Football Daily - The Debrief: Carrick confirmed at Manchester United & City control League Cup semi-final

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Kelly Cates is joined by former Newcastle forward Dwight Gayle, former Scotland winger Pat Nevin and senior football commentator Ian Dennis at St James' Park as Manchester City take a two-nil lead into the second leg of the League Cup semi-final. Antoine Semenyo scores his second goal in his first two games for Manchester City but is denied a brace on the night by VAR. Football Issues Correspondent Dale Johnson tells us why that was chalked off.With Michael Carrick announced as Manchester United's head coach until the end of the season and Steve Holland and Jonathan Woodgate brought into his backroom, reporter Simon Stone joins the pod to discuss the appointment. BBC Sport's Football Tactics correspondent Umir Irfan offers how Carrick's style at Middlesborough may be implemented in his new role. Plus, Football Correspondent John Murray previews Chelsea against Arsenal in Wednesday's League Cup semi-final first leg. Timecodes: 0'20 Michael Carrick appointed at Manchester United 17'05 Umir Irfan on Carrick's tactics 22'42 Reaction to Newastle United 0 Manchester City 2 34'31 Pep Guardiola 40'20 Eddie Howe 42'18 Chelsea v Arsenal preview

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Ian Dennis, Pat Nevin and Dwight Gale are all with us for this episode of the Football Daily. Shortly before kickoff, Manchester United confirmed the appointment of Michael Carrick as head coach until the end of the season. Steve Holland and Jonathan Woodgate had been brought in as part of the backroom staff. BBC Sport Manchester United reporter Simon Stone joins us now.

Not unexpected news, Simon. What have they said? No, not unexpected at all. We've been waiting for that this news virtually all afternoon. Manchester United have confirmed that Michael Carrick will take over in charge of the team until at the end of the season. He will be supported by Steve Holland, the former England coach, Jonathan Woodgate, who worked with Carrick at Middlesbrough. Travis Binney and the Manchester United Under 21's coach Johnny Evans, who helped Darren Fletcher out over the last two games. and Craig Mawson, who is the goalkeeping coach.

It's interesting because there are quotes from Michael Carrick in this statement and also Manchester United's Director of Football, Jason Wilcox, and both of them say, I know what it takes to succeed here, says Michael Carrick, and Jason Wilcox said he knows exactly what it takes to win at Manchester United. And that is clearly a key element of this. There's been a lot of discussion about whether the United are right to go for an interim rather than try and name a permanent head coach.

People point to the chaos that happened with Ralph Ragnick and also the fact that to some people, they backed themselves into a corner when they appointed Oliguna Solshar as the interim manager in 2018 after Jose Marino had been sacked. But I think what Manchester night are trying to do is reconnect itself. with what the club is supposed to be and that is a kind of a brand of attacking football that Carrick clearly was part of and understands completely

and through the formations he played at Middlesbrough is in line with rather than this three-at-the-back formation that people thought was kind of progressive when Ruben Amarim came in but was used in the end as a stick to beat him with. So yes, that is the state. Michael Carrick says there's a lot to fight for this season. We want to pull everyone together and give the fans the performances

their support deserves. That has to start, I guess, on the training ground tomorrow and on Saturday when Manchester City are the visitors to Old Trafford. Yeah, it's not a bad one to start with. But when you look at Michael Carrick's career, and he's played over 400 games for Manchester United. So it's not a complete break with the past. but do you think it feels like a fresh start

that may be going with Olegonis Solshar who they did bring in as you said as interim coach before and then ended up getting the job longer term? Yeah, I think there's an element of that. I think Manchester United felt as though Michael Carrick could be a coach on the training ground. He can lead the coaching team.

I think there was a feeling that Olegon and Solisselshar was more of a kind of watcher of training sessions rather than leading them. he would probably argue against that. And also there's the reality that Kieran McKenna, who was also part of his coaching team, is now trying to mount a promotion campaign. A tip switch.

I think the thing about Michael Carrick is that he's connected to the club. His son plays for one of the junior teams, and he's been at Carrington quite a lot, Michael Carrick, to watch him play. He's also worked for the foundation. He was on a sleepover for the foundation. in November. He played a legends game. So it's not as though he's been a distant figure to Manchester and he has been around Manchester United. He's even been on match of the day too, analyzing

Manchester United. So this is not a kind of new thing for him. And I think also that the entire coaching staff, including Steve Holland obviously through England, Jonathan Woodgate, because he played for Real Madrid, Carrick and Johnny Evans through playing at Manchester United and Travis Binion, by being at Manchester United, they're aware of the pressure that this club is under and probably are used to dealing with it or know how to deal with it. And I think that, as much as anything, is a big part of this because at the moment it feels as there's no Manchester United in a mess. There's a lot of scrutiny on Manchester United. There's a lot of pressure to deliver results. And I just think they think the whole team

around Carrick is something that can deliver their, I'd say, success, relative success. So European qualification, which was the target right at the start of the season. Dwight, Michael Carrick then appointed as Manchester United's interim head coach. We kind of knew this was coming, we'd certainly been given all the indications that it was going to happen. What do you make of the choice? Does it feel like a good match for you? Yeah, just similar to what Simon said, really, I think,

the fact that he's been around it and he's obviously seeing what's been going on inside the club sort of thing. I think that's going to be a pivotal thing for what he likes to change as well as someone that brings an exciting type of football that obviously the club are demanding really. The fans want to see an exciting game where lots of goals scoring and attacking plates sets of play. But I think obviously knowing what he was what he was like at Middlesbrough and. the way he was able to develop the team there. I think he should have all the tools. And like Simon said, with the people coming in with him,

they will give him the little helping hand and also know the pressures that come with, obviously, managing Maine United. So I think obviously that a lot of the boys in the club will be excited for a lot of new ideas. And I'm sure they'll be excited for training tomorrow, to be honest. Kelly, the point you mentioned to Simon, I think is interesting.

And I agree with you. I do think it is different to say, had they gone with Oligone and Seltier, had they returned to a former manager, I think it would have been a backward step, it could have been perceived as a backward step, and a clear sign they were holding on for a permanent manager in the summer. Now, that might still be the case with a statement that Simon mentioned, but the appointment of Michael Carrick feels a better choice in a step in the right direction because I think now he has effectively a five-month audition.

I know he's been a caretaker manager before at Old Trafford, but this now is on his terms with his team. Jonathan Woodgate was his number two at Middlesbrough. He also played with Jason Wilcock at Leeds, but it's the Carrick connection that is key because they complimented each other so well when they were at Middlesbrough. And wherever Carrick was going to work next,

I always expected Jonathan Woodgate to go with him. And I've got to say, Steve Holland is a very astute move. Deeply respected, very talented coach. I know both Tony Peelots and Garra Southgate think extremely highly of him. Eight years he worked at the FAA. He has a wealth of experience, and I don't think Carrick will be thinking, I'm here to keep the seat warm. Instead, this is an opportunity now to impress to actually keep the job.

Pat, there is one as well on, oh, there is a question as well about style of football, because that's something that everybody's raised in terms of why it didn't work out with Amarim and why Michael Carrick has been brought in. What do you expect from him? Is it similar to when Darren Fletcher came in for a couple of games and said, look, I'm just going to bring exciting front foot football in? Kind of like that, yeah. If you look at what Carrick had done at Middlesbrough,

the fans generally loved him what he was trying to do. You know, the attack-minded attitude that he's got, which is in the DNA of Manchester United. Now they kind of misplaced that DNA for a wee well, and it didn't look like that a lot of the time. And the fans are fed up with the lack of success for a long time. But Manchester United fans expect more than that. They expect style.

They expect excitement. They expect it to be a magical club. And it's not felt magical for quite some time. Whereas I think Carrick will endeavor to bring that back as much they can because that's who he is. And he's so much, you know, Manchester United History with him as well. I'd like to underline, I so much agree and maybe even push it further forward with what Dennell was saying there.

This could almost be a dream team. And I think that sounds like to a lot of people like, pushing it. But I think Steve Holland is a fabulous, fabulous appointment alongside Woodgate as well. And I have no doubt in my mind, no doubt whatsoever. When they've chosen them to take it to the end of the season, it is absolutely with the hope it will go well enough. And I think if they do get top four or if it's five in its Champions League, I think that'll be enough for them as long as they're playing exciting football to keep them in the job if they want to take the job on after that. I do think Manchester United fans, whether they are or not, they should be excited by this.

This looks like a return to something that feels like Manchester United. Simon Stone is still with us. Simon, what happens now with Manchester United? This is an interim appointment. So is it, as has kind of been suggested in this conversation, a sort of audition for Michael Carrick? Or do they look to bring in someone, make it a completely fresh start again in the summer? And obviously in the very immediate future, as you mentioned earlier, it's a Manchester Derby at Old Trafford on Saturday. Yeah, I'm interested with what the guys are saying there.

I mean, if you just use one example, Oliver Glasner, his contract is up at the end of the season at Crystal Palace. He's obviously done very well at Crystal Palace. He did well before that in Tract Frankfurt. He would be, I assume, somebody who Manchester Knight will look at. Well, let's wind forward. If Michael Carrick qualifies Manchester Night's. for the Champions League and at the same time Oliver Glasner follows up losing to

Macclesfield in the FA Cup by getting knocked out of the Euroconference league in the playoff round for instance which is where they've ended up and then finished 13th of the league well how do you sell an appointment of olive Oliver Glasner when you're taking the job off Michael Carrick and that is the situation it's easy to sit here on the 13th of January and say oh well this This is what we'll do at the end of the season. It gives us a good chance to look at things. Because football gets buffeted, as everybody knows,

on a weekly basis or twice weekly basis, by results. And that affects you one way or the other and can affect you markedly. And that has, in a way, affected Manchester United. Because let's not forget, it's only 18 months ago that they won the FA Cup. And before that, they won the League Cup as well. So it's not as though they're without silverware in recent times. they have won things. It's just the recent performances

have not been good enough. And coming back to that, yes, it's the Manchester Derby at Old Trafford on Saturday, but after that, they've got a game at Arsenal. Now, those two games, that is a pretty hefty baptism of fire.

They're seventh in the league at the moment, but we all know the league is very tight. It's easy to see a situation where those two games don't go right. Manchester United end up in the bottom half of the league, Then the next game is against Fuller and there's already a fans group that's prior to everything around this, but after the dismissal of Ruben Amarim, have said they're going to use that game to protest against the ownership.

So you can have a situation in game three where this kind of great coaching team, and I accept it, looks really good, is suddenly faced with this toxic atmosphere and they have to deliver results out of that. And that is the thing about football for everybody. Having a plan for the end of the season is great. You have to deliver results now. And that is the thing that Michael Carrick will have to do. And he will know that. So he might have designs on staying off.

But he needs to look at Manchester City. Then he needs to look at Arsenal. Then he needs to look at Fuller. And in the end, he'll see where he is. And Simon, just one on what happens in this transfer window, just over two weeks to go, until it closes. Is there any suggestion that Michael Carrick will have any say

in terms of who comes in or what's needed? Or is that something that we have learned from the comments of Ruben Amarim that that is something that maybe a head coach doesn't get involved in? Maybe that's something a manager would get involved in? Well, that's a very good question. And the Manchester Act, they've kind of stressed for months now that they would only buy someone in the January window if they were part of that player

was part of their bigger picture. And that is, I think, one of the causes of tension with Ruben Amarin, that they were willing to enter a market for Antoine Simenio knowing that he was going to cost $65 million, but also knowing that he was one of the players that they would like to target. And I think having missed out on him,

I think Ruben Amarin then said, well, if you were willing to pay $65 million for the, that player, well, can I have some of that money to strengthen my squad? Because I can think of, well, I can certainly think of one example in Joshua Zercki, who Roma were convinced that he was going to join them in January. And I'd be surprised if Zerxes wasn't kind of keen to go back to Italy on the basis that he's still not really playing for Manchester Now. He's coming off the bench. So I could see that going. I could see that happening. but for him to go, someone else has to come in

and I think Amarim was saying well I can find some players with that 65 million that would really help me and Manchester United said well we're not doing that because we're only bringing in players who were part of our bigger picture and that is one of the reasons why Amarine Amato lost his call

when he was talking to Jason Wilcox so again there's two elements to it You can understand completely why Manchester United don't want to be deviated away from a bigger picture because they've had so many bad signings going back years, predates Sir Jim Rattliff, by a long way. But equally, if you need results, then you need players who can deliver those results. Thanks very much to Simon Stone on Manchester United reporter. Pat, one of the things that the owners have been very clear about, even if they are criticised for maybe not being a...

or not outlining their plans quite as clearly as the fans would like. One of the things they have been open about is that this is a temporary job for Michael Carrick, at least for now, because that could change between now and the end of the season. It's really clever. It's a really sensible move. I think it's intelligent of them to do that. They've not always done the things that've sounded that intelligent, but they've given themselves five months of breathing space. They've given themselves five months to consider.

They've given themselves that period, the time to see what is it. available and also the possibility that this might work, which is every possibility that it'll work. So yeah, but from every way it makes sense. Your second to last question there, I thought nailed it completely. And I think what you were getting it, who chooses, who makes the decision in January? If they need some more players, will there be more players coming in? And if they are, is it the ones that Michael Carrick wants? Or is it the ones that are part of this bigger picture and is controlled from above. And that's

exactly why Amaroon went. I don't think there's any other big reason why I was going because they were sticking by him before that. But when he wanted that amount of control and he was given that amount of control, that was the finalisation of that relationship. So what happens now?

With the current group, I couldn't even push that further forward. If it goes well with the current group, what happens in the summer? Do they then get that sort of choice? These are some of the big decisions that need to make in that time. But the more important one is the one you were alluding to,

is what you do in January? Because obviously Manchester United need strengthening. They accepted that themselves when we're going to go in for Semino. So who makes the decision? And Michael Carrick, of course, has been in the backroom staff at Manchester United before. His only other managerial job, though, was at Middlesbrough. He managed the team for three seasons. And BBC Sports Tactics Correspondent, Umeir Irfan,

joins us now to give us some insight into how Carrick's borough teams would set up. Evening, Amir. Evening, you're okay. Yeah, good, thank you. So tell us then, what can Manchester United fans expect from, I mean, given that there is going to be a degree of flexibility in this, but what can Manchester United fans expect, given what he did at Middlesbrough? Yeah, I think when you look at Michael Carrey-Cassey coach and as a manager,

you kind of have two versions of him. So you have the Middlesbrough version and you have the interim coach at United. They're quite different. So at United, he was very adaptable. He played three games against some of the best coaches. I think Arteta, Thomas Tucal and U. and I amory, if I'm not mistaken, and he got results, I think against all of them in very adaptable ways he set up. I think every single game of those three games in a different fashion

with game-specific tweaks to kind of nullify their biggest strengths. And I can speak about that in more detail later. I think the biggest sort of thing that we can take away is his Middlesbrose side. He said repeatedly in his interviews that he wasn't willing to kind of change his idea and a game model there that he wanted to persist with and that was kind of a longer term project so he essentially set up in a way that we've seen a lot of the young and sort of up and coming coaches

set up high possession very positional wanting his place to kind of stay in specific zones and have certain roles and then that looks similar to kind of what we see now at Chelsea with Liam Rizinger and Moreska before him a three two two three shape on the ball but again generally that depends

with a sort of back four, four, four two shape is how he tended to set up his sides out of possession as well. And that's not dissimilar to what we generally see, but I think his tweaks in that side and which plays he put in certain positions is where he'll differ from someone like Ruben Amram, who again played with that back three in possession, but in a very different way, often with two natural wing backs. You know, Karake often pushed one of the full backs up and moved one of his winger inside, closer to goal, and then on the other side had a natural winger holding that width. I think he'll profile his players in a more naturally attacking manner.

He's got a general sort of high possession style of play that he wants, but it'll be up to the player quality that he has at United in order to break down stubborn defences because that's where his team's got a little bit stale in the last season at Middlesbrough. Amir, who do you think? I know you said that the way he plays or the way he sets the team up might not be so different from Ammarin,

but the personnel he puts in might be different. from him. So who do you think is going to benefit from Michael Carrick coming in? Yeah, I think he'll simplify things to begin with. I think he'll look at where players are often doing their best work. I think Bruno Fernandez is probably the biggest one with him playing

in that sort of midfield duo under Ruben Amram in a quite defensive and industrial role. I think if you can get him higher up the pitch and closer to goal, that would be the best thing in terms of his goal output. I think generally Carrick will want two players in and around the number nine. At Middlesbrough,

he played with sort of a more technical smaller striker. I mean, he had the option between a taller striker or a more technical option and he has that again with Sesco and Imbumo so Mbumo can possibly play as the number nine with rotations coming around him. Cunya running

off him and attacking the box. Bruno Fernandez again running off him and attacking the box. I don't think he'll see Amadialo dropping in and putting in as hard of a defensive shift that he's to do under Ruben Amram either. He'll be somebody who either plays as a touchline winger

or in one of those attacking positions behind the striker. Carrick does ask one of his wide players to drop in and form a back five at times if teams are committing a lot of players to attack but generally it looks like a 4-4-2 so I do think the attacking players will be the main beneficiaries

and obviously, sorry, the last one would be Kobi Manu. I think we saw Karik spoke very highly of him and he mentioned in an interview with Rio Ferdinand about the principles at Manchester United it being key, having somebody from the academy. And we've heard a lot about United DNA being important. Some people almost talking about it as kind of a non-issue and tactics

and a gay model being more important. But I think Carrick has his ideas. He has his shape and he has his gay model that he's unwilling to waver from for a long-term project. But he's very adaptable and he has the principles of Manchester United within that that he'll adapt to sort of a more modern, applicable style of play. that hopefully gets United more success. Amir, thanks so much for joining us. Really good to talk to you.

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On the Football Daily podcast, The Debrief with Kelly Kate. It's ended Newcastle-Nill, Manchester City 2, in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final at St James's Park. Pat Nevin and Ian Dennis at St James's Park for the game. Dwight Gale is with us as well. Deno, tell us how they did it. It was that Ryan Chubes.

jerky goal that now gives them a cushion ahead of the return leg in three weeks time. But I think Kelly, that the tie swung in a three-minute period early in the second half. James Trafford made a fantastic save from Whist's looping header. Then Gimoraj hit a post for Newcastle before Docu set up Semenio for a tapping after 53 minutes. Semenio thought he'd scored again after 62 minutes. However, after the corner from the left, VAR had a lengthy look at it and it was deemed that Harlan was in an offside position. Newcastle did have a couple of other opportunities.

Tenali went wide with a whistling shot. Volta Marta was a fraction away from getting on the end of a diving header from Barnes's cross from the left. But that Cherokee goal in the 98th minute means that Manchester City lead by two goals to nil. They've got an extremely strong record at home in this competition. Eddie Howe's Newcastle manager has not scored in his last five visits there. Newcastle have suffered 11 successive defeats that goes all the way back to 20.

2014. So it all stacks in favour of Manchester City. Dwight, was the difference this evening in terms of taking their chances between City and Newcastle? Yeah, I definitely think that was a sort of outcome of the game today. Obviously, a few chances in the first half for Wissar and a few chances towards in the second half for obviously Wissar again. And Water Mada and obviously Ternali had a half chance as well. I just think, obviously, they restricted Harlan to minimal chances or minimal opportunities, which is a big thing with Mancities play, but they've obviously brought in Semenya to add to the goals, and Cherkies been in with the goals and assist the season.

So the fact that they brought in that option gives them something different, which was an important thing for them when they are obviously struggling to perhaps get runners in behind. with Harlan sometimes when teams maybe set up to stop that. That's obviously another option that they brought in, which is it's going to be massive for them from now to the end of the season. So I think that was the sort of difference. And obviously, losing Jacob Murphy, I think in the first half was a big one again

because I think it gives them a bit of a better balance with someone who likes to go on the outside on the right-in-side. Whereas obviously when Harvey Barnes is more of a left-sided and doesn't enjoy going on the outside as much when he plays on the right and then even when Elanga comes on he likes to cut inside a lot more so I think losing that bit of balance

going forward was a bit difficult for Newcastle and then they obviously went through it at the end but they paid the price obviously running out of a bit of gas and obviously Man City are so strong with their chances that they could create and obviously he took that

and it puts him in a difficult position for the next leg really. Yeah, there's so much quality of that Manchester City side. And as Dwight mentioned there, Pat, Antoine Semenio has come in, two goals and an assist in his first two games for Manchester City. A rule change just recently meant that he was able to play, even though he's played for Bournemouth in this competition already this season. But it was just as well as the goal,

it was just an all-round another really good performance for him. It was. We were watching the near the end of the game that and he had. about a 40 metre run up the left-hand side just in front of Ian Dennis and I here and we both almost gasp the way he goes, the pace

he gets past Trippia and leaves him for dead and doesn't seem to be trying. Now, it's not that Tripier was slow, it's that he was lightning quick and it was effortless, and yes, he looked really good, he did the simple technical things

which a good player should do, i.e. he traps the back post when it's coming down the other side and he gets to tap in for that. So yeah, very, very good. from Semenio. I have to say, I think he was out shown by Docu tonight, Docu in the left-hand side

got to the byline time and time again. And we talked before the game, Kelly, about, well, I talked maybe. I was boring on about it. The fact that, you know, that left-hand side where Docu playing against Lewis Miley might be our interest in wanting to watch. Well, the first few minutes, Docu got beyond him.

Then after that, never got beyond him. And that was the problem, because when Docu got the ball wide for the first, goal. It wasn't Miley, it was marking him. It was Barnes that had come back to mark him and just got a winger's marking. He just didn't mark him correctly. That's why I got to the byline. That's why I got the cross in and that's why they scored their first goal. And again, once again, the final goal was exactly the same. It's down the left-hand side again. And

they knew whether there was a problem in Manchester City and they worked it very, very well. But that's the problem. I mean, I think Dwight's absolutely spot on there. He did a right good job in Harland. The problem is, they've got Semeno, they've got Cherokee, they've got Doku, they've got millions. And that's the problem everyone finds against Manchester City. Yeah, if you stop one of them, there's a load

coming up in their place. And as Pat pointed out there, Dwight, there's a really good performance from Semenya, really good performance from Sermenio, really good performance from Doku as well. And that relationship looks like it's starting to come together as well, even after just a couple of games at the club for Semenio.

Yeah, I mean, you can see scoring two goals is definitely going to help him settle in it as a fan's favourite and they've obviously probably already got a song that they were singing for him so he settled him really well he obviously like I said adds something different

obviously Docu causes so much havoc than the wing and puts a lot of good balls into the box but ultimately you need someone in there who's going to give you a second option because Holland's obviously going to be taking care of the two defenders and that's where Semenya can come

in and get the sort of tapings that he's going to get and help out with the goals. Just to add to what Pat said really with the whole defending with Harvey, I think he sort of looked like Doc who had to come back out. And I think even Bruno Gummarsh, he thinks that it's getting back towards the fallback as well. That's why he jumps out of picking up Bernardo Silver just for a second, which allows Bernardo to get the first touch on it, which obviously redirects it towards the menu as well. So I think Doku did really well with just the way that he managed to deceive two of the players and get in behind him, really. Yeah, good game from Doku.

A goal for Semenio, almost two goals for Antoine Temenya this evening. Deno, just explain what happened and the process by which Semenio's second goal was disallowed. Good luck, Deno. Please don't take as long as the VAR did. No, so a corner comes in from the left and basically, as Semeni's, you then tries to sort of like stab it with a little flick. It was Harland, who was deemed to be in an offside position, who was just the other side of Malik Chow and Pope.

And I think they'll think that Harland was interfering with Nick Pope from an offside position. Let's bring in BBC Sport Football Issues correspondent, Dale Johnson. Now, feel free to ask Dale any questions. However, please do remember that Dale is not the VAR in this instance. He's just here to talk about the situation. And Dale, I don't think the quibbles around this are whether the decision was right by the letter of the law. It's more about how long it took to get there and whether or not that says it's not clear and obvious if it takes that long.

I think that's true. And when you also factor in that we've just come from a weekend with the FA Cup, with no VAR, and we'd heard so many fans saying how they must enjoy these games without VAR and then the first game back with it, we have a five minutes and 30 stoppage, partly because the semi-auter made off-side failed to work, so they have to go and draw the lines themselves. But also it's one of those off-side decisions where fans haven't seen it happen at the time.

They haven't thought this could possibly be disallowed. And when you have those decisions which are really unexpected and a surprise for fans, they really are really very much hated. And then when you've got to explain why it's happened, and as you heard just then, there was the doubt about whether it was about Tiao or Pope, it was actually Chiao because Harlan was in contact with him,

then you've got to sort of almost patronise the supporter to explain to them why this decision has been made. So it's correct in law, but is it what we want to see the VAR getting involved in? We don't know. But it's also about where the bar is for overturning on-field decisions because if it takes five minutes, five minutes and 30 seconds to kind of look at a decision and the referee still, and I appreciate this. has to have time to kind of walk over to the monitor and go, if it takes that much time,

how can he be convinced that that's a clear and obvious error? Yeah, I mean, part of it is that the fact that technology failed, but I agree 100% because the offence itself was actually really easy to identify because Harlan was in contact with the defender. So that bit is simple. But if you're making it take so long that when the fans are obviously going to think, well, he can't be certain about this. He's got to have doubts about this.

And it brings in the whole question of clear and obvious. and whether we're going against a threshold, which I think in this decision we were going against a threshold, is the type of decision where it's too forensic, you're getting too involved in the decision, and it should be left with the on-field officials. So, Dale, can I ask? Sorry, Kelly.

Dale, can I just quickly ask, because offside normally is objective rather than subjective. So the fact that Stuart Atwell told Chris Kavana, the referee to go to the monitor, were they looking then to see if Harland had interfered? Yeah, that's exactly what it is. When the off-side player doesn't touch the ball, the referee has to go to the monitor to make the decision himself.

So he's been told, do you think that Erling Harland is doing something which prevents Tiao from playing the ball? And then it's up to Chris Kavana to make that decision himself. So that is a process that they went through at that stage. Pat, I know you said in commentary that you weren't sure what the decision was about at the time. And that's with the benefit of a monitor, of extra information coming into you. That's not from the position of somebody who's just sitting in the ground, watching the game as a regular fan, where they have even less information.

See, I'm one of these people who maybe not like a lot of others. I don't mind taking the time as long as you get it right. I'm okay with that. I would rather wait and get it right because you say all the fans were fed up about it. Newcastle fans weren't. They were absolutely delighted with it. They'll wait five minutes to make sure the goal was chopped off if they think it was right. Now, if it takes a long time and,

the end, it does come back down to the referee's decision. What I've really not enjoyed is when the vast referees to go over and referees almost never overturn their original decision. You know, and it kind of annoys that because I think now and again, it becomes

you have to allow a referee the game and if you're not sure about it and you're really unsure about it, give a referee a chance to have a better angle and then let them referee it. That's what he did. It took a while to do it, but I'm okay with that in the end. If they feel And again, we've got monitors, but I mean, I could stare at that monitor for about a nine and a half.

I don't think I could give you 100% if Charles would have actually made it to that ball. But now, he's made a referee's decision, a referee's call, and I'm okay with it. I just wish I'd have done it a little bit quicker. Let's hear from the Manchester City manager. I would say it's just the first step, but a part of the result and still have the sense or the feeling that the team is there. Two goals, but was three, to be honest. But okay, two goals in two games.

So it's good, but no part of that. Second half was much, much better. And, yeah, really pleased. Well, we're going to say, VAR makes the job. Unfortunately, in primary league game, in 60 minutes and 20 minutes, take a look.

The two penalties, not even VAR intervene. So if you have five minutes, 30 seconds, and four people in BAR don't realize if it's goal, no, you have to go to the referee. So it was so tight. But the second goal, Newcastle here, was not so tight, right?

Yeah, the frame was in the moment the touch of the ball, it was not off-sight. That's okay. Again, the fact that I say now because we won't in that moment I didn't say one word. And not even in other situations. But the fact that, you know,

you come here and these actions at the end is the team, like it's since one didn't lose one game here. So it's a tough, top opponent. But really peace for the fact, now recover and go to the derby. After the game, Semenu looked directly into the TV camera when he was walking off and he said, the second goal should have counted.

You can understand, Dwight, from a forward's point of view, you can understand his frustration. Yeah, of course, he would have liked to get the second goal. And if I was in that sort of situation, I'd be asking, I don't think Chow's going to be able to react quick enough after it's come from like a yard or two yards away to waist height almost, as it goes past him. I think it would be almost impossible for him to react that quickly. but like you said, the referees made a decision and he thinks that's the right one for him.

So I understand. But from Semenya's point, obviously, it's a very frustrating one that he thought he had a legitimate goal. I'm not sure if he's sitting in time to look back on it or not. But yeah, I bet he's a bit gutted, to be honest. Dale, you just published an article on the BBC Sport website this morning saying that VAR errors have risen in the first half of this Premier League season. This is not an error, but there is a feeling that with all the technology available to the officials,

with the number of bodies, the number of eyes that are on every decision, how on earth can errors rise? Surely the more people who are looking at it and the more technology and the more angles they have available, their percentage of the correctness percentage should be increasing. That's true. And it had increased 50% this time last season. It's gone up a little bit from this season. but the problem is this is always going to be a subjective judgment anyway. This, these number of

13 errors is a subjective judgment of five people on a panel. If you take these, all the KMI's the key match incidents from this season so far you get another different five people to cast their votes. You might get a different number of errors. You might get less, you might get more. This is the problem with

VAI. It will always be the problem. Everything is just somebody else's opinion. Be that, be the fans watching on TV, us on the radio, the managers, the VARs or anybody. Everybody can have a different opinion on every single incident. So you're never going to get ultimate agreement about anything and you're always going to have errors because this is human decision making and people are going to make mistakes.

Dale, been really good talking to you. Thank you for clearing that up for us. And I think, you know, as Dale explained there, it was the correct decision in law, but it's one that's not gone down terribly well with football fans. And Dale asked the question himself, is this what we want from the game? Stuart in London said it's the single worst VAR decision I think I've ever seen. I just can't understand what's going on.

Unfortunately, the game's being ruined. Martin & Glossop says absolutely ruined by VAR. It's a total shambles. It's fair to say people were not happy about that. Other than Pat, as you correctly pointed out, the Newcastle fans who were inside the stadium, who were more than happy to see that goal disallowed. But it was a comfortable win in the end in terms of the scoreline for Manchester City

with a two-nil victory. And Pat, Newcastle's, record Eddie Howe's record at the Etihad is not good. A Manchester City on their way to Wembley? I would not be betting against it at this point in time, but it's not a foregoing conclusion. Now, the thing you have to take into consideration, and I think the biggest thing now is if you're Eddie Howard,

a Newcastle fan, and you're thinking, well, we're out now, well, wait a minute, they've got a lot of big games coming up Manchester City. They put a huge amount of effort in there. early on just a bit crawled off that pitch today now how strong are they going to go in the second leg and the temptation is you know okay maybe we might go a little bit

light you know at that point in time if you score an early goal you know away from home it's back on again you've got a chance it's unlikely it's a long shot but is it impossible no remember back to last year of final that was a surprise wasn't it no one saw Newcastle

I wouldn't say no one considering where I'm sitting right now but very few people were actually seeing that that was going to turn out the way it did and, you know, after Big Dan's header and the exact goal, you just think anything can happen in football and it can, but it's a long shot. There's no doubt it's a long shot and you do wonder if Eddie Howe thinks, well, this might be a beyond us now,

I should maybe be concentrating in other stuff. And that would be a real shame if this second leg was just a kind of ticking boxes and seeing the game out because it deserves more than that because this was a really good game of football and a well-battled game of football from everyone involved this one. Pat and Denno, thank you very much. We'll let you go now.

Thanks, Kelly. Pat Nevin and Ian Dennis at St James's Park and we can hear from Newcastle manager, Eddie Howe, with Chris Sykes. What's your assessment of what we've just seen out there today? I thought it was a tight game. I thought it was two teams, you know, giving their role under probably a little bit of fatigue. I think from our side, certainly,

after 120 minutes against Bournemouth. We said after the game, that was an ideal preparation for this game and I have to compliment the players on the attitude and the commitment to give their best physically, which we found really difficult today against the team that if you are having any fatigue,

we'll expose it. But we gave everything, and it could have been so different if we'd have got that first goal or taken some of our chances. Yeah, because you did have those chances obviously viscerate very early on and then there was the double chance

in the second half as well. Yeah, I thought there was enough there for us. As you say, Joanne's had that chance early in the game. Then Bruno's hit the post, I think, and Traffers made a really good save from Wissar. So, yeah, I think it could have been very different. Nick's nearly got his head on a couple of crosses at the end, set plays we look dangerous.

But it wasn't to be tonight for whatever reason. And then we concede when we have 10 men on the pitch, so that, again, there's sort of another blow for us. Jacob Ramsey shouldn't have to go off the pitch in that moment where he's been elbowed to the head, and we get punished from the fact he needed treatment. But that's for another day, suppose. Does it feel like that second goal right at the end has changed the dynamic of the tie bit?

It's made it more difficult for us. There's no denying that. To win at the Eti had is hard enough. To win by more than two goals is very difficult, but it's possible. And I firmly believe that we can do it. We're going to need to score the next goal in the game. We need to make a good start to the match. And if we can, then we have an opportunity. And I do just have to ask one final question about the five and a half minute delay we had for the same year goal. What was your view on all of that? Well, firstly, I think that's too long a delay for the decision. I don't encourage that. We don't want that. I think we don't want a cold night player standing around. But if that's what it takes to get the right call, then so be it. On Wednesday, we've got commentary of Chelsea

against Arsenal in another EFL Cup semi-final first leg tie. Our football correspondent, John Murray, joins us now. Hello, John. Hello, Kelly. This is very excited. New Chelsea manager, Liam Rossignor, or Liam Ressinger, as we should be saying, will face his first real test. So do you think we're going to see changes from the Charlton side in the FA Cup at the weekend? I do. I reckon there'll be at least, I reckon something like nine changes to that Chelsea team that he picked on Saturday night.

So very much, yes, a very different-looking Chelsea team. I mean, he will have Cocherea available after suspension. There are question marks over James, Gusto, and Palmer, obviously three of Chelsea's front liners, and he will be without Kaisedo as well, who is going to serve yet another suspension, his third suspension of the season. So this is a Carabau Cup suspension,

but misses the first leg. And if you remember, he was sent off in the league match between the sides at Stanford Bridge back at the end of November when it finished as a 1-1 draw, and Chelsea played over half of that match with 10 men. And I do think that's significant as well, Kelly, because I just think it's a London Derby, it's Chelsea Arsenal.

I think that there will be a bit of carryover from that match, even though it was all those weeks ago, because if you remember, there was certainly a bit of feeling in that match. There certainly was. Let's hear from the new Chelsea boss. Here's Liam Rossini. I'd love to be here for six years and longer. I'll be here as long as possible,

but I'm aware in order for that to happen, I need to win. It's as simple as that. I understand every club has a different project. This word project comes out a lot. now in football. But the idea in any project is at every game you play, you're trying to win it. It's as simple as that. So for me, my focus is, yes, I've got ideas about what I want the team to look like in a year's time, two years, three years' time. But I think I've got enough resources and enough tools with me now to win now. I've made that clear to the players.

Every session that I take, every meeting that I take, every game that we play is the most important thing. I live in the Nell. So it is the most important game because it's the next one. And I mean that if you start to prioritize games or think something's more important than the other, then you're not focused. I don't care if it's a preseason game. I'm doing it at my maximum. And I expect that from whichever group I work with. So for me, that keeps me calm because I'm happy with the process in which we work as a staff and which the players are taking on. I'm not making it any bigger than the fact it's the next game and we have to win. And that's the way I see it. John, you wouldn't expect him to say anything other than the next game is the biggest.

We want to win every game. Every game is important. But he does sound particularly confident, especially when he talks about the length of his contract. Yeah. And I think there is a little bit of an unknown quantity tomorrow night because of the fact that it is his first match at Stamford Bridge as the coach. And, you know, very often we see a reaction, don't we? for when that happens. And, you know,

and there was dissatisfaction about the way that Enzo Moreska's team played. And it wasn't just in those latter weeks. You know, this was a long-running thing. And I think that there were certainly a proportion of Chelsea fans who wanted to see a change. So there will be that hope,

there'll be that feeling, there'll be that atmosphere tomorrow night. And, you know, we might say a reaction. And for Arsenal, there are players missing. Hincapier, Califiori, so a couple of defenders, Mosqueras out for a lengthy period of time. So there will have to be a little bit of a, you know, we might see No Guard playing again in Central Defence,

which of course he's perfectly capable of doing. Questions over Trossard, Saliber as well. We don't know if they're going to be fit, those two. But you would have to make, as I do, Arsenal, the favourites to go through here with that second leg at the Emirates. But it depends what happens tomorrow. Yeah, Dwight, it's going to be so difficult

for Chelsea. It's not, well, I don't know, maybe it is the kind of the ideal match for a new manager coming in, a game against the team who are top of the Premier League. Yeah, Arsenal has obviously been so strong this year, so it's ultimately going to be

a really tough task to beat them over two leagues. But at the same time, I think Rochina is going to bring something new that I don't think Artetta's going to be used to or know exactly the way he's going to play. And I think that might be a bit of a surprise. especially in the first leg, I think they might be able to catch them out with some tactics that they perhaps wasn't used to Chelsea playing under.

So I know that it's obviously a derby as well when it's going to create a bit more fight and a bit more added to the game. But I think the Chelsea team might surprise a few of the Arsenal players. And it might be a bit more interesting and a lot more closer than we think. Dwight, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you very much. And that is it for this episode of the first. Football Daily. Thank you to all of our guests and thank you to you for listening. We'll see you

next time. Life Sports. NFL. Touchdown! I think you just have to go out there and be the best that you can be. We're going to go out there and lay it all in the line. 12-yard touchdown one. And skill collide. And the Eagles are beating the cheese convincingly in Super Bowl 59. Five-L-life sports. NFL. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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