Football Daily - The most political World Cup ever?

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

We’ve got together with Americast and Newscast for three special episodes on what could be the most political World Cup ever. How much will Donald Trump make it about him? Will the US-Iran war affect the tournament? And why are tickets so expensive? Our own John Murray, Newscast's Adam Fleming, and Americast's Marianna Spring and Anthony Zurcher tell you everything you need to know about what’s going on off the pitch. In this episode we look at why the US, Canada, and Mexico were picked as hosts, and who’s benefiting from the Trump-Infantino bromance. Parts 2 and 3 are in the Newscast and Americast feeds on BBC Sounds. Listen to Newscast here: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/p05299nl Listen to Americast here: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p07h19zz

This is the Football Daily podcast from Find Life Sports. Hello, it's the Football Daily. I'm John Murray, and this is a special program in which I've got together with some of the BBC's other favorite podcasts, newscast and Ameriast. I have been to seven World Cups. This will be my eighth. It feels as though politics have been involved in almost all of them, as well as the football. But this may well be the biggest example of that yet, which is saying something. There is so much to discuss.

For this, before I fly off to Mexico for the opening match, we've got together with newscasts Adam Fleming and Americast's Marianna Spring and Anthony Zerker. So this will be the first of three episodes that look at the politics going on around the World Cup. And if Football Daily fans want to hear the other two, go to the newscast or Ameriast. feeds to listen. And also, subscribe if you like what you hear. But for the moment, we hope you like this one. Hello, it's Adam in the newscast studio. And it is Marianna sitting next to Adam in the Newscast studio. And it's Anthony in the BBC Bureau in Washington, D.C. And this is John sitting at my desk where I am putting my final preparations to what I'm planning to use once I get to the World Cup

for our commentaries. John, does that mean you have a big binder? That's a stationary item very close to my heart. I'm looking around my desk here, Adam, and I've got piles of paper. I've got the current edition of World Soccer. I've got Diego Maradonna's autobiography. And I've got various other books and files. So the answer is yes. Mariana's just got her phone, which has followed out of her pocket. That was that little thud was. She's got everything on one device. No books or bookshelves, unfortunately. Right. We're recording three episodes. This is the first one. We're doing it on Thursday, the 4th of June. And it is the afternoon. just so you know what the world looks like

as we're recording this episode right now. And this first in our three-part series, we're going to look at kind of the genesis of this World Cup, how did it end up being in Canada, the USA and Mexico, which is quite an unusual situation. And also this intriguing relationship, I don't want to call it a bromance because that's a bit of a cliche now,

between the two presidents, Donald Trump and Gianni Infantino of FIFA, because that is an interesting story in itself. So, John, when did you realize you would be spending this summer in North America. Yeah, well, it was when it was announced that it would be the very first World Cup that was to have three hosts in the United States, Canada and Mexico. And the reason for that is it is the biggest World Cup that there's ever been. So it's been expanded by FIFA to include 48 teams.

So it'll take place over 39 days, that's as opposed to the 32 days it would take under the previous format. And I think as well, most significantly in terms of the number of matches, now 48 Team World Cup means 104 matches compared to 64 in the previous recent editions of the World Cup. So teams these days will have to get through eight matches to win it instead of seven. So that's it. It is very simply the biggest that there's ever been. And Mariana, because it's America and it's so polarised and Trump is so done, dominant as a political figure. This is like, I don't know, the Oscars, the Met Gala, whatever.

There's a Trump element to it, irrespective of what we're actually talking about as the substance of the thing. Yeah, and I think that's actually why so many people are quite engaged with this, even who aren't that fuss about football. I mean, I say this is that like I'm very obsessed with football. But quite a lot of people I've been talking to and getting messages from who've been spoting stuff on their social media feeds and saying, oh, like this is coming up about the World Cup.

So much of that content is about the politics rather than the sport itself. And I think it would be quite interesting to see when, the World Cup actually gets going how much the politics eclipses the football or not. Maybe everyone will just love the football and the politics will end up being separate. But I think some of the tensions we're expecting mean that that might not be the case. And Anthony, obviously, I mean, it's exciting that it's coming to your home turf. But I just wonder, has this come to your turf as a political journalist as well? Absolutely.

I've been keeping my eye on this ever since the United States was announced as one of the co-hosts of the world. And then when Donald Trump was reelected in 2024, it couldn't be very early on that he's going to be president not only during the Olympics in 28 and America's 250th birthday celebrations this July, but also the World Cup. He loves being center stage. He loves being the person, particularly with sporting events. He's been had a connection to sports for most of his adult life owning a sports football, American football franchise, being involved in boxing. So you knew he was going to inject himself right into the middle of this. And with Donald Trump comes all of the divisiveness, all of the politics, all of the chaos that he has brought to politics ever since he first ran for president in 2015. Although, John, I just wonder with you as a veteran, and I mean that in a nice way, that actually this is maybe nothing new because loads of World Cups take place against a backdrop of controversial things, usually in the host country.

Yeah, I'll take that in the manner intended. Yeah, as I say, I have personally been to seven of the World Cups. This is the 23rd. And really, actually, since the very first one in 1930 in Uruguay, I mean, politics played a big part in that, in the fact that it was decided to be in Uruguay, who had one of the strongest national teams at the time. But if you think back, the next one, 1934 in Italy, Mussolini was all over that one. And the first one I can properly remember watching on the television when Scotland were famously there, Ali's Tartan Army in 1978. And I've actually got my

World Cup 78 Panini sticker book here with me as well, which I almost filled up. But I remember it as an 11-year-old watching being absolutely wrapped by it on the television with the ticket tape coming down and just the feel of it and the sort of blurry television pictures. It felt like such a long way away. But of course in later years, you know, I've learned that Argentina was being run by a military junta at the time. It was a dictatorship and, you know, they really ran the show. And, you know, it was almost as political as any World Cup had been at the time in

1978. Other brands of stickers and collectibles are available. Now, when I think back to the World Cups that have happened, while I've been a professional journalist. I think of Qatar in 2022, where quite a lot of migrant workers died when they were building the infrastructure. And then the Russian invasion of Crimea in 2014, which was obviously before the World Cup happened in Russia in 2018. And when you talk to people about their memories of those tournaments, they talk about the football. They don't talk about the controversies in the build-up to the tournament. Yeah. And I think that, you know, in the build-up, especially, there

There's a lot more kind of analysis and critique and reflection on the politics and what it'll mean and how it will unfold. And we saw that in the buildup to both Russia and Qatar. But once the football gets going, I think the question, I think this is the big question for the United States. And I'm sure, Anthony, you've got lots to say about this, you know, thinking about where there could be flashpoints, if there's any gun violence, if there are any issues around ICE and immigration raids and that sort of thing. I think it's whether there's any agro that unfolds during the tournament itself that could dictate whether we talk about politics. Because if you think of Russia, for example, or Qatar, largely, although there was controversy before those tournaments, they ran pretty smoothly and there weren't any problems.

And Anthony, we'll dig into some of those issues in this episode and in future episodes as well, because this is a three-part miniseries are doing, so we've got plenty of time. But Anthony, just give us this kind of the origin story of this World Cup. Why did the three countries get together in the first place? Well, I think part of it was because the scope of this World Cup was much bigger. As John mentioned, more teams that this was going to be one of the biggest World Cup in the tournament's history. They needed to be able to produce it over a much wider piece of real estate. We had had joint World Cups before.

obviously Japan and South Korea hosted a World Cup. But this one with the United States, with Mexico, with North America, they all pitched the idea together. They thought this would be a unifying type of proposal. These three countries that were closely connected geographically, but also by their trade relationships, that they would be able to put on the kind of show that would befit this much larger World Cup undertaking. So it was quite a proud moment for, I think, all three countries in the beginning. I think they saw this as an opportunity to put together a unified front and put their best foot forward. And when you read the original bids document, which is this huge doorstopper of a book that they put together to win the bid a few years ago,

the theme that just keeps coming out of that. You don't need to be a football expert. It's just that all the stadiums, or stadia, we should say, are already built. there's loads of hotels, there's loads of airports. This is ready to go pre-packed World Cup venues, set of venues, that Morocco who were competing in that bidding process just couldn't match really, John. Yeah, that's right. It's a little bit like a political manifesto, isn't it?

The bid document. You can always go back, can't you, and say, well, what about this? What's in the bid document doesn't always turn out to be exactly what happens on the ground. but, you know, with the USA as the main stay of the bid against Morocco, who tried and tried and tried and failed and failed and actually, since then, they will be hosting the next World Cup, along with Portugal and Spain, so they will get their chance next time round.

But yes, that was the infrastructure that existed in the United States and in Canada and Mexico, you know, was a strong deciding factor. field, particularly when you look back to other recent World Cups, when it's been a real rush to get the stadiums finished. Although in saying that, I do know that in Mexico City, they've updated the Ashtaka Stadium. And I know that's a little bit of a race against time to get that ready for the start of the World Cup. Good. Good. There's a challenge, Anika, subplot, because you do need that in the buildup to all major sporting events, even if the hosts claim everything's ready to go. Anthony, also in that big book, the kind of the big slogan that they keep pushing is unity,

certainty, opportunity. Well, certainly two of those three things have been in short supply in North America

in the two Trump presidencies. Yeah, it's been a difficult time for U.S. Mexico, Canada relations.

Even in Donald Trump's first term with what he was doing on the U.S. Mexico border and the crackdown and the call to build a wall,

but particularly now in this second term, which started in January of last year, because Donald Trump focused on tariffs and trade and the two countries or two of the first countries he targeted with tariffs were Mexico and Canada, two of the United States' biggest trading partners. That alone would have

been disruptive and that alone would have cast a shadow over this tournament. But you throw in Donald Trump calling for Canada to be America's 51st state, referring to then Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as Governor Trudeau and the back and forth between these two countries where Canada took all of America's liquor products off their shelves. The United States were prized with their own additional tariffs. And it has made for some unfriendly relationships. And you actually see it with some of the Canadian attitudes towards other countries. Mark Carney, the current prime minister giving speeches abroad that directed his country to move in a different direction than the United States and start exploring other relationships outside of what had been, the close U.S.-Canada

their relations. Relations with Mexico are still tense because of border concerns, immigration concerns and crackdowns of undocumented migrants who have come into the United States through Mexico. So all of that puts the relations not on a unified kind of a footing that I think they had hoped that this World Cup would produce. I would say, Adam, by the way, that having been at the draw in Washington for the for the finals, which which planned out the whole schedule that we have. Typical politics, they were all on the stage together, Donald Trump, Mark Carney, Claudia Shinebound, Johnny Infantino.

You know, they were, you'd think that they were the greatest of mates, and that was just a few months ago. And so, you know, they have to get along for the sake of the World Cup. Oh, so, Mariana, I'm just thinking, if you were going to watch all 104 World Cup matches, and if anyone was going to do that or was able to do that, it would be you, I think, that I know. 78 of those matches are in the US, 13 each in Canada and Mexico.

So actually it's going to feel like a very USA heavy World Cup. Yeah, and I would say as well that a lot of the kind of outward, a lot of the content we're seeing and the messaging, I mean, to be honest, if you were Mexico and Canada, you might be a bit annoyed really because you've kind of been slightly lost in the, I think particularly because of the political context and because Donald Trump is such a sort of advocate for the US hosting the World Cup, the noise that I'm seeing, certainly in the social media world, but beyond,

is very much focused on the USA and not really on the other places. And you're suddenly like, oh, hang on a second, this match is in Mexico City or this is happening in Canada. And if you were then, you'd be thinking, hang on a sec. We are actually a bit involved. But like you point out, less involved in the US. And that kind of explains why so much of the focus is on America. Although, John, I mean, Mexico, I mean, they've got their own place in World Cup history. host the history books. Yep, this is the first time that any country will hold matches in

three men's World Cup tournaments. And actually, they've held a women's World Cup as well. So that is also a record to host four senior World Cup tournaments. And the Aztec Stadium, where the opening match will be played, is one of the iconic venues for the World Cup. If you were to put together a show reel of, I don't know, the top 20, 25 moments of the World Cup, probably four or five of them would be inside the Aztec stadium, which is where we saw the Diego Maradona hand of God goal in 1986. Both Pele and Maradona have won the World Cup in that stadium. You know, England have a great history there as well because they played there during the course of the 86 World Cup. before that match against Argentina. And, you know, it is one of the iconic venues. Yeah, I'm here in the United States,

and I remember at the Hand of God goal in 1986. That was one of my first World Cup memories. It made headlines here in the U.S., even before soccer really took off in the United States is something that people rank and follow people paid attention to. Although, Anthony, America's history of hosting the World Cup, mainly in my teenage mind was Diana Ross missing a penalty at the very lavish opening ceremony in 1994.

I'm sure there was much more spectacular football than that in the following weeks, but the thing that lodged in my mind was that image. Yeah, that wasn't the best start to it, obviously. But it was the first chance for America to see a World Cup up close. And I will say that a lot of Americans really got into it and enjoyed it.

You know, America usually doesn't pay attention to the rest of the world unless it's right in front of their noses. And this puts soccer right in front of our noses. and it helped launch the MLS, Major League Soccer League, that is still going on and has expanded and has quite a following here in the United States now. And I remember there was a July 4th knockout round game between the United States and Brazil in that tournament.

And on the 4th of July, the United States playing, it was quite a celebration. And I actually went to a game here in Washington, D.C., because it hosted some opening round games and a knockout round game. I saw Spain beat Switzerland. in the knockout round. And so it pulled a lot of Americans in, uh, despite the kind of rocky start that it got off to with those opening ceremonies. And I rewatched the clip of Diana Ross doing the

penalty. And in defense of Diana Ross, she actually's not that wide of the goal. She's pretty close. And also, she is singing live in a massive ceremony. And then she goes on to a stage to do the rest of the show. So she had other things on our mind. And also she didn't present herself as like, top female athlete. She was like top, top singer. Anyway, so that's my defense of Diana. It was the tournament that started and finished with a missed penalty because Roberto Baggio missed the penalty that decided it for Brazil and it started with Diana Ross's missed penalty in the opening ceremony. Poetic, John.

Pop and football. Our two passions combined. Right, talking of celebrities, John, just introduce me to the FIFA President Gianni Infantino, who is actually becoming, I feel, sort of more and more of a global character. Yeah, and I think part of that. that is his very close relationship with Donald Trump. You know, he was seen as the man who would bring to FIFA. You know, he'd change everything after the set blatter years

and everything that we associated with that. And that he would clean up FIFA, clean up the World Game. And he's very much done it his own way. And I don't think it would be an understatement to say that he enjoyed. the power, and there is immense power of being the FIFA president. So, you know, I'm not sure when eventually his time in that role will come to an end. And I have a feeling that if he's able to extend it as long as he possibly can, he would do that. And anyone that has been circling, who, you know, is seen as a potential successor, just seems to have melted away. He is, he is an

extremely powerful man, possibly the most powerful man in world sport. And let's get a little flavor of his relationship with Donald Trump. This is a little bit of their conversation in the Oval Office, which was in August 2025, when there was a handover of some silverware, although it was probably actually goldware now that I think about it. That's why we brought as well this,

which is the winner's trophy. It is the trophy that the winner of the FIFA World Cup wins. only the FIFA president, presidents of countries, and then those who win can touch it, because it's for winners only. And since you are a winner, of course, you can, as well, touch it. It's pretty heavy. It's the winner trophy. The last one who lifted that is Leo Messi, Leonardo Messi of Argentina.

And here it is in the Oval Office, in the White House. Can I keep it? What are you? Well, you can't. We're not giving it back. We're not giving it back. That's serious. It fits well.

That goes very well on the wall right over there. Put it right below the angel. It fits well here, I think. Until we have to give it to the next winter. That's fine. That's a beautiful piece of gold, I would say. That's beautiful. Gianni Infantino seems to be handing things over to Donald Trump every time he sees him.

Well, I was going to say that I feel like Infantino and Donald Trump's relationship, certainly, well, people's discussion about that relationship really was turbocharged when this incredibly viral clip spread everywhere when Chelsea won this competition which is like the, what is it even cool? Club World Cup. Sorry, not to disparage it, not to disparage it. But that's interesting because you love football

and even you have to sort of go back into your memory banks to remember the competition. Well, it's a sort of new, it's kind of a bit of a new thing. And so Chelsea won this. competition and there were these clips of the team lifting the trophy and Donald Trump is just standing beside them and you can see

like, you know, really famous footballers like Cole Palmer and Reese James of Chelsea being like, hang on why is this man here? Because it's that is not normal like the president or whoever doesn't normally hang about on the side of the team lifting the trophy. And a lot of people found the clip really funny. Some people were also like

hang on a sec, is this football getting political and quite a few of the footballers afterwards like Cole Palmer were asked, why did you react like that and essentially their answer was like we weren't quite sure why he was still there. But all of that felt quite symptomatic of the closeness of the relationship between Donald Trump and Infantino, e.g., it's totally fine for him to hang about as they lift the trophy. And it felt like Donald Trump sort of getting into football. And I would say that Infantino, separately from Donald Trump, although this is the case for both of them, they are either sort of very hated or

very loved online. They are very, very divisive figures who are very good at kind of playing the outrage machine in that way. And Infantino is probably the first person, I guess, I don't know what you think, John, but it doesn't feel like characters. Often FIFA or these football bodies feel very faceless, and he's certainly not faceless. And that's been quite interesting, seeing how that's unfolded and how people direct their anger and frustration at FIFA at Infantino specifically. Well, that scene, which was in the same stadium where the World Cup final will be this year in New Jersey, on the stage, went against all of the. the protocols that I'm used to saying as an observer of football, as a football commentator.

You know, that's where, that's the point where the suits leave the scene. And actually, at the time, Infantino tried to persuade Donald Trump to leave Chelsea on the stage with Rich James lifting the trophy. And he wasn't for budging. Yeah, you sort of saw him just kind of staring at them. They were lifting the street. Yeah, welcome, welcome to Donald Trump's America, where protocol does not matter. He's going to do what he wants.

And if it's a big stage, as I mentioned before, he is going to find a way to get on it and stay on it, even if it makes people uncomfortable. Although, John, I'm just wondering, with your knowledge of World Cups past, are there actually that many opportunities for the leader of the host country to actually insert themselves into the events in a big way? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we've had this probably most notably with the last couple of tournaments in Qatar. And do you remember Lionel Messi coming forward and having... that cloak put on him to go and lift up the trophy. I mean, that was unusual. But, you know, again, the dignitary stayed out of the way there. And of course, Putin was front and center of the World Cup in Russia in 2018, particularly when it came to the final. And do you remember as well,

the president of Croatia? Because the presentation of the trophy happened during a torrential downpour. Oh, yeah. And he was given an umbrella. But the president of Croatia, who was brilliantly turned out, she was wearing the sort of red and white checkered outfit of Croatia. She was left out on her own without an umbrella, with the rain pouring down on it. Yeah, absolutely soaked. I honestly think Infantino is the most kind of clippable person

who's ever been related to FIFA. I just think I've rarely seen... Well, Sett Blatter gave it a good goal. He did, but he was not nearly... Exactly, but not even nearly as prolific, I would say, as Infantino. But maybe that tells us something about how social media's evolved rather than the people themselves. And Anthony, I was talking about Infantino handing over gold things to Donald Trump. We alluded to the Peace Prize, which was newly created by FIFA, around about the time Donald Trump was at peak anger of not receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

And he handed over to him in the draw at the Trump Kennedy Center, which I remember watching that Friday afternoon and just finding a completely bizarre kind of event to watch, but quite compelling. Did that make any difference that peace prize? Because I feel that is when Trump became sort of less interested in peace and actually the number of war has increased. And you remember he wrote that letter that was leaked to the Prime Minister of Norway saying maybe if you're not going to give you the Peace Prize, I'm not going to do as much for peace as I had been. And low and befold, now we've been in a war with Iran for over two months.

But I think he was, I think he liked getting that World Cup. He's surprised. It was hilarious because they were so coy about who was going to get it ahead of time. The announcer was going to be this peace prize. And of course, everyone knew that Infantino was going to give it to Trump. And he did. And Trump seemed visibly moved by that. I think they put the medal around his neck and he held the trophy. And actually, it was in the Oval Office in December. So just maybe a week or two after that draw. And there was this peace prize trophy sitting right in the middle or on the end of his desk, on the resolute desk in the Oval Office. So it is, he kept it and he's kept it in the Oval Office. So it is a way, I think it illustrates how well Johnny, as Donald Trump calls him, Johnny Infantino, has been able

to build this relationship with Trump, complete with Infantino. If you remember in February, put on a red USA hat at a world, the Board of Peace, a Board of Peace meeting here in Washington, in D.C. because Trump has invited him to all of these major diplomatic events. And I think that another sign that he knows what, he knows how to connect with Donald Trump. He knows what Donald Trump likes and he has been using that very effectively. Now, as we come to the end of our first episode of our trilogy of episodes of podcasts about the World Cup and the issues around it and the politics and some of the themes, can anyone from my sister podcast help me out about why there's this LGBTQ plus pride match, because of course June is Pride Month around the world,

where the two teams playing it are Iran and Egypt, which sounds like some kind of practical joke. Because homosexuality is not necessarily promoted in those countries. Yeah, it definitely is remarkable that the stars have aligned for this to be this way. Now, it was a coincidence. The organizers, local organizers in Seattle are having pride events, that week. They designated this as the pride match before we knew that Egypt and Iran were going to be the two countries playing there. But this has obviously become a bigger issue. It kind of shows how politics can inject itself sometimes by accident. And there have been objections from Egypt that this is going on during their match to no avail. Right. We have kicked off our

three-part series about some of the issues around the World Cup. We've looked at how it has ended up being in North America in the first place. We looked at the big personalities of two of the presidents involved, the president of FIFA and Donald Trump, obviously, president of the USA. Lots more to discuss in the next two episodes of our three-part world cup mini-series, which is a co-product. Well, just like the World Cup itself. What was the phrase in the big document?

Certainty, unity and opportunity. I don't know which of us is which. Podcast is which country and motto. Newscast is... I think you're America. Yeah, I think we're all combinations of all three. Which podcast is you know? Oh, then America is not America?

Ameriast is not America. Weird. So much to discuss in this World Cup. John, thank you very much. Thank you. Mariana and Anthony, thanks to you too. Thank you. Bye, y'all.

So there we are. That is the first of our three podcasts around the issues of this World Cup. And if you are a Football Daily listener, if you like that, that is good because there are two more to listen to. Over on either the newscast or AmeriCast feeds. subscribing to both means you will be across the biggest stories on both sides of the Atlantic. So don't miss the other two.