Football Daily - Wales prepare for Women’s Euros debut

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Katie Smith is joined by former Wales international Nia Jones and Danny Gabbidon as well as BBC Wales’ Alex Richards to assess Wales’ chances at Euro 2025.They go back to where it all started, going from not having a full-time coach to reaching the European Championships.And crucially, the team look at how well Wales will be able to compete, with France, England and the Netherlands in their group. 8:10- The Journey Wales’ first full-time head coach Jarmo Matikainen 20:30- The impact of Rhian Wilkinson 32:00- The squad 38:00-The Group of Death 43:30-A supporters’ view

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he crashed and he left one hand on the steering wheel, he'd end up breaking his wrist. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the inside track, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. So, we are just a week and a half away then from a huge moment of history for Wales, finally making their major tournament debut at Euro 2025.

We're going to hear from manager Rhian Wilkinson, some of the squad competing on this stage for the first time too. They are in the so-called group of death alongside England, so we'll look at what chances they have of making an impact in the tournament. But also we thought we journey back beyond just this qualification process because it feels like that is such an intrinsic part of Wales's story. How many generations of players it has taken to get to this very point and how much change has had to happen in such a short space of time to ensure that they have finally reached a first major tournament and joining me former Wales international Danny Gavidon, Nia Jones capped 30 times for the national side and

BBC Wales reporter Alex Richards. How are we? Good after that preview. Very excited after the juices are flowing in. How much does it mean, Neil, like hearing that and we're going to talk about the journey in such wider context, but just the actual ability they had to get there and do what none other side has ever managed to do before. Well, it's unbelievable and I know that we'll talk about it a lot over the next 45 minutes or so.

But that island game in the 90 minutes almost encapsulated the journey that the team has been on for the last just over 30 years. They only joined up with the FAW officially back in 1993. And there's been a roller coaster since then, ups and downs, plenty of fight, times where you couldn't see a future at all and that playoff final against Ireland in Dublin at the Aviva just basically represented the team's journey over that 30 years I think. Megan Connolly came on with her long throws towards the end, it looked like we were going to lose it at times. We were out on our, dead

on our feet for long periods of the game so yeah it was just a perfect way to get us to our first major tournament. They really are history makers, the girls in that squad. And yeah, just want it to continue now. This is what we've been speaking about a lot in Wales over the last couple of weeks. Huge excitement, of course, for the girls in the squad heading to the Euros, but how can we make this not just a flash in the pan? Hopefully this is just the start of something really exciting. And Danny, you're going to be part of our team out in Switzerland for Five Live and I think important to almost reiterate that point Nia's made there of just how few Wales

internationals, men or women, have had the honour of doing this, representing their country at a major tournament. No, you're quite right. You're not keeping on the men's side as well, we saw what a huge moment that was for them, qualifying for the year 2016 and what that team was kind of able to go on and do. And the success that that team has kind of had over a 10, 12 year period kind of since then, has also helped the women's game as well to develop. So, you know, it goes kind of hand in hand. You know, we're a small country, not a massive kind of population, but we have had some fantastic players, men and women, for a number of years now. It's just been about getting over the line qualifying for these major tournaments, making sure that everything is kind of in

place, not just having the players, but the facilities, the right medical staff, the right manager, all these things. And that's what over the last kind of 10, 12 years, I said, the FAW have done a great job of doing. We've seen the success the men have had and we'd like the women to kind of continue on a similar path, a similar journey. So Alex Richard from BBC Wales with us as well. And I think before we get stuck into the current squad, Alex, and the upcoming tournament, we should go back, shouldn't we?

Everything we've already said, because it's so important to contextualise what this means for the Welsh women and how long a journey it has been to get there, because you go, you know, as not little back as 2004 and 2006. The Wales women team all but ceased to exist, didn't it? Yeah, I mean, and I actually think, Katie, that you probably, in a way, the journey began way before that really,

all the way back, I'd argue, in the 1970s. I mean, football was banned for women up until 1971. Then after that ban, Wales women team played their first ever match two years later in 1973. Granted it was an unofficial team back then, they were run by volunteers with no affiliation to the FAW. And they only played one or two games.

Then you move forward 10 years to like 1988 and all the games stopped. And then you're kind of thinking, well, okay, why? What's happened to the Wales women's team? And then it was thanks to former Wales players, you know, real trailblazers, Laura McAllister, Michelle Adams and Karen Jones in 1992, who sent a letter to the then FAW secretary general, Alan Evans, basically asking for a meeting.

And they were invited to the FAW offices in Cardiff. And that would turn out to be one of the most pivotal moments in the history of women's football because it was thanks to that meeting that basically the Wales women's team was established then in 1993. And then yeah, as you said, move forward. They then were put into kind of a Euro qualifying campaign in 1995. That was obviously the first campaign. And then moved forward then into the 2000s, they hit another bump in the road and the FAW basically had to withdraw from Euro 2005 qualifying because of funding basically arguing

that it was deemed too expensive to send the players to play against the opposition they were facing so they were up against the likes of Belarus, Israel, Estonia, Kazakhstan. But it was deemed that, you know, it was too expensive. They couldn't send them because they wanted to keep the funding for the men's team. So, you know. And I can hear the chuckling in the background there. I mean, it beggars belief, doesn't it? And there have been so many near misses along the way. What I want to just get into first and then we can react off the back is here a little bit from this recently released podcast series on BBC Sounds. It's called Iconic, The Rise of the Women in Red. It is such a brilliant listen and

it tells that entire story that Alex has just really nicely sort of laid out for us. But this is Jess Fishlock and Jane Ludlow speaking about Wales not having a full time head coach in the late noughties. We just had like a day coach sometimes. Like we would go to qualifiers and have our manager fly in the day of the game whilst we were out there, take the game because he would have another job and then leave. Caused a few problems. We were kind of fighting at that point that we needed a full-time manager but they were like no, your manager will fly out and meet you

the day of the game and you can go through everything then. And I think that was not really at a tipping point, but we were starting to kind of fight for more, probably at that point. Not sure how much influence I had at the time, and I tried lots of different avenues, and at times it was just pure frustration. It could be an end of a game moment, which is inappropriate.

But we were never really given an opportunity to speak to the decision makers. So the only route we had was to speak and challenge the coaching group with us. And to be fair to those coaches, as time went on, and the more I understand since, and I've been meaning the role, there were a lot of restrictions

around what they wanted to do. I retired more than once, because it was the bit of, I love playing for my country, but I got to a point, I was like, I can't change this. I guess now, we're 20 years, 30 years down the line, I understand how to influence a little bit better. But when you reflect back now, as a player, I had a certain viewpoint on things. And it was very much, how do we change this for the better so that the next generation don't feel unworthy like we did or like I did. And you know the one person who helped them immensely and I hope they still have very good relationships with him was Yarmou Matakainen. Well just like the

magic of radio can do let's bring in Wales's first ever full-time head coach, Jarmu Matukene. And who joins us now? Nóis byddá. Very good. I remember, Jarmu, you telling me that you do speak six languages, I think, and Welsh was the hardest to learn, but that was pretty good. Got to say that everybody says to me that Finnish language is impossible to learn, but I've got to say that Cambria comes pretty close.

How much Welsh can you speak or can you remember, Jarmu? I remember a few words. Dwi dodor fin dyr, dwi jarmu, dwi gwaethio impeldroid Cumbria, things like that. I mean, you guys are going to have to help me out. He's perfect. Swearing words. He said Wales are going to win the Euros and beat England. That's what he said.

Right. Enough of that. Let's talk about the past. Yeah. Jarmu, so should we go back to when you were appointed then? That was October of 2010. What state did you find the national side in when you joined? Well I felt that when I joined it I felt that there were good players already there,

there was a lot of potential for me. Of course if you look at the playing group, the way the players were playing and if you were aspiring to go to the final tournament, there was a lot of work that needed to be done. But nevertheless, I felt that there was something to build on. And in general, I felt that because knowing how passionate sports people and football people, Welsh people are, then you felt that there's a possibility to do something special. And I think you did a special something for Nia who's with us this evening. You gave Nia her debut suit. I mean Nia, this is a man you know pretty well then. Yeah, thanks for describing it as a state when he came in and then saying that he gave me my debut suit.

No, I actually owe so much to Yarmou and I think just Wales women owe so much to Yarmou because it wasn't just that he was the first full-time coach. The way that he shifted the culture during his tenure and the mindset I think is really staggering when it comes to actually us qualifying now. I think small things like logging our training when we weren't in camp. So we didn't have a lot of camps, we didn't play a lot of games. He was really hot on what are you doing away from camp so that we can really maximise our time together. I know he fought a lot for more camps for us and more fixtures for us.

And I think a lot of the time he was banging his head against a brick wall. But he just really emphasised the importance of conditioning, of diets and nutrition, if we were going to even compete with teams in and around us, never mind teams above us and start thinking about qualifying for major tournaments. He was caring but he was super professional, he was strict but he was still really kind and I think those things now if you look at the world's best coaches that's exactly how they would be described and I'm disappointed actually that Yarmou moved on before really Wales was given the recognition

it deserved from the media and from the FAW as well because he's by far one of the best coaches Wales have ever had and yeah, very grateful that he chucked me on with five minutes ago. I didn't have a clue what I was doing at that point. I don't think I touched the ball until Jarmu. Do you remember that I did score? Can you back me up? I remember you scored and I felt that I was disappointed that you are not still playing. I consider you still a young player, experienced young player, so that's definitely the case. I think it was an 8-1 win, wasn't it, Nia, against Bulgaria? It was. Yeah, it wasn't a dramatic winner it was just a little toe poke towards the end of the game but no I'm very grateful to Yama for all he's done for me but

also for Wales. Yeah Alex you yeah yeah Yama I just wanted to ask you you know you mentioned there you know about Nia and you'd like to see her still playing but how much pride I guess you feel seeing now the players the likes of Jess Fishlock, Sophie Engelang, Harrod James, getting that opportunity to represent Wales on the big stage and finally getting their chance to shine. How much kind of pride are you feeling seeing that now, having coached them in the really early stages of their career? I think that's a really good way to put it because I'm so proud for them. You always hope that the players you worked with, good players, that they would play, let's say, as long as the body allows

them. But seeing that so many good persons, so many good ex-players are, for instance, doing this commentary or having the role within the football, seeing the growth, having impact for the next generations to the future generations. That makes me so proud of all those great people that you've had a pleasure to meet during the journey. I think as well it's worth noting that it wasn't just the work that Yama did with us during training camps and how he kept tabs on us outside of camps as well.

He really encouraged us to put ourselves in the best environments possible. So as he mentioned, I think a big part of why Wales have been successful this year is there's more players than we've ever had playing in professional environments. And Yama was the first one to come in and really push us to seek those opportunities out. I know Hayley Lard for instance who is a real unsung hero for Wales and I'm sure we'll have a standout summer comfortable at the back and in

midfield more recently for Everton but an FA Cup winner with Manchester United as well. Jamal, didn't you send her out to Finland to chase some professional football? Yeah it was, I remember them I remember back in the early days also when the Women's Super League was in the early stages and they actually played summer football and then the winter football that was played in lower equivalents of English football. And I remember Hayley didn't have a club and then I contacted English football. And I remember Hayley didn't have a club and then I contacted the former women's national team coach in Finland and actually went to, she went to Kokkola, which is a coastal town 400 kilometers up from Helsinki. And, and she actually had a, had a good summer season there. They really, really liked her there. And I don't know whether the Michael Cheld, who used to coach women's national team,

actually 20 years ago, he was coaching Finland team first time in the women's Euro 2005 in England. He was the coach who was working with Hayley back then, and they were really pleased. They actually tried her as a centre back as well, whereas I, with a blind eye, thought of her as a centre-back as well, whereas I with the blind eye thought of her as a

midfield player. We've seen her do a bit of both now haven't we? Danny, I'm interested to bring you in on this conversation because you were playing for the men's side during the time that Jarmu was in charge of the women's. I just wonder your recollections of that time and how much you felt there was an interaction if at all with the women's side and where maybe the men's team viewed how the women were getting along in this journey of professionalization? Yeah I suppose it thinking back they probably there wasn't really it was very divided you know I think obviously the women's team, I don't think they even had a training ground

maybe at that point where they were going somewhere and training on a regular basis, maybe similar to what we were doing as the men. You know, that's kind of very different now. You look at the FAW headquarters up at the Vale of Good Morgan Hotel there, and you know, the training base is now there, and everybody kind of

gets to train there but back back then it was uh there was a divide real I suppose you know we never really kind of saw each other that much um you know and even on the men's side there were still a lot of things wrong on the men's side as well you know I can remember being many in many a camp and wasting a lot of time moaning and complaining about certain things, standards and professionalism and all these things. So even though at that point the men's side was getting more financially backed and stuff like that, there was still, the FAD, I think was still in a position where, I don't know, maybe if they wanted to do things, they really couldn't do things so much maybe there were people within the organization then

who weren't really forward-thinking enough weren't probably enough football thinking people in those high positions but but obviously with the likes of Yarmouk coming and kind of leading the way really and showing how kind of things should be done and that was kind of the start for change really. And it was a similar thing kind of on the men's side. When Mark Hughes came in as manager was a similar kind of thing where he tried to raise standards and get facilities better, get the staffing better, all these kind of things. So, so yeah, there

were there were kind of issues on both sides, really, but obviously, more so you hear the story with, you know, the women's side and what they've kind of had to go through to get to this point now but now we're in a kind of a very good place on both sides which is great to see. And Yarmou just finally then I assume you're going to be watching the action unfolding in Switzerland and keep more than half an eye on Wales but where do you see your position then in their journey, finally having qualified for a major tournament?

Do you look back and think, I was maybe the origin of that beginning? Well, you are, of course, first of all, you are very grateful that you had the experience. I mean, now when we can see that we are in the situation where the players have broke the glass ceiling and broke probably even stronger ceilings and the roofs to get through, you are just happy that that is done because of course it's like always, I look at that four years and I said when I was leaving that the most important thing is what happens next and I felt that people who came there, Jane, Jane Ludlow

and now Rian, they've actually continued to take the structure further, improve the things. But of course you are happy that you felt that you had some sort of impact. And as I think Nia said really nicely in the beginning, that you had an idea that what could be the direction where we should go. And then you just tried to keep that goal in your sight and try to make people understand that if we want to improve those are the things we need to do. And of course afterwards now looking at the achievements and looking at the progression and in particular seeing how the women's game has grown in general in Wales,

then you just feel really happy for the fact that you were in a small part of that progress. Well, Jarmu, I enjoyed the tournament and thanks so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. And all the best, Nia. It was lovely to see you. Thank you. Love you, Miss Hugh Jarmu. And for those listening along with us, you can't see, but they are literally waving at each other on the video call, which I really enjoyed. Welcome to the Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you

inside Formula One and Red Bull Racing like never before. And I'm Matt Magendie. And thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal with Red Bull Racing this season. This week, I'll be answering your questions and you can literally ask me anything. I think Matt will probably regret that. 2023 Dutch Grand Prix, I think it was practice, he crashed and he left one hand on the steering wheel and ended up breaking his wrist. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. one like never before by tuning into the Inside Track wherever you get your podcasts. It's the scandal that rocked Rugby Union to its core. The so-called Bloodgate scandal.

Tom Williams now receiving attention. It seems so clear that this wasn't real blood. It's out and out cheating. This is a story of lies and deception, conspiracies and cover-ups. There was terror that it could tear the house down. Courtroom drama and secret deals. So obviously a lie. And a human cost that changed lives and careers forever.

Dean Richards is found guilty and banned for three years. I'm Ross Kemp and this is Sports Strangers Cr, Bloodgate. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. Yarmou Matikaian and they're joining us here as we preview Wales heading into their first major tournament. Yarmou, the manager, the first full-time manager from 2010 to 2014. And we've had all these near misses coming with Yarmou, as we we mentioned with Jane Ludlow, Gemma Granger, it was Rhian Wilkinson near who finally got Wales over that line. She's been in charge only since February of last year we should say, she's Canadian, she has a lot of

strong links to Wales, we'll talk about them in a moment but just give us a sense of her as a person, as a character. Yeah I think it's an interesting one when we have opinions on coaches of teams that we watch on telly because we never really know what they're like behind closed doors and you know Dani can vouch for this as well. A coach can be one thing in front of the cameras and on the touch line and they can be very different behind closed doors but having watched her a lot on the touch line, spoken to the girls who've been part of all her camps and watched her in press conferences and in question-and-answer sessions that by the way she's she's

always very up for for attending and you know not all coaches are as are as open-door maybe as we are well concerned and the comms team at the FAW and she's more than happy to meet with journalists broadcasters to really give them a good insight into her ideas and what it's like in camp, which is hugely helpful. But it goes without saying she's extremely charismatic. She's a fantastic leader that comes through with everything she says.

She's very careful and intentional with everything that she says. She doesn't do anything with huge impulse, which is exactly what you want from a coach. It's such an emotional job. But you get the feeling that there's a really good balance of passion but also thought behind what she does I think she's very honest with the players I think she can be very direct in her feedback to them but you'll struggle to find a successful high-performance athlete who doesn't

need that yeah and I think the, it took her a couple of camps I think to get on board with the for us for them for her motive that the girls had come up with. They were sort of, they really owned their own tagline if you like in the camp led by the senior players like Jess Fishlock and Harrod James Turner and I think she even said recently I thought I understand what it meant to play for Wales and I probably came in with my own ideas a little bit too strongly. It took me a couple of camps, but now I think there's a real equilibrium between the playing staff and the coaching staff.

And I think it's showing on the pitch. That's so interesting, isn't it? So, Danny, hold that thought. We'll talk about that in a moment, but let's actually hear from Rhianne Wilkinson. She spoke with our reporter, Deletheth Lloyd at the Summit of Snowdon. If you missed this, this is last week where Wales announced the squad that would be going out to the Euros, Wilkinson squad. And rumour has it her and her squad literally scaled the mountain to get there. Oh, it's not a rumour. I've been telling everyone. I'm really proud of myself.

This is an incredible scenery, such a beautiful mountain and to get the opportunity to walk up here, to start your day doing that on your own before the excitement and the sort of festival atmosphere up here, I think it was nice for me to do that. And how excited do you and the rest of the squad feel now? Because this has been in the planning since December and now it's imminent, the tournament is almost upon us. How is everyone feeling? Good, I think the players are just really excited now to take the leap and we're fortunate that

we've got a training camp in Portugal where we can just be us and outside of Wales, away from families a bit, only in that they're as excited as everyone else. So this is just us and so I think that excitement is really going to hit when we step off the plane in Switzerland. And the fact that Wales women have qualified for a major tournament for the first time, does that bring with it pressure or is it all about grabbing the opportunity? There's pressure wherever you look but I do think opportunity outweighs it in every way. I think this team will always be remembered as the first but we've just got to make sure that they're not the last and that this tournament is an opportunity to get more

they're not the last and that this tournament is an opportunity to get more Welsh people, whatever age, whatever gender, across this nation excited about these women representing their country. And what is the ultimate aim? Because we know it's a difficult group, any group is in tournament football, the Netherlands, France, England. What would a good tournament look like for Wales? So I don't talk about results, I've been consistent with that. Because I think you could be the best statistical team, have all the possession, have all the shots and not win a game,

that's just football. But if you deliver consistent, courageous performances where we can look back and say we gave everything we had and we showed who we are as Wales, then we can be proud of ourselves. So that is the number one goal, that we can look back on this tournament and have no regrets because we were fearful. And is there one thing you're looking forward to the most in Switzerland? Is it walking out for the first time in Lucerne against the Netherlands or would it be something else? It could be that moment. I think there'll be a moment

where I look at this team and they realize, they really realize that their feet are on the ground in Switzerland and that they've achieved this thing, this historical moment for Wales. I don't know when it will be, might be Lucerne. It might be when we step onto the tarmac in Switzerland. I don't know, but I look forward to that moment. I don't know about you guys. For me, it's absolutely the cheese, obviously. It's going to be the highlight of Switzerland. Loads to get stuck into there, Danny, but I wanted to come to you first on what Nia was saying about the importance of, I guess, what it is to be Welsh and whether it's really important that your coach, and maybe especially if they are not Welsh, we know she has connections

through her family, but not, you know, born and bred Wales, that they understand that as well? Yeah, for sure. It's a big part of who we are, that kind of togetherness. Certainly, as I said, over the last 10, 12 years, that kind of whole connection between the fans and the players has become even more important. We're almost kind of as one now, I would would say and that hasn't always been the case for the men's game in particular. I think Rhian with her Welsh connection she understands what it is to be Welsh, how passionate we are, how together we are and I think she's come in and kind of really kind of bought into that first and foremost. And yes, I mean she's done something that no other manager has done. She's qualified us for

a major tournament and I think she came in at a good time as well. I think you know it was the right manager at the right time. You know we just spoke to the Yarmou obviously Jane Ludl who came in after her, Gemma Granger. They laid a lot of good foundations for Rhian to come in. You look at the player pool now as well, players playing full time now and playing at top WSL clubs and what have you. That has helped to improve things as well. And she's come in at the right time where everything was kind of ready, I suppose. You know, as a team, we'd be knocking on the door for the last

couple of qualification campaigns and weren't able to kind of get over the line. And she's kind of come in and, and done that job. So, yeah, I've been lucky enough to kind of meet her a couple of times and you know, everything that kind of near said, really, you know, she, she just, she gets what it is to be well. She gets how to motivate the players. She's very honest in her assessment. She's very level-headed. You watch her on the touch line, and she controls her emotions really well.

I spoke to her about that playoff game against Ireland and said to her how calm she looked on the touch line. And she was saying back to me that she definitely wasn't as calm as she looked. I was having kittens the last 10 minutes myself. she was saying back to me that she definitely wasn't as calm as she looked. I was having kittens the last 10 minutes myself. But she's also quite expressive as well isn't she on the touchline? Yeah, she can be. And she's very kind of supportive as well of the FAW,

the different things, the different kind of things that they support, different events she's willing to go when she speaks so well. And I think she has that respect from the players now you know when you qualify a team for a major tournament look I think she already had that respect anyway because she's won things in her career but I think that kind of bred that kind of belief into the players and once you've kind of done that and achieved that then then you've got the players kind of eating out of your hand really so so yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing how we kind of perform in the tournament now and you know like we've heard some of the players say, it's a big

monumental achievement for us to get to where we are now but it almost feels as well like this is just the beginning and you know I'm sure the players will be thinking that we're not just going there to make the numbers up, we want to actually go there and perform and show what we're all about. And she's been really hot on the mentality side, hasn't she, Alex, even bringing in a psychologist to work with the players? Yeah, massively. I think that's been a huge thing that we've seen with this group of players

since Rhian has come in is that shift in mentality, that belief that she's managed to instill in them that, you know, they can go out there and compete against higher ranked opposition. When she first came in she suspected that there was this kind of mental block that they were suffering with because they've come so close previously and almost made it almost reached that major tournament but not quite got over the line. So she brought in a mental performance coach to try and, you know, put that baggage to one side, make sure they put that baggage behind them and try and, you know, put that baggage to one side, make sure they put that baggage behind them. And I think, you know, she's clearly managed

to do that very successfully. And you can see that in the players, you know, their belief, like even when I speak to the players kind of post-match, there's just that belief that she's instilled in them. There's a real belief in the side that they can go out there and compete against the tougher opposition. I think that's going to be, you know, critical for them in this Euros campaign. And we saw it throughout the Nations Ligue that they've just competed in. Yeah, okay. The final two games, they kind of had those losses. But before that, they had some amazing performances. The two draws that they had against Sweden. And you're

nodding your head at me. They've proven to themselves that they can go out there and compete against higher rank opposition. And I think Rhian has been kind of a critical part of that in changing the mentality within this squad. And you can really see how in the players. You don't fluke a draw away in Gothenburg against the Swedes a couple of months before a major tournament. It's just not done.

And what I loved about that performance, I was fortunate enough to be there, was we actually dominated for large periods of that game it wasn't backs to the wall settle for a draw just kick it away and hope for the best the the Hannah Kane goal that she scored was the with the last kick of a 13-pass move from the goalkeeper so I think this is why we're so excited for that dreaded group is that we're really hoping that people think we are just a kick-and-hope team but she really has moved us on from that and the girls genuinely, if you speak to

them, they genuinely believe they can take points off anybody. Sweden are ranked fifth in the world, England are one above that in fourth. I know we'll talk about the group a little bit later on. Netherlands and France are in 10th and 11th. So that was huge for the girls' confidence, that result in Gothenburg. So how do we, sorry Alex, how do we describe them tactically then, Nia, because you look at the results this year and yes, you might pick out those two draws against Sweden and I'm not underestimating that, but they score few goals. They seem to be very solid at the back. Is that too simplistic a way to describe this Welsh side?

Not at all. And I think that's just the stage we're at in terms of personnel. I think we've come a huge way in getting more players playing at a better level than we've ever had. As Dani mentioned, so many of the girls are playing top flight football now. What they're not doing is starting every week for their clubs and scoring every week for their clubs. That is the difference at the minute for me between being a good international team and a fantastic international team. We're not quite doing that week in, week out. We're in the environment, but we're not always starting and we're not always scoring goals. But I think she's settled more recently on a five at the back. She's really utilising wing backs. That's the main way that we utilise the width on the pitch.

And if you can even hear her, especially in the quieter stadiums, you can hear her wanting the girls to shift it from side to side. She's really utilising almost like our technicians in the centre of the pitch. So the likes of Gemma Evans and Hayley Ladd, yes, they're defenders, but they're hugely comfortable on the ball. Hayley with the right foot, Gemma with the left foot. And she really uses them as pivot points to switch the play and get our wing backs involved. We've got, we're jam-packed full of talented midfielders, Sophie

Engel, Jess Fishlock, Rachel Rowe, Angharah James, so actually she tends to play a box midfield in hope of controlling the central area of the pitch. What happens sometimes then is if we've run out of gas through our wing backs we can become very narrow. That's the only thing, that might explain why we're pretty tough to break down because we are congested in the centre of the pitch but actually what we lack at times is good numbers high up the pitch and in wide areas as well. She aims to win the ball back quickly, she wants to play high energy. I love it when I see us press from the front because we tend to win it back early and then obviously we're closer to the opposition goal but it's an attractive brand of football

for sure. And it feels a shame maybe for fans coming in right now who just want to join for the tournament football near and then they see that Italy result the 4-1 loss which seems like a bit of an anomaly. It didn't matter Katie. Oh go on then tell me why it didn't matter. Did you see Jess Fishlock's goal? Right you've done my segue for me so this is the next thing I was going to talk about. Her goal, what 35 yards out, unbelievable, pings off the top of the crossbar into the goal. A moment of magic out of absolutely nowhere Danny. How important, how integral is that going to be for Wales? Yeah she's huge. One of the best sports people Wales have ever produced, Jess, is probably the best women's footballer Wales has ever produced. And she's our match winner. She's the one with that, the added bit of quality can produce those kind of magic moments,

as you saw in that Italy game. And I'm just so pleased for her. I'm just so pleased for her that she's going to be able to showcase her talents on a major tournament. We see so many great players that play this game, and they don't get the opportunity to play in major tournaments. So to see her there, to see Sophie Engel there as well in the squad is going to be huge. And she's going to be really important for us. We're a good team, as

Nia said, we've got a nice balance, we're very difficult to beat, that Welsh passion, we never know when we're kind of beaten, we always go right to the end and we're getting better in terms of with the ball. It has been a bit of a progression really, which started under Jemma Granger, where we've tried to become more of an attacking team, trying to get better in possession of the ball. That kind of steeliness and defensive kind of nice

is still there, but we are still a bit of a team that are trying to progress still. So hopefully it can all kind of come to fruition in Switzerland, but yeah, Jess is at the center of that and she's so, so important to progress still. So hopefully it can all kind of come to fruition in Switzerland but Jess is at the centre of that and she's so so important to the team. Does she have that talismanic quality Danny? I don't want to be that one that always compares it to the men but we've talked about Gareth Bale occupying that role for Wales for so long now he's held that mantle off. Jess Fischlok, I mean even if it wasn't in major tournament football, she is surely that player for the women.

Yeah, she is. You know, she's just capable of doing things that other players are not capable of doing. It's as simple as that. And it was yeah, it was a similar kind of feeling with Gareth Bale. If he walked into camp and he was fit and ready to go, then you kind of felt as a team that you could go out there and kind of beat anyone Because you know, he was one of the best players in the world who could just turn the game on its head So, you know, it's a similar kind of feeling with Jess as well when she's out there on the pitch She's capable of those magic kind of moments is her personality. So or the way she kind of leaves the team as well You know the rest of the team for sure kind of look up to her so I just hope that she's ready to go she's obviously had some kind of injury

problems and stuff like that and she kind of came back from the last camp and got some really important minutes and she's got some time now to really kind of work on her fitness and stuff they're out in Portugal at the minute so hopefully we can kind of have her 100% and ready to go. And if she's feeling that way and she's on the top of her game, then we've got a great opportunity of doing really well. I know someone else you wanted to talk about, Nia, was Kerry Holland, who is in brilliant form, isn't she, the Liverpool player?

Yeah, she is. 27 years of age and congratulations to her as well because she signed a new deal with her club Liverpool today and Dani and I were talking at the Italy match actually just about how she's probably our most in form player so yes Jess is and Rhian Wilkinson described her in the Welsh Assembly last week as one of the best players she's ever seen play the game so this is no disservice to Jess or the likes of Ingle who are in a class of their own, but Kerry Holland in the form she's in is so strong for us. I'll be disappointed if we have to play her at right wing back. She's so versatile that actually I think it's a detriment to the effect she can have on

the game. She's a brilliant wing back, but she's got such an engine that actually I'd love to see her higher up the pitch. She's so involved in everything good that Wales does. She doesn't mind a tackle. I was talking to Sophie Engel recently and she said whenever they look back at their GPS stats after training, her graph is just rockets above everybody else. The high speed running that she can get through compared to everybody else is almost like AI. I don't know what she's eating for breakfast, but if you just watch her performances off the ball, yeah could be Swiss cheese and chocolate maybe.

I'll give it a go and see how I get on but yeah she's certainly one to watch out in the Euros, Kerry Holland. Right so we've been putting it off for a little while guys, should we talk about the so-called group of death? So if you've missed this, Wales are alongside the former champions of the Netherlands, semi-finalist last time out France and the current holders, England. Who wants to take this one? Go on, yeah. Alex just said easy-peasy to me across the table. I mean, yeah, right.

But I suppose... We like being the underdogs. Wales like, you know, we like that underdogs tag. Obviously we've, we've, we've put up with it. Um, I think there's something quite, we quite like like being the underdog. Wales like, you know, we like that underdog tag. Obviously we've put up with it. I think there's something we quite like about being the underdogs. Craig Bellamy would disagree, but I like it. Danny, do you like it? Not anymore.

I used to. That's not us anymore. No, I think the way that you need to look at the term underdog is that there's no pressure on us going into a game to win it. That doesn't mean that you are super defensive, it doesn't mean that you shy away from your principles, it doesn't mean that you don't show your personality, but there's pressure on not just in these games for the other teams in the group to win that match, there's pressure on them to go all the way and win the tournament.

There's eyes on them everywhere, there's pressure on them, their managers are under serious pressure to win the whole thing and that's something that Wales haven't got to contend with. So I think you need to tap into the positives of being an underdog rather than the defeatist nature of it, would you say Alex? Yeah, and I think looking at the group, one of the key things I think, because we know it's going to be a tough group, it's not going to be easy, but I think one of the key things that they've worked on and they definitely will have looked at I think is not conceding early because it's something that they've really struggled with in the Nations League games in Nations League A. They conceded early in the opening

50 minutes, a four out of six of the Nations League A games and then conceded in the opening 50 minutes of either the first or second half in all six games. So it's something that they're wary of. It's something that Riam wary of. It's something that Rhean Wilkinson, I asked her about after that game against Italy and she said it's something that they were going to look at ahead of the tournament and it's something that they you know they're gonna have to be kind of really wary of and careful of because they're obviously they're going to be nervous going into

that first game against the Netherlands. There's no doubt about that. It's a huge stage. It's exciting but there's there's to be nerves. And I mean, Nia and Dani, you know that more than me having played, but it's something that they're going to have to be really careful about up against the likes of England, France and the Netherlands, because if you concede earlier against these sides, there's a risk then that, you know, it could just fall from there. Well, I'm interested in Dani and Nia, what you think about Rian Wilkinson saying things like, you know, we don't focus too much on the results, we focus on the performances. And yes, that is great getting a point off Sweden twice in a row in the Nations League. A brilliant

performance. You cannot deny it. But a point is not going to be enough at the Euros to be competing. I don't know. Oh, go on, tell me more. It could be a tight group. We've called this group the group of death, but if you look at all the groups, they're all difficult, I think. These are the best teams in Europe, so yes, it is a difficult group. Or perhaps I should rephrase it, it's playing for a point, and I'm not suggesting they did that last time,

but they certainly celebrated it. That can't be done. Because like I say, we're still progressing as a team and one of the things we need to do next now is start beating these types of teams and you can feel that we're kind of trending towards that but it's something we haven't quite been able to kind of do that. I think the Nations League games were great preparation now going into Switzerland because we played against some really good teams you know got some decent results without winning a game really but you can see that you know the

squad is improving the team is improving all the time and look it's about getting the game plan right when we're out in Switzerland. You know, these are difficult games. You know, Rhian will be formulating a game plan for each team, how we can maybe hurt the opposition, how we can stop the opposition scoring. You know, as we've mentioned there, it was a bit of a problem in the Nations League where it took us maybe going a goal down or 15, 20 minutes into the game before we really believed we could kind of go and hurt teams. So, you know, that will have to improve because when you're playing against top level teams, you know, if you give them

opportunities, you know, it's in the back of your net and it's very difficult kind of to come back because we don't score that many goals. So, yeah, I think that the belief will be there and, you know, all the pressure will be the pressure that the players are putting on themselves. I think, you know, as well as fans and people going to Switzerland, you know, maybe we're not expecting too much or putting any pressure on the team. But as players, they will be putting pressure on themselves. They will expect to go there and perform. And I don't think there'll be any fear factor in terms of who they're playing against. You know, all these players kind of play against each other. we can work out a lot of the players in the WSL so they all know each other

very well. And it's about the players and really formulating the right game plan for these games to for us to be successful, which is easier said than done. Well you mentioned the fans perspective there Danny, should we bring one in? Watching in the stands for every single group game is going to be Hayley Evans, who's been going to see Wales for over a decade now, including both legs of that playoff tie against the Republic of Ireland. Have you recovered from that yet? Higher, yeah. I mean, it doesn't sound like my voice has right now, but I genuinely... That sounds like she's still in Temple Bar to me.

Yeah, I might well be near. As long as it's back by next week we're fine. Yes, exactly. So Hayley, tell us your thoughts then on the group because we've just been discussing how Wales approach this and perhaps the mindset of the players. But from a fan's perspective, is it exciting to see them launched in at the deep end? Definitely, you know, and you know, as Danny was just saying, we've just come out of a Group A that was so competitive. I was at that game in Sweden, and honestly, we paid out of our skins that night. That result was fantastic. And I was also, the last time we were in Group A, I went out to the game in Germany, and we are night and day away from where we were then. So yeah, I think we're going to go into these games. Of course, we're going

to show the opposition respect, the respect that they deserve. These are some of the top teams in the world, you know. But Rhian Wilkinson has been talking a lot about moments and we do have the opportunity to just create those moments and to just get something out of something. But I genuinely think we're going to go there, we're going to compete and those girls are going to do the country proud. They already are. In your years of following them, Hayley, how much have you seen things change? Because that's kind of been the theme of this programme tonight is how rapidly it has all had to develop to get to this point. It's been massive, the change. I went to a friendly game in Italy in 2019, I think it was, and there were four of us there in the Wales end.

And they did give us an entire end as well, it was bonkers. And there were four of us. And then traveling over to Dublin, there's hundreds. And now we're gonna go out to Switzerland, there's thousands. And that just shows how far the game is going. I'd like to see attendance is improving at home if I'm brutally honest, but again we are so far from where we were a few years ago that it's fantastic and it's just going to go in the right direction and having this visibility and being in this tournament

and being at the top table is certainly going to help things grow from here. Hayley, do you think the team can take inspiration from what the men did in 2016 where nothing was really kind of expected of them? It was almost like, yeah, we're just happy to be in the tournament and obviously we ended up getting to a semi-final. Do you think there's things that the girls can kind of take from that? Yeah absolutely, I'd absolutely love that because I was out there in 2016 and you know we all went out there. Did you match your credit card? Yeah exactly, honestly it's just about recovered for Switzerland. But it was exactly that wasn't it? We just went out there and said oh we just want to hear the anthems and oh if we could just get a goal and it just it? We just went out there and said, oh, we just want to hear the anthems and if we could just get a goal.

And it just progressed and we just went out there and had the absolute time of our lives. And this is the first time we've actually had a major tournament since then. It's been in one country. So we, you know, as a fan base, we have the potential to recreate that again. And if we can recreate the spirit of 2016, who knows what can happen.

You got your bucket hat ready, Hayley? I have, yeah. I love that she's calling you gabs already. I don't even call him gabs. I think as well, looking at the teams in Wales' group, let's hope they do do a Euro 2016 and not a Qatar, because Wales' men kind of bomb that just because they were celebrating too much to get there, I think. But I also think, if you look at the Dutch, Mie de Mar was a focal point in their win of the tournament in 2017. She's not played all season.

England, not sure what's going on behind the scenes there. We've seen Earp leaving the squad. So I'm not sure what's going on behind the scenes there. We've seen Earp leaving the squad. So I'm not sure what's going on behind the scenes there. It's going to be very difficult for them to retain it. No one's done that since the Germans back in the noughties. And France are always the nearly women, aren't they? They're yet to even make a major final, never mind win one. So I don't know. We've had a couple of good performances against France as well, haven't we? Absolutely. Did you go to that game?

I went to the game at home, I didn't go to the away game. Yeah, exactly that, so actually I think- We did really well. We really did, and we drew to the Germans only last year, or to Gemma Granger, so I don't think it's as simple as looking where people are on paper, looking at the rankings, and thinking it's a done deal.

We saw England beat Belgium, who were ranked 20th in the world, I think it was 5-0, and then four days later lost 3-2 in the reverse fixture. So I think we can take points off anybody on our day, I think, and you're right, we're gonna have to ride our luck at times. But there will be a couple of moments where people can really write their names in headlines. Hayley, do you have expectations going into it? I just want to see us compete. It's fantastic that we've got there. I just want those girls to go out there and do themselves credit and to perform in the way that we know that they can and I'm sure they will and I've got every confidence in them that they're going to be

able to do that. What's it going to be like when you stand in that stadium for that opening game against the Netherlands and the national anthem plays, Hayley? Oh, pretty emotional. She says already, having a wobble. It's going to be so emotional. And, you know, for those of us that have been following the women's team for so long, just to be in the stand where we finally got to that tournament,

we've broken that glass ceiling, we've been knocking at the door for so long now and we finally made it, it's just going to be incredible. Hayley, we might not win the tournament, but we'll win the best Amphil Mummy for sure. Oh, 100%. Danny, how does it go again? How does it go? My hand goes by and I don't... Right, anyway. Moving on, moving on. We've got to preserve Hailey's voice, haven't we? Hailey, thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it and enjoy your time out in Switzerland. Lovely to meet you. See you soon. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Hailey Evans joining us, been watching Wales for over a decade. We've got former Wales players with us as well. Before we go, should we just talk expectations then? That's what I asked Hayley. Gabs, shall I go to you first? than anything is possible. I said a similar thing with the men in 2016 if we can get out of the group that would be a massive achievement and obviously we went

on to get to a semi-final so I'm gonna say exactly the same thing again and and hope the same thing happens. If we get out of the group I think that is an excellent achievement and then once you get into those kind of knockout rounds then kind of anything is possible and you know if you can get to that point then by that point the team is kind of full of confidence and believing you can kind of beat anyone so so let's get out of the group and go from there. And Alex and Nia just briefly then expectations for the tournament and I suppose what it might do for for women's football in Wales? Yeah hopefully I mean

we've got 20,000 girls playing every week at the minute compared to 100,000 boys, so it's still a long way to go, of course. But I think Hayley's right. We want to show our brand of football. If we can nick one win or a couple of draws off the teams in our group, regardless of whether that sends us through or not, I think they can be so extremely proud of that. I think we're going to be the third or fourth most supported nation out in Switzerland, which is unbelievable from the red wall. So yeah, just showing our personality

and putting Welsh football on the map. It's already been amazing for them to get there, but they'll wanna represent Wales well when they're there as well. Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, what they've done already is huge, but I think just showing they can compete and showing that real identity

that they've created for themselves, that they have that belief and they can go out there and compete against the best. I think like Hayley said, you want to see them put in those performances that we've seen that they're capable of. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. My thanks to Dani, to Nia and Alex for joining us and you'll be able to watch and listen to live coverage of the Women's Euros 2025 across the BBC, all starting from Wednesday, the 2nd of July. On BBC Sounds, this is Sport's Strangest Crimes.

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