Football Daily - The Reign of Spain

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

Mark Chapman is joined by Guillem Balague and Rafa Benitez to tell the story of how Spain found the formula to keep reproducing success. The panel examines how Spain established that framework, the special relationship with the Barcelona academy and the Basque influence. Jordi Gratacos, International Director of Academies between 2009-11 and 2016-20 drops by to talk the footballing success of the Barcelona way. Plus former Chelsea captain and Spain international Cesar Azpilicueta talks identity of the Spanish national team.TIMECODES:02:10 Origins with Guillem 10:00 Student of football 15:40 Jordi Gratacos on Barca 28:50 Basque influence & tree trunk throwing! 38:50 Cesar Azpilicueta 45:10 Spain style 49:40 Divisions amongst some fans?

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This is the Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. 66 days then since Spain were confirmed as world champions for a second time. So we'll tell the story of how they found the formula to keep reproducing success. We'll look at how they established that framework, special relationship with LaMathia, the Basque influence, how Spain's football identity has travelled beyond its borders. And with us to do this, our Spanish football, expert and part of Euroleague's Guillaume Balaget. And also for the first hour, Rafa Benitez.

I'm delighted to say, we'll join us as well. Evening to you both, this will be nice for you both as we just celebrate, celebrate Spain, Rafa. Yeah, happy with that, because I think we're an interesting issue. It's an interesting issue. We can go to 2008 and say that that's when everything started, really. Spain win the European Championships. when we're looking at from the men's side,

lay the foundations for a footballing dynasty. Since then they've won five of the last 10 major international tournaments available to them. The women have won the World Cup. There's also been 6 under 19 European championships, 3 under 21 European championships and the Olympic gold in Paris. And then if you look at club level, Spanish teams have won half of all the available Champions League and Europa League titles since 2008-9.

So we're looking at 18 out of 36, and that's since 2008. But if we're going to go back to the beginning, Guillem, we go to 1992. That's where our story starts, yes? Yeah, this is the kind of show where you start thinking, I know what brought Spanish football success,

and you will think of Barcelona, La Masia, different cultures coming together after years of not being happy with each other, you know, the Catalans, the past, the Madrid-leggios, and all of that is amazing. Or better said, they are part of a bigger thing that happened very far away from the lights and from people's attention. So, you know, sit down, make a coffee and be prepared to be surprised because this story has been told in a way that is not the way it happened. And you're right, you have to go back to all that time back when football went to university.

So around the Barcelona Olympic Games, a government-supported program, Collado, began putting money into paid positions in the United States. sport at different levels. Coaches, physical coaches, physiotherapists, sporting professionals. And as a consequence, once you can make a living out of that, you could dedicate more of your time to learn, to study and to develop professionals.

So basically, you're creating a generation of people who were becoming a specialist. Then, particularly through university and something called the ENF, the National Institute of Physical Education, people could spend years studying sport and physical education and graduate as such. The thing was the university education wasn't enough for UFO coaching recognition. So coaches like Rafa Benetev had to go to university and get an extensive academic education

and everything to do with sport, then go to the Federation and got a coaching pathway to get UFO recognized qualifications. So instead of replacing one to the other, they had both. And these coaches, who started learning in the university, became a little bit like teachers. I mean, Rafa's still got a bit of a teacher look in him. But they are constantly correcting, on and of the pitch, I must say, convincing, explaining. And also many of these academic students became part of youth setups. So they educated the players.

And the last thing I want to say about it, because this is a very important part of what happened. In fact, they created a new methodology. And those physical coaches or coaches became the bridge between. the managers who tend to be at that time in the 90s, former players, but didn't know how to translate that idea into the pitch. But these physical coaches became the bridge between the ideas of the manager and the pitch. So again, evolved ideas and developed the learning. Given Giam's explanation of that, I mean, there are so many questions that follow on it,

follow on from it, Rafa. But what was that system that you went through like then? Yeah, I think you both are very good journalist, and I am a coach, Omanager. Then I have to go back to explain. As I Gilles M said, it's more complicated than just to have the teams and then winning trophy. So Spain, they won. I was doing a little bit of research. No, in 1986, Spain won the under 21.

Oh, sorry, my problem. So under 21 European games, with Luis Suarez as a coach, nothing to do. with La Mascia, nothing to do with Real Madrid, all these kind of things, so everything was totally different. But Spain were not consistent winning trophies in the sport in general. So the ADO plan, the ADO plan, was created in 1988 to support the professional athletes that they have no big money to give them a scholarship and publicity through different companies,

the Spanish TV and different companies. and it was created in 1988 for the Olympic Games in 1992. So that was an improvement in everything in the sport. The in F that he said, the physical education universities, I was in this process because in the 70s, Spain was more about

physicality and technique, more or less. Italy, and I want to say that, because I think it's important, Italy was working about the priority was the physicality of the game. So you have teams like Holland and they have the technique

and then you have Germany now trying to copy the Spanish way and then you have Portugal later on with the tactical way. The difference between Spain and the other countries, England that you have, you won the Youth Cup under 17

in 2017 and under 20s in 2017 and since then you are winning. You are closed in the final, but you are not winning. We were creating in Spain a group of fitness coaches that they knew about football. So I went to Liverpool, John Morse University, to see the program of the sports scientists. And they didn't have the knowledge in football that we had. They were really good in fitness, but with the ball on the pitch, they didn't know how to manage. So you didn't have in England this professional. This specialist in football,

fitness and sport medicine and everything that we were studying in the university. So that is a crucial part of the formation. Why Spain was improving and has been improving since then? Because we work in the formation of everything. So we work in the technique, so the cognitive part of the game. But we work in the understanding of the game, the perception. We work on the tactics. Did you actually view yourself as teachers? Yeah. So I remember when I went to Liverpool, my first year, you know, everybody knows that we won the champion league, but people were surprised that I was always on the pitch. And that was our way to coach our players individually. So when you are winning, if you pay attention to the details, oh, it's great, it's pay attention of the details. When you are losing,

just too much. Come on, leave some freedom to the players. You know, that is like that. So my formation was athletics, judo, basketball, football, psychology, sport medicine, biomechanics, everything, everything in the university.

So you were analysing details of players that nobody maybe could see. A former player has the experience of maybe tactics, but he doesn't know, for example, the ages of when you have to teach the children and what you have to teach the children. Then that is crucial because if you go, you are talking about 2008, when Luis Arragones, when they won the euros,

Spain has already a few years of this plan, a lot of athletes, a lot of professors, a lot of fitness coaches with experience in football in particular, that they were coaching people. So if you have Silva that was in Canaria, so you have Iniesta that was in Albafayette, have Roderino or you have Lamin Jamal or you have Shavi or you have Busquet. So you have a lot of Torres, a lot of players, David Villa.

They were from different schools, different academies in Spain. Let me just add there. So you had these teachers teaching. And what happens is the player becomes a student. So from the beginning very earlier on, the player is ready to learn. So they know they're going to go into a training session where they will be, stops, what there will be explanations. Some of it has to be developed by the players themselves.

So there's already a filter through intelligence and how much they want to learn. That jumps again back to Liverpool just to see the difference with the English football culture if you like. And correct me if I'm wrong, Raffa, but you players at the beginning didn't like to be a train session which you stopped and explained. They wanted high tempo, they wanted to clash, they wanted to run all the time.

And when you stopped to explain, they weren't perhaps ready to learn? Would that be true? It depends because my experience is, I was a player in the Academy of Real Madrid. What I say, I didn't have teachers. I have coaches. Then later on, when I was a coach, my inspiration was a Rigosaki. So Spain was improving in the sonal marking system. And then you have to coach them and you have to teach them.

So in the academy, they were. were like a sponge. They were learning everything. Then you go to professional. And then especially when you go to England. So if you want to talk about my experience in England as a teacher, coach, manager, at the beginning, the players, and you have some comments of Gerard.

At the beginning, it was complicated because they need to learn things that maybe nobody was telling them. So England was famous for the POMO, the POMO, the POMO, put the ball of the matchment opportunity. So long ball, second balls, and we were talking about tactics trigger when you have to press them. So take some time, but after you are getting better.

And don't forget, one thing that we were using in Spain all the time is giving them problems, they have to give you the solution. It's the way that they were learning. So at the beginning, it's more difficult, but after the knowledge is there forever. If you look at the education side of it, which we have done that, and that's interesting on the give them a problem they have to solve it, Guillem, where is, because you're very big,

on the three pillars here and and where one is Basque culture but also Barcelona influence in particular and Croif and the tactical revolution that followed through him where does LaMassia fit in all of this given given the numbers of

players who have been in that Spain squad in this period of Domest in 2010 eight players who came out of there were in that squad exactly the same as this year you again have to tell the story differently. It wasn't La Mascia that affected the national side. This system in which academics and

teachers teach and structure football and create a methodology, that happened early in the 21st century and Gines Menendet, especially somebody that we need to mention, who was 17 years in the Federation, mostly as director of football, creating coaches through his courses, choosing the coaches for the national side, including Luis de la Fuente, for instance, and then teaching other coaches like Pocetino or Caranca or Chavi or Chavi Alonso because he was also leading the learning through the Federation to get coaching baches. So this happened before La Macias. This happened before Pei Bordeola.

No, not before La Macias, but before La Macias had the influence that we see now in the national side. So what Gines did, in the early part of the 21st century, he's told me the message that he sent to you, Mark. Can I read it? Yeah, okay. I'll say. So he wanted to be part of this conversation, but he doesn't speak English.

But he wanted to say that Spain had good players at that time, but not good teams because there were rivalries between the top clubs, so the national sides were very competitive. So his idea was to make each national team a club of friends and to achieve that you needed national, team coaches rather than coaches who had nothing to do with that particular role.

So a particular type of coach. You can be a good coach, she says, and a bad national team coach. So when it came to putting the national teams together, the profile of the national team coach, which depended on the edge group, was the most important thing. And that's why you put coaches at

a particular age and don't move them, don't go with the team with the players further than the line. They stay there, they become a specialist on that age and what he did was create a database of more than 120 specific exercises for a particular play model based on a couple of systems. And that way, from a young age, the players were all working the same way.

Although some players dropped because they didn't have the level or failed to reach, you know, or they didn't have the personality. Basically the players went through the ranks until to the first team. So he put an example of what he did is put De La Fuente with the under 19s, but, and then moving to the under 21. as first team coach but he was an assistant coach of the other age groups on the 16s

and the 17th and the 18s and that way he knew all the players first hand and all that happened before 2008 and then of course when Barcelona comes in with that great generation they jump from a system that work and is similar

to the one of the Federation to a system that already was prepared for them which I see is something that would be interesting just to delve into with Georgi Gratikos, international director of academies at Barcelona between 2009 and 11

and 2016 and 20. Before we get into La Masa itself, Georgie, and thank you very much for being with us this Wednesday evening. Much appreciated. Could you see that when your young players went off to be part of these age groups at the national side,

that the club stuff was put to one side? Hello, good evening. First of all, for me, it's a big pleasure to be with all of you. For me, it's a honour. because all of you have big experience, and for me it's always pleasure to talk about football. About your question, I was also following your conversation.

I think it's very interesting because under my point of view, when we talk about a football manager or football coach, I see three different types of football coaches. One is a football coach or manager in the club, okay? Another one is a manager in the club, but in the formation. maybe under 19, under 17, under 15. And then is another type, in my opinion, as a national team coach. When we talk about a manager of a senior team, of adult team, of the main team,

of course, you have the big press with the results. But also you have time to work with the players, to work with the team, to work with idea and philosophy. when you work in the youth system, you have the same philosophy, you have also many time to work with these players and to be focused in what you want to teach them and how you want to be played, your team inside the field. But result is not the main objective.

Of course, result is very important always in the formation because result is inside the game, is inside football. But you are in the process to, to teach the players to be professional and to be able to play for the main team. And then on the other side, for me, is the national team coach. As you said, Hinescarajal, I think, and I have a big respect for him because he did a very big job in the Spanish Federation because I think one of the big success of this national team

is that De La Fuente knows all the players since younger ages. But you don't have time. to work this idea. Because you have competition, you have only two or three weeks maximum to prepare a big competition. And the most important is about the selection of the players. If you select, for example, many players from Barcelona,

it's easier to have one idea. But for me, it's not only focused in Barcelona. It's about the Spanish system. There is non-official agreement between the clubs that most of the teams most of the clubs must play in the proactive game. When I talk about proactive, I mean that most of the teams are focused with the ball.

So then when you take players from Barza, from Villarreal, from Aletiqq club, from Betis, so it's not difficult, it's not difficult to create the same idea. So for this, I think the success is not only about the national team. in the success is also in the formation in any youth system in the Spanish clubs. When you, at LaMasio, if you had a list of objectives, what would be the number one objective? The number one is to understand the tactical meaning of the technical action. What I mean is to create intelligent players.

When we talk about any youth player in Barcelona, in Real Madrid, in Real Society, in Beijing, in Villarreal, all are very good in technical aspects. Very good. The most important is to understand when the team needs to make one pass in one or two contacts or to driving and to create numeric superiority two against one, or when team needs pausa, or when teams need dribbling and shoot. So in this level, all players are very, very good in the technical. aspects, all. The most important is this player who always decide the best option inside the

field and make others better in the field. So the main objective is to prepare players to take decision, as said before Rafa, is not a direct education, is an open education when you create some scenarios, context and ecosystem where the player needs to decide and always, as you, as a coach also, you need, of course, to say this was best option than other. So next time, take the other option. But the most important is that they need to decide inside the game, inside the game. I think we agree. All of us, we agree in one thing that the clubs, they coach the player for 90%, 95% of the time. So that is the key part. Then talking about England, I remember, and I will tell you my experience,

because I was in Italy, England and Spain, and I know what the Italians say. So in England, you have, when I just arrived to England, you have the Reserve League that was not working. Then I was talking about the Under-21s, because in Spain we have the under-19s. And then you create the under-21s. I still know working the way that was organized.

In Spain, the reserve teams, they were playing in second division, in championship. So the players, they could compete against men, and they need to find solutions, is what I say all the time. Then also we were promoting players with quality like Barcelona is doing. So Real Madrid was doing the same, but it depends on how many senior players you have. You can promote more or less, no?

But then in Italy, for example, they don't trust the young players. They are worried because they want to win. And then at this level, youth level, you must win or you will be under pressure already in Spain, but even more in Italy or even more in England. So Spain has this ability to promote young players, to allow them players with quality, with technical ability and understanding of the game to promote these players. And the key factor for the Spanish national teams,

like Guillain was saying, is that Gines, they create a structure like Barcelona, I used to have the same, I will not say, the same system, the same model of play, the same idea. Because I think Johann Cree was playing 3-4-3, but Reihar was changing to 4-3-3. But the way that you want to play, I was talking with Pep Seguer,

that was technical director in Barcelona, and he was our technical director in Liverpool, when I went to Liverpool and I had control of the academy. And we were talking about the players, the way that we want to play. And if we produce a player that in this position, holding in field there, Buscettes, is the best, it would be fine.

If he goes to Rathind de Santander and he cannot perform, we don't care in the way of Barcelona, we're thinking. We want to produce players for our system. So Spain was creating a club with a lot of players coming for all their clubs and with the technical ability and giving them all of them the same model of play, the same system sometimes. So they knew exactly what they have to do.

When you put a lot of talented players all together, and I will go back to Torres. Fernando Torre was always telling me, oh, Luis Arragonez, he started. Because Luis Arragonez, that was a coach of counter-attack. It was a coach of counter-attack and pressing. he was playing Tiki-Taka football, I would say that, because everybody will understand that. He has very good players.

So he has talent coming from the club. So you have the players to create something special. And then the merit is that we will play as a team and we will play always the same way. It doesn't matter the coach. So, Jordi, what within Barcelona then drives that? because your point and Raffer's points are, I'm guessing, a lot of people hear that, I think, well, that's the ideal, of course.

You want to produce players who eventually can play for the first team. If they struggle at another team online, that's fair enough, because we're producing them for us. We want to turn them into the best footballers they can be. We want to make them problem solvers. And make them decision makers. And it sounds, I mean, a lot of it is common sense, but a lot of it sounds very,

The ideal. What I find interesting is, what happens if something goes wrong? And even in Barcelona's story of the last 20 years, things occasionally go wrong. So what is the underlying driving force that means people involved within Barcelona, from the top to the academy, to the under-a-hs to whatever, never waver from the number one objective because occasionally there may well be a dissenting voice, I'm guessing, if things aren't going well. I was listening you before I came online. There are things very interesting that you are saying. And for me, we need to highlight the Johan Kroib, okay, I think. But before Johan Kroiv,

and I'm sure that Rafa knows and remembers him, was Laureano Ruiz, for example. And Lauriano Ruiz was the first person in Barza system before Johan Kroix, who started the process with Rondos, for example. Okay? Yes. But Johan Kroi, for me, did a thing very difficult when we talk about Catalan mentality or in our club. It was very difficult to think that we can win many things.

So at that time when we won just one La Liga, every eight or nine or ten years, this was our usual life. But he came and he changed all the methodology. I remember Johann Kroev was very focused in the youth system. He was many times in academia. I remember one of his first decisions was at that moment, that Gordiola was juvenil, last year, juvenile. And he was very weak physically.

was thin and weak. And inside club, many people wanted him too long or even to finish contract. But Johan Kroev said, no, we do extra work in the gym, specific

training sessions, all this process because he saw it was a talented player. And for me, this was the big change because he created a new thing, a new methodology, but the most important is that he was winner. Because if you create something new and you

don't win in football, just, okay, you try, but you didn't win. And this is a factor in football that is very important. And I think that said Rafa, that I think is very important, Johan Kroiv played one three-four-three, okay? And if you ask him why only three defenders and his answer, and I want to show how his common sense or logical works. He says, we only play three because at that moment, most of the teams plays one four for two and only two forwards, and I just want one more defender. So it means that I can put one more defensive midfielder

and this role that Rafa said was very important in Barcelona because Luis Milla, Pep Guardiola, Sergio Busquettes, but Arteta, Cess Fabricas, sometimes played there. Chavi sometimes played there. Only Chavi woke up when Louis van Gogal came in Barser and put a little bit upper. Even Gerard López sometimes played at that position, but then in Valencia played upper as a second striker. So with this example, I want to try to show

that his common sense or his logic is logic but it's not easy to put in practice. Okay. And another thing that I think is very important what Rafa said is that it's a personal opinion. It's a personal opinion that for me system is not so important. The most important is the idea and the philosophy. So if you play one four, four, four, two, or one, four, two, three, one, four, three, it's more important the system and the idea than, sorry, the idea and the philosophy than the system. This is the Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman. With a subscription to the BBC website and app, you can now get early access to your favorite BBC podcasts. Listen to shows like, you're dead to me, in our time, good bad billionaire, and more.

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This is the Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. Ian Balaget and Rapha Benitez are still with us. says of Asper Le Quetta will join us shortly. Sticking true, Guillem, just going back to what we were talking about before the news, sticking true to that philosophy over many years through thick and thin is easier said than done in my experience of sport. Yeah, and there will be, as you said, times where things go wrong. Parley, this is a bit complicated, but Barcelona is two clubs in one.

They're always like one side and the other side of a thing completely different. But in any case, what the coaches tend to think is what Johan Kriv made them think, which is, number one, think differently. Number two, if we have the ball, the other team doesn't have it. But I know Jordi has been a little bit generous to Johan because he did not create a methodology. He created a way of thinking. The person that created the methodology, as in putting the exercises, setting it all up, was Bengal.

So if we talk about unsung heroes of the success of a Spanish football, he should be included at the level of many others, because he created, again, a Bible of what Johan Criff meant and what the 433 was about. Then coaches like Pep Seura, which is another guru of a Spanish football, that ended up being the director of the academy at Liverpool and the Rafa. then he developed this idea and took it abroad. But basically going back to why Barcelona continue succeeding

with more or less the same idea, is because even in the wrong times, there was something that could hang on to. I understand, Raff, the whole emotional side of Krofe and Barcelona, but Barcelona and Krofe are not the only club player to have special relationships. and you have managed, as you said, Spain, in Spain, in Italy and England. It is not far off unique for that link to stay as strong as it has.

Yeah, the experience that I have is that I was a player of Real Madrid Academy for 10 years. And then after I was a coach of Real Madrid Academy 10 years. Then after, obviously, with the first team. But this time, and I was... competing against Barcelona at this time when Johan Kri was there. So we're playing a lot of games against them. And then what the Jordi was saying is something that I said that was crucial. In integral methodology.

So the method that we were using in Spain, a lot of coaches, and then Cesar will agree with that, when he said, Wardiola was weak, then we have to work in the gym. He has to do extra job. the Portuguese tactical approach they don't use to do that we used to do that in Spain we used to work on the mentality

of the player the understanding of the game the physicality so the technique everything that is the key and we did it for years in all the academies so it's not just La Masia but they were successful or they are successful yes but the Real Madrid was winning Osana Valencia

Bilbao, Sevilla they had a lot of very good players, successful players, and when Jordi was saying, and Guillen was saying the same, Gines was using them as a team, but the players, they were training and they were coaches in their own teams. For these coaches that they were fitness coaches with experience in football, coaches that they were learning. So for me, the success is the whole thing together. We're going to talk about the Basque region. Net, Sais of Aspel Aquater is with us. evening, how are you?

Hi. Good to see you. Before I bring you in, Guillem, you just take me through the Basque region and a region here that has produced a crop of talented players that were crucial, particularly to the last World Cup triumph, there were what, one, two, three, four, five, six in that squad. Yeah, throughout the history of the national side, Basque coaches and players have been absolutely crucial. And I think to explain the Basque country football culture, you have to have to be.

to explain what's happening there. They're a bit different. And they represent a special reference, as I said, in the history of Spanish football. They relate to work ethic, daily effort, sense of belonging, coaches and people they feel part of a bigger thing, be it history, a family tree, a culture, a club. This is important. And what's important is the club and the history, not them.

They live in a community that appreciates collectiveness. So there are gastronomic clubs. They belong to a quadrilla, friends from a long time. It's a school. So it is easy to feel part of a community, a group, a team, a club, when they go out of their environment. They're very, very competitive, and the vast country is very, very sporting.

And there are all kinds of sports, from throwing tree trunks to Pelotabasca. And competitiveness is valued, but only if it's done with respect. So these are people, especially when they get in a job of authority, say, being a manager, that transmit authority, that same authority, through their knowledge, not through their charisma.

And many leave the past country early because there is not a lot of jobs in there. So that means that they are adaptable. They go to the rest of Spain abroad and adapt. And why they are wearing in England, I think Raffir has become that, parli is because of the weather. The weather's back there, the weather is back here,

so it's part of the adaptation, easy adaptation. It's been quite. glorious today, Kiyam. And there's a part of me that really wants to investigate the tree trunk throwing, if I'm honest with you.

Do you know he was a champion? He was a champion of that, Julian Lopetege. What, tree trunk throwing? You'll wind it, you'll wind it up. He was very, very good at it. And not that you could get a career out of it,

but you could get money out of it. Yeah, yeah. Very good. I mean, you had a spell at Ossasana, didn't you, Raffa, which is, I mean, everybody talks about Athletic Club and Real Sociedad, but Osasuna plays its part too.

Yeah, I was there, and then it was a time in second division with a special league, the league of 22, blah, complicated part. I would say, for example, at this time, what the Gilles was saying is right. So they have the mentality, team spirit. That is the reason why I say Spain is successful because we were working in everything, not just one part of the game, not just the technique.

So the Dutch teams, they are not winning. Why? Obviously, they have less people, but they are not winning even with the same. philosophy. Why are they not winning? Because they don't have the characteristic of the Spanish mentality and then you say the vast, they were together. But at this time when I went to Osasuna, they used to play man to man all around the pitch. They were not passing the boat. They were just man to man, aggressive, intensity and these kind of things. So I think that Spain has made an evolution. In 2008, could be when Spain has a lot of talented players and they

were successful. Luis Arawanese was trying to play more passing football later on. was the basketball, but especially all the academies and the national team, all the teams in the national team, they follow the same model of play. And then the vast players, because remember, Guillem, at the time with Javier Clemente and the national team,

Spain used to play more direct football. So they changed to passing football because they were successful with the national team because Barcelona was passing the ball. But the Real Madrid is Sevilla. Las Palmas, when you go to Canarias, come on, we have players in Canaria. as Pedri Silva, that they used to pass the boat.

So Spain has a, what they have created is a methodology that has been around all the academies, and the national team has continued this idea. That of the success of the national team. How do they balance the sort of balance between Basque and Spanish? Because there are many Basques that, you know, don't identify as Spanish. And yet Basque players have been crucial to the Spanish. team. Is that a delicate balancing act?

I think it is outside the teams and I know that you sometimes have to explain the lack of success of Spanish football until 2008 and many will just go back to this idea that Catalans and Basques don't want to be with a national

site. But when you are inside a team or inside that football world or you are a player, you want to succeed, you want to be with the best and I don't think there was that much of difference or divorce between the Catalans and the Basque and the Madrid, the people from Madrid,

the people of Serbia, once they got into the national side. It was used, again, as a myth to explain the lack of success. Now that we're winning, what's happened? We all love each other, but it was the same way than before, really, just as Jinesz Carbazardal is playing that message to you.

Basically, he wanted to create a group of friends that were together 15, 16, 17, and the best ones get into the first team. And friends don't look at each other's passport. do they? Did you find that within the Spain setup, that club rivalries, regional regional rivalries were put to one side because of what they'd implemented through the age groups?

Yeah, completely. And I think that feeling I had since I started age 15 in the youth teams, we were all coming from different cultures of playing football and, you know, to the senior team. you have, when you come to the national team, I think you put everything aside. And yes, you know, you play big games against friends. In the national team, you share a lot of time together. But then when you have the competitive league or cup game,

then you forget about that. And you are together in the national team fighting for the same target. So do you think you therefore feel it is important that that was put in from such an early age? from when you were there with under 15s. Yeah, it's very important. And I think that mix of cultures, of way of learning football,

brings a lot of different qualities to the team. And I think at the end, the team benefits from that. And normally, let's say, up north, we are more defenders. We are more, like, tough, less skillful. You know, the more in the south, you have this talented player,

they can triple, they can do different stuff. So all together is a great mix. So I mentioned earlier when we were talking about tree trunks. You grew up in Navarra, didn't you? So a region with heavy Spanish and Basque influences. If I ask you what are Basque influences, what does that mean to you? Well, I could say the discipline, the culture of working hard, of not giving up or being resilient, and not very flashy.

I would say normally people want to, this culture of fight or being tough, like a bit kind of English football, more, more duels, more physical, less technical, but also in terms of tactical approach, more compact, great knowledge of knowing where to go,

and with the ball, keep it simple and try to go forward as quick as possible. With Cessar, because about the rivalry, that I think again was clear, and Cessar has been also explaining, I think it was more about some coaches and some directors that they try to create this division, and at the end of the day, the players inside,

they feel that we are teammates, that's it. But some coaches and some directors, they were trying to create that, and hopefully they will not do it. in a future, but it was like that. Does Mikhail Marino, Guillem, symbolize that Basque spirit? Although he's from Navarra, isn't he?

So, which is... And came through Osseruna? Yeah, but so... But actually, yes, he's from... Yes, Newcastle. But, you know, it's complicated. Navarra, people think

something that they Basque, those things that they're from Navarra, different things, but the culture is quite similar, really. And yes, he's one of the many that symbolized that. Luis de la Fuente, spent a lot of time in Bilbao as well with the athletic club

and understands perfectly well what the bus can add and you know Chavez Alonso, Michael Arteta you go to managers then Unaemeri, Yuleen Lopetegi Juan Malillo that was with Pep Wardiola there's so many that

they represent all these things that we're talking about the work ethic, the thinking like one the feeling like they are a cog within a big machine all those things So it's very much about a vast thing. Do you see common sense more than anything else? Do you see just keeping it simple?

Yeah, and I think it's very important. You know, sometimes we want to complicate a lot of football. And, you know, and sometimes it's more simple than that. You know, it's just trying to play with the players you have and then get the maximum. I think, you know, as a coach, you know, you have the players, especially in a national team. You can pick your players and then you can get,

You have to try to get the maximum in a tournament that is quick, that goes fast, that there will be some tough moments, and you have to go through them. Do the Spanish FAA, or Spanish Federation, Guillem, prefer understated? He has, they tried all kinds. Luis Enrique is completely the opposite, obviously, but sometimes it's forgetting where you come from and what has given you success. Perhaps the pressure can actually blare your judgment, right? Right now, we've got a coach that has gone through the ranks. makes a little sense. But I Nyaki Saeth,

who was the guy that chose Gines Menendez Menendez, all those years back, became the national coach and failed. So success is no guaranteed. But what seems very clear now, obviously with the renewal

of the contract of Luis de la Fuente, is that there is a way of doing that it feels like is solid, is consistent, and can last a long time. And that part of that is to have a manager

that everybody's happy with. And it doesn't create controversies. I think when you win as he won already the Nations League, he had that tough tough moment

in the first few games and then when he won the Nation League lost against Scotland. Yeah, and then he because he made like a lot of subs and then the team lost

so that was a tough moment and then he built from there they won the Nations League, they won the Euros and I think that gives you confidence, that gives you power and it's like a positive dynamic and then many things that he was making in the World Cup maybe in another situation

you know it was different so that confidence relies the pressure is it's a completely opposite to other countries when you know like England you know after such a long time without winning then when the big moment arrives I think you know to control that pressure and that panic is it's not easy you need you need support as a coach as a manager you need support from the people at the top. So when you have a country behind, when you have a massive group of fans behind in any team, so if you don't have this support,

then everybody will have a fun opinion. So as Cesar is saying, if you talk about the names, Guillem, you say Nyaki, Zayvades, Luis Arragone, they are big names. So Spain, like England, like Italy, they look for big names because nobody will question that. But if you are lucky enough to have someone

it's not a big name and it's very successful to give him confidence and nobody will argue with that. So I think Spain has found a position, a situation that everybody is comfortable with the style of football, with the coach and everybody is very supportive and they will upset that you lose some games because they know that is part of the process in this case.

Just before, because Raffa and Cesar are going to leave us shortly, and I'm not trying to make you say something that might make you look, stupid in two years time if Spain failed to qualify for the euros or something. But when you look at the system, both of you, and you look at the sustained success over the last nearly 20 years now, obviously not winning everything, but it's still sustained success. Do you believe the setup will allow this to continue for many more years, even though sport is cyclical? My experience,

because I have been in the board meetings, the UFIs, the top size, apart from Italy, there has been something special, they always qualified. They will always qualify. Why? Because the way that the system is done, you play in a group of four or five, and you have two or three teams that they are worse than you. That's it. Even in your worst day, still you will win. So to qualify

will be easy. To win, then is when you have to play against the top side. Spain can do it. Yes, because they can qualify. This year, Spain was going with players that they were injured. and people were questioning, oh, these players are injured, but you knew that you have three weeks to give them time to recover because you will play games that you will win easily. So I think that the system, the way that is organized,

the teams, the top side, they will qualify. Then who will win? Obviously, it depends on a good generation. If Spain has a good generation of players, they will stay there. If the other countries, they have a good group of players, maybe they can compete. But still, I think that Spain has young players with talent and Thessar is one of the young player with talent.

I think you need to recycle and you will have to keep changing the way you play. Football evolves very quick. So I could say the setup is ready. We have been successful in the Jiao teams winning a lot of trophies. So those players, you get ready for the competition at the biggest stage. And then you have to replicate it at the highest level. So I say the setup is ready for it, but you will need to recycle. and to evolve and to offer different things

because although for me in Spain has been the best team in the World Cup, they were the best team in the Euros, but they have played a bit of different football for moments and they had adapted to the situation very well. So that's a very important aspect of a team, of a group, to adapt and to deliver in different conditions. Did you feel, and you will know all about this from your time, very quickly before I let you go.

Do you feel Brazil in the 70s had this or Germany in the 90s, certainly as far as an English perspective is concerned, do you feel like you had a psychological advantage over most teams? That, hey, we're Spain, we've got one up on you before we've even started. Yeah, I believe so, yeah. I believe Spain, you know,

I remember very well when I was starting in the youth teams and we used to play 4-2-3-1. And Hines, back in the day, you know, I was listening to you guys speaking about him. He was always saying him and the coach and Sinyaki that we had an advantage because we were playing with an extra line in the lineup because normally the teams, they played 4-3-3-3. So we were playing like 4-2-3-1. And, you know, that was giving us like a strength that back in the day,

we didn't know much about the system. And we were just building our way. up and to play in the same way as in the senior level. Sayza, Rapha, thank you very much for being with us this evening, Raffa Benitez. Seza Asperler-Quest with us. Just a quick one, Guillem. For all the celebration, for all the talk of the World Cup wins and Euro wins, there is a sense among certain fan bases that, and it goes back to the regional thing,

that not everybody is together here. The Federation may believe that they are and maybe the players may believe that they are, but maybe the fans feel differently? Yeah, they do. I mean, there is a reason why Aletic Club decided fans decided to boo the Aletic Club players that won the World Cup when they celebrated in the first game at home.

Or why Barcelona, I would say, taking advantage or using an excuse of what had happened a few days previously when a Barcelona fan with a Catalan flag was hit by police in a previous. game, that was what Barcelona used so not to celebrate the World Cup with the players at the Camino. So that is

on the back of the clubs knowing the fan base. The fan base, a lot of it, Barcelona fans, Aletri Club fans, they just don't like Spain, which is fine. Spain is a nation of nations. So you've got different

ways of relating to your own nation. Sometimes it's looking at an enemy, other times just appreciating your your nation next door. And in this case, football is very tribal quite clearly. Some Basques and some Catalans don't want the success of Spain.

Guillaume, thank you for all your work on this. Fascinating stuff. See you soon. Guillermo. We're seeing. Thank you very much to Guillem. And the next episode of the Football Daily, oh dear, it's the commentator's view. With Five Live Sport

and BBC sounds. Hit all the live, exciting action from the WSL. And it's bigger and better than ever before. Get all the latest news and interviews from the biggest stars of the women's game. Alexa Vitesse, welcome to the women's football week. I love competition, I love football, I love training, I love to improve.

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