referred to racing Santander's tactics against Real Madrid and Barcelona as parking the bus. It seems that this phrase then spilled over into Portuguese football lexicon. Mourinho then used the phrase just a few weeks into his first Premier League season following a 0-0 draw against Tottenham, where he actually said, and I quote, as we say in my country, they brought the bus and they left the bus in front of the goal

I also wanted to add says Vasco I'm a big fan of La Liga and when I watch matches involving Spanish teams I turn on a Spanish radio station called radio copy On this Spanish station each one of Real Madrid Barcelona and Atletico Madrid has their own specific commentator This past Sunday when Barcelona and Atletico Madrid has their own specific commentator. This past Sunday when Barcelona and Atletico Madrid met, both commentators commentated on the match at the same time, with one commentating when Barcelona had the ball and once it was turned over the Atletico Madrid commentator would then be the one to commentate. I just wondered how you would feel about doing that yourselves.

It certainly does not seem like an easy thing to do. I've got a proposal for you so obviously it's too late to do it ahead of England Albania but on Monday night I'll do England and you can do Latvia. I think we'll have to I think I'll have to refer that one up. Take plenty of sweets with you John to keep yourself occupied I would. The big downfall I see with that is what if it's a turgid midfield battle I mean I've been in plenty of games where the whole thing is about the the fight in the engine room as we call it and who knows what happens then yeah I think for football it's got the ability to get to

to Messi whereas in sort of an obviously they do it in Spain, but with like a rugby league or American football, you could do it in plays, couldn't you? Whether they have the plays or the downs or whatever it is. So I think it might be easier to implement in those different sports. I think it would be very, very complicated for football, particularly if it was a frenetic game. Yeah. Once commentated on Mark Hudson, the Cardiff captain scoring from 58 yards so the ball was in his own half so I imagine that again it was a I remember it was

the ball was bouncing around probably in the opposition possession then suddenly he came in and whacked it and it went all the way into the goal. What happens then? Is a very good point. So anyway, emails all welcome pcb at bbc.co.uk and also voice notes to 08 289 369. The 72 Plus on the Football Daily. I'm Aaron Paul. And I'm Jobe Makenagh. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. We're punching well above our weight already.

We're a part-time team in a full-time league. Hopefully we can stay in the league and the ASDA. We're in a great position at the moment and long may that continue. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only and the HDA. We're in a great position at the moment and long way that continues. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Commentator's View on the Football Daily podcast. BBC Radio 5 Live.

Now it is time for Clash of the Commentators. Last week was it... It was Connor against Ali. Now if you'd have listened you'd have known. Well you did tell me in the aftermath of last week but I couldn't remember who the two participants were. But I also told you I was traveling with Connor to Suffolk and when you called me in the car I said I've got a special guest with me so you still couldn't remember that either. Well I did and, well I did lead you up the garden path a little bit there, because you put the countdown theme on.

Do you remember? Well yeah, we did that, you didn't do that. No, no, but I knew, and I said it was kind of right at the end. Anyway, how did the journey go by the way? Very good. Good. I arrived for the second race at Cheltenham, at two o'clock.

Well done. So last week it was Ian against Connor McNamara in an exhibition match, which is what we call these Rob when it's when we do have a guest on and they're involved in this, but it was the first ever nil-nil draw. And I should reveal as well that you did ask me the question and I didn't get one despite hitting you with probably many of the names that were mentioned. It was the hardest question we've had. And I should reveal as well that you did ask me the question and I didn't get one despite hitting you with probably many of the names that were mentioned. It was the hardest question we've had.

Yeah. Now this is a good one. This is a good one and I think you'll enjoy, both of you will enjoy this question and hopefully... I'm skeptical, I'll be honest John, that we will both enjoy it but I'm heartened by the fact that I may not be the only one to ever finish on nil. Well exactly, the bar has been, it couldn't be any lower, so there we are. So it is going to be, Rob, you're going to take on Ian this week, we've decided that in advance and this is how it works.

I give you a category and you have 30 seconds, you'll hear the countdown music to give as many correct answers as you can. And Ian will have to go first. Normally there's a bit of two and throw over who goes first, but because we are in the same room, Ian is going to have to go first here. So what we're going to do, Rob, is disconnect you for a short time. Okay. Yeah, he's gone. Rob has been silenced. Okay. Um, and a ready in. Okay. So here we go. And as I say, it's not a bad question this, but I

think you'll, you'll have to, you'll have to be on your toes, but it's not bad. So here we go. It is the world cup qualifiers are starting this week with England playing Albania and Wales against Kazakhstan. England actually played Wales at the last World Cup, you might remember, a 3-0 win for England in Qatar, which knocked Wales out and meant that England topped the group. I want you to name any player to have featured in that match. Oh, that's a bit harsh. Wales versus England.

Rob covered the game, I didn't cover the game. Well, stop buying time. Wales versus England at the 2022 Qatar World Cup and we will add an extra point for each goal scorer you can name. And the time starts now. Okay, so, Pickford Walker, Stones Maguire,

Kane, Henderson, Bellingham, Rice, Phillips, who'd have been left back? Can't think of the left back. Wales would have had Ramsey, that have had Gareth Bale, who would have been in goal? Hennessy? Errr... I couldn't think. Not bad. That was not bad. Well it was, but it wasn't at the game. That was somewhere else.

Don't say anything. Don't give it away. Rob, are you back with us? I am. I'm dreading this. Yeah, well, you'd be right to dread it. It's all right, Rob, you've got a massive advantage. I must tell you, Rob, it is a joyous moment when the producer Nathan says to you, you're presenting it this week.

So, you know, so I can sit back and fully enjoy it. As I said, I've been really looking forward to this, apart from this moment. Apart from this moment. Well, you'd be right to think like that. Can I just say Rob, all the pressure is on you. Don't listen to him. You're our special guest and there's no need for that sort of behaviour. And as competitive as ever. If you don't win, it's terrible.

Ignore him. Right, If you don't win, it's, it's, ignore him. Right. Okay. Here we go. Rob. So question is the world cup qualifiers are starting this weekend. Uh, England are playing Albania. Wales playing Kazakhstan, as we've mentioned, uh, England actually played Wales at the last world cup, which you will of course remember three, no win for England in Qatar, which knocked Wales out and meant that England top the group. So Rob, the question is, I want you to name any player to have featured in that match. Wales against England at the 2022 Qatar World Cup and you get an extra point for each goal scorer you can name and we will play the count down. Any Wales player featured in that game? England or Wales? England or Wales? And your time starts now.

Wayne Hennessy, Gareth Bale, Aaron Ramsey, Harry Kane, the goalkeeper, the England goalkeeper whose name escapes me, Harry Wilson, Dan James, Ethan Ampidou, Ashley Williams, probably not, Neil Taylor Oh no that was after me. He's not in it anyway, don't worry he's not in it anyway you should have just said Williams Rob. Oh Williams, that's right. Nico Williams, yeah. Okay, we're just gonna top that up. Danny Ward was in goal for Wales.

I don't think either of you named one of the goal scorers. And there were two goal scorers, because Rashford got two and Foden got one. You didn't say Rashford, did you? No. No, no. So no bonus points. My perception there is that Ian will have edged that.

I hope, hopefully more than edged. Well, no. Yeah, but hold on, Rob. You were covering the game, I wasn't. Yeah, but as I always say to people when I go on quizzes, there's a reason why commentators do notes and research Because they can't remember anything Well, the final score is

Rob Phillips 7 Ian Dennis 11 11. Oh, well done. I'm 7. Well done. Can I can I take that to my tally for the league? Let me just check on that with Nathan the answer is no. Oh Can I take that to my tally for the league? Let me just check on that with Nathan. The answer is no. It's an exhibition. It's a friendly and yes. And clearly the Welsh side didn't take it seriously.

No, it's purely an exhibition and the scores remain as they were with Ian at the bottom of the group, me second. No no no no no, we are joint bottom. No, your bottom because I am three from seven, you are three from eight. So on point average, your bottom of the table. And Ali has five from seven and leads the way. Well Rob, at least it wasn't nil nil. No quite. Exactly. But I will take some terrible stick from people who hear that.

Yeah, I've I've been covering Wales for so long, but you get your ears mixed up, don't you, if you've been doing it a long time. You do. And there's a reason why I'm in semi-retirement. Yeah. So there's a little win for England over Wales, Rob? Well nothing new there. I dread Wales play. Wales are going to play England again and everybody gets very excited about it. But honestly, I can do without playing England because it's just a circus whenever England are in town. You're used to it. You're sort of, I won't say part of it, but you know what I mean. We're in the circus at the moment. We're in the middle of the new Thomas Tuchel circus, aren't we? And I'm staring at your big feet.

And I'm staring at your clownish... No, no, let's not get to that. Right, listen, we're not too far away from the end of this week's podcast. We have got the great glossary of football commentary to come, which I know is very, very popular with our listenership. But of course, podcasts, enjoy them while you can on BBC Sounds and make the most of them. But the best thing to listen to, of course, is live sport and live football on the radio, nothing like live radio. And the five live commentaries over the course of the

next few days, if you're listening to this on Friday as discussed, we will both won't be in, be it Wembley for England, Albania tonight, Saturday night on 5 Live you will hear updates on Wales, Kazakhstan in their qualifier, that will be on BBC Sounds of course, on BBC Wales. On Sunday Women's Super League Manchester City face Chelsea at the Etihad for their third match of their quadruple header and we'll have updates on Scotland Greece from 5 p.m. on Sunday BBC Radio Scotland will have the commentary on BBC Sounds. On Monday night we're at Wembley again England against Latvia

that is when Rob Green and Izzy Christensen will be alongside the two of us Ian and we're right on the verge now of finding out what Thomas Tuchel has to offer as the England head coach. Well he's set his stall out, excitement. He's made that abundantly clear hasn't he? He's got to qualify first of all, I mean that should be a given for England with the group But he's been brought in for one job and one job only and that's to win the World Cup Yeah, and Rob for Craig Bellamy and Wales I was in the Albanian press conference last night and there was a great question from one of the Albanians to

Sylvino their coach and he said Sylvino. Are you going to be like Christopher Columbus and conquer America? So could Craig Bellamy be like Christopher Columbus? Well, I don't think he's ever been compared to Christopher Columbus but I probably take that if it means getting to America. No, I'd add to a lot of things but not Christopher. Yeah, I mean it'll be interesting tomorrow because I think if Wales start well then they should win comfortably. But they are without two big players for them, Ethan Ambedou and Harry Wilson. Both have been fantastic in the last year and a half, two years. Ambedou in particular, I mean that's why Ian will know this. A lot of Welsh fans are hoping that Legion likely go up because

Dan James and Ethan Ambedou and Joe Roden probably should be in the Premier League. They've been there before. So now I think Wales will be alright tomorrow and then North Macedonia away on Tuesday, you never can tell, but there's a real confidence in what Craig Bellamy is doing. He's brought a real verve to the way that Wales play. People like Nico Williams, how could I miss him out, have just been sensational at club level, and he's been sensational for his country as well. So everybody's very optimistic.

Yes, and I can tell you, Rob, that you will be kicking yourself about those names all for the rest of the day. I will. And indeed the rest of the coming days. Anyway, right, it is time for the great glossary of football commentary. They have to be terms mostly used in football, we have decided.

So last week ascendancy was denied because it's too commonly used across sports. We removed bragging rights from the glossary for the same reason, that's controversial. But Richard's suggestion, park the bus was accepted as it's not really used in a sporting context outside of football. And thanks also to Michael in Germany, who said Park the Bus in Germany is known as Beton and Ruhn, as in mixed concrete. I've got a good one actually.

He had a great voice as well, did Michael? Did he? Well, had you listened, you'd have heard it. Well, there we are. He had a really, really good voice. So contributions, tcv at bbc.co.uk, also vo voicenots.08000289369. I've got a very good one actually that I got from one of our Albanian colleagues, which I'm not going to mention now because I'll probably use it tonight and then we'll discuss it next week, but it's the Albanian for a certain phrase. So look forward to that tonight.

And contributions as I say, how about this from Chris in Doncaster? During your great Liverpool Newcastle commentary when Dan Burn scored, Stephen Warnock used this phrase. Surely that's unique to football and needs to go into the glossary. I would say absolutely yes. And I was delighted when he used that as well because you don't hear that as often as you used to. It was Roy the Rover stuff and boys own comic stuff that way back used to be used. And for those who don't know,

and I suppose there will be some, Roy of the Rovers was a British comic strip about the life and times of a fictional footballer and later manager amongst other things Yeah, John I gotta tell you this. named Roy Race. Rob Earnshaw scored for Wales on his debut So he was being interviewed by a BBC colleague and he said to Ernie Rob that was Roy the Rover staff and he didn't have a clue

Sorry, don't know what you're talking about. Roy Race, manager of? Melchester Rovers. Yeah and do you remember one time when they brought in a new chairman? Go on. And he came in obviously by helicopter, Jeffrey Boycott. You are right. I mean I used to read all those comics. I used to love, I was a real comic reader. So I'd read, I'd read Roy the Rovers. I'd read the Victor. Do you

remember that? Do you remember the Victor Rob? He said turning away from someone who might be more like, and I also used to read Valiant and there were various and Alf Tupper used to feature in the, in the Victor and Hotshot Hamish. I remember Hotshot Hamish. And some of the characters actually moved between the comics. So without question that will provoke response. Yes. So look forward to that next week. And we've also had a voice note from Billy.

Hello, Billy here from Ballarat in Western Victoria, Australia. I've got an entry for the football glossary which hasn't come up yet. Hello, Billy here from Ballarat in Western Victoria, Australia. I've got an entry for the football glossary which hasn't come up yet. It's pertinent with Newcastle's Carabao Cup win, even though I'm a Luton Town fan. And that's the idea of a football hotbed. It's usually relating to the North East, but commentators will say that Newcastle is such a hotbed or Sunderland is such a hot bed for football and footballers. What is this hot bed? I know when I was a

kid and listening to Radio 2 commentary I'd hear that and think of a massive infrared bed somewhere in the North East of England or in the North West of England and it's always intrigued me and definitely unique to football. So keen on your thoughts whether that should be an entry, I think it should be, but I love the podcast, keep up the great work and chat again soon. Well thank you Billy and funnily enough because we are in a hotel room here. Ian, we are next to a bed but I don't think it's hot. Well Gary has been set on it for a while. But I think that's good. And of course, very often, Rob, a hotbed, a traditional footballing hotbed will also feature a sleeping giant. Yes, quite, quite.

But a hotbed you could have in other sports, couldn't you? You could. If you had an area that had produced and had flourished over a period of time for talent. And I'm trying to think of sort of like you know even if you'd said well before Durham you mentioned Durham before it became a first-class county there'd have been cricketers that would have come from the northeast and you would have said it's a hotbed or it's an untapped hotbed or so could are we are allowing hotbed? Denied.

Denied. Yeah that's the word we've heard from on high we've got a couple of couple more emails in relating to the New Castle final last weekend yeah do Paul Paul Paul said dear the commentators view as an ecstatic and still disbelieving Newcastle United fan who is at Wembley on Sunday I wanted to thank John and Ian for their brilliant soundtrack to our historic day. Also, this is not really one for the great glossary as it clearly has other uses, but I am afraid our next game could be a case of after the Lord Mayor's show. And it's funny Paul, because we're back at Wembley so soon, I've actually already referred to that in a private conversation saying that England Albania

will have a feel of after the Lord Mayor's show being back at Wembley so soon after what was a terrific occasion, wasn't it? It was. And one of my favorites which happens occasionally is that I will be commentating in London on a Saturday when that morning the Lord Mayor's show has been on. And I always like to refer to the football match that I'm covering that

day as a case of after the Lord Mayor's show. We've also got one on the Dan Burn header. This is from Sean in Lincoln who writes, I was wondering if the glossary required a subsection for all the different categories of headers in football and the split second commentary skill required to differentiate them. At what speed does a header become a bullet header and how low does a player's body have to be for it to be a diving header as opposed to a flying header? At what angle does a header become glancing or looping? I'm not expecting firm answers to any of those questions but can you think of any other header adjectives that you favor? PS John asked a question on a

previous episode whether there was any other team in the world in world football with a slash in their name apart from Bodo Glimt my mind immediately went to EB slash stray Muir from the Faroe Islands But I'll be interested to find out if there are any more so thank you very much for that Sean I have to say I didn't I wasn't aware of that team from the Faroe Islands But headers if you imagine a player going up for for a header and I once said He hung in the air as he went for the header. And I had an old editor who said,

you can't hang in the air, you're either going up or you're coming down. However, when you say, are we hung in the air? It does give you the impression that he was in the air for a long time. A hanging header. A hanging header. Rob?

I quite like, and I use it occasionally, the stooping header. A hanging header. Rob? I quite like and I use it occasionally the stooping header rather than the diving header that when when someone bends down to head it in when they really should put it in with their foot but I quite like the stooping header. Is that one to add to the category? Yes it is yeah I would say yeah. Can I just say as well Paul thank you for your your kind words and also that we we did get a lot of nice mentions on social media, so thank you everybody for that. However, if that's the positive, John, you are in the commentators' dock this week. What again?

Again, we've had not one but two emails about something you said in the League Cup final. So Barry says, hate to quibble but John Murray referred to a player in the Cup final on Sunday appearing from nowhere just like Mr. Ben. It was actually the shopkeeper who would appear from nowhere, typically approaching the end of the episode to whisk Mr. Ben back to his shop, not Mr. Ben himself. A small point but valid. And then Jeremy in Hanwell from West London loved the podcast and really enjoyed your coverage of the Carabao Cup until at some point in the closing stages, your commentator

espied Anthony Gordon and commented that he appeared from nowhere like 1980s cartoon character Mr. Ben. Sorry, but anyone raised in the 80s will tell you that it wasn't Mr. Ben who appeared from nowhere, but the shopkeeper. Mm. Do you know, as soon as I said that,

I realized that it was the shopkeeper who appeared as if, as soon as I said that, I realized that it was the shopkeeper who appeared as if by magic, not Mr. Ben. But I felt that in the circumstances, in the hurly burly of that particular league cup final, it probably wasn't something to dwell on. No, but equally, I enjoyed your comment from Mr. Ben and it made me smile. Good, well, if I make you smiley, it's a lovely day. I didn't realize Mr. Ben and it made me smile. Good, well if I make you smiley it's a lovely day.

I didn't realize Mr. Ben has so many followers. Well we're absolutely, we're bringing in the young listeners for this with Royal The Rovers and Mr. Ben, they'll be queuing out the door. It's Royal The Rovers stuff. So let's just sum up again what we have allowed in and what we have not allowed into the Great Glossary this week. So Roy of the Rover Stuff, yes, from Chris in Doncaster. Yes. Hotbed denied from Billy in Australia. And after the Lord Mayor show from Paul, yes.

I would say no. Oh. Because I think, again. It could be anything. It could be anything. Yeah. So there we are. So all contributions on that or anything else relating to the commentators view gratefully received on voice notes to 08000 289 369 or emails to pcv at bbc.co.uk. Rob, it has been a pleasure to have you with us. I've really enjoyed that and I'm really pleased you were able to come on. Yep, thank you Rob.

I've had a great time, thank you. And on the next episode of the Football Daily, Mark Chapman will have reaction to England's first World Cup qualifier against Albania from Wembley Stadium. And if you've missed any episodes of the commentators view you can find every single one of them on the Football Daily Feed. Can I just say as well that my victory over Rob and I'm not trying to rub it in Rob but that day I was covering Ecuador Senegal can you name any players that played for those two?

Can you name any players that played for those two? Probably I could yeah, if 30 seconds is gone I'm staying out of that one This is the football story of the century it's pandemonium it's ecstasy It's an authoritarian regime for the past 15 years English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six league cups, three FA cups, one Champions League and more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City Charges.

They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC Sounds.