Football Daily - The Debrief: Liverpool inch closer to Premier League title

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Should James Tarkowski have been sent off in Liverpool’s 100th Merseyside derby win? Former Liverpool defender Stephen Warnock joins Steve Crossman and correspondent John Murray inside Anfield to discuss Liverpool’s 1-0 win over Everton which left them needing 13 points from their remaining Premier League games in order to lift the title. They discuss the controversial moments of the game – should James Tarkowski have received a red card for his challenge, and should Diogo Jota’s goal have been given as offside? Hear from managers Arne Slot and David Moyes, as well as Caoimhin Kelleher and Jarrad Branthwaite. Plus, on a busy night of Premier League football elsewhere, hear from Kieran McKenna whose Ipswich side picked up an important three points in their bid to avoid relegation.TIME CODES:01:20 – Reflections on the Merseyside derby 09:45 - Caoimhin Kelleher 14:15 – Jarrad Branthwaite 19:55 – David Moyes 21:35 – Arne Slot 25:45 – Kieran McKennaCommentaries:Wednesday 2nd April PREMIER LEAGUE: Liverpool v Everton. PREMIER LEAGUE: Newcastle v Brentford. PREMIER LEAGUE: Bournemouth v Ipswich.Friday 4th April WOMENS NATIONS LEAGUE: England v Belgium. WOMENS NATONS LEAGUE: Wales v Denmark.Saturday 5th April PREMIER LEAGUE: Crystal Palace v Brighton. PREMIER LEAGUE: Aston Villa v Nottingham Forest.Sunday 6th April PREMIER LEAGUE: Fulham v Liverpool. PREMIER LEAGUE: Brentford v Chelsea. PREMIER LEAGUE: Spurs v Southampton. PREMIER LEAGUE: Manchester United v Manchester City.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily podcast, the debrief with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. We are inside Anfield where Liverpool have just beaten Everton by a golden ill in the Merseyside Derby when we came on air earlier this evening. It was still light in Liverpool, the first time. We're going to see the first time. We're going to see the first time. We're going to see the first time at the Merseyside Derby when we came on air earlier this evening, it was still. Life in

Liverpool now pitch black. Of course, I can already see over the top of the cop there. The traffic jams beginning to form as fans in red and blue make their way out of Anfield Liverpool 12 points clear eight games to go everton starting a hugely difficult run, but they are 14 points clear of the bottom three reaction on the way. It was 17 points, but it's which got a rare win to one at Bournemouth. We're

going to hear from it switch boss. Karen McKenna, the best of the reaction from the nights of the Premier League games as well. Manchester City and Newcastle. They stayed fourth and fifth after their victory. City beat Leicester to Neil Newcastle to one winners over Brentford Villa two points behind Newcastle. They won 3-0 at Brighton. Another goal for Marcus Rashford. 2-2 for him. The other game finished. Southampton won.

Crystal Palace won. We will also hopefully bring you some reaction from here inside Anfield. Stephen Warnock is with us. Correspondent John Murray is here as well. John, Liverpool weren't great, but they don't need to be great right now. No, not pretty. But Liverpool got what they came for. A win, don't need to be great right now. No, not pretty but Liverpool got what they came for, a win however it came to be and it was secured by a jinking run and finish from

Diogo Jota just short of the hour mark. There was a question of offside in the build-up but VAR said no to that but not as much of a question as there was in the first 15 minutes over whether James Tarkovsky should have been sent off. Referee Sam Barrett showed a yellow after the Everton captain's powerful defensive tackle clattered Alexis McAllister on the follow-through. It looked nasty but VAR left it at yellow, a big talking point. However, at the end, the final whistle brought great relief on the eve of the Grand National meeting here on Merseyside. It's a difficult hurdle cleared for Liverpool, their 100th win over Everton in all competitions, and they are edging closer to that 20th title. Now 13 more points would guarantee them the title. Steven, the thing about Liverpool in the situation they've got themselves is,

even if they don't play well, it only takes one moment of class, one moment of composure from Diogo Jota, and the rest of it just doesn't count for anything. Because of what they've done in the rest of the season, what we've seen tonight, they don't have to be any better than that to win the league. No, and the great thing is when you win a league title is no one looks back over the record books

and says what you've done, how the games were. It's just who lifts the title at the end of it. And that's all Liverpool care about, it's all Liverpool fans care about at the moment. I think when you think about the way Liverpool have played this year, the first half of the season was very controlled, very organized in where they played. Teams found it very difficult to break them down.

That was a little bit different from the start of the year. And what we're seeing now is that teams are starting to find ways to get at Liverpool to find a way through. But what they did today is they rode their luck a little bit with the Beto chance that hits the post. And they just stayed in the game and gave themselves an opportunity to wait for that moment of magic.

But they needed it from one of the players who wasn't really playing that well, but Diogo Jota provided that. the the best. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that before your strike has not been at their best, although they can live across the line with the strike is not being at the best. They're doing it, but it's very difficult. They're making it harder for themselves.

That's a good point. Do you think it is a concern? You could put virtual van Dyck into that as well in terms of a top player who. Isn't necessarily performing at their best at the minute. Is it a concern? Well, I think Van Dyck was just tonight. I thought he was. I think he's played well in other games, but I just think he got ruffled a bit in the first half.

I thought second half he was a lot better, composed himself, he won them battles with Beto that he wasn't winning in the first half. So I don't necessarily see it as them. My concerns to three midfielders, they look dead on the feet, they really do. McAllister doesn't look anywhere near the player he was. He's passing the control of games,

has sort of run away from a little bit. Gravenbeck doesn't look like he can get back at players. He doesn't, when you think about the start of the season and the way he was playing up until the new year, the drive and runs from midfield and we don't see that anymore. So I think he struggled to rotate that area more than he'd like to. I think one thing we might see in the summer is his backup in that area to make sure that he's got that ability to rotate the players because they're all internationals as well. So they're all playing for the teams. You think of Sir Boszlaj as well. He looks a little bit jaded of energy as well.

So there's work to be done, but it's very difficult at the end of the season because if you're a successful team, you play more games, more minutes, and that's what's catching up with Liverpool at this moment in time. Before I do any more Diogo Jota eulogising John Murray, there will certainly be Everton fans listening who will say, but that goal shouldn't have stood. No, as I said there, there was a question over offside. You thought, Stephen, that it would be ruled out,

but PGMOL decided otherwise, the video assistant referee Paul Tienny tonight. Yeah it's an interesting one because Diaz is still behind Tarkovsky and as the ball is played in the pass is aimed at Diaz and Tarkovsky is in front of him he reacts to the ball steps in makes a clearance and doesn't control the ball as such because he feels that Diaz is going to compete for the ball and Diaz makes a movement towards the ball. Now as a defender, you've got to react to that. You cannot not react to that. So in my eyes there, Diaz is active. So Diaz is now become active on the pitch and he's interfering with the proximity around Tarkovsky. So for me, that is that's active and, that's active and that shouldn't have stood. And there'll

be Liverpool fans calling me for everything right at this moment. But by the letter of the law and being an ex player, I'm thinking, I hate this rule. It really bugs me because I say, oh, he's not active. He didn't interfere. He did interfere. And that's an issue that we've got with the offside rule. But right at the time, you were adamant, weren't you? And you said, this will be ruled out. Yeah, I was, because I just felt it. I can understand why. The Everton players felt that as well, by the way.

Did you see? I mean, I don't know if it was a bit of pantomime to kind of almost try and convince the officials that, oh, no, this blatantly shouldn't be given. But as it was happening, I mean, I was pulled into it, because I watched it thinking, oh, well, this is definitely going to be disallowed. Because I looked down, John, I saw Brantwick

giving a couple of thumbs up. And Jordan Pickford had the ball in the goal mouth, didn't he going to be disallowed. Because I looked down, John, I saw Brandtwit giving a couple of thumbs up. And Jordan Pickford had the ball in the goal mouth, didn't he? That's right. Yeah, I mean, Brandtwit went straight to referee Barrett. But you know, it's a judgment call. Well, this is a problem within the rule book, John. And this is where it stems from.

Because they look through the list of things, and they go, was he trying or was he interfering with play? No. Well, actually he is if you've played the game and understand the game. And if you went in and spoke to all ex-professional players within the training centers, wherever they are, and said, is he active in this position?

They'd all say, well, he's affecting me 100%. But there's a tick box sort of list within the offside rules and that's an issue. You've got to use common sense at times and you've got to understand the game. And I keep on harping back to it and people say, yeah, but if you support a team, then will it actually happen? Well, you need players in the VAR booth to understand the game and to say why it's affecting them and how quickly you can get that message across to the officials. I just think it's a really poor decision. I think we will reach a point somewhere down the line, maybe years ahead, where that is the case, don't you? Where players will be.

There are fast track courses now, aren't they? Really good. I was reading a Gregor Robertson piece in the Times when he'd sort of gone and been on the course and watched it happen. So they are sort of doing a fast track to try and make that happen. Yeah, I think the big thing is, is that what you've got to understand is, they know the rules better than the players because they need to know everything as it happens.

But what they've got to understand is, is the movements in the game, the understanding of when tackles happen, why they happen, why players go to ground, why they try and ride tackles and things like that. When players cut across and then they're clipped by players, it's understanding those movements that we've done for our whole careers,

and that's what you've got to bring into that VAR booth. It's nothing to do with what team you support, what team you're played for, because at the end of the day, your pride is on the line and your professional pride and your integrity is on the line. You cannot be called into questioning your integrity when you're making decisions. It's got to be just for the game and that's all that matters. Is the key thing then for you, Steven, and you said it before about Diaz making a move, do you feel like Diaz makes a move towards the ball?

And if he hadn't, would that have meant that he isn't active in your eyes? Because even though he's there, does he have to actively do something to make a difference? Is he allowed to just be there or just by his presence? Should that mean he's offside? This is very difficult to explain when we're on radio because visually you want to see it. But for talking, say you're still behind me now two or three yards away and you're at the back of me I've got my but my shoulders on the half turn Knowing where you are because I'm thinking you're there. We'll come back to it Just got to jump in quickly there because we can bring you some reaction from the tunnel

Queven Keller is down there the Liverpool goalkeepers with Gary flinter. Thank you Steve So then the first question has to be, when did you know you were playing this evening? I found out about yesterday, came in the morning for training and then was told maybe Ali was at dough for the game so I was just going to wait for final checks in the afternoon and then got told that evening that I'd fully confirmed that I'd be playing today. And in terms of going into this game, your mindset and your team-mates' mindset, was it just about the three points?

I mean, playing well, would that have been an added bonus today? Yeah, I think especially it's obviously a derby, so it's going to be a tough game, the more I want. It's always going to be tight, I feel. So, yeah, definitely the result is the most important thing. You know, I thought we played well, to be fair, fair but listen the result is the big one. There were some tasty challenges but as you say it is a derby did you have a view on the challenge by James Tarkovsky? I actually missed it to be honest because he

challenged it in the ball went upfield so I was kind of more focused on that I'm not trying to dodge it to be honest but I've not seen it back here. If you didn't see it you didn't it, you can't guess to be fair. In terms of the goal you scored, Diogo Jota took it so well. Was it more a celebration of relief rather than a celebration of joy around the stadium? Yeah, maybe a bit of both. For me definitely it was just excitement. It was a great goal from Jota, I was delighted for him. He really deserves it. It was probably a bit of both. For me definitely it was just excitement and it was a great goal from Jota, I was delighted for him. He really deserves it and so yeah it was probably a bit of both from the crowd. Do you find it a bit strange, Ross, you are 12

points clear at the top of the Premier League and you have played some amazing football this season. Is it just because you've got such high standards here at Liverpool that perhaps you haven't quite hit them necessarily on every occasion in the past four weeks or so? Yeah, listen, I think maybe we had one bad week that's been, you know, taking maybe the whole season for us a bit out of context because I think it has been a really good season, especially a new manager coming in, you never know what's going to happen. So I think, you know, we had one bad week, which wasn't ideal and obviously

not up to our standards, but we're just focusing now on the league and trying to do as well as we can there. Come back from the break, fresh start and now looking to push on. Absolutely and you sensed, I think, as I was walking down the stairs with the fans coming out, it was sort of, they've come here today, one or two nerves in the ranks, the job is done, the three points are there, 12 points clear. It couldn't actually be much better for you, could it, overall? No, not right now, to be honest. Yeah, it's obviously great. Listen, as well as it being an important game for the league, it's obviously an important game for the city as well and bragging rights. So yeah, definitely it's a good one to win and obviously really happy in the change.

Quivien Callaghan with Gary Flintoff. Stephen, let's just go back and do that, the offside thing, because I think it was the significant bit of the game, so it's worth just finishing the point. Yeah, so what I was saying was you're behind me and you're a couple of yards behind me, and I'm defending the edge of the box. My body is always on the half turn thinking, where are you? What are you doing?

Are you going to come and nip in front of me? Are you going to make a move and try and get yourself on side? So I'm always reacting to you, my body is always sensing you, my eye line is always drawn towards you and the ball so I'm constantly got my head on a swivel so you're affecting me. Now if you were stood 10 yards behind me I'd be thinking he's offside and I'd probably get the shout as well from my fellow centre back or my full back saying leave him, he's offside but because you're so close, you are affecting me. The EuroLeagues on the Football Daily. Thursdays on the Football Daily join the EuroLeagues team

as we bring you the latest from across the continent with a host of top European football journalists. Nobody expected to challenge for the league or to challenge for the Champions League, so they're still within the targets. It's not whistling just to whistle or try to pretend you're the referee and you're whistling for something. The whistling is actually part of the song. The Euroleagues, only on the Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Let's do a bit of Everton, shall we? I thought, I mean, the thing is, Steve, it's such a strange

night this. Liverpool are so far clear at the top of the Premier League. They're going to win the Premier League and they've won the Merseyside Derby tonight. And yet it just feels like there's a few things that we're picking up on about individual performances. The other thing that we shouldn't do actually is undervalue Everton's role in that tonight and speaking of, we can hear live from Jared Brantwick, he's with Gary. Thank you Steve, Jared thank you for your time, I mean clearly not the result you wanted but how pleased were you with the overall performance this evening? Yeah definitely, it's disappointment in the change room but you know we've got to look at the positives

created a few chances and we looked for it on the counter it's always going to be a difficult game coming here, they're going to have a lot of possession and I think the way we defended as a team and the way we sprung on the break we look good and on another day the opportunities that we get turn into goals. Now I ask you this question very much in the knowledge you are a defender and you will think with the defenders mindset when the Premier League match centre say that a player was not interfering in play in the lead-up to a goal your answer would be?

I've seen it Mark for me it's offside. As a defender you aren't thinking if the players behind you Your answer would be? I've seen it, Mark, for me it's offside. As a defender, you aren't thinking if the players are behind, you're going to stop the ball, you're not just going to let it run through. And I said to the referee, I said, are you looking at that incident there? And he says, yeah, we're looking at it. So if they're looking at it and then they didn't give it, I don't really understand whether there's a rule there which says that.

You know what I mean? So it's one of them. The referee said he was looking at it and he didn't give it, so I can't do understand whether there's a rule there which says that. But you know, I mean, so it's one of them. The referee said he was looking at it and he didn't give it, so I can't do anything about it now, but my opinion is what Sarcos meant to do, he's meant to leave the ball, you know what I mean? So it's one of them. It's a bit of a disappointment, but nothing we can do about it now. I suppose in these kinds of games, there are always fine margins

and had Beto's shot just being an inch inside the post, then that probably would have been a goal and you'd have been in the lead. Yeah, exactly. Like I said, we created chances, which is a positive, you know, and we're pushing right until the end. And I think we had that hunger to go right to the final whistle, which is something as a team that we've improved on recently. And we need to keep that performance and take it into the next tough set of fixtures that we've got and see how many points we can pick up. Can I just ask from your point of view, obviously with the change of management, David Moyes

coming in, what has he done for your game and the way in which you've approached things since he's arrived at the football club? Yeah, I think he's given me little pointers but he's just let me play my game. If he sees anything that he wants to say to me, he'll bring me out. The coaching staff have had one-to-ones with me in possession and stuff. We're just working every day on little things to make my game a lot better. I'm still young, I'm still improving. I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to learn from them.

It's about playing as many games as I can. And just see what that takes me. Thanks, Jared. Jared Brantwick with Gary Flintoff, correspondent John Murray, Stephen Warnock with us here in the commentary position at Anfield after Liverpool's 1-0 victory over Everton in the Merseyside derby.

Couple of things there. Firstly, Stephen, what you were saying there about the way Everton moved the ball. Just watching from up here as a neutral, you can see exactly how they've become such an effective counter-attacking side under David Moyes. And so much of it seems to come from Alcarath, Carlos Alcarath,

carrying the ball and getting them up the pitch. Yeah, it's about committing players forward. I think when you played under Sean Dice, there was an element of don't really want to break out of our shape. But what you've got to have behind you is an organized shape to allow you to do that. And with the three at the back

and Mikhailenko pushing down that left-hand side, so you've got the three big center halves who are effectively center halves with O'Brien at right back. But then you've got that balance of the two in midfield in Garner and Andris Agui who sit just in front. So that allows you then to defend as a five. And if one of them wants to drop back into

a full back position, then it becomes a four and a one. Well defending in training sessions is often done in that way. Can you break down a back four? It's very difficult to do it when you set up and you sit in that position and you've got a great level of communication. Plus then it's how quickly you can slow a team down

coming at you and get yourselves back into position. Everton's recovery runs were magnificent tonight. They get themselves back into a shape. So what you've got to try and do is, and this is the difficult thing for a manager and his staff, and credit to his fitness staff and what they've done in the sports science department, is you've got to retrain them in a different way. So what you've now got to do is you've got to get speed into these players to be able to counter attack and to know that they've got that ability to break at pace but then also recover in at pace and then that's where you get your rest.

So it's a different method of training and we've seen the results of it in a short space of time from David Moyes. And those matches that he was referring to there, Branfleite, Everton's next four are against Arsenal at home, Nottingham Forest away, Manchester City at home, and Chelsea away. So that's a tough run. That's a tough run. But of course, at the same time, they've got these final games at Goodison coming up.

So that's part of what they've got over the coming weeks. But on Branthwaite, I would say, again, really impressed with him tonight, that partnership with Tarkovsky. There aren't too many better central defensive partnerships in the Premier League and You know if and when England qualify for the World Cup I'll be very very surprised if if Branthwaite is not in that squad and I was rather surprised That he wasn't in the squad much though. I loved and enjoyed the Dan Byrne story I thought it surprised me that Branthwaite was in ahead of him.

The impression that I got around Jared Branthwaite at the back end of Gareth Southgate's tenure was that maybe when he'd been in and around it, it didn't necessarily feel like he was ready for it. He looks ready for it now. He does. Now we touched on James Tarkovsky's big challenge on Alexis McAllister.

A lot of people felt that should have been a red card. Might not have impacted the result in the end because Liverpool won, but it was still a significant moment. Here's the Aventon boss, David Moyes. Yeah, well, I actually think that the goal's probably a bigger question, Mark, than the tackle, to be honest. The tackle in old days would have been seen as a brilliant derby tackle.

And actually, at the time, I thought it was a great tackle, made the ground up, but I've seen the follow through and now that I've seen the follow through it could have been a red. But that doesn't change the fact about them being offside for the goal, you know what I mean? So I'm happy to answer that question but I think there should be more attention on what the outcome of the result in the game was. Yeah, it's not as if it's been balanced up within the game in your mind then? No, well, unless you're thinking that's a balance up, I don't see it. Maybe if Tarke gets sent off then it would have been a different game. But the referee didn't give it. I think it's an easy decision for the linesman to put the flag up and give offside. It's amazing that it didn't happen at Anfield.

Overall, you've been on this great run since you've come to the football club. I mean this so close very very fine margin here today do you go out with your heads held high today or does the the winner in you go home frustrated? No we absolutely leave here thinking that we've we've run the best team in the country close in two games. We were in a period of tough games at the moment, which in a way I've just said to the players, we're really looking forward to it because we want to see what we can do. We've gone nine unbeaten at the moment. We know we're short in different things, in different parts of our game.

But if you give me this position when I first took the job coming to Anfield, and I'm playing Liverpool twice in a month at the moment and I think we've made it pretty tough work for them. The Evert manager David Moyes, let's get a bit more reaction shall we? We can hear from the Liverpool manager Arna Slott with Gary Flintoff. Well Arna, first things first, how important were the three points this evening and what did you make of the performance? Every game you play no matter in which moment in the season it's about winning, it's about three points So that's always the most important thing but performance was I would almost say as expected it's almost impossible for a team to play a good game against

Efton because of their playing style they make it so difficult for every team they play so many bodies in and around the box if you try to attack and so many players that can block across, can block a shot, can head the ball away and an enormous threat on the counter attack in every set piece they get. So then to play tonight in a way that we were so many times able to get Lucio, Diaz in a 1 v 1 and Mo Salah that was much better than the away game where we only had the ball in our last line So I liked it more, but yeah, I prefer to see the game against Paris Saint-Germain although we lost it

But that's an open game of football where two teams go all in and attack Is this a very difficult team and game to play but we did it in the best possible manner in my opinion. Can I ask you your thoughts on the challenge from James Tarkovsky on Alexis McAllister? Yes you can, but I think so many people commented on it already and also people that maybe are not a fan of Liverpool. And even they were all clear about what it was so why should I even comment on that I would prefer to talk about Jot Aschol or Curtis Jones performance or someone else performance this was so clear that

I don't have to comment about it. In terms of Jot's goal do you think there's a bit of balancing up there in terms of there was a bit of side in the build-up to the goal which ultimately the officials have said he wasn't interfering with play or interfering with the ball. Yeah in this situation the execution of the rule was perfect but I don't like the rule because I'm an offensive coach I want to press high so if we then put players in an offside position and the ball is kicked long and the striker is not getting involved and we had the ball away the linesman doesn't raise his flag and I'm always complaining about that

because anything no he's not interfering so the referees executed the rule perfectly but I don't like the rule but I love the game of football and the people that make the rules maybe also love the game but they're not there to help the attacking team or whatever so I don't like the rule but the referees in this situation executed the rule as they should he did not interfere you can disagree with the rule but the execution of the rule was as it should be that's why it was a goal. Hank could I just ask you are 12 points clear at the top of the Premier League, you've had

a fantastic season so far but there was a lot of tension around Anfield coming into this game this evening. Would you just urge the fans just to be calm, everything is under control? I don't think, whatever the situation in the league table is, if we play Everton, I think there's always something special around the place and that's also what helped us today because I think Curtis Jones stood up for the fans after the final whistle at Goodison Park and I don't know if it was because of that or they just want to help the team every single time but the fans stood up for us today. Players stood up, but the fans were really there for us.

So yeah, that always helps. That helps the team a lot. And hopefully in every home game that comes up now, we will see the same thing. Players giving everything they got and the fans doing the same. Thank you. Right, let's get a bit more reaction to one of the other night's results in the Premier League. Bournemouth won Ipswich 2, Kieran McKenna side their first Premier League win of 2025. Also, it means that they are a little bit closer and I mean a little bit closer to Premier League safety. It's still a long shot. They're 18th, 20 points. They are still nine behind Wolverhampton Wanderers.

But a win is a win. Here is Kieran McKenna with Chris Wise. Kieran, how good does it feel to finally have that first league win of 2025? Yeah, every win this season is going to be and was going to be special for us, so it's a special one again tonight. And yeah, really proud of the performance, really proud of individually as a team, individually and as a team how we went about it. And, you know, proud, I think, when you do wait quite a individually as a team, individually and as a team how we went about it.

And you know, proud I think when you do wait quite a while for a win, which can happen for us in this league, you really find the character of the individuals and the character of the group. And I think the performance tonight shows how together everyone is, how everyone's still working. And that got the reward of the win tonight. And what was it specifically that stood out for you tonight? A couple of bits. Of course we had had to do our first year of defending, certainly. So I think we defended with great resilience as a team. And then I think the quality of our second goal, for me,

to be honest, I think it's the best goal that anyone scored here this season. They're a really, really hard team to score that type of goal against. I'm not sure anyone scored a goal that they've started from the goalkeeper and built all the way through the pitch. So you know, it's a real testament to how the group are still working on, you know how we play and to execute it that well. And that circumstance at one nil at one nil up to execute an attack and move that well and finish it so well. I think it's

a fantastic goal and you know something to really be proud of. That's Kieran McKenna. It's quite hard for us to sort of discuss the games that we haven't seen. Nonetheless, the story is pretty obvious with Ipswich Town. They've got that victory. It's going to be too little too late.

Nine points, eight games. Yeah, it looks that way. I think there'll be a feeling within the changing room. Well, we can go on a run a three or four unbeaten. We haven't done that on all seasons. So why do you suddenly think at the end of the season you're going to be able to do that? I wish them all luck in the world because I think they've had an incredible season so far.

I think they found it difficult, which we thought they would. But can they maybe get another victory and start to put a little bit of pressure on Wolves and see if they can drag them into it a little bit more. But that was a massive result for Wolves last night. Now that Ipswich have won themselves. Do you think that the gap that we talk about, which only gets bigger and we talk about how much more often most of the promoted clubs go down than they used to, and there's always a season which kind of breaks that rule and there's always an exception to it. Do you think that in of itself explains the situation that particularly Ipswich are in and the reason I say particularly Ipswich is Southampton and Leicester have both been absolutely hammered by everybody for the vast majority of the season. Ipswich have got a lot of praise from

all of us, me included, I've enjoyed watching them. Equally, they have got nowhere near staying up. Yeah, that's the major problem, isn't it? For all the sort of the buzz around the club and the sort of pats on the back that we've all given them at times, they still haven't got results that have been good enough to keep them up. And the gap is huge between the Premier League and the Championship. And what we're also starting to see now is that there's a gap between the top championship teams that come down with the parachute payments and the rest of the championship.

And that's becoming a little bit of a yo-yo. It's becoming a little bit repetitive in the way that teams keep on coming up. I know Ipswich booked the trend last year by going back to back in promotions, but you just get that sense that that's what's going to happen for the next couple of years.

And it makes you look back on the job that certain managers, especially Steve Cooper at Nottingham Forest, bringing them up, solidifying them, making sure that they stayed up, then moving on, and then you look at where the club is now, it's getting harder and harder to be able to do that. It's what you do in the transfer market that is vitally important. And it's a difficult skill set to try and attract players

because they feel that, I think we might go down, and that's hard. There's still a place though for that, exactly what you say, that good management, basically. A good manager who's able to get the best out of his players, but it's harder than ever and that's why it is so important that there does remain to be as much as possible a level-ish playing field when you're talking about the financial side of things. Yeah I remember when I went to

Wigan and we went up from the the league one into the championship and I know it's not the same but what Gary Caldwell was the manager at the time, and he spoke to Eddie Howe, and Eddie Howe said to him, who was at Bournemouth at the same time, he said, don't buy too many players. Don't change too much of the squad. Keep the majority of the squad, because you've got to have that team built, the camaraderie between the teams. But you've also just got to sprinkle a couple of players

in it, because that will get you across the line and maybe keep you in the division a little bit longer. And Gary almost went against it and thought, no, I need to add because I feel like we can go up again. And you're sort of running before you can walk. And I feel like that's one of the most important things. But because the gap has grown and got bigger, you've got to bring four top, top quality players in.

But then when you bring them in, they want big wages, then that upsets the dressing room and that's the tough balance that you find within the changing rooms. So once you start bringing three or four in, you go, we may as well go six and seven then and change the whole lot. But then you're trying to integrate them, you're trying to set out how you want to play throughout the season and by the time you get them through the door, the season's already kicked off and then you're catching up because you're probably down on points where you should be getting those key players in. As soon as you go up, you should be buying players and get them through the

door. But we know what owners are like. They want to, they want to stick for, want to sort of get a player for as cheap as he can and hold out towards the end of the transfer window. Big thank you to Stephen Warnock and to John Murray. The next episode of the Football Daily podcast will be the EuroLeague, so I'll be here with Guillaume Balaguay, Julian Laron and James Hudcastle. Thank you very much for listening and goodbye from Anfield.