Football Daily - The Debrief: Arsenal miss chance to go eight clear with Liverpool draw

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Steve Crossman is joined by Stephen Warnock, Andros Townsend, Michael Brown and Alistair Bruce-Ball reacting to Arsenals 0-0 draw against Liverpool. Arsenal are six points clear at the top of table while Liverpool stay fourth, eight points behind third-placed Aston Villa. Hear from Mikel Arteta and Liverpool boss Arne Slot who is asked about the incident when Gabriel Martinelli attempted to push Conor Bradley off the pitch after he had gone down injured. The team also discuss Manchester United and what does the ‘DNA’ of the club really mean. Plus Brentford fan Michael Johnston gives an insight into why Brentford get it so right with their recruitment and is Keith Andrews manager of the season so far?Timecodes: 01:00 Arsenal 05:25 Mikel Arteta 07:30 Decent point for Liverpool? 08:45 Arne Slot 14:00 United ‘DNA’ 26:30 Brentford & Keith AndrewsCommentaries this week: Fri 9th Jan - FA CUP: Wrexham v Nottingham Forest 1930 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Fri 9th Jan - FA CUP: Preston North End v Wigan 1930 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sat 10th Jan - WSL: Arsenal v Manchester United 1230 - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Macclesfield Town v Crystal Palace 1215 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Everton v Sunderland 1215 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Wolves v Shrewsbury Town 1215 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 3 Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Fulham v Middlesbrough 1500 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sat 10th Jan - A CUP: Manchester City v Exeter City 1500 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Newcastle v Bournemouth 1500 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 2 Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Stoke City v Coventry City 1500 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 3 Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Spurs v Aston Villa 1745 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Bristol City v Watford 1745 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Cambridge United v Birmingham City 1745 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 2 Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Grimsby Town v Weston-super-mare 1745 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 3 Sat 10th Jan - FA CUP: Charlton v Chelsea 2000 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sun 11th Jan - FA CUP: Derby County v Leeds United 1200 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sun 11th Jan - FA CUP: Portsmouth v Arsenal 1400 KO - LIVE ON 5 LIVE Sun 11th Jan - FA CUP: West Ham v QPR 1430 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA Sun 11th Jan - FA CUP: Norwich City v Walsall 1430KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA 2 Mon 12th Jan – FA CUP: Liverpool v Barnsley 1945KO – LIVE ON 5 LIVE SPORT

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. On the Football Daily podcast, The Debrief, with Steve Crossman. Hello there, welcome to The Debrief.

We've got Stephen Warnock and Ross Townsend, and Michael Brown all withers. Arsenal drew nil-0 with Liverpool to go six points clear at the top of the Premier League table. Liverpool stay fourth. They are eight points behind third place, Aston Villa. Let's start with the story of the game. Ali Bruce Ball is at the Emirates?

Liverpool has stopped Arsenal scoring in both league games against them this season. Arsenal sits six points clear at the top of the Premier League, ahead of Manchester City in Aston Villa. Closest we came to a goal was Connor Bradley's chip that came back off the crossbarrow. in the first half. And actually talking about the success of Frimpong down the right for Liverpool in that second half, had his cutback been a little bit better

to Florian Vietz, then possibly Liverpool might have been able to find themselves a winner. That's only the second time at home in the league this season that Arsenal have dropped points, drew against Manchester City, they've drawn against Liverpool tonight, they couldn't find a way through.

And I think, Stephen, and the guys have been saying, an encouraging performance from Liverpool as well. We hope Connor Bradley is going to be okay. Arsenal, Neil Liverpool, nil. By the way, he should score, Stephen. He should. He misses it. It hits him in the chest, I think.

Yeah. That's a big, big opportunity. He does really well to sort of get out the pack. He loses Sober's line, then he... Yeah, to poor Heather, that's a big opportunity. It's huge, isn't it? And one person, you're looking at the back post, you're going, where is he?

Arriving, right on cue, the technical area. There's no way anywhere. Set a piece coach. Go to the knees, going, how has he knocked? Is it one of those moments? where you see it and it's the last second he just tries to

get too much on it. Just waiting for it to drop on. It's some sort of mid-drift. That's a massive chance gone right at the end. I was going to say something really cynical and I'm not going to. Are you sure?

Yep. You've still got time. Nope. I'm quite happy about the set piece coach. I'm glad they didn't score. He drives me mad. It was quite... Get back on your seat and sit down.

You've done your work on the training ground. It's just so infuriating. I don't know if you saw, but it was quite an emotional reaction from Arsenal set-piece coach. Yes, I've just seen that on the replay. I sort of had that in the corner of my eye. I was trying to work out exactly where Gabriella made the contact with the ball

and then where it had gone, our commentary position, our lower commentary position here, everyone stands up when Arsenal have a chance at that end. So you're sort of straining to try and get a view there. But yeah, looking at it on the replay, that is a great chance and exactly the person you wanted to fall to at the end of the game and that, you know, the kind of ones that he's been sticking away, not only this season but the last few seasons

but still as I say six points clear at the top of the Premier League another tough game ticked off 17 games to go and Arsenal have come through that that run of four games in two weeks with three wins and a draw against Liverpool so I don't think they'll be too dissatisfied with that Nicholas Javert isn't it is the

the Arsenal set piece coach I mean you say Gabriel is the one you would want it to fall to and I would agree but actually when the ball went out for a corner Michael you started doing the Yockeresh goal celebration in the studio which was unexpected it? Well, I was just looking, I was thinking, surely not,

I put me my hands over my eyes, looking through, going, Steve, this is it. I said there could be a late drama. But Ali, he had been subbed off by that point. Ali, when we talked about the nil-nil, that was in the writing one. I'm sure Mr. Southall's going to be sending a few messages out to you,

saying, you've brought us no drama tonight. But there was late drama, wasn't there? He had to score there. Big opportunity. But the title race, is that, is it back on now? Is it? Well, nobody ever said it was on, did they? Well, we're all saying if they'd won it, was it off?

Wait, six points. That's what we were saying, eight. I mean, you go, but I know this is a completely different Arsenal squad, but three seasons ago. So Arsenal finished second for the last three seasons. Three seasons ago, the first time they sort of had a proper tilt at against Manchester City. I remember them being eight points clear like they could have gone tonight with fewer games left. City did have a game in hand and they still had to play City. I think they only won three of their last nine Arsenal.

This is a different Arsenal squad. The next time it happened the next season, Arsenal won six. Arsenal won 16 of their last 18 games but Manchester City basically matched them Arsenal lost that game against Villa and then City won their last six to win the title and then Arsenal obviously couldn't live with Liverpool last season I think they've got the squads rink this season

to go closer and I still yeah still I would still say they're my favourites to go on and winning and And Andros that's the difference between that Arsenal team and this Arsenal team is that that Arsenal team lost Salaiba wasn't it? I think it was Salyba not Gabrielle. Yeah, he lost Silebe yeah In a crucial part of the season and they couldn't cope without him, this Arsenal team can? They can. And I think Arsenal have absolutely everything now.

The only question mark is can they get over the line? Do they have the mental scars? Like Ali said, do they have the mental scars over three years ago or two years ago where, if that's true, they won 16 in the last 18 games and still lost a title? They'll be playing on their mind. They'll be thinking that they have to be perfect to be able to win the league over this Man City. side that Pepper's created. So I still have that question mark over that mentality of being able to get over the line

with Manciti chasing them. All right, let's hear from the Arsenal manager then, shall we. Here's Mikhail Arteta. Very tight. You know the margin. How is more they are. I think in the first half, we were the better team. We created some very big situation that we didn't end of finding.

The player in the box to score at least one goal, the second half change. They start to drop a lot of people, so it's very difficult to press them. It's true that they have no threat. in the box at all, so I don't think we considered a single shot. But it's a little bit harder to regain the ball in the right areas, and then with the ball we were very imprecise, rarely unprecise, to sustain more our attack, to generate more momentum in the final thirds and to have better chances.

The first 20 minutes or so, the game, Saka really gave Kerkers a lot of problems, but as you said, just there wasn't maybe that final precision on the ball in the box. Yeah, and that's what, for example, against Villa, that we were exceptional as doing. And when we got into this position, we picked the right player to score. And these are the margins against these teams. And yeah, great to them.

They are very well organized as well. They are very patient when they don't have to press you. And yeah, they have terrific players. They actually the Premier League winners. And obviously they came with a plan here that they were going to basically be very, very disciplined, quite pragmatic in the game from front to back. They were more about keeping you out

than trying to score a goal. Yes, obviously, and they have a lot of midfielders and they can occupy very different spaces and move very far from your organization. We knew that, and that's what we expected. That's actually what happened, but there are things that we should have done better in many areas to have more threat and to score goals.

But obviously, if you can't win a game, the best thing is not to lose it, and you didn't? Yeah, well, because at the end at the end upfield, I think, again, for many parts of the games, we were the better team, and we end up losing it from an incredible shot of solar. So today it was no magic moment, and that was a difference.

Let's finish back on Liverpool then. In the Premier League table, there are four 35 points after the draw tonight at Arsenal. Villa above them on 43. City also have 43 and then Arsenal have 49. Positive performance, Stephen. But then this is a Liverpool team who've beaten Newcastle, Villa, Arsenal earlier in the season, Real Madrid.

We've seen them look okay in these kind of games. So yes, if you're a Liverpool fan, you want this to be a building block or you want it to be a turning point, but does anything you've seen tonight make you think, oh, well, they're going to blow Burnley away in their next game there?

Because those are the kind of games they can't handle. Yeah, I thought they were superb tonight. I thought to a man, everyone played well and contributed to the performance of the team. I think they stood the ground in the first half. We talked about the tactics of how they played. They sat behind the ball, sat deep, second half. It's almost like Arna Slot.

saw a few things that he wanted to tweak and he gave the team the license to go and do that. The one thing he'd say is I was just looking at the teams then and the changes. There was only Connor Bradley changed and that was only through injury so it tells you where his squad is at the moment that he doesn't perhaps

really want to make too many changes off the bench, doesn't feel like he's got the players to be able to do that. I think the only player that you would have probably brought on in that game would have been Curtis Jones into that midfield area. Perhaps Ingamowa at some point just to stretch them

but you wouldn't want a youngster to make a mistake or lose the ball in a certain area in a game of that magnitude. But I thought from Liverpool's point of view that was arguably one of the best performances I've seen from them. And we can get some Liverpool reaction with head coach on a slot.

Maybe this season we are a bit more used to that discipline of Arsenal than of us because we've not always had this discipline but I think in all the big games we've played except for the City Away game where there was of course a bit of course a big mistake just before half-time, otherwise we would have gone at half-time-one. We've showed in every big game that we're still a team that can compete with any other team.

Playing Arsenal now twice, beat them at Enfield, now a draw, tells you that we are able to compete with them in a game, but not throughout this season because we've struggled so much against certain playing styles, making it so difficult for us to unlock it. And I've said many times that one of the difference is 20 goals of set-piece difference. I thought over two games against Arsenal, you're probably going to be the only team who can say you played Arsenal twice without conceding a goal this season. How do you achieve that?

Disciplined, because they're a very good team from open play. You need to defend discipline. You cannot give away too many set-pieces because you could even saw today maybe their biggest chance was in the 95th minute when they had a corner kick. So yeah, if you concede more than three, it's really hard not to concede against them. But we kept them to free so that helped. And a disciplined performance defensively.

And I think on the ball we showed in the first half in some spells already how good we can play on the ball. Our biggest chance of the game were so many passes in a row before it ended up on the bar. And in the second half, we, I think, dominated ball position. But again, found it quite hard from all. the moments we were in promising positions to create big chances. Just finally a little sour note at the end. Obviously an injury to Connor Bradley.

Tell us if you can yet what the early prognosis on that is. But also the reaction of Martinelli, which really for a fellow pro didn't seem right. No, but I think if I ask Martinelli after the game, if he thought he would have had the injury which we suspect he has, he would never done that. so that we have to take into account. It's a player that wants to win that game and so many times probably he's seen in other moments where other teams are doing time wasting

and pretending if a player is injured. I cannot ask from him in these emotions that he thinks, oh, we are playing Liverpool. They usually don't do this, so maybe I should take care of him. I watch so much football. I see so many times in the last minutes of games players pretending to be injured. So I have to take this.

that into account to Martinelli's reaction, but of course if he knows that he might have the injury, which we think he might have, then he would have never done that, that I'm sure about. And what injury do you fear that it may be? We don't know yet, but it was, I think, quite clear and obvious that he has something because if you have to go off with a stretcher, you expect him to have a serious injury, but it's impossible, of course, to say what he has, because therefore first we have to what do you say is in English? Make a scan

or whatever these kind of things Yeah Yeah yeah It was solid wasn't it It was an away performance With grit determination They didn't have the ball

Really in the first half I think what impressed The second half Much more control Yeah Much more ball retention Moving to ground Growing in confidence

And then the wider areas Being behind wherever possible And it's something to go out I think you look Look at The Rex' run of the fixtures Now in the league

I think they've got a nice decent run where you feel like they can get some momentum, gain a bit more confidence, and let's see if they can get some players back. They've been hurt as well with that. But I think overall, I think it'll be a decent point, not to get carried away,

but at the start of the game, when you were looking to say, well, what Liverpool type of team or set up we're going to find? And is it allowed to go and do that in this game? Well, he's answered the question, isn't it? It's an interesting one, isn't it, when you asked that question,

I go back to the question of, does this suit Liverpool style? there's a very apparent problem at Liverpool is when they do dominate the ball against the teams that sit low is that counter-attack that they struggle with if they fix that side of the game

and control that side of it better that'll be so important to Liverpool getting better results this season still in the title race then oh always on the Football Daily podcast the debrief with Steve Crossman to embrace the importance

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On the Football Daily podcast, The Debrief with Steve Crossman. We've got Andros Townsend, Stephen Warnock and Michael Brown, all with us. Let's talk a bit of Manchester United, then, started life post Ruben Amarim with a two-all draw at Burnley last night. Of course, they've got Darren Fletcher in charge for now. And then possibly Oli Gunna Solciar until the end of the season, we will see. Why don't we just start with some positives before we kind of...

Because as soon as you start on Man United, there's kind of no stopping. I thought, Stephen, from a positive perspective, that was not just Benjamin SESCO's best performance, but probably the two best pieces of movement I have seen. from him in a Manchester United shirt. Look like a different player. Yeah, we did a little bit of sort of work with him last night on the match of the day show and looked at what he was good at and what he's bad at.

His link-up play is not great when he's got players in and around him. At times in the first half he was isolated and on his own. I think his awareness of what's around him has to be a little bit better, but he needs players close to him as well. But his movement is superb, off the ball.

In between centrebacks, off the back. He almost, he's always looking to see the number of the defender's shirt. Now when you see the number of a defender's shirt defender can't see you, he's in trouble. You can make any run that you want to make then and he's very good at that side of it. My only argument to it all

would be, and it's not being disrespectful, it was Burnley. And that's the problem. Now you've got to do it week in, week out in the Premier League against the best players and what we've seen is he's not being capable of doing that. But however, with a change of system, with a change of personnel closer to him. I think first half they struggled,

but second half he moved Cunya in behind Chesco, got him closer to him. He moved Bruno Fernandez out and to the right and then he had Dog who off the left hand side. And you've I mean, for me you'd have to get balls into the box quickly for him. Get the ball out wide

and put it in the box. I think Stephen, that's probably the biggest difference I saw against Burnley than in Amarim's era was the amount of crosses they did get into the box. Dogg all night was looking to cross the ball. Bruno Fernandez,

either from the right-hand side or more centrally, he was looking to feed the ball in. Dallow loves to cross the ball. There were so many balls coming into the box for CESCO last night. And like you said, his movement's so good.

He got on the end of more than, he got on the end of the ball on more than a couple of occasions. He got himself a couple of goals as well. But yeah, I think Man United played for their big number nine last night, which they haven't done so far this season before. I think obviously Casamero as well.

He can have that supply line to be able to deliver. You did felt like that Darren Fletcher would make it back to front quicker, a little bit more aggressive wherever he possibly could. Chesco had a great chance in the first half. Inside the left and side of the box, he tried to open his right foot to slide it across, but not really any power. For all his runs he had,

Burnley, when they opened it up, there's going to be more space against him. The next one was really clean, wasn't it? His door gook, crossed the ball in. Lovely finish. We opened that right foot out. Dallow went really high at the stage. the second half. So it opened it,

which allowed Burnley then to have a go, and we know we will be able to punish you. So he's had a very, very slow start, but that should give him confidence, shouldn't it? But what is next for Manchester United? What is going to be the next selection? Bruno Fernandez was key, the supply line. Just wanted to pick up on what Brownie said,

because a lot of the talk from Man United fans was, post-Amarium was, yes, back to 4, 2, 3-1. United are back. It's so much better. But after the first 25, 30 minutes, Manchester United in possession moved into a back three. Dallow was playing high and wide on the right and Shaw was tucking in to make a three with Martinez and Heaven.

So it was pretty much very similar to what Amarin was trying to do anywhere. And a lot of the fans are looking at the graphic, looking at the formation and being like, oh, 4, 2, 3, 1, well, it wasn't. It was pretty much similar to what it was before. Victor Yockech, at Arsenal, hasn't necessarily set the world a light. they're doing really well. Manchester United have not been doing really well.

Has Yockech been any better than Chesco? Or is he just playing in a better team? Well, he's playing in a better team and Brownie's made the point about five times tonight. If you're successful, it takes the pressure off you. And it does he have to do more. Was he bought in to score goals or was he brought in to be a focal point?

Chesco or... Sorry, Gvaj. No. Yuccares. Hey, scores, goals. He's got more than Yoccharej. Yeah, Yockeh. Was he bought in to be that focal point and someone where

you can bounce passes off or to stretch the game at times. He's a different type of striker. Can you be that though, a team that He had to give a bit of all around, Steve. He had to deliver. They've been talking for so long about a number nine that they've needed. Someone who's going to get a good goal record,

effect right along the front line of the pitch. And will we ever convinced? I don't think we ever were that he was going to be a real superstar. No. I think that step up from the Portuguese League was always going to be difficult. I mean, he ran right in that league, didn't he? He was strong. He was

bullish, but then you look at the players that he's going up against and can he do that week in week out in the Premier League? No, he can't. So he's going to have to adapt his game. I think the one thing you would say is that you've got to give them a grace period of settling in and an understanding of how quick the game is, how physical it is. I know he's played in a championship before, but the Premier League's a step up from that. How long?

usually I'd say a year right that's really interesting yeah I think you've got to let them settle and it's not just on the football pitch it's off the football pitch as well you're moving your family if you've got a family to a new location you're trying to settle kids into school if you've got kids you're trying to understand the area

Scott said this about Florian verse didn't he yeah you've got to he has to look at that yeah it's a huge part of it and the way you can accelerate that is the people within the changing room can help that that process so if you've got got a wife, a girlfriend, then you hope that other wives and girlfriends will help them out. The players on the pitch, they try and have group meals, nights out, days out, things like that,

make them get settled as quick as possible. If you can do that, that accelerates that process. I suppose, Andros, what I'm thinking about around Yockeresh particularly, it certainly applies more to him, is there is a lot of discussion about the good things he does off the ball. and there was a goal they scored the other week and I can't remember who it was against when Yockeresh basically sort of takes somebody out of the game for somebody else to score and he got a lot of praise for that

which I understand but I suppose the question is it's kind of a basic question is that enough if you're playing for a team that wants to win the Champions League and might win the Premier League or do you have to have a really good goal record as well? I think you need to have a really good goal record as well but I think with Yoccare's Arsenal scored goals

before he arrived. They were second best in the Premier League for many years before he arrived. I think bringing him in, he's definitely added link-up play. He's definitely added work rate, runs off the ball, hold-up play.

He's definitely added a lot to Arsenal than what they had before. Now it's just that final part. He needs to add the goals as well, but I think it's positive signs. For your first six months in the Premier League coming from Portugal, I definitely think it's positive signs.

Give him a year, give him a year and a half. And I think he'll be that final part and then start adding the goals that a number nine needs to be scoring in the Premier League. If they win the Premier League, effectively, it's worked. Hasn't it? And that's the thing is that... They'll take it all right.

It doesn't matter who's done what, does it really? I think that's the ultimate game. But really, as an overall signing, is he going to be that number nine for the next five, six, seven years? Well, with the money they've spent, yes. But will he be? And I know you were talking about this on, of the day last night, do you think interim is the right call?

And if that is what they're doing, clearly it is what they're doing, of the possible choices they could have, which by the way, could extend beyond Manchester United Legends if they wanted to, within that group is Olli going to Salsi the best choice? No. Right. Danny Murphy said it last night. You've paid him up because he didn't do a good enough job. You've got rid of him because at the end of his time...

He was getting hammered at the end of his time. Exactly. So why suddenly do you think, do you know what we'll do? We'll go and get the guy who couldn't do the job. At what point do you do that? They've got different players now that would be able to play in a different style. Do you know if they've got better forwards now? I don't know.

This is what they're going to be considered. Where was he out in Turkey, Bissikitas? Yes. Didn't do the job there. So has he improved as a manager? So you're going to say, but if he comes in and you go, yeah, well, the players don't quite suit his style of play. You've got to change it. You've got to bring someone else into the changing room,

and you've got to have a different perspective. He wasn't good enough. He didn't do the job. Stephen, two things. I think that the problem Man United have now is they would never have seen this coming. It wasn't like Amarim was on the ropes for a few months. I think it was a disagreement and they've chosen to sack him because of the disagreement and his comments after the game.

So they're pretty much stuck where they've got no sort of short list to work from. So it needs to be an interim. But also. Solskia, of course, he's probably not good enough to be Man United manager. But you talk about he failed. at Manchester United. Him failing at Manchester United was a lot better in terms of league position than they were last season

than they are this season, than they were under Tenhawk. But do you not think everyone's improved Andros in terms of the squads, the players, the managers that are in the Premier League at the moment, it's more competitive. I'm not doubting that for one second, but in terms of soldiers,

qualities, yeah. Yeah, but in terms of his qualities, he's not somebody who's going to take on a Guardiola and over 38 games win the league. But he's someone that will get players on board. He will raise the confidence. He'll get them playing freely. He'll get players.

I think we all get that, Andrews. There will be a reaction. Do you know, yes, there'll be a reaction. And can he turn them into, you know, a little bit better all around, a little bit more progressive? But will it be any different to what Darren Fletcher does? Or Michael Carrary? This is what we're saying.

So, but my point is, do you know what you're saying is they weren't necessarily ready for it? I think there's been a lot of murmuring for some time at Manchester United. Until the owner come out and said, right, I'm backing him for a long period. I'm telling you the other couple of people who are in there will have that short list constantly ready and they have to at all occasions just in case there's that bad run who's at the top of the list

that'll move, that'll rotate but why can we not do it now it's Manchester United and say the discussions lately is because of the summer. It carries the same way saying that. No. Yeah. It's for sure because what's next?

What are they allowed to do? Who's going to control the signings? The manager point... Sorry, I didn't mean that. I mean, when you say Does it carry the same way? It's Manchester United. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't because of the situation they're in. And then my point is, is a manager like Sir Alex Ferguson ran the whole club.

It is different now in football. We have to understand that. But Ruben Amram came out and said, I came here to be manager. That was the stipulation. Now I'm not. So this becomes regarding player recruitment, systems, what's coming next, budget, etc. to be able to strengthen his squad.

and the next person in, we've just seen Chelsea do it, haven't we? And now what will happen with Manchester United, who's going to be that person? And that's going to be the difficult. Thomas Tuchel's been heavily muted,

hasn't he? But that was for the summer. So was he going anyway, Ruben Amram? Yeah, quite possibly. I think it is one of those situations where other managers will become available in the summer and it's going to be a cheaper deal for them. They've just spent, what, 30 or million to get Amarim into the club

and then also pay him off? Yeah. So that is going to be on the PSR as well. They spent a lot of money over the transfer window. So they haven't got an embarrassment of riches Manchester United for an incoming manager. I mean, we've said this many, many times, and we're going to have to say it again.

This is the most important managerial appointment I'll make for years. And it really is this time. Let's talk about one of the feel-good stories of the Premier League season. Certainly if you're a Brentford fan, 3-0 win over Sunderland for them on Wednesday. They are fifth in the Premier League. Two more goals for Igo Tiago. He's now on 16 this season in the league.

Let's speak to Michael Johnston. Brentford fan from the Ealing Road podcast. Evening, Michael. Evening, Steve. How you doing? Very good, thank you. Your side, obviously, have been absolutely brilliant this season. And I know I'm sort of singing to the choir here. But surely Keith Andrews is manager of the season so far, isn't he?

I was definitely up there. I think with all of the outside noise before the season started, it kind of felt like we were dead certs for relegation. I can understand why, right? You lose Thomas Frank, you lose Christian Norghard, your captain, you lose Brian and Boomer and Yomwissa. That's 39 goals. But there was a fair share of Brentford fans

that kind of trusted the people that made the decisions at Brentford. And Matthew Benham is one of the smartest operators in football, and in my opinion has been responsible for one of the best stories in English football over the last decade. And he was the one that chose Keith Andrews to succeed Thomas Frank and its big boots to fill. But, you know, he's filling them at the moment. Fifth in the Premier League,

Sounds lovely. So can you say it again, please, Steve? Brentford, a fifth in the Premier League. The backstory with M. Stephen is really interesting as well, because there's almost a danger that Keith Andrews might not get the credit that he deserves because people look at the model. And the model is so good that they know exactly when to appoint, it seems, who to appoint and when to appoint them. But I think a lot of people looked at Brentford and thought they were massively going to struggle this season.

A lot of people thought they'd go down because of his lack of experience and what his actual know-how was in managerial sense. But he's tucked to it so, so well. The one thing is I played with Keith at Blackburn. He is a brilliant professional that is a knowledge of the game. He is a student of the game. He's one who watches everything that's on. He talks well.

I think he's come across really well in the media. I think he's worked on that side of the game. Matthew Benham is the one that made this decision. and he rarely, the recruitment team and the management structures of Brentford, they rarely get these decisions wrong. So yeah, I think they were raised eyebrows, especially with some of the names that we were linked with. But it's not blind faith.

We have history of losing players. We have history of losing managers. And each time, Brentford have got a way of getting better, which sounds bizarre, but it looks like that's the case. I think fans of English teams love Brazilian players more than players from any other country, apart from the obvious homegrown players. Speaking from experience, is it?

Yes. Come on then. But that is true. Yeah, I knew that was fantastic. But tell me, you guys will have all played. It's the dream, isn't it? Yeah. And Michael, I suspect you're a bit younger than us,

but I think it goes back to like... Thank you, Steve. Not you. Certainly, it's World Cups of the mid-90s and early naughties, where Brazilian teams were amazing. So basically, Michael, what I want to, not you, Brownie, what I want to ask is how it feels to have a Brazilian striker

who's not just the fact that he scored 16 goals this season. That makes him now the highest scoring Brazilian in any Premier League season ever. You can't beat that, can you as a fan? No, no, you can't. The fact that Brentford could have a Brazilian number nine at the World Cup, it's as pinched me as Brentford of fifth in the league. But I think, yeah, Tiago's, been a revelation. I think he can do a bit of everything, which is what I like about him.

We've had Watkins. We've had Tony. I think he's a mixture of both. He can come short and link play. He can be an aerial threat. He can run him behind. He can hold the ball up. And I think the thing that's impressed me the most about him is his progression from the start of the season until now. So I think if you asked a lot of Brentford fans at the start of the season, what they thought Tiago would turn out to be. It wouldn't be a 16 goal striker in January. So yeah, I think he's putting up Harlan-level numbers. It's 16 goals now for him in the Premier League. That's, that's Erling Harlan levels. A lot of fantasy points which Ali will be happy about. And it's such like the Brentford convey a belt of strikers, whether that's Watkins,

Tony, Wissar and Bumo, Mope, Hogan, Gray. We've got something, some sort of special source in our recruitment team because we just keep finding these strikers that put away goals. It's an interesting one, Michael, where there's a little bit of snobbery, shall we say, in Brazil that they think because he plays for Brentford, that he should. shouldn't play for the national team. It's not a big enough team. And I'm thinking, it doesn't matter who you play for. If you're scoring them numbers in the Premier League,

your team's sat in fifth. You're doing something right. If you're in the same league as Erling Harland and the numbers that you're putting away. So I don't understand that argument from the Brazilian press or the Brazilian fans. I just think if you've got a player who's capable there, and I love that what you've just said about, the mixture between Tony and Watkins, it's so true. Because he's capable of doing both sides of the game.

He's a superb player and draft score. Yeah, Michael, I think when Ivan Tony left, a lot of the conversation was around who's going to pick up the slack, who's going to get Brentford's goals. And then Embo and Visser kind of between them, scored a lot of goals last season. And then they were both sold in the same window. Did you worry that the goals were going to dry up as well?

Or did you predict this from Tiago as well? It's just, I made a video earlier and just said, what the time to be alive, the fact that we've lost all these players, we've lost Thomas Frank. And, you know, week on week, it's becoming a little bit more apparent than maybe the reasons behind Thomas Frank's success weren't necessarily him and more the management structures behind him. And yeah, it's just that, you know, Tiago scoring 16 goals.

We've got players playing out their skin each week. Last night was one of the best nights I've had at the G-Tex since moving in, genuinely. The atmosphere was incredible. Quivin Keller saves a Penangra and we go on to win the game 3-0 to move up to 5th. You couldn't write this stuff. So, yeah, it's brilliant at the moment, Steve. Michael, do you know at the end of September, was it the game against Manchester United,

Tiago getting two, where you won 3-1, was that maybe the turning point that gave the squad, the team, the confidence to go forward? Potentially, but to be honest, I think the turning point has come recently because the game against United, if you look at our results at home, kind of was in keeping with that.

We've taken points of Chelsea, we've beaten Liverpool, we've beaten United, Villa, Newcastle, We beat all these big teams at home, but it was the away form that hadn't really followed the same pattern. But I think after the leads draw, we just kind of kicked into gear away from home. The performance at Everton, I don't know if you guys saw it, but we were electric that day. We were really, really good. And I know that Everton have lost a few games at home quite badly, but it was the first time I'd seen us play so aggressively and so shudged bravery away from home this season.

So the home form's never been a problem. But I would say, if you're asking me about a turning point, that's definitely in recent weeks because we're starting to see consistent performances. And one more time for you, Michael, Brentford, our fifth in the Premier League. Michael Johnson there from the Ealing Road podcast. All right, that's it from us. Big thank you to Ali, Stephen, Andros and Michael. On the next episode of the Football Daily podcast, it is The Commentator's View. As always, thank you so much for listening.