Football Daily - Thomas Frank on international management, England & hydration breaks

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Thomas Frank joins Breakfast in America to talk World Cup egos, the joy of Lionel Messi, Harry Kane’s mentality, building international squads and much more.Steve Crossman is alongside former Scotland striker Kris Boyd and The Athletic’s Adam Crafton in Bubby Diner’s in Manhattan. Listen to our live show in New York and Boston on BBC Sounds every weekday between 1pm and 3pm.Timecodes 00:45 Thomas Frank’s other big sporting event of the summer 02:15 How do you manage megastars? 04:30 Are top players in their best shape for the World Cup? 06:00 The ‘no bad eggs’ policy 10:00 What makes a good international squad and are England’s players scared of Thomas Tuchel? 11:30 What do England need to improve after the opening game victory? 14:00 Does Harry Kane do too much? 16:45 How would Thomas deal with the hydration breaks? 22:00 Does Thomas want to go into international management? 24:20 Has international management got more attractive?

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at the People World Cup 2026 with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello there, welcome to the Football Daily podcast coming to you today from Bubby's Diner in downtown New York City. We've got a fascinating chat with the former Brentford and Spurs manager Thomas Frank on the way from our daily program, which is Breakfast in America, which is live on 5 Live and BBC Sounds every weekday from 1 until 3pm. Former Scotland striker Chris Boyd and the athletics Adam Crafton were also with us. Delighted to say that we've got the former Brentford and Spurs manager Thomas Frank with us. Now Thomas, I know you're a manager and perhaps we will get into this, who takes on a lot from other sports, but I hear the World Cup won't be the only big tournament.

You'll be taking in this summer. You're going to be at the Tour de France as well. Yeah, that's a little different. I always found that very interesting since, you know, just following while I was growing up and now I had the opportunity to come down and watch it up closely, so I'm going forward to that. Are you studying as well? Is there anything from a coaching perspective that you'll be thinking about, even in an individual sport or just for fun? No, you know, unfortunately the way my brain works,

it will always study a tiny bit in terms of see if there is anything that could give me an edge, either, you know, as a leader or the structure or how you build a team because it's individual sport, but still as a team. What about at this World Cup then? What are you most looking forward to kind of getting into and experiencing? I think first and foremost, I think the first round has been in the group stages has been amazing in many aspects. I think we've already got some fantastic stories. The top dogs, the big players, they have definitely entered the tournament.

So really, really happy with that in every aspect. I must say, I love that Messi's go ahead trick in the first game. I think that's incredible. So it's not, you know, with a fantastic finish outside the box and then, you know, a tapping over it, you know, the second goal. And the third goal is just a signature of finish.

Okay, I think that's a really interesting launching pad for us then for this hour. Is the idea, Thomas, of how as a coach, you find a way to get the best out of a megastar, an individual megastar, without impacting the team environment? Because hasn't it been interesting to see Messi absolutely fly into the tournament

Erling Harland, Harry Kane, less so Cristiano Ronaldo. So, you know, and Mbapé as well, is brilliant. John McGinn, of course, Chris. I thought he was good, by the way, John McGinn. Very important player. Just been saying, everybody needs a John McGinn, Thomas, don't they?

I agree. By the way, I think John McIn is a fantastic player. I think he's been really, really good for Villa over many seasons. And it seems like, can you get something better? But every single time he's out of your team, you miss it. I think that's a good, healthy sign.

So let's talk about the megastars then, including John McGinn, Chris. I'm not forgetting John McGinn. How do you do that then? Because obviously the team is everything and yet you want your individual stars to shine. Yeah, I think it's... I think, of course, it's a challenge

because I think you always want your team to play in a specific way. But you also know that some of the megastars and I think that's the big thing. When they add value to the team in terms of goals or the decisive actions on the pitch, they're crucial to, to be there. And by the way, I haven't, I don't think there's one megastard that don't want to win.

So they all know that they need to do a certain amount of work. And actually, if you've looked at Messi in the first game, he was, he was pressing and running like I haven't seen him for a while. I think Harry Kane, it's clearly compared to the years, two years ago, that he's fit and he's coming into a, in a fantastic place. And I think that's very, very important to be, to be aware of that, if you're not fit and you're struggling with injury, it's difficult to perform. So he is in a fantastic place. Also the way he pressed and the way he was all over the pitch, I think is interesting as well. So I think it's about make sure you have to structure right offensively and defensively for the team.

And then no, and everyone knows if you get the top players to shine, then there's a bigger chance for the team to our success. Hi, Thomas, it's Adam here. I was really struck, as you just said there, about how lean Harry Kane looked yesterday. I mean, particularly if I think back to some of those other tournaments over the last few years, He's never been overweight or anything like that, but just a bit heavier. And I'm just curious from a coach's point of view at the end of a long season. What kind of physical shape that these top players now actually tend to be in?

Or do they almost need almost like a mini preseason before the tournament during these training camps before an international tournament? Because a lot of these big players have played so many games. But on the basis of this first round of games, they look so fit. I think it's always individual based. So, for example, a player like at Declan Rice is a physical monster. It seems like he can just keep going. He's in the best, his best age.

You know, he is playing with high intensity through almost 60 games and he seems to be robust. That's one thing. But he, even him, need to get a little downtime to refresh to be ready to go again over the next six, seven weeks, hopefully eight games. for England and then there's a hurricane that's a little bit older still a very good how can you say physical player but not not the same as Declan Rice but you can see now he's coming in here and he's completely top fit and every single time at a player's top fit is just easier to perform in that sense so some players depending on where they are in the end of the season need to like a

mini pre-season other players we need to get them down and then get them get and ready to go again. And then I think there would be minimal training throughout the season, throughout the tournament. I know you're very much into what I'm going to call the All Black's philosophy of no bad eggs at this time on Five Live. It might have a slightly different.

You might have a slightly different name. Yeah, you need to say the right phrase. Can I say that on Five Live or not? No. No. I was just, you know, after 10 years in England, I'm being too polite. So, okay, fan of.

After the watershed maybe. I mean, I think No Bad Eggs does sum it up. But I think it sort of leans into the discussion as well, Thomas, around the way that, like if you were managing internationally, and I'm really interested to know in general if it's something that potentially appeals to you in the round anyway, but the way that you put a squad together and the way that Englanders have put this squad together,

there's clearly a lot of thought that's going into personality and international management. Yeah, no doubt. I think no matter it's England or France or Denmark, I know Denmark is not there, but of course I follow them closely as well. No matter what nation it is, the squad, the way you select the squad, I think, is so crucial if you want success in the tournament. Because if you have, we all know, for all of us, it's the ego that get in the way.

But if you have too many egos in a squad and they don't understand their role, you know, maybe they say they understand, but they don't actually. understand with their behaviors and six, seven weeks is a long time in a camp. You get absolutely, you get zero minutes and you need to train hard when all the other guys are relaxing and you're doing the same small-sided games and passing drills and, you know, no matter how good the coach are to be creative, it's a lot of the same. So I think if you look at England, I think Thomas Tugel have made some brave choices. I don't know. enough of the England personalities that's been left out or not, so I don't want to go into that

debate, some maybe know more about that. But I think there is something in unique players in their best position. And I think it's a privilege that England have six number tens that are, you know, international high level, and he left three of them out. Because I think actually that is, that is clever, because you can only, you can only use three. Now we've got three, three different profiles in Rogers, Bellingham and Essay and of course Palmer and Foden and Gives Wright

other three years he left out. So I think that's important. Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point because you speak especially Foden and Palmer, they would expect to play. And if they're not playing, you know, you're not saying that they're bad eggs but they're that used to playing and they'll come to this England squad, I'm playing, I want to be playing.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But when you've got other players ahead of you and as Thomas says there, your training for the sake of training a lot of the times as well, trying to keep top up your fitness because you're not getting the minutes and the match. It can be difficult for these guys. And that's where I think you've got to say that Thomas Tunco has been really, really brave because to leave them out, yes, there would be some questions asked.

If England go on and win it, then he's done the right thing. I think round the corner of if England had to get knocked out, there will be questions asked of why you didn't take them because these are the guys that can make a difference. but he's selected a squad that he feels of a V can help England get to this stage where they can go and win the World Cup because they've been so close

recent years but it's making that final step to get there and he's went about it in a different way. I think when you look at the England squad as well there seems to be a real team spirit this time. Maybe before there was

every player's got a football has got an ego. Maybe there was, the egos were there and they didn't gel together as well as they should have as a team. But looking at it now, I think it's totally different. I think there's a feel-good factor in this team. And there's also, Thomas,

I don't know what you think of it, but I think the players are fearful of Thomas, and I think that has to be a good thing. Because he's shown, it doesn't matter who you are. If you are not performing, you'll be left out. Yeah, I think a couple of things, I think one thing is, it's not always the 23,

or 23, 26, best players that you make the best squad. Sometimes it's to have the right types that make the best squad. And I agree there is a, it seems like the cohesion in the squad is very good. I also like to say, I think that South Cape did a very good job with the last three tournaments. So we have an England team that now that the whole nation think maybe can go the last step because they've been so close twice. And the last World Cup they lost on quarterfinals in an even game to France. So there is a foundation that hopefully is sharpened.

but also some younger players coming in with some freshness and, you know, in a way, no fear like Anderson in the midfield. I think he's done a fantastic job. O'Reilly left back as well. So I think that gave a little bit of freshness, Gordon bigger role as well. So I think that. And then, of course, came, as we just talked about before, in his best shape. And right now he's playing number six, number 10 and number nine.

So playing number six as Piero. So he's a quarterback as Pielo, you know, playing as a six. 10 he's defining, I'll not say another pair, that's Kane, and then himself as a nine. That's a pretty good combination. Thomas, I'm interested for you as a coach, if you were watching that game yesterday, preparing possibly to play England in the next game or the latter stages. What were the things you saw where you thought we might be able to get at them in this respect, or we might be able to take advantage of this or that?

What were the things that England can still clean up? I think first, I think it's extremely impositive. They scored four goals. I think that's the big thing. And they have threat from different players. So Raffold is coming in. Saka is coming in. Both them could start depending on the game.

So now they have fresh players coming off the pitch on the bench to go on the pitch. And I think another one, they were very, very good on set pieces. So especially attacking, creating a lot of damage against Croatia. Of course, you can say the two goals they conceded, you need to look a little bit into that. I actually had the feeling that they were in control England, a little bit out of nothing. Creature, they just scored two coats, one almost better than the other.

So I don't think they were bad defensively, I must say, in that sense. And then you can say when they got three two up and they should have been four two up. In 75, there was a spell of 10 minutes, which is natural, which is also the momentum of the game, where they drop back a bit and you can see there was a little bit, they're not completely in control.

And then Tushal, a quick reaction, Belling him out, James in midfield, Jet Spence right back, and then it was like taking out. So you can see in the first half, they struggle a little bit in the buildup, but that's natural. If the team comes, you need to find the opening there fresh. There was a few times where the creature won the ball

and could go the other way, but I think actually they changed it fine from the game. I was watching the coverage on Fox last night here in America and Zlatan Ibrahimovych said after the game that the moment he most admired about Harry Kane in the game was the block that he made right at the end of the match, you know, throwing himself in the way of that ball. And it kind of links into what you were saying, Thomas,

about Harry Kane effectively being, we always talk about him as like, oh, he's a nine and a half, but like you were saying, he was an eight or six, a five. At times he was probably a one as well. I'm really interested. manager, because we've seen that a few times over the years with England players. Like I think about when David Beckham basically just dragged England over the line in a qualifier against Greece when he scored the free kick at the end.

As a manager, when you're watching one of your players, do everything. Is there any part of you that thinks, well, I might just need to ask him not to do everything all the time because the danger is that he might do too much? Yeah, I understand what you say. I think every fan, every manager, everyone involved in football, when you see a player and you see this star player, in this case Harry Kane, you know, doing a block close to goal, I think everyone will just, you know, it's fantastic.

You just see, okay, that is the willingness and determination to win, you know, everything on the line you want to win. And I think you saw the same a little bit from Bellingham. It was also a situation where a creature was almost playing through and Bellingham as a number 10 was all the way down. I think I can't remember the great-cham player he was doing James and if Bellingham was not there, that could be a massive chance. So I think those two for the number nine, number 10,

nine and ten, I think it's crucial. I think there's the one thing where they can do too much is if Kane or Bellingham are all the way down as a six or liftback in the buildup, then sometimes we lack them in the other end where they should do the job and score the goals. but I think they found a good balance last night. I think that's the key thing though, Tom, Thomas, when you take...

Tom. Tom. Thomas. That's no problem. Tommy. I think that's the key thing, though. Big players, intelligent players will drift into areas and try and create space for themselves and make things happen. You've then got to go and fill that space that they have vacated.

And last night, when Harry came was dropping down, there was always some they were running ahead of the ball. When he dropped in it away, there was people coming in there, there was players coming in the pitch as well. maybe the superstars get criticized why's he going there, why's he? But the other ones around them have to adapt and go and fill these areas. And then all of a sudden you've got a team that clicks together because Harry Kane's dropping into these areas

to drag centrebacks with him. He's hoping that they're going to come in there and then the likes of Belling can get forward. It was Maddie Wacky last night. Can't sack it off the wide ears. Go through the middle. Those runs that we've seen with the Barcelona team back in the day.

So top players make themselves virtually impossible to be marked. They'll drift into areas, but the key thing for me is after that, their teammates have to identify the space and go and exploit that. I think that's an extremely good point. But also, Kane do a little bit the same, like in Bayern Munich, where he drops all the way down. And I think they had like a box in the middle,

so it was like Anderson, Rice, Kane and Bellingham, so they could rotate almost like they wanted, but Anderson was always down there, and then Kane dropped down. But I think the big thing is they had deep runners in Gordon and Marueke, so they could play the balls in behind and be a threat there. Because we don't have a threat, it's easy to lock them down because Croatia did go man-man most of the time.

Here's one for you, Thomas. How would you as a coach deal with what I can only think to describe of the quarterization of this World Cup? Because obviously here in America, every time we have the inverted commas hydration breaks, we just get loads of adverts, and it's obviously different in the UK and the BBC and ITV are approaching it in different ways.

as they would do. But as a manager, how would you approach that? I think personally, as a football manager or a football person, you know, I think we shouldn't have the hydration break. But the way I think I'm pragmatic, okay, we got it, now we need to get the most out of it. So three minutes, I will definitely, and it seems like most of the team has done that,

organize it and structure it. So probably the first minute, you will get the players to get the water, hydration, and all the different things they take. And then you most likely have a minute where you can come with your tactical input. And you always prepare a bit for that, and things can change quickly.

So that can be for the whole team and can also be a little bit of motivational, hey, now we go again, keep the pressure, keep the intensity. And then the last minute, the players prepare themselves. You can hand one-to-one with the players. So that's how I will structure, of course,

get the tactical ports out. To be honest, I don't mind it. You know, because I think you've got to look after a player welfare. We've heard that for a long, long time now as well. And when the heat is at the level it is over here, we've seen it the last day of the Premier League season as well. I mean, it's very difficult for us to ask players to go at that level for 90 minutes, 95, 96, 97 minutes.

You know, so again, Thomas, when you look at managers, are always looking for little breaks to get, you know, information on their team. This one's being created for them. has given them another opportunity to go and work their magic. Yeah, I agree. That's the thing. So now is there, then I definitely would use it. And it's also the time where you can, it's the same, you're on top in the first half,

and then you go in, and then the opponent coach change, and you go out, and everything you're set in there has changed. And it's difficult to get the information onto the pitch. So now you have two more halves or quarters, what I would call it, three breaks, where you can get your information on the... on board and you can change things. Plus it also breaks the rhythm. So it just gave another dimension to it

definitely. Chris, do players want instructions at that point in the game or do they actually just want to be left alone with the plan? Obviously unless you're losing 3-0 after 22 minutes. I think Thomas will probably agree on me with this one. I think players nowadays managers will give them

their information. Maybe in the past players would take responsibility upon themselves when they go on a football pitch. They will solve it. That's when you're asking for leaders and your captains to make decisions and help players on the pitch. Whereas now, I think a lot of players look to the manager because

they can then blame him. They can then turn around and say, oh it's the manager's fault. He didn't tell me to do this. He told me to do that. Whereas when you go on that pitch, you've got to take it upon yourself. And for me, I think it's something all I hear is, oh, we don't have enough leaders and there's a lack of leaders in teams.

That's what a leader is. When there's crucial moments, whether it's a corner kick, go and get tight to your man, whether it's organization, whether your teammate maybe is out of position, you go and fill in, somebody talking. Whereas now, I think a lot of players look to the managers, if they've not told them before, if it's a corner kick or a free kick, oh, you didn't tell me to pick him up, they can then blame the manager. Sometimes players need to take responsibility themselves. Yeah, definitely. I think the best teams, that's where there is many players taking responsibility on the pitch. Of course, they follow the game plan, but I always,

I like to say, when the game is on, something happened and changed on pitch so they need to take football decisions so they need to take their own decision in there where they where they react to the action or the things that's happening on the pitch I think that's that's that's very very important but also agree that we lack leaders not enough leaders but that's also why I actually think England have a good chance to go to progress very far and hopefully win it in the end I think there's I think there's quite a few leaders in the team that can

that can take decisions and drive the team on. All right, more to come from Thomas Frank. After the break. He's widely recognized as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballandour Award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status.

Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's a good bad billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. I'm Steve Bratnell. Host of Games Gone, the Steve Bratnell podcast. What's my favourite World Cup moment as a fan? I have to say, Michael Owen, skinning the whole of the Argentina defence,

and cracking it in top corner. For the very short space of time, I believe. My favourite World Cup player in history, it won't be popular, but I'm going to say Diego Maradonna. All right. He gambled it, but the guy was a complete genius. The People World Cup 2026. Listen on BBC Sounds.

The football day at the People World Cup 2026. Steve Crosman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Chris Boyd, Adam Crafton and Thomas Frank all with us. Thomas, this is the question I've been looking forward to actually more than any other. Can't wait. I've been speaking over the last few days to lots of people who have worked with you about international management is it something that appeals to you and if so would it

appeal for any nation or just one nation I think it could be appealing to me definitely one day when you know you never know with timing and everything I think my my first priority will you know take a club again at one point but I always loved the Euros and the World Cup and of course, you know, I'm from Denmark and so that will probably be the top priority to be the

head coach of Denmark if it should be international national teams but I'll be open. I'm an open guy, so let's see what will happen. What appeals to you about it, what aspect of international management one day, as you say,

do you feel you would enjoy the most? People always talk about your feelings on personal relationships whenever I ask people about you as a manager. Yeah, of course, I think if you're in a club, it's easier to get that personal relationship because it's every day throughout a year intense in every aspect. But on the flip side, with the national team, you most likely go out to a club visits. You will maybe go out for lunch with the player. You'll maybe go home to visit them in their house. So in a way, you you will in a way maybe get even closer to them.

And when you are together for four, five, six weeks, that's extremely intense because you live together for six weeks. And I tried a little bit years, years ago as on the 17 national team coach for Denmark. And we went actually to the World Cup in Mexico for four weeks. So I think a lot of that will, you know, interest me. And then of course, if you qualify, you need to qualify for euros and for the World Cup. that's what you want. And when you see the teams now and the goals and the fans,

what it means to every country, that's unique. I don't think you can describe that feeling of how proud the nation is when you represent the nation in a tournament. Thomas, what do you think's changed for managers? Because it used to be, if you looked at international managers, they were maybe coming towards the end of the career and they thought, right, I'm going to go and manage the country. Whereas now there does seem to be a lot of younger managers

who have done really well at club level are now stepping into international jobs as well. It's a very good question. I don't know exactly. I think maybe a combination of some of the very good young managers. Maybe they... The contract. Say, say again?

The contract. How much to contract it? Maybe. Maybe that. But I think it's sometimes depending if a club job is so demanding and so intent. The national team is different. It's everything when you're together. And it's even more, and you can see in England how much pressure and focus there is on England.

And it's the same in Denmark and I think the same in Sweden. I think the same in Croatia. So in those 10 days they're together, those six weeks, it's very, very intense. But then there's more, how can you say, downtime or more flexible time. I mean to see games and all that. So I think it's a combination. I think what you say about contract, it's probably true in the sense that, you know, the US hired Pocetino.

They kind of got together a bunch of billionaires to contribute to the salary as well. they kind of, they had to raise money that way. Not that he's being paid billions, but they did have to sort of get people together to donate towards that. And then I think it's also interesting kind of depending on the stage of a coach's career because someone like Graham Potter maybe had difficult experiences, last couple of jobs, but going into Sweden, it's a very different environment, a different opportunity.

He's obviously got a good relationship with Sweden going back to club football as well. Then someone like Ancelotti right at the other end of his career, I think Brazil we're looking for that kind of a bit like England, that sprinkle of maybe star quality, who is very used to dealing with some of these club-level superstars to get over the line. And it gives someone like Ancelotti too called Pocetino, just a slightly different pace of life.

But then the most intense, I mean, the pressure of this five or six weeks, it is unparalleled, really, even to the highest levels of club football. I think also to add to that as well, when you look at managers and Thomas U.S. have loads of coaches. There's a lot more trust in the coaches nowadays to go and do the, the work on the grass and you hear a lot of international managers say oh I miss the grass and but there is a lot of coaches out there that do the work when it's at club level anyway so that there is

a manager is not 24-7 with other things but on the grass it's maybe not as much as what it was in the past because there's so many coaches it's all split up into different compartments individualized on the on the club scene now as well so maybe that's why we're seeing a transition to international management as well because there is similarities there is similarities there is similarities Definitely. And as we say, I think those 10 days, if it's a qualifying period or the five, six, seven weeks it is, that's crazy intense. But in those, I think actually I agree that you will still have a big coaching staff that will do something on the grass with the national teams. But on the flip side of us myself, oh, I think I will, when I haven't been on the grass for that, I'll probably do a bit more myself on a personal note there in that aspect. I think you just mentioned that, but Ancelotchi, probably in the end of his career, we never know.

But I think Tugl and Pocciino, I think they will come back into club management again. I think they got two unique opportunities in different ways that they couldn't turn down. And Tugl, you know, liked it so much that he extended his contract. Porticino, let's see what will happen. It can also be a fantastic platform to show off two club teams. You know, if you're trying to get yourself back on that market, Any clubs that watched the US team last Friday night would have been looking at Pochitino and thought,

he's been a bit quiet for a couple of years, but he's still got it. And the same way as that Tuchel now, if he was to go semi-finals, finals with England, he'd be very in demand when that next cycle, I guess, of availability comes open for coaches in October, November, when the first changes of the season come around. So they put themselves front of mind.

So although international coaching can be long periods of quietness, the world watches. when it's the World Cup. I mean, you know, the numbers here are off the scale. Yeah. And just to finish with you then, Thomas, and it's been brilliant to have you with us. Just what you were talking about,

about the personal relationships and the time when if you're in international manager, you're kind of maybe going around people's houses and having those sit downs. How much do you enjoy that aspect of it? When you're talking to a player, maybe in their living room, more than in an office somewhere.

Yeah, now I haven't done it as much because I haven't been an international manager or national team manager, but I would say the one-to-one because I've done that. Of course, I had lunches with players before or went for a long walk where we need to talk about life and everything. I enjoy personal because I think I really like to know more about the individual I'm working closely with. And I think it gives me a better opportunity to make sure we maximize

because it's all about that, maximize that player's potential and performance. So that I definitely enjoy. Thomas, been absolutely brilliant to have you with us. Thank you very much. And thank you for allowing Chris to call you Tommy Frank. You're more than welcome, Chris. Topman. Big thank you to Thomas Frank for joining us on the Football Daily.

Next up on the feed, Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith from Los Angeles. There's this noise that you make. You don't decide to make it. It just comes out. I don't know what that's. neither. But everyone makes it at the same time. It makes you feel. I don't know how to say it. We know that feeling. The FIFA World Cup 2026. On 5 live in BBC Sounds. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballandour Award five times. He's the all-time

leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg billionaire, index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.