Football Daily - The Debrief: De Zerbi joins Spurs & Japan beat England

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

What can Tottenham expect from Roberto De Zerbi? Kelly Cates unpicks the reaction to the new head coach at Tottenham Hotspur alongside former Spurs keeper Paul Robinson. BBC Sport's Senior Football Correspondent Sami Mokbel gives news of the detail behind the deal, including the surprising news about the lack of relegation clause. Euro Leagues regular Guillem Balague spoke to De Zerbi while he was at Marseille just a few weeks ago - and drops by to explain what Tottenham can expect, while the BBC's Katie Gornall explains why the new appointment hasn't been universally well received. Meanwhile, England were beaten by Japan in their final game on home soil before the World Cup. Paul Robinson and Ian Dennis unpick the performance, while John Murray speaks to manager Thomas Tuchel, Morgan Rogers and Marc Guehi. Plus, hear from Scotland's Andy Robertson, who were beaten by Ivory Coast at the Hill Dickinson Stadium.TIME CODES: 00:30- Sami Mokbel with the details 02:22 - Paul Robinson reaction 04:30 - Guillem Balague reaction 10:15- Fan reaction 15:13- England reaction 22:54 - Thomas Tuchel interview 29:09 - Marc Guehi interview 33:23 - Morgan Rogers interview 36:12 - Andy Robertson interview5 Live Commentaries this week: Wednesday 1st April – 8pm – Women’s Champions League Quarter-Finals - Chelsea v Arsenal Saturday 4th April – 5:15pm – Men’s FA Cup Quarter Finals – Chelsea v Port Vale Saturday 4th April – 8pm – Men’s FA Cup Quarter Finals – Southampton v Arsenal Sunday 5th April – 1pm – Women’s FA Cup Quarter Finals – Arsenal v Brighton Sunday 5th April – 4:30pm - Men’s FA Cup Quarter Finals – West Ham v Leeds

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. He whispers to himself, It's time to put my balls on the dashboard. As he starts the engine. In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious. In 15 years, he's a billionaire.

This is Total Wolf, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive. This week on Good Bad Billionaire, how Toto Wolf made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcast, the debrief with Kelly Case. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily podcast. We will have all the reaction to England's defeat by Japan at Wembley. But we're going to start with the news that Roberto Deserby has been appointed as head coach at Tottenham on a five-year deal.

Former Tottenham keeper Paul Robinson is with us. A senior football commentator, Ian Dennis, will join us later on. But I'm going to start with our senior football correspondent, Sammy Mockbell. Sammy, what are the details of this deal? As you said there, Kelly, five-year deal for Roberto Deserby, but I think the most pertinent piece of information that there isn't a relegation release clause. So given the situation that Tottenham are in at the moment, one point and one place away from the relegation zone,

I think that's quite an important bit of detail, From what I understand, Robert DeZerbe, he's backing himself to obviously keep the club up. But if the unthinkable does happen, he is all in to rebuild the team in the championship. So credit to him, he's got obviously big seven games ahead, given the situation that they're in. But he's in it for the long haul. In it for the long haul, but there is a short-term fix that needs to happen. And is the belief in the club that those skill sets are the same, the same skillsets that can potentially, potentially keep Tottenham in the Premier League,

are the same set of skills that will be needed should they need to be promoted? Yeah, I think there is an understanding that what happens in the next seven games won't necessarily be Roberto Deserby's long-term body of work at Tottenham. I think at the moment it's needs must. There's not going to be enough time

to fit those tactical structures into his team. They need results and they need them now immediately. So I think it's a case of Roberto Deserby, It is simply putting his arm around the players, telling them that you're actually good player, you're international footballers. You should not be in 17th place in the Premier League. And if he can do that,

if he can get on the right side of them straight away and have them running through brick walls for him, then I think he's onto a winner because it's a great club, it's a global brand. If you can get it right, the sky's the limit. Sammy, thanks so much for coming in. We'll let you go and put your head back in the England game now and concentrate on that job this evening.

Thanks so much for coming in to chat to us. Paul, they've had four managers in less than a year. Does signing a five-year contract or signing a manager to a five-year contract seem more than a little optimistic? I think, yeah, definitely, especially when you look at the character of the manager as well and the type of manager that he is. But I think it's a good appointment for Tottenham.

I really do. I think there are managers that are out there and available at the moment, I think some stability and some long-term future for the club. And I think when you look at his record, he's a manager who doesn't care what people think is his own man. He's always delivered under pressure. The only problems that he's had are when the ownership and the director of football are pulled in a different direction,

the project for him unravels very quickly. But I think when you look at the job that he did at Marseille, I mean, the city was behind him very much so. The decision-making at the top of the club maybe wasn't. And I think he was maybe guilty of changing systems and personnel too much towards the end of his tenure. But his initial remit for Tottenham, as we know, is to keep them in the Premier League.

He can't go in there and change the dressing. He can't go and change the players. Some players are going to be coming back from injury. They don't play again till. the 12th of April away at Sunland, which is a massive game. And then six days later, they play Brighton at home. But I think the type of manager is, he's very intelligent, obviously, with his football knowledge. He knows that he goes in there.

He's got to make friends. He's got to make every one of those players play for him. And he's got to make everyone of those players like him, come together as a team, get results. And then at the end of the season, he'll be ruthless. He'll have looked at the club. He'll assess the squad himself already. And he'll know exactly what he wants to do in the summer.

but in the short term it might not be pretty. It might go against his way of playing or his style. I think in the long term, Tottenham will play an open, expansive, high pressing style of football like he's known for. But at the moment, it might be kicking it long, it might be putting it in the corners. It's just about getting through this season

and starting again next season as a Premier League club. And then actually, Tottenham finished 17th last year, the fighting against relegation this year, if they're in the Premier League next season, he can only improve. It's a great project at a fantastic club for him to improve both himself. and the club.

And as Paul said, his last job was at Marseille, where he was until relatively recently. And in January, Roberto Deserbie spoke to Guillem Ballagay about his coaching outlook for a special episode of the Football Daily. Premier League is still the best league in the world, no? It's like NBA in basketball. And then changing country, changing league, changing style of play in different leagues, I can improve. because I think I'm better now than when I came, no, different football culture, different coaches, different players, different football style. The most important, I think, is not to finish the mentality to improve.

I always watch the game, Premier League, Serie A, Bundesliga, to complete my technologies, to improve. improve to be better and better. That was Roberto DeZerby speaking to Euroleague's Guillaume Balagay, who joins us now. Guillaume, he started off by talking about the Premier League as the best league in the world. So how has time away from that league changed him? Well, he adds later on that he was following the Premier League very, very closely, Kelly. And certainly he's got a essence which he will not change, even if he's got few games. before the end of the season and with a clear target which may be new in his

CV of a top six club not getting relegated but certainly he I think in every experience he's had he's learned something about his relationship to the players how to deliver the stuff that he's got to the liver and perhaps even what kind of people he should be working with him and this is absolutely crucial there'd be a lot of stories now telling you that in every club is being things broke down and he is to blame. I put it a different spin to the story.

How about if you get the right people that works with him? Because you are talking about manager's favorite manager. You talk to Pepe Wardiola, to Iraa, to Unai and they all tell you, are you watching what Deserbe is doing? And they've all learned from him. And the kind of conversations that Pepoardiola, who is a personal friend and the Zerbi have got, go to a level of knowledge that not many people have.

and Pep, Unai, I've heard them say if there is a manager that could take football to the next level that's the Zerbi, it's just that I say he has to have the right context, the right environment, and the right people that understand what he's trying to do and allow him to do it.

And that's going to be absolutely key as we head into the end of this season because he needs to have the players who are able to take those ideas on board and implement them. So what is it about Deserby that suggests that he can get more out of these players then this myriad of different managers have been able to do so far.

You could question if he's always got the targets with these teams. I mean, Marseilles, first season, yes, second season, not so much. Brighton taken to Europe. South Solo, just doing exceptionally well. So, yes, he's normally met the targets. But one thing you cannot question is that wherever he's been, the player has learned a lot. And players tell you about the first two weeks

of when he arrives, this is when he's got time, of course, and they're just like, they hate it because they've been taking out of the comfort zone. They've been pushed to a limit that they didn't know they had. And through doing that, those that actually jump the hurdles

and go to the other side become better players, no doubt about that. Who would have said that Don could actually play the ball from the back? And absorbed pressure and just pass the ball around. Well, he was convinced that he could do it and like him, many others. So there's no doubt that he can improve the players.

I think he's going to take, it's going to be a double job he's going to be doing now. One, there is a target, a clear target, or not getting relegated. Two, find that which one of the players he's got can work with his system and the way he wants to do things. Otherwise, he will just get rid of them and start a new one because, as he just heard before, he just doesn't care what people think because he's got a clear idea where he's going. With that, that clear idea and with his admiration for the Premier League, Are you surprised that he's taken a job where he may next season be trying to get promoted from the championship? Not really because you're talking about financially, perhaps even historically, one of the top six clubs in the Premier League.

And many would like to be in the situation that spurs are in, in terms of what they've got, the stadium, the finances, etc. So with that in mind, and if they're giving you a five-year deal, the plan would be to actually just get them back to where they belong really. And in that conversation I had with him two months ago, obviously, you know how he works, Kelly. It was like, from the press officer, do not talk about the Premier League. You cannot talk about that. Don't ask about Manchester United.

And then you have to go around it. But as soon as I mentioned the Premier League, that's it. There he goes. It just goes off on talking about it. Because he wanted to come back, wanted to be here. Certainly the context of Marseille is very special.

He worked for a while, and it didn't work at the end because the people that were ahead of him, the bosses, didn't just think that he was doing a good job. Either right or wrong, whatever it was, the synergy broke down. From the moment it did, and this is three, four months ago, I think he had in his mind, okay, as soon as I can, I have to go to the Premier League again.

And he's back in the Premier League as Spurs' new head coach. Guillaume, thank you so much for joining us. Good to talk to you, as always. There are, of course, many aspects to being a manager with the profile of the Premier League club and the appointment has not been universally well received by Tottenham fans. Let's bring in sport correspondent Katie Gournell who's been speaking to some of them. Katie, just tell me a little bit about the concerns

that some Spurs fans have about the appointment of Deserby. Well, Kelly, there's a real strength of feeling about this and it relates to Deserby's time at Marseille when he controversially signed and supported Mason Greenwood. Now, just to remind everyone, Greenwood, when he was at Manchester United, in January 2020, he was arrested and then later charged with attempted rape and assault. Now, the striker denied the charges, and in 2023, those charges were dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service after key witnesses withdrew their cooperation from the investigation. DeSerbie, 19 days after he was appointed as boss of the Le Guant's side, Marseille, signed Mason Greenwood. And then in November last year, he described the striker as a good lad saying,

and I quote, he had paid in a strong way for what happened. And it's those comments that have particularly angered many people. Now, tonight, Tottenham supporters trust, one of the fans groups who have come out and said that they cannot support Deserby's appointment. They released a statement calling his comments ill-judged and deeply offensive to a significant number of supporters and said if those remarks reflect his genuine views, they cast a troubling shadow over the values of the club we love. And Katie, one of the people you were talking to is Spurs fan

and Women of the Lane co-founder, Ali Speechley. I think for me, especially someone who I coached football for the best part of 10 years, and I know that actually you can't really separate out the character of a coach from their ability to then coach players. And the reason I say that is because I think, think actually the best coaches are authentic coaches and are coaches that are true to themselves. And so my issue with Roberto Deserbie is that he has shown his character very clearly over the

years, but specifically with his treatment of Mason Greenwood, the fact that he hired him as a player and then continue to publicly back him and support him, sympathise with him around, you know, what a difficult time Mason Greenwood has supposedly been through. And for me, that's just unforgivable. And I think that speaks to the character of Deserby. And therefore, I don't want him anywhere near my football club. How do you think this has affected your relationship with the club? So, you know, as you said, I'm a Dyer-Tottenham fan.

I've been a fan since I was eight years old. And I love the club dearly. It means everything to me. I don't think that the club will be. be that fuss necessarily about how I feel about this, but I know that I am. So in terms of my relationship with them, it's massively impacted it. And in all honesty, I don't have any intention now of going to the stadium because I don't feel safe around men like him. And it's as simple as that. Katie, Ali Speechley was saying that she doesn't think the club will care

about the opinion of people like her. Is there a plan amongst the those supporters who are against the appointment of Deserbie to kind of encourage the club to listen. Are there protests, for example, planned? Well, people do feel very strongly about this, as we've heard. Whether that becomes a formal protest of the ground, you know, we'll have to see, but it's clearly more than just online noise.

Now, in relation to Tottenham Hotspur, we understand that the club and Deserby are both sensitive to the Mason Greenwood comments and the sentiment. It was something that was carefully considered and discussed as part of the process to appoint Deserbie. And, you know, the Italian, he knows that he's going to be asked about this in his first press conference ahead of that Sunderland game.

There's going to be questions coming on it. He'll be expecting that. And I think he'll be choosing his words very carefully. Katie, thank you very much. That was a sport correspondent, Katie Gournell. It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack. he whispers to himself.

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Podcast Watch on YouTube Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily podcast, The Debrief with Kelly Cates. Here at Wembley, it finished England nil, Japan, 1. Senior football commentator Ian Dennis, and former England number one,

Paul Robinson, still with me. Deno, not a game in which England sparkled. There were reasons for that. They were missing plenty of senior squad members from their starting 11, and in fact, even from the bench. But Japan looked impressive. Pan did look impressive. Yeah, the first Asian side to beat England, to deserve win too. They carried the greater threat. They scored through Matoma. It was a well-created goal after 23 minutes. They also hit the crossbar in that first half. And England struggled to break them down. And I think you're right, Kelly. I mean, you could point out that there's no Harry Kane, who we were expecting him to captain England tonight. But as a precautionary measure, he didn't do so due to a minor issue. They weren't prepared to take that risk. So they were without him. Saka.

Rice, James, Bellingham, established players, and it was the least inexperienced side that Thomas Tuchel has named in his 12 games in charge. However, that said, you know, ahead of the game, he was talking about the possibility, what do you do without Harry Kane? He says, well, I've got a few ideas. And he tried this false nine,

which England tried under Lee Carsley against Greece in November, sorry, October 2024, didn't seem to work that particular night in a two-one defeat. And I don't think it worked tonight. either. You asked Paul Robinson ahead of the game who's playing themselves out of position. I think Phil Foden is because back in November, Phil Foden was being talked about as a regular. He's now gone 22 games without a goal, didn't really get himself involved. Palmer was trying

to initiate something. Rogers was playing out wide right. Didn't seem to it to come off and only when they made the changes late on. Harry McGuire, ironically as a defender, going up front and Rashford on the left did they have and Solanke coming on as a natural striker did they seem to get any sort of like balance back into the team? He didn't come on as a central defender Harry McGuire, did he? He threw him on as a central striker and they went longer, they went more direct and like I said at one point in the game

Harry Maguire within five, ten minutes of being on the pitch he's had more attempts on target than the whole front four in the first half and that just shows England lacked width at times they lacked creativity with any type of pace the possession that they had, the territorial advantage they dominated. You look at all the stats, you go on the BB website and look at the stats. Other than the one at the top

that's the most important one, they've won in every category. But actually, they didn't create enough in the final third. They weren't quick enough in possession. And it's only when they made the changes and reverted back to the formation with Solanke up front as that Harry Kane figure,

if you like. Marcus Rashford, I thought, had an impact when he came on. I thought Lewis Hall had a good impact when he came on, provided whip, footballs into the box. But in all honesty, I think tonight provided more questions than answers.

Yeah, maybe, except for potential Actually, one of the answers is that if Harry Kane were to be unavailable for whatever reason in any match in the World Cup, it's maybe a like-for-like substitution rather than a change of approach from England. Is that going to be the best answer? Yeah, I think so. I think that's one thing that he will have seen tonight. I don't think that trial, you know, the trial with the four attackers, they just got in each other's way. They played far too now. We ran into each other spaces and they couldn't really make anything happen for themselves in the final third.

and it wasn't until they had that central figurehead striker that took the attention of the central defenders because when you're playing with those types of players, when you're playing with the Morgan Rogers, Cole Palmer, Anthony Gordon, Phil Foden, they're at their best when there's space in between the midfield and the defenders. So what Solanke does or what Harry Kane does, he occupies the back four.

He pushes the back four away, and those players then have the space in the pockets of areas where they can deploy their talent best. But they just had four quality players in each of the space, of the Japanese defence, unable to get him behind. I also wonder about Olly Watkins, who wasn't named in the squad. If these two games against Uruguayan tonight have actually enhanced his claims as well,

because what Olly Watkins, A, is proven at tournament football, you look at the configuration of the 26-man squad. For 2022, the last World Cup, they only took two strikers, Kane and Wilson. For the Euros in 2024, they took three recognised strikers, Kane, Tony and Watkins. I think they'll only take two this time. because of the options of playing, maybe playing Bellingham in a more advanced role as well.

But I think the fact that Watkins can run him behind by him not playing, I think he's actually possibly enhanced his own claims in a bizarre sort of way. Well, do you know what? When you look at the, you know, talk about Olly Watkins as well, I know Ivan Tony's being in the squad. Thomas Tugles had one look at him and he's not looked again.

But you look at the former Ivan Tony's in. He's the top scorer in the Saudi Pro League. He scored 25 goals this season. And you look at his ability to take penalties as well. I know that's not the be-all and end. all of it, but I just think there's more to his game as well, whether he looks there. That's a question that maybe not

be quite answered yet from Thomas Tupy. England have never been shy of kind of going into tournaments with this idea, particularly under Garrow Southgate, winning games by the smallest of margins, and that, of course, is what penalties can come down to. The noise from the over 7,000 Japan fans

tucked away in the corner of Wembley is just incredible. The players are still out there, long after the final whistle has gone and they're celebrating, with their fans. They look really impressive. They look really exciting, look really creative

in a way that England didn't in this game. There are a team who've developed throughout various tournaments, but maybe in Europe we don't see much of Japan. So every time we get to a World Cup, we go, could Japan be the dark horses? Have we passed them being dark horses now? Well, I think there could be a surprise package,

certainly. I mean, I actually commented on their two games at the Caliphas Stadium in Qatar at the last World Cup, where they came from behind, They beat both Spain and Germany by two goals to one and actually top the group in the last World Cup. And if you look at their record against European nations,

they're now unbeaten in their last eight matches. Their last defeat against the European side was Belgium in the 2018 World Cup. The manager has been in place since 2018. They're well structured. They've got talent. They're well drilled. They pose a threat on the break. They're in Group F with Netherlands, Tunisia,

and then obviously the winners of Sweden, Poland. So that'd be Sweden. I think they've got a great chance. Really do. Not of winning it, but going a long way in the competition. They've proved that they're hard to beat. I think they showed susceptibility towards the end when England actually up the tempo

and up there the quality of their play, especially defending from set plays they struggled with. But like you say, all the stats, when you look at where they've been recently, I mean, that's five games in a row that they've won now. I mean, they only conceded three in the ten games and the qualifying campaign. So they are a team that are very, very difficult to break down.

In fact, that's five successive wins, and it includes beating Brazil when they were 2-0 down to come back to win 3-2. So you're looking at credentials, they're certainly showing it. Yeah, Japan really tough opposition for England this evening, but still looking for the positives from that England performance, of which there weren't many but one and one player that caught your eye, Paul, was Elliot Anderson.

I thought he was outstanding, both defensively and offensively. I think he's continued his club form and the way that he's developed as a player this season. He could well become a key part of Thomas Tuchel's plans for the summer alongside Declan Rice. If he is to play the four at the back with the two holding midfielders, it's looking very much like

it's Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice in those positions. I just think what he gives you defensively, he covers so much ground, he wins the ball back quickly, but then he also turns defence into attack. England were guilty of been slow in possession and pedestrian-like,

but every time he got the ball, he looked forward, he tried to make something happen. He understands both sides of the game very, very well. John Murray's waiting to talk to Thomas Tuchel. Yes, the big fight for England are yet to come this summer, 78 days to go, Thomas Tuchel. This wasn't the send-off that you wanted.

How are you all feeling about what happened tonight? It's not a send-off, come on. There are like 100 matches to be played now in England and in Europe and wherever. So it's March. It's not a send-off. But of course we're disappointed, but we knew before that this will be a tough exam for us because both teams, I knew it before, arrive in their strongest lineup. And they will take it very, very seriously.

We were like world-drilled teams, they're both in the top 20 and the world. We knew that this can happen because we had a completely new team in camp. And then 10 new players arrived. Suddenly we had six, seven, eight injuries after the first match. And could not play with the group that we wanted to play. It had again a huge mix-up. And, yeah, did our best. I think the effort was there, intensity was there.

It was difficult to break Japan down. because they're a well-drilled team. We got punished for not a lot for one counter-attack and from there it was difficult. In the end, we created 19 shots, but only, I don't know, three or four, five on target. And, yeah, couldn't score. It would have helped us, of course.

We made life ourselves difficult in the first half because the field was way too narrow. Second half, we played a bit wider and more aggressive, took a little bit more risk. And it looked a bit better, but we couldn't prove it in the result. So, yeah, it was a tough exam. And now we have to take our learnings.

You know very well what the main storyline will be, I guess that you lose your captain, Harry Kane at the 11th hour, not able to play. And the storyline will be, what of England if there's no Harry Kane? Yeah, it's not only Harry Kane who's missing, but of course Harry Kane is missing. The question is, what is Tottenham without Harry Kane?

What is Bayern Munich without Harry Kane? So it's just like you rely on one of the best goalscores whoever played this game, so where's the problem? It's just reality. And you gave Phil Forden the chance to play in that position. Do you feel that he's been able to further his cause at all over these two matches, Phil? It's not about Phil and not about Cole in particular, but of course we want from our strikers whoever played today in offensive positions, we want offensive actions, we want

we want we want runs, we want dribblings, we want dropping a shoulder, we want winning one-on-one, We want that they take risks, that they are creative and dangerous. We made it difficult for them because we narrowed the field down by ourselves. But, yeah, of course, we can do better. What encouraging words would you have for England supporters who are thinking? It's just March. It's just March. It's March and put it into perspective. Look who was in camp.

Look how many players are missing. Look how many players are injured. Look at the opponents. It's not, it's disappointing. percent and we are disappointed but it's not the end of the world and these things can happen in a March camp which is for us basically a particular camp because so many players are highly highly invested in in major decisions in club football they don't come fresh at all they don't come with fresh legs at all if then seven

eight players drop out of camp and and leaders leaders like Bukayo and and Harry and and Declan Rice And Chute is not available like guys who can push and bring a quality and leadership. And John Stone's not in camp. So then it can look like this. It's unpleasant and we don't like it. And I'm the first one to admit that I hate losing,

but that's just a reality of it. And it has not a lot to do with what will happen in June. The message is clear, Thomas. Thank you very much. Good luck. I'm just thinking about Thomas Huckel, who's now got these decisions to make. He's had his last look at this group of players

before he named the squad. Denner, you were saying you think Phil Foden may have potentially played himself out of a place in that squad. This feels like a different approach from an England manager where it's not about just putting the best players in and moulding the team to them. It's about looking at who works well,

who can deliver in their position and who can perform on the day. And it doesn't matter how good you are. If you don't fill that role, you're not in the squad. Well, he talked before about Foden, Bellingham and Kane. Cannot all play if we keep the same structure? He'd also said previously Palmer, Foden, Rogers, Bellingham, Gibbs White, he can't take them all.

So he's been very honest, and I'm sure he's been very candid too with the players as well. Over this last international break, a week to 10 days. I also think he does things deliberately, because what he wants to do, he wants, like any England manager, you want to go there with a group of players that are a cohesive unit that get on very, very well.

And I think that he's been testing Harry Maguire in the build-up to this match. If John Stones is fit, your first central defensive partnership is Mark Gahey and John Stones. The question would be, would Harry McGuire go to a World Cup when he's previously been one of those

go-to central defenders and either be a squad member? and after the Uruguay game he was asked by the press where is he in the pecking order and he said well he's currently behind Chalibah and then all of a sudden people have made a lot about that I'm wondering if that's a test

to see how Harry McGuire responds to not starting tonight to see if he could go as a squad member of the 26 rather than as a recognized first starter but we saw the impact that he can provide off the bench as an emergency striker I mean as daft as that sounds

Harry McGuire coming off the bench when the game's in a situation like that, he caused a real threat. And Manchester United have used him like that to great effect. Under 10 Hague, wasn't it? Who would bring him on at the end of European games at times. We're going to head into the tunnel now where Mark Gahey is waiting to talk to John Murray. Yes, here he is.

Chance to speak to Mark Gay for the first time as England captain. So we'll come on to the match in a moment or two, Mark, but a proud moment for you tonight. Yeah, I don't really like talking about myself because it's a team of sport and it's about the team. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm grateful to be given this opportunity to captain my country. So it's a very nice moment, yeah. You're a natural captain, aren't you? You've proved that in your club career.

I wouldn't say I'm a natural captain. I'd say others maybe see that in me more than I see that in myself, I'd say. But I'd happily take the responsibility on. Like I said, it's an honour to have done that tonight. Not many players get that opportunity, so the fact that I've had that, it's a real blessing. I presume it was a late call that you found out that you'd be kept. When was it? It was pre-match. Pre-match, Gaffer just come up to me and just told me. I expected it to be pickers, because why wouldn't it be?

But yeah, it's a nice, nice moment. Is it something that you have dreamt of to use a stereotype? Nah, not at all, not at all. You don't. For me, even playing for England isn't something that even... dreamt about. It's not something that I thought of just because of how far or unattainable I thought it would be at the time. So the fact that I'm here just playing is a blessing. I'm truly grateful. So to have worn the armband is more than that. Obviously a pro moment for you, but an incredibly

pro moment for your family as well. I'm sure. I'm not spoke to them, so I don't know. I'm sure they're not here tonight, but I'm sure, yeah. Of course, you would have wanted it to be a win. Yes. I just I think it's important to put things into perspective. I'd say that's why you have these tests in March. You play a good team against Japan, very well drilled. A team is going to the World Cup and they're going to be looking to be qualifying or getting out of their group themselves. So it's important that we put things into perspective, learn from these moments.

And on the whole, we've had actually a really good campaign. It's the first loss that we've had. So let's move on, to be ready for the World Cup come June. And just stick to what we've been. stick to what we've been doing and, you know, have each other's backs. Yeah, there'll be no panic. No, not at all. Not at all. We've so many experienced players in this group, I think, you know, onwards and upwards, but it's very important that we learn and improve and make sure that we're

ready when it's time, when it's time. Thanks for coming over, Mark, and congratulations tonight. Thank you. Bye. Mark Gehie, England captain for the evening in the absence of Harry Kane talking to John Murray. And you were saying earlier, Deno, that you would have him in your England starting 11. In fact, you and John Murray put your England starting 11th onto the website. You've gone for the exact same players, but in a slightly different formation. So alongside Gayee in the centre of England defence, in front of Jordan Pickford, John Stones, with Rhys James at right back and Nico Riley at left back.

You've gone, Rice and Anderson is the double pivot. And then Saka Rogers, Gordon, and Harry Kane up front, obviously. And then John Murray's gone for the same players slightly differently arranged. Is there anything that you've seen that would change that? No, I don't think so. I mean, the reason that that's based on was the fact that I think with the heat, Thomas Tuchel, and when he was asked about the absence of Harry Kane, he said, I've got some ideas if Kane's not available and we have some options.

He's clearly tried one of the options with a false nine. The other one is for him to play around an hour, come off the field, and then maybe play Bellingham in an advance role providing Bellingham doesn't start. Rogers more suited in the 10. Rogers was extremely impressive when he started four successive matches last autumn in that position.

I don't think they utilised the best of him on the right to accommodate the position, the formation that they tried tonight. And that was the reason why I went with a team that I did with a caveat. It depends on the injuries to John Stones and Reese James at centreback and right back. Let's head back down to the tunnel.

John Murray is with Morgan Rogers. Yes, he is. Morgan Rogers just making. us way over. Hi Morgan, thanks for coming over. Not the way that England wanted the send-off to the World Cup here at Wembley to be. Yeah, of course not. We go out to win every game and to play at our best and we'll quite well at it and you get punished in international football they were a really good side and they took their chance and we didn't but that happens. It learns about each other. We keep moving, we keep going, we keep pushing and keep working

this isn't the end goal by all means. Of course it's something to look at and something to improve on, but we know what we're looking forward to, we know we're all in line, we know what's ready, and we'll be ready for that moment when it comes in the summer.

Nevertheless, is there a flat feeling in the dressing room? Yeah, of course, but there's a bigger picture of things and this isn't the bill and end all, I think. Fans and stuff are going to be disappointed. The media are going to talk about, we're not ready, we're not in the road, we're not ready yet, and we're not going to, we're not favourites and stuff.

We don't look at that at all. We know how good we are. We know how good we can be. We believe we can challenge any team in the world. It's about showing that and being at our best when it comes to that. So still are a few months away from that. So we'll learn, we'll work and we'll be ready. Was that the message from the manager?

Did he speak to you in the dressing room, though? Yeah, that was it to stay positive, to know what we can control from now until then. And we'll be ready, as I said. We look around that group. I'll go into that dressing room, and there's bags of quality, bags of potential,

bags of experience. We've got everything as a nation to go and compete at the highest level, and we know that, and it's just about focusing, doing everything right, looking at each other and looking at ourselves and being the best we can, ready to go.

It hasn't dimmed your enthusiasm for what might lie ahead this summer. The thought of that, despite tonight, must be tremendously exciting for you to go to your first World Cup. No, I've played enough games in football to know that one game,

game can mean absolutely nothing. Of course, we're going to take the negatives, take the positives, we're going to dissect it and know what we need to approve, but no way is this us. Since the managers come in, you can see the results. You don't take the anomalies. You take what it's been doing as a whole. And as a whole, we've been really good, really positive,

really good performances in the qualification. So this game isn't going to define us. But, of course, it's still something to look at because we want to try and win every game, and we believe we can. So, yeah, we'll look at it, but we know how good. we are. And you're okay, you're hobbling a bit?

I'm always hobbling. At the end of the season's always like that. A lot of games, but I enjoy the ride. I enjoy it and I just want to be out there. Look forward to seeing you in the summer. Thank you. Thanks, Morgan. Cheers.

Thank you. And we can get some reaction from Scotland after they were beaten 1-0 by Ivory Coast. Andy Robertson is with Jane Lewis. Andy, how do you assess that performance? It was a tough old battle out there, but improvements in the second half, positives to take? Yeah, big improvements. I thought, obviously we changed the system. We made nine changes.

I think you've seen that in the first. We've not played five at the back for a while now. But it's a system that's really worked for us. You know, obviously qualified with two euros with that system. So obviously the managers, you know, try and, you know, both systems because you need to play more than one way. And I thought second half then we really got to grips with, you know, where we needed to be, especially without the ball. And yeah, you know, I thought we caused them problems the last 20 minutes. I thought, obviously, they were 1-0, but we were the team, you know, pushing forward. We were the team trying to create. We could have had certainly one goal, maybe even two.

So, yeah, look, it's one of the games. It's a friendly, you know, we want to win these games. Of course we do. We're trying to win these games, but we're also trying stuff. You've seen that with the amount of changes we made and things like that. And, you know, the goal comes from us just being in a new system, committing too many bodies in the box. We get caught away with a counterattack, which can't really happen.

After such a good start, first 10 minutes, we were excellent. So a lot to learn, but I think, you know, really good signs, especially in the second half. And, you know, I think the fans that stayed behind after the full-time whistle showed their appreciation which is much appreciated. You obviously made, as you mentioned there, a lot of changes for the first half and then the changes kept on coming

in the second half. That shows the kind of strength and depth that you must feel that you have that can affect games and you'll need to do that at the World Cup. Yeah, and that's where players missing as well. We've not got Hickey here, Doak, Shankland, people that have been in a round of squad for a long time and it shows you how many options we've got. So we made nine changes today and, you know,

every one of the lads can step up to the play. And even the lads that didn't play over the two games, you know, are fantastic players. So it shows you the amount of quality we've got, it shows you the amount of quality we've now got in Scotland in the squad that the manager is going to have a headache in the summer. And it's just up to us now to go back to our clubs, play as well as we can and really get excited for the summer.

And I hope everyone to see. Scotland, of course, already qualified for the World Cup. And that was Scotland Captain Andy Robertson talking to Jane Lewis after a 1-0 defeat by the Ivory Coast at Hill Dickinson Stadium. Barber was watching that one. Aley, in terms of the performance, what we heard from Andy Robertson there, what we saw across the 90 minutes,

was a definite improvement in the second half. But, as he said, a lot of experimentation. Yeah, and he mentioned they reverted back to that 352 system, which Steve Clark played a bit at the beginning of his time as Scotland. I imagine they've gone back to more of a 433 of late, but there was definitely a disjointed element, particularly in the first half to Scotland's performance.

And it is back-to-back defeats and that is disappointing for Scotland, but two tricky, tricky friendlies and they did just lose those games by a single goal. The glaringly obvious similarities between the two games is the lack of cutting edge in the final third and Scotland will need to figure out a way to fix that before heading to the World Cup.

Next up for them though, a game at Hamden against Curisle at the end of May and then it's over to the USA. Ely, thank you and thank you to Ian Dennis and to Paul Robinson. That is all for this episode. The next episode of the Football Daily podcast will be Aaron Paul with 72 plus the EFL podcast.

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