Football Daily - The Debrief: Chelsea beat Real Betis to win Conference League

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Steve Crossman presents reaction to Chelsea winning the Conference League. Pat Nevin, Mark Schwarzer & Ali Bruce-Ball join Steve as Chelsea complete the European set.Goals from Enzo Fernandez, Nicolas Jackson, Jadon Sancho and Moises Caicedo completed a turnaround in Poland after Betis had gone 1-0 up, and gave Enzo Maresca’s side a piece of silverware to add to an impressive Premier League season.Listen to the moment Chelsea lifted the Conference League trophy, and hear from Blues boss Maresca on a historic night for the London club.Timecodes: 00:40 Real Betis succumb to Chelsea 02:00 Cole Palmer’s brilliance 09:30 Moises Caicedo’s season 10:50 Betis medals 14:15 Winners’ medals & trophy lift 22:25 Next steps for Chelsea 26:45 Jadon Sancho & Nicolas Jackson 31:35 Enzo Maresca post-match 33:30 Maresca big pictureBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Fri 1945 England v Portugal in the UEFA Women’s Nations League, Sat 2000 PSG v Inter Milan in the UEFA Champions League Final.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcasts, The Debrief with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello, welcome to The Debrief on the Football Daily Podcast. Chelsea have won the Conference League beating Real Betis 4-1 in the final. Enzo Fernand, Nicholas Jackson, Jaden Sancho, Moises Caicedo, Cole Palmer with a couple of brilliant assists. We've got Ali Bruceball and Mark Schwartz are inside the stadium. Pat Nevin with us as well. Trophy lift on the way. And just looking down at the pitch, Ali, the first thing I saw actually, Real Betis players in tears. Yeah, distraught. I mean, the support in this stadium

for them tonight and actually the interaction now. This is brilliant, Steve from their fans who are just applauding and lauding their team for their efforts tonight. The dream was on at halftime, played really well in that first half and Chelsea was slightly out of sorts. First ever major European final. they really felt it was on and it hasn't quite happened for them tonight. And the scoreline looks really bad on them in the end but they're chasing the game and Chelsea have that quality, don't they, to punish them. But I think if you're a Real Betis fan, I think you've really enjoyed the run in the competition this season

because this isn't a club like Chelsea that spends lots of time in the upper echelons of European football, which is why it would have meant so much for them to win it. But I tell you what, talking about what it means to Chelsea, the huge contrast at the other end of the field, as you can hear the song blasting out, the entire Chelsea squad together, linking arms, bouncing up and down, dancing away with those Chelsea fans and about to lift another trophy. Mark Schwartz, there's so many individuals that we can talk about and we will talk about as we review not just Chelsea's final victory but what comes next for them after this.

I feel like we've got to start with Cole Palmer because the two key goals were the equaliser and the goal to put Chelsea in front and they were more about the assist than anything else. Yeah they were, the first one was an excellent cross into the box, perfectly weighted, perfectly directed and Enzo Fernandez just running on the end of it, all he needed to do was get a touch on it, which he did. Of course he has to be there, it's a great run, but it's the ball isn't it, it's the delivery in there. I'm pretty sure it was his first delivery into the box from open play Cole Palmer and it was a it was a fantastic ball and in the second one it just came from nothing. Cole Palmer down the down the right hand side just playing

with the youngster Rodriguez as he came on and then dropping the shoulder and the turn and the ball into that near post area was excellent as well. Jackson on the end of it I mean Chester in the end in the back of the net and that just changed the game. It flipped its on its head and I think also the substitutions after that, Colwell and Sancho coming on made a massive difference as well. Well Pat, we were saying at half time it looked pretty clear what Enzo Maresca needed to do but I still think we'll give him a lot of credit for doing it, completely changed the game. Yeah absolutely, that um, he'd have get some stick if he didn't do it, didn't work but yeah it wasn't working for Gusto because he's not a central midfield player.

Just about a couple of minutes after the start of that second half, don't you remember, Rhys James played a ball in from the right hand side, he just got into that area, knew how to play that area, Chelsea didn't quite get on the enter, but the entire game had completely changed in that moment. So there was much much more balance, we changed what was better in that position and then of course the game starts to open up. The other thing is Chelsea have more power and more strength than the opposition and they were always going to be able to keep on going. Chelsea are generally a better team in the second half. Lots and lots of 1v1s were interested tonight. My favorite one of course was Isco versus Palmer. Isco won

the first half. Palmer hammered the second half and those two beautiful absolutely phenomenal assists that he got there were absolutely fantastic. So yep Chelsea deserved it by a country mile in the end, but they had to work for it. But in the end, it was a bit of a cruise and that's a bit of a relief because that's not harmed the Chelsea often this season. Ali, I was just looking at some of the celebrations which are right in front of you there. They're almost on three levels. Nicholas Jackson going absolutely crazy in front of the Chelsea fans. One level down Enzo Maresca dancing, one level down Todd Bowley politely applauding. And Cole Palmer as well, because none of that

is sort of, I mean, he does get involved in a bit of it, but when they all raced on at the full time whistle, just strolls on, takes it all in, you know, it just seems when he plays like that, that is his manner, his pulse rate just seems so low, he loves the big occasions, he handles them. So well, I can see him now, all his teammates sort of convolting around him. In fact, he's being brought over here for a first post-match interview, but absolute magic in his boots tonight. And I think, Steve, really, really important win for this young squad.

As Mark has said, and as Pat has said as well, whatever you think about the competition, this is a Chelsea squad that's been put together to try and achieve big things and try and build towards that. And that's why having started the competition as big favourites, quite rightly so, they've hammered some teams on their way here, but they've got the job done in the final. He's getting the Man of the Match award, isn't he, Mark?

Col Palmer. Yes, he is. Yeah, I said it in the match commentary. Col Palmer is back. That's his celebrations. That's him, the way he played that second half. Absolutely brilliant. He won Man of the Match in his last European final for Manchester City in the Super Cup as well.

I mean, I know it's an easy thing to say Mark, he is a man for the big occasion, that's just how it is. Yeah he has been, he's delivered and that's the difference isn't it. I mean Chelsea have had those players in the past, I mean I'm not trying to compare him with Didier Drogba for example who would score every time on those big occasions but this is kind of moving along those lines. Someone like Colpain, they need someone to take over, so they want to take the reins. Someone to direct this team, this group of young players. Colpong is obviously a young player as well, but he's got an incredible amount of maturity and the ability to deal with the big occasions. And that's what he's done tonight once again.

He's led this side and he's dictated that second half, totally controlled it. Yeah, I mean, I love watching him back in the same way as Manchester City. I thought Chelsea wouldn't have watched him when they got him. And then amazed at this little period where he had a fade, you know, and he was disappearing out of games. And the confidence that he shows seemed to evade him, which is stunning to see because it must be in there somewhere. But just recently, you began to see bits of it really coming back back and if you look at his numbers at the end of the season

they're not bad for a society as well. Yeah right it's big occasion and big moments and although the first goal that he made for Enzo was a beautiful piece of work and they do work on it. Enzo Fernandez coming from deep breaking the line there and he'll always find the pass because he's brewing to that sort of thing in a de brownness out of way however I thought I'm slightly biased towards the second assist being the jinky winger skills down the right side the way he's done it there and he had right marks spot on he toyed with the lad that was trying to mark him he knew he was going to go by him all

along it's all about getting the ball into the area and it was such a good ball that he didn't even need to head it. He goes to Jackson and it just comes off his chest and he gets in the goal. A brilliant moment there. Chelsea just get stronger and stronger and that's maybe a metaphor for what's going to happen with these young players. I'm looking at a lot of them and a lot of them are improving. Enzo is improving, Casado is improving, certainly Palmer can improve a lot. Jackson we talked about before, I think my last words before we went to the commentary to start, he could be the man tonight. Well, he's got the goal that got him 2-1 but I think we'll all agree that Palmer was actually the man who did it in the end.

But you can see it's beginning to happen for a group of those Chelsea players. I don't think it's the finished article yet but you can see the direction. I also think there's a balance. The balance of the team wasn't right until Rhys James came on, Colwell came on and then Jadon Sancho. There was a better balance and I think, I also think Cole Palmer then changed the way he played a bit. He actually was looking to for those runs. I think Fernandez had an opportunity running to the box, which he did. I think it's a different balance on the side when that happened.

Madiweki came on the right hand side. I thought Neto wasn't really in the game tonight. Really struggled to make the impact. I thought there were two individual at times. But when those substitutions were made, they actually played far better as a unit and that made all the difference in the second half. The second assist that Pat is waxing lyrical about, there was an absolute joy to watching the stadium tonight, that sort of toying with the 19 year old Rodriguez, it reminded me a little bit, do you remember Messi creating that goal in the World Cup semi-final

against Croatia when I think he scored Gvardial, from deeper, didn't he? You know, sort of twisted and turned him and then created that brilliant goal for Argentina. It was just like that. It was just like, I am taking control of this and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. And what I'm really hoping, Steve, is that the shirt swap that happens tonight is Palmer and Isco because I think both of those would look at those shirts and remember that final and think yeah he did alright. Do you know what Pat I think now is the time for a mention for Moises Caicedo and I'll tell you why he is Chelsea's player of the season right and Cole Palmer is the reason probably they've won this final tonight but also they've needed players like Caicedo to be eight out of ten every week for him to get the goal and make that his third goal

in his 103rd game for Chelsea that felt quite quite right i think yeah deserving of it as well it's strange with Caicedo because he's stuck in the right back a couple of times and honestly it was awful it just wasn't working at all. But he was desperate, you could see how angry he was when he was kicking everything that moved. Now he does like a wee kick and a wee nip now and again. But his energy levels, they do remind you of an N'Golo can't they? Different type of player, but the energy levels are fantastic. And when you see his goal, have a look at it again.

It's actually him that makes the break. He gets away, he passes it out wide, but he doesn't sit. Yeah, he's a deeper line midfielder, but he's not sitting at that point in time. And there's been times of season where you get the last 20 minutes of games and everyone's tiring, and he is actually getting stronger. So yeah, very, very important. Ali, it's time, very nearly time, for the Real Betis players to make one of the worst walks in football.

Yeah, it is. They're still gathered around the edge of the penalty area, away to our left, in front of their brilliant fans. In fact, some of those fans have now made their way out of the stadium. They can't bear to watch this bit. The Chelsea players, credit to them, have made this tunnel lined up, facing each other, creating a tunnel to applaud the rail bet his players through. Tempers did flare towards the end of the game. It was a keenly contested final. Luckily, nothing boiled over between Anthony and Enzo Fernandes right at the end. The officials have now received their medals. Everything's decked out. This sort of stage here is is decked out in black with green trim and the UEFA Conference League trophy is standing on a tall glass plinth, very similar to the Europa League trophy. The UEFA Cup, that sort of vase shape, shiny silver gleaming under the floodlights tonight

and it looks like it's sort of got that bit of sort of gold inside it as well from up here, a bit like when they open the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, you never quite see what's in there, just that shining gold inside the trophy. And the better players, Steve, about to make their way through this tunnel of Chelsea players applauding their beaten opponents. And Mark Schwartzer, you've done this walk twice and actually I'm sure you can really feel how they must be feeling the better players because both of the teams you made that walk with sort of knew they weren't going to be in European finals all that often. Yeah that's right.

It's still tough though. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. When you're in a final, of course you want to win it. And it hurts like anything to lose the final. Yeah, it brings back a lot of memories from that. But you've got a lot of the bigger picture. And I think Petsis down the line will look back at this moment

of an incredible run and a credible journey. And possibly not expected for them to reach a final like this. It was the same when I was with Middlesbrough and Fulham. Nobody expected us to get to a UEFA Cup and then a Europa League final and we did. So in hindsight it's a great achievement but most of the time people don't remember who lost, they only remember the winners. They gave it a right good go, Pat, didn't they? They did, particularly in the first half. But that energy level that they showed at the start,

you know, really pressing high up the pitch, et cetera. And thinking, can you keep that up? I'm not sure you can. And absolutely they couldn't. And for all we love, Isco and what he did, he's not that type of player. And if you're going to do that sort of pressing against a team that's young and fit, you can't do it with nine. you can't do it with ten, you need to do it with them all.

Every single player has to be up for it. So they gave it their best shot and held on for a good long period of time. But I'll be honest with you, before we lost our first goal, I thought we'd lost it. I thought Chelsea had completely taken control. And just as Mark was saying there, the changes had made a difference, but also the physicality had made a difference as well. And that maturity we were talking about before the game, it's really beginning to show through now. Really, really tough for the Real Betis players walking down the lines. Lots of emotion. Probably

five or six players at least, maybe more, have been in tears since the full-time whistle and they're all just walking past that trophy and most of them are trying not to look at it. But now it's Chelsea's moment, Ali. Winners' medals, here they come. First to get it is Enzo Maresca, the UA for president. Alexander Severin, the last in line, hangs the medal around the Chelsea manager's neck. He turns, spots someone in the stands that he knows, gives them a double wave with both hands and the Chelsea players now tired after the exertions tonight but a spring in the step, another trophy in the cabinet and they bounce their way along that platform to collect the medals and then line themselves up on a green

bit of carpet to the left of this main stage where Rhys James will eventually collect that trophy, bring it across, the fireworks will go, the confetti will fly and Chelsea will celebrate their win tonight. Manuel Pellegrini was up first for Real Betis, I saw Risco next after him. Have a last longing look at the trophy that could have been. Cole Palmer just goes strolling past that Conference League trophy on his left. He doesn't seem too fussed about that. Having a chat with his teammates, Noddy Madaweke does the same, Mark Kukerea follows and we're getting to the point where Rhys James will get the medal. Enzo Fernandez, team captain tonight, high five for him. Medal is hung around his neck.

Trophy stands tall above him in this stadium in Poland. And then a word with Rhys James who says thank you and gets to do what he will always have wanted to do for Chelsea, get his hands on a trophy as the captain holds it in both hands, brings it in front of his teammates, raises it to the sky as the golden confetti blows out of the cannons behind the Chelsea players and the season for Chelsea ends in glory. UEFA conference league winners, the fourth winners of this trophy after Roma, West Ham two seasons ago, Olympiakos last season and now Chelsea. They will play in the Champions League next season which is where they feel they belong. They were under pressure against Real Betis tonight but four goals in the second half they cruised

the competition and they cruised the final in the end and eventually like shimmering glitter in the air still falling we can finally see the Chelsea players behind it and Mark Schwartzer each player now getting their turn to take the trophy and raise it high to the cheers of their teammates. Yeah, no, it's not as bad isn't it? It's about creating that bond, that experience of winning a trophy, what it means to these group of players, to the club and I think it's really important that they've done the job, they've matured, they deserve to win the game and it's something they can take back to and it's that starting point We talked about before the game qualify for Champions League now win this trophy and this could be the start of something for Chelsea

The glitter tonight Steve the confetti is like hanging in the air all that's like a TV image But it's it's like sort of golden snow kind of hanging in the air and all the confetti on the pitch quite a scene here snow kind of hanging in the air and all the confetti on the pitch. What a scene here. Pat Nevin, you know how people have looked at this Chelsea squad over the last few years and they've talked rightly about how much it's cost and there have been lots of discussions over the years about how unbalanced it's become. Well, looking at those pictures, looking at those players, that is a team now. Very good point. It does look like a team. It looks like a group that's going to work together. I have to say it didn't for a long time.

And it was it seemed as if it was a massive big net thrown out wide and caught lots of fish. And they might actually get to know each other after a wee while. But you didn't see it happening for a good long time. But slowly but surely it's been put together this season certainly near the end of it you can see the sense of it I mean hey there's a lot being lost on the way I mean they spent a lot of money and a lot of players that ain't worked in any way whatsoever but maybe that's what was always part of the plan they understand that there would be failures as long as there was enough positives particularly among the young ones to go forward. But you also have to get a manager to bring it

all together. I'm watching some pictures there, Kuka Reila, he's playing and to be honest a lot of people would have got rid of him, you know a lot of people didn't like him. He's been one of the most important players of the team. We had a chat beforehand about Anthony and I said to you I wouldn't play Anthony against him Because Anthony won't get a touch didn't did he? No, he'd never get a sniff because that's not it And he should have been moved over the other side, but the point is, Moreska knew, he kept up So he's learning as manager. He's going forward. The team as a group are going forward They will buy over the summer where they are weak.

So yeah, the plan is it is. It's not a quick one, but it still seems on track as we look at it right now. We will definitely get into the where are they weak and where might they buy and who's celebrating down on that pitch might not necessarily be in a Chelsea shirt next season. Before we do that, Mark Schwartzer, you used the word there as you were discussing the trophy lift. It's a bond, isn't it? You win something together, you've been there, it bonds you. Yeah, it does, and I think that's really important for this group of players. Off the back of finishing fourth in the Premier League, qualified for the Champions League. Now they're in their first European final as this group of players, this next generation, this project and they've delivered. So okay, it's the third ranked European trophy but it's a trophy,

a final that they were in, they needed to win to take that next step. Now they've got an opportunity to move on from it and And it's great for them. They can celebrate. They can enjoy this moment. But no, there's a big, there are far bigger challenges ahead and what Chelsea need to do to get to where they were before. There's still a long way to go, but this is the beginning. I feel like Ali, they've got like a UEFA playlist for trophies because they add in the odds one, which is club specific. But I was doing the women's champions league final at the the sort of done those celebrations with the confetti flying, that they go round sort of every part of this ground where the Chelsea fans are to celebrate with them.

And you know, that was interesting as well, Steve, to watch tonight, like we were saying, right at the start of the night, the sort of feeling you were getting from both sets of fans and how important it was to Real Betis and what a big night it was for them. And then gradually, they sort of went quieter and quieter as Chelsea took control of the game and they're celebrating wildly tonight but I just think that winning a trophy is

is a big deal whenever you do it but I just think it's so important for this young group of players who they expect so much from I just think it's a major step forward, not step beyond, step forward for the club. Champions League football plus the trophy, who knows what's going to happen in the club World Cup. You know, five wins in the last six Premier League games, when Champions League qualification wasn't assured and the win in this as well. That is some end of the season. They've already timed that run well. The EuroLeagues on the Football Daily.

Thursdays on the Football Daily join the EuroLeagues team as we bring you the latest from across the continent with a host of top European football journalists. Come to do an interview with him and normally it's an hour chat. He comes in and says, what a luxury to have you for an hour. Says, no, it's not going to be an hour. We've got a show to do now 20 minutes the Euroleagues only on the football daily listen on BBC Sounds

on the football daily podcasts the debrief with Steve Crossman listen on BBC Sounds What about that next step then part they They've got this young group, they've bonded them together, so presumably that means you've got to keep that group together and only make finite changes. I think you need to make a lot, but the changes are the ones that aren't playing. There's a lot of squad players there and we know what it's all about now, it's all about money and making sure you use it the right ways. So there's a good number of players that will be moved on that are not absolutely integral to the group. And if they make enough money out of them and add on the Champions League money that's coming in as well, then you can look at another centre forward to help, you know, the man Jackson there who's been on his own

and the only one who's a national centre forward up there, who they trust because they don't trust in Kung Fu, absolutely no chance. And then you look at the other areas, I mean do you feel as if you've got enough strength and depth in the centre backs? Do you get rid of one or two of the four or five you've got and bring in another one who actually is young but also improving as well? I think they will probably do that. I think central midfield are absolutely fine maybe the only area is that right back area I mean Rhys James Kimmane did a great job today um but he doesn't seem absolutely convinced in that area and then there's a goalkeeper as well now that seems a lot for a team that's out there celebrating winning a cup but there's still a big there's a long way to go there's a big big jump between winning the third tier trophy and getting back to where Chelsea were four, five, six years ago.

So yeah, they've got things to do. The thing is, you're looking as if they've got the money to do it, and the finances as they are, it would seem, if they used these sales wisely, it could work and I think Chelsea fans can be, can rightly be pretty excited because if fourth is what they've got this season after what some of them thought was an average season, why not expect more? And they know where they have to be strengthened and actually there's some possessions I don't think it's that difficult to strengthen for them. So going off a bit Ali isn't it? Just lining themselves up for a team photo now which difficult to strengthen for them. So going off a bit, Ali, isn't it? Just lining themselves up for a team photo now, which is going to look fantastic. So many clubs do this now, don't they, Steve?

But they've positioned themselves in the penalty area away to our right to get that photo with that wall of glue, all the Chelsea fans celebrating behind them. I mean, Mark made the point in the second half. Nicholas Jackson came off with what we thought was a hamstring problem. He has been flying here, there and everywhere. He's the one who looks like he's going to be the real party animal tonight. But that's just scenes of unbridled joy. That is a long run in the competition, real squad effort as well, Steve. You think about all the different players that have played for Chelsea in the competition and the miles they've done. Competition they didn't necessarily want to be in, but they've done it. They've gone there and won it, achieved something that no other club has done

in terms of adding that trophy, you know, in terms of the European trophies to the list of trophies that they've won, and given these Chelsea fans in Poland a great night tonight. Levi Colwell speaking to TV and Rhys James. Let's just read what they've been saying. Cole will. It's great to be the first club to win everything possible shows how much it means to the fans talked about coming off the bench. I feel like watching from the bench. You can see the spaces on the pitch. You can see how you can help the

team. That's what I did. When I came on the pitch, I could see the gaps. Reese James. It's a great feeling. We knew it would be a tough game as it went on. We grew into it. It's devastating when you know you're not playing in a final. I want to play every game. It's the manager's decision and I have to take the opportunity when it came up. And you know what, Mark, I think Rhys James is well worth talking about here because there are players within this Chelsea group that you think,

well, are they good enough to be part of the Chelsea team at the next step back in the Champions League? There isn't that question mark on Rhys James his issues have been elsewhere haven't they? They have been and that's why there's questions. The questions are is he able to, is he physically able to compete, you know will his body hold up and he went through that horrendous period of injuries and the question was going to be will he come back from it? Will he be able to get back to the Rhys James that we'd seen before and the reason why Chelsea, you know, gave him a long-term contract and, you know, so highly regarded way play for England and we're slowly seeing it. I think there's also an element of also still managing him

in terms of games played, trying to make sure they don't overload him. I mean, you saw at half time, I think he made a massive difference when he came on. I think it was very obvious. There was an enormous amount of calmness, really in the game, no diving in, and his ability on the game, no diving in and his ability on the ball, Pat talked about it a little bit afterwards as well about that first cross into the box where he's just slightly maybe a little bit too heavy on the cross but the perfect distance it was the range finder for Cole Palmer, he clocked in on it and that was the one that they went in there and it was a great delivery in the end of Fernandez but

I think it's really key to have someone like Rhys James at the club, he knows the club, he's come through the ranks and he's a guy that I think if they can keep fit he can lead his team further and further forward and in the direction where they should be. Do you know one thing I would say about Chelsea just now looking at the way they are, even those who are not very keen in Chelsea, you don't think they'll be worse next year. You think they'll probably be as good as they are or probably better. And that is a really major thing when you're going forward because the young players are actually maturing together, they're getting

better, they're understanding the game better and they're believing in themselves and you know they're going to add to it as well so that's that's something you want going forward it's an easy phrase to say but does that team look as if it's going to suddenly fall apart actually no that looks like a group is going to grow and that's a really interesting thing but I keep on make underlining it as it's as does Mark third level trophy in Europe. We're not talking about winning the Champions League yet. There are many, many giant steps to make.

But you look as if they're still making those steps upwards. And do you know what, Mark? I think that's why this conversation is different to pretty much any other Cup final I can remember doing. Because normally the game finishes, you talk about the key players, what next for them, what difference tonight might make. Well, let's look at someone like Jadon Sancho. He scored a great goal in a European final.

I doubt that's gonna change what Chelsea decide to do with him this summer, is it? Yep, possibly not. Yeah, I mean, he's a bit of an anomaly. He struggled for game time for one reason or another. He's a player that I think everybody knows has an incredible amount of ability. It's just trying to tap into it. I mean he's proven it when he played for Dortmund that he can do it for a sustained period of time. It didn't work out at United.

He's been hitting this with Chelsea. The question is, do they keep him? I mean, I know that I think there are blights now to buy him, but they can. There is a get out, but it's still going to cost them a little bit of money. So only time will tell what happens to Jayden Sancho. But I still think there is a really good player in there. He's just got to find his place. And there's a whole list of players that you can go through. Yeah, I mean, there are so many players at Chelsea that I mean, you look at Joel Felix is coming back. I mean, if you look at him, you think,

well, there's no place for him in this team. How is he even going to fit in anywhere? It just doesn't really suit the way they play either. So yeah, I mean, the list goes on. I mean, this is a discussion I think can go for hours. And we haven't even mentioned Nicholas Jackson yet Pat, who's obviously paid off that debt that was mentioned but I think there's a what's next question for for him as well. Do you think he's the man to be Chelsea's lead striker in a Champions League

campaign? He will be at Chelsea next season. He is getting better. I think he's had an affected season this season because of the injuries. He's still young, he's still growing up. People down at Chelsea they often talk about, does anyone really remember that first period of DDA Drogba? Wasn't he that great? It really wasn't. And then he grew and grew and got better and better So if they believe in his abilities and all the raw data is there for Jackson The running, the moves, the pace, it's all there. It all works for him Whether you can trust in him being the one that will do it on his own as the single center forward To get you all the latter stages of the Champions League No, he's not at that standard yet.

He may become that standard over the next few years, but he's not at that standard yet. That's why I say they do need another striker. And I think there are many looking at it, that's why they talk about the likes of De Laap, etc. They do need somebody else to spell it with him, because as we've seen tonight, that chance he had at the end when he sprinted away,

and then the gasket was completely blown before he quite got to the 18-yard line. So no, there's more needed than Jackson, but he's a big part of it. We can hear from the Chelsea manager now. Here's what Enzo Maresca has had to say in his post-match press conference. For sure we improve a lot since we start. We also start to win games in an ugly way. It's something with the young squad that you struggle to do that, but I think, for instance, nothing for this game. We won in a little bit an ugly way. We found the way to win the game that was very important. And then the best picture for me for tonight that make me understand that we were in the right direction

is when we score, the first two guys to celebrate was Malogusto and Benoit, the two that we changed. And this, probably sometimes we judge games, but this for me, for a manager, when you change players that they are not playing good and they are the first that they enjoy the celebration, that means hello, that means that the spirit is good, we go in the right direction, everyone is helping each other and this is a good base to build something important. Hopefully it can be a starting point

to build a winner mentality, you need to win games, you need to win competition and for sure the trophy we won tonight is going to make us better but also I'm very proud about you know the path or the journey we have done in the Premier League that for me is the most difficult competition in the world. You have to be consistent, it's 38 games and this player they show during this. That's why after Nottingham Forest my outburst was a little bit, you know, exaggerated. But the reason why is just because in 38 games you need to be consistent and with young squad, I mean the youngest squad in the history of the Premier League, it's

something unbelievable. Let's finish with proper big picture Enzo Maresca, Ali. Well, Steve, you mentioned this in the build-up. Just talking about what we're talking about there in terms of what's going to go on this summer and all the players coming back and everyone in this squad you have to say real credit to him for steering this ship this season and picking the players for certain competitions and keeping them motivated and keeping everything on track and you know at Christmas time we were talking about then potentially pushing for the Premier League title that fell away pretty quickly but as I say finishing

the season strongly to get the Champions League football and winning the trophy. Managing Chelsea and and all these players and all these young players as well, youngest average age in the Premier League is not an easy job and he's had a fair bit of stick off Chelsea fans as well even towards the end of the season we were talking weren't we about the the performance at Fulham a game they eventually won when he was taking a load of sticks. So he can feel well satisfied, I think, Steve, with the job he has done at Chelsea this season. Yeah. Mark, if you can have a style of football that people don't love, you've got to win. And Enzo Maresca's won. Yeah, they do. And I think maybe it's a case of also him learning along the way to maybe be a little bit flexible,

maybe a little bit of an adaption, maybe be a little bit pragmatic sometimes rather than overplay. Look, I think they're not... there were times in the game they overplayed a little bit, but overall I thought they got the balance pretty well, certainly in the second half. And I think, you know know ultimately you're right winning games getting results winning games achieving things winning trophies is what keeps people on the side and I think for the manager it's so important that he keeps doing that and I agree with what Ali is saying I think he managed this squad this club really really well this season for him the reason I think he's got a massive smile

on his face is that Champions League, tick. Winning the trophy that he said was the most important and the biggest tournament for them this season, the confidence, done, tick. So he's done it, he's delivered the trophy, he's got in the Champions League, and everything has sort of fallen in place for him, his plan.

Could some things have gone better? Of course, but then overall, the grand plan that I think he had has worked. Final thoughts, Pat? Chelsea look stronger, Chelsea are getting better, Chelsea are becoming more mature, Andy will strengthen, but it'll all come down to two words for next season,

I think, call Palmer. Get him back to where he was the season before. Jelsa will have a crack at it. All right that's it thank you everybody on the next episode of the Football Daily. Mina Rizuki, Julian Laron and Christophe Thoreau are with Conor McNamara for the Euroleagues. Thank you so much for listening.