Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Salah signs up & John with sirens

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Conor McNamara joins John Murray & Ian Dennis to talk commentary life as Mo Salah signs Liverpool deal. John reveals how he ended up in a French ambulance in midweek. Conor reflects on nearly getting stuck on his way to replace John in Paris. And Ian talks through his memorable line, ‘Rice Rice baby’. All that plus a tasty Clash of the Commentators and more additions to the Great Glossary of Football Commentary.E-mail: [e-mail] Voicenotes on WhatsApp to: 08000 289 36901:45 Mo Salah signs new Liverpool deal 04:45 John talks about ending up in a French ambulance 11:30 Conor nearly gets stuck en route to PSG 14:40 Ian’s ‘Rice Rice baby’ 21:25 What goal celebrations would the guys perform? 24:40 Ian speaks out about the Crystal Palace restricted view 27:50 Ian tests Pat Nevin’s patience with ‘transition’ 31:15 Clash of the Commentators gets tasty 41:40 What will be added to the Great Glossary?BBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries this weekend: Sat 1500 Nottingham Forest v Everton, Sat 1730 Arsenal v Brentford, Sun 1400 Liverpool v West Ham, Sun 1400 Chelsea v Ipswich on Radio 5 Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Wolves v Tottenham on BBC Sport website, Sun 1630 Newcastle v Man Utd.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. The commentators view with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the football daily. Hello, this is the commentators view where we take you on our journey as five live commentators and on this latest episode, episode 20, we have our correspondent John Murray and in from the cold Connor McNamara are you still in Leon? Easy for you to say I am I'm still in Leon it's a beautiful morning here

blue skies sunshine not flying home till later today so go to enjoy the the sights and the sounds of the city and it's a great place I love Leon where Manchester United had a tough night last night because it looked in the 88th minute as they got that Xerxi goal to go 2-1 in front and it looked like they're going to bring a lead back to the to Old Trafford for the second leg but unfortunately I don't think Andre Onana will be feeling quite as bright and sprightly as I do this morning because he had a tough night and he is in the line of fire right now. Well there's no alley this week as he is sunning it in Augusta at a time of recording.

It is 3.30 in the morning so he's probably fast asleep or maybe squeezing in a secret round on the golf course. He wouldn't be involved this week anyway because he'd be serving a one-match suspension for his mishandling of Clash of the Commentators last week. So he wouldn't be involved this week anyway. Well we'll get to that. I'm glad to see that it's not niggling you at all. We'll get to that and we're also going to get to the fact that we've got John and Connor on because this week has been pretty hectic for a number of reasons.

We've had some week, haven't we? The three of us. As I say, we're going to get to that in due course. But firstly, John, as correspondent, we've got the news that Mo Salah has signed a new two-year deal with Liverpool. There's been a lot of speculation around his future. Of course, he's out of contract this summer as well. So what is your reaction as the BBC's football correspondent to that news? Yes, as we are recording this, this has just been announced by Liverpool. I think, you know, it had leaked out, hadn't it, this week. There had been reports that this was about to happen. But we didn't know that it was going to be a two-year deal, although again, I think the expectation

was it wouldn't be a one-year deal, it wouldn't be a three-year deal, so most likely to be a two-year deal. And I think probably big relief for Liverpool fans, Liverpool football club itself, and from a position where, as everyone who knows anything about Liverpool will be aware, this is dragged on all season with three of their biggest stars, Salah, Van Dijk, and Trent Alexander-Arnold out of contract at the end of the season.

I think we've known, haven't we? I remember talking about it at the turn of the year, that Real Madrid were super confident that they were going to be able to get Trent Alexander-Arnold to move to the Bernabeu. So I think from that point on, the question was, would Liverpool lose one, two, or all of them? I think unlikely all of them, probably just one of them. And it looks as though Van Dijk is, is likely to stay as well. So it looks as though they will lose Trent Alexander-Harnold, but keep Salah and Van Dijk,

and it's going to be clearly one of the conversation pieces of the day, isn't it? To what level is that good for Liverpool? I'm an incredible connoisseur to think that they allowed three players of such quality to enter the last year of their contracts and leave the club from a financial point of view so vulnerable really that three players were able to be in a position to run down their contracts.

Yeah, do you know what though, I think it's worked out okay for them. They've had three really hungry players all season with a point to prove, with energy, with, you know, Salah's had the season of his life really and, you know, you add together the goals and the assists, the presence that he's been and I know he's had good seasons before but he's just been head and shoulders above everyone else this season. And I think, you know, in football how many times do we see a player get a contract and then it's a little bit, you're waking up in the silk sheets every morning and you're getting out of bed but you know your future is secure, you know, your players looking to impress and I do think that has been some small factor in Liverpool's running away with the league this season.

So, so, you know, from that point of view, I think the Liverpool hierarchy have managed this quite well. I think maybe they knew early doors, they were never going to keep all of them. So it was about sort of seeing exactly where the dust settles, depending on how much they could afford to pay, given that instead of paying out three contracts, they're maybe only paying two stuff like that. But I think they'll be satisfied, they'll be happy and look, Salah has shown that he's got plenty of energy in the legs, I don't

expect there to be a drop off next season. There are also reports that Van Dijk has reached an agreement and will also sign up for another two years. Now we will get to clash the commentators and the controversy from last week, but first of all let's talk about the hectic week that the two of you have had John do you want to go on from here and take the story on well I remember on Wednesday morning I was texting you about you know what a night that you'd had at the Emirates the night before I mean that you know I must be right up there in terms of the matches that you've covered over the years, one of the great nights.

So anyway, I messaged you, we were in contact. I went down to breakfast, sitting around with, uh, with our colleagues, with Rob Northman, who is the producer in Paris with Rob Dyball, our engineer and Phil McNulty, the BBC's chief football writer who was on the, on the podcast last week and, um, you know, to put it in simple terms, I took a funny turn. And really within probably, I don't know, 20 minutes of that, I was in in the back of a French ambulance with the sirens going weaving through the streets of Paris to l'Hôpital Ambroise Paris, where they looked after me brilliantly.

They were absolutely charming in there, the staff at that hospital. Honestly, I can't speak highly enough of them. Went and had a series of tests. I was in hospital for half the day. And as a result of that, I was not at the park, the prance on Wednesday night. I sat it out and Conor, in the meantime, you had been scrambled since you were heading to France. Fortunately, you were heading to France anyway that morning.

Yes, I was on the way to Lyon. So I was traveling on Wednesday for the game on Thursday. And I was literally on the bus on the way to the airport when I got a call from Ross the boss to say that, yes, the chief had taken a turn and knowing you as long as I do John, I've never seen you as much as wobble let alone have a turn. So that was, and we're kind of all laughing and joking about it now.

At the time there was great concern for the national treasure that is John Murray, that he was going to be okay. But yeah, it worked out quite well. So instead of flying to Lyon, there was a flight I could get to Paris at the same time. And initially it was just to be on standby, just in case you weren't able to do the game. Which always puts you in the conundrum as a commentator, you think, okay, there's a chance I might have to commentate on this game tonight. I better do some prep.

And then all the while doing it, you're just thinking, this is a waste of time. I'm never going to get to use this prep. I mean, I've done all these stats on Paris Saint-Germain and how many goals they've scored this season, and I'm not going to get to use any of it. You know, you sort of, and then suddenly when it was confirmed that I am doing the game, it was like, well, thank God I've done that, done that bit of work. Meanwhile, while you were doing that, I was sitting in the hospital because I hadn't finished my preparation either.

Then I actually had taken my bag with me to breakfast. So I actually had my bag with me that I was able to take to the hospital. Ever the pro. Anyway, that was a fortunate Something to do while I was in hospital waiting for these results So I was sitting in the hospital with my notes on my knee doing my notes on the match Thinking I'm not sure I'm gonna be doing this match tonight, but I better do this anyway, just did Did the French doctors use that as a cognitive test that clearly this guy is

compas mentis that he's he's currently adding up how many goals Desiree Douais has scored this season. And did the doctors rule out Parisian pastries and any sort of like ill effects from Clash of the Commentators last week? It was a good deal more more scientific than Ian, I can tell you. But in all seriousness you've been given the all okay? Yeah, no, everything was found to be normal. Well, you know, I wouldn't go that far. He sent me on my way and Rob Northman, who I must thank as well,

he was in the back of the ambulance with me Rob and stayed at the hospital with me We walked back because they the the hospital isn't far away from where we were staying near the Parc de France So we walked back and had a bite to eat on the way back But I have to say as I was walking back I was thinking I'm not sure you know after going through all of that, which, you know, was quite a, I mean, it was, it was quite a traumatic experience. I think it would be for anyone who's not experienced it. I was thinking, is this right for me to, you know, am I in the right shape to actually

go and cover this match tonight? And I didn't know at that stage where Connor was and how, you know, what time you were going to get there. So I thought it best probably to keep the options open until I knew that you were going to be there in decent time, which you were obviously. So, and it was quite an easy decision at the end of that because it was such a big game Connor.

You know, I knew I had a strong feeling having been there for the Manchester city and Liverpool matches and seeing them play know what they're like on home turf,, well anywhere, but certainly on home turf that it might well have been the match that it was and whether after the day I'd had, you know, it would be the best course of action to cover that. But anyway, you got there in time and I was able to sit it out and it was quite an easy decision to make. And it wasn't just Connor and myself and Gary and Rob Noe and Rob Dybul the engineer and Paul Robinson and everybody else, all your colleagues who were showing

concern because as Connor says you are a national treasure and Paul has sent in some correspondence to tcv at bbc.co.uk. I hope all is okay with Big John. I assume it was a pretty late call for Connor and if it's appropriate to discuss I'm wondering how challenging it is to cover a game at the last minute that you may have not been able to prepare for Yeah, thanks for the question Paul, you know, it's an unusual circumstance None of us would have planned it this way but this you know It was actually a good example of conditions that that made it not too difficult because I had commentated on Aston Villa the previous weekend. I did their game against Nádega Forest for five lives.

So what that means that all my notes are up to date and I've seen their most recent game. So I'm kind of that side of it is OK. And then this would have been much more difficult had Villa been playing against some Romanian team that I don't know very well or a team that doesn't have famous players. But whereas, you know, it's Paris Saint-Germain, so it's household name. So we know them all. So that made it a lot easier.

Just the fact it's a really big game. We tend to, while we always do lots of prep for games for really, really, really big matches, you tend to need that prep less because it's more what is happening on the pitch at that time. Describing that painting, that picture is the priority rather than any background information and historical context. So that tends not to be as important once the game kicks off for a really big game like a knockout match in the Champions League. So from that point of view, it wasn't too difficult.

The funny thing in my head, I was thinking I'm flying to Lyon, so I'm going to do all my prep for Lyon Manchester United on Thursday, which obviously I'd started, but I was going to finish it off. But then suddenly I found myself doing all the Villa PSG prep. So then I'm thinking, oh dear, now tomorrow I'm'm gonna have to catch up on the the Lyon game. So it's just gonna, you know, there's gonna be a backlog coming here at some stage. But a story that I haven't told Dards Review yet is when I arrived at Charles de Gaulle and I had to get to the stadium, I was thinking, well what's the best way to do it? And obviously you could get a taxi and I've

had bad experiences in Paris. You hit that periphery road and you could get stuck in really bad traffic. And I thought I thought you know taking the the metro or public transport might actually get me there a lot quicker. So I tend to do that but I came into a different terminal that I don't normally go into in in Paris and I looked at my phone, the kind of the Maps app and I started how do I get there and they said actually there's a bus that's going right from right beside where you are and it's going in four minutes and I said oh hang on that could be good and it'll be bus lanes and you know so I'll do that. So I bought my ticket, got on the bus.

And there was three people on the bus. This is a VIP bus, excellent. And I got my laptop out. I'm doing my prep. And I'm looking at the traffic map. And it does show around Stade de France, there's a bit of red lines there, a bit of traffic. And the bus driver actually got off the motorway.

And I think, oh, he knows some kind of back route or some such. But suddenly, another bus had broken down in the bus lane in front of him on this backwards route. And we were stuck. And we're not moving. And I'm thinking, I'll be fine. It's sorted out.

And he's out. And he's talking in French to the other bus driver. And it's one of these double buses, bendy buses, so difficult to maneuver to get around. So I'm sitting there, 10, 15 minutes go by. And I'm thinking, OK, we don't really have this wriggle room today. Can we just get moving, please? And I'm looking up, 10, 15 minutes go by, and I'm thinking, okay, we don't really have this wriggle room today, can we just get moving, please? And I'm looking up, is there any other alternative

way I can get there for now? But thankfully, the driver got the bus moving, and we're raised into Paris, and I got there in time. But that was another little bit of drama, just to keep the heart rate pumping ahead of kickoff. Meanwhile, John had just ordered room service, and was sat there throwing grapes in his mouth as he convalesced.

So how are you feeling now, Conor? Because I mean, you have probably more of a hectic schedule than the rest of us, and it's been even more hectic for you this week. It's been a busy week, but I always say on these trips, doing things like this podcast, or when we do the football daily, or we do bits for Radio 4 or Five Life Breakfast,

I always feel on these trips, you're here you might as well justify being here and do as much as you can. So in terms of, it wasn't like I had sort of a social day that I had to cancel or family time or whatever. I was going to be away from work anyway so you might as well fill your boots and as you guys both know for these games, Knockout Games European competition, it's great fun to do. Like this isn't working down the coal mine. So yeah, I won't lie to you, I'm tired and I'll sleep very well tonight. I'm going to London tonight to do Arsenal tomorrow and I need to get up on that prep now.

But no, it's been great. There was a buzz, the two games. I really enjoyed being with Paul Robinson in Paris. That was some game. I know it was a tough night for Phil in the end, but it was a really high quality game to watch. And then last night with Manchester United, the two late goals. So all that drama, that gives you a natural buzz. I think ultimately when you do then fall asleep you kind of crash out but at the time you don't feel the fatigue, you just get through it. So it's been great fun. I just heard that siren in the background. I know, I was just checking. It's not for you, is it?

That sent a shiver down my spine. They've heard there's a five-line commentator here, they put one outside just in case. But listen, what happened to me this week, just to give you a little reminder of how fragile things can be, you know, so one does have to be careful. Anyway, that was our experience, Conor, whereas as we've already touched on, Ian commentated on that Arsenal-Rail Madrid match. So let's have a little reminder of that. Rice, rice, baby! Oh, my word! Two absolute belters! Very good. I see, because we were working in France the night before,

previewing the Villa match. I actually didn't hear the commentary, but I did hear the clips the next morning as I texted you. But Joseph has emailed in and says, Ian, I was lucky enough to be at the Emirates on Tuesday night and find it almost impossible to describe the emotions and scenes during those goals. However, I listened to your commentary after and it almost brought me to tears, says Joseph.

You've done that to me a few times over the years. Joseph continues, it felt as raw as seeing those goals firsthand. What you bring to listeners is incredible. And for those who cannot see rest assured the commentary is just as good. Rice rice baby, he says with four applauding emojis. Then, as we often say, uh, Ian during commentary, if people have been to matches and want to listen back, they can do that now, if you have the BBC

sounds app, go to the stations and. If you have the BBC Sounds app, go to the stations and schedules box, find the day, the time of the match on Five Live, you can listen back to the commentary. And I would imagine if you're an Arsenal supporter, that's one that you'd love to listen back to. But there's another one, Conor, as well in the re-mail. Yeah, yeah, Gilliam Fan John says,

"'Gents, rice, rice, baby. "'It was pure radio magic and had to be spontaneous. "'How could you have planned a nugget of that quality? Radio brilliancy is it. And that's why, without even asking Denny, I know that wasn't a pre-prepared line because how would you know, Denny, that Rice was gonna score twice

to get the rice rice baby thing in there? So, lovely spontaneous moment and thanks John for getting in touch. And there's another one, Ian. Phil from Shoreham by Sea in West Sussex. He says, I'll come straight to the point. If Denno spontaneously used Rice Rice Baby when Declan scored his second wonder goal on Tuesday evening, then Mr Ian Dennis has now secured the rightful

position of greatest sports broadcasting moment ever. Outdoing, they think it's all over, where are the Germans, leg over, etc full stop amen the end he says in capital letters however if denno it amuses me that the listeners call you that admits this was researched and held in his repertoire for any appropriate moment that i think he should be forced to name all vanillailla Ice's singles and while on the subject of deno he fortuitously saw Deacon Blue in London the night before a broadcast from South London either a stroke of fortune some ingenious planning or bribery to the five live sports producers

perhaps Ian would like to enlighten us obviously we'll be checking Deacon Blue tour dates to match any deno commentaries uh and he says he describes you as the goat, Ian. Well, thank you, Phil. That's 10 pounds I'll have to put in the post here, put the check in the post. Like you say, the two incredible goals, and the second one was actually better than the first. And when I said Rice Rice Baby,

I'm not too sure where it actually came from. And then I thought, oh, and then as I was sat in the press room afterwards I noticed that they put on the TV They put the the paper headlines and one of the headlines of the the tabloids was rice rice, baby I mean I can't wait to speak to Declan about it because the second one was just Incredible right in that top right hand corner and as for Deacon blue

I think the bribery might have gone to Ricky Ross the lead singer actually because I'd seen them a few days earlier and I hadn't realized that they were in London at the same time I was in London and then I thought oh I just wonder if I might be able to and obviously I was but you're right I do actually check to see where they are playing in relation to my own schedule. Just to clarify for Phil, the tail doesn't wag the dog. It's the right way around.

It is the right way around, yes. I mean, I'll be honest with you, I'm already seeing them twice in the autumn. Twice, twice, baby. That's the second funny turn you've had this week. Two more than usual. So, yeah, but I will look to try and squeeze in one, if not an additional two, just because I think that they are the greatest band that's ever been produced.

And, you know, but also as well well that Ricky and the band members they they do love listening to Five Live so they are they are avid listeners of Five Live so they are aware aware of what we do I'm not too sure whether their love for Five Live has stretched to the commentators view podcast but nevertheless they do listen to our commentaries just like hair Chapman hope he's listening in Augusta as well. Talking of that goal by the way, Paul on the email, given the recent free-kick exploits of Rhys James and Declan Rice, I'm wondering if the England squad are also avid listeners

of TCV and are taking it upon themselves to try and stick the ball up where the owl sleeps or in the free market. I mentioned the Danish free market in commentary when Matt Uppsson said it was postage stamp. This is a cleanly hit free kick that is just about six inches below the crossbar next to the post in the postage stamp of the top corner of the net. The Emirates stadium cannot believe the supporters around us, then over just off their seats running around the aisles. What a brilliant double free kick special from Declan Rice. Well, you say the postage stamp in Denmark, they would say that is the Freemarket right in the corner. And there's a gentleman, he's still getting his breath back now. I'm actually a little bit concerned for him. But I watched his mouth. Unbelievable.

As our colleague Phil Wye texted this week, he said, well, the owl was very disturbed there by Declan Rice, wasn't it? Yeah, there'll be no sleeping in that corner when the ball goes. I mean, it was a perfect free kick, wasn't it? Well, Rice, for the first goal, did the old Thierry Henry knee slide, and for the second one, he jumped onto the advertising hoardings with his arms aloft but Mark has sent us a whatsapp and don't forget the whatsapp thing is 08000 289 369 and he's actually sent this from his narrowboat in in Rufford in in West Lanks. TCV is unmissable but the thing I'd like to know if you were Premier League managers what goal celebration style do you think you would

adopt? Who wants to go first? I would like to think I could be one of those cool managers who at the really super exciting moment when this bedlam the stadium's rocking the TV camera shaking as it tries to zoom in a close-up and I just sit there motionless you know just yeah this is the way it should be. That's what I'd like to feel. I mean, obviously I'd be doing the running down to the corner flag and Alan Pardue missing high five slaps and all that. But in reality, I'd love to think I'd be one of those, yeah, just staring straight ahead, being cool as ice. I think I'd like to think that as well. I'd like to take the Carlo Ancelotti approach. That's what would, that would, what would shoot me. But do you remember when one of the, one of the most surprising

examples of this was when Trevor brooking suddenly stepped in to be the West Ham manager and you know, we all know Trevor very well, you know, we worked with him lots and lots, didn't he? And the time that he was summarizing for us on, uh, on five live, you know, and he was always the most calm, serene man who would never be ruffled by anything. And when he stepped into that position as the West Ham manager, he was like, I think, where's this come from? So going about still waters run deep.

Suddenly he trevors emotion on the touchline as the manager. So you probably don't know how it's going to affect you until you're actually in that position I guess. I wouldn't necessarily go down the sort of like the thought of a Premier League manager but remember that goal that Johnny Metcogne scored years ago for Forrest in the mid 80s against West Ham and he went as he ran away he hit about a 30-yard pile driver and he went away with a wag of the finger I would do that I was once involved in a an indoor cricket league in Leeds and where the umpire actually sat suspended over the

batsman anyway I went in for an LBW appeal he didn't he didn't give it to me and then the next ball came steaming in scattered his wickets everywhere and I ran up to him with a wag of the finger saying, I think you'll find that one's out. Chippy. Chippy. Yeah, can't beat a good chippy in West Yorkshire, I can tell you that for a fact.

Right, Five Life Premier League Commentaries this weekend. Three o'clock usual goal service. I'll be alongside Leon Alstom, Nottingham Forest against Everton. Well I hope that's busy. Leon gets more entertainment than he did with me when we were sitting at the Manchester Derby last Sunday afternoon. Yes, yeah, best to skirt over that one, that was rather drab wasn't it? Terrible, I was at that game, very, very, very hard watch. Which then sparked a big discussion didn't it, which I think came from Gary Neville didn't it, about you know, the whole thing's gone to the dogs, which I thought was a bit of an overreaction. I think I read a lot of articles on Monday where that seemed to

be the perceived narrative. A lot of, you know, and very respectable writers were writing about it, sort of, oh, the quality has gone off. And then I thought that really wasn't emphasised by some of the games I was at because, you know, I was at that Astor Villa Forest game which was really entertaining. I'd listened to Ian earlier in the afternoon. What was a real thriller? Yeah, I think given any weekend in the Premier League there are 10 games, sure there can be two of them that won't be great but there's nearly always two that are very, very good, minimum. Yes, I'd been at Selhurst Park and I've died away.

Was that your first visit there this season? I hope it's my last. Oh, nice. Nice. No offense. No, no, no, listen. You know, for a football glossary, Ian Dennis has come out there to just have another dig

at Crystal Palace. You know, this is becoming a theme on the podcast where he is like Nemanja Matic on Andrea O'Nalla. He's not just making the point, he is reiterating the point of his dissatisfaction with the location. How dare they put their football stadium there? It's going to be no chocolate and a clout for you next time you go there. Crystal Palace fans will know that I love the atmosphere.

It is the most or one of the most atmospheric stadiums in the Premier League. Is that the ambulance reversing? But as you know, the position and the view from the press box has to be the worst in the Premier League. Oh yes, you were going to mention this. And before that it was the worst. And now they've decided to put five giant, and I mean giant speakers attached just underneath the roof. So therefore not only do you have to deal with the worst view and the stanchions, but now you have to deal with these huge speakers obscuring the view, particularly to the left of the premium, in the penalty area to the

left. It's only a temporary measure, I'm told. If this was a Deacon Blue concert and they put up extra speakers, there'd be no complaints then. Well, that is true. But if equally, if they were selling tickets, they would put obscured view or restricted view or no view at all. Yeah. But by the way, and this is slightly off topic, but it's just it's just popped into my head. So it's at the game in Lyon last night, just when you're

said with things obscuring views and barriers and stuff. When Bruno Fernandes was taking corners at the end of the pitch where the Lyon ultras were, behind the goal there was a huge netting and it obviously was a very see-through net that didn't obscure the fans watching the game but it was to stop people throwing stuff on the pitch. But the net didn't cover the corner flags and I've never seen this and I'm interested if either of you have ever seen this, that every time there was a corner two guys came out with these massive, if you can imagine, you know riot police those sort of shields that they hold but much bigger and completely clear see-through

like holding a huge pane of glass and they both stood to protect Bruno Fernandes as he was taking the corner people were throwing plastic glasses but these were being sheathed. I'd never seen that before. No, but do you remember when Leeds United played Galatasaray in the Ali Sami'en Stadium and as they came out of the tunnel, Harry Kuehl, there was police officers that day with shields protecting the Leeds players as they came up onto the playing surface. Yeah, I remember that. Anyway, before we went off topic, where was it? Yeah, Saturday 5.30, Arsenal Brentford, that's Connor with Andy Reid. Health permissing, John will be at Anfield for 2 o'clock on Sunday, Liverpool West Ham.

Chelsea, Ipswich is on SportsXtra, Wolves Tottenham on the sport website. And Newcastle Manchester United is our offering on Five Live and the BBC sounds app, Mike Miney and Pat Nevin. Pat Nevin who I tested out last Saturday in the Crystal Palace Brighton match on Five Live because Pat had warned us that he was operating a three strikes and you're out policy for commentators using his least favourite word, transition, and if you were listening to last week I did say that I would I would test him out. My first opportunity to do so came in the first half. Matoma now picks it up and the counter-attack is on here but they were

unable to take advantage of that transition, Pat. Well I'm slightly surprised that Matoma didn't find him there. He was second favourite to actually win the ball. So no bite on the first transition but I had another go just after half time and straight away Matoma picks the ball up and then looks for the ball inside towards Gomez but they were unable to take advantage of that little transition in play. where they were unable to take advantage of that little transition in play. Yeah, and I can see where you're going with that. I read a piece on the website the other day about modern parlance and jargon in football. And I've said, actually, if you use it three times during a commentary, you should get sent off the commentary.

Well, I dropped the first one in after 36 minutes and then the next one then. I've given you one, mate. I'm only giving you one. I won't do it again because I, like you, would prefer the good old counter-attack. Very good. You got the desired response. Yes, yes. You poked the bear sufficiently to get the reaction. But do you know what? I think, and of course counter-attack is something we all know,

I like coming up with different ways of saying, you know, you can't say counterattack for every counterattack. And I don't have a problem saying, oh, that's not a football term or this is a modern jargon. Good. You know, at some point, counterattacking was a modern jargon. At some point, everything gets used for the first time. So personally, I like, you know, listening to commentaries where they use a phrase which I understand what they're saying but that I'm not bored of already hearing. We actually had some correspondence from the Everton fan David who said, love the podcast.

On last week's episode, you discussed transfers being unveiled and your guest Phil McNulty wanted to see it actually happen. It might not be a literal unveiling, but when Santi Cazola returned to Villarreal after leaving Arsenal His transfer had a unique reveal where he appeared in a glass tube after some smoke had disappeared Is that how you're gonna appear in Anfield John? I do remember I do remember saying that it was remarkable Wasn't it? Have you seen it? You must have seen it. Have you not? It is absolutely remarkable It was like a magician's trick. It was, yeah, it was like David Copperfield. Yeah, but that piece from Phil McNulty is still available on the BBC Sport website if you've missed it and should you

go back to want to read it. In focus on the Football Daily every Saturday, catch the biggest names from the Premier League and beyond as they share all with nothing off-limits We are here to speak to awesome Ricardo Calafiore Ruben Amorim welcome to the football daily when I had this invitation I felt that I had to do this Rodri. That was incredible. Thank you for having me here in focus Only on the football daily listen on BBC sounds Focus only on the football daily listen on BBC sounds The commentators view on the football daily podcast BBC radio 5 live

Right plus the commentators which was very very controversial in last week's episode was it not it was and I've actually had had various friends of mine texting me this week just with the words not Cantona actually because Ian said not Cantona as one of his answers but was still awarded the point with Eric Cantona being the correct answer for the category of Manchester United players to have won the number nine at some point. I mean you'd have thought the semi automatic VR would have spotted that. That should have been an automatic you know. Well I would have thought that the host would have spotted that Mr. Alistair Bruce Ball but he's not here to defend himself. Always be here to defend yourself that's the one lesson in life. If you're not here you'll be defenseless. He will listen though John don't worry. I would imagine he will. So Eric Hansen did actually wear the number nine in the Champions League in four

fixtures home and away against Honved and Galatasaray for Manchester United. You were asking last week about Dion Dublin wore number nine for Cambridge Coventry Aston Villa Leicester Celtic Norwich in England but not Manchester United he wore 12 14 15 and 20 although the producer of this podcast Nathan immediately after last week's program changed the picture on the on our whatsapp group to a picture of Dion Dublin wearing a Manchester United number nine shirt. That is Housery of the highest order. That is clearly a testimonial game because it actually doesn't say Dublin on the back it says Manchester on the back yeah it's but it's got a number nine which is the point that's the point was the parameter

of the question the question was who's that could just be a friend for Manchester that did but the question was it didn't say in competitive games have you ever seen the film Frozen, John? Errr... I don't think I have actually. I'm aware of the musical. You've got to let it go. I'm not letting it go. I will not let it lie.

Well, I'll tell you what, there's good news this week. You are the Quizmaster. Yes, which is, I have to say something of relief after recent events. I'm not happy about this, you'll be aware that the last time I was on we had the first ever nil-nil draw. It has been mentioned a few times. Neither of us could get a single correct answer. So yes, with Ali being away and Connor stepping in, it is exhibition time again and I think Connor it's an interesting one this you talk about the nil-nil last time this is an interesting

one yeah yeah this is you're gonna and I know you've you've had a very hard week I've had a week my brain is done I'm gonna walk I'm gonna warn you both at the same time that you will need your thinking caps on for this one. And you, and it's one where you will need to think a little laterally. So, and I know that doesn't play for you, Connor. Even the best of my times, I can't think laterally. This is not too right. So what happens for those who've not listened to the podcast before, as I reveal a category, Connor and Ian will have 30 seconds to give as many suitable answers as you can. So we have to decide who's going to go first.

I was thinking Conor to go first because it might be easier for me to disconnect. Does that make sense? Whatever, I don't mind. Whatever works for you guys. Okay, yeah. Okay. Alright. So Ian is disconnecting now. He's gone. Okay, Conor Connor brace yourself as discussed Declan Rice became the first player to score two direct free kick goals in a knockout stage match in the Champions League. I want you to name as many players as you can that feature an item of food literally or loosely in their name. You must include their full name you can't just reel off different foods and we are providing a clue here

you know if you want you can think fast food, types of pasta, meat, whatever, food stuffs. So if you're ready your time starts now I'm not right. I'm not ready at Declan rice Frank LeBouf Food fruits oranges strawberries very very Oh My brain isn't awake for this all this morning cereal food meat pork ham

This is hard Sal, there's got to be someone's salmon. No, I'm struggling, brain is not awake for this, sorry. Do you know, I knew that was going to be really tough for you. And you did have a couple in there as well, but we did say that you need to say the full name, not just the food item so I'm afraid I'm afraid this is not looking good for you come on it won't be nil-nil though because you did get Declan right right let's surely you're gonna give me Frank LeBouffe oh sorry and Frank LeBouffe

yeah Frank LeBouffe as well yeah yeah no right let's get Ian back in. I'll beckon him back. And here he is. Right. You've got a tough test here. You are going to have to be on your metal here, Ian. It is one of his specialist subjects, though. It is. Is it Deacon Blue? It's one of your specialist subjects of the week. So if you're ready, here we go. As we've discussed, Declan Rice became

the first player to score two direct free kick goals in a knockout stage match in the UEFA Champions League this week. I want you, Ian, to name as many players as you can with an item of food, literally or loosely in their name. And you must include their full name. You can't just name the food food yep and so what we're thinking of is think for example if you want fast food types of pasta meat whatever your time starts now okay well patrick burger uh Alan McDonald Oh Fish! The Charlton Defender, Fish! Oh, well, well, well, that was hard.

Well, I did tell you, I gave you a fair warning there that you're going to have to think laterally. Far too early in the morning for this kind of a quiz. I'm pleased I wasn't doing that because that was not easy easy and there's going to be controversy here but I'm gonna step in unlike Alistair Bruce Ball last week even though Nathan is telling me the producer is telling me that McDonald Alan McDonald should be accepted and even though that was a very clever answer hold on you not accepting that hold on not accepting it You said fast food restaurants. No, fast food I said. Fast food, not fast food restaurants.

Are you sure this is not from last week? You've still got your beanie bonnet. If we wanted to do the game that involved the name of corporate titles, that also are footballers' names, then Alan MacDonald would have been acceptable. It's not a food, it's the name of the company. So therefore, unfortunately Ian, you also missed Declan Rice himself who was named by Connor as well as Frank LeBoeuf. So a narrow 2-1 win for Connor against Ian.

Oh, you see... The editor's decision is final. What? I got two. No, you didn't. I got Fish and Burger. No, you had to say the full name. And I made that very clear. But I said Mark Fish.

No, you didn't. You said you can't just say salmon. You said Fish, the Bolton player, fish. You didn't say Mark Fish. You weren't listening because I actually said Charlton. Charlton. I'll tell you what. Did not say Mark.

Well, Connor said salmon. Connor salmon. No, Connor said salmon. He didn't say Connor salmon. I didn't say Connor salmon. And Berry, he said, but not George Berry. So therefore, that was not allowed. It was very clear in the question that you have to name the full name of the player

You know me and you could fall out, you know, well I'm afraid But you know, it's it's as I discovered myself last week, you know, it's not always fair This I know this kind of thing you just have to suck it up This is where Nathan now needs to show his authority well I'm doing what he's trying to pressure the officials here look at this is at the end of the day bring the game into disrepute you're only the quiz master you are you are not the arbiter well somebody's got to call

it and last week it wasn't good enough well so somebody had to take this by the scruff of the neck and I've decided to do that. This is the fallout of not Cantona last week. It is. It is the letter of the law and you may not like the offside law but it's the law and the referee is going to implement it. For every action there is a reaction. Out of interest do you have any other possible answers? Just do just a curiosity I thought of another one Paulo one chop. That's a good one. That's a good one. That is a good one Massimo macaroni For middle spread mark mark fish was actually on the list. I should think he was I quite enjoyed natural as well Connor salmon was on the list Connor Connor salmon was on the list

It's funny that I didn't think of the name Connor, you know what I mean? Like of all the possibilities. David Peach, when you were going through the fruits, I thought you were gonna maybe get David Peach who scored in the League Cup final. Pat Rice, another Rice, could have had another Rice. Barry Venison.

Yes. Mark Bunn. Tony Curry. Yes. Were just some of them. I missed out Erling Harland last week as well. I need to pay attention to the question because I could have got Declan Rice. That was a schoolboy error. It was a schoolboy error but there we are.

It's time for our great glossary of football commentary. This is our collection of football commentary terms that we're building with help from you the listener. Firstly Christian wants to bring to the table something Conor McNamara said area all night. Tackling boots, snatch and grab instead of smash and grab. Are you suggesting that I'm beginning sentences that I don't know how I'm going to finish them? Do you know what, and this is really interesting, do you know what genuinely came in my head is I'm

about to say the smash and grab and it came ahead, this is early in the game, this is still in the first half and I'm pretty sure this has been discussed on the, you know, at what point in the game can you say it's a smash and grab? And in my head I'm thinking it's too early for a smash and grab. And I'm trying to think what's an ever so slightly different way of saying that. And this is why listening to these podcasts are not healthy for commentary, because it makes you think about what you're saying too much and you overthink it.

Tackling Boots, I had no idea where that came from. I mean, I hope it paints the picture where people can get what I'm trying to say in two words rather than me having to waste eight words when they're bearing down in the penalty area. But of course, when you write it out, it makes no sense. And this maybe takes us back to the Declan Rice goals because we've got a voice note from Dan who is holidaying in church Streatham. How nice. My proposed entry into the football commentators' glossary is when a shot is struck with venom.

I think it applies to a shot that you can imagine doing real damage to anyone that gets in its way, and that implies some degree of viciousness in it, like the striker of the ball has released some pent-up frustration or past grievance into it. Hence the image of a snake striking its prey, or perhaps a comparable image would be of Ian and his halftime pie as in And he's eaten that pie with real venom. I believe this is unique to football but defer to your expert opinion

Well, thank you very much Dan and and thanks also for letting me know that you were holidaying in Church Streatham Which I don't think I've been to have you been to Church Streatham either of you two. No, no But we very much enjoy Receiving your voice notes on 08000 289 369 and of course emails EMTCV at BBC co.co UK. We do try to get through as many as we can Yeah struck with venom. Is that football specific? Is it commonly used enough to make the glossary? I think it's commonly used enough to make the glossary?

I think it's commonly used enough. I hear it a lot, you know, he struck that with a venom, venomous strike, you do hear that. You do. I mean, you could imagine a batsman with a cover drive though saying, oh, that was a venomous strike, couldn't you? Yeah, but I'm kind of thinking, could I hear Steve Buntz saying that, you know, Tyson Fury hit a venomous strike with that work in boxing? You see, my issue with this is I think it's very difficult to find things that are only used just in football. This is the problem, you know, they'll always be an example but by de facto the fact it's involving a snake it is used in other

parts of the world. Although there is one here I think is definitely one for the glossary which has come from Al in Shropshire. Hi chaps, great show, really enjoyed it. The dog always gets a longer walk when I'm listening to your pod. Following Declan Rice's performance the other night, to wrap a foot around has got to be in there. It's often used. I don't think these phrases are used in any other context nowadays, except maybe a Jilly Cooper novel. Keep up the good work. I'm very much on board with Raptus foot round it. Yes. Yeah I think it's in. The only thing I would take Umbridge with and I think this is the whole point of this podcast is to nitpick. I don't think it means that when it's a player really gets hold of a shot. For me, Raptus foot is when you're putting a bit of side on it, a bit of curve.

You're wrapping your foot around the edge of the ball to then create a curve. So it's not about the power. It's very often a free kick, isn't it? Or a cross. Cross, yeah. But then you can also open your body and wrap your foot and play it into the far bottom corner. I would definitely put that in the glossary. I'm still worried about how Dan thinks that I eat my pie with venom. You know, I don't devour my pies.

I mean, I don't devour my pies. I don't necessarily take as long as the big man necessarily would do when he's eating his. Although I've got to say, the other week I was at Arsenal Fulham and you were talking about earlier on we were talking about being underprepared. I almost lost my commentary notes. There was a gust of wind and we were on the gantry at Arsenal and a little bit like how a cat would jump on a mouse, I actually had to quickly put my right hand down on my commentary notes,

otherwise they were gone and they would have been away and I would have been totally unprepared because I had my teams down, everything, I was already committed and I had to react very very quickly. So that was sort of like devouring something with venom. I'll tell you, if you think that was quick, imagine if the pie was gonna fall off the desk. Imagine how quickly you'd have wrapped your foot around that. What a horrible thought, Ian's foot on a pie. Well, exactly, that's a classic example.

I should have changed the cliche midway through there. This is why I still use physical paper. Like I print out my notes onto actual paper because if notes fall on the ground or fall off a gantry or fall down, A. they won't kill someone, B. they can just be picked up and reused. Whereas I've seen a lot of commentators, all their notes now on iPads, which I appreciate iPads are a bit heavier, the wind won't blow them away, but if they were to fall, that's that done. You won won't be reading those notes so that's definitely why I still do it the old-fashioned way. Back to the glossary Exeter City fan George hello chaps

loving the podcast one for the glossary Nestled Declan Rice's second free kick against Real Madrid Nestled into the top right hand corner beyond the despairing outstretched Timur Courtois all all the best George and Nathan, hi fellas really enjoying the pod so far, usually listen whilst doing a part run on a Saturday morning, my suggestion for the glossary would be nestled in when describing a goal normally into the side netting or a corner, Glenn Murray used it on a recent episode of the Football Daily Debrief. Well Arsenal did enough first half, they were fortunate to break the deadlock with Marinos

goal, it was a deflected goal nestled into the side netting of Leno's goal. Are we having nestled? Can you have nestled in any other sport? I think nestled in football has got to be nestled into the bottom corner, it nestles, it nestles into the bottom corner of the net. But I think as has been suggested to us... Does it come from a birds nest? Is that where the name comes from? No, no, it just nestles down

To me I always thought it was like a nest, you think you put an egg in a nest gently and precisely and place it in there And again, I'm just curious because, and for that reason I think a nest can be high up But could you have it nestled in the wicket keeper's hands? Yes, definitely So on that basis then nestled is vetoed? Yes, unfortunately. Unless we said nestled in the corner of the net. We need to decide, strip with venom.

Is it commonly used enough? I think it's commonly used. That wouldn't be my issue with it. I hear that regularly in football commentaries personally. I do, yeah. Okay, but we are going with wrap your foot around it. Definitely. Yeah. And therefore nestled. Nestled in the bottom corner. It almost feels a shame because it's a lovely expression in football commentary. But if the rules are the rules. Nestled in the bottom corner.

I'll say yes to that. Okay. Nestled in the bottom corner. Well thank you Connor. Thank you John. Stay stay safe both of you. The WhatsApp voice notes 08000 289 369 emails tcv at bbc.co.uk. The next episode of the Football Daily will be in focus with Nottingham Forest Anthony Alanga and remember you can catch every single episode of the Commentators View on the Football Daily Feed on BBC Sounds. Oh, still feeling okay? Yeah, yeah, don't worry. Yes, but it is.

Yeah, it is. Do I let that go now? I'll have to let that go past now because this will need to be edited. Okay. This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy. It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six League Cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League.

And more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial, the Manchester City charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC Sounds.