Football Daily - Tuchel & Kane on England v Spain

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

John Murray and Ian Dennis are at the Tottenham Hotspur Training Ground ahead of England's opening Nations League tie against Spain on Saturday night. They discuss whether Trent Alexander-Arnold might start on Saturday night, then John catches up with England head coach, Thomas Tuchel, who looks ahead to the match against Spain, and discusses his squad selection. Then, Ian speaks to England captain Harry Kane, who looks ahead to the upcoming Ballon d'Or ceremony, and reflects on learnings from this summer's World Cup.Timecodes: 06:00 Thomas Tuchel Interview 14:00 Harry Kane Interview

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret, of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Seward.

secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Football Daily podcast with John Murray and Ian Dennis. Hello, I'm John Murray and this is a five-life football daily to look ahead to, I think by common agreement, the most attractive match of this international window. England, World Cup semi-finals this summer against the new champions, Spain at Wembley Stadium, 69 days on from us witnessing Rodry lifting the trophy in New Jersey. And I say we, because Ian Dennis is here alongside me in the sunshine here at Tottenham's

Training Ground on this podcast. We'll also hear from Thomas Tuchel and Harry Kane, manager and captain. Five Live will be the place to listen to the match commentary with us from 745 Saturday night with our England regulars Paul Robinson and Matthew Upsen as part of the commentary team. and also look out on BBC Sounds for a special Football Daily reacting to today's Manchester City news. But Ian, this is the point, I think, where England move on from the recriminations of that much-talked about last half-hour or so of the semi-final in Atlanta when England's hopes of winning the World Cup ended. Yeah, and I thought it was interesting that the FA put the England captain Harry Kane up today with that in mind. because only a couple of days ago, he'd spoken to the written press.

And the fact that he was then speaking once more on the eve of this game, I thought that that was the FAA's way of saying, okay, he's done his reflections, and particularly that half an hour against Argentina that we've all been referring to, whereas this is now very much looking to the future. He echoed very similar to what Thomas Tuchel has said, that this isn't a new beginning, the building on the foundations, but looking then ahead to the Nations League campaign.

And as you say, what a game to focus on that against Spain who were undefeated in 38 matches. So it's going to be a real test for England. Only defeat in that time penalty shootouts in the last final of this competition against Portugal. Ian, there's been a lot of talk, hasn't there, this week, about the five withdrawals from the squad, including Cole Palmer. Obviously, Thomas Tuchel talking about that publicly today for the first time. He said that they trust the players and you have to believe the fact that they've all withdrawn from injury.

He said that those players know that if they miss an international window, then the pressure is on to get back into the squad, although the door's always open. He said there's no mistrust or threat of consequences. And he said that in his experience, you know, the opposite is true. It's not that there are players who don't want to be here. he says every England qualified player wants to be here and on Cole Palmer just for the record he has said Cole Palmer is currently playing with discomfort and pain in his groin and he said

his understanding is that Cole Palmer cannot perform at the highest level he said they are not managing a load and that is the situation with Cole Palmer according to Thomas Tuchel well I mean you you've spoke to Thomas Tuchel and you were in his press conference whilst I was with with Harry Kane. And I think sometimes you can read the headline where Tuchel had said he misses too many tournaments

and you're thinking, oh, blind me. But then there was context to that, wasn't there? Because of his, he's actually saying it is genuine. It's not, he's not missing tournaments because of his lack of commitment to England. There is a genuine reason as to why Cole Palmer is not here. Correct. Also, Trent Alexander Arnold,

with those withdrawals, Livermento, we know the other right backs who are not part of this squad. We will hear from Thomas Tuchel on this in a moment, but I think it's a fascinating point about whether Trent Alexander Arnold will start this match. Well, when we did the commentator's view podcast,

I think the two of us, we had slightly differing views on this, because I think that Alexander Arnold won't start, because I'm going off what Tuchel had said when he named his squad announcement, that it's one thing to get nominated in his words, it's another thing then to, to earn your place to actually then play the actual game.

And he talked then about the trust and responsibility of the players who served him well for the majority of that tournament in the summer. Now obviously with the withdrawals, there's 15 of this squad who did go to the United States and the nine, including Trent Alexander Arnold, who are now bringing what he hopes is the new energy. But on that basis, that's why I don't think Alexander Arnold will start the first game.

You would think playing four times in the space of his, 11 days, there is going to be an opportunity, but you, I sense that you thought that Alexander Arnold would start. Yeah, but as we'll hear from Thomas Tuchel shortly, I think he has given us quite a clear indication that in fact it will be Jarrell Kwanza. Anyway, so let's hear from him. Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, who I asked when you take everything into consideration, if England's Spain is the match that he needs now or the match he doesn't need? I think we need because it just gets you out of your comfort zone straight away. We had a long tournament. Everyone acknowledges it. It was difficult, it was hard, like playing in altitude

with a red card and in the heat and being together actually being the first team in the one of the first teams being in the US and staying all the way. So to be now in another long international break and for the first time in a long two and a half weeks break is very demanding. But if you want to achieve something in sports, if you want to reach the next level of performance, which we all want to do, you need to get out of your comfort zone. If you play then in a new competition straight away against the reigning world champions, That's exactly what brings you out of it

and what brings hopefully the very best out of us because we need a complete performance in order to beat Spain. Do you think you have a greater confidence that you will get that performance from the training field into the match situation in a way that kept frustrating you at the World Cup? Yeah, I was like, I said it after the Norway game because I see it came from a good place. It came from a place of being hugely impressed by the way, by the quality and the commitment in training,

being impressed by the glimpses that we showed, the second half against Croatia, 22 minutes against Congo after the last water break. Like I had evidence. I know, I still have evidence. I know what this group is capable of doing. So we are looking for that. This is maybe, yeah, this is the task and to translate the potential that we have into a 90 minutes match.

Is it possible against Spain? I don't know. We will try. They are full of quality. They are full of winning mentality and they are full of confidence. So it is the most difficult one at the moment in world football. But that's the bar. the bar that we compete against and I think it's for sure good learning no matter what.

Of the players you've got in this squad, is it fair to call Jarrell Kwanza the man in possession when we're talking about right back? And I know he's been playing there this season for Labourcuzn as well. Yeah, maybe he starts from a 51% position into this competition with Trent because he was at the World Cup, he was good at the World Cup and he plays regularly now on the position and he's competing with this desire to keep his shirt and Trent is competing in training to take it away, get some minutes and press us and there are four matches in a short period of time so they are competing for the spot and Jarrell is in a good place and had some very good sessions the last days. Are you curious to see what the atmosphere will be like?

the crowd will be like at Wembley? Yeah, I'm curious because I feel a lot of excitement towards the team. I feel a lot of excitement from our fans towards the team and towards the match. It's, yeah, we have only 15 players with us who were with us in the US. We have nine players with us who were not there.

So I hope they also bring the same level of commitment and we can show the same spirit and energy that took us through the top. tournament in the US and hopefully get this thing going because it's it's it's an advantage that we should absolutely try to try to to maximize playing on in in in in in in in in in Bainbley must become yeah must become an advantage for yeah because you've had you've had a bit of fun with them over the course of the time that you've been in charge but but it's going to yeah you did but it's but it would be so

important won't it when it comes to the tournament yeah on home ground at Wembley in matches like this. And I just want to make this very, very clear. I am 100% convinced that when it comes to a tournament and comes to our home tournament, that we will have the advantage from our fans because I experienced it now in the US. And I know and have an idea how difficult it was for our fans to get there, to stay there, and to be there, and still they were, and we created it. And they created some outstanding moments together with our team.

So, yeah, I know what it can be like. And I'm not shy to say that makes a difference because it is just like this. I was complaining in our match against Wales because we were 3-0 up after 15 minutes. And the atmosphere was not on that level to push the team. And so I said it. I got a lot of stick for it. I totally get it. Let's see what it will be tomorrow.

I'm sure we will have fantastic support and decisive support in the Euros and we need it. We need it. It would be silly to say that we don't need it. Why wouldn't we use it and why wouldn't we maximize it? This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy.

It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. They are champions again, but not only that, they've won it four years running, and no one's done that ever. Then the Premier League dropped a bombshell. The Premier League has charged Manchester City with more than 100 breaches of its financial rules following a four-year investigation.

Somebody turned up at the Hetty Had Stadium and effectively served papers. Hear the in-depth analysis and explanation with football on trial. The Manchester City charges. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Football Daily podcast with John Murray and Ian Dennis. So there we are, Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, Ian Dennis, with me. I think one of the things we're going to be watching, listening out for at Wembley Stadium, is how the crowd does react to Thomas Tuchel.

I think after what he said on the squad announcement day, about how 99% of people, when they talk to him, talk about Dior Congo, talk about Mexico, and not about his substitutions. against Argentina, whereas, you know, it's probably true that the other side of that can be also correct in that 99% of people probably also want to know more about those substitutions.

Yeah, he used the word curious with you, didn't he when you asked him about the crowd. Well, I said, will you be curious? Yeah. To see what the crowd is like. Yeah, and then he did say, yes, I will be curious. I'm intrigued. I do think that,

I'm trying to think of the approach of England as well, that I think I wonder how that will affect the crowd because if England are on the back foot, I think the crowd could get frustrated. I'm not thinking that they can go there and play with a handbrake off as they did against France in the third, fourth place playoff against France in Miami. But if they did have a little bit more of a front-footed approach,

then I think the crowd will go with them. So I think, depending on the approach of England, I think that will set the tone for how the crowd respond. Right, let's hear from Harry Kane then, the England captain who you've been talking to. Yeah, and I basically said to him that he talked earlier in the week, as we'd mentioned, to the written press where he talked about the hurt and the pain of losing that World Cup semi-final to Argentina. So I didn't necessarily want to go over that, but I did want to hear the England captain's thoughts on the criticism that Thomas Tuchel has received.

Yeah, I think it's tough to see. I think whenever your leader, your boss is under fire, Yeah, it's never nice, I think, as a player, as a captain. Ultimately, we know it comes with the job, we know it comes with the territory. He would have known that signing up for the job. That's just part and parcel of being the manager. If you don't get over the line,

if you don't win, there's always going to be criticism of, yeah, the boss or the players or whoever it may come down to. But, look, I think he's reacted well to it. He spoke honestly, openly. As we all have, I think, all the players, you know, it was a tough one to take. and I think there was definitely things that, areas that we can improve

from the whole summer, not just it's easy just to think about Argentina but I think the whole summer in general there's things we can improve. A lot of things we've done well as well on positives that we need to continue. But ultimately it is part of the job when you're playing for England

or managing England at the highest level in the World Cups, you're going to be under pressure and that's just a reality of it. When you say areas to improve, what are those areas? I think still performance-wise playing. I think we have a certain level that we reach maybe in qualification or in training and we haven't quite translated that into games.

We have a lot of really good traits that get us far in tournaments, which is personality and character, togetherness, mentality, quality as well. But yeah, I don't think when we look back over the summer, I don't think there was a full 90 minutes performance that we could say that was the performance. I spoke a little bit before. The Costa Rica game just before the tournament, I thought was our level of just with the ball, without the ball intensity.

A lot of our strengths were showcased in that game. Of course, it's easier said than done. You're playing against the best nations on the biggest stage under the highest pressure. And the good thing is that we've got a lot of winning traits that get us to where we've got to. I think the next step for us is just to be able to consistently play better, especially in the bigger matches against the better teams,

We definitely have the capabilities of doing it, but you still need to go out there and show that. I think this Nations League campaign now is a good opportunity for us to play some big nations again and hopefully put in some better performances. I spoke to Baccau the other day and he said he believes that England are close to gaining success. I would imagine you would share that belief,

but what is that missing ingredient then to get England over the line? Yeah, I think it's just in those biggest moments, you know, still being ourselves. I think the Argentino game was so hard to take. to take because I think we had a mindset of going to win the tournament and win in our way, in our style and if we lose trying to do that then we'll take it. But the Argentina game was maybe the first game we tried not to lose the last 30 minutes and we ended up losing anyway and it just stings even more.

So again, when you're under the pressure, when you're under the lights, it's making good decisions in those moments but always I think for us now is the mentality to go for the win. I've experienced it at Bayern Munich, for example, and you don't fear anyone. You go and be yourself and if a team beats you, you shake the hand after and say, well done. But you have an identity that you keep throughout. And I think with England now,

that's where we need to look. We're very close. We've been very close, but ultimately, so really we don't need to fear anyone. We just need to be ourselves in the biggest moments and hopefully get over the line. From memories of the Nations League with a win away in Spain,

And also your goal at Wembley was a cracking atmosphere against Croatia. That particular tournament came on the back of another defeat in a World Cup semi-final. So I just wonder how important is this Nations League to you and the rest of the players? Yeah, I think it is important because it's not a new beginning. It's a continuation of Thomas's reign and us as a squad and what we're trying to achieve. And I think if we can get a good win tomorrow and have a good group stage, get qualified through the group one it allows us to then play

bigger games next year and against the best teams but also just gives us momentum there was a lot of good things in the summer and even beating France towards the end although it weren't the most competitive

match it's still a big game and we played extremely well so yeah it's just to continue those feelings I think over the World Cup and the pre-games I think we, what do we have, 10 games or something and we won 8, drew one, lost one.

So, you know, if you're at club level now, it's a fantastic record to have, but at international we know it doesn't work like that. So it's about continue those. If we can get some good wins over this next period, I think it'll wets up leading into the year ahead. Talking of records, you've started the season very well again, 152 goals in 154 appearances at Bayern.

Is this the best you've ever been in your career in terms of where you're at? Yeah, 100%. I spoke about it over the last year or so, but I think the stats beat for themselves, but also just the performances in how I'm playing, how I'm feeling. I think physically just in the best shape I've ever been.

Mentally, just whether it's on the pitch, off the pitch, just really happy, really going into every game, feeling like, you know, I've got a chance of scoring or getting on the ball and helping the team. And I think just enjoying it. I'm playing with a smile on my face. I love every match I play,

every time I'm on the pitch. I think you're seeing that in the performances. So right now it's about just extracting that for as long as possible and still try and find little ways to improve and keep pushing the level. And last year was incredible and my best season, for sure, individually and as a team. And now I was about trying to go even one step further

and see if I can do more individually and with the team as well. We spoke a number of years ago, and I remember you're saying that you wanted to emulate Messy and Ronaldo. Do you think with those numbers that you're at that level now?

No, I wouldn't say I'm on their level. I think Messia and Ronaldo were two of the greatest ever players to play the game. I think I've been able to do it for the last couple years and be on a similar level in terms of goals

and things like that. Obviously, they've won the biggest trophies. They've done it for 10, 15 years. years longer and still going now. So I wouldn't put myself on their level. And I think I'm a completely different player to both of them and many other players out there. So yeah, I always try and compare myself to, you know, my best version or my best, my best season. And right now, yeah, I'm feeling as good as ever. But yeah, to reach those too, I don't think it's something I'm thinking about.

The next 11 days you could equal Peter Shilton's record of 125 caps. October the 26th, hopefully you'll be named as the Ballandor winner. Have you thought how special it could all be? No, of course, it could be amazing. I mean, first of all, hopefully managed to play the four games this camp and equal the record and an incredible record to reach without a doubt would be an extremely proud moment for me. And then that would hopefully lead into November

and being able to break it. In between that, like you said, there is a Baden Doha to, yeah, again, would be incredible to win. You know, it's the biggest individual prize there there is. Yeah, like I touched on a bit earlier, it was my best season so far in my career, and I achieved a lot with both England and with Bayern Munich. So, yeah, we'll have to wait and see.

There's the possibility of it being a really special couple of months, without a doubt. but as we know in life and football it doesn't always pan out the way you want so you have to be prepared for anything and see what happens. I know you're too modest but then you would be with Rinaldo and Messi.

Yeah, I mean they want it seven times and five times or something. That's what I mean, it's still a long way to go until I can be put in a conversation with those two but it'll be a step in the right direction. Well, we wish you will.

Thank you very much. So that was my conversation with Harry Kane. Modest as ever, insane numbers that he's produced at Bayern Munich but if he was to win the Ballandor on the 26th of October and I joke with him there that all of a sudden he would be then on a level with Messi and Ronaldo but that would be some achievement wouldn't it for him but I think in the season that he had

I'm not sure we talked about it enough the fact that last season he's scored 73 goals for club and country which is astonishing but I think you know he's up against stiff opposition you know Messi will obviously be we'll have a lot of support. And I think Kavitskeh Kailia, if you're talking about exciting footballers, footballers you want to watch, he's very close to the top of the tree at the moment.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, isn't it what you think, that there's been a number of reports that I've seen about who's going to replace Harry Kane. But he'll be 34 by the time Euro 2028 comes around. I can still see him leading England's line if he wants to, because his desire levels, the way he looks after himself,

if he's continuing to score goals at Bayern Munich it's imminent he's going to sign a new contract with a German team as well so he's going to continue to play at the top level so I can't see anybody usurping Harry Kane as England's number nine

for at least the next 18 months two years and beyond as for the Spain team it's going to be very similar isn't it to the team that actually we witnessed win the World Cup in New Jersey what did I say 69 days ago

I was struck by what Thomas Tuchel said to you that he said that he felt that France were the best team in the World Cup. I disagree with that. I think Spain were the best team at the World Cup and not only, I think they proved that by winning it, but in terms of how they defended, they restricted opponents to few shots on target

during the whole tournament. So I actually think that yes, England beat France in the third, fourth place, playoff game, but Caius Saka has already said, that was when the pressure was off. We just went out there and just went to enjoy it. there will be pressure on England at Wembley. They've got to get off to a positive start,

the top two qualify for the quarter-finals in this Nation's League group, so I think that there won't be that ability to be as carefree as they were against France. Well, Rodry, the World Cup winning captain, is due to speak at Wembley late on Friday night, so look out for the quotes from that on the BBC Sport website, from the former Manchester City midfielder, so it should be very interesting to hear

what he says with the story that has emerged today about the Premier League charges against Manchester City. But that is it. As I say, 5 Live is the place to be and the place to listen to the match commentary on England, Spain, live from Wembley on Saturday night, 745 kickoff, and also look out on BBC Sounds as well for that special football daily, which will react to today's Manchester City news with Mark Chapman. This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium. sex to see. It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. They are champions again, but not only that, they've won it four years running,

and no one's done that, ever. Then the Premier League dropped a bombshell. The Premier League has charged Manchester City with more than a hundred breaches of its financial rules following a four-year investigation. Somebody turned up at the Hetty had stadium and effectively served papers. Hear the in-depth analysis and explanation with football on trial. The Manchester City charges. Listen on BBC Sounds. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher.

This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the United States. media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, Catching My Teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.