Football Daily - UCL Debrief: Spurs Survive Villarreal & Arsenal’s Super Subs Shine in Bilbao

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Steve Crossman is joined by Conor McNamara and Chris Sutton to reflect on Spurs’ 1-0 win over Villarreal in their Champions League return. The Independent’s Miguel Delaney gives his take on Thomas Frank’s first game in the competition, a solid Spurs defensive display, and the costly mistake from Villarreal keeper Luiz Junior - plus we hear directly from Frank. Paul Robinson and Alistair Bruce-Ball report from Bilbao as Gabriel Martinelli and Leandro Trossard come off the bench to seal Arsenal’s 2-0 victory at Athletic Club, with Mikel Arteta’s reaction included. John Bennett rounds up the rest of the Champions League action and we look ahead to Chelsea’s trip to Bayern MunichTIMECODES:   1:21 - Reflections on Thomas Frank's first UCL match  8:16 - Thomas Frank's post-match reaction  10:26 - John Bennett rounds up the other UCL results  17:23 - Paul Robinson and Alistair Bruce-Ball from Bilbao  19:47 - Mikel Arteta's post-match reaction  25:13 - Ian Dennis and Pat Nevin look ahead to Bayern Munich v Chelsea  29:06 - Audio of Reece James  32:21 - A round-up of the League Cup  33:54 - Henrik Pedersen's attempt to stay positive

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcasts, Champions League debrief, with Steve Crosman. Hello there, welcome to the Football Daily podcast, where there have been wins in the Champions League for both Arsenal, 2-0 at Athletic Phil Bow, and Tottenham Hotspur 1-0 over Via Real, some huge stories elsewhere, which will bring you up to date with and pick out with John Bennett a little bit later from the BBC World Service. but let me give you the scores. Benfica 2, Carabag 3.

So that's Carabag winning their first ever Champions League match and they were 2-0 down. PSV won Royal Union San Gilaire 3. Again, Union Sanjolwa in their first ever Champions League game, winning 3-1 away from home. Juventus were 4-2 down to Borussia Dortmund after 93 minutes. After 96 minutes, the game was over and they'd drawn 4-all Lloyd Kelly with the late equalizer there.

Real Madrid beat Marseille 2-1. It was won all when Real Madrid went down to 10 men. Danny Carval sent off for what you might call a headbutt. There wasn't too much contact, but he went. So that's the night in the Champions League. Let's start then at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Connor McNamara and Chris Sutton were there. And Connor, this was just job done and no more for Thomas Frank.

Yes, Thomas Frank celebrates a victory at his first game as head coach in this competition. The deciding goal of very unusual one, it came after only three minutes and eight seconds. the earliest goal that Spurs have ever scored in the Champions League. Lucas Breville crossed from the right wing looked to be straightforward to gather for Villarreal's Brazilian goalkeeper Lewis Jr. But he somehow turned it into calamity despite diving out of his goal line. He popped the ball backwards somehow into the unguarded net.

And what followed was real evidence of the changes that Thomas Frank is bringing into this Spurs team. They didn't push on to add to that early lead. The goal itself doesn't count as a shot on target being the ricochet off the goalkeeper. So there was only one shot on. target between both sides in the game. That was from Pape Sars after half an hour or so.

So last season's Europa League winners. Haven't blown anything away here, but they've done the important thing. They got the win. So we've got Connor and Chris in the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Also with us, the Independence Chief Football writer, Miguel Delaney. Evening, Miguel. Evening. Thoughts on that one then?

There were better games in the Champions League tonight than that. I think it's fair to say. Yeah, I was at one of them. I'm actually sitting in Bill Bow. I've just helpedfully my hotel is just a two-minute walk from a Salomemere Stadium so yeah we're going to to walk over after

our tennis press conference and catch pretty much all of the Spurs second half and immediately felt I was glad I missed most of the first half because it was a day game I wouldn't be too critical of Spurs the moment actually despite that I must say because it does feel and this often happens with a manager who's in a new job like this

and obviously has to change things tactically that there's often a bit of back and forth there was still like one week or rather back and forth there's an inconsistency in terms of performance level I think that's definitely what we've seen at Spurs

where one week it looks like that Frank really has imposed what he wants and the next obviously the players aren't applying what he wants as well I think that's natural this early in

but it is actually promising that they're still actually bar that one defeat to Bormouth and we all know what Bormitt have been like under Irola think it's one of the great stories

of Premier League at the moment but despite that Spurs have been steady in terms of the results And that's an encouraging habit to develop. And I suppose tonight was another case and point given there were moments in the second half, particularly that with that initial penalty call that was overturned, but that could have been a red card as well,

where it could have got a bit tricky for Spurs, but they did, they managed to weather it. Yeah, Chris, at the end of the day, there are some teams who if they'd had that exact same performance and result, people would have said, ah, but that's the sign of a good team to win when you're not playing well. Yeah, but I think it is and, you know, essentially Champions League, huge competition, get off to a good start. Doesn't matter how.

You know, these are the early days of Thomas Rankin at Tottenham and he's had an excellent start. And, you know, it will take time for players to get the combinations and the understanding amongst the team and whatever. You know, there's been a lot of change here over the summer, but all things being equal, Three wins out of four in the Premier League, going up to Manchester City and putting on a bit of a master class. It wasn't perfect tonight. I mean, Spurs are, I'll say they're lucky to have Mickey Van der Venn and Romero. But, you know, they were absolutely monumental for them at the back tonight.

And, you know, Vicario had very little to do because of them. Up front, you know, Simmons was quite off the left-hand side. Kudas had his moments. Richarlerson was pretty much snuffed. out. Bergval, you know, was excellent. He was the one who caused problems with his, with his relentless forward running. And, you know, he was, he was the star really going forward for Tottenham this evening. But in the end, you know, Thomas Frank saw the game through, stiffened up the midfield, put Pellinia on and, and they got the, you know, the job done, desired effect. And,

and they could just move on now to Brighton at the weekend. And it's a great result for Tottenham. I think, Connor, if I was watching that as a Tottenham fan, the only thing I would really care about is that those two centre halves are fit and firing and looking like their absolute best selves. Yeah, look, absolutely. And, you know, there's been much written about, you know, that you look at the number of injuries that Tottenham have had over the past couple of seasons. When they have had fully fit teams, this club has looked the business. They've looked really, really good. They've been able to take on, you know, the best teams around and do well against them. But whether it has been that the horse has been whipped too much, but the number of injuries they've had

has been catastrophic at times. It has really been a problem for them. And Thomas Frank must be aware of that. And, you know, you see the depth that he had, the quality of the substitutes he was able to bring on this evening, the likes of Joe Pellini are coming on, Brennan Johnson, the new sign in Colomowmowani. He brought on Destiny of Doggy, Kevin Danzo.

You know, it just shows the strength of squad that he's got to be careful with now. This group phase of the Champions League goes through eight games. It goes on all the way to January. Then we start talking with the knockout phase. So Tottenham, we've got a league up game against Doncaster last week. keeping players fit, especially Van de Ven and Romero, I think has got to become one of the priority things for them.

Yeah, and I think, Miguel, you have to think as well that at some point probably fairly quickly. And look, I'm not saying that this is going to be their starting three. They've got players to come back. But Kudas, Simmons, Kolo Mawani, if they were your regular three, they are going to make music at some point. Yeah, absolutely. Especially the link up between Kouros and Zavi Simmons, I'd be particularly, excited by and yeah as you say these things do take time to develop i mean it's easy to forget sometimes

that you know this is essentially a new uh a new set at the section of the team for spurs that it isn't just plug and play especially given the entire rest of the team is also adapting to what thomas frank is trying to do yeah and i think he is good to be fair at immediately or sorry at quickly getting players to click we've seen it at brentford the way he basically i mean i think one of the most impressive things out of Brentford, beyond results and how he stabilised

them as a Premier League team on that wage bill was also how he went basically through three different approaches from kind of, you know, a very kind of possession-based game as they came up to the Premier League then this kind of more direct style

when they were actually in it. And so it shows how he can engender this effect quite quickly. And I think we will see the same at Spurs. And as you say, once that trio finally start to finally start to get to know each other, you know, develop those relationships

as the coaching terminology goes these days, then we will see a different dimension to this spurs. I think that's also why it is natural maybe that some games are going to be like this and more subdued because we're in a situation where I don't know each other well-nought there's only going to be those individual flashes that come off extinctively, but I think that will evolve.

Here's the Tottena manager, Thomas Frank. I thought it was a pick win. In any competition, it's good to get three points and get a good start. Happy with that. happy with clinchied, happy with the defensive side of the game. I think we were extremely good and limited Villarrel to very, very little. Throughout the game, a good team I really admire.

Obviously, offensively, we struggled on the day to create something against a good team. And I also defended very well, which we knew in the 4-4-2 structure, very aggressive. And when we're on a day, I think, they need the highest level in terms of touch and passes, decision-making. and nailed that, then it was a very even game that we etched in the end. What I like is that our foundation is strong. Now we are four game in Premier League one in the Champions League and we have four clean sheets, which is massive. Obviously, we are building the offensive structure and more and more.

Shark Seamus just come into the club. Clearly, say, him and Jets need a little relationship. Of course, get going. No complaints. It's just natural. So, and there was a, I think there was a spell, second half, where we decided to give the ball away every single time we had it. So we gave the ball away, let's sprint back.

Oh, we give it away again and sprint back. So, of course, it's a little bit easier to sit here with a smile. But of course, that level we will raise, of course. Miguel's staying with us until half past 10. Chris, just checking. Is there anything you want to say to Rory Smith before we let you go? Well, yeah, very rare. I mean, I take my hat off to Rory, you know,

set in commentary, you know, normally on a. Monday night I have to take an hour and after the show and think did Rory really say that? But tonight he's got something right so well done Rory Smith I doubt it will last though but that's an unbelievable tip isn't it? Carabag

I mean and when they went two down I've got to say I was chuckling to myself and thinking what an idiot and who's the idiot now? No comment. Chris Conner, great stuff thank you both very much indeed Spurs 1 VRAL Nill will have more on Arsenal's 2-0 winner athletic bill bow shortly we've got miguel we've also got john bennett from the BBC

world service let's just go through some of the scores because some of these games so chris was just alluding to it caribag were two nil down at benfica first ever champions league game come back and win three two i feel like we've got to start with yuvae four dortman four i told you it was going to be good i would never have expected to be starting with this at half time yeah it's one of the worst games i've ever seen up until half time then second half it turned into a goal of the month competition eventus four Barisia Dortmund 4. Juventus were 4-2 down, going into injury time.

Dusan Vlauovic pulled one back, his second goal of the game from close range, 94th minute. Then you think, Borisia Dortmund, just hold on to the ball. They don't do that. DeSan Vlovich picks it up, crosses it in. And who scores Lloyd Kelly with a diving header in the 96th minute to make it 4-4, former Bournemouth player, former Bristol City player. Two in two games for him, Dortmund were never behind in the game. They won't believe that they haven't won this game.

But for Juventus, what a couple of days it's been. They won four three at the weekend against the Inter with a 91st minute winner, now an equaliser in the 96th minute in the Champions League. Yeah, so for Lloyd Kelly to score in the Derby, Detalia, when UV score four, and then get that one as UV score four against Dortmund. Miguel, I'm hoping for your sake, because I know the Carabag story's massive as well. Were you able to watch like three or four of these games simultaneously or what? No, I wasn't actually just because.

because, I suppose, of, well, to be honest, the difficulty of accessing some channels that actually subscribe to online and, of course, being in a different country. So I've been kind of catching flashes of the goals. It's kind of tough you get to see online. And obviously, kind of talking to colleagues who are at these games,

and particularly with the Juventus, with Dortmund one, just suddenly to tell. I mean, to go from extreme to extreme like that. And all you're getting from kind of colleagues who are there is basically just exclamation marks. Carabag is the story, Miguel, there, isn't it? Yeah. At the end, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have to say, I was like Chris. I saw that at 2-0 because, you know, I've been conscious of kind of Carabag's progress this because I've played one of the Irish teams. So, I mean, it looked like it was going to be a huge step up. But Rory was right. There is, you know, capacity at the club. And I think it also shows something that's going to be interesting in this Champions League season where, look, I mean, the very fast. there are six English clubs there is the ultimate showcase of Premier League power.

And I think that could be, it's one of these things that isn't necessarily a positive development for the European football as a whole or for the Champions League. And I think, to be honest, at least five of those clubs should really qualify. I think two or three them qualify quite comfortably like last year. But I think below that, beyond maybe two or three of you, there are super clubs, like Paris Sangerment, obviously, maybe Barcelona. I think this season is going to see a real battle in the middle for those, you know, well, obviously the 16 are the main qualification places and then the playoff places.

And it could actually be a Champions League that's more, a bit more chaotic than last season because it does feel like we've got a crunch. I mean, I mean, that Villarreal defeat to Spurs as well today. I mean, one of the other aspects of it is that, I mean, that Villarreal squad, it looks like basically a team that's been put together, almost a piecemeal way from discarded parts of other wealthier teams

and that's not trying to be uncharitable that's sort of what you know the economy or the modern economy of football has forced and I do think actually the a lot of the Spanish teams I mean I was at the Atlantic Bilbeo game

Bilbeau were obviously unique they do their own thing in terms of obviously only using players from the area so they are different and I think the very fact they're back in the competition is a healthy thing you could feel it

just before the game that anticipation that excitement but Spanish football as a whole even though the national team is actually probably the best in the world now most of its best players play abroad and Spanish football the league is actually

it is in a bit of a low ebb as it tries to as it goes through this ongoing adaptation period from the Barcelona and Madrid Ronaldo Messier and such actually huge debt and hence it's left a few with clubs in quite low places even though this is one of the Europe's strongest league

so again I think you'll see that crunch and within that we've got clubs like Carabag and also Union in San July I'd actually know a few people at the club

and they're extremely well-run club I mean people might be aware of how they're part of the kind of

Tony Bloom Brighton intelligence and they use that to great effect and it's amazing how they subjected a historic club

like PSV who are you know who were European champions in 1988 semi-finals in 2005 and this Belgian

club people wouldn't have been too aware of beforehand just really destroyed them tonight so because of all that I think

we're going to see maybe four or five clubs that are comfortable at the top and then a huge crunch in the middle of this Champions League season and yeah, someone like Carabag. I mean, well, it was 11 points to qualify last year. I think that could actually go down a little bit this season because of the intensity of competition. And certainly if you're Carabaghan, you've got three points

from an away game like that that you wouldn't necessarily have expected to win, that suddenly goes a long way to potentially playing this competition after January. John, just before we let you go, No Champions League night would be complete without Roberto Deserby pulling his hair out. Real Madrid to Marseille won, yeah, Desirby, the Marseille manager. He won't believe they lost this one because Real Madrid went down to 10 men on 70 minutes when it was worn worn.

Danny Carvajal, who'd come on for Trent Alexander Arnold after just three minutes. Trent Alexander Arnold had to go off with a hamstring injury. He was sent off Carverhall for a headbutt on the Marseilles keeper. So then you think Marseille have got a chance, but just seven minutes later. Real Madrid win a penalty, a handball. Killian Mbapé scores it. So he's got 50 goals now for Real Madrid.

He's done it in 64 games. So he's the fastest to reach that landmark of 50 Real Madrid goals since Cristiano Ronaldo. John, thank you very much indeed. John Bennett from the BBC World Service. The Women's Football Weekly has found a new home. It's a very own feat. We've called it, unsurprisingly, BBC Women's Football Weekly.

We'll continue to bring you the latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. They're throwing some big money around. I want to see how they line up, how everyone fits in. Episodes will be available every Tuesday as ever, alongside special, unfiltered player interviews from the biggest names in WSL and beyond. To make sure you never miss an episode, just search for BBC Women's Football Weekly and hit subscribe once you get there. Daily podcast, Champions League debrief with Steve Crosman. The earlier kickoff in the Champions League, Arsenal, 2-0 winners against Athletic Bill Bow in the Bass country. Paul Robinson and Ali Bruce Ball were there for us. Here they are.

Well, that was exactly what Mikhail Arte dexter demanded from his players ahead of this tricky-looking opening Champions League assignment to be on their game right from the start, to snuff out the danger from an in-form athletic team, back playing at this level for the first time in 11 years, and playing in front of their fantastic fans. And I think Paul Robinson, what we saw as well, which we've already discussed this season, Michel Artetta, using the full depth of his squad to complete the job here in Spain. Yeah, they've got strength and depth now

that they haven't had before. Granted, they've spent $250 million in the summer, but they've brought in quality. And Madewiki, I know there's a lot of Arsenal fans. I was going to say split opinion, but it wasn't. There was a lot of negativity around Madueki. The way he played for England midweek

and the way he played again tonight on that right-hand side, he looked a threat. I think spending that amount of money on the players that he has now. Miquel Artetta, it's become a time now where he's got to produce, and they've had a fantastic start in the league, bar that one blip against Liverpool, where he had his critics have been too defensive and too pragmatic,

defending weaknesses rather than playing to strengths, where actually now you look at this Arsenal team. Strengths actually do lie in the final third, as well as their defensive third. And coming here tonight, you looked at it at half time, it was a scrappy game, athletic, a very, very difficult club to beat. Best record in the league of defensively last season.

It was never going to be easy for Arsenal. But I think when you speak to Mikhail Artetta at this point, we haven't as yet, we're about to hear from him. I think he will say that that was the game plan carried out to the exact execution that he wanted. And to get the goals, Paul, I mean, Eza's another one they spent big money on, didn't have his best game,

but then a player comes on like Gabrielle Martinelli, who's been at the club for years, knows probably out of joint because someone's coming to threaten his place and he's the guy who scores the crucial go-ahead goal. I've not got enough praise for Martinelli this evening because obviously he won't be happy sitting on the bench tonight, but to have the attitude that he had to come off the bench

and with his first three touches score a goal. I mean, it wasn't just a tapping. We know we say, oh, these players come on and he scored with his first goal. Actually, this was from almost at the halfway line. His first touch and second touch was sublime, got himself into the box one-on-one with the goalkeeper, and he applied the finish. And that was immediately after coming off the bench. So his attitude has got to be commended.

But he did that last year in the Bernabal against Real Madrid. And you look at the squad at his disposal now. Trosard came on. And we forget about the likes of Odegaard, Havert, Saliba, who weren't even here tonight. So three points for Arsenal. Also, historically, they become only the third English team to win against athletic Bilbao away from home. Manchester United did that last season in the semifinals of the Europa League.

The great Liverpool team at the early 80s did that as well. Let's hear what the Arsenal manager made of it. Yes, what an amazing place to play football. I must say one of the best atmospheres that I've played. A really tough match. We knew that the first 25 minutes it was going to be really tough, especially the way they play so intense, a lot of direct play, a lot of jewels. And I think I said that we started to grow throughout the game and the second

on how we're much more fluent, dominant and look much more of a threat. And at the end, the finishers, they made the impact for us to win the game and overall very happy. What does it say about the existing players in the squad like Leandro Trossard and Gabriel Marcelli to be able to come off the bench to have that impact? That they are at least equally important or more important than we have discussed that the finish are going to be more important this season sometimes than the starters. And we can change the game then, especially when with intensity that we play, when teams start to drop off

and I'm very pleased to see that and Piero comes in, he plays six minutes the best six minutes he's played. Christian is the same and that's the attitude that we need from all of us. Now another one of the new signings, Paul, that I want to ask you about who I think you were really impressed within this game

didn't score Victor Juerrez. Yeah, I like him and for one of a better phrase like an old-fashioned centre forward. We speak so long, not just myself, but others in the media and other people who have analysed football critics. Arsenal needed a number nine. They've not had an out-and-out number nine.

He is that. and he works so hard tirelessly with and without the ball he makes some fantastic runs he made a diving header in the first half that they had a really good opportunity and Arsenal haven't had the players to do that before the ball's whipped in across the six yard box and he's flying across a six yard box full length trying to head it in is he runs the channels he chases lost causes he scored three and four before this game started they took a head injury a nasty blow to the head didn't look himself came off just after half time but actually his work rate and the way that he works the channels and he works defenders he's one of those

players that in the game, if he doesn't score, he's going to cause the central defenders that many problems that others around him will get a lot more space and be able to score. What have they played? Five games so far this season, four in the Premier League, one in the Champions League. They've conceded one goal. It was a wonder strike from Dominic Soberslie, three points in the bag in his first Champions League game and two days extra rest now before they play Manchester City in a massive game on Sunday at the Emirates. That's big as well. And as we speak here in Bilbao, the Arsenal players will obviously be in the dressing room now, getting ready to get on the way home.

But they'll be on the plane tonight. They'll be home back in London around midnight this evening. And as you say, two more days preparation than Manchester City. Big game for them on Sunday. I'll be honest, I was surprised when I saw his team selection before this game. With that in mind, Mikhail Arteta has shown tonight that he is literally taking one game at a time. Because if he's looking towards Sunday as a huge pivotal game, I'm not so sure that

starting 11 would be exactly the same. I expected there to be one or two tweaks in that tonight. He went full tilt. Well, as Arsenal fans were well know, they have never won the Euro European Cup in their history. This is their 24th attempt at doing it. Mikhailiteta wanted a good start to the league phase and he got it.

Three points in Bilbao and next up for them, Olympiacos at home and I'll leave you with this. Arsenal have also achieved in this game. Something no other team has done in the history of the European Cup and now the Champions League and that is win six games in a row against Spanish opposition. Late goals from Martinelli and Trossard did the job.

Very happy Arsenal fans in Bill Bough this evening. Ali Bruce Ball and Paul Robinson, Miguel, was there inside San Mammis as well. As you can imagine, Miguel, we kind of went straight in off the back of the game with Arsenal strength in depth, etc, etc. However, having spoken a lot about Martinelli and Trossard, we didn't really talk a lot about Christian Mosquera, who also fits that bill and had a really good game.

Oh, he's been a brilliant signing. I mean, to be honest, I was at the Liverpool game where he made his Premier League debut. And it was actually immediately obvious that presence. I think that's like this is one of the real credit to Arsenal's recruitment. Because even the price they got him at, what was around 20 million for a player who I think they're already talking about would be valued much more. He just looks so assured despite the pressure, like I've got a Liverpool game, hasn't put a foot wrong. Also, like so much of Arsenal at the moment, there's a real physical presence there. And actually, that's one of the things that really struck in tonight's game, just the pure muscularity of Arsenal, how the effect that has.

in a game like this because, I mean, as Artetta spoke after the match, he expected a strong start from Athletic Bilbao just because of, you know, the anticipation, the way they play. They really wanted to make a statement in the return to the Champions League. And it was a tough 20 minutes for Arsenal. And then it was just like they asserted this robust control. And like pretty soon they were creating all the chances. The lads mentioned in Jokcarez there.

He could have scored with a header well before half time. And then as we went into the game as a game evolved and a player like Mascara, as you say, just so secure at the back. I mean, to be honest, it never looked like athletic we're actually going to score in this game, really. But Arsenal just needed those finishing touches. And as Artes actually described him after the game, something he's taken from rugby, and specifically Eddie Jones,

he described his subs as not as subs, as finishers. And I think that's going to be a real theme of Arsenal season. As he acknowledged himself, he's going to have to keep a lot of players who are disappointed to be able to starting lineups happy. And one of those ways might be as finishers. Miguel, great stuff. Thank you very much. Great to have you on. Cheers, guys.

That's Miguel Delaney, Chief Football Writer at the Independent. two more English sides in Champions League action. Tomorrow night, Liverpool, welcome at Lettico, Madrid to Anfield. We will have live commentary of Chelsea away at Bayern Munich with Pat Nevin and Ian Dennis, who arrived in Munich today. Thank you and a warm welcome from Germany. And as you'd expect, we are in one of the finest Munich hostelries looking ahead to this game and I'm in the company of Pat Nevin.

And Pat, I heard you on five live last night and you said that Chelsea were the underdog. yet this is a Chelsea side that had European success albeit in the Conference League last season but has since won the Club World Cup and they beat the Champions League winners Paris Saint-Germain. Yeah, it's a fairly decent argument

but there's a good argument against it as well. They've not been in the Champions League for a few years now. They're a very, very young side that's still growing. There is a gigantic difference between the Conference League and the Champions League try to win both of those competitions

by a minute of there every year and they're usually competitive every single year as well. The game obviously being at the The Alliance, it's going to be a big ask as well for Chelsea coming here, but we all know Chelsea have done it before at the Alliance. They've done it in the Champions League final, but a very, very different Chelsea to the team that will come here now.

It's nowhere near his experience. But they're building their experience all the time. And for me, if they get a result and even get a draw, I think that's a brilliant result for Chelsea. Because if you look at most teams that come to this ground, they really struggle because of the pressure that's put on them and the expectation of Bayern. What then are your expectations?

of Chelsea. Because I was asked by a Mexican journalist, actually, when I arrived at the press conference last night, and he said, do you see Chelsea's favourites? And I said no. Liverpool, for me, are the favourites before a ball has been kicked in this tournament. So who are your favourites and what are your expectations of Chelsea? I suspect Chelsea will get to the next stage, maybe even quite comfortably. We've got a deep enough squad. It's a bit of a miss having the lap unavailable, but there's enough good players and there's a set squad there, so it's actually okay. So Chelsea, comfortable. the way that the Champions League now works they'll get enough points on the board to get there going very deep into the competition maybe a year early for that but that's not a problem it's a young side they're building they're growing they know what they're doing and I kind of like

what they're doing I like the way that team looks and I think there'll be a far better team in a year and there'll be a far better team in two years time so don't worry about Chelsea at all they'll be fine as for my favourite as well I usually go my head and not my heart but I'm going my heart this time and it's PSG and they won the last year

and it's purely because I love what they're doing. We've went through a phase. Some football's been actually boring. Have we allowed to say that? You know, it's been dull, it's been overpassing, it's not taking risks. And then you get Farritz-Kaley and his mates saying, no, forget that.

We're going for it. And they do. They attack everything. And I think a lot of teams that look at them and thought, that's the new way. And I'm delighted it is the new way. There is a problem for them. They played, you know, in the Club World Cup as well.

They got quite far in it. They've had limited amount of rest, but they're a quite young team as well. So I would go partially ahead, but mostly heart. But don't rate off obviously Liverpool. I've had another one I had to go for it after that, Arsenal. Depth of squad they've got now, they can get everyone fit. There's no many better.

Well, I spoke to Harry Kane in the build-up of this game, and obviously because of Bayern's history, he's aware that they're expected to challenge. Nicholas Jackson, who's on loan from Chelsea, won't start. He only played 45 minutes at the weekend. He is eligible to play against his parent club. And I guess he gives Vince and Company in Bayern an advantage because he can offer a great deal of insight

as to how Chelsea will play. That is definitely the case, and he knows all the players. He might know some of their weaknesses, but then they know his weaknesses as well. I mean, Jackson is absolutely lightning quick. Is he the most intelligent running with the ball or without a ball into space? Not necessarily.

He's not Harry Kane. That's a concern. That's a real concern that Chelsea will worry about his pace, but I think they know how he plays. So if you're asking me, are they scared about him, scoring. I think they'll have no worries about Harry Kane, about Michael Alisi, and obviously about Lewis DS as well. Well, let's hear from Nicholas Jackson's former teammate Reese James. No, it's a great night for me, you know, something I've dreamt of, you know, since the little boy

playing in this competition. And then to, you know, to captain him and walk out at such a historic stadium tomorrow is an amazing feeling. You know, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling strong. I know, we want to compete at the highest level, you know, and compete in the Premier League for all the, you know, domestic trophies and, you know, the Champions League as well. I believe we have a super strong team and, you know, that will be our targets this season. I have no doubts in the club and, you know, the team's ability to go on to, you know, compete against the best teams in Europe and in the world. And we will take that, you know, week by week, game by game.

And, you know, see where we come, you know, the end of the season. So that was Rees James. And he's talking their part about they can compete with anybody in the world. And I guess the success that they had last season. gives everybody in this relatively still young and definitely an experienced squad in terms of the Champions League, confidence. Yeah, they should be fearless.

No reason why they should fear anyone at all. They've beaten a lot of good teams. Do they look to me like they've got the strength and depths of one or two or three or four? Other teams in this competition? No, they don't. Not yet. And they certainly don't have the experience. But now and again, youth can surprise you.

So I think they'll do quite well in this competition. I just wouldn't be putting any pressure on them. saying the expectations are to get to quarter finals or even semifinals, if they got there, all well and good. But I think that's for next year or possibly the year after that because as I say, the likes of Kaysedo will be at its peak, the likes of Enzo by at its peak, Coal Palmer, at his peak, Estabal and growing to the player that is going to be.

And they will get the slight problem sorted that they have gotten events by then. Last season in the Europa Conference, they had one team for obviously that and then another team for the Premier League. In terms of squad rotation, when you're in Europe's elite competition, you can't afford to have it defined as easily as that, can you? And that's what helped Chelsea last season, massively,

because they knew when they could take the foot off of the gaffes in some competitions. You know, they got to the Champions League, but getting the right position in the league. That's fine. Well done. They organised and managed that well. They won the competition in the Europa League.

I have to be absolutely honest with you. Considering what they spent in comparison to everyone else in that competition, you should win that league. that competition, you absolutely should. But you've got to go and do it. So well done, Chelsea doing that. More than anything else of its experience, it gave them experience to Europe and it helped the young players coming on. So, yeah, the fearlessness

is there. I'm actually looking forward to Chelsea, hopefully being an open side, an exciting side, and watching some of the players to develop. They watch Chal Pedro. Interesting to see what he does in this elite level of European football. As I say, Istavale, Fabius. Certainly, Cole Palmer's good enough,

and he will be core to them. But there's quite a lot of other players coming through that I want to grow into the Champions League football. So, yeah, fine, good, look forward to it. If they didn't win against Bayern Munich, the good thing about the way it's set up this time, it's not the end of the world. But what a great result it would be if they could get a draw.

Well, they're back after a two-year absence in Europe's elite competition, and we will have full-match commentary from the Alliance Arena on BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds. Ian Dennis and Pat Nevin in Munich. So that's the Champions League done in the League Cup, Brentford and Crystal Palace

both through on penalties against Aston, Villa and Millwall respectively. Grimsby Town of League 2 having knocked out Manchester United are through again having won 1-0 at I think we have to call them Crisis Club Sheffield Wednesday. Just 3,000 Wednesday fans in because of an ongoing boycott, especially in League Cup matches. 6,000 from Grimsby. Julia Bald was watching and it must have been odd, Julia. It was very, very eerie. 9,424 were in attendance here at Hillsborough and as you say, Two thirds of those were the away fans.

So it felt more like we were at Grimsby, really. Jay's Cabier's goal, it was a header. That's the only goal of the game, but it doesn't really tell the story of the match, does it? They had six shots on target, did the League two side, compared to zero for Sheffield Wednesday. At the end of the game, Sheffield Wednesday's Rio Shippston just put his hands over his face,

and that pretty much sums up the situation at the club right now, doesn't it? with wages going unpaid at times, the ownership battle, and many of the home fans just staying away and what was a nice touch tonight was the Grimsby supporters didn't buy anything inside the stadium as they stood in solidarity. So yeah, it is Sheffield Wednesday, Nill, Grimsby won, and Grimsby just loving life in the League Cup, aren't they?

Julia, thank you very much indeed. And we've just got time to hear from the Sheffield Wednesday manager then, a club whose fan base are going through the ringer at the minute. here he is trying to stay positive. Of course, we're disappointed to lose always, but the biggest feeling I have is I'm proud of the performance. The young guys have done not only tonight, but over the last three cup games.

And I think tonight how they also grow through this game, it was a big experience for the boys, but I think it was a great great game for our young boys, how they can follow a game plan. We have one training yesterday, where we trained the game plan today. and when I saw how strong we were defensively, how few chances we gave away,

the score on the set pieces, but how well they are working together and also in difficult phases in the game, how they stay together as a young team, their boys are growing and growing. Sheffield Wednesday manager, Henrik Pedersen. So there you go. Football Daily podcast, everything from Grimsby Town to Rail Madrid.

As always, thank you so much for listening. On the Football Daily podcast, Champions League debrief with Steve Crosman Welcome to the brand new podcast series Rugby League Top 10 with me Mark Chapman It's where John Wilkin, Brian Noble and Jamie Peacock will discuss, debate and argue over lists at the best players, games, finals, iconic moments

and plenty of other categories that will no doubt leave you screaming at your device The most entertaining parts of our sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool. Yeah, I mean that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is. I think we've all managed to carry that bathroom.

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