Football Daily - The Making of Mikel

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

A BBC World Service documentary revealing the untold stories behind Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta’s journey to the top.In Barcelona, former Liverpool goalkeeper Pepe Reina relives his time sharing bunk beds with Arteta at the world-famous La Masia academy, declaring that the boy from the Basque country was “born to be a manager”.Presenter John Bennett travels to Arteta’s home town of San Sebastian to meet his childhood coach at a small club, next to a hair salon, that has become an amazing football talent factory.Hear from former teammates at Everton, Arsenal and Rangers, from where Dutch great Ronald de Boer remembers Arteta stepping up aged 21 to score a stoppage-time penalty to snatch the title from Glasgow rivals Celtic: “To take that responsibility, at such a young age, in such an important game and moment of that decisive title race against Celtic was impressive.”And find out why the Welsh city of Newport played such an important part in Arteta’s journey into coaching.Arsenal legend Arsène Wenger and former Man City captain Vincent Kompany also feature in this documentary, which paints a picture of a single-minded, intelligent and meticulous man, schooled in the Barcelona style of play, who is now mixing it with the top managers in the game and has got Arsenal fans dreaming of glory once again.

How Do You Cope with Ellis and John. We want to tell you about the brand new series of our podcast How Do You Cope, available now on BBC Sounds. Let's create spaces where young people feel confident to say, actually, I need help. Each week we speak to guests about some of the challenges they've had to overcome throughout their lives, all answering the question, how do you cope?

You should let it seep out from every pore in your body and let it be physical and rageful so that it can leave. They've been some of the most illuminating conversations I've ever had. From BBC Radio 5 Live. How do you cope with Ellis and John? Listen on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

He's given us a reason to believe that we are getting back to where we want to be. It's almost like he is one of us. I just can't explain how much I love him. He's full of energy, he's full of excitement, he's full of intensity as well on the touchline. What he's done is nothing short of a miracle for Arsenal Football Club. In the end they fell short, but after years of mediocrity Mikel Arteta has turned Arsenal back into contenders. With the youngest squad in the Premier League this season, they pushed Manchester City in the title race, landing Champions League football for the first time since 2016. And when you talk to the supporters surrounding me here at an Arsenal

game, they're full of praise for the Spaniard in the dugout. Every sort of cheer chant that we have, he lives it, he breathes it, we see what it means to him. You know he comes across as a very serious sort of sincere person in his press conferences but when you see him out and about with the players, training ground, on the touchline, he feels it and as an ex-player he understands what it means to be Arsenal. So when you see him on the touchline you feel a sense of pride, you feel a sense of excitement and we're just so excited to see where it kind of ends up with him. The atmosphere at the Emirates Stadium now, I would say second to none. It's been exceedingly good.

The fans are behind him and it's more that the players and the manager are bonding with the fan. It's almost like a new relationship beginning again. It's like that, you know, we're all in love with each other, you know. He has a great sense of value. He demands respect. I love his psychology. I love that he wants to look at things from everybody else's point of view

to try to get the best out of everybody. Before taking charge of Arsenal, Arteta had never been a head coach before. But now, after some turbulent seasons and at the age of just 41, he's mixing it with the top managers in the game. So how did he transition so quickly from midfielder to management? What were the key steps on his journey into coaching?

And what makes him stand out from others who have tried and failed at Europe's top clubs? My name's John Bennett, and this is Arteta, the making of Mikel. Coming up, we'll meet the Premier League star who shared a bunk bed with Arteta at Barcelona's world-famous academy. We were sharing same dreams, same nightmares, same fears. We were all together supporting each other because we were at that time brothers. We'll go back to where it all began for Arteta, a small youth club next to a hair salon which has quietly become an amazing La Liga talent factory. He was not like other kids who got distracted, talked to each other, joked around. Instead

he was very attentive and when he came on the field he played brilliantly because he had so much quality. We'll speak to former teammates at Rangers, Everton and Arsenal on the defining moments in his career. To take that responsibility at that young age in such an important game and moment of that decisive title race against Celtic was impressive. And we find out why the Welsh city of Newport played a part in his success. He's the most educated person we've had probably come through the doors here on any of our courses. I just think it's that level of curiosity and that level of kind of innovation, the way that he thought about things. But first, I'm outside one of the most famous stadiums in the world,

the Camp Nou, home of Barcelona, because perhaps above all else, this may have been the most influential place in Mikel Arteta's football journey. Not the iconic arena, but a small building just outside. If you've been here to watch a game, you may have walked past without noticing it. It's La Masia, which literally translates as the farmhouse. And that's exactly what it looks like. It's a fairly small Catalan farmhouse with a tiled angled roof,

now surrounded by fencing because it's not used anymore. The modern La Masia Academy is over at the club's state-of-the-art training ground, about 20 minutes drive away but over the past decades it has been home to some of the biggest and best talents in world football. The likes of Lionel Messi, Pep Guardiola, Andres Iniesta and many many more. When they were youngsters they all slept in the dorm rooms inside that farmhouse building in the shadow of Camp Nou. This is a monument not just for itself because it has a lot of history but also for what Barcelona has achieved because everything was born here. Ernest Masia, sports reporter from Radio

Catalunya. In fact it was Johan Cruyff one of the persons who by late 70s made the proposal to the president Josep Lluis Núñez at the time that this should be a place for homegrown players and president Núñez in the 80s he adapted these facilities to allow young players to sleep here to eat here to receive the talks from the coaches in here and then to go to the training grounds. And the teams have walked out and are standing now and we see another mosaic again all around the ground, the red and the blue. They open their curtains in the morning and the first thing they see is the home of Barcelona,

the stadium, camp now. I mean, to have that right next to them is something really special, to have that so close to the place where they dream about playing one day. Yeah, we can say that they could barely touch their dream and well it helped these guys focus a lot on what their objective was. Most of them wouldn't achieve it but some of them yes and yes this is an iconic place. Arteta arrived here

at La Masia in his mid-teens. It's a long way from his home in San Sebastian in the north of Spain. He was rubbing shoulders with young players who would soon become household names. In fact, he shared a bunk bed with a goalkeeper who'd go on to play for Liverpool and win a World Cup. Spain international Pepe Reina. We were teammates and then we were roommates. He arrived one year later than I did. I was there and I was already settled. And for us to help them, the new ones, to settle down and be right,

it was kind of our job. So that's why being a teammate at that time was very important, living in the same place. So I tried to help him from the beginning because he deserved it. He's an help him from the beginning because he deserved. He's an open heart man for everything he does and a great human being. And it wasn't just the same dorm room was it? It was bunk beds. You on top? If I'm not wrong he will remember it worse than I do. I was the one snoring, let's say, and being honest, but you know,

because of we were up and down, the people, you know, during the night, they were upset, obviously, for the noise of my snoring. So they started to throw, you know, shin pads, shoes, flip flops, everything was right. But me and Dad, we were sharing the same bed, many of them articles, finished in the Mikkels bed. in the in the mikkels bed so the sharing of that bed cost him many sleepless nights and almost our relationship but it was it was a it was fun you know there were plenty of funny moments and la masia is that you know is this brotherhood and you know all that togetherness. We were sharing same dreams, same nightmares, same fears. And you know, we were all together supporting each other because we were at that time brothers. Yeah, you both come from a long way, you come from Madrid, he'd come from San Sebastian,

you've been there a year longer, but there was homesickness, wasn't there? I guess in that way, you both support each other. were 13 14 15 year old kids and we missed our families we missed our brothers sisters our parents you know I remember reading letters from home at that time so and there were tears there were there were people crying and it was tough moments. It was not only funny moments and football moments. You need to be supportive with your brothers at that time and Mikel and I went like that. Is that where you build your resilience that you've both used in your careers? Going through those tough moments, you're competing against each other as well, from those La Masia times,

that way you got the resilience? Probably it's a character you learn there. That resilience, that strong mentality, that determination to get your trophy or your goals, it's something that you need to develop in La Masia because a natural selection is as simple as that. La Masia is where Pepe Reina and Mikel Arteta learnt their trade as footballers,

but could this place also have been where he picked up the principles which are now serving him so well as a head coach? Just next door to La Masia and Camp Nou is the huge Hotel Sofia. I'm heading there now to meet a man who had a pretty impressive job title during some of his time working behind the scenes at Barcelona, head of methodology. It's Paco Cerullo, who is known as a master teacher of physical preparation.

He was a fitness coach under Pep Guardiola and was described by the now Manchester City head coach as the best physical trainer I've ever worked with. In fact, it was Guardiola's mentor, the great Johan Cruyff, who promoted him to become physical trainer of the club's first team in 1994. And up until leaving Barcelona last year, he was at the heart of their identity and their success.

I remember Mikel's time at Barça B. I was a fitness coach. His coach, Quique Costas, was with him for two years. Later, he was promoted to the first team, where he didn't play much. I took many training sessions with Mikel. He was small and slim but skillful. He understood the game very well. The relationship he established with his teammates in the game was always very mature. He wasn't the most athletic player and he wasn't a certain starter

because he was competing with some very good players in midfield, but he held his own. When he played, especially in the second year, the team played more in Barça style. Then he went to the first team and we met each other less often. I have great memories of the time we met. He liked to train a lot. He had a lot of respect for his teammates and the coaching staff. He was very nice and extremely polite. Barcelona, inevitably in possession. Busquets backheels it to Iniesta, taken up by Messi, Xavi. La Masia has produced so many great players and many of those great players are now becoming coaches like Mikel Arteta. Is it because you don't only teach a different way of playing, but also a different way of thinking about the game? Do players who come out of La Masia become more creative in the way they think tactically about football and more innovative perhaps?

The philosophy is that you help your teammate do what they are capable of doing well. This means leaving your ego at the door as you put your teammate to do what they are capable of doing well. This means leaving your ego at the door as you put your teammate above yourself. And that comes with a cost. Some players did not accept it and did not succeed it at grassroots level. Others understood that it wasn't about sacrificing yourself, but it was about tailoring your game to the needs of your teammate. This is what Arteta and Guardiola used to do. When the player received the ball, he said thank you because it had arrived exactly as they wanted it. Some players accepted it, some found it difficult. This meant that some players who were perfectly suited to other clubs were not right for Barça.

This is the essence of La Masia, your teammate comes first. And that's very difficult in a game where personal glory is so important to so many players. Arteta was one of those players who appeared when needed and did what was needed for the team. Arteta, like Pep, was unselfish and played for others. His essence was to work for the team and help others to thrive. And this is what he does now with his players. He trains them so that their only priority is to collaborate with their teammates. Arteta tries to create an environment where creativity can thrive. Arteta's coach, Miguel Arteta, was schooled in the Barcelona ideology at La Masia. But

according to Pepe Reina, many of the raw materials of a future coach were already there. He was born as a manager, I think. He's intelligent on the pitch, he's been demonstrated off the pitch also. But I think the education in Barcelona, as a player, and especially in his position, it's particularly strong. So it was only normal that those players in those positions, they know more football than others. It's as simple as that. Could you always see that you go into management when he was young?

It was the personality of that. And also because he was lucky enough to finish his footballing career and then have a little master with Pep for three years. That's an unbelievable starting point, to say something. It's like when somebody graduates in the university and then does the master in Harvard to do the speciality of coaching. It was his lucky and deserving so because you knew Mikel when already was finishing his career as a football player

that he was already a manager. So that's why he deserved and he got the opportunity to start with Guardiola for three years. And finally, are you thinking you might follow Mikel Arteta into coaching yourself? Probably. I will need to learn from him. I will visit him. But yeah, it is the way I will start. The managing area is kicking in my head from two or three years ago. Nowadays, I think more as a coach than almost as a player.

So you need to prepare yourself mentally, but also get your license and be prepared, be clever with who you study and who you choose as a mentor. But Mikel is strongly up there with one of my favourites and I will learn, if I can, from his manager abilities because he's going to be one of the greatest. I could see you in a management team together from the bunk bed to the technical area it could be if he wants I mean I'm available probably in two three years so it's it's a strong situation there you know to be together in pumping beds with 40 years of difference more or less, it's going to be interesting.

But of course, La Masia isn't where Mikel Arteta started playing football. It all began here, perhaps on this famous beach where I'm standing now. And if I look behind me, I can see the apartment block where he grew up. I've travelled from Barcelona, 500 kilometres north, to San Sebastian in the Basque Country. This beautiful seaside city is where Arteta was born and raised and where he joined his first football club. So a stone's throw from the beach and from the town centre. Here we are where Mikel Arteta's football journey started and not just his football journey as

well. An incredible number of footballers have come through this club. Antiguaco, the name of the club, the club crest as well, blue and white is above this brown door let's knock and meet one of Mikel Arteta's first coaches. Roberto hello hello nice to meet you thanks so much for the invite Wow the first thing that greets you here is a number of shirts on the wall and these are all shirts of players who have come through this club let me count one two three four five six seven eight nine ten I think it's about 20 shirts and there's a shrine to Xabi Alonso with a number of Liverpool shirts Xabi Alonso lifting the Champions League

trophy and a bit further on a shrine to Mikel Arteta some Arsenal shirts some boots from his time in Everton Roberto let's sit down and have a chat about Mikel Arteta. Some Arsenal shirts, some boots from his time in Everton. Roberto, let's sit down and have a chat about Mikel Arteta's time here in the club. The first time I met Mikel, it was when he was eight or nine years old. We played some tournaments in France. When he was really young, he didn't stand out in height or strength

but his quality was head and shoulders above the others. He had a lot of talent. Of all the players I've seen he was the one with the most quality. I've seen many excellent prospects, Anthony Rahola, Xavi Alonso, Mikel Alonso, Aris Aduriz, etc. But he was an infielder who had something special. He didn't seem very strong, but he had an incredible flair, even if he was small. We played many tournaments with him and Xavi Alonso in the same team. The three of us used to go to France to play in competitions

and it was superb. There was a very good team and players. Strong run forward here for Arsenal, turns it back to Arteta, great chance and he scores! Mikel Arteta! Era un equipo muy bueno y muy buenos jugadores. my heart and go through it. And it was one of the first surgeries that was done in that way in Spain. So we didn't know how it was going to end up. I was a really lively kid. The doctor was telling my father and mother, he needs to calm down, he's not going to be able to do much exercise with that problem. And slowly I managed to go through every possible stage.

I was safe, I was feeling good and I managed to be a professional footballer. He had some heart issues as a child. He had to have a major operation on his heart. Did you know about that when he came to the club? Was that something that was known? Yes, I knew that he had had a heart operation. I found it out because his father told us about it. In his school years, before joining our club he was already playing football on the

beach in the Pusco and in those games he battled hard as his life depended on it he was born a winner he ran so hard that he would end up exhausted every day when he arrived here at the club, he felt less alone. Players passed the ball to his feet and he started really enjoying the experience of playing football. His father had told us that he had had a heart operation, that he had a scar. However, it never affected his sporting life at all.

He has never complained or had any issues with his heart. Everything was fine. You've had some amazing players in the past at this club. You had some amazing players in the team with Mikel Arteta, but did he stand out from the rest? Did he have something special about him back then? He stood out from the rest. He had something special. It was nice to see such quality in that tiny body. He was like Messi. You watch Messi's videos and there are many similarities from when they were kids. Mikkel had a very good reading of the game. It was as if he was watching the game from above. They see what people see from above. Under-14s, a training. This is the age that Mikel Arteta was when he was picked up and signed by Barcelona

when he went to the famous La Masia Academy. Some great players on show here. You can see the amount of talent that they have here. It's a pitch, it's a ground which is shared by a number of teams in San Sebastian. There's a blue and white stand over in the corner, the colours of Real Sociedad. There's a clubhouse on the far side as well and a grey building. Some snacks being sold to the parents who are watching the training session. And it's here that Mikel Arteta's skills as a player came to the fore, but also the skills that are serving him so

well as a coach and a manager. He really was a leader even back then. These players who play in midfield have a better chance of ending up as coaches. Guardiola, Xavi Hernandez, Xavi Alonso. From a very young age, they are already forced to know where the rest of the team is at, to direct, to close spaces. As a result, both Xavi and Mikel have been coaches on the field since they were kids. They are natural leaders. And if you are a leader in your youth team

like Antiguoco, you become a leader in Glasgow, Everton or Arsenal. And you're destined to be a manager. When he told me, while still active as a player, that he was starting to get the coach license, I had no doubt about that he would succeed. When he was little and came back to watch his former friends play football, he often told me, they are playing a 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 system. He was already observing the team's formation and tactics. I know that he didn't forget you even when he joined Barcelona. There's this story that he was signing a sponsorship deal, aged 18,

and it was with a big kit manufacturer. And he said, yeah, I I'll sign it but only if you send kits back to my first club. Is that true? Yes, not just about the tracksuits. When Mikel signed his first contract with Adidas he said I'll sign but you have to send us 20 jackets for the Antewoku first team. Some time later he was already at Everton. One day he asked me for jackets for the Antewoku first team. Sometime later, he was already at Everton. One day, he asked me for the address of Antewoku. I asked him, why? And he said, you give me the address. After a week, we received four huge boxes

with Everton clothing for the coaches and our staff. You can imagine the happiness that that gave us. Jill Scott's Coffee Club. We are back. I'm so excited for the second series, Ben. It's going to be so exciting. Bigger and better this year. We've got the Lionesses England manager, Sabrina. Wow.

As if we've got Serena. I'm happy that I've seen her a couple of times after the Euros. More on TV than in life. Oh. Good to see her now here. Let's not forget as well, Jill, we've got to hear about all your antics in the jungle too. Every now and then, there'd just be a tannoy going,

Jill, you are not allowed to leave camp that way. So I was constantly getting in trouble. Jill Scott's Coffee Club. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Despite being highly rated, Arteta never went on to make an appearance in the Barcelona first team. But midway through the 2000-2001 season, the club sent him on loan to another

big name. Arteta joined Paris Saint-Germain and in 18 months he impressed in a team that contained huge stars like Ronaldinho, JJ Acoccia and Nicolas Inelka, as well as another future Premier League manager, Maurizio Pochettino. His first permanent transfer, though, would be to Glasgow Rangers, where he linked up with another ex-Barcelona player, Ronald de Boer, who he had already impressed in a UEFA Cup match between PSG and the Scottish Giants. He was outstanding as an 80-year-old boy there on the midfield, controlling really like a Barca player, the real Barcelona school player as he is at that time, controlling the ball very confidently, great passer, great idea, great vision.

So, yeah, he did very well in the games against us. So that's why Rangers was very interested to get such a youngster to Glasgow. Did I hear it correctly that you played a small part in his decision to make the move to Glasgow Rangers? I think he asked me, of course, at that time, they are interested, how it was there. I said it was amazing.

Glasgow is of course not Paris and it's definitely also not Barcelona. But it has the ambience, the people who adore football, the games. You play almost at home even if you're awake. And a great atmosphere. So, I told him that. What impression did he make on everyone at Glasgow Rangers when he arrived? What sort of person was he at that age? Oh, he was shy, I must say.

And I think I was a little bit his father figure because I spoke Spanish, of course. And Claudio Canigia, he spoke Spanish, and Lorenzo Amoruso, who is Italian, also spoke very well Spanish. So I think we took him a little bit under his wings and I guided him a little bit where to go in Glasgow, but also on the pitch. But he was a shy boy. He was not the guy that, look at me, I'm arriving as a big star. No, definitely not. And that, I think,

says something about the person from Miguel Arteta. It was at Rangers where the football world first got a hint of Arteta's strong personality. Having no fear about taking responsibility in the most pressurised of situations. Heading into the final day of the 2002-2003 Scottish Premiership season, Rangers and their great rival Celtic were level on points and goal difference, with Rangers one ahead on goals scored. With 92 minutes on the clock in both games, Rangers were 5-1 up at Ibrox against Unfermline Athletic and Celtic 4-0 up at Kilmarnock.

It was so close that a helicopter was poised to deliver the trophy to whoever came out on top. Then Rangers won a penalty. Score and the title was definitely theirs. It was a team packed with experience but a 21-year-old Arteta

stepped up. I think Ferguson Barry was number one but I don't know he took the ball and he stood behind it and he took it. Of course he has nerve

I don't think you can deny that. He was good hiding it probably and I could really see it. I barely didn't watch already. Ronald de Boer can't look, he's right in front of the half-back, Leitchie can't look at the penalty. I knew how important it was for us. I knew when we scored we were winners and for me it also meant so much of course winning the treble.

This could be the championship winning goal if Mikel Arteta can hold his nerve. That was a big responsibility from him so He had also that moment that he took charge. I think nobody really expected that, but he was a great player. We knew that, but also to take that responsibility at that young age in such an important game and moment of that decisive title race against Celtic was impressive. I was just thinking the ball has to be in the goal and nothing else. Credit to Miguel that he took the responsibility and that of course you have the chance to fail but that didn't happen so he was the hero.

After Rangers, Arteta moved back home, signing for Real Sociedad in 2004 where he briefly joined up with his old anti-Guaco team-mate Xabi Alonso. But Alonso left La Real to join Liverpool before the start of the campaign, and for Arteta, the move back to San Sebastian didn't work out. He only made three starts in the first half of the season before, like Alonso, Merseyside came calling, and Arteta's relationship with English football began. One of Arteta's teammates during his six-year spell at Everton was Alan Stubbs. When we signed Mikel, I think that was where Everton was Alan Stubbs. When we signed Mikel I think that was

where Everton started to evolve in terms of a more probably dynamic team in terms of how their style of play changed. I think Mikel was very influential in that and I think what we started to see was that Mikel become more of an influence in terms of the team he certainly had a clear idea of how he wants to play as an individual but also how he would like the team to play as a result and there was a few occasions where we had come in at half time and we say for instance we were losing the game or we were coming and we hadn't played well and we were finding ourselves at nil-nil or draw in the game he wasn't afraid to give an opinion in terms of you know we must do better we've got to be brave on there to try and get on the ball. We have to dictate the play more. And obviously

at that time with David Moyes, he was more of a structured, not get beat mentality in terms of defensively strong, hit teams on the counter-attack and be very resolute in terms of, well, one of the seasons, you know, we had seasons at the time we had a record for the most 1-0 wins in the club's history I think if it was up to Mikel, whereas we were very defensively structured and very strong, Mikel would have, I think at times, liked to have seen us win the game 2-0 and 3-0 rather than play it a 1-0 out. And sometimes you can be in that territory of a last-minute equaliser

or a mistake which leads to that, and he would get frustrated by that. And as a result of that, he started to have more of an influence. And I think he had a clear idea, even at that time as a player, of how he perceived how the team wanted to play. There was times where, don't get me wrong, he said something and one or two of the players have maybe not agreed with that because what Mikel wanted to do, he wanted to always be on the ball. Sometimes in a game, that's very difficult to always be on the ball. Sometimes in a game that's very difficult to always be on the

ball because being, I have to be realistic, at that time with Everton we were never ever going to be a team that controlled games of football but Mikel would always give the arguments, why not, why can't we try? In 2011 Arteta's next move was to London to join a club who needed leaders after suffering one of the most humiliating defeats in their history. ...and for Arsene Wenger. Yeah, it's been an embarrassing day for Arsenal. Yes, we know they were shown of all sorts of players

coming here to play at Old Trafford. Swiss defender Johan Giroud was part of the Arsenal team thrashed 8-2 by Manchester United in August 2011. He remembers Arteta's arrival three days later having a calming effect on the dressing room. He was an experienced player coming from Everton with a lot of calmness in his head. Knowing what was demanding of him, a very tidy player in the middle that plays short passes and long passes and he is someone that gives a lot for the team. So what was to doubt is that he was really a leader in a way, maybe not always on the voice,

but on his action on the pitch. At the beginning, I remember more of him adapting himself to the team and to the philosophy, but definitely you could see that there was something in his understanding and wanting to learn, being close to Arsene Wenger

and wanting to have the little tips to gain time, to have the solutions before anyone else. So that's something you could see. He's a very intelligent guy and I know what he's talking about when we speak about football, but not only about football, but about life as well.

Fittingly for the current Arsenal manager, it was as an Arsenal player that Arteta's ambitions to be a coach really started coming together. But as well as learning from Arsene Wenger, his education as a manager also took place here, next to a leisure centre and a cricket club 19 miles outside of England. I wanted to get educated as a coach, so I was looking for the best option. And I started to ask some players that I play with that they started the courses in England, Spain, in France, in Wales and they talk about Ocean and the

West Federation and how organized they are and how clear is the idea of how they want to get the players or the ex-players to understand what are the requirements and the changes that they're going to see when they want to become coaches. I'm in the Welsh city, Newport, at the National Football Development Centre, where I've come to meet Dave Adams, the Chief Football Officer of the Football Association of Wales. Dave, how are you? Nice to meet you, Dave Adams. Thanks for letting us come down.

No problem at all, welcome to Dragon Park. This is obviously the home of Mikel Arteta, where he did his UEFA Pro licence, so we'd like to have you here. This looks like a classroom. Was it here where you would have learnt? That's right, this is it. Oh, go on, show us through, show us through.

Lead the way. Here we go. So what would happen here then? So basically, this is one of our classrooms at Dragon Park where we teach all of our coaching courses. This is kind of the centre for all of our coach education courses across our UEFA C licence, B licence, A licence and Pro licence. Mikel came actually to do his A licence, his first course with us.

And then, yeah, across his journey, he stayed with us for about four years really in total. Spent a lot of time here because he also helped do some sessions with our national teams under-16s when Oshun Roberts was here as technical director. And, yeah, he obviously engaged unbelievably in the process and it was great to have him here in Wales.

And there were some big names with him, weren't there? Let's go and grab a cup of tea, have a chat, because I want to find out more about this course. Perfect. Dave, tell me some of the illustrious managerial names you've had coming through these doors well it goes back a long way really we had Marcel Desailly very early on and probably 2010 possibly that sort of time and I think like anything I suppose like it sort of started this network I suppose someone like that coming on the course being like a decorated international

player winning world cups I think it obviously brought a lot of traction to Wales. And I suppose as a consequence of that, the network grew in the professional game and people kind of came on the courses on the back of that, really. So then we ended up having people like Roberto Martinez, Steve Cooper, Patrick Vieira. Yeah, and the list sort of goes on, really. So, yeah, it's been incredible, really. But I think what we managed to do really well was we created this environment in Wales where we didn't impose a particular philosophy on people. Mae wedi bod yn anhygoel mewn gwirionedd. Ond rwy'n credu bod yn gallu gwneud hynny'n dda iawn, roedd ein bod yn creu'r amgylchedd hon yn Cymru lle nad oedden ni'n cynnig ffilosofi ar bobl. Roedden ni'n ceisio eu gael i ddod i'r blaen i'r syniad hwnnw.

Mae gennym ffordd Cymraeg yma, fframwaith datblygu chwarae a addysg arweinyddiaeth, ac yn ceisio rhoi ein fframwaith i nhw, ond yn dweud wrthyn nhw, dylai chi ddod i ddod i'ch ffordd eich hun, dylai chi ddod i adeiladu eich gwerth eich hun, eich ffilosofi eich hun. Ac hefyd, mae gennym broses mentore'n hyderus iawn yma, lle rydym yn ceisio gwneud mentoreu unigol. Ac fe wnaeth Michiel ei ddod o hyd i'r cwrs, pan oedd yn dod ar ei cwrs, ei rhaglen ar y leoliadau arall.

Roedd yn dal i chwarae yn yr arsynol ar hyn o bryd ac yn gwneud gwaith yn yr academi. Ond roedd gennym mentore un-on-un, yn mynd i'r clwb gyda'i gilydd a rhoi cymorth i'w gael yn y cyfan. Ac rydyn ni'n credu bod dysgu yn y cyfan gyda fwyaf o ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd unigol yw'r ffordd gorau o wneud hynny. Ac fe wnaethon ni ffilmio llawer o'i sesiwnau ac yn amlwg roedd yn rhoi cyfnod unigol i'w ddysgu. Ac mae'n ddiddorol iawn nad yw llawer o bobl yn dechrau eu llwybr yn gyflym fel y dychmygodd Mikel am hynny. Roedd yn meddwl, mae gen i 4 mlynedd arall ar ôl fy nghyfrifiad yma, a allaf i geisio cael fy nghyfansawdd AM Pro wedi'i gyflawni? Felly pan dwi'n di wythnos, rydw i mewn sefyllfa lle gallaf ddod yn rheolwr, try and get my A and Pro licence completed so when I finish playing I'm in a position where I can actually become a manager which I think a lot of people tend to start some courses while they're

still playing but because of the commitment to a coaching course and a commitment to playing it can be challenging so fair play to Mikel he obviously had a very clear idea about what he wanted to achieve a very clear timeline of how he's going to achieve those things and obviously made a huge I think commitment to that as well you know didn't do it half-heartedly he actually committed himself fully to both things which probably shows why he's been so successful in his in his career as a manager because he has that dedication to the craft and wants to keep developing himself individually. Tell me day-to-day what he would have been doing on the course to really prepare him to be at the manager he is now?

Yeah so we try at the start of every course, like look at kind of this 360 profile of the individual. So, you know, what areas they need support with. So is it more around the media training? Is it more around like leadership and management? Is it more the technical and tactical on-pitch delivery? So I guess you have to recognise that maybe, you know, Mikel's skill set would probably be more on the tactical detail, the vision of the

team, how he wants his team to play. That would be a really big thing that Mikel was very, very strong at from the get-go because he had a very clear idea about how he wanted to do that, I suppose. Maybe the things that he needed more support with was maybe a wider awareness of the wider stakeholders in a big club. How do you manage the ownership? How do you manage the sporting director? How do you manage how you speak to the fans, for example? We do a lot of work on mewn clwb mawr. Sut ydych chi'n rheoli'r arweinyddiaeth? Sut ydych chi'n rheoli'r Rheolwr Gwyddon? Sut ydych chi'n rheoli sut rydych chi'n siarad â'r ffans, er enghraifft? Rydym yn gwneud llawer o waith ar tactigau a strategaethau, felly llawer o waith ar analisiad o'r cyd-dynion, fel sut rydych chi'n analisio'r cyd-dynion, sut rydych chi'n adnabod llyfrau a chyfraithwyr y cyd-dynion. Rydym yn gwneud peth mawr ar sut rydych chi'n cyfathrebu, sut rydych chi'n arwain, sut rydych chi'n rheoli. Ac rydym yn ceisio dysgu'r canddyntion, nid dim ond am

chwaraeon, rydym yn ceisio edrych ar amgylcheddau gwahanol. Felly, a ydy hyn y gallwn ni ei gymryd manage and we try and teach the candidates not just about football we try and look at like different environments so is there something we can take from from formula one around communication for example between a performance director and a you know and a driver it's very very similar an analyst is watching a game from above the manager the analyst can see the game to see all tactics how does that communication work then from the analyst to the coach to the manager so we try and bring in like different people from different environments to try and not make it all about o'r anelis i'r coach, i'r rheolwr. Felly rydym yn ceisio dod i mewn i bobl gwahanol o amgylchiadau gwahanol i geisio nad yw'n gwneud pob peth yn ymwneud â phwysigrwydd a rhoi ymddygiadau gwahanol i'w gweld ar gyfer amgylchiadau gwych sy'n gallu eu llenu eu hunain i mewn i bwysigrwydd. Fy enw i yw Richard Williams. Rwy'n Rheolwr Ddatblygu Gwleidiau ar gyfer FA Cymru ac fe wnaethon i of player development for FA Wales and I did the pro license at the same time as Mikel. You had

Mikel on the pro license, you also had Thierry Henry on the pro license, you had Sol Campbell on there, you had Freddie Lundberg, so you had some really big kind of personalities from the football world on that course so it was a little bit probably a little special for guys who haven't been in that world you know. Yeah that is star-studded. There's some celebrities there. Did he stand out amongst those big names? The one thing I noticed really about working or being in the same room as him during anything we did was the clarity he had in what he wanted to do. That's the thing that I really noticed.

He was very, very clear in how his teams were going to play, how he wanted to go about getting them to do that. Roedd hynny'n ymwybodol o'i fod yn gwbl yn y ffordd y byddai'n gwneud. Roedd yn dda i'w wneud hynny. Roedd yn dda i'w wneud. Roedd yn dda i'w wneud. Roedd yn gwneud sesiynau ar y cyfranogol yn ystod y flwyddyn ar ôl ein graddedig fel hyfforddiant. He did do a session on the national conference for us, which was probably the year after we graduated as pro-license coaches. And I just remember the passing drill that he did, and I still use it now. And it's just simply an up, back and through passing drill. But the detail of movement and the detail of pass had to be perfect.

So I remember him being quite a perfectionist in terms of the way he wanted things done as well on the pitch which I think comes from that probably that La Masia background. I think it'd be fair to say probably he's the most educated person we've had probably come through the doors here on any of our courses which is a big thing to say because we've had some unbelievable managers on our programs I just think it's that level of curiosity and that level of kind of innovation, the way that he thought about things. It wasn't like he wanted to play in a typical way. He didn't have a typical vision for the way he wanted to lead and manage.

He wanted to kind of be very authentic and think out of the box a bit more. And there's some great stories about, you know, when he lived in a similar apartment block to Pep Guardiola. They thought very similarly. They were always thinking about new innovations all the time. Pep would ring Mikel at midnight and they'd go upstairs and talk about a tactical innovation

for two hours on a tactics board. That's kind of the way Mikel was. He had a real curiosity to try and innovate. You can see his team now, the way they build up and the way they play. It's trying to innovate it. This is not copying something else. You know,

it's like taking it to a new level. Would you describe Mikel as a natural coach? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's about communication coaching. A lot of it is how you get your point across,

timing of coaching, when to allow players to play and express themselves, when to go in and manage situations or correct players. But it's about being a really good communicator, I think. And yeah, you can tell that easily in terms of the way he communicates with players,

the way he talks to players. I suppose, again, what I got in terms of his personality was around kind of humility. You know, he just, you got what you saw. It always looked authentic. And that was in classroom and on the pitch it looked like he was authentic and everything he did and um a lot of that would have been i'm sure from that kind of that barcelona model that lamassia model and also i would have thought then having the opportunity to go and work with pep guardiola in his in his environment and learning

i'm sure he learned a lot from that as well but it was also about managing people I think he was really clear in the way he wanted the people under him to work and obviously the standards need to be really high but also allowing people to have a voice you know and allowing people to be able to work within the environment and do their jobs do you mean but obviously having having him as the leader setting the standard and being out front and making sure that he did it too. To lead properly, you've got to lead by example. At the same time as completing his coaching education, Arteta's coaching career began in 2016 when he was taken on as an assistant by a fellow La Masia graduate. Pep Guardiola now has his wish.

Pep Guardiola was an experienced player at Barcelona when Arteta was a youngster, aiming to follow in his footsteps. Arteta even replaced him during a friendly against Hertha Berlin. Now Guardiola wanted Arteta alongside him to start his first foray into English football after leaving Bayern Munich. Sam Lee is the Manchester City correspondent with The Athletic. He was part of the original backroom team at Manchester City, but obviously that Guardiola backroom staff had been together a lot at Bayern Munich and Barcelona. So for him to come into that was kind of huge credit to him in the first place,

because I don't think that's easy to do. Guardiola, I think Guardiola had used him in the past. You know, when he was a Barcelona and they played Chelsea he always liked to phone like men on the ground and he'd known Mikel Arteta and he was okay I'm playing against Chelsea what do you think and obviously that was when Mikel was still a player and I feel like that's one of the big things that he brought to that coaching staff when he joined up with City in 2016 because they also had Brian Kidd and you know Pep would say oh Brian Kidd's good for this,

and he'll tell you all these historical things about going to Burnley away or whatever. But Mikel Arteta actually knew what it took to play at Burnley away because he'd done it just before that. He knew the ins and outs of the tactics of other teams, teams he'd played for, teams he'd played against. And I think in those immediate first days, he was really, really useful for Guardiola in terms of, OK, this is what English football was like you know Brian Kidd he's obviously very useful to tell you some of the

the quirkier details and that kind of stuff but Mikel Arteta had kind of been there and done it and he could like practically tell Pep what to expect and then on the training ground he could get stuck in and he could coach on there as well because he only just hung up his boots so he was still physically and technically capable of keeping up and doing the rondos and demonstrating and all that kind of stuff so it was one of the one of the guys who got pep's idea of football but also one of the few that could actually still kind of demonstrate it to the players as well and now we see the man described as mr manchester city Vincent Kompany, the captain, who actually dances. The captain at the time of Arteta's arrival at Man City was Vincent Kompany.

Yeah, he was probably at my age now when he started as an assistant coach for Pep. And, you know, full of energy, really intense, really intelligent. And I think everybody that knows him, no one is surprised that he's doing well. And actually for people who are in the job, it's worth restating how much of an overachievement he's actually doing with Arsenal. You know, they have been consistent, they have been good this season and have been competing with one of the best sides that the Premier League has ever known. So, yeah, it's hats off to the work he's done.

We were together in Barcelona, then we separated our work and careers and then we got together in the same city. It's just beautiful. Someone who got an insight into the Guardiola-Arteta dynamic was Richard Williams, Arteta's classmate on the pro licence course in Wales, when Man City came to train at Dragon Park

ahead of a game against Swansea. He and Mikel organised a situation where when one of the sessions had finished on the pitch that Pep and his coaching team would come up into the boardroom here and do a Q&A with the pro-licence candidates that could make it because it was kind of a short notice thing. So of the, I suppose, 18-20 pro-licence candidates, there were 12, maybe 14 of us managed to come here for the day. We watched the session, which was awesome.

People like Sergio Aguero and David Silva and Kolarov and players like this out there training, which was really good to watch. Watching Pep obviously coach the team that day in preparation for the Swansea game and then doing the Q&A in the boardroom. And the one thing I noticed, which was really good, and this is something I'll never forget,

was we set the boardroom up in kind of, there were maybe five tables, and there was two or three of us on each table. And then we had the lectern at the top, at the front, for Pep to stand for the Q&A. And he said, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everybody around one table. So he brought everybody in around one table,

and it was Mikel and Pep at the front of the, around this one table, 14 of us. So it was far more intimate um and he pep wanted it like that and Mikel the same but you could clearly see that a great relationship because it wasn't formal by any stretch of imagination or it was really kind of informal it was an informal chat we had some questions we asked them they answered them between them there was there was joking and there was I suppose banter between them as well when they were giving those questions or giving those answers back to us, so it looked like a really comfortable, nice

environment. This session you saw of Manchester City day before a game, not many people would have access to that, I'm interested, did Mikel Arteta take a bit of that session? Did Pep Guardiola allow him to take responsibility? Yeah, he was around the session, yeah, he was obviously part of the lead-in to the game, so there were different parts of the session so there was

a small possession session um which again we've stolen well not stolen but we we use as well as part of our national youth team i suppose bible of of sessions that we use a lot so they did a session just out here in front of this window in fact across the pitch when and mikhail was led that one um and then they moved to a bigger session, which was attacking that goal, working on kind of back-and-through movements, mostly around Sergio Aguero. But yeah, it was really interesting, you know,

the dynamic of how they managed the session. It was a good experience for us. So Mikel, we worked together two years, and he will be teaching since he was born, his period in England and Obama so maybe I learned more than you know more of him than than than Mikkel what we we were together so so how similar are Guardiola and Arteta let's hear again from two people who have worked closely with both of them former

Barca head of methodology Paco Cerullo and Dutch great Ronald de Boer. I think Miguel learned a lot from Pep. How to address a game, how to think about certain aspects of the game. I think that definitely helped as being a manager. And, of course, he has his own idea, his own style, probably talking to the players. But if I see Arsenal play, it's sort of the city too, how they play.

They have the same philosophy. They both drank from the same cup they met at barca although at different stages but when they met a few years later they exchanged views on the game i think arteta has excellent communication team building and motivation skills but i think guardiola is a bit more forceful purely because he has been around longer than Arteta. First as a player, then as a coach and later as a student of different styles of play in the different countries where he has lived. Guardiola seems a little bit more tactically advanced than Mikel. I don't want to say that he is better but he has more options than Mikel. I don't know if it's

because of his knowledge of the game or simply because he has more top players. I don't know if it's because of his knowledge of the game or simply because he has more top players. I don't know Mikel's entire career, but it is no coincidence that when he was at City with Pep, they gelled perfectly. And it is no wonder that now, when they face each other, they know each other inside out. They know more about each other and from themselves. Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season at Arsenal, but after that there were some tough times. Successive eighth-place finishes before just missing out on the top four in his third season following a collapse in their final few games. A few moments ago for Arsenal,

but now they're back in defensive mode. And Bruno Guimaraes is going to score! And that's it! Newcastle 2-0 up! Six minutes to go! Arsenal look down and out. But fans were told to trust the process and slowly but surely he rebuilt a team in his image. Players who didn't fit into his mentality had been cast aside. And in 2022-2023, Arteta turned Arsenal into title contenders again,

impressing his former boss, the Arsenal icon, Arsene Wenger. I'm very happy because I believe they played with Man City, they are the two best teams who play the most attractive football. They play light, mobile, light on their feet. They make intelligent decisions in the final third. They have a desire to play together in the final third, what is very interesting to see. And you feel a huge potential there. I feel that Dastner at the moment, they have in every position a good enough player to win the premiership. They face, of course, a tough opponent with Man City,

but the potential is there. But you have to grab your chance when you can because you never know next year Liverpool or Chelsea, I don't know the big teams, can come up and fight again for the championship. Arsene Wenger there speaking at the Premier League's Hall of Fame Awards shortly before the defeat to Brighton that effectively ended Arsenal's title challenge. Despite that disappointment, back in his hometown of San Sebastian,

where Mikel Arteta still regularly returns, there's pride at the way he's established himself at the highest level of football management. Here's Roberto Montiel again, his first ever coach. We are very proud. A child who has been in this club that goes on to become a professional footballer and has succeeded as a player and as a coach, this is massive for us. We keep in contact a lot. I've been in Liverpool with him many times over the years.

Once I was about to go there, and at the last minute I had to change my ticket and go to another city because it turned out that Mikel was recovering from an injury in Cadiz. I had to go to Cadiz for three days. Then we took a taxi to Seville, and then we went to Liverpool. He caused me a motivator because I can whip him into shape. During the recent

international break, when it was his birthday on March 26, he came here to watch a game between Antiguoco youth players and Real Sociedad. He came to watch it and be with us. Let's finish where we started, in amongst the Arsenal fans who count the boy from the Basque country as one of their own. So how long do they want this Arteta era to last? Double what Arsene Wenger did. I don't care what he achieves, just the love he's brought back for football I hope he stays for life. We're here, we're competing and it's wonderful to say that, first time in 19 years. And I'm

convinced everything that I see, the way that we play, the way that we're just so serious about it, we're here for years to come and hopefully he's going to be at the helm. Arsene Wenger not only gave us football lessons but he gave us lessons in life and I see Arteta doing exactly the same. For Mikel Arteta I'd say it brings more passion in the dressing room and brings it out to the players in the matches and makes it more happy for the fans to watch football. How long would you like Mikel Arteta to stay at Arsenal? Until he gets old.

Until he gets old. The Football Daily Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hi, I'm Ryland and I'm here to talk about men. Because in recent years, we have all seen the man in Britain undergo radical change as the rule book has been well and truly ripped apart. So I'm going to talk to a range of prominent figures and celebs who have each got their own diverse and contrasting takes on what it means to be a man today. I want to prise open the fault lines of modern masculinity and get to grips with the changing landscape and try to get some answers so that we can pass them on to the next generation.

This is Ryland, How To Be A Man, from BBC Radio 4. Listen on BBC Sounds.