Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Tip troubles & satnav struggles

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

Alistair Bruce-Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis tell the stories behind the 5 Live commentaries, from getting lost in Portugal to navigating the new Champions League table. What’s it like preparing for a big game like Liverpool vs Man City? And who will take round two in Clash of the Commentators? Plus catch the latest entries into The Great Dictionary of Football Commentary.01:00 John’s tip troubles 03:00 Ian’s Portugal problems 08:05 Liverpool-Real Madrid reflections 14:05 Getting used to the UCL table 17:30 ‘New series’ of Liverpool-Man City 23:30 Training the commentators 28:30 Clash of the Commentators 33:55 Working at Selhurst Park 38:15 The Great Dictionary of Football CommentaryBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this weekend: 15:00 Sat 30 Nov: Crystal Palace v Newcastle – Premier League 17:30 Sat 30 Nov: West Ham v Arsenal – Premier League 13:30 Sun 1 Dec: Man Utd v Everton – Premier League 13:30 Sun 1 Dec: Chelsea v Aston Villa – Premier League – 5 Sports Extra 13:30 Sun 1 Dec: Tottenham v Fulham – Premier League – BBC Sport website 16:00 Sun 1 Dec: Liverpool v Man City – Premier League

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcast The Commentator's View with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis on the Football Daily. Hello, I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and welcome to our second episode of The Commentator's View. We obviously did something right with the first one last week, so we are back. I'm alongside John Murray and Ian Dennis as we try and give you a look at what life as a five live football commentator is like. Tell some of the stories that you don't always get to hear. And we're having some fun and games along the way. We're recording this on a Thursday morning during a week of European football.

So Ian's been in Lisbon this week for sporting against Arsenal. I was listening to John at Anfield last night for Liverpool against Real Madrid. And I'm off to Tottenham tonight for Tottenham against Roma. I'll be alongside Paul Robinson for that one. But just before we get on to the European football and what we've been up to,

John, I can't leave the listeners in suspense any longer because we left it on an absolute cliffhanger last week. Did you make it to the tip? I was wondering where you were going with that. I did make it to the tip, but unfortunately, I mean, this is going to be gold, this. Unfortunately, they'd just switched to winter hours and the gates were closed.

Unbelievable drama, so I had to go back the next morning. Hang on. But personality celebrity like you, surely they would keep the gates open for one last little visit. They must know you down there, John. Not even for me. Wow. I couldn't believe it.

Yeah. And how much did you have in the back of your car to go to the tip? Was it one bag, two? Full. Full. Back seat, boot, the lot. Passenger seat. Ah.

It was full. And what was in the bags? What was in the bags? Actually, well, returning it to the matter in hand, I actually threw away a load of commentary notes this week. I know. Shock of shocks in recycling. Gone.

How far had you gone back with those commentary notes? It was from the season before last the time had come those are those are handwritten notes and i know how how beautifully you do those and how immaculate they are are they backed up anywhere i know we got into the conversation about floppy disks last week what do you what do you think well i'm guessing not they're not on the cloud anywhere you can't back up handwritten notes. Well, you probably can do anything you like these days. Get AI to do it.

Well, no, what I actually do, Ian, so I do notes kind of in a Word document, and then I sort of transcribe to handwritten notes for the actual game. So I use the handwritten process as a sort of revision process, as in I'm hoping that as I write, it's going into my head. So I've actually got both oh right okay how was lisbon how was lisbon because we we are very lucky aren't we in our

job we get to go to some wonderful cities wonderful stadiums wonderful countries tell us a little bit about the estadio jose alvalade well yeah it brought back memories of uh euro 2004 which was my first ever major tournament for bbc Live, where I was sent as the roving reporter. Did you get to see the Vasco da Gama Bridge this time? Well, funnily enough, I did happen to mention that to the taxi driver, because I know where you're going with that. You're being a little bit... Yes, you are, very much so, because you know very well that on that aforementioned trip i got lost for over two hours because oh well for a little bit of context obviously it was 20 years ago i'd never

actually driven abroad before then the car that i picked up the hire car that i was going to drive around for four weeks didn't have sat nav my phone didn't exist then well certainly didn't exist on your phone so i remember looking at the map and thinking right okay that's the trip i know where i've got to go and there's another bridge in lisbon which i think is called the april 25th bridge so first of all i went over that bridge because i'd taken a wrong turn so i had to then come back over the bridge again and then i realized that i need to be at the other side of the city. Anyway, I ended up going over the bridge

by taking a wrong turn, not once, but twice. It's over seven and a half miles long. Yes. So it took me over two hours to get from the airport to the hotel and when I was telling this story to the taxi driver in midweek,

he put his hand on his head and said, but it's only four kilometres from the airport to where I was meant to be going. And I was getting extremely frustrated. So, yes, I had problems in Portugal. Yeah, lovely view, though. Lovely view, whichever way you're driving, over the Vasco de Gama Bridge.

Well, the first time I did it, because I think it goes to Estoril, I thought I'm going to just take it. That's where the Grand Prix takes place, isn't it? Well, don't put me on that circuit. But the second time, I was just chuntering the fact that I'd made the same mistake twice. So no problems this time. If ever I'm in need of a little pick-me-up,

I watch this 10, 11 seconds that Chris Sutton sent me of Ian driving Chris Sutton sent me of Ian driving Chris Sutton and Chris Waddle the wrong way down a one-way street that gets so incredibly narrow in Portugal, Denno, that you get stuck and you have to bang the car into reverse and you couldn't have two worse people

in a car alongside you not to help you with that situation. And honestly, every time I watch that, and I'm sorry our listeners will never get to see this, it's tears of laughter from me. It really is, because you've got a panic on there. Was it Steve Bridges, our engineer? Yeah.

So I was driving back from Guimaraes to Porto five years ago after the Nations League, I think it was a semi-final. It wasn't a one-way street. We just took what we thought was a quick shortcut i think it might have been a sat-nav issue again was it well this time the sat-nav was working and the sat-nav had said to us that we could get through this road so we were driving through it but i thought my eyes were deceiving me i thought this this this lane is narrowing it's like alice in wonderland wasn't it yeah it was but Steve Bridges was there you can get

through that you can get through that anyway because it was night it was dark I'm thinking I'm not too sure anyway I eventually got all the way through and then I thought I can't you know but at that point I was almost wedged in but the trouble was it because you're driving on the the left hand side I couldn't reverse because my angles, looking over my right shoulder, it was throwing me a little bit. I had Chris Waddle in the back going, I had Chris Sutton chuntering and swearing. And then I thought, I need to start swearing then,

because then it'll never go out on air. He can never then use it. So I was deliberately swearing, calling him a few names. But I'm not being funny we were in there for i reckon for over 20 minutes steve bridges said i'll get out and drive but he actually realized he couldn't open the door because as soon as he looked to his right there was a wall there chris sutton was going to climb out the back window then a dog started barking and he started he panicked and was scared.

So we were there for over 20 minutes. I honestly thought I was never, ever going to get out of there. The video I've seen only lasts 12 seconds, and Chris obviously unhelpfully is filming you while you're under pressure. And Steve Bridges says something like, you've got loads of room on my side. And then Chris pans the camera, and there's about an inch and a half between the door and the wall,

and you just hear Chris go, loads is a stretch. It's just... It's got definite bits of Austin Poets about it, hasn't it? Exactly that. John, let's move it on. Let's start chatting football. You were with Chris Sutton last night for a really big game in the Champions League, Liverpool against Real Madrid.

I actually had the joy last night of sort of being able to dominate what the family was going to listen to, so our entertainment for the evening. But I paused my television, synced up my BBC Sounds app, so I've got five live commentary and I've got the pictures as well.

That was a brilliant game to describe wasn't it i'm thinking particularly that the two missed penalties from two of the biggest names in world football but the connor bradley tackle as well as a commentator that you know as soon as i saw that ball run into that space i thought oh we've got something good coming here you're right you know how often you know we've done this game for a long, long time, haven't we, doing what we do. And yet, how often is it that something happens that you think, I've never seen that before? You know, something happens that you think that that is, that's a one off. And that was exactly it with both Mbappe and Salah having penalties within a few minutes of one another, and neither of them score. That's amazing, isn't it? Kelleher obviously saves Mbappe's penalty. Salah's penalty is slightly different

because it's not a mishit, is it? But he goes for full power and slightly slices it. But Kelleher's doing a great job for Liverpool at the moment, isn't he? Yeah, he has really stepped up, hasn't he? And I remember Jurgen Klopp saying, this was when he was still relatively untried, so Klopp's obviously seen him behind the scenes. And I remember Klopp saying that, you know,

Kelleher's one of the best number twos around as a goalkeeper. And, you know, when he has stepped up, and I suppose he is a little injury-prone, Alisson, isn't he? So he's now played over 50 times for Liverpool with Ian Kelleher, as well as becoming the Republic of Ireland number one goalkeeper as well. And now you're in a position

where they've got Alisson, they have Callagher doing what he's doing at the moment, and they also have Mamadashvili, who was the big, one of the only signings that Liverpool made this summer, who will, one assumes, be coming back to Liverpool from Valencia on loan at the end of this season. So there is quite a big decision for several parties coming not too far down the road on this. It felt, though, listening to it, John, and Ali's right, particularly about that Connor Bradley challenge as well, that it was, I mean, the crowd didn't need firing up. No. But that tackle was made, then the penalty save as well.

It just, it reignited the crowd again, didn't it, on those two occasions? Yeah, it did. At the moment, they've got that great feeling, haven't they, Liverpool, that makes you think that they are going to be able to deal and absorb with whatever is thrown at them right at this moment in time. It's just reminded me to say as well, and I meant to say this right at the top, we do now have our very own specific email address which is t it is a development john and it is did you know that yes i'd read the email i told you

last week you don't read emails tcv at bbc.co.uk so if you want to get in touch with us any questions but i was just thinking i was just talking about keller there you know as a fantastic backup keeper to allison maybe your thoughts you listening to us today on on great goalkeeping number twos uh send us some of those we can have a chat about some of those at some point so that is tcv the commentators view tcv at bbc.co.uk tcvV, not 2CV like the old car. TCV. TCV. Okay, I've made a note of that now, Ian. You'll be pleased to hear.

Here's one for you then, Ali. You're working with Paul Robinson. I remember when Leeds United got to the Champions League semifinals and in that run, that particular season, Paul Robinson came off the bench and I still believe now it's one of the best goalkeeping displays I have seen as he almost single-handedly kept out Barcelona at Ellen Road with save after save after save it was when you had players such as Rivaldo starring for Barca

and in the end Barcelona scored right at the end in a 1-1 draw. But Paul came off the bench and at that point was challenging Nigel Martin, who'd been established as Leeds United's number one, England international. And I would say then that David O'Leary was blessed to have two goalkeepers of the calibre of Nigel Martin and Paul Robinson. So much so that he might have started that season as a number two, but he finished it as a joint number one. And we were talking about this earlier in the season.

Nigel Spink. I know what you're going to say. I was just going to say it. Nigel Spink of Aston Villa coming in to play in the European Cup final against Bayern Munich when Jimmy Rimmer picked up his injury. And it was Nigel Spink' second first-team appearance. And he went on to make it. He played hundreds of times for Aston Villa after that.

Just quickly before we move on to the weekend action, and I'll let you know what our commentaries are across the network this weekend in just a second. Real Madrid, John, have lost three games now in this new Champions League format. And I think one of my favourite things of the commentary last night actually was listening to you trying to get to grips with the 36-team table and what various results meant.

And it also made me think of what that's going to be like for one of us. I don't know who it's going to be. That is frightening, mate, the prospect of that. Yeah. In the last week of games where different goals going in are going to mean different things in that table. Do you think there's any danger that Real Madrid are not going to qualify? I don't know.

Are they going to finish outside the top 24 in this table? I think it's entirely possible that they could be in the elimination places after the next round of matches because they go to Atalanta. That's their next match, and bringing up my table here, Atalanta are fifth in the table, and Real Madrid are currently one place above the elimination places.

So were that to come to pass, and as I said during the commentary at Anfield, Pep Guardiola described going to Atalanta like making a trip to the dentist. After that, Real Madrid have got Salzburg at home and Brest away. So I think we know, don't we, how that particular story is going to finish when we're later in the season talking about whoever playing them in the quarterfinals or whatever it is. But it certainly adds a bit of interest.

And on the other side of things, we are going to have to begin to really try to get to grips with this table. I don't know whether you did that on Tuesday, Ian. Well, I find it's working. I likened it to a little bit like Snakes and Ladders. Yeah. I think Arsenal started the day in 12th. Before kick-off, they were 14th. And then they finished it in 8th. But I'm a big

fan of this new format. Are you not? Monaco last night were going up and down the table like nobody's business in the second half. But the thing is though, again, looking at it from a commentator's point of view, the table is too big. I cannot get the table.

I can't get in front of me a screen with all 36 teams in front of me. You've got to scroll up and down it. Or am I missing something here? Can you not change the font size? Can you? I don't know. But my only thought about it is, Ian, and you will well know this because you've done this. Saturday, three o'clock, things are happening all the time.

And you're the commentator more than anyone who has so much sort of information fed to you while you are done this. It's Saturday, 3 o'clock. Things are happening all the time. And you're the commentator more than anyone who has so much sort of information fed to you while you are commentating. So you are talking, but people are talking to you all the time. Plus, you're concentrating on a screen. And you've got your producer next to you sort of scribbling your notes and handing you things. But come the last night of games,

when everyone kicks off at the same time, and, you know, a goal will go in in one game. And that will change that table entirely by the time you get to the end of that commentary your head is going to explode yeah i remember i did a game on the last day of the season and it was for to try and avoid dropping out the football league probably about 2006 oxford united were playing late norient and i was working with david pleat and there were about nine different permutations and I had them all

down on my crib sheet and David still refers to it now about that day because between us we were on top of it. Whether there's going to be as many

permutations because there's still what another three match rounds to go isn't there? I think nine will be nothing compared to what we might have

on the final night of this. Seriously I think we need be nothing compared to what we might have on the final night of this. Seriously, I think we need to have some top-level meetings. That old BBC speciality. I think we need to make sure that we've got processes in place.

Yeah, I think by the time that comes around, what was it, January the 29th, it will have sorted itself out. Chris Sutton was saying to me, we were talking about this leaving the ground last night, Chris said, don't worry about it

a load of teams will be out of contention for this, that, the other I'm not so sure Right, second edition of our own little quiz coming up in a little bit, Clash of the Commentators is on the way, let's talk about the football that we've got on the way

this weekend across Five Live Sports Extra, BBC Sounds and the BBC Sport website, because it's talk about the football that we've got uh on the way this weekend across five live uh sports extra bbc sounds and the bbc sport website because it's been european football this week it means you get a real choice of listening on a sunday for example because there's three games kicking off half past one and you can actually listen to anyone you like so on on five live on sunday at half one we've got manchester united everton chelsea Aston Villa's on Sports Extra. And Tottenham against Fulham, if you want that, is on the BBC Sports website. We've got two games on Saturday.

Ian's going to be at Crystal Palace-Newcastle. That's the three o'clock Saturday, which is Ian's regular slot, obviously doing all the goals as they go in up and down the country. We've got full commentary on West Ham-Arsenal at half five on Saturday. But, John, we'll focus in on Sunday, the big game at the end of the weekend, Liverpool against Manchester City kicks off at four o'clock. I mean, obviously, you've already done Liverpool-Real Madrid this week, which is a massive game in itself.

You know, the fact it's a so-called big game, from the commentator's point of view, does that make any difference whatsoever in terms of preparation the way you approach it nerves etc uh i would say in the main no because you want to try and approach every game in the same way and i think it helps as well i find if it's a big game and it stands alone and you've got actually a little bit of time to get ready for it properly but you at this stage of the season, you're very much going from one match to another.

And the other thing as well is with this match, I find when it's the later Sunday afternoon game, so four o'clock kick off this one rather than 4.30. And because as you say, on this particular Sunday, it's such a busy first half of the afternoon that you're kind of into it before you know it. And there's relatively little build-up. You know, if the games earlier overrun, which they tend to do now,

that's a relatively short lead-up in the immediate build-up to the match that we'll have. But you two might feel the same way that you do for a match like this. You'll prepare and prepare and prepare and yet that all really gets taken over by what happens during the course of the match and and i think this is just set up so brilliantly isn't it when was the last time that manchester city went into a game such as this and they were classed as the underdogs and also if liver Liverpool were to win and they go 11 points clear of the champions, could you see Liverpool in their current form letting that lead slip? I don't think so. I think that Arna Slot has tightened Liverpool up at the back, that they don't give sides chances now. They are not as loose as they previously were. Trent Alexander-Arnold for instance has improved as a

right back under Arna Slott. I don't think you'll hear a Liverpool fan say it but I couldn't see Liverpool letting 11 points and I know there's an awful long way to go still but I couldn't see Liverpool the way that they're playing let that lead slip. Although of course by the time we get to the kick-off, Manchester

City may well not be second. they might be a little further down the table you know so there could be other pursuers but but even so you're absolutely right here and if it's 11 points against the champions and as we keep saying if you finish above manchester city you'll be pretty close to winning the title however you'd rather have that lead in may than you would in november to state the obvious. And the other thing about doing this game, John, and you'll have done loads of these games when it was Klopp against Guardiola, and so often that was such a massive part of the narrative, and obviously Jurgen Klopp isn't there anymore. So we're starting a sort of new series here of Liverpool against Manchester City.

Yeah, and what a time for Slott to do that in the week that he has achieved something that Jurgen Klopp wasn't able to achieve, i.e. win against Real Madrid as the Liverpool manager. And now it's Guardiola next, who is in the trough of his managerial career. And you know, that's clearly the main and obvious narrative. Just talking about big games and then obviously goals in big games, every time I go to Anfield or listen to a game from Anfield, I can't help Ian but think of your commentary alongside Alan Shearer the night that Liverpool beat Barcelona, the famous comeback win in the Champions League semi-final. Is that one of your favourite nights ever of of doing this job yes and undoubtedly and the thing is is that we'd actually preempted it because i remember speaking to alan beforehand just saying to him if there's one place where it could happen it will be anfield and if you're not a liverpool fan you'll go oh that's just just a cliche. It's a tired old cliche.

But if you are a Liverpool fan and you've been to Anfield and you've experienced those European nights, then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I also think your commentary on that goal, and I'm sure John will agree with me on this, is a great lesson in exactly what you were saying, John, is you can go into a big game and have loads of notes about previous history and encounters and stories and whatever and you've got your notes in front of you in a game but that is such a great

lesson in particularly for a radio commentary having your eyes on the action at all times and not down in your notes because that quick thinking corner what are you going to say dinner you know that set up that goal where Liverpool dummied didn't they as if they were going to take the corner and then it's suddenly whipped in by by Trent Alexander-Arnold to Origi. The day you do the perfect commentary is the day that you should retire. That's what I was told by Tom Schofield, who was the voice of Yorkshire cricket for many, many years. And he said that to me. He said, you'll never do a perfect commentary.

There's always something you'll look back and think, I should have done this. I should have done that. And actually, that Alexander-Arnold, that quick thinking. Yeah. I was behind play because I momentarily had looked down at my notes, looked up, then saw it, and I actually felt that I wasn't on top of the situation as much as I should have been. Really?

Yeah. Clever play. He knows that. He's standing in front of him. He's blocking him. Oh, it comes in! It's a corner it's Origi

Liverpool for Barcelona now and Liverpool may well have produced the greatest European

comeback ever the greatest European comeback ever unbelievable oh my word how clever Trent Alexander-Arnold we talked about crosses

they go to sleep he takes the early one he whips it in a reiki there's no one around him free shot six yards out wow it was quick thinking by alexander arnold and it did almost catch me out so i wasn't particularly happy about that part of the commentary if i'm being brutally honest another one here as well john so rob nothman that is a name a lot of our listeners will know rob you'll have heard broadcasting he's one of our brilliant producers but he's also a fantastic commentary coach and pundit coach so particularly with our pundits who are new to the game rob nothman will sit down and do hours with them and sort of get them ready to get on air but he's a coach to the stars isn't he he's a guru isn't he's a guru but but i always remember one of

the things he said to me quite early on was quite often you'll come away from a commentary and think you've nailed it and invariably you haven't and quite often you'll come away from a commentary and you'll think you've completely stuffed it up and invariably you haven't it's it's always somewhere in between as ian says you you'll never you'll never do it perfectly because it happens in the moment it's no good looking back and thinking i wish i'd said that actually in one of the sessions we were talking about the difference between doing commentary for match of the day so us three have all done a little bit of match of the day commentary but we we would normally do radio more than we would television and rob saying to me at the time that the big difference there is match the day because they're only going to use a relatively short

amount of your commentaries you'll do 90 minutes of commentary and paint loads of lovely pictures of whatever but actually the key bit is you've just got to nail the big moments you know if there's a sending off as a's a goal, you know, because those are the only bits that are going to appear. And so I went off and did one of my, I can't remember, first commentaries on Match of the Day. And it was a Bournemouth game. I can't remember who they were playing.

And Bournemouth had just brought Lewis Cook onto the pitch as well as Steve Cook. And I thought, oh, yeah yeah i could chuck in a funny little line here about too many cooks spoiling the broth so stupidly i lob it in as bournemouth are building a move up the right hand side which then turns into a goal about four seconds later so this terrible line about too many cooks spoiling the broth because it's one of the big moments of the game has to go in the commentary and I'm just picturing those editors in the studio

just thinking we can't take that out that's terrible did you then say but maybe the cooks have found the right ingredients I should have done

but that's it you never do the perfect commentary do you so the football daily podcast on BBC sounds weekend mornings

on five live Saturdays from 9am Patrick Kielty On BBC Sounds. Weekend mornings on Five Live. Saturdays from 9am. Patrick Kielty. Ah, good morning, folks. There you are. And at 11, Fighting Talk. With Rick Edwards. It's the debates you have with your mates in the pub or the group chat thrashed out furiously on national radio.

Sundays from 10. Colleen Murray. Conversation, connection and community that's what this show's all about weekend mornings on bbc radio 5 live the commentators view on the football daily podcast bbc radio 5 live tcv at bbc.co.uk is the email address one of the questions has come in from raj silver fox and i don't know how much time we'll take on this right now but this is one that might run and run throughout the pod on average how many miles a week do you drive and what are your favorite motorway service stations okay so we won't take too long on this right now but are there any in particular that

you think if a certain journey is taking you a certain way you think i'll just build in half an hour there because i like stopping there i think you two you're like peas in a pod because i think you've both got a book that will tell you about john used to have a a book i think restaurants five minutes off a motorway and i think ali you've got something similar whereas i don't like veering off the motorway i always stop to a service station where i can get easy access off the slip road straight back on it creature of habit well yeah and also i know i do a lot more miles than john because john tends to let the the train take the strain whereas i would probably do about 25,000 miles

probably a season or a year. I reckon I'm probably about 15,000. Funnily enough, I think I'm somewhere in between, actually. I think I'm around about 20,000 miles a season. But you're right, Ian, I do have a book and it was John that inspired me to buy the book and it sits in the glove box. And you do have to build in a little bit of time

to make these stops work. And not all of them are absolute winners, but some of them. I mean, this is a very obvious one, and loads of our listeners will know this, but I drove up to Glasgow the other week to do Scotland against Croatia before getting the overnight sleeper home, which is another story I'll tell another day. Actually, I've never done that before. But Teabay on the way up.

Teabay is a wonderful place to stop and have a cup of coffee and something to eat. But if you can build up, some of these places are just as easy as stopping at a service station. John, before we get on to some more football chat, it's time to have a brief quiz interruption. It is time for the second edition of Clash of the Commentators. You beat Ian last week in my little quiz that I set for you two. This is me against Ian this week. Yes, and this week, it is all about a man who returned to England this week with Roma. Hey, Dilly-Din, Dilly-Don, wake up, wake up.

And also, hey, man, we are in Champions League. We are in Champions League, man. That was my next question. Dilly-Din, Dilly-don, come on. I paid to everybody a pizza. But I think they wait, I improve. OK, the pizza and hot dog. OK, come on.

Dilly-din, dilly-don. And that was, of course, Claudio Ranieri, Premier League winner with Leicester City. So I'm going to ask you a few questions about that title-winning campaign. So here we go. You two, get your dilly-dings and dilly-dongs ready. So, just to explain, John,

like a sudden death penalty shootout, taking it in turns to answer here, as soon as someone misses, all over. Yeah, exactly so. Let's fire off some suitable music. Of course, Andrea Bocelli live at the King Power Stadium. I think these are quite tricky. I don't think this will

go that long. I think, Ali, because you were the quiz master last week, you can go first. So, first question, Ali, what season did Leicester City win the Premier League? OK, I can answer that one correctly, I'm pretty sure. 2015, 2016. So they actually lifted the trophy in 2016.

Correct. Dilly Ding. Dilly Ding. Dilly Ding. Ian, what is Claudio Ranieri's nickname from his time at Chelsea? The Tinkerman. Dilly Ding-a-ling. Right.

Two easy ones to begin with. They do get trickier now. So, Ali, who played the most matches for Leicester City as left-back that season? Oh, I think I'm going to get that. Are you? That must be Christian Fuchs. It is. I thought that might test you, you know.

No, no, no, no. Ian. I thought that might test you, you know. No, no, no, no. Ian. I thought that was quite easy. Good. What odds were Leicester City to win the title at the beginning of that season? And you've got a choice. Was it 1,000 to 1? 5,000 to 1?

Or was it 10,000 to 1? I feel like Derek Beatty. Before you'd said that, my answer was going to be 5,000 to one. Final answer? What is this? Who wants to be a millionaire? Final answer? Final answer. Very good.

That's naughty, John, trying to talk him out of it. I knew he wouldn't change his mind because he's a creature of habit. Next, Ali. Robert Huth, or Robert Hute if we're going to pronounce his name correctly, played a starring role as centre-half for Leicester City that season. But

who did they sign him from? Which club did they sign Robert Huth from? I'm going to say was he Stoke? Stoke City you've done what you've done better than I thought you were going to I've got to turn the page now to the second side of a4 that was a good one patronizing of you John was it well no I didn't mean to be patronizing okay Ian you feel too well to get this. Thanks for the compliment. When Andrea Bocelli performed Nessun Dorma

at the King Palace Stadium, who was the opposition team? Oh, that's a horror. That's why I said I didn't think you'd get it. Yeah. Everton. No, I don't believe it. Ali, who was playing in the Premier League on the night Leicester City won the league?

Oh, yeah. They were confirmed as champions. Well, your commentary, John, your reporting of that, you were there at Stamford Bridge. That was Chelsea and Tottenham. Correct. Well, here we are. Yeah.

He's jumped the gun. I jumped the gun there. That was actually an easy one. It was. Yeah. Compared to that, this question. Who was the referee at that match? Who was the referee at Chelsea 2, Tottenham 2? Who was the referee of that match?

The Battle of the Bridge? Yep. Michael Oliver. That's the referee of that match? The Battle of the Bridge? Yep. Michael Oliver. That's a hard question. Who was it? Do you know, Ali? Famous referees. Leading referees.

Leading referees. One of the most prominent referees. I'm not going to get it. Go on, John. Mark Clattenburg. Oh, Clattenburg. Yeah, very good. We still have another feature to come at the end of this podcast,

but I do know that Ian needs to get away. So I'm wondering whether I can take an executive decision here, and I'm certainly going to be told by my producer if I can't. Maybe then I'll chuck you one on what you're doing this weekend. We let you say toodle-pip and off you go. And then John and I will finish with a bit of, you know, a bit of great dictionary of football commentary. Come on then, Crystal Palace against Newcastle.

You're alongside Michael Brown. I mean, I know you're only just back from Lisbon, so the prep won't really have started yet. Talk to me about working at Selhurst Park. That's what our listeners will want to know about. Ian, what's that like? It is a little unusual in the sense that you are not in a central position, the commentary position.

You're in the press box in the sense that you are not in a central position, the commentary position, you're in the press box in the front row, but you are effectively level with the penalty area to the right of the halfway line. So you've not got a great view. And also, and obviously I talked about my problems in Portugal, getting to Selhurst Park, whether you're a journalist or a supporter, there can't be many more that are so problematic.

Whenever I go there, I feel like I'm driving in the Bermuda Triangle because I always go a different way to the ground and I always come back a different way. I don't have a set route to get to Selhurst Park. I follow my sat-nav and... Never got you into trouble in the past? You're going to tell me that you've stumbled

across the Vasco da Gama Bridge in Croydon, aren't you? Yeah, it stretches from Biggin Hill to wherever in that part of the world. It's an interesting place to get to. But to be fair to Crystal Palace and their staff, and a big shout out to Grace, get looked after very, very well. But Ali, can I just say thank you very much for your show of generosity. Not at all. I'm a massive, yeah, I'm a massive, am I allowed to give away why you're dashing away or not? Well, they've got tickets for Deacon Blue's pre-sale.

They're doing a tour next year. And the tickets are on sale at 10 o'clock. I'm not as big a fan as you are of Deacon Blue, but I'm a massive fan of Deacon Blue, so I totally get it. So away you go, and I'll see you soon. Just before you go in, just on a serious note, while you're still here, we were talking about Leicester City there. Really sad news from the commentary world this week

about the death of Neville Folger, who you and I will both remember from our early days. And I think when we're doing a podcast like this, it's only right that we should mention him and talk about what a what a prominent figure he was in in the media area in the press box whenever you went to Leicester City so really sad news yeah and our condolences go to his his family and friends because he was he was the voice of Leicestershire sport um I remember coming across Neville both from a football point

of view but also a cricket point of view when I was covering cricket at Grace Road. And obviously the voice of Leicester City for many years. So you'd come across him at Filbert Street and just a gentleman. So very sad to hear of his passing. Yeah, well said. And everyone, I'm sure,

BBC Radio Leicester will be really feeling that this week. And also lots and lots of colleagues of ours who came through Radio Leicester who always spoke really well of Neville Folger, so yeah sad news. Yeah, thank you John thank you Ian, and Ian you'll be back

for the commentators for you next week, have a good weekend. I will, you too have a good weekend. Thank you, goodbye watch out for that bridge Ian's at Selhurst Park, 3 o'clock on Saturday, that is your five live commentary. Crystal Palace against Newcastle. John, I'm at Old Trafford on Sunday for Manchester United against Everton.

I'm going to tell you, and I'll listen to a very quick tale here, and this will amuse you from the commentator's point of view, but you actually predicted this in last week's podcast. When the first Amarim team sheet arrived at Portman Road, the chaos and consternation it caused... Chaos. In the press box, with commentators all standing up, sort of shouting across to each other,

Casemiro right centre-back, do you think? Dalot, where's Dalot? You know, honestly. And it wasn't until... But I think the lovely thing actually is, John, and, you know, it's a really useful period of time. The warm-ups for a game for us as commentators can be really useful, can't they, to sort of get visual identifiers on players.

But as soon as Manchester United came out to warm up, it was very clear what they were going to do because there were some very intense coaching drills going on with the three centre-backs, with the wing-backs, with the two central midfielders. But honestly, that first ten minutes where we're all about to broadcast the team news, no one had a clue, really.

That is as predicted. So, yeah, Manchester United against Everton on Sunday. Made any early impressions of the new man? I think so far, so good, isn't it, in terms of how he's come across? Yeah, I think so. And in what he said in advance of the match against Bordeaux Glimp, talking about Rashford, you know, he's still across and in what he said in advance of the match against Bordeaux Glimp talking about Rashford he is still in

I think what we would call the honeymoon period. What a lovely segue. Yes, so that takes us on to the final element of the commentator's view this week, the great dictionary of football commentary that we instigated last week

it's already got to mention this feature john i don't know if you're aware of this but the uh the football cliches podcast which is one i listen to and absolutely love and people who enjoy the art of football commentary and the language within that and sort of discussion around the language that football commentators use it is a fantastic podcast to listen to i think i think they felt we were slightly treading on their toes with the great dictionary of well we are commentators who use this language and all we're asking our listeners to do is get in touch with us and talk about phrases that that they hear that they like that possibly they don't like that they think should be included in a in a dictionary of football commentary.

I think we're okay. I would like to think so, yeah. You'd like to think so. Ideas like this are not exclusive, are they? So honeymoon period, that was the one last week that I did get into my commentary. Did you? I'm pleased to hear it. Portman Road.

Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah, that wasn't hard, John. That wasn't hard. No. You mentioned languishing last week about teams languishing. We've had a nice couple of texts from a couple of our listeners. Dave Robson from Sutton Coldfield says,

a plomb said no one ever except for when describing a beautiful finish in football. You know, he finished with a plomb. You don't say, well done, you finished that yoghurt with a plum uh you don't say well done you finished that yogurt with a plum that's not quite the same if you ever celebrate finishing a yogurt unless it was plum yogurt very good very good and this one uh this is from spud and spud is a regular emailer to the fantasy 606 podcast and he picked up on a word i've used a couple of times in commentary this season and you'd hear it more actually in cricket than you would in football but steepling john so if a ball goes miles up in the air as you know a steeply you take a steepling catch don't you

cricket do we use steepling anywhere else yeah i'm not sure you do yeah no i think that's it i think it's a very good very good suggestion yeah so this is obviously something for people on tcv at bbc.co.uk to suggest their yes potential entries for our great dictionary of football commentary sean so this is the one for this week john and this is i mean this is an obvious one we do say this and it is a thing it does happen he's gone with commentators curse which I'm sure at some point this weekend one of you me Ian maybe Connor McNamara Vicky Sparks whoever else is commentating Chris Wise John Akers will say something like Tottenham playing really well at the moment or looking extremely solid at the back and within a minute they'll concede. That will happen.

Well, I felt that I entered that territory in the Liverpool-Real Madrid match when Gakpo scored the second goal. I kind of said, surely they will go on and win this now against Real Madrid, the team that comes back almost more than any other team

in European football. And it did cross my mind that I may have slipped them the old commentator's curse. Yes, but that is something that exists. And I think, I mean, in terms of, you know, if you were going to flick open your great dictionary of football commentary under C, you would find commentator's curse.

Yes, you would. So, John, you, and in fact, here's my last question to you, John. I was listening to you last night. So at half 10 the show finishes and i switch off and i make my herbal tea and i pop off up to bed having uh having listened to no gordon smart for you then poor gordon no gordon smart well i was onto my cricket i was onto i was watching my cricket by then obviously because uh england new zealand but i was just thinking because i know personal experience, you still had quite a lot of work to do at that point.

So what do you have to do? So at half ten, when that show finishes, what do you have to do before you leave that football ground? This is very much one for the anoraks, isn't it? Well, I know, but I think people would be interested, John. I then have to write a voice piece. So I've already done a hurried one for the start of the 10 o'clock half hour. So that needs to be

properly written. So that's the first thing I did. Graham came up from BBC TV Sport and they wanted a sort of three minute summation. So we filmed that in the stands at Anfield. That will go on the BBC Sport website. That will go on the BBC Sport website,

that will go on the social media feeds. Yeah, yeah, all of that. Then I went downstairs, I was hoping I would still see, because I could see on the television Carlo Ancelotti was in the press conference, and I was hoping to see it on a slot, because I would have liked to have heard what he said, so I could use a flavour of that in the morning. I find it's always better to

actually hear it yourself in person. Of course, by the time I got down there, I walked into the press conference room just as Arna Slott was leaving through the other door, so I completely missed that. And that was just about it. We had had a chat about what was in it with one or two of us. Yeah. What time did the

head hit the pillow? Just after sort of midnight-ish. In fact, it was about quarter past 12 because I watched about three quarters of an hour of the cricket

before I went to sleep. And you've got Liverpool against Manchester City to come this weekend. I'm very much looking forward to listening to that. Who do you have alongside you, John?

I've got Mr. Dion Dublin alongside me. There is no better company. Four o'clock at Anfield, Five Live and BBC Sounds, John Murray and Dion Dublin with Liverpool against Manchester City. You may have noticed no wheel of spiel this week. That's our little commentary challenge feature

that will return. That won't be there every single week, but we'd love your suggestions for that as well, actually. If you've got something that you want us to commentate on, whatever it is, then send us the footage, attach it to an email and send it to tcv at bbc.co.uk. Thank you very much for listening. We'll speak to you again next week.

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When I saw him the first time play, I said, we have a player here. Sporting Giants. Listen on BBC Sounds.