Football Daily - The Commentators’ View: Wimbledon tennis special

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Ali Bruce-Ball is joined by Conor McNamara & tennis correspondent Russell Fuller to talk about what it’s like commentating at Wimbledon. What is the secret to a good tennis commentary? Will any tennis-isms feature in the Great Glossary of Football Commentary? And will this correspondent come out on top in Clash of the Commentators?WhatsApp voicenotes to 08000 289 369 Emails to [e-mail]02:15 How does Russell prepare for Wimbledon? 04:05 Standing vs sitting & commentating in a booth, 07:15 Russell reveals the secret to a good tennis comms, 10:20 Ali & Conor on having a go at tennis commentary, 12:50 Russell reflects on the dramatic French Open men’s final, 17:30 Catering for a wide audience on 5 Live, 20:45 Conor’s ‘top top top’ player of the Club World Cup, 22:05 Tennis-isms & Americanisms in commentary, 30:10 Russell’s surprise Clash of the Commentators, 36:40 LIVE SHOW REMINDER, 39:50 Great Glossary of Football Commentary.BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Sat 2000 England v Germany in UEFA U21 Final, Sun 1700 England v Jamaica in women’s friendly, Wed 1700 Iceland v Finland on Sports Extra 2, Wed 2000 Switzerland v Norway on 5 Live, Thu 2000 Spain v Portugal on 5 Live.Glossary so far: 2-0 is a dangerous score, After you Claude, All-Premier League affair, Aplomb, Brace, Brandished, Breaking the deadlock, Bundled over the line, Champions elect / champions apparent, Clinical finish, Commentator’s curse, Coupon buster, Cultured/Educated left foot, Denied by the woodwork, Draught excluder, Elimination line, Fellow countryman, Foot race, Formerly of this parish, Fox in the box, Free hit, Goalmouth scramble, Good touch for a big man, Head tennis, Honeymoon Period, In and around, In the shop window, Keeping ball under their spell, Languishing, Loitering with intent, Marching orders, Nestle in the bottom corner, Numbered derbies, Nutmeg, Opposite number, Park the bus, PK for penalty-kick, Postage stamp, Put their laces through it, Rasping shot, Red wine not white wine, Relegation six-pointer, Rooted at the bottom, Roy of the Rovers stuff, Sending the goalkeeper the wrong way, Sleeping giants, Slide rule pass, Small matter of, Smash and grab, Spiders web, Stayed hit, Steepling, Stinging the palms, Stonewall penalty, Straight off the training ground, Stramash, Sweeper keeper, Throw their cap on it, Thruppenny bit head / 50p head, Turns like an ocean liner / aircraft carrier, Put it in the mixer, Towering header, Turning into a basketball match, Turning into a cricket score, Walking a disciplinary tightrope, Wand of a left foot, We’ve got a cup tie on our hands, Where the owl sleeps, Winger in their pocket, Wrap foot around it, Your De Bruynes, your Gundogans etc.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The commentators view on the football daily podcast. BBC Radio 5 live. Hello, welcome to the football daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball and this is a special edition of the commentators view. We usually talk about our love of football on this podcast, our joy in the language we use to describe it, and the amazing places of course it takes us. But today, as we're just days out from Five Lives coverage of the championships at Wimbledon, we have a tennis twist to TCV. We're still going to have the glossary and clash of the commentators a bit later on,

but we've subbed out our football correspondent John Murray for this one. He's still working though currently in Slovakia following England's under 21 Saturday night commentary, by the way, on Five Live of England against Germany in the final eight o'clock on Saturday night. And senior football reporter Ian Dennis is on his holidays. But coming in, lip mics at the ready, bright eyed and bushy tailed are Conor McNamara, who is never knowingly on his holidays anyway he is live from the USA where he's covering the Club World Cup and I'm delighted to say making a TCV debut today our tennis correspondent Russell Fuller and Russell clearly during the

summer in particular you are not allowed any holidays any time off this is busiest time of the year isn't it it, Wimbledon, around the corner? I've never tried to put any leave in in the first two weeks of July. I imagine I would be given short shrift. This period from the French Open, really, which starts at the end of May, through the grass court season, because these events at Queen's and Eastbourne mean a lot to British tennis as well, and then through Wimbledonon are the best eight weeks of the year, but it's very, very difficult to really justify taking a day off because there is

always something happening. There's always a new story just around the corner. Yeah, and actually Russ, I think that is really interesting from the correspondence point of view covering tennis. You know, if Connor and I are getting ready for a major football tournament, we are mainly concentrating on the teams and the commentaries we're going to do but you're not just commentating on that. I mean not only have you got to prepare for commentary every day but you are the voice, you are the correspondent so as you say any story that's you. The preparation is different you're right you have to take a general overview of the event so I always make

sure I remind myself what happened at the Championships 12 months previously. It's always very important to have at your fingertips all the innovations, the changes at this year's Championships, for example at Wimbledon this year the fact there'll be no line judges for the first time and how that's going to work. You need to make sure that you've got some notes of recent form of the top players in the world and the British wild cards who I don't know a great deal about in all honesty because some of them have been given their first chance in their late teens.

And then it's almost a case of hoping for the best because there are 128 players in the men's singles, 128 in the women's singles. The draw is not made until the Friday morning with the tournament beginning the following Monday So as we speak I have absolutely no idea which couple of commentary matches I'll be doing on Monday or Tuesday So you can't specifically prepare for matches really until the morning in question Yeah, I mean that that does make me feel slightly guilty about using up some valuable time here, so close to Wimbledon. Connor, you're hard at work.

I mean, Connor, you're actually speaking to us from a commentary box right now. So paint a little picture for us. Yeah, I'm here, not quite centre-court Wimbledon, but it's impressive. It's what used to be called the Citrus Bowl in Orlando. It's now called the Camping World Stadium, which I'd love to hear John Murray saying that. I just think that would roll off his tongue very well. But yeah, it's baking hot here. But thankfully, as you can see, I'm channeling my inner gym nance because we've got a commentary booth. So like good day sports fans. It's

cool. But the sort of glasses we look out, but the bottom panel of the glasses is open air. So you don't have that sort of reflection issue or feeling that you're too far away from the action. And you look like you're standing Conor, do you normally stand when you're commentating? No good, very good question. I'm not, I'm just to speak to you, I've sort of stepped back a level from where I'll be sitting for the commentary but yeah, do you know what, I have got a theory that you commentate better standing up. Sometimes as you'll all know, facilities don't allow that, you know, somewhere like the old Goodison Park if you stood up then the people behind you won't be able to see but and where possible if a TV gantry if I if the

choice to stand up for some reason I feel you're just you don't slouch into a slumber do you you're kind of more open and active but obviously it's it's needs most and loads of times they end up you know having to do it sitting down. Commentary booths though actually that that is quite interesting Connor because normally for us at football stadiums booths are rare aren't they where we tend to be in the open air in amongst the fans which I really like whereas actually Russell you would spend well I mean at tennis you can't do that because you're gonna be heard by the players you

you have to be in a booth. Well occasionally I have been put in that position where I am just uncomfortably close to the action and it wouldn't happen at one of the Grand Slams where there are built commentary boxes but the most recent time it happened was at a Billie Jean King cup tie in Le Portel in northern France in April of last year and fortunately I wasn't doing ball by ball commentary but I was still doing a couple of reports an hour and I was probably only about 8 to 10 rows back. Now I've done some golf commentary before as you know and therefore the whispering is almost second nature but it doesn't really go with tennis commentary in the same way it does

with golf commentary. I had little alternative but to drop my voice and I'm pretty sure no one on the court heard me but you're anxious every time you pick up the microphone in fact the biggest problem thinking about it now guys was the spectators in front of me they were seriously unhappy with me a lot of them were British fans who'd made the short journey over the channel but first of all they said look you're disrupting the players I said look I am sure that I am NOT disrupting the players even though it was an open-air commentary box it actually turned out that I was upsetting them and I was disturbing their piece. They come all this way to enjoy the tennis and they did

not want me rabbiting on every half an hour telling Five Live listens exactly what was taking place on court. As I've always said over the years, I'm never nervous at the thought of hundreds of thousands or millions of people listening, but what I always don't like is when a real person in real life in front of me is listening. You're always more aware of what you're saying in that regard. But Russell, I've always felt that, and I presume, you know, Centre Court Wimbledon, you are behind glass, I'm assuming, right?

Yeah, we are. And that would be the same for all of the Grand Slams and really all the major tournaments, But it's when they put you too close to the action and you have these disgruntled fans banging the wall in front of you to let you know how unhappy they are with your work. And I've always wondered, Ross, because I know you mentioned the whispering in golf, but I would have thought the fluctuation from really, really low to really big winning shots, you know, up and down, up and down for such a long game, that must that must be taxing on the voice I also if you keep the same level of voice you're not there's not as much wear and tear but where's you're going up and down pressing on the accelerator and easing off yeah but the range is crucial

isn't it and in the way that you're right you are almost sort of voce at times when you are perhaps building up to the next point and it's a moment of high tension it's lovely to be able to do that to contrast with those big moments where you are describing the end of a 20-shot rally or a set point or a match point or even a championship point. So I think that's one of the great things about tennis commentary that it does really give you the variety to be very conversational, speaking actually quite slowly with very few words and quite softly and then suddenly you're really going for it when it matters and I think that is probably one of the key secrets to successful tennis commentary. Well I would argue Russ, I mean Connor and I and we'll get onto this in a bit, both actually had a

go. Connor and I turned up at Wimbledon on the same day didn't we Connor, to do a bit of sort of trial tennis commentary to see if either of us could be any good at it and discovered exactly how difficult it is. I would argue Russ, I do think as a sport on the radio, in particular I'm talking radio commentary of sport, I think it's possibly the hardest to do, you know, because first and foremost you just can't get every shot in, you cannot keep up with the pace of it. No, very rarely would you want to do that. Occasionally it is very effective if you're getting to a critical stage of a match and there's a big rally on and you might describe every single shot but then you have to be very

brief with what you say so you can't really offer much colour. It almost needs to be forehand Djokovic, backhand Alcaraz because otherwise you haven't got time to keep up and I think that can be very very effective if used sparingly. At other times you just perhaps are describing the shots that one player is hitting. If you were trying to hit every shot or rather describe every shot throughout a three or a four hour match it would be a very boring listen and it would be very tedious for the listener so I think again that's where you need to just use as much variety as you can it's a lot of people have said to me actually they think that tennis is one of the hardest things to

do Mike Costello who did boxing with us to such an amazing standard for so many years said that he used to warm up by doing some tennis commentary just before he would get ready for a big fight. But I think it also comes down to a skillset. And I honestly would not have made a football commentator. And when I say that, people say, well, that's ridiculous. You do tennis, of course you can do football. But to me, and it's the way our brains work in different ways, I can cope with the speed

of the match on court. I like the descriptive passages between the points, because it's often 25, 30 seconds between points. But what I think I've always struggled with is actually picking out the player, making the header when six or seven players go up for the ball and the identification on the pitch it's just something that I find incredibly difficult to do and therefore I've always had huge admiration in particular for football commentators and rugby commentators for that very reason.

Do you remember doing the tennis Connor? Oh so much I mean it's such a funny tale really because I'm trying to work out how long ago it was, Ali. It's a long time ago. It's over 10 years ago that. I do remember it was our work experience week, wasn't it? And you two both got the nod. Bring your kid to work. Bring your football commentator to work day. At this stage, BBC Five Live was looking to expand its commentary team. And they were going to try out loads of people to see how they did. So commentators of other sports to see how they got on. And I think quite a few broadcasters across the range went and had a go. But what was brilliant about it was this wasn't sort of go on some random Tuesday. This was show

up on, I think it was women's semi-final day alley. And we used what I guess, I think it was like a sports extra studio, a different commentary box was Hi-op, which I think actually helped us because a little bit more like football, we were on the tennis version of Halfway Line and Hi-op and we were brought along to have a go and see how we would sound. So this has not been broadcast to be recorded, to be listened to by producers later to see are any of these guys any good at tennis and could we use them going forward in the future? So we'd obviously done our bit of prep.

We showed up. I remember Jonathan Overend was there. I remember Ali Eakin was there. I remember they were so generous with their time, given that they were broadcasting for real on the, on the match that day and they were helping us little tips, you know, try to do this, try not to do that. This, you think this will work, but it won't. It was really effective.

So we were there all day. Then we went up, then we did the commentary. And we were, was it like a set, alternate sets, I think, Ali? And, and I think, you know, we gave it a good stab, we gave it a good stab, that was all done and we came back down to where all the producers were downstairs. Of course they're live on air. So they were like, yeah, thanks, that's great. You know, talk to you later.

We're busy. We're live on air. So we went off, had our PIMS. It was Wimbledon. That was great. And I never heard back about whether they thought I was any good or not. And I took it to be quite a slight. I was like, oh, it must have been terrible.

Like they never even said, look, got a good, good try, but we don't think like just nothing. And I did eventually pluck up the courage to about a month later ask what are the produce? By the way, was there any feedback from me and Ali doing the tennis? And this colleague who I would know quite well who would expect to reply straight away didn't reply for a few days. I thought oh god this is really bad

and then eventually they came back and admitted we never recorded it. So someone will write a book about the greatest tennis commentary that no one ever heard. Actually that that leads me on to you know to great tennis matches Russ that you've commentated on and very recently that I mean in fact that the weekend of the finals at the French Open women's and men's were both incredibly dramatic for sort of different reasons in a way but that that men's final that must be up there Russ with one of the best matches you've ever commentated on. It's quite possibly the best in that it was

incredibly high quality with some ferocious hitting and some very very good rallies and it went right to the death. For a match on the Sunday to go to the five sets and five hours and 29 minutes and for someone like Yannick Sinner to have three championship points having barely lost a match in the previous six months, to miss them and then to be reeled in by Alcarath in the first ten point tiebreak to decide a Grand Slam final was extraordinary and they just hit the ball so hard those two. It is like a video game when they are playing each other because the ball just zips from one side of the net to the other with such ferocity and the exciting thing is that they're probably going to play another 10 of these

if they stay fit and healthy and motivated. It was their first Grand Slam final, they're both in their early 20s and the physical endurance that it took both of those men and you think Yannick Sinner had missed three months because of that doping violation. He'd not had as much time on court as he would normally have going into a Grand Slam but he still seemed to find a second win to take it into that fifth set tiebreak. It was extraordinary and I'm sure you've both got examples of this when you are so high in adrenaline after a match that the tiredness just doesn't kick in. We were there quite late on the Sunday night as you can imagine because the final doesn't start until three o'clock so by the time the

presentation was done it was gone nine o'clock in the evening and then we had the press conferences and we were filing for various networks so it was quite late to get back to the hotel and I had to get up about six o'clock the next morning to get the Eurostar to go to Queens because it was the first day of the women's event there and we were on air from lunchtime and I felt absolutely brilliant all morning full of exhilaration didn't feel at all tired. And it hit me midway through Monday afternoon.

And that feeling is quite rare, isn't it? When you are just so pumped, you are so excited by what you've seen, that actually you're oblivious to the tiredness you feel, despite a very short night's sleep, until 18 hours after the match had finished. But also when you're in the middle of that Russ, do you, I mean obviously it's incredibly exciting and you're aware you're commentating on something very very special, do you feel

the pressure at all to deliver, to sort of, you know, to match the quality of the tennis and actually I always find this, if the football is good, if the golf is good, it's your job to relay it and actually that's relatively easy to do because the sport is so good you're just kind of telling the story as best you can but there is a pressure with that i think as as well because you want to do it to the very best of your ability yeah it's probably there in the back of your mind but it comes with experience doesn't it and i would agree with you when you say that the better the match the easier it is to do because there are sometimes matches that are really quite difficult to describe because they're not flowing there aren't very

many rallies and that can be particularly an issue on a grass court where we might get shorter rallies because it's a faster surface and you feel that the commentary is very bitty and disjointed and this was the polar opposite of that because the rallies were good, the rallies were long, the crowd noise also was spectacular and as you both know that is a major major part of what we do isn't it being able to use that crowd especially on the radio to do your job for you in many ways and I think especially in tennis it's probably harder in football because goals aside it's more of a uniform noise throughout the 90 minutes isn't it but in tennis you are going to get quite regularly in a really fantastic match spectacular rallies that can be met with a 20 30 second ovation and actually at times you can

certainly shut up and say nothing for half of that and just let Wimbledon Centre Court let rip. I don't know about your house or well Russ you're always there working, but in our house during Wimbledon it's on the radio, it's on the telly and it's just the background noise and sometimes you're really focused in on the commentary and you're properly tuned into what's going on in the match. But actually just the noise of Wimbledon is in our house for two weeks and in our garden and it's just tennis balls being hit. But even the rhythm of those tennis balls, you know like Russell says Connor, even without

the commentary you can pretty much tell what's going on. I just love that noise, those acoustics from Wimbledon. I totally agree and I'll add to the cars, you often come from the car into the house and the radio will be already out of the car. I think a question I have for you Russ is and I know there are people who absolutely love their tennis and of course follow it 365 non-stop but for a lot of people they tune in for big events like Wimbledon. So I'd imagine there's a pressure on you that as much as you're trying to cater for the tennis specialists who want to know all the technique

and the little technicalities that you've also got to have that broad range to cover the people who have never been to Wimbledon, who probably never will be, who've seen a little bit on television and you've got to cater for what they would understand about her too. Yes, we're very aware of that and there is a difference then, isn't there, between perhaps the coverage that we would do on SportsXtra from the first week of the French Open and what we do on Five Live during Wimbledon, where you know you are inheriting a general audience. Many of those will be sports fans exactly as you say, take a passing interest in tennis but no more than that and therefore you don't want to be patronizing or condescending in any way but you can't assume knowledge in the same way and

I think that's where Wimbledon as the event helps you out enormously because yes when you get to the latter stages then the matches are the most important thing. But in that first week in particular, and it doesn't mean that we would be regularly in conversation when balls are being hit in the background and talking over the match, because that does tend to wind people up. We know that from experience. But it is more about the event. It's about the big stars. it's about the fact that there are 45,000 people inside the Wimbledon grounds. It might be about what they're eating and drinking, it might be about what celebrities

are in the Royal Box. And the first week of a Grand Slam does that in spades. And the other Grand Slams are an incredible privilege as well, but Wimbledon is different because it's the one time we are guaranteed to be on Five Live pretty much throughout the fortnight and have that access to that wider audience you're talking about. As always with the commentators view we want your contributions. tcv at bbc.co.uk is the email address you can get in touch on whatsapp as well and leave us voice notes number for that is 08000 289369 I should say at this point we're hoping

to also do a golf special ahead of the open this summer and a women's euro special ahead of England's title defence in Switzerland so those addresses those numbers very useful for those any questions thoughts remarks whatever want, send them in on there. James in Kent has written in, and this is kind of on the Alcaraz-Sinner thing in terms of, you know, two players at the very top of the game going head-to-head in a humdinger. Really loving the pod, always listen on the Saturday morning dog walk, looking forward to season 2 on the football daily Destination, New Jersey the other week presented by hair Chapman

No less the growing use of top top top was again in evidence this time from Gabrielle Zaccuani When interviewed about attracting players to play for the Democratic Republic of Congo. I mean now it works hand-in-hand I think us doing well makes it a lot easier to attract the top, top, top cream of the crop to join the Congolese national team. So I think that's how it is. Top, top, top. Big tick in the box.

Definitely in the glossary. Who, Connor, for you at the Club World Cup, mustn't forget you're out there covering this tournament at the moment, who has been the top top top player that you've seen so far? I think there's been, I think every player this tournament's going to be top. There's been quite a few top top players. But if we're going to go the whole hog, if we're going to go top top top, he's still got it. I mean to commentate on Lionel Messi the other night,

and he didn't score the game I comment on. He hit the post and he hit the crossbar but it was just the passes. He gets in the midfield and he's just got this radar still and of course he can't sprint the way he used to but the weight on the passes and the teammates who play with him it must be such a joy. So he's still the one, he just is. The fizz of excitement goes around the steady but we're absolutely going to miss him when he's gone. I was fortunate to be in Munich at the Nations League finals earlier in June and Ronaldo scored in the semi-final and the final for Portugal. And you know, the 40 years of age now and still they still have this aura. And I'm sure the kind of next generation coming through are just wishing that these guys would move and leave the stage and let someone else take the limelight. But they continue to hug it absolutely. But it's yeah, if we're we're going to go top top and a third top, it's still messy

for me. One of the features Russ of this pod is the great glossary of football commentary. So particularly football specific phrases, the lingo of football commentary. But I mean, there must be tennis-isms. I mean, I don't know whether top top top comes into tennis at all. Have you ever used that? Have you heard people use that? If anybody's used it, it would have been ironically, I'm sure.

I've always enjoyed, and again, because it brings a smile to my face, a good touch for a big man, which I think you can probably use in many, many sports. I was thinking about some of the phrases you use and whether we would use the same ones in tennis. And there was not a great deal of crossover, but you could have a ball nestling at the bottom of the net I suppose. Yeah that just about works doesn't it when a player hits a very very poor forehand. You could be denied by the net post rather than by the post but generally the language of tennis is I say it's quite basic you can't use too much variety when you're describing those rapid rallies.

There aren't any good synonyms I've ever discovered for volley, forehand or backhand. So the language does tend to be fairly similar. I remember my wife and youngest son thinking it was hilarious when I was using the word loopy a little bit in commentary, as in a loopy forehand as a way of just trying to give the idea that this was not a flat trajectory, that the ball was being given a little bit of air and that really tickled them. But I think generally... Snooker loopy, yeah. Snooker loopy, maybe that's where it came from. Generally it's harder to be super creative with your language actually when you're describing the points.

Americanisms, Connor, so I was looking up in a book that I absolutely love, I've mentioned it before, which really connects to our glossary. The journalist Tom Williams has written a book, it's been out for a while, called Do You Speak Football? And it's football lingo from around the globe. So I was just looking up USA, because obviously you're over there at the moment, and we're there next summer for the World Cup. Apparently postage stamp over there, kind of in the MLS in the USA, upper 90 because it's the 90 degree angle. I like it. Yeah, but I've never heard that.

90, yeah, yeah. No, I do like it. I mean, it's, it's, it, the, the, the lingo thing is, is very much in evidence. I mean, there's, there's separate commentators from the Club World Cup broadcasting in English for, for, for all of the English speaking world, except America. They've got their own American commentators because of the Americanisms that they, that they use. Our, our old colleague Arlo White used to tell a very funny story when he went over to live and work in America at the

start and his first game, I think he was commenting with the Seattle Sounders, and his first game this gentleman who hadn't been introduced to him right before kickoff came and sat immediately beside him in the commentary box, which as we all know would never happen, just someone would just come and sit directly beside you and he was tempted to sort of, excuse me mate, would you like move down a little bit or whatever. But this guy was the most important guy to broadcast because he would hand over the advertisement cards

during the game. So the first ball went out for a corner, Arlo was handed this note. And I believe this was a verbatim quote. He said, this corner kick is brought to you by Dr. Dom's teeth whitening. So at least we don't have to worry about that in the BBC. No I'm quite envious in many ways because I've always wanted to deliver one of those lines and we do

certainly hear some of our colleagues who are commentating on USopen.org during the US Open Championships in August and September with with similar references. Here's an Americanism that winds me up in football and it is now picked up, I notice, on domestic TV coverage. I'm sure you've noticed it. The substitutes no longer come on and off, but they go in and out. Have you noticed that? Yes, it's a good point.

It's terrible. Standards are slipping everybody. You're out of the game. Yeah, you're in, you're out rather than on and off. That's a very Americanism. That is. The other one I found in the book, Connor, from America, Yeah, you're in, you're out, rather than on and off. That's a very Americanism, yeah. That is. The other one I found in the book, Conor, from America, apparently if you're warming the bench,

so we would say warming the bench or sitting on the bench, riding the pine, apparently. Which I quite like. I really like this, you know, and I know they're traditionalists who feel, you know, we can't do this, Americanism's coming in, but stuff like that, I've never heard that expression before, I immediately know what it means, and it, you know, I like't if this Americanism is coming in, but stuff like that. I've never heard that expression before. I immediately know what it means.

And it, yeah, you know, I like it. I like it. Just on the way the Americans approach things, I always remember my parents telling me this story, Russ, about tennis commentary, the great Dan Maskell, you know, famous Wimbledon commentator for many, many years, such an incredibly iconic, distinctive voice. But a brilliant television commentator because he only spoke, didn't he Russ, when he felt the time was called for otherwise he would let the action play out.

So apparently one of the American broadcasters were telling their audience, so they're broadcasting in the USA and their listeners, their viewers had heard about the great Dan Maskell and so they switched over to BBC coverage to give them a taste of what this Dan Maskell guy was all about. And as they switched over, my parents tell me, there was a rally, there must have been a sort of 35 shot rally and a player sort of scurrying across the baseline, getting it back down the line, cross-court, whatever. Dan Maskell doesn't say a thing. So you've got like a minute and a half, 90 seconds, two minutes of absolutely nothing. The point eventually gets won with a ripping forehand down the line. There's a load of applause and Dan Maskell just says, oh I say. And then they cut back to the American studio and that was all

they got of Dan Maskell. But that, I mean that's how to do it though Russ on telly. That is how to do it on telly and we are much more disciplined than the Americans and I would say other nationalities in television commentary that it's very much frowned upon in the UK if you are commentating for television on tennis and you actually utter a single word or syllable during the point. I was listening to some of the French commentary at the French Open on TV a few weeks ago and they are more excitable than we are. I wouldn't say they keep up a running commentary on the point like the Americans might do at the US Open where they will sometimes continue to have a conversation as the point is being

played. But that natural excitement is allowed to spill out. So you might get in the middle of a fantastic 25 shot rally a few oulalas or oulavash because they're just so excited about what they're watching. But I've actually done virtually no TV commentary on tennis, but that is certainly one of the rules. You may well not be asked back if you talk over the points. It's probably the key difference, isn't it, between TV and radio commentary. That sort of, you know, on radio, you often have to state the bleeding obvious

because you are the eyes of the listener. And yet, and Ali, I do think you are one of the masters of this, is there are certain times in radio commentary where you say, right, I'm just going to say nothing now and you'll know by the reaction of the crowd or whatnot as what's just happened. That's a good ABB tactic that's worked to good effect, but you've got to choose those moments. You know, you can't do that too often. It's got to be a really big moment that you know that everyone listening gets it and understands the significance, the jeopardy, and then allow

the crowd to tell them. But in the main, we sort of do have to shoehorn ourselves in at that moment where you want it just to be an organic, natural noise. But because the listener at home driving in their car or sitting in their living room, they need us to jump in and sort of spell out exactly what's happened. So getting that balance is, I guess, part of the fun. Yeah, and it's important not to say too much, isn't it, when you've got an expert or a professional alongside you. If you give too much of your own opinion or assessment, perhaps of why a player played a shot, then you lose time to do exactly what you said, Connor.

Remembering you are the eyes of the listener so it's very much during the match a descriptive process and then hopefully you have a highly decorated former player alongside you who can just produce that little bit of extra colour. Russ were you made aware that you might have to play a game of Clash of the

Commentators today? I was not. Oh wow! Dropped in at the deep end right. From a great height. Okay. Get closer to the action with live commentary from the world's greatest sporting events on BBC Sounds.

It is all over. Balls, cross edge, ball behind. Including Cricket, Super League, Women's Euros 2025, Wimbledon, Formula One and much more. It's all eyes to the lights, adding foot to the floor. Drop shot, winner! On five Sports Extra, Sports Extra 2 and Sports Extra 3. Listen, only on BBC Sounds. The commentator's view on the Football Daily daily podcast BBC Radio 5 live.

Clash of the commentators Russ, I think you probably know how much I like my silly games. Connor and I have had a game of this this season Russ on an earlier episode where it actually finished 0-0. Neither of us got an answer correct. I can assure you that won't happen today. So this is a little game basically. I'm going to give you two a category. One of you will go first, the other one will take their headphones off so they can't listen. You're going to get 30 seconds to rattle off as many answers as you can. The person who gets the most wins.

And it's, you know, I'm going to put my neck on the line. I'm going to make Russell favourite here and that is nothing against you, Connor. I'm just looking at the category today and I'm just going to make Russell a slight favourite today. Who would like to go first? Who would like to play first? Well I'll let Russell go first. Okay, Connor you unplug. I'll unplug. Connor unplugs over in the States. This is an exhibition match obviously after the culmination

of our league campaign. Absolutely no pressure on this. this is just about entertaining the fans. So, Russell, going along with the themes of today's podcast, we are looking for any Club World Cup finalists since the competition started in the year 2000. I can see a slight look of panic on your face, don't worry. My goodness me, this is the competition that's been at the complete margins of the football calendar for the last 25 years. And or, you'll like this, any Wimbledon gentlemen's or ladies singles champion in the 21st century, so also since 2000. So anyone that's won the men's singles or the women's singles. But I have to do the football one, do I? No, you can do whatever you like. This is it.

This is why I'm making you slight favourite. Oh, I see. That seems like a big advantage, doesn't it? Let's see. Let's wait and see. Let's wait and see. So, your time starts now. Okay, well I'm going to start with the football then.

Let's go for River Plate. Let's go for Inter Milan. Let's go for Juventus, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. And then we will switch to tennis for a little bit. And let's have Roger Fedorovic, Jovovich, Rafael Nadal, Andy Murray, Carlos Alcaraz. And if we switch to the women's, let's have Serena Williams, let's have Venus Williams, let's have Simona Halep. And let's go back to football. Do I need someone from Oceania? They will never have won it, will they? So let's go for Mam football. Do I need someone from Oceania? They will never have won it, will they?

So let's go for Mamlody Sundowns. That, that I think is the best performance. In terms of total number of correct answers, that is going to be the best performance we have ever had, Russ. That was unbelievable. I can't even believe you went for football to begin with, but I've counted up already. In fact, I won't tell you. Let's see how Connor gets on. But I can assure you, I absolutely, I'm going to bet my house on the fact that Connor doesn't beat you here. Honestly, no chance. Yeah, well, let's see. I'm going to take my headphones out now and I'm going to show you the headphone pin so you know I'm not. I don't need to do it.

No, no, no, Russ, you can listen. I don't need to. Of course. No, you can listen, Russ. It's not like Mr. and Mrs. where you go in the booth and put the headphones on all those years ago, is it? My work is done. Right. I'm giving Connor the thumbs up. Good luck with this, Connor. I'm glad I wasn't playing you today, Russ.

I was initially up to play you as well. I'm back. God for that. Right. Connor, here we go. I could see in the video screen, I could see Russell talking a lot. So there was a lot of answers being given. That's that's so intimidating. Were they correct answers or not? OK, we will find out. Right. right Connor going with the themes of today's podcast

We are looking for today any Club World Cup finalists since the competition started in the year 2000 so anyone that played in the final didn't have to win it could be a runner-up and or any Wimbledon gentlemen's or ladies singles champions since the year 2000? Anyone that's won the men's singles or the women's singles or played in the Club World Cup Final? I was literally thinking like I'm thinking of all my childhood ones and then as soon as you said since 2000. Yeah, Borg's not cutting it I'm afraid. Yeah, I'm gonna really struggle for this. Your time starts now. Yeah, I'm going to really struggle for this.

Your time starts now. Okay, Club World Cup finals, so Manchester City, AC Milan, Palmeiras, Al-Aqli, Yokohama, whatever they're called, Real Madrid, Inter-Untis, and then I'm going to rattle off some tennis people, so I'm going to say Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Djokovic, Alcaraz. Oh, I thought there was one more tennis person coming in there. Right, Connor, I make it, and they'll be counting these up in the studio as well. I make it, you've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,

which considering you and I had a nil nil draw earlier in the season is a darn good score. I'd love to know what the topic was when the nil nil draw was played out. It was outrageous. I'm still angry about it. It was no, Russ, it was impossible. It was something like people had scored three kicks in the Champions League. Directly something like that. It was so niche.

And nil nil draws can be entertaining, as we well know. This one wasn't. Connor, I'm afraid to say though, nine not cutting it. Honestly, I've never seen a better performance. So Russ got, to my mind, got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight Wimbledon champions, but also nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen I make sixteen correct answers. Wow. Eight and eight. Wipes the floor. There's a lot of clubs that have taken part in the World Club Cup Final. 29 different finalists 21 Wimbledon champions since

2000 so. Because I basically just I just threw big football names at Ali, Connor when you weren't listening, along with Mamalodi Sundowns but perhaps they never have one or been in the final. That was incorrect. I tried to think of answers, you should just just blurt out names, that's probably the best tactic. Yeah well on a scatter gun approach and that's why so Russ I'll just tell you very quickly and our listeners will know this, in our league table this season this tends to be, it's basically been a triangular series all season between me, Ian Dennis and John Murray. But John refuses to go for the scatter gun approach because that is against his tidy mind, he only wants correct answers. So he very slowly

and deliberately picks out three brilliantly correct answers and then gets thrashed by me and Denno who just rattle off a load of rubbish but sort of hit the target with four or five of them. Very much in keeping with the man I know. Absolutely right. John did not get where he is today by rattling off rubbish. That's true. That takes me on very nicely to a reminder of our live show in a week's time, it's just a week's time away now, in Sheffield city centre Friday the 4th of July from 3 o'clock in the afternoon. This is all part of the

BBC Sounds Fringe at the Crossed Wires podcast festival next weekend. John and Ian will be on stage and well over 300 tickets have already been snapped up. So head to crosswires.live, crosswires.live to reserve your seat right now they are completely free and just a reminder entry on the day is first come first served even with a ticket so do arrive early to avoid disappointment and as I was mentioning earlier we definitely want your suggestions for the great glossary of football commentary at the live show so email us at tcv at bbc.co.uk at 3 o'clock Friday the 4th of July in Sheffield details at crossedwires.live. Just before we get onto the glossary we've had a few on malapropisms. I'm a big fan of malapropisms

in our household. Russ are you? Yeah, very much here for that. Okay, good. Here we go. This one comes... Connor, you might have some of these actually in front of you. I don't know. Have you got any of the emails written down? So Chelsea Fan Lewis from WIU says, Go on. Hi guys. Love the commentators view podcast this year. Every episode's been fantastic.

I'm not sure if the below would officially qualify as a malapropism, but it's brilliant nonetheless. He says, while studying at Lockborough University, and he says it was a good 10 years ago now, a good friend of mine announced to the rest of our housemates, there was five of them, that he was going to go to the gym and then head to the library.

Before we could reply, he followed the above statement with kill a pigeon with a stone. Clearly that statement raised some alarm bells until we realized that he meant kill two birds with one stone in reference to attending the gym and going to the library in one trip out and he says he still laughs about it today. So kill a pigeon with a stone not heard that version of us before? Yeah my favorite one of these is someone who wouldn't say boo to a ghost rather than boo to a goose which is just an absolute classic.

Nick in Australia who apparently doesn't want me to do my Australian accent so I'm not going to do that. I had a colleague that instead of saying for all intents and purposes would say for all intensive purposes. All the best from Down Under and Tottenham Fan Gareth in Seattle. Hi guys, enjoyed the pod the other day especially the bit on malapropisms, which my wife Holly is well known for. Her friends even call them now Hollyisms. One of her best was when she was still at school and told her parents that when she died she didn't want to be buried, she wanted to be crucified instead, rather than cremated. So, yes, any of those.

It's funny when there's a kind of a Freudian element to it, you know, where you sort of you intentionally say something that's even stronger. The Intensive Purposes things, I think definitely by younger life I might have grappled between the two of those. They might have, you know, interchanged from time to time. The football game that's damp squid, I always like as well because you still hear that nowadays. I love damp squid. Right, let's do the glossary before we say goodbye. So yeah,

these are football specific commentary terms but as we've been discussing, I mean great touch for a big man, you see quite often Russell, we get to this part of the pod, people suggest them, we put them in the glossary and then people who are fans of other sports get in touch and say you can't have that in a football specific glossary because what would you genuinely say in tennis great touch for a big man I can hear that I think yeah but again it would be slightly sarcastic because it always brings a smile to my face and I don't think I would use it with a straight face but I've heard that I think you say it knowingly knowing that it's sort of a football term yeah and is it yeah I suppose it is a football term is it is

that where it originally I think so yeah think so. Yeah. I'm prepared to answer that. Even in other sports like rugby or whatever, to me, the good touch for a big man thing is that almost the distance between the brain and the foot and how they were able to coordinate those two from such a long range. And, you know, but rugby, your hands, that's always closer, that that wouldn't sort of adapt as much. Go on, Ali. I love the fact you've said that, Connor. You are totally in tune with the listeners here. Helen got in touch, tcv at bbc.co.uk. She says, in response to the phrase, good touch for a big man in the great glossary of football terms, I thought you'd enjoy

this little phrase that my granddad used to roll out during rugby, but I think it could still be used in football. If a forward player or any taller player in rugby put in a poor kick, my granddad would say, his brain is too far from his feet it always made me chuckle maybe you could include a sub-chapter in the book in your glossary to include little sayings that have been passed down families over the years keep up the fantastic work that is Helen who is en route to Venice so last time out we added to our glossary

uh... he has a thrutney bit head or a 50p head which I think that is that is football specific I don't think anyone's taking that out yeah and put it in the mixer I think that can be used in other sports surely can it you know can you I can see a quarterback in American football the other launching a Hail Mary putting in the mixer yeah but then that's the Hail Mary yeah but you know yeah or in basketball you know just sort of pumping it forward putting it in the mix oh I don't know like in hockey can you not put it in the mix? I mean I'm just you know as you know I'm a contrarian for these things Ali, I

enjoy the debate about it more than the game itself. We took out, opened his account, so opened his account was in the glossary and then got removed and I think that's correct, that can be used in other sports. I mean would you say Russell at Wimbledon if someone gets a comfortable first round win opens their account? Yes, or wins a first game of a match maybe. I think that definitely is not football specific. I think you are right to strike that from the records. Okay, can you turn on a sixpence in tennis?

Would you ever use that? I think you could, again. I mean I don't think I've ever used it. Because it's a bit of a cliché, isn't it? I don't really like clichés. He said, with a real superiority in his voice. We're dealing with a higher calibre of commentator today, Ali. He doesn't lure himself to this level. No, a bit of a cliché, that one. Don't like that one very much. But this glossary, Russell, I think very dangerously treads the line of these phrases that we use all the time that sort of, you know, do drift into into cliches.

But sometimes as Connor always tells me, they are just apt for the moment. They are the thing to say, aren't they, Connor? And they describe perfectly in very few words exactly what you're trying to say. I make no apologies for using a cliche. I mean, I think I think we are trying to use a, you know, conserve the number of words that we are using to convey the message. And the reason cliches became popular in the first place is that by using two or three words, they tell you instantly what three or four sentences would be needed to describe.

Is leaps like a salmon in the glossary? I think it is. But then, tennis court Russ, could you leap like a salmon to get an overhead to get smashed? Yes, again, maybe not not football specific but anybody using that in the Wimbledon commentary box will be given their marching orders I can tell you. Maybe that's another reason Connor you and I never made it. I think they've been polite saying they lost the team. Yeah exactly. Eric's gets in touch this is similar to turns on a sixpence first time writing

in warm greetings to you from Los Angeles, California. As I listen to a great many football podcasts, yours has quickly become a top, top, top favorite. While you were discussing the merits of turning on a Sixpence for entry to the football glossary, my mind shifted the opposite way. As it occurred to me, I occasionally hear players described as having the turning radius of an aircraft carrier

or some such lumbering vessel. At separate times I've heard this used to describe Harry Maguire and late career Casimiro. Keep up the great work. I mean that's along the same lines Connor isn't it? Turns is an ocean liner I would use. Look it's definitely you're having a little dig at the player, you're having a laugh at their expense, you're suggesting that this very toned professional athlete for some reason has difficulty in swiveling quickly and has to turn in a wide arc. But again, going back to what we said about cliches and how they're effective for radio

commentary, if a ball is played over the top and if you say, you mentioned Harry Maguire, Harry Maguire turns like an aircraft carrier as the nippy winger gets in behind him, by just that little phrase, you've completely painted the picture for people at home rather than having to describe any other details. So yeah, I haven't heard the aircraft carrier and putting the word radius in there. I like that. See, I'm a fan of this. Clichés to me aren't sacrosanct.

Build your own little version of it is arguably even better. Russ, what about commentators curse? Do you ever use commentators curse? Yeah, we've used that definitely. I'd have to be guilty of that one. I think it would be in the same bracket though, wouldn't it? In that it is sometimes a little bit obvious, but it's hard to resist when you have just said something which has perhaps derailed the chances of a home hope or whatever it might be. I think quite often you might have a summariser who says something and then completely the opposite happens on the court and they might then use the expression, the commentator's curse.

Ross, the question I want to view is, have you ever been there at the heat of the moment commentating on a big Grand Slam final and if you've been about to say something and said, I don't want to say that because it would be a curse to the commentator, would that ever enter your deliberations? Yeah, I think it's definitely spinning around in your mind, isn't it? That you're thinking you don't want to get too far ahead of yourself here because you know how things can turn around and particularly with a tennis scoring system. If you take the match as a whole, as you know, you can be two sets and five, two up,

and you lose that break of serve advantage, you lose the third set, and the match is running away from you. So I think experience tells you not to make too many definitive statements about what is definitely going to happen. Yeah, the amount of times I've praised a left back or something, it's, oh, he's been so smooth today, his passing has been excellent. You're guaranteed he will pass the ball straight out of play. It just it makes you look bad. So this one obviously can't live in the glossary.

Jez makes this point, tcv at bbc.co.uk. He says I think commentators curse is not exclusive to football. You are right about that Jez. I've heard it frequently in cricket commentary he says especially. Often when a well-set batter is sawn off by an ill-timed comment about how he doesn't look like getting out. Here's Tuffers. Great session so far. Duck it reverse sweep. Two extra cover he doesn't get all of it. I'm just going to be quiet.

It's a nervy looking shot. That was Tuffers. Phil Tuffnell on Test Match Special very nearly doing it to Ben Duckett. I thought that was going to be the wicket actually where he slapped it to extra cover on 149 but it is very easily done in cricket. A couple of new suggestions then for the glossary chaps. This is a good one actually. This goes really well with the theme of today's pod. Stuart says, I've got a suggestion for the glossary.

It's a phrase repeated week in and week out on the touch lines of grassroots football. And the phrase is head tennis. This is turning into a game of head tennis. I've definitely used head tennis. Yeah. Yeah. It's your classic edge of the, it always seems to be around the halfway line as well. It's never really, you know, by the corner flag, it happens, but you know, one centre half heads, it comes back from a midfield or it goes back again. It only needs to happen three times's never really, you know, by the corner flag it happens but, you know, one centre half heads it comes back from a midfielder, it goes back again. It only needs to happen three times and you're into head tellers territory. I think we can give you that one then, can't we? Because even though you are borrowing

the name of the sport I cover, I can't think of any other sport in which you would use that. And last one, this is for you particularly, Connor. Sean from Yeovil. I was on a cruise going from Stockholm to Visby, watching the Nations League final between Spain and Portugal. I heard Conor McNamara himself describing the Portuguese keeper as a sweeper keeper. And I think this should be added to the football glossary. It's a good point that won't come up. I mean, I, I, I like the, the intonation

here that I'm, I've now reached the working on cruise ships part of my career. And, you know, I can imagine myself on stage commentating it to the game. Yeah sweeper keeper that's definitely a term that I've heard used that I do use again I like it there's an economy of language there where you know in two words you can you can describe everyone knows exactly what's happened there is the keepers come out of his penalty area to kick the ball away and I'm just yeah I don't think I mean there's so few other sports that have a keeper to start with. I mean, in hockey, can you have a sweeper keeper? No, they don't come out and play like the goalkeepers. Of course, they've all the

gear on. Yeah. They're like, they're not going to come, you know, bounding out of the area. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that gets my vote into the glossary. Great. Russ's, you know, Wimbledon coverage on the way, wall to wall across the BBC, but we're particularly focusing on Five Live. Do you think we could build a tennis glossary? Do you think that will go down well with the producers for the next couple of weeks? We could run it over the fortnight, couldn't we, and see how many legitimate entries we have by the end of the championships. I think it would be more of a slow burn than the football one, to be honest. But I'm game if everyone else is. I bet you it's one of those that when you stop and think about it, there's so many that you'll

just routinely use and then when you stop and think, actually, we only say that in tennis, you'd probably be surprised. Yeah, I can hear John McEnroe getting involved in that on 6 Love 6 actually. I'm also now going to be very, very self-conscious when I'm trying to describe this year's Wimbledon singles finals, because suddenly I'll say something and think, think goodness me you wouldn't say that in any other sport would you? Also you know Connor and I are going to be listening and we will leap on anything that even remotely resembles a cliche we're gonna be all over you Russ. Five live commentaries over the next week so Wimbledon starts Monday and

Russell will be there throughout obviously but in terms of your five live football commentaries over the next week, so Saturday 8 o'clock we've got the final of the under-21 European Championship that is England defending their crown. They're in the final again they're taking on Germany. The commentary will come live from Slovakia. John Murray and Stephen Warnock who've been doing the entire tournament together. Sunday at 5 o'clock, England's women are playing Jamaica at the King Power Stadium, so that is their final warm-up before the Euros, the defence of their crown in Switzerland this summer. And then next week, the start of Euro 2025 for England's women. The tournament starts Wednesday the 2nd of July, 5 o'clock kickoff,

Iceland against Finland. You'll find that on BBC Sounds on Sports Extra 2. And then Wednesday at 8 o'clock, the hosts Switzerland host Norway. That game will be on 5 Live with Vicky Sparks and Izzy Christiansen. Thursday the 3rd of July, 8 o'clock, 5 Live commentary Spain Portugal. And then England and Wales in the same group at the tournament So Saturday the 5th of July big day women's euros 5 o'clock Wales Netherlands and 8 o'clock France England both live on 5 live and it is where the sounds app during the summer I find particularly with the cricket and the tennis and the football and the golf and everything absolutely Comes into its own when you're out and about. Make sure you're listening to our commentaries. Russ, is it you're funny enough, I was at Twickenham

a couple of weeks ago presenting alongside Chris Jones for the Gallagher Premiership final, this sort of showpiece domestic game at the end of the season and Chris said to me that actually that was his favourite day of the year almost. Is Wimbledon your absolute favourite? Is it your favourite couple of weeks of the year? Yes, it is the best two weeks of the year, but you will not be surprised to know that there are a lot of upsides in going to Melbourne in January to cover the Australian Open,

and all of the Grand Slams are very, very special, and I still get very excited about them when they come around. I probably in some ways maybe the first day of the slams are the best days and particularly at Wimbledon which is now the only one of the slams that plays the first round over two days with a Monday start so on that first Monday at Wimbledon you've got 64 singles matches and the forecast this year looks like it's going to be fantastic. That is really really exhilarating and perhaps with the anticipation of what's to come over the next couple of weeks

that that is perhaps the most enjoyable day of the tennis year. The finals are amazing, the chance to describe any Grand Slam final is incredible but there is a lot of fatigue by the end of the fortnight whereas you are relatively fresh on day one. Connor, very quickly, what's next for you? So Chelsea, you've got through, so I'm back up to Charlotte, which is baking hot for Chelsea's game. Then we're gonna go into the knockout stages. I've got a couple of more games here in Orlando,

and then I move on to New York, which is hosting both the semi-finals and the finals. So I'm very much looking forward to that. And then, Ali, as you'll be well aware, that the the club World Cup is on a finals on a Sunday and I'm very looking forward on the Wednesday to go to Port-Russia and seeing you at the Open so absolutely can't wait for that. Yes I look forward to seeing you there. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one is going to be Maisie Adams Euros fan diary. As for the commentators view

you can find each and every episode Right from the start of the series on the football daily feed and do remember to put your Sheffield live show tickets on the internet crossed wires dot live thanks for listening Well, I loved about it was I mean Connor obviously couldn't hear you doing it But the very fact you went on to Connor's territory just whacking into loads of football teams First before then just plucking off the easy towns just fantastic yeah very good yeah very good Russ. Football a game of passion rivalry and loyalty but decades ago beneath the cheers and the chance lay a different kind of warfare called hooliganism. On a match day everyone was your enemy everyone was gonna kill you. We look over the

brutal bloody battles where punching below the belt was a way of life. It was just a day of mayhem. It's a day you dream of. Join me, Tony Bellew, as we hear from those bruising for a fight in the name of the firms that they belong to. We hated them, we hunted them, we battered them, and nothing got in the way of football. Something they called the English disease. They were destroying the football club, the game I love. Gangster Presents Hooligans. Listen on BBC Sounds.