Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Subbuteo, Slipknot & electric socks

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

5 Live commentators John Murray, Ian Dennis and Alistair Bruce-Ball answer listener questions. From how they got into football to how they relax while on the road, and which are the coldest/warmest grounds in the country? And can Ian finally get a win under his belt in Clash of the Commentators?02:15 Ali talks about presenting on the radio 06:10 John’s Christmas travel troubles 12:40 Why did they get into football? 19:20 How do they relax while traveling? 24:30 Do they listen back to their commentaries? 30:20 How do they look after their voices? 33:10 Can Ian win Clash of the Commentators? 43:05 Is Liverpool-Man Utd a ‘local derby’? 44:40 Which are the coldest/warmest grounds? 47:40 The Great Glossary of Football CommentaryBBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries this weekend: Sat 4 Jan 3pm Crystal Palace v Chelsea, Sat 4 Jan 5:30pm Brighton v Arsenal, Sun 5 Jan 2pm Fulham v Ipswich, Sun 5 Jan 4:30pm Liverpool v Man Utd.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello, I'm John Murray and welcome to the first Commentator's View of 2025. And if you're new to us this season, this is where we take you behind the microphone and tell you the stories that you don't normally get to hear from us five live commentators and with us this week again it is ian dennis and alistair bruce ball so hello to you is it too late for season's greetings when do you not say happy new year i think you could still get away with happy new year now but there becomes

a cutoff point doesn't there? Yeah, I suppose it depends when people are listening to this, doesn't it? Well, in that case, Happy New Year to everybody. Well, Happy New Year to you as well. So, Ali, what did Christmas and New Year look like from your point of view on the footballing sense? Well, the first thing I want to say is this podcast this week has proved an extremely useful exercise already

because you've actually managed to stop me from going to North London this weekend. We were just chatting off air, weren't we, about what games we were doing this weekend, our first games. Well, not for you, John. You've already done a commentary in 2025. I have. But my first game, a few weeks ago, I had written down as Arsenal against Brighton, 5.30 on Saturday. So I was just discussing with you how I was going to get to North London, where I might park, and how I enjoy working at the Emirates and not been there for a while.

And you just said to me, are you sure that game's not in Brighton? I said, no, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I'm going to Arsenal. And I'm very... Honestly, I would have gone. I would have gone to the Emirates Stadium. I had not had that conversation with you this morning.

Well, I covered Arsenal on New Year's Day. Therefore, it was in my mind that they were playing at Brighton. But also I was in touch with Matthew Upson over Christmas and he said, I will see you at Brighton. To which I said, well, I'm not covering that match. I think it's Ali who's covering that match. So that's why I knew that was at Brighton for sure.

In fact, I mean, that's probably going to take us into a certain conversation about whether you've ever turned up. I don't think I've ever turned up at the wrong ground. I don't think that's probably going to take us into a a certain conversation about whether you've ever turned up i don't think i've ever turned up at the wrong ground i don't i don't think that's ever happened to me but that that's as close as i i would have come certainly in a in a long time in in terms of football over christmas john i actually did more presenting than commentating yes of course you did yes yeah that girl yeah well it was good it was good so on boxing day i was sort of doing ian's role so I was this sort of main reporter at the three o'clock game on Boxing Day, which was a Thursday. Was Boxing Day Thursday? It doesn't matter anyway. But the point being is we didn't have commentary rights for the game.

So it was a slightly unusual exercise in that I was sitting there watching the game with Mark Schwartzer as my summariser, but couldn't commentate on the game. We were just sort of using it as our base to go around all the other grounds. I think we had something like 15 or 16 reporters. The game I was watching actually turned into a really Bullums win at Chelsea, where they scored the two late goals and actually deserved that win. And trying to get the balance between sort of talking about what was going on in front of us, but also getting around everywhere else was quite interesting. And then I presented the show on Sunday the 29th. So I was in the sort of Mark Chapman, Steve Crossman role on Sunday the 29th,

which is good. Enjoy doing that. That's when I was down the other end of the line at West Ham. Can I ask you about that presenting role on the 29th on the Sunday? Because as John, I think, had said before Christmas, we've all done various aspects of this job whether it be production or presentation as well as commentating during our local radio careers but when you were doing a local radio presentation shift invariably a lot of it was scripted you had a lot of audio didn't you that you'd play players interviews managers interviews but when you are

say for instance mark chapman on a saturday afternoon because it was essentially a saturday program you're going here there and everywhere what's your prep like for that presentation role rather than a commentary i actually in went in earlier this season on a saturday afternoon to shadow mark presenting that show on a saturday because i've done a bit of presenting, but very rarely the sort of main gig on a Saturday where there is the most amount of football happening at one time and you've got sports report and whatever.

And that was an incredibly useful exercise. And actually more than anything, rather than the prep, it was more about what you have in front of you on your screens as you're presenting that show particularly at half time and full time so you can jump from football to rugby to racing and have all the information at your fingertips and actually just get used to how you're going to sort of navigate your way around that but actually the two key things I would say that I've learned very quickly about presenting one of them comes from a former boss at BBC Radio Bristol, Jeff Twentyman,

who I never presented at local radio level. I only commentated. So it was only when I came to Five Live that I started doing a little bit of presenting. And the one key thing he said to me, because before I ever did any of it, I sort of called him and said, any tips? And he said, always, always, always know what your next thing is going to be. Just wonder where you're going next. So if the thing you're currently on falls down, the line disappears,

you know where you're going next. And then the other thing I think I've learned from watching and listening to all our great presenters, whether it's Mark Chapman, Steve Crossman, Kelly Cates, Mark Pugach, Ellie Oldroyd, you know, whoever you name, is just listen. You know, I think when you're quite nervous and not used to doing a certain role, you quite like a lot of it scripted and you sort of follow a script and think about what you're going to say next. But by doing that, I think you miss a lot of what your contributors say.

And when you present a show like, you know, that show on Boxing Day, you've got so many brilliant guests who are going to tell you so much fantastic stuff. As long as you just sit and listen to them and then trust yourself to listen and hopefully ask a decent follow-up question, you know, that's a very good lesson, I think. And so where you are going next is Brighton and not Arsenal. Because I listened to John this morning, exactly. And I didn't listen to Ross the boss when he gave me my games.

Well, pleased to be of service. One thing I was going to mention about our various travels, and I always find that over Christmas and New Year, the travelling can be quite a challenge, can't it? And also, I think because you want to, well, you always want to get home, but I think particularly over Christmas and New Year, you don't want to be too late, do you?

And when I was travelling back from West Ham after the Liverpool match, I needed to get back to my car, which I'd left at Peterborough Station. So I had to get back from West Ham to King's Cross. So that, do they still call it the Javelin? It's that fast train between St Pancras and Stratford International.

But after that match, when West Ham lost so badly so George who was the producer had gone down to do the interviews but I thought I really do need to see Julen Lopetegui just to see what sort of mood he's in so by the time the press conference got finished I was looking at my watch I'm thinking I'm pushing this a little bit here so got got to Stratford International. I thought I've done quite well. However, I just missed the next train to St. Pancras. And the next one was going to be half an hour. And I really wanted to get the five past nine train from King's Cross to Peterborough. And it only takes seven minutes, that train from Stratford to St. Pancras. So I got there and it was 8.50. So the train was going to leave Stratford at 8.50 which meant it was going to get into St Pancras at 8.57 which was going to give me seven minutes to get to the train and onto it at King's Cross so I thought well that's fine but I won't book my ticket just

yet just in case anyway it's one minute late then it comes up delayed two minutes so it's one minute late. Then it comes up delayed two minutes. So it's now getting in at nine. So I thought, I think I can do that at St. Pancras because it's very close. So booked a ticket. So the ticket is booked to get on the 905. Going to St. Pancras, fine. Raced off there across the concourse onto King's Cross and where you can go upstairs which

is what i very often do onto that upper level so you go down the escalators which takes you on the platform and i thought i'm going to do this comfortably got through the barriers went along that bridge over the platforms it's platform six turn to my left platform six the escalator is blocked off so the train is down below me but the escalator is blocked off and i thought i'm gonna have to go on the lift turned around there's a man there in front of the lift who says sorry sir the lift's not working i said but that's my train it's leaving i'm looking 903 and it's 905 to leave and he said uh sorry so you'll have to go down the next platform and run round so i thought i can make this so off i go down the next platform at the point where they've just called that train i've now got an army of travelers running and walking towards me

and i'm like running through them dodging through them all to get round to the bottom and then come back up there i mean they're literally there with their whistles and their signs in there ready to go got there pressed the button got on the train doors closed train left you made it made it if only we could get the cctv footage and that could make it an excellent wheel of spiel it would i think if you got the footage of me, do you remember John Cleese in Clockwise? I'm just thinking of that. Just thinking of that. It would definitely have an element of that. Yeah.

That's the great, great misunderstanding which sets that whole film in motion, John, isn't it? When he walks onto the platform and speaks to the conductor at the edge of the platform and is doing that sort of, is it the train on the left or the right? That's right. And he goes left and then John Cleese goes right, right, like that. It all starts from there, doesn't it? Yeah. But as you know, Ian, that's not unusual for me, is it? That kind of thing. Well, it was me thinking that the train waited for you rather than you rushing for the train. I'm not Hair Chapman, you know. No, I'm making no comment about hair chapman no well probably just as far as i'll be listening he's almost certainly anyway what we're going to do this week on the commentator's voice is that we're actually going

to focus on listeners questions because once sorry how do you go it's the commentator's view john you just called the commentator's voice we could call it oh sorry sorry it's the comment thank you very much anyway what we're going to do this week on the commentators view is that we're going to focus on listeners questions because once ali we got the we did in the end get the email sorted out and once we've done that there's been quite a response so we should say thank you very much for all of the emails that you've sent in to tcv at bbc.co.uk so you're very welcome to join in on that and send us more of them um it's very difficult to get through all of them but what we're going to do is dedicate this episode we might do it again to getting through more of them than we would usually so we we do get a lot of questions about how we all started in this job

and what inspired us to get into football commentary. And we can start with what is a really nice one, I felt, from Jonathan Stansfield, who's a Blackburn Rovers fan, who is in Canada. And he says, I would love to hear about a moment in your lives when you realised just how important football is to you. When I was 17, I travelled back to Blackburn for a family holiday, going to watch Rovers play Arsenal in the beginning of that 07-08 season.

I was bitten by the bug, he says. Going into the city of Blackburn with my brother and family, stopping at a local pub to meet another uncle, and walking to Ewood Park where the noise and energy progressively grew until we entered the ground to a crescendo of noise. The energy was infectious. I now try to impart my children and others around me with the love for football and the joy it emotes. My five-year-old daughter is torn about joining in with my passion for rovers or ribbing me and pretending that she disdains rovers it's great fun and always brings us together with laughter and joy when we celebrate or mourn for blackburn's wins and losses i think it's fascinating that we attach such high value to a game that is merely kicking a spherical

object around a rectangular field how can a simple sport evoke profound feelings of love and connection it's a really lovely email that isn't it and and he sent us some pictures as well of of him jonathan and his five-year-old daughter and newborn baby as well and they've all got their england shirts on so that is the question for all of us when did you realize how important football is to you just talking about that feeling john that jonathan talks about there about going to Ewood Park on the first few occasions and that buzz before a game. I have to say I still get that now. I think one of my favourite things of covering football is when we first arrive at a stadium. I often film this occasionally for social media. The last time I

did it was at the Olympic Stadium in Berlin. You know when you get into a stadium and you can sense the arena is very close, but you can't quite see it. And then you make that walk up a set of steps and the whole thing sort of opens out in front of you. I remember that my very first game I went to at Portman Road with my dad and my brother, that incredible buzz that gave me of walking up those steps and then just looking at this place that I'd heard about and I'd seen on television, but I'd never been to before. But that for me is still, I still get a buzz from going into stadiums and that walk. I just remember as a kid, just walking into a massive football stadium

and the whole thing opening up and, you know, just being laid out. Before the actions even started I love that going into sort of empty empty footballing arenas but um but in terms of getting me started in my love for football I mean that would be sort of Ipswich in the 80s but actually particularly I think in terms of sort of consuming football probably more via television than radio actually for me to begin with my earliest memories would be cup finals FA, 84, when that great Everton team beat Graham Taylor's Watford. 85, the Norman Whiteside goal against Everton, which I think is still one of my favourite goals I've ever seen.

86, Liverpool-Everton. And then the 86 World Cup, where my brother and I would watch a game in our playroom, and then we would open the slide doors onto the back garden, and we would go out and be whichever players we had just won. I remember so much being Preben Elkjaer and Jan Molby and Jesper Olsen, that brilliant Danish team in 1986 and trying to recreate those goals. There must have been a Hugo Sanchez in there as well. Yeah, definitely.

There was definitely some Hugo Sanchez. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My first memory was probably 78 FA Cup final. We were at a neighbour's house, Ipswich beating Arsenal. Remember the 78 World Cup, vague memories of that. But also I think my love of football is that my dad used to take me and my brother, my twin brother, to the local field.

And he'd be in goal and he would commentate and he'd toss the ball out and me and my brother then would try and obviously get past each other and then try and beat my dad to score a goal but my dad would commentate and I think that was probably the the first influence that helped me or wanted I knew I always wanted to be a commentator so then when we grew a little bit older me and my brother would play subutio. Controversially, we'd play it on the carpet rather than the table. I know it was a table football game, but there was a better control of the ball on the

carpet. I don't think that's controversial. I think most people would play on the carpet rather than the table. Right, yeah. The bounce off the table was a little akin to kennel with road in the early days of the plastic pitch. The bounce was just too ridiculous. So we played on the the carpet but i would then commentate when we were playing subutio and then the catalyst i think for me to become a professional commentator was a letter i wrote to

john motsen in 88 and i think his words of advice actually apply to anybody now regardless of what profession they want to follow he just said if you've got determination and enthusiasm they were his two key words for attributes you require then that was the catalyst that gave me the inspiration then to follow his advice but whether you want to be a commentator a doctor or you know whatever profession I think if you've got determination and enthusiasm it will help you succeed i think my experience would be very similar to you too as well in that it was very much family influence very sporting family not just our family but the sort of extended family as well so you know i remember my cousin tim was absolutely you know red hot keen on football before i was and i think that was quite an influence and also my closest

friends at school as well who i think also were were into football more earlier than I was but but also being from the north east I remember those early cup finals for me were 73 and 74 when Sunderland and Newcastle were involved and really I at that stage I wasn't very interested in football but I remember the family gathering around and uh and we'd watch those cup finals and similarly Argentina 78 was a big influence on me and but what was the I think the biggest influence on me was in my middle school in Holtwistle in Northumberland the head teacher there Mr. Teichler was absolutely he was an absolute sport fanatic and he arranged school trips for us so from Northumberland you know rural northumberland he arranged a bus to take us to wembley for the home international between england and wales which was the first that was the first match i went to with all of my school friends and it's

exactly as you say ali i remember walking into the old wembley stadium up the steps you know and i was just blown away by walking into Wembley and seeing it and you know I think for me that was where I thought I want to be involved in this kind of thing I don't think I properly thought about that until until almost the end of university for me where I got to a point where I thought I do not know what I want to do I mean you two already know and probably quite tickled by the fact that my degree was in Italian and drama. So I'm not entirely sure where that was going to take me. I was just having a good time at university doing those subjects.

And it was my mum. It was my mum who said to me, you know, she sort of pointed out my love of sport and, you know, enjoyment of sort of language. I was never good at maths and sciences. It was more about languages in English and whatever. And she was the one who sort of pushed me towards sports journalism. So I, you know, have to thank her.

I still do every single day for pushing me towards the career I've ended up in. So thanks very much, Jonathan, for that question. And good luck with following Blackburn for the rest of the season. Let's pick some out randomly each, shall we? And have you got the one, either of you, from Phil in Southwick? Yes, Phil says,

travel, as we've already heard from John in this pod, takes up a significant part of your life, especially for European games or even further afield. So I'm interested to know how you relax or pass the time. Apparently Ian has a passion for deacon blue uh it's been mentioned a few times that's got a wink emoji beside it ian but what about abb or jm uh favorite music or artist when driving on trains or planes have you become a convert to slipkknot, Ali? Slipknot. Slipknot, yes. No,

is the answer to that, John. So I took my eldest son to his first big proper gig just before Christmas, which was Slipknot, who are quite extreme. I don't know how much you've listened to their material or not, John. I actually read a Guardian review before I went, and the Guardian described it as an evening of exhilarating sonic brutality. So it was loud. It was out there, and the mosh pit was terrifying. We were at the O2, and we were sitting up in the gods, and we were well away from all that.

I mean, they've got a proper passionate cult following. But what I really enjoyed about it, John, was I was watching my boy Ewan and his enjoyment of the event and the music and actually just being at a big event, a big event like that, whether it's sport or music or whatever, and actually what was quite sweet was in the row that we were sitting, there was a woman sitting next to me on my right. So I had my son on my left and Ewan on my left and this woman woman on my right and halfway through she she saw at the start of the concert i'd already put my earplugs in so i was genuinely worried about my because i was working at the weekend that my

hearing was going to go for about three days so i popped some earplugs in and she saw me doing that and about halfway through the concert she tapped me on the knee when there was a there was a very sort of gentle lull in proceedings and she just said well done dad like that so she'd very she very obviously clocked what was going on that i wasn't in my natural habitat and that uh and that ewan was absolutely loving it but she'd spotted so how many gentle lulls in proceedings were there during the course no no no it was uh it was interesting so so uh slip not no slip not no um i don't i think i'm more of a podcast guy than a No, no, it was interesting. So Slipknot, no. Slipknot, no. I think I'm more of a podcast guy than a music guy. So I actually do a lot of my travelling in the car,

and I listen to a lot of podcasts and speech radio more than music. Although, like Ian, I am a, you know, if some music was going to go on, the Rain Town album, Ian, from Deacon Blue, that is one of my favourites, I have to say. I'm very much on your side there. Well, I mean, I've got the entire back catalogue of Deacon Blue

on a USB now because the car doesn't accept the old CD. So I've downloaded all the CDs onto a USB. And if I'm flagging, I've got Deacon Blue live in concert in Sheffield

many, many years ago. And I just whack on Real Gone gone kid and for about eight minutes I turn it up really loud and then that will just give me a little bit of it'll re-energize my drive home and keep me going so so Deacon Blue not only they're close to my heart but they also make sure that I'm I'm very much uh thriving when I'm driving do you know I saw Jackie Oatley over Christmas and we were having this very conversation about what you listen to on the way to matches. And Jackie, and we must get Jackie on here

one of these times because she's got some great stories. And she was very much like you, Ali, on the way she will listen to podcasts. Whereas personally, I quite like listening to something completely different on the way to the match. So I listen to a lot of, generally I listen to live radio Whereas personally, I quite like listening to something completely different on the way to the match. So I,

I listened to a lot of generally I listened to live radio on the way music. So I listened to, to, to that sort of thing. Although I do quite like doing occasionally on a Sunday morning when I'm on the way to the matches, listening to the archers omnibus, which is quite,

quite a nice departure from, from, you know, it's just completely different. So I feel that when you're going to be concentrating from, you know, it's just completely different. So I feel that when you're going to be concentrating for, you know, the latter part of the day quite hard, I quite like to do something where you're not concentrating, if you know what I mean.

My favourite, though, actually would be live sport. If I can time a journey with live sport, so listening to our football coverage. But actually, it wouldn't happen. No, although, you know, often John, if I get given an assignment that say up in the Northwest or Northeast, let's say on a Monday night, I've had a game on a Tuesday and I'd listen to the Monday night club. I will try and time my journey.

Cause that will, for me, three, four hours will fly by listening to that. You just, you just don't even notice you're sort of doing the journey. Or test my special. Of course,

once we get sort of a late season, early season, if you're traveling, when there's or test my special of course once we get sort of a late season early season if you're traveling when there's a test match on and you know to me you know people talk about influences you know my early days test my special was a massive influence on my broadcasting i would say so i still love listening to that although you still haven't told phil what your favorite music or artists i. I tell you what I would say to Phil, two of my big favourites at the moment, and this is very much travelling after a match on a

Sunday night, when I do a lot of driving on a Sunday night, because I'll almost always be commentating on a Sunday, and I'm hugely into Shana Leary and Alex Holcomb, who are two of the DJs on Radio 1 on a Sunday night. So Shana Leary, who I think is brilliant, she presents the Chiller Show.

And then Alex Holcomb after that presents the Indie Show. And that takes you right through the evening. And I think they're really listenable and also play lots of music that i really like so so that's that's who i'd mention the other thing you can do as well i don't know if you've ever done this but obviously you can on the bbc sounds app you can obviously go back and listen again to stuff that's already been so for example if i've what like our commentaries for example well that's what i'm saying john i would i would listen Sometimes I would go back and think, I know what's happened on a Saturday afternoon,

but I'd quite like to hear how that played out on Five Live on a Saturday afternoon. And I'd go back to my Saturday three o'clock. And the other thing you can obviously do, and actually this is not a question that's been sent in to us, but it's one that's just popped into my head. I'd be interested to know if you two do this. Do you ever listen back to your own commentaries? I think so.

Hasn't somebody sent a question in have they right i used to do it all the time every commentary i would listen back the beauty of bbc sounds is that we always tell the reporters on a saturday afternoon for the three o'clock 15 seconds max but if you press the forward wine button on bbc sounds it will skip forward 20 seconds. And therefore, I've found a novel way of finding out now who's on the naughty list. So every time we hand over to a

reporter, I press the forward wine button. And if they're still reporting, then I know that I'll tell the producers for next week, oh, so-and-so needs a reminder. They were too long last week. And so I've found a novel way of monitoring who's good and who's bad in that respect but also i used to listen to every commentary and i still do occasionally

but pat nevin said it's the first sign of madness because you're you are listening for a mistake and he was right i was but that's how i want to improve that's how i strive for perfection knowing i'll never reach perfection. Yeah, I mean, by listening to yourself, I think you can find, particularly I find, phrases that I repeat for my liking too often in a commentary. Yeah. Classic

example for me is right-hand side or left-hand side, rather than just right or left. So often, that hand side that you chuck in, you know, and it's fine to do a few of them isn't it but i sometimes i'll listen to myself i think how many times how many times are you going to say that and then into the next game you can sort of take that in and think about you know as you say using it as a as a means to to just to try and improve i'll tell you what i found is a

fascinating experience of listening back to your own commentary, which for the reasons that you've outlined, Ian, I tend not to do because I find that just dry. And it, you know, what Pat says is absolutely right. It drives you mad. And you end up, I find that you end up tormenting yourself by listening back because you pick out everything that you think I should have done that differently. But great experience I had of listening back.

You know, when the stage play Dear England was on recently about Gareth Southgate's England, I'd heard that that featured my commentary on Harry Kane missing his penalty against France at the World Cup, which I hadn't heard back probably since the time that it happened. And so people had said that it features in the play so eventually I went to see the play so I'm sitting in the audience in the theatre knowing that this is coming up so and I was thinking how on earth is this going to play out so I'm sitting there waiting for it to come on and I got strangely nervous like you

would when the when a big moment's coming up I was thinking why am I feeling nervous about this I'm feeling like I'm going to have to do this but I'm not it's going to get played out and then when the moment comes and the commentary starts and they actually play quite a big chunk of it it was quite a it was a bizarre bizarre experience and in that you know i felt like my heart rate was increasing sitting listening to my commentary thinking during the course of it thinking don't mess it up don't mess it up i think i can't this is being played in yeah but also john and i probably particularly you guys do in england it probably pays you know not to think too much about doing it.

But if you sit there and you think about those big moments that you have commentated on, and the amount of people that would have been hanging on your every word at that time, sort of as you sit in that theatre and listen to that, that probably makes that apparent as well. Because, you know, there's so many people who have been who have heard those words yeah but you don't really think about and as i say not really listening back a lot to what i do other than what i actually hear on the radio that was a very strange out-of-body experience the football daily podcast on bbc sounds weekend mornings on five live sat Saturdays from 9am. Patrick Kielty. Ah, good morning folks. There you are. And at 11, fighting talk.

With Rick Edwards. It's the debates you have with your mates in the pub or the group chat thrashed out furiously on national radio. Sundays from 10. Colleen Murray. Conversation, connection and community. That's what this show's all about. Weekend Mornings on BBC Radio 5 Live.

The Commentator's View on the Football Daily Podcast. BBC Radio 5 Live. Right, come on, let's have one more before Clash of the Commentators. Which one are we going to go with? This one is interesting. This is from Eden. I'm a singer.

I know that sometimes having to rely on your voice is a job that can be quite stressful, this time of year especially. I'm using lots of herbal teas, vocal steamers, ginger shots, copious amounts of water to look after my voice. I also wear a special face mask for short-haul flights whenever I go to Europe for gigs, just to protect against the usual plain air conditioning issues. Another schedule for you guys is just as bonkers. Do you as commentators also have to maintain your voice? What do you do to keep the vocal cords ship shape? Well, go on Ian, because you're the other one who's been struggling with this most

recently. Well, for the last fortnight, I do feel as if my voice has been under pressure. So I've got some special throat pastels that are very good for those who work using their vocal cords. And also chocolate is very good. Do you remember a long, long time ago when we joined Radio 5? We had a voice specialist who told us various techniques to warm up the voice but she also said chocolate is great for a sore throat mars bars in particular other brands are available but um so i i now i'm taking a lot of chocolate and also i don't wear the face mask on the plane but i don't have the air conditioning on in the room. And I try to keep my voice lubricated as best as I can.

And recently I've been going to bed with warm milk and a shot of rum. That's just an excuse to drink rum before bedtime, isn't it? As you know, I don't need an excuse. This reminds me of, so I mean, we all struggle with this from time to time. Funnily enough, John, just talking about listening back to ourselves, I heard a bit of my commentary from the Olympic Games earlier this summer. And it was a bit of commentary after which you'd actually texted me. I don't know where you were listening to it.

And you'd said something like, hmm, voice sounds a little, you know, a little throaty there. And I probably didn't even realize it at the time, but listen back. And, you know, that's two weeks of solid, solid commentary and the voice taking an absolute hammering. I don't have any particular strategies that the one I remember, though, that this email reminds me of is just before we went to the Euros in France in 2016. I was struggling with my voice at the time. And just before going to France for a month, I remember the doctor saying to me, what you're really going to have to cut out is cheese and red wine. I was like, I've got absolutely, I've got no chance.

Maybe we should be asking Eden. We should. What singers do regarding their tips. Maybe Eden, if Eden is listening, could email back in and offer their words of wisdom. Yeah, and we've scratched the surface there. We were going to run through a load of questions here. We've only done about three.

But, John, there's so many brilliant ones that have come in that I think each individual question is almost worth a pot on its own. So I would say to people, please keep sending them in because we are keeping them. We are reading them all and we will get to them, won't we? We will get to them because there's some brilliant questions

in there that we've not touched today. We will. So do tcv at bbc.co.uk to email us in with your questions and suggestions as indeed you will be able to do when we talk about the great glossary of football commentary.

But now it is time for the first Clash of the Commentators of 2025. And you're the quiz master this week, Ali. So it's, as Lloyd Grossman would say, over to you. Clash of the Commentators on the clock, as I was saying last time out. You'll be amused to know that I spent Christmas Day with my family, and the first thing my father said to me, before he even said Merry Christmas, was he remarked on how poorly I'd performed on Asian capital cities, and he was frankly ashamed of me that I only managed to get two in 30 seconds.

So it's great to know he's listening. I let him down terribly. So if you listened to the last episode, John managed to rattle off 10. I was actually disappointed with my effort until you came on. Yeah. And I got two and had an absolute nightmare. So today, so that's my 100% record gone. So at the moment, this is the way we're scoring this this season.

I am two from three. It's quite American that I'm two from three. John is two from two. And Denno's looking for his first win and today is john against denno and if you've listened to the last few podcasts this is the way we're we're playing this now so we're going to we're going to give the guys a category they're going to get 30 seconds to name as many correct answers within that category as they can while the first player goes the other player is obviously going to have to take their headphones off and not listen so they can't be aware of

any potential answers. Who would like to go first? I'm not going to give you the category yet, obviously, because that would give an advantage to the second player. Who would like to go first today? I'm just wondering how I'm going to turn my headphones. Oh, I can just unplug the headphones, can't I?

Unplug the headphones, John. Genius. Do you want to do that and we'll let Denno go first today? Okay. Go on. Go on. I'm going to be able to watch you, but won't you? Well, don't lip read. Don't lip read. I walked off. I walked off for 30 seconds. I just disappeared. Do what you want, John. Amuse yourself. And I'm going to

prove it by... Yes, we can see. Disconnected. I pulled out. Disconnected. I can't see okay right so ian it's a new year we are a quarter of the way through this century manchester united and liverpool who are playing each other this weekend have met 60 times since the turn of the millennium so since 2000 they've met 60 times can you name any players who've scored in those games so Manchester United Liverpool games since 2000 there are 73 possible answers here but I'm told because there are so many we're actually going to do minus points for any incorrect answers which seems a tad harsh to to me but just chuck out as many as you can let's start the clock Salah Gerrard

Murphy Torres Firmino Mane Vidic Rashford, Owen, Rooney, Scholes, Beckham. Very calm answering. I've got 12 answers given, so we've now just got to check how many of those are correct. I do have an answer sheet in front of me.

I know the production team are going to be doing this as well. Shall I talk you through them? So Salah, yes. Gerrard, yes. Murphy was a great shout. Twice, Denno. Both winners at Old Trafford, in fact. Yeah, I remember.

In 2002 and 2004. I hope John's not connected yet. Fernando Torres is correct. Firmino's correct. Did it four times. Mane's correct. Firmino's corrected it four times. Mane's correct. Vidic, Vidic, Vidic. Yes, correct. Very good. Rashford,

correct. Michael Owen, four times. Wayne Rooney, Paul Sculls. You know what? I think you've got 12 correct here. As long as Beckham's on that list, he must be. 12 correct answers. Really calm, Denno. That was good. Right, we're giving John the thumbs up yeah you happy with that are you happy with your performance yes I am because uh I made a point of not repeating myself as well

yeah yeah Denno's happy with his performance John he's got 12 correct answers in 30 seconds there's a lot it is a lot not so much for half an hour but it was a lot. Half a minute. It is a lot. Not so much for half an hour. But it was very calm for me. There was no panic there, no rush. Just picked them off. So, to continue your winning record,

this is your challenge. Manchester United and Liverpool, John, you'll be commentating on them this weekend. They've met 60 times since the turn of the millennium. Can you name

any player who has scored in those games? There are 73 possible answers, and Denno only got 12 of them. But, and here's the rub, we're doing minus points for any incorrect answers. Oh, that's a shame.

I was just going to reel off a load of names. Well, that's what I would do. I mean, maybe you should, and just, you know. Anyway, are you ready to play? I am. Okay, let's start the clock. Okay, Steven Gerrard, I mean, maybe you should and just, you know, anyway, are you ready to play? I am. Okay. Let's start the clock. Okay.

Steven Gerrard, Danny Murphy, Wayne Rooney, Marcus Rashford, Cristiano Ronaldo, Carlos Mo Salah Roberto Firmino Sadio Mane Virgil van Dijk I don't think he's got enough there 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 So Dero has won I'm not sure van Dijk has won. He's done well there. I'm not sure Van Dijk has scored

against him. Van Dijk is on the list, John. And the other one you mentioned that Ian didn't was Tevez, who is also on the list, and Ronaldo,

who Ian didn't mention. But the others, Ian mentioned all of those. But, so your 10 are correct, Ian's 12 are correct. He's doing well to get 12 there. Ian gets his first win

of the season. Congratulations. Well done. Starting off his first win of the season. Congratulations. Very well done. Starting off the new year with a bang. New year, new me. Well, we both know that's not the case, don't we? Very good, very good. Yeah, no, congratulations, Ian.

Well done, well done. It hasn't come sooner or later, and it finally has. I guess we would say to our listeners as well, if you've got an idea for a category for Clash of the Commentators, then we welcome suggestions on that as well. That is a good idea. Yeah, tcv at bbc.co.uk. And me once again proving that I'm actually better at the non-football questions than I am when it's a football question. Anyway, speaking of football, the five live commentaries this weekend, and I've got to be careful here because Phil Young gets in touch,

thanking Ian for calling Brighton, Brighton and Hove Albion in full rather than just Brighton. And he also says a commentary bugbear of his is referring to Manchester United as just United, which I know upsets a lot of people doesn't it I'm with him on that and the same applies to City as well yes absolutely and uh

and Phil says they are not unique or deserving of special status now I'll climb down from my soapbox he says but if you're in the middle of a game that's only involving Manchester United and another team or Manchester City and another team, would you not do it? I get it in general reference, just presuming that everyone thinks United and Manchester United, but for economy of language, would you not? Or would you always say Manchester United? Probably.

I'd do that. Although it is tricky. If it's like Manchester United against Newcastle United, then... Well, yeah. You can't say United there. No, you absolutely can't. Absolutely, you can't. The other one I always think is, I always like to call them Wolverhampton Wanderers at some point during a commentary.

Yeah. I'm the same with Tottenham Hotspur. Tottenham Hotspur. Yeah. And also Bradford City. Yes. Because there's Bradford Park Avenue. And Hull City.

Could be Hull Kingston Rovers. Or just Hull FC. Anyway, five live commentaries over the course of the coming days Ian is going back to Crystal Palace again Crystal Palace against Chelsea Ian is the three o'clock commentary Paul Robinson's with you as well for that one he is Saturday 5 30 as discussed it is Brighton and Hove Albion against Arsenal. So that is you with Matt Upson. And on Sunday, the two matches, both on Five Live. Two o'clock, Fulham against Ipswich.

That will be Chris Coles and Stephen Warnock. And then half past four on Sunday, Pat Nevin will be alongside me at Anfield for Liverpool against Manchester United. And actually one thing we haven't mentioned is, over the course of Christmas and the New Year, the matches that I've commentated on, the scores have been 4-3

1-5 3-6, 0-5 and 1-3. That's not a bad run, is it? Now, that is why I'm pleased, because we're starting a new competition in 2025, our Golden Mike competition, to see which commentator commentates on the most goals during the remainder of this season.

And please, that hasn't started until the 1st of January 2025, where you have got your four. A meagre return of four. Four for Brentford Arsenal. But listen, Conor McNamara often argues this during major tournaments because he would always claim

he gets fewer games. Like once the tournaments go further, you guys obviously do the semi-finals and the final. Are we just going base number of goals or are we going to go on a goals per game ratio? Yeah, probably.

You need to do that, yeah. Yeah, it'd have to be goals per game because the big men often sometimes work Saturday and Sunday. There we go. How many goals, John, do you think you'll see then between Liverpool and Manchester United? Also, as with

all of those matches, I know that we've said, whoever I've been commentating alongside, we've said this will not be nil-nil. And I think Sunday is also one which I'm sure will not be nil-nil. And actually, just as regards

Liverpool-Manchester United, would you describe it as a local derby? Because Paul in Milton Keynes writes in to tcv at bbc.co.uk, he says, being such a pedant, something that's always annoyed me is the term local derby. My argument is that every derby is by definition local so you do not need the word local it's just a derby there are different derbies though aren't there i mean we got into this conversation and we know that brighton crystal palace isn't a derby it's a rivalry but if you are going to argue that by its very nature a derby has to be local then there's no need to say local derby. I agree with that.

It always quite amuses me when we refer to international matches as derbies as well. But also Manchester-Liverpool is not a local derby. It's a derby, but it's not local. Whereas Everton-Liverpool is a local derby. Exactly. So what about Middlesbrough-Newcastle? No, I would say that's a derby. I wouldn't say it's a local derby.

I would say Sunderland and Newcastle is a local derby. North East clubs. Because there's nine miles apart. So what is the distance limit? The limit. Well, Newcastle to Middlesbrough must be what? I think 30 miles. Ipswich and Norwich are in different counties.

Is that a local derby? Well, if Germany against Netherlands can be described as a derby. Yes, a local derby though, is it? But yeah. So anyway, there's a bit of food for thought for Paul. So thank you, Paul, for that. And also an appropriate question for this weekend. Duncan says, as an Oldham Athletic supporter,

I feel that Boundary Park or Ice Station Zebra, as the legendary Joee royal named it is the coldest ground to watch football in the country even in august what would you say is the coldest ground and how do you counteract the cold during a three hour plus stint in a commentary position well nowadays there are enough gadgets to make you look like an advert for ready break with the glow because you've got you've got gadgets you can heat up your socks you've got a heated gilet that can go underneath your coat as well as your gloves and your hat so we are we are blessed with modern technology in that respect do you use any of that ian oh yes do you and And I am, or no?

I cannot bear being cold. Oh, no, no, I agree with you there, but I mean, just layers, just simple layers. They don't need to be plugged in, and you don't need electric trousers to stay warm at a football ground. I haven't got electric trousers, but I've got to say the electric socks

are a game changer. Sounds quite Wallace and Gromit, doesn't it? But I know, and I won't name him, but I know, in fact, there's two. I know two pundits who we work with who carry with them electric blankets. One of them sits on the blanket and the other one drapes the blanket over his knees. And if you are next to this aforementioned pundit, sometimes if he's feeling generous he'll just stretch a little bit over over your legs as well i've got to say that you

know that's not bad either yeah i say i'm not very keen on all of that because i don't think that's necessarily that healthy for you you know and plus of that i like to feel like it is i like to feel the conditions that we're in. And I think, you know, as you two know, I'm a big believer in a hat, which was very much a Jimmy Armfield piece of advice, was always wear a hat in the winter. And it works. And a hat also, and you put your hood up.

If you've got your hat on and you put a hood up, that's quite protective. Thermal socks, feet are crucial for me. Feet have to stay warm. So thermal socks. And the other me feet have to stay warm so thermal socks and the other end of the scale very quickly steve froggatt who we used to commentate with he used to wear a t-shirt at stoke in the winter he would wear so few layers i mean i don't know whether it was it just didn't feel the cold i mean just but that would be one of the coldest stoke i mean that's a famous one liverpool for me now up high high there, on a cold afternoon. If the wind's blowing,

it blows up your trousers. And also, just quickly, Pete Richardson also writes in on a similar theme, says, which ground is the warmest to commentate at

in the winter? Which, without doubt, I think, is Old Trafford because you're packed in so tightly at Old Trafford

that I'm never cold at Old Trafford. But also the press box has got carpet, so therefore your feet aren't concrete. It's not on concrete, it's on the carpet. That makes a difference. That's a very good spot there. And finally,

onto the great glossary of football commentary, as we now call it, after, who was it who sent in the uh the email and suggested that it should be that not dictionary but glossary and you can't sleep yeah steve from gateshead was it yeah i think you're right he was absolutely right so we're building a collection of football terms related to football commentary and we have to decide each week whether our listener contribution makes the cut and this week's possible entry comes from Tom Milner in Leamington Spa,

who says a couple of possible additions relating to architecture. First, the corridor of uncertainty. Then, walls therein may be fitted with draft excluders, even though in any other setting other than football, a draft excluder would be fitted to a door, not a wall. It therefore follows that, in fact, a player fitted across the bottom of a defensive wall should be more accurately be described as a skirting board.

All the best, Tom. And he is right, isn't he? Yeah, but that's getting very literal, Tom, isn't it? I might throw that in, I think, as a couple of skirting boards. Yeah, do it. People with draft excluders at home, that sort of body lying on, I'm happy with draft excluder there,

I think. But I'd like, I'm looking forward to hearing you, But that should go in the glossary, shouldn't it? The draft excluder. The draft excluder should go in there. What about the corridor?

Do you use that in football? That's a cricketing phrase, that has now, but has become a footballing phrase, for that ball that's played across the edge of the six-yard box from the wing. I love sitting in a stand and getting, you know, the view of exactly that delivery you're talking about.

You know when you can see it just before it happens? You can see the space, and then you think, if that delivery's right, defenders retreating, goalkeeper doesn't know whether to come or go, player running onto it. Yeah, but I agree with you. That's always for me. Corridor of uncertainty is... Which I would associate with Geoffrey Boycott, who apparently did claim it as his own. He said during the England tour of the Caribbean in 1990, it was the first proper spell of commentating that I did for Sky, he says. And it was a phrase I came up with on the spot. So that's always been in my mind

that it was a Geoffrey Boycott phrase. But apparently newspaper cuttings from 1989 show it goes back even further. And it being attributed to the Australian cricketer Terry Alderman, who was an absolute master, wasn't he, of the corridor of uncertainty. Did he play for Kent?

I think he did, yeah. It might have been during that series. He had Graham Gooch on toast during one series and Gooch just could not fathom him out, could he? A lot of LBWs, I seem to remember. A lot of LBWs from the corridor of uncertainty. From the corridor, that's right. Absolutely right, yeah.

So are we happy with corridor of uncertainty? We do use it, don't we? No. Does it go in our football glossary? No, I don't think it does. It's cricket parlance. Okay. The one I would like to put in,

and you didn't do this, did you, on the one that I... Have you still not listened? I've been busy trying to catch trains at Stratford International. Did you include brandished? No, we've not included it. I strongly think brandished should be in the the glossary and this

goes back to an email we had in from mark smethurst from aberdeen who said and he actually picks me up for mentioning which i have done occasionally over the years because football commentators football commentators will use the word brandished for red and yellow cards and i think the only one area that you will hear the word brandished used there is in court reports which relate to sawn off shotguns so i think brandished is definitely a word that should go in the glossary agreed agreed and if you have any suggestions for the great glossary of football commentary, do send them to us at tcv at bbc.co.uk. And if we haven't got to yours yet, we may well do so. That's it then. Thank you very much for listening. The next episode of the Football Daily will be in focus with JJ Okocha.

We've come up with some great choices, haven't we? Some of the random people that have appeared on In Focus With, and JJ Okocha is the next one. And then on Sunday, it'll be the Premier League review with Darren Fletcher, Clinton Morrison and Glenn Murray. Any questions for them? I have one. I have one. I have one and I'm going to borrow one from Jazzy Nuneaton who sent us this question to tcv at bbc.co.uk.

It's commentary related. Has there ever been a standout phrase or moment of football commentary that stands out to you? So in all their time covering the game, playing the game, watching the game, listening to the game, what is the phrase of commentary that most sticks with them that is my question for them i'm sure that darren will have an answer to that so that is it ian dennis alistair bruce ball thank you very much thanks john the commentator's view will be back

next week it's the commentator's view, not the commentator's voice, John. Voice. You said the voice. Thanks. Thanks for pointing that out. Hello, sports fans. It's Greg James here coming to you with an exciting announcement.

Starting on Monday the 6th of January, every morning on the Radio 1 Breakfast Show, you could be in with a chance of winning some amazing sporting prizes, including tickets to the men's and women's FA Cup finals, Wimbledon, the Formula One Grand Prix at Silverstone, and more. To find out

more details, make sure you're listening to The Breakfast Show with me, Greg James, every morning from 7 o'clock. And go well.