Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Ticket prices & ‘needing snookers’

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

Ian Dennis, Conor McNamara & Mike Minay talk Premier League, their travels and the language of football commentary. BBC racing commentator John Hunt joins the pod ahead of the Grand National. And Clash of the Commentators returns, along with more unintended pub names from sport commentary and suggestions for the Great Glossary of Football Commentary. Messages, questions and voicenotes welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369 & emails to [e-mail]01:15 What is ‘off-tube’ reporting? 09:40 Liverpool fans to protest about ticket prices, 18:30 Other 5 Live commentaries this weekend, 21:25 Conor’s Thursday match up in the air… 22:30 Grand National chat with John Hunt, 39:10 Unintended pub names, 42:00 Clash of the Commentators, 47:15 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Brentford v Everton, Sat 1500 Burnley v Brighton & Hove on Sports Extra 2, Sat 1730 Liverpool v Fulham, Sun 1400 Sunderland v Spurs, Sun 1400 Forest v Aston Villa on Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Palace v Newcastle on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1630 Chelsea v Man City.Great Glossary of Football Commentary: DIVISION ONE Agricultural challenge, Back of the net, Back to square one, Backside and elbows, Booked, Bosman, Bullet header, Channel of joy, Coupon buster, Cruyff Turn, Cultured/educated left foot, Dead-ball specialist, Draught excluder, Elastico/flip-flap, False nine, Fox in the box, Giving the goalkeeper the eyes, Grub hunter, Head tennis, Hibs it, In a good moment, In behind, Magic of the FA Cup, The Maradona, Off their line, Olimpico, Onion bag, Panenka, Park the bus, Perfect hat-trick, Put his cap on it, Rabona, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Schmeichel-style, Scorpion kick, Spursy, Stick it in the mixer, Sweeper keeper, Target man, Tiki-taka, Towering header, Trivela, Where the kookaburra sleeps, Where the owl sleeps, Where the spiders sleep.DIVISION TWO 2-0 can be a dangerous score, Asterisk, Back on the grass, Ball stays hit, Beaten all ends up, Blaze over the bar, Business end, Came down with snow on it, Catching practice, Camped in the opposition half, Cauldron atmosphere Coat is on a shoogly peg, Come back to haunt them, Corridor of uncertainty, Couldn’t sort their feet out, Easy tap-in, Daisy-cutter, Drubbing, First cab off the rank, Giant-killing, Goalkeepers’ Union, Good leave, Good touch for a big man, Half-turn, Has that in his locker, High wide and not very handsome, Hospital pass, Howler, In the dugout, In the hat, In their pocket, Johnny on the spot, Lackadaisical, Leading the line, Leather a shot, Middle of the park, Needed no second invitation, Nice headache to have, No-look pass, Nutmeg, On the beach, On their bike, One for the cameras, One for the purists, Piledriver, Played us off the park, Points to the spot, Prawn sandwich brigade, Purple patch, Put their laces through it, Queensbury rules, Reaches for their pocket, Rolls Royce, Root and branch review, Row Z, Screamer, Seats on the plane, Sent into raptures, Show across the bows, Slide-rule pass, Staving off relegation, Steal a march, Sting the palms, Straight in the bread basket, Stramash, Taking one for the team, Telegraphed that pass, Tired legs, That’s great… (football), Thunderous strike, Turns on a sixpence, Walk it in, We’ve got a cup tie on our hands.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Welcome to the interface, the show that decodes the tech that's rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, we'll look at the way that algorithms could change how much you're paying for your groceries, how even astronauts have issues with Microsoft Outlook, and whether the next trend in tech is less tech. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. on the Football Daily with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis.

Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm Ian Dennis and this is the commentators view where we five live commentators discuss the football, the language of football commentary and our travels around the world, talking of which Ali Bruce Ball is at the Masters doing the golf,

he's walking the course, whilst John Murray is away, slightly less glamorous on a BBC course. And I'm sure he'll explain more when he's next back with us, but fear not, because Connor McNamara is here. Hello, Connor. Hello, Ian. Very good to see you.

And you. And a TCB debut for Mike Miney. Yes, hi, gents. He was already complained about the early start. Yes, this is not my territory. Who knew little people behind the scenes? What is it now? A-Tem.

Who knew there were two eight o'clock in the day? I did not care. Yeah. Welcome to my world. It's great to be young, Denno, isn't it? Mike's one of these where he can stay. to like just sleep till lunchtime if the arm didn't go off. I'm very jealous.

Absolutely. Yeah. So it's been a busy week. I was at Paris Saint-Germain when they beat Liverpool by two goals to nil. And Mike, you were watching Barcelona, Atlatico, off tube. Basically, watching the game from a studio this time in Solford, which is quite useful, given that I'll be covering some World Cup games for Five Live from the same studio. So nice little insight into what my summer looks like.

but basically for cost saving reasons, for travel reasons, sometimes it is a little easier to do reports, particularly of non-English sides, perhaps, that we are following or keeping across from a studio. So a really smart setup, but I had one big TV in front of me, four little TVs in front of that, all showing the match footage, same lit mic, same headset setup that we'd have at a ground feed of you

doing the PSG Liverpool game in my ear as well as the effects from the Barcelona Athletico game which was an interesting game but I don't know if you've you gent seen that the fallout from the aftermath of this game and Hansi Flick's comments and the now legal complaint

that Barcelona have put into UEFA about a possible handball non-penalty not checked by VAR so in the game Athletico's goalkeeper places the ball down for a goal kick just knocks it to the defender and the defender puts his hand on the ball

almost, you know, in one of these daft situations where the defender takes the goal kick, I never really understand the benefit of that. But the defender takes the goal kit, and he thought Pueholt was taking the gold kick, so he puts his hand on the ball. Barcelona field, the goalkeeper had actually started play, and therefore handball in the penalty area,

penalty kick, given a Barcelona. Hansi Flick was quit a pick-up on it, his post-match comments, and Barcelona did a statement yesterday saying that they've made a legal complaint to you away about it. So all very dramatic but, sorry, the night was Barcelona weren't good enough to finish their chances anyway. And actually, what

I find odd about that statement in the situation is it wasn't a handball in open play that prevented a Barcelona goal. I think it's one of those situations where they're trying to make something out of nothing. Yeah, I think certainly from the game I was watching, I think Liverpool got away lightly with just a

two-nall-defeat. Conor, where do we find you? I've had a nice few days. actually, I know I'm in Portugal, but I'm flying back today, and I'm looking forward to being at Anfield tomorrow with Five Live. I'm doing Liverpool against Fulham. I've a busy weekend, actually, making up for the fact of it a quiet week. So I'm doing Chelsea Man City on Sunday for Telly,

and I'm doing Man United Leeds for match of the day on Monday night. So I've got a triple header to get me back into the real world, but looking forward to them all of that. I think Anfield will be interesting tomorrow with everything that's going on there. Did you take in the football in Lisbon? No, no. I've had a complete football-free. few weeks. I was in a restaurant and there was

games in the telly and I purposely turned my back to them to say, I'm taking a few days off watching the games. I'm going to concentrate on the Vino Verde. But no, it's it's, I saw that the forest obviously were playing Portugal last night as well. So there's

been plenty connection in terms of Portugal and football this week. But yeah, back in, do you know what's actually, I was just looking at my diary, we're kind of running out of Premier League games now. It's mad how the season is you know, I always feel like, oh, you're midway through the season and then suddenly you've got like six games to go. I was like, whoa, how do that happen?

So it seems to be heading towards a full-time whistle, you know, quite dramatically quickly at the moment. The one thing I was going to say actually, guys, is Mike, when you're talking about the off-tube stuff, I always remember, Delo, like, during COVID, that was the time when we all had to do a bit more off-tube than maybe we would have wanted to. And, you know, the preference will always be to be at a game. I remember things were, you know, particularly for the foreign European games because of travel restrictions and whatnot. And an awful lot of commentaries were done.

I think it's interesting this week with the Masters being on, and just to sort of give the kind of behind-the-scenes stuff when you're a commentator, I mean, almost none, almost none of the television commentary at something like the Masters is done in-person standing on the fairway watching. The radio commentary is. But the television, because they skip from one game to another so quickly,

the commentators couldn't physically get to the other greens. So even though they're there in Augusta, they're at the Masters, they're sitting in effectively a portal cabin, watching these TV screens and doing what we would call off-tube commentary, even though they're on site, which I've always sort of found an interesting one. And the other sort of recollection I have about off-tube commentaries and golf was, during COVID, we did the US Open on Five Live, and I was commentating from home in Dublin,

and Sarah Mulcourns was commentating from her home. And I think Ian, was Ian Carter there? No, I think Ian Carter was at home as well. I think we're all just in three different homes because it was the height of COVID. it and we were commentating on it. But all of our reception, all our feeds were slightly different times. So when Rory McElroy would hit a putt, and I'm commenting on it, Ian has already seen that put go in or miss or whatever,

and he's already onto the next guy. But by the time I'm talking about it and seeing the ball goes in, then when it comes to him, his player had already taken the putt and he didn't have time to set it up and stuff. And we're this hilarious sort of, you know, because we're doing it over the whole week, we got into a rhythm, where I would sort of go on McElroy sends it on its way, and then Ian would go, and it's in, and we move on to John Ram or whatever.

And just, you know, you would never create that scenario as a commentator. But I think it's a great, great example of how you adapt. You just make a bad situation work. And just on that as well, in terms of being in two separate places, in local radio, particularly in my time at BBC Radio, managed to save costs, we used to only send one to a ground, and your summariser would be back in the studio in Solford, watching it off a feed. which which is a challenge in itself but what is also is that delay system so they're watching a game that is 10 seconds behind what I can see in live action and and little things like corners or free kicks you may just want your co-commentated to come in and give a line but if that corner's taken quickly you're already looking at the action in the penalty they're analyzing how the corner happen you've got to jump in that creates an interesting challenge but um it's nothing nothing can ever be being at the ground at the ground at the

at the venue, whatever it is. We all know that. I've always said it off, Jimmy. People will know this when they're driving their car on a frosty morning, and you come out and you might have to sort of wipe a little bit of the glass and you're trying to look through and you're waiting for the heater to sort of melt the frost on the window. And if you had to imagine having to drive it that way, you could just see this almost like letterbox sort of view of the road.

I mean, yes, in theory you could do it, but, I mean, it would be dangerous. You would have to go extremely slowly. you could take no risks, you know, you had two miles an hour stuff. That's what it's like being a commentator. If you're commentating off tube, you can't be as sharp as you want to be. And you've got to, you know, you'll often know watching a game if a commentator's off tube that the, oh, it's a goal, but they won't commit to who scored it for a few. You know, they're going to wait to see the close-up shot.

Have they definitely got it right? Whereas when you're in the stadium, I always say if a corner kick has been taken, I'm not looking at the ball in the corner. I'm looking at who's at the back post, who's on the penalty spot, who's where. So when the ball then comes in, you already have an idea who's in those kind of areas. that's the sort of thing you can't do when you're when you're just watching on screen. And simple things like the managers as well, isn't? You only get the cuts of the managers or the bench or the fans when the TV cuts to it.

Everything else is obviously naturally is ball by ball play. And you can only see what a manager's reaction is to a goal in a replay after a goal. Or, you know, if Marino is sprinting down the touchline or whatever, you only see that afterwards and not during the moment itself. So there are challenges. I find the biggest challenge I have in that is feeling like you're in a stadium and that effect.

You can't quite beat that feeling. I think John mentioned it on the TCV not so long ago in that it feels different off-tube. It's weird to say, even with the effects pumping in your ears, it just feels different. I agree with you, Mike. There's no substitute for actually being there.

Our five live commentaries coming up this weekend. So because of the Grand National, and we'll be hearing from John Hunt, who's backed by popular demand. Brentford Everton, throughout the whole game, will be on Sports Extra for our 3 o'clock goal service. Burnley Brighton will be on Sports Extra 2. Stephen Warnock is joining Connor for Liverpool Fullen.

The atmosphere for that one, Connor as well, will be interesting because there's going to be fan protests about the ticket prices. So at the minute, there's a lot of unease around Liverpool Football Club. Arna slots under pressure. the Liverpool players were critical of each other after last week's game at Manchester City beaten again in midweek

so that's what three successive defeats now and when you think that the fans are going to raise the pressure against the board the hierarchy for the ticket prices the increase in ticket prices it's not going to be conducive to a harmonious atmosphere no it sort of feels like it's coming at them from from all angles and I think

I think for a club like Liverpool the success they had last year anything less. I mean, I think even if they were second in the table and a few points off, I think even that they'd have been disappointed because it was so good last year. But then you add into the mix the ticket prices, which has been, and we all know this, a long-running thing at Anfield, you know, over the years when various regimes and owners and boards have tried to make differences to tickets, and let's face it, you know, I think they've obviously made great improvements to the stadium in recent years in terms of capacity and that there's work continuing all the time at Anfield, but there is still an enormous demand.

That is a club that can easily sell out that stadium for absolutely every game and beyond. And from a business point of view, they're thinking, well, you know, we need to, if we raise these tickets, people will pay for it, we will still get the more money. And then, you know, this time last year, people were talking about give Mo Sal a new contract and pay him whatever, just make sure that he gets to stay. Unfortunately, this is the problem of where does the money come from and how it has to be, you know, to pay out these wages, you've got to take in income. But in the context of a team that has been disappointing in terms of their performance across a lot of levels.

And the thing that always makes me sort of smile in almost a perverse way is that if you to say this time last season, remember, they won the league in April last year, this time last year, if you had said to Liverpool fan, oh yeah, in 12 months' time, this place will be disgruntly, you know, there'll be protest, people will be unhappy. Salah would have stayed, but everyone's going to be really unhappy. You know, people wouldn't believe it. it's amazing how quickly things turn. And I always think this time of year, April, May, when teams get promoted up to the Premier League,

you see these scenes of delight and pitch invasions and managers hoisted up onto people's shoulders, and it's the great new dawn. We're going to the Premier League. And invariably, look at the teams who come up, so many of them end up parting ways with their coach within 12 months then. So the success has got to be enjoyed in football

because it doesn't linger very long. and if it can happen to Liverpool, a club of that size and that success and who've been so dominant and even still got to latter stages of cup competitions and stuff. But because they don't go all the way, the fans just then things like ticket prices will really irk the fans. And I think we're going to see and hear that on Five Live on Saturday. I also think as well, I don't know what you think, Mike, but we've got to be very, very careful that, and this isn't just at Liverpool, but there are a lot of Premier League clubs that are going down the road of trying to

tap in to the tourist fan, those that just come over for the weekend. From a commercial point of view, I can see the value of it, but I think from a football point of view, where football matters most, and that comes from the soul, that I think it's really worrying, because you can't ignore your loyal match-going fan. You can't show them the sort of like disdain that some owners are looking to try and do, and it has a knock-on effect as well with the atmospheres. the atmospheres are not as good as they used to be

because you're now getting supporters who are just coming in for the experience and don't ignore your loyal hardworking, hard-paying, match-going supporter. There's followed that club with devotion year after year, season after season, through the good times and the bad times,

they've been there no matter what. And I think we can't ignore the supporters and that's why when they had the campaign about 20's plenty. I'm fully behind the supporters initiatives to try and say no, we're the ones that matter. You know, not the ones who are

flying in from abroad for a weekend away with a group of supporters. It's the supporters then who will pay the hard money, who'll follow their team home and away, come what may. Well, I mean, we've seen it with the World Cup, haven't we? And the ludicrous ticket prices that are going around there that are pricing

fans out. Both Manchester clubs, I say that because I used to work with BBC Radio, managed to closely. We had fans repeatedly get in touch with us when, for example,

and I'm doing Burnley, Brighton this weekend. Bright have done the same, haven't they, at the Amex, invented this tunnel club feature where you're removing the seats in and around

the dugouts and the tunnels and giving high-priced tickets away to watch the players walk out, the tunnel or whatever. But what you're getting there is the loyal core fan base who have their season tickets

each year or, year in certain stands are being get an email one day out of the blue saying that season ticket you've had no that's moving now and and within that you see fans with uh you know they have it's a community isn't it you've got your reg you go to a game if you're a season ticket holder you will have people around you that you know that you will only see once a week that you only catch up with once a week and there's been some really powerful mental health awareness campaigns based in and around the same fact of talking to these people next to you and if you're removed all of a sudden, you lose that connection.

There's the, where Manchester City left the left main road. They lost the Kippakstan, which created atmosphere, and they moved people all around. And that had an impact as well. I know of a Premier League club, won't name them, that basically were more focused on their global attitude than their local attitude and said,

we've got the local fan base, we know they'll be there. We're more interested in bringing an income from abroad now and how do we go about that. So football's got to be careful. Is it 30 quid? Have been announced no more than 30 quid for the Euro 2028, which is great. And much contrast to the World Cup.

But yeah, you're right. You've got to be so careful with these clubs because you cannot lose that loyal, hardcore, vocal, passionate fan base. I agree, Michael. I think it's even more than that. It's not even so much that they feel we have the local fan. What it is is they feel that the tourist fan, we'll call them. Because it's a big day and it's a big moment, they will go to

the club shop, they will buy several things for themselves, souvenirs, presents for other people. That's meant, where's the local fan, you know, let's just say a mom or a dad with their kid who go to the game that they've been to Regley, they might go to their cafe around the corner because it's a better value than the

concession stands in the stadium. They might not buy the program because they go every week. You know, they'll buy one shirt at the start of the season and that does them for the campaign as it should. But I think from the business point of view, there is a disgruntled about now, and I think it's not even a sentimentality of,

which it obviously is, but it's not just this about, about where it all came from in the community that the clubs originally spawned from. But for me, it is affecting the atmosphere now. I notice it in games.

When things happen in matches, you know, a significant, a yellow card early in a match for a central defender, you think, oh, he's going to be in trouble now. In the old days,

there would be a little mood shift around the whole city, and people realize it. Now, so many people are just on their phones, taking itself, I'm here, I'm at the event. It's like going to a pop,

I mean, at the risk of sounding a very old, funny-duddy, I think should be this sort of Bob Dylan concert thing where people should leave their phones in a locker going into a football stadium because watch the games. You can check your phone out when you get home. But so many people at me, you really do see it. They're coming. It's a little bit of this influencer culture and you'll see people have four or five tickets between them, but one person is the influencer and everyone else is just making videos of them throughout the game. And look, I don't mind. Before a game, of course, make a deal of that you're at a stadium or you've come to a game. But when the game is, you're at a stadium or you've come to a game. But when the game is, you're a game on and you're trying to make it into your own little event or your own little stunt, that's not great. And it has definitely grown. The higher profile Premier League games now, you see an awful lot of that. And it is, it is affected the atmosphere. They've got to be careful because the reason that this foreign interest around the world that so many people are glued to the Premier League is because it's real. You know, it matters. It's not artificially constructed. And they've got to be careful to mind that balance because that's what the people around the world are tuning in to see. Just for the younger listeners.

that we may have on T-CV. Harry Stiles did the same recently, Connor as well. No phones at his gig at the year. Co-up Live. We should all be following Harry Stiles. Well, we'll see about what materialises with those protests then at Anfield, but Stephen Walnut and alongside Connor. And then on Sunday, a choice of listening.

Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa on Sports Extra. Crystal Palace, Newcastle on Sports Extra 2. Chelsea, Manchester City. John Murray will be joined by Rob Green. That's a 430 commentary. But before that, Sunderland against Tottenham at 2 o'clock, Mike, you're with Pat Nevin for Roberto Deserbe's first game in charge. Yeah, looking forward to this, Sunderland Spurs.

Spurs, actually, depending on what happens, because we're recording this on Friday morning, Spurs could start the weekend in the bottom three. And part of my task today is to try and find out when it was the last time. Tottenham started a Premier League game in the bottom three. If West Ham win, that's the situation Spurs find themselves in. Deserby didn't win any of his first five when he came to the Premier League with Brighton. He hasn't got that time with seven Premier League games to go.

His record at Marseille did start well there, did start well at Shattar Danesk as well. His first game at Brighton was that 3-3 draw with Liverpool, you may remember. what may be a positive to Spurs is at Sunderland's home form has just trailed off a little bit they are winless in their last three Premier League home games haven't lost four in a row at home since September 2017 but that they kind of tread off however given the tightness between fifth and 13th in the Premier League they are kind of still in this will they won't they could they be in the European picture and and the stadium of light has proven difficult this year so tough first game for Roberto the first after the House of Tudor fell over the international break.

Very good. Very good. I would hazard a guess that it might be one day Ramos during his reign. Yes, that's what I think. I think they started terribly. 2008, was it? Yeah. That comes to my mind, but I am just going to have a look if there's been anything since then. But yeah, one day Ramos and Spurs.

Fields from memory, Spurs have often had poor August. They started season badly. And then for a long time, this Harry Kane years, they would then actually play quite well. well through to the end of the season. If only had Spurs had had a better start. And that's why I imagine there'll probably be a few recent-ish examples of Spurs in August might have started in the bottom three.

But I kind of feel like that doesn't count. You're going to see it once the table's set down. When you start it? Because also technically, I mean, if you've had a season, let's say where West Ham Wolves and Watford haven't been in the Premier League or whatever, something might even start the Premier League in the bottom three alphabetically. I'm not having that, yeah. So when do you go on the minimum games played territory?

Well, next week we've got the lionesses against Spain in a World Cup qualifier at Wembley. Frank Kirby will be joining Vicki Sparks. Liverpool, the return leg against Paris-Sangeman, also on the Tuesday night. Arsenal Sporting on the Wednesday. And, Connor, you're down on the Thursday. Have they decided what game you're going to do on the Thursday?

No, well, I mean, and again, I suppose people listening to this podcast interesting in sort of behind the scenes and how things are decided. So going into the first leg last night, you've obviously got Porto against Nottingham Forest and then you've got your Villa playing and both of them have got the home home game next week

so what we sort of do often is we wait in particularly these European ties because let's just say Forest won by five goals to nil well then that's not as interesting as second half because the you know that the narrative has sort of already decided now of course if they end up losing it at six zero it becomes the biggest story ever and we regret not being there but in the main

you want the game that's a little bit tighter and I think they're both they're both close enough aren't they? Forrest who the one won't draw Villa who they win by three goals to one. So it could well be that the forest game might be more in the balance, but I, you know, that is far above my pay grade to be making such

weighty decisions. Ross, the boss will have a decision to make, but I'll be ready to go and I will be texting him to say, come on Ross, let me know because obviously I want to do my prep, do I need to read up on the Porto players or whatever, but I very much do what I'm told. Well, also this weekend on Five Live,

the Grand National Festival, Steve Crosman, will be presenting live from Aintree on Saturday with coverage of every race. And then the world's most famous steeplechase, the Grand National, live in full at 4 o'clock. And John Hunt, as ever, will be calling them home. John, how are you feeling? I'm feeling really good. Yeah, welcome to Liverpool. It's a great weekend.

The city's always alive. There's a great buzz about the place, as per usual. It's a sort of sporting event that the locality really embraces. And if you haven't yet tasted it. I know you've all got busy schedules, especially this time of year, especially at weekends, but it's a really unique sporting experience. As I say, lent all the more kudos by the fact that everybody seems to buy into it. I love the national.

I love Cheltenham. I go to Cheltenham every year. I take one day off in the week to go to Cheltenham every year with some mates. How does it compare, John, in terms of the four-day festival that is Cheltenham to the three-day festival that is entry? In your eyes, how do you see it in terms of atmosphere, in terms of quality of racing? I think in simplest terms, I think it's a much more relaxed event

and therefore I think people have a certain amount of freedom to express their enjoyment of the event and by that I don't mean it's party central from 10 o'clock in the morning until midnight and beyond. I just think there's an informality about injury that Cheltenham

doesn't quite have and I think that makes the angel entry event all the more enjoyable. Cheltenham always seems to me it is very important. It's the pinnacle of our sport, but it sometimes can feel too important. And here at Liverpool, you see just about the same horses, but there's just such a much more relaxed element to the whole thing. It's hugely enjoyable. I said at the very start, you were back by popular demand, because there were so many people who got in touch with us to say that they enjoyed you when you were on talking ahead of the Cheltenham Festival. With that in mind, In particular, more to the actual storytelling around the horses. Does your approach change for the national? Because, as you say, the Cheltenham Festival is the pinnacle. And there's a lot of horse racing aficionados who will be listening to you,

whereas with a national, you're going to get your grandmother, who will always back, you know, horse number seven come what may. So does your approach around the storytelling alter at all? I think it suffers in a way. It's a really, really good point. Yeah. At Cheltenham, you're dealing with like hard back. You're aware that we're always speaking to a general audience.

But at Cheltenham, they're tuning into our coverage. It's because they want to hear who's winning the Triumph hurdle. And did Nicky Henderson superstar manage to maintain his unbeaten record? But this weekend, yeah, you're right. It's the once-yearers who are potentially tuning in. Often, of course, it goes on World Service as well, not always, but often, and that added dimension as well. And I think you have to sort of soften the storytelling a little bit. You know, Rachel Blackmore, for example, when she won in 2021, it was a great story.

Rachel's now retired. She's married. She's expecting a child. But the whole point of saying all of that is that her new husband, Brian Hayes, he has a ride in the race as well this weekend. and there's a small chance that he could win aboard Spanish Harlem, who is owned by the sponsors of the Grand National Randok. So just going to try and weave in those little tails that might just capture the air, and they're a little bit softer the stories than the hard, who won, what and why. John, from a very sort of commentary, nerdy, technical aspect, how do you identify, I get it, when they're running down the home straight,

you can see the colors clearly you can say that guy has that color cap all the rest of it the track at entry is enormous and there are points in that track where the horses will be running away from you and although their colors

their shirt and their sleeves and their hat are all different colors to help you identify when they're going away from you the jockeys are all standing up in their stirrups you can kind of just see the back of their jodpers right you're seeing their sides. How do you identify who's who when they're that sort of distance away and the body

shape isn't really showing you the colours? That's another great point. I mean, sometimes a jockey can fall off his horse and it might be several seconds before you get a clear view as to who he or she is. And you're so right, Conn, sometimes these tumbles can be so quick and so dramatic that often all you're aware of is a pair of black boots flying in the air in the wrong direction. But you just have to take a deep breath, I think, and just say, look, I don't know exactly who that is right now, but in three seconds, I'll get a clear of view. We've got an amazing pair of almost like naval binoculars up in the commentary box. There's an extraordinary piece of sophisticated kit.

So you can see all the way around the track, which is sort of two miles long. with those, but you just exercise a little bit of patience. The only thing with that is, and I'm sure you'll all appreciate this, any time you're taking your eye off the action to look at something else, is a very nervous moment because what if whilst you're looking for jockey whose boots you identify, but you don't know anything more about him, all the time you're looking for that, something else might be happening in the race as well.

So there's a sort of anxiety associated with it, but you've got to control that anxiety. and ultimately, if you don't manage to identify who that one was, who fell, then look, is it the end of the world? You know, we've all got high professional standards, haven't we? And we all want to do everything right all the time. But sometimes, if you miss something, you miss something. And, you know, I used to beat myself up terribly about that.

I don't anymore. I get asked, I'm sure. Connor and Ian get asked as well, how do you remember 22 people? How do you remember 22 names? Now, if you're doing Premier League football week in week out, you just overtime, like with watching any team, you learn players and numbers. I'm a numbers guy. I learn players by their number.

I can memorize a number better. For example, I'll have my team sheet written out. Yeah, I remember my team sheet, have it written out numerically, one to whatever number, 99. Connor, you're a formations guy, aren't you? I've seen your match notes. You put them on a piece of paper in the formation they are in that. Mentally, I can't compute that during a game, so I have it all written out. So, John, what's your style? What's your prep? Like today, you've obviously got to race, but you've got to worry about tomorrow. How on earth do you go about, particularly with the National, 34 runners, riders, different colour horses, different coloured silks, I appreciate and different coloured numbers that they were on the horse as well. How does that all work for you?

I think preparation is similar insofar as this potential line up for the Grand National has been common knowledge for a few weeks now, give or take a few horses that drop by the wayside, one or two editions come in. So, you know, in terms of prep, you can start that a couple of weeks in advance quite comfortably. And, you know, I suppose it's familiarity. You know, if you wanted to, I am maximus, you could look at all of his runs, three runs this year. You could look back at his grand national win from two years ago,

and you could do all that pretty comfortably with the right websites, etc., within 10 minutes. And there you get a pretty good idea of sort of his running style. and the colours. So I think it's the prep not a last minute thing, that's the thing. It's something you build up

over a period of time. You guys will be, no doubt, involved in cup finals and playoff finals this spring. And, you know, I'm absolutely sure your prep for those big events does not start the night before.

And it's exactly the same with horse racing and the Grand National. That's a good point, John. I recently did a social media video about how commentators prepare and I showed us,

as Mike said, myself away, do the formations. And in the comments and the replies, someone said, oh, you could do that on AI. You could get AI to update all your stats for you. And exactly what John said is,

no, no, like, it's the doing of the prep. That's what's the study. That's what puts it in your head. It's not sort of so much what you read in the day. It's the physical act that you had to go and look it up

and write it down. And then as you're doing it, you're associating that player with these details. I think that very much resonates what you're saying there, John. And one of the thing about identification, The famous rugby commentator Bill McLaren, he had a brilliant technique

where he had a pack of playing cards and say it was England against Wales on the back of the card he would write a white number one, a white number two, a white number three and on another one, he would go a red number one, a red number two, a red number three and on the flip side of the card he would write the player's names. So then he would shuffle the deck

and he would just pop down red seven and then he'd say the name of whoever number seven for Wales is and he'd shove it again and go white 14 and he'd say the name of whoever was number 14 for England. But by doing that, his brain was just totally up. So during the game, if England number six makes a run forward, he instantly has who the player was. And I always thought that was a brilliant technique.

Great idea. England number six, Jack of Clubs. Yeah, exactly. Joker. You know, just to give you an insight into the national this year in particular, owner J.P. McManus had six runners in the race. His racing colours are green and yellow hoops, which are iconic colors. They stand out beautifully on any day, whether it's a sunny day or a miserable rainy day.

They're great racing colours. But every horse, every jockey, to distinguish the runners, has to have a different cap. And that's where I have my little struggles year on year when you have an owner like that with multiple entries, realizing which horse has got which cap. And I just, I have to do that mentally. I can't rely on the paper necessarily because, say, the paper blows away, etc. It doesn't happen ever like that. But just say that happens.

So Johnny Who, for example, is in the Grand National. Now, Johnny, that's my name, obviously, John, Johnny Who, I find an easy horse to remember. And it just so happens that my favorite color is blue. And Johnny Who this year, by complete coincidence, has a blue cap on. So I'm really cool with Johnny. I'm not going to get him mixed up. with any of the other McManus runners. Another one of them, I.a Maximus, is the number one hope for that owner, and he will wear

the white cap. And I always think of Ia Maximus, the number one hope from the McManus horses always wears a white cap. So there you go. There's six runners for McManus. I've got two of them in my head straight away. Well, I've already backed Johnny Who, so I hope that Johnny Who is, I hear Johnny Hunt calling Johnny Who home.

I'll be on sports extra that on my way home, I listen back to the race in its entirety through BBC sounds. So how are you feeling about your Bill of West Ham? And before you go, I need to get a tip off you as well. That would be remiss of me. I suppose the tip is easy. Panic attack's going to be my fancy. But I like an outsider called Keed de Bourbon as well.

It's about 33 for Willie Mullins. And I think that horse has been underestimated. The much more complex question about West Ham United. Well, I was really upbeat, but I went to Villa Park. away and they were really poor. And then the Leeds Cup tie, that first half was an absolute stinker as well. And we nearly pulled off a nice comeback, didn't we? So massive game this weekend, obviously, against Wolverhampton, Honduras. I don't know. I was really confident until the Villa and Leeds games, and I'm less so now. But if you ask, if you ask Leeds fans, if you ask Forrest fans, if you

ask Spurs fans in particular, how nervous they are. They're just the same, aren't they? So it's tight and it's amazing fun, isn't it? Great drama. Well, appreciate you joining us, John, and go well at Aintree. Thank you, guys. That was John Hunt. And more from John on the Let's Go Racing John Hunt, episode of the commentator's view on the Football Daily Feed

from early March. You'll be able to find that. Five light sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Shagrelby done. Ouch. Lives on BBC sounds.

Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Yeah, ball by ball. coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball, cricket, and it's the huge one. Cricket on five-life sport. Oh, blibing every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Welcome to the Interface, the show that decodes the tech that's rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, we'll look at the way that algorithms could change how much you're paying for your groceries, how even astronauts. have issues with Microsoft Outlook and whether the next trend in tech is less tech. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Commentators view on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC sounds. TCV at BBC.co.com. UK, the WhatsApp, the voice notes to 08,000, 289, 369.

And Paul in Sydney has sent us this. Hi there, TCV team. Your discussions about word clashes. check penalty penalty check reminded me about some work clashes here in the national rugby league back in 2014 i think the south sydney rabbitos the bunnies regularly lined up with both winger lottie to keary and halfback luke keary more than once i recall the abc radio commentators having to say Kiri to Tikiri and occasionally to Kiri to Kiri. Quite a mouthful. Thanks. I can imagine it was quite a mouthful. But those things, I'm sure you guys find it gets in your head sometimes, doesn't it? And particularly when you're, okay, those guys are kind of similar. So don't get them wrong.

But because you're thinking of it so much when one guy has the ball, you're thinking of the other guy. So it definitely can play tricks at your times. We've had talking about ticket prices earlier. This is from Jamie. Hi TCV as a regular listener and long-suffering Gillingham supporter, I couldn't help but notice something John said in a recent episode which resonated with me. When discussing his occasional visits to support his local team, John mentioned the ticket prices of some League 2 games and how he felt they were often overpriced. I must say I agree with John on this.

So when on the beach, Jill's released tickets of our upcoming away game at Solford City on Saturday, I was rather taken aback to see that they're being. sold for £1.40 with Solford celebrating the city's 100th anniversary. They're £1.40 because back in 1996, that was the equivalent cost of a ticket. I think Solford should be commended for this initiative, especially during times of such economic hardship. Unfortunately, I myself won't be able to get to Sulford as I'm down in Brighton that weekend, aiming to complete my first marathon. No doubt after finishing the marathon, I will quite literally be on the beach. And in fact, that's a Salford-Gillingham game, not surprisingly, is a sellout.

It's interesting, Jamie. Jamie makes great valid points there, but had to get the mention in about doing the marathon. There's an old expression about how do you know someone went to Harvard? And the answer is, they tell you. It's like, how do you know someone's running a marathon? They tell you. Yeah, best of look, surely on the beach can stick itself in the glossary as well. on it. It's about this time of year we talk about teams being on the beach.

Good show. Very good point. But also on that ticket price thing, well done Solford, because this is a clever opportunity, isn't it? You get new fans in, you have a good game. Maybe you get one or two back through the gate that might be, you know, thinking on this Manchester United is too much to go and watch down. Manchester City had too much to go and watch, you know, and maybe if they're in this way of trying to find a new club, I know you don't really change allegiance to your club when you've, when you've picked your team as a kid but maybe there is an opportunity for some football league clubs to look at this if it goes well for solford you know those those that struggling for attendance is want a few more through the gates

price you know going into economics it's demand versus supply and price elasticity and stuff but it may work it may work for solford who don't have the biggest attendance in in the football league and if they can entice a couple of others fair play right a couple of unintended pub names from sport commentary before we move on last time we had the hardworking williams and the cannon inn Tim in Nottingham has a pub name from the recent Fulham versus Burnley game. 60 seconds remaining of this first half, Walker lifts it downfield. A leaping bassie will head it out of play for a throw on this near side the right. Burnley are in no real hurry.

Tim says, I imagine the leaping bassie to be a glitzy neon place in the heart of Cardiff City Centre. The highlight and main attraction being the twice-weekly Basi-Oki night when you'll see a steady queue of folks waiting for their moment to bring. out the greatest hits of the local icon Shirley Bassie and other Welsh singing greats such as Tom and Allad Jones. You'll hear numerous renditions, all of dubious quality of classics such as Goldfinger, Diamonds Are Forever, Delilah walking in the air, culminating in Ian's favourite Big Spender. If you're going to go Bassi, you've got to go big. You know what I mean? You can't just do some sort of, you got to go, you know, Goldfinger or something.

something, do you? You've got to go right in there, yeah. The other pub name that we've had sent in is Kevin in Wichstable, who, I think this is from the other night, PSGV Liverpool. I was listening, obviously doing the Barser game, but listening to you and Paul Robinson, Denno, doing the commentary, but being distracted at the same time, which has inadvertently given its name to a, now a new pub, I think. So Voslai launches the ball into the penalty area. Saffinoff has come a long way, and he gathers it in, with both hands as it turns out that the person who mock me for that large fly mine was bigger is quite jumping as well you've all jumped as high as saffin off did that was uh yes

i mean it's still there as well the horrible little creature look there it is what will you do with that the horrible little fly for me that could be a tired old pub with rickety tables and chairs that's frequented by those small nippy fly-like forwards that tall centrebacks hate playing against that run them in circles and do so in a very fly-like menacing manner. Think Janino and of course Jean Franco Zola. And sorry John when it comes to the clash of the commentators, I'm on team Denno for that one. Thanks all. Kevin. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, a voice of reason at long last. I was just about to actually dismiss your horrible little fly thing. I'd never ever drinking there. But I tell you what, Kevin, after that parting shot,

it'll be happy hour all night for me and you in the horrible little fly. He knew his audience there. He knew who he was talking to. Talking of which Brian in Austin in Texas has got in touch. I'm missing the popular Clash the Commentator's segment. I wonder if this has got anything to do with the recent injustice against John.

Maybe he's refusing to participate as a result, putting the entire segment in jeopardy. Well, I lost your middle part of your point there, in Austin because I'm already sided with Kevin, but no, it is back. Because we're not going to comment on whether John is refusing to take part. He's not here. But we'll have a game anyway. And this is where the two of us take it in turns to answer a question and give as many

correct answers as we can in 30 seconds. So I think the title's done and dusted. Kevin would agree to that in Wittstable. But we've got an exhibition match. So it's Connor against Mike. So who wants to go first? I'm dread. This is the one part of this podcast. I'm absolutely dreading.

Connor, you can go first if you want. You go first, mate. Connor, we're ready to go. Roberto de Zerbe has his first match in charge of Tottenham this weekend away to Sunderland. It's a two o'clock commentary on Five Live. I want you to name any club he has managed or any manager he has succeeded.

So any Roberto de Zerby club that is managed or a manager that he's come after. And your time starts now. Okay, we're close that he's managed. Marseille, Brighton. Was he Roma? I think he was Roma. Obviously Tottenham. Does that count?

He hasn't had a match yet. So that's that. Then who's he taken over? Did he take over from Potter at Brighton? Did he take over from... Oh, did he take over from... Um, who's it at Marseille? Oh, it's so annoying.

Uh, no, I'm struggling. We'll see whether that is good enough. Give Mike a wave. Hello? You're back. I'm back. Mike, on your TCV debut, you're now making your first appearance in Clash of the commentators.

So you know, you know, Paddy Kielty does beat the commentator on Saturday mornings on Five Live. Yeah. My first two appearances on that were 3-0 defeats, so... I haven't got high hopes. So you're actually doing the game for Roberto Deserby's first match in charge of Tottenham. This is going to make even worse, isn't it? I want you to name any club he has managed and or any manager he has succeeded.

So any club Roberto Deserby has managed or any manager he's come after, and your time starts now. Sassuolo, Shachtardiniet. Brighton, Marseille, Igor Tudor. Who did he succeed at Brighton? Graham Potter? Where else has he been? He's had an Italian team. He had an Italian 40 side that began with a letter B,

but I can't remember their name. Yeah, that'll do. That'll do. I think you've rinsed that. I think you've won there. What's funny, though, what made me laugh is that, and we've mentioned this before, actually, you might have even been on, Connor.

The current manager of Marseille is? Oh, yes, Habi Bay. That's when you told your happy day's story. Exactly, yeah. But I haven't said Igor Tudor. That's unbelievable. There you go. Tap it in.

Wow. You did. No, I didn't say Greg Schuter. Oh, you said Potter. Yeah. You said Potter. So, it's a winning start for Mike Miney, 6-4. Very impressive, Mike.

I'm never coming back on this podcast again. I'm taking that win and retiring. I think it's just, isn't it, that's the insight, again, to anyone who's wanting to be a commentary. You've got to try and find the little story. So knowing the situation that Spurs were in, one of the things that I wanted to do was see how Deserbe You had started at every. every single club he'd ever managed. And actually, I think for the first four of five, he didn't win any of his first four,

his first games in charge. Then at Brighton, he got the draw against Liverpool. He did well at Shaktar. Marseille's off to a cracking start and it fell apart for him at the end. But it's just those little things that you pick a choice. So what you're saying, like, is that you've spent the week studying the question that you've just asked. This is a bigger scandal than the John Murray clash of the commentator's point. But I've, I've had more time on my hands than you, Connor.

So I can say that I've just been geeking out all week really. Yeah, he never managed Roma, but the club you were thinking of, Mike, was Benevento. That's it, yeah. Yeah, he had a couple in Italy to begin with. And not that John never listens back to any episode, whether he's in it or not, but the leaderboard still has me at the top 10 from 14.

Right now for our great gloss-we. of football commentary as we add commentary terms and phrases to our collection. You can find the entire glossary in the episode description. So when you're listening to this episode of the podcast, just go down through the text that's

on the screen and you'll see the entire glossary down there. Division 1 is for football exclusive terms. Division 2 is for terms used in football commentary, but that you will also hear in other sports. Previously, we added Pile Driver into Division

1 as a football exclusive term. However, Steve in Barry St. Edmund says, well, I don't have a dog to walk, but I frequently listened during my long Sunday runs. I almost tripped over my feet when you added Pile Driver to Division 1. Clearly, none of you were wrestling fans in your youth. On that, Nick in Bryant's bottom in Buckinghamshire, the Pile Driver is a deadly move in professional wrestling,

so I feel this should relegate it to Divisdivis. Division 2, which is of course the non-exclusive football terms. Leon Wolverhampton, I'm afraid that like Spurs, the glossary entry for Pile Driver, which was Andrew Murray's suggestion, I must add, may have to be relegated. Unfortunately for me, in the late 80s, early 90s, my school friends would often try the Pile Driver on me, much to my annoyance as it involved holding me upside down and trying to drop me on my head. Phil from Seattle says Unfortunately, Pile Driver

needs to suffer the same fate as my team Port Vale in heading to Division 2. All of my age will have watched wrestling every Saturday afternoon where the likes of the famous Mick Mac Manus would drive his opponent

onto the canvas. Scott in Wigan, no need for Cass to review unlike John's class of the commentators by the sounds of it. Pile Driver is massive in wrestling namely Jerry the King, Lawler and the Undertaker's

face. famous move. We've also had a picture sent in of it. And if that's what was being tried on, who was it? It was Liam Wolverhampton. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that was wise. Mike, as a professional commentator, would you like to describe the image you're looking at? I was worried describing the jockey's jodpers earlier on, so best to look with this. This is two men, one almost, well, he's jumping to the floor, isn't he, but in a seated position, hugging the chest area of an upside down man who is effectively being drilled to the floor,

pile driven to the floor, head first. And yeah, the more I look at that picture, the more I'm glad I'm not Liam Wolverhampton. Well, the thing is when Phil from Seattle said that every Saturday afternoon he'd watched the wrestling, I was more of a grandstand man. I never watched World of Sport. I ditch Dickie Davis.

So I'd never actually heard of pile driver because I'm not a wrestling fan but clearly there are many of you who are so therefore pile driver is relegated and another fill in Singapore high commentators a favourite of mine is they'll need snookers now applied to a team who mathematically

cannot get out of the relegation zone another division two perhaps because the term is used in snooker but that's similar to what you said Mike earlier about on the beach these are the terms that come sort of of like, and can only be used sort of like early April onwards. Yeah.

The rugby union commentators, Connor would say, like, for example, sailor on the beach towards the end of a season. I can't really say. Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, I'd almost think if Rory McElroy was 12 shots clear in the Masters on Sunday, could he be on the beach, you know, just enjoying the closing stages of it. I've got a bit of an issue with the snookers, though. So they need snookers now.

So in the game, where that comes from is, that is that is that by, by just potting the balls available, it's not enough to win. You need your opponent to foul. But if you're mathematically can't get out of the relegation zone, doesn't matter if other people drop points. You're down to sort of they'd need a points deduction for a financial irregularity or something. But it doesn't quite work for me that idea.

You're either mathematically safe or not. You can't be saved by snookers in football. Maybe we need a word with our colleagues at Radio Sheffield to see if they've used it with Sheffield Wednesday this season. Sheffield Wednesday need snookers now, maybe Lester provided that briefly for them. But yeah, I was thinking the same thing. To need snookers is to need financial points deductions, isn't it? Or whatever.

Which tends to not happen in the immediate. That's something that would affect next season or whatever. But yeah, for me, it just doesn't quite work. Yeah. We've had a voice note in from Reese in London. What I would like to add is sent into raptures. Now you can just imagine that last minute winner going in for a team and their fans losing all sense of control of their body in mind

as the pure elation fills them up as the three points have been secured. Now, I do think it can be used in other sports fandoms to describe the crowds going absolutely crazy. However, I think there's a nature to football fans that probably isn't reflected in other sports fans. Don't get me wrong, when Johnny Wilkinson scored that drop kick

and won England Rugby World Cup, Obviously, the fans in the stadium were experienced some form of pure relation, but were they sent into raptures to the same degree as a 90th minute winner in football? I'll let you guys decide. Middlesbrough fan Anthony in Sydney also says, Hi, Jen. Sending the crowd into raptures is something that I've never heard outside of a football game. What are your thoughts?

I think, well, if we're going to go, the trouble is, and I'm obviously a stickler for the rules on these, if you talk about sport or you're talking about life in general I mean you know I think if you're a Taylor Swift fan and you go to a concert maybe you were sent into raptures

but you know when you played the song that you like or there's definitely religious connotations isn't there? People could be sent into raptures when they attend if they're a believer in whatever they're believing in but in terms of sport

I don't know I mean you know if Andy Murray wins Wimbledon were the crowd sent into rapture something they were waiting for so long I don't know I don't know I feel it It's a commonly enough used phrase, but that's my initial instinct anyway. What do you guys think?

I don't think it's Division I, Mike? I would agree. I've just googled the definition. To be sent into Raptures is filled with immense pleasure, excitement or ecstatic delight, which I think you do get in other walks of life, don't you? I think people who back the winner at entry in the Grand National might be feeling a bit rapturous as it's thundering home, yeah. So, in summary, Connors put a question mark over needing snookers. sent into raptures division two,

pile driver relegated to division two, on the beach division two, therefore there will be no, hooray from John Murray today. Keep the unintended pub names and glossary suggestions coming in, TCV at BBC.co.com. Or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp to 08,289-369.

A thanks to Mike and to Connor. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. and remember you can find each and every episode of the commentator's view by scrolling down your football daily feed. Congratulations on your success. I will take that. It was the perfect question. That's what's called falling in your lap.

Yes, very much so, very much so. Hello, I'm Tyler West and I'm Alfie Watts. And this is The Detour, the official companion podcast to race across the world. This is the post-episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by a resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, ma'am.

I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else exclusive content at the end of every episode. I cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race Across the World. You can watch on Eyeplayer or Listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content.

We'll see you then. Welcome to the interface, the show that decodes the tech that's rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, we'll look at the way that algorithms could change how much you're paying for your groceries, how even astronauts have issues with Microsoft Outlook,

and whether the next trend in tech is less tech. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.