Football Daily - Women's Euros: England & Wales look to bounce back
Episode Date: July 8, 2025Katie Smith presents a preview of England & Wales' crunch games at Euro 2025. Hear from England pair Sarina Wiegman and Alessia Russo, as well as Wales manager Rhian Wilkinson.Ellen White and Step...h Houghton join Katie as England prepare for a must-win game against The Netherlands after opening day defeat against France. Lionesses boss Wiegman insists England are up for the fight, while Russo assesses her chemistry with England's variety of attacking options.Also hear from Rivkah op het Veld on how the Dutch could hurt England, and get the latest on Wales ahead of their massive game against France.Timecodes: 01:00 MD-1 06:15 Sarina Wiegman interview 09:35 Lionesses "up for the fight" 13:40 Problem areas 21:30 Alessia Russo interview 25:50 England's attacking options 29:40 A must-win game for England 33:00 Dutch track w/ Rivkah op het Veld 40:10 Wales team bus incident & Rhian Wilkinson 43:45 Wales v France 47:00 Jess Fishlock interview5 Live commentaries coming up this week: Wed 1700 England v Netherlands on 5 Live Wed 2000 France v Wales on 5 Live Thu 2000 Norway v Switzerland on 5 Live
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The Football Daily Podcast with Katie Smith at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. Welcome along to the Football Daily podcast.
We are inside the Lezegren Stadion in Zurich,
the arena where England face their crucial must-win
second group game at the Euros against the Netherlands.
Wales then face France in St. Gallen.
So we'll get on to that in a bit,
but we're going to start with England.
All the media is done. The commitments are over.
We're going to hear from Serena Vigman, the boss in a little bit, Alessia Russo as
well. But with me to look ahead to these crucial crunch matches,
we've got former England skipper Steph Horton and England's all time record goal
scorer Ellen White in the stadium here. And for both of you,
it's your first look at this stadium.'ve just arrived yeah what do we think? It's lovely, the pitch is really nice so hopefully lots of
beautiful football from England and some lovely goals would be brilliant and then
everyone be happy so there we go. It's as simple as that I mean it brings about
weird feelings though do not think like match day minus one and we used to love
training at the stadium I think like getting a feel of the pitch and like
what it could be and you like the pitch and like what it could be
and you're like kind of manifesting what it might be tomorrow.
And yeah, I think to see from a different perspective is pretty cool.
But yeah, I think super excited.
I literally just said to Steph,
did you have to do all those interviews next day minus one?
You don't appreciate what I used to have to do before a game.
It's a lot.
Because it has changed a little bit now.
It seems like more, or Serena Vigman certainly gets more players involved,
but previously was it just the skipper doing it?
I think in tournaments like this,
it used to rotate, but generally,
you would always do the first one.
I was never called upon it, clearly.
I don't know what that is.
You were just concentrating on scoring goals,
that's all I'm saying.
So it actually did well that I took the hits,
so then you could go and score the back of the net.
I appreciate that, appreciate that.
But yeah, it is intense, and obviously the room's full. I think that's the biggest
difference from probably when we were playing maybe
going back to 2015 you probably would maybe find one or two whereas now it's
so full of English journalists especially trying to get all the
the kind of answers and all the stories ready ahead of the game tomorrow.
How different is it for you then being on the other side just emotions
wise Steph, do you get, I don't know, more nervous not being able to affect the game? Yeah I think
now especially after the last game I think now you know that it's a must-win game and you have
to go and perform and I think that control element's gone but ultimately you're sitting here
as an England fan and you want the girls to do well and I'm actually super confident I think
every time we've maybe not performed as well
this season, we've always come back with a big game
and there's no reason why the girls can't do it tomorrow.
That's something the players have certainly been picking up
on, Ellen, in the last couple of days.
Is this narrative around when our backs against the wall,
we find the answer, they've gone back to 2015.
You've already mentioned it there, Steph.
So just to lay out the picture, England have lost to France.
They've got Netherlands and Wales still to come.
In 2015, you were both playing in that game,
that opening round group game lost to France.
So when you think about that, Ellen,
and go back to that moment,
do you feel like the emotions are the same for you guys?
Do you feel like you've been through that,
what these players have right now?
Yeah, definitely.
I feel like we've been through it. and we came out the other side having,
you know, what we've got a bronze medal to show for it. So it can be done. And they've
got that experience. Obviously, Lucy has galvanized the group together and said that it can be
done. And I'm sure she said, probably said that it will be done as well. And I feel like you've got an amazing group
of talented individuals where I believe
their mentality will be, it's a final,
we're gonna give absolutely everything.
And we cannot come off this pitch and lose.
We will be on this pitch and we'll be winning
this game of football because that is the only ending
that this England team can have for this game
against the Netherlands.
So I think it is a great narrative in the sense that it has happened before
and it is possible to still remain in the tournament and go very far in the tournament
and to come out with something really positive as well.
Because we've seen it Steph with Argentina in the Men's World Cup,
we saw it with Spain in the Women's World Cup losses.
I suppose one thing that I was thinking about that not many people talked about with the 2015 example
is that this tournament is 16 teams.
So only two go through from the group.
In the World Cup, you've got an extra round.
So you have these, I think it's the four best place
third round, third place finishers.
We'll get there.
It's been a long day.
Yeah, it's been a long day.
So does that add an element even more of the pressure and the jeopardy this time?
Yeah, definitely.
There's a lot of more jeopardy in the sense of that it is you have to win or the possibility
of not going through is a little bit closer.
So I think that is the beauty of this European Championships.
And that's why that 2022 win was so special because there's so much jeopardy and you have to be at the races straight away and I think
in 2015 against France we played and we were never expected to win. France were a
class above us we had to try and do a game plan which was quite defensive and
you're trying to hang on for so long whereas even the girls the other night
against France you always think they're gonna come back into it it wasn't the
greatest performance and the girls have all come against France, you always think they're gonna come back into it and it wasn't the greatest performance
and the girls have all come out and said that
and us watching have been like,
this is not the England that we're used to seeing
in terms of dominating games,
but ultimately I think we have too much quality
and I think that is about in them forward areas,
I think we have a lot of quality that can come on,
impact games and have different scenarios
and cause Netherlands different challenges.
And I feel as though now I think knowing the girls
and how they work, and then Serena said it
in our press conference was, we've done all the analysis,
we've done what we need to get better at.
We've got a game plan ready ahead at Netherlands
and it's about executing that.
And honestly, I feel as though this squad is too strong
to be going out of such a big competition.
So we'll talk about what we think that game plan might be in just a minute.
But the other thing that the L'Inès have really been talking about in the last couple
of days to the media has been this need for a proper English performance.
They've spoken about it in the last few months as well when they pulled something out.
So they said they want that against the Netherlands.
Earlier, Ellen and I were speaking to Serena Wiegman and we asked what that meant and whether
that messaging had come directly from her.
No, this messaging comes from us together.
That's really who we want to be and of course what we want to do first of all is execute
our game plan in the best possible way.
And we haven't done that too well, said today.
I think it also had to do with what Franj did.
We like the first 50 minutes or the first 20 minutes we played really well scored a goal then we had another huge
chance and after that we became a bit sloppy we started to make not the right
decisions and then what for proper England what we then bring it back to
what's our plan work really hard stick together keep communicating and where
needed fight and that's what England
is.
And this is new territory for you obviously as a coach, first loss in the group stage,
have you approached these last three days any differently to what you would normally
do in a major competition?
No, no, it's of course yes that's a new situation, we also know that we're a very hard group
with top opponents but we don't change anything.
At the end of the day, you lost the game against also very good opponents,
and tomorrow we play against another very good opponent, but really, really good too.
And it's a final for us tomorrow, so we know what we have to do,
and we're going to do everything to win that game.
And you just said that it's a final for you. Is how you're looking at it's now essentially knockout football every game
is a must win. Yeah exactly and we've experienced that before so we know we
know how that is but then we bring it back to what is our game plan how are
we going to execute our game plan what's everyone's's task in this, and then work really hard and
communicate and play at our best and bring our strengths up. That's what we've been working
on. We were chatting about leadership, weren't we, Ellen, and wondering, Serena, if you had
felt there were any players that maybe surprised you, have been stepping up in that sort of
way? Well, what we did with the refuel, you know, what we said the months on to this
tournament, we have a New England, the team has been in transition, we have new players
and yes, what I've seen, like in the meetings, having conversations, asking players questions,
players stepped up and gave answers what their experience was, how they felt and how we can
improve and what we then have to do and that's just really good and it's not always that
someone steps up and everyone sees it but in the room yeah there were some very good
conversations. And just finally, Ellen's mentioned it there, knockout football
that's kind of where you find yourselves but England seem to be a team when
their backs against the wall they like knockout football they get the results
is that how you're going into this? Yeah of course you know what it also is like
everyone lives football and you do
everything when you you do everything to play play games like this it's so
exciting and yes it's intense and and yes it's really challenging but that's
also what we like otherwise we wouldn't be here so yes we're going out there
tomorrow and hope we're gonna show who we are. Good luck. Thank you. So that was
Serena Wiegman chatting to us
a little bit earlier.
Loads we could get into, Ellen.
She looked really happy to see you.
I've got to say, you were threatening
to bring your daughter along as well to try.
Keep it calm.
I was just trying to get her really calm
and get some really good answers from her
and hopefully my daughter might have helped.
But no, I feel like she did get quite relaxed
and really up for the fight, obviously.
They've done all the work now.
They've watched the game back.
They've done the analysis.
She's got her game plan in place.
They've been on the pitch.
And this is about England performing.
We know what their strengths are.
We know what Netherlands are good at and how we can exploit them at the same time.
But it is about this England team performing and executing her game plan
and showing that fight and desire, which we know that this England team can show.
It's just doing it on the pitch for 90 minutes because we saw that in glimpses,
didn't we, against France?
It's just whether they can sustain it for a significant period of time
against this Netherlands team.
It's interesting that I think sometimes football is is simple and I think we
didn't win enough battles against France in terms of their 1v1s and kind of
owning your opponent and I think that's something that we need to definitely do
against Netherlands. I think you have to be going on that pitch full of confidence
but also you've got to earn the right to play the football that we do and look
when we play the football and we play through the thirds and we get Kira Walsh
in the ball, we get our wingers in the ball,
we are the best in the world in terms of getting bodies
in the box, finishing.
But we have to be able to earn the right
to be able to play that type of football.
And I think it's quite interesting
that she's went back to the English way,
because I think against Netherlands,
it's going to be tough.
It's going to be congested, especially in central areas.
And I think the game plan is crucial, whatever that might be.
I think we have to be better on transitions. We all know that.
We've seen that from the game against France.
But you know what? She sounded confident.
Alessia did the press conference as well and sounded really confident in how she is.
And she's had a great season. So one game doesn't really change that.
Well, and that Englishness thing as well, when Serena said it's about fight isn't it?
I wonder is the thing that worried people maybe the most in that initial game was like you said
Steph that the individual battles being lost from players like Lucy Bronze but you just
we just haven't seen that happen Ellen.
No we are used to seeing that physicality but England coming on top of that.
And France, they were so good all around the pitch, physically on top of England,
but then also being so sharp and aggressive in the way that they pressed England.
And I feel like this England team has slightly evolved as well, hasn't it?
I feel like maybe when me and Steph were involved that the one thing that we always hung our hats on was no one out
battles us, no one overruns us physically. Did you call that Englishness
when you were playing? I don't know if we called it Englishness, it was just literally that was how...
Proper for you. Yeah it was just something that was instilled in us I feel and I
feel like we've almost evolved
where we've got so much technical ability in our team.
And I'm not saying we're not physical.
It's almost like Steph said,
you have to earn the right firstly
to play the technical way,
but you can't be physically dominated at the same time.
And we just didn't show any of that.
So I think it is like earning the right,
maybe going a little bit longer, stretching them, and then we we can play our football and then we can pass through the thirds.
I think football has generally changed. You look at men's and women's games in the sense
of a lot of it is tactical and there's a lot about playing out from the back, starting
with the goalkeeper. Who starts with the ball? Is it the centre-half, the goalkeeper? And
sometimes I think we go away from that, but ultimately football is played with passion
and energy and it's whatever team brings the most passion
the most energy come tomorrow and I think we've had so many amazing games
against Netherlands and they're full of world-class players as well so it's
going to be such an interesting battle but I really do think if we start really
bright like we did against France we get on top we score that early goal then we
can then play our football,
then we can be able to be a bit more freer. But up until then, you've got to protect your
goal and you've got to be okay, like we build off a clean sheet, we actually gain our confidence,
we get our connections better, we build more relationships and yeah, it's a new team like
Ellen said and people have got different experiences, but ultimately these girls know what it takes
to win a football game and that'll be no difference tomorrow. So if we're talking,
is it too strong a word to say, problem areas? Are we looking at areas that might
change for between what we saw from France to the Netherlands? Should we just
highlight some of those that maybe looked a little concerning and I think
maybe we start with left-back Steph,, Jess Carter down that left-hand side.
It was difficult to watch. I think at times she acknowledged it as well said it was a tough day at the office.
But when you look at some of the other options that Vigma might be able to go with,
Neve Charles, do we potentially look at deploying Alex Greenwood in a different position?
I think personally I would prefer Alex just to keep playing in her centre half role.
I think the way that she plays at Manchester City that is without a doubt her best position.
I think it probably would more likely be Niamh Charles that's going to come in for Jess.
You know what it is, it was a tough day at the office for Jess and it's great that she's actually come up and said actually it was really tough.
But I think there was a lot of things to go with that I think Ellen you'll probably maybe go into a bit more detail tomorrow
about the press and how the front three are pressing how the midfield then kind of are we
able to stop France playing through but also through the middle and I think that causes and
you know what she's playing against a fantastic player in Cascavino I think both of their wingers
for France were very very good and they were physical. I think we keep speaking about physicality, but ultimately they did things simple and they were
able to kind of maneuver Jess out of position. And sometimes you have days like that. I mean,
I had, I played left-back before and it's hard when you're right-footed and you're playing left-back.
And sometimes the only option that you do have is that ball into the middle and
wingers are going to test you inside and out. And it's about that team structure being really
certain so that Jess can be really confident to go 1v1. But what about potentially going to a back three
because we have seen Wigman do that before. Exactly we saw her do that in 2023 and it seemed
to work quite well. They've obviously reached the World Cup final. We've got great personnel
that could fit in that. It's just quite a drastic change for Serena to make isn't it?
But especially after just one game. Exactly but it calls for it because it's a
must-win game. If they don't win this game, a draw is not good
enough I don't think so they have to go out and win but does she give the
players that she started in the starting eleven an opportunity to write some
wrongs maybe as well in this game but I just I don't know. The stakes too high for
that though. I believe so a 3-5-2 might work in the sense that the Netherlands like Steph said
they play five in that midfield obviously similar to the way that France plays so it's going to be
very congested but we almost need some support in those central areas to be able to help those
passing lines can we get closer to the midfield? And if you're playing the two like it's going to
be harder for them to play through
their middle areas because obviously you can't really isolate the two. You have to bring
another player in to make a 3v2 or potentially a 4v2, then they're going to lose a number
out of the midfield. So I think if they did play that 3-5-2 in terms of England, I think
it allows us a little bit more balance, if I'm being honest. When we were speaking about
it today, do you bring Alex Greenwood on the left-hand
side of that three?
Do you maybe play Lauren Hemp as a wingback, which is potential?
Obviously, you probably maybe lose a little bit of her attacking fret, but she can do
both jobs.
So I think we've spoke about that transition in terms of from attack to defense.
Does that probably suit us a little bit better?
Maybe.
But also I think in terms of the passes that you can play over the top because Netherlands, and this is no disrespect to Wales, but they didn't
get tested against Wales. What can that back three do against an England front two off under the 10
running in advance? And what does that then mean for how England's set up in the midfield and where,
if anywhere, if she starts, do you put Lauren James?
Well, because for that first 50 minutes against France,
she was stunning, I think it was 39 seconds,
she almost was through, you know, sky-diving,
but 100%.
And she started in that central role,
but it felt at times, Ellen, like that then
showed the vulnerabilities defensively, her work off the ball, and left Stamway,
and Walsh perhaps more exposed than they should have been.
Yeah, exactly, and I think it also started
from that pressing line as well,
from not having that press set up,
and then the passing lines were quite easy,
and then we're just cutting straight through
the middle of the pitch.
So it's a potential that maybe Lauren Jaynes
maybe goes to her more natural
position of what she plays at Chelsea, maybe slightly on that left-hand side. Do you push
Lauren Hemp maybe up top with Alessi Russo or like what Steph said, maybe that wingback roll as well,
because then she can find those pockets of space. Because like you said, in those first 15, 20 minutes,
the pockets of space that she created, those combinations with Bethme, Alessi Russo, those
triangles that they created was beautiful to watch. There's no one.
She's definitely in the top three in this tournament. That's able to get on
the half turn and running defenses. I think especially the France looked a
bit scared. You look at the disallowed goal like that's because of love and
James. She picks up in an hour half. She turns and she runs and she attracts
three or four players. She actually even attracts the center half to come out
to allow the back four to narrow. And that's where we scored.
Well, it wasn't a goal, but yeah, like that's what she creates.
Is that a little bit of fear in the defence?
And I think for me, I think we're all a bit surprised that she started against France.
I think we, the journey that she's been on to get to this tournament,
I think you're thinking when you haven't played that much,
but you're probably going to be coming on and being a massive impact for this England team because she is so crucial to us
being successful because of the qualities that she has.
And then obviously if she is in that maybe left-hand side
role, maybe, then it opens up obviously the 10 for maybe
an Ella Toon, who we know scores amazing goals
and contributes a lot for England.
Or someone like Grace Clinton who has that physicality
and puts a tackle in.
The first tackle in yellow card when Ella Toot,
that was the first big tackle we saw when she came on.
I sat there going, thank you, someone put a tackle in.
That was a frustration as well.
So we need that physicality and what Steph said,
the passion and the desire.
So maybe it opens up that tent for maybe a Grace or an Ella.
Well, and you were also talking,
Ellen, about leadership and how you felt, well, I don't want to put words
in your mouth, but that it was a little bit quiet
on the pitch amongst those players
that maybe should have been saying more, standing up more.
Yeah, I've spoken to a couple of people
that were literally pitch side
and said that it was quite quiet.
And it's really tricky because if you're not having
the best game, it's not going your way, you tend to just sort out yourself.
But when you are a leader, you have to put yourself to one side and try and do absolutely
anything and hang your hat and working hard and running.
But then you have to support everyone around you.
So I feel like they've obviously had conversations and it's about communicating and helping one
other, being a team, being a family and pushing each other.
Because if you see your mate fall down
You're dragging them straight up if you see them miss a tackle you're straight over there covering them
So it's just about that togetherness and I think that is the English way
Yeah, and that's been shown for how many years now and I think not even just the the 2022 win
I think it's been God before we got into the England squad
It's like okay
We are a team and no matter what if your mate's struggling you do pick them back up and if they get tackled by
someone you make sure you go and get them back for them and that kind of sort of mentality and
I think for me look this is a new group this is you're missing big characters which has been
spoken about previously towards the tournament and I think for me it's that in-game leadership
I think necessarily all the talk can be done
before a game, after a game,
and that's when the pressure is on
and the sense of like you've got time to think
about the messages that you want to deliver.
It's when it gets a little bit tough out there
and maybe we go one-nil against Netherlands.
It's like, okay, like you've got 10 minutes to go.
What do we do?
What is our game plan?
How are you going to kind of communicate that?
And that's not just on Leah to do that.
That is absolutely everybody.
And I think most importantly,
it's about everybody focusing on their performance
and how they can contribute,
not only just on the pitch, but off the pitch as well.
Well, we tried to get a bit of a sense of the mood
in the camp as it just starts raining here in Zurich.
So hopefully that's not a reflection
on how it's all going to go.
So Ellen and I, a little bit earlier,
spoke to England's number nine, Alessia Russo. And we started off by talking about how it's all going to go. So Ellen and I a little bit earlier spoke to England's number nine Alessia Russo and we started off by talking about how everyone's feeling following
that defeat against France.
It's been good. Obviously after the game lots of disappointments but then going into the
last couple days it's been more excitement to get back on the pitch. People have been
really focused in training and we were really honest and open in our debrief after the game
as well. So yeah, I think most importantly, people are looking forward to having another
game tomorrow night.
We've reunited your strikers union from 2022 as well.
Obviously I feel like you're now England's number nine. What's the role like for you
now with obviously maybe taking Aggie and Michelle and doing shooting together? Have
you got that relationship kind of on and off the pitch as well?
Yeah, obviously spend a lot of time together at the end doing extras and things like that
and they're both world-class talents and have so much potential. I think you saw it from
Mish the other night when she came on and changed the game and yeah, I love playing
with all our forwards and how everyone's so different as well.
We have so many different threats going forward
and different styles of play.
So yeah, they're great and they're both great girls as well.
I love being their teammate as well off the pitch
and they've got so much potential.
And like analysis wise, say looking at the France game,
probably not as many opportunities as you would like,
obviously the disallowed goal.
Is that something you've kind of looked at?
Analysis may be spoken with the wide players, how we can create more opportunities as you would have liked, obviously the disallowed goal, is that something you've kind of looked at, analysis maybe spoken with the wide players, how we
can create more opportunities for you going forward, obviously you know Daphne very well
in goal for Neverland as well, is that something that you're consciously thinking about?
Yeah, we talked a lot after the game, all over the pitch, but ultimately we want to
score as well. So I think we have so many different ways we can create and set up attacks and so many different players that can do it as well
So I think yeah, there's lots more to come from this team and these players
So yeah, we've been working hard and on a match day minus one we get to do even more
Yeah, we're allowed extras on a minus one when we're not managed with our minutes out there. So, yeah, it's a good laugh and people just enjoy themselves.
As you know, Erlen, when you do finish in, even the defenders get involved as well
and just has a bit of a good time. So, yeah, that was fun today.
That's what needed as well, I feel like. Obviously, that loss, putting it behind you,
having a bit of fun, you need that to then take that into the game, obviously.
Yeah, for sure.
I think sometimes when these tournaments come around and things get super serious,
you can forget that at times.
So I think doing little things like that as a team at the end of training is just
a moment that we can enjoy and just get some reps with the keepers.
Best of luck tomorrow.
Thank you.
So that was England's number nine, Alessi Russo and
What she was saying to you Ellen about matchday minus one you were like nodding your head like yeah full relate there
the shooting
Well, I feel like there's so many restrictions now with the GPS and loading that matchday minus one is just like you're waiting for that
Because it means that you're let loose and Steph could join in
and shoot it as well.
But yeah, it gives you an opportunity
to have a bit of fun and have some shooting practice.
And I feel like you need this in major tournaments
where it's very serious a lot of the time.
You're here for one thing,
and one thing only is to win football matches.
But you need that time
just to have a little bit of a switch-up, a little bit of fun, a little bit of togetherness,
and match day minus one is the perfect session for that. Yeah, because you don't really do too
much tactical work, so it's like about just getting back on the balls, a little bit of high
tempo stuff, and set pieces generally, and obviously after set pieces a lot of girls are
coming kick up football, and that's how it goes.
And Ellen was definitely always one where she's wanting
to shoot, I'd be doing my free kicks.
And they're like, Steph and Ellen,
you've got to go back in now.
One more, one more, one more.
It's like your mom and dad going,
come on, your time for your tea.
But in all seriousness, like in tournament football,
it is about that balance.
And I think as an individual, you
know what you need to get ready for a game.
And by the sounds that for less, it's about getting that repetition of practicing different
shots from different areas different angles and also when you get the team
involved it is a bit of banter and normally if it's defenders v strikers
it's obviously carrying on until the next few days isn't it so yeah all good
fun. Who wins? It normally is. So going into her role then against France, Ellen, she looked quite isolated at times.
Then again, she had the goal ruled out for one of the most marginal offsides you've probably
ever seen in your life and then was involved in that game changing tackle that was allowed,
VAR reviewed it, but that second goal stood for France. So where do you see her go next now into the Netherlands game?
I think not a lot changes for Alessia. She put herself in a beautiful position
where she scored obviously the goal that was disallowed, perfect in the six yard
box, and it's just more of the same. And I said to her in the interview,
is the conversations with obviously the wide
players because she didn't get many opportunities and they weren't creating enough for her.
And she's a world-class striker and her best attributes are in and around the 18-yard box,
in the six-yard box, up against the defender. She has a beautiful spin turn. She has a lovely
technique and she scores goals for England. So it's about how can we put her in a great position and deliver her the right ball for
her to score a goal.
She was working so hard for the team.
She was doing absolutely everything.
I've been there.
It's so hard to do.
But you can't fault her endeavor and enthusiasm and her mentality to obviously want to work
as hard as she can
in an England shirt.
What about Steph putting someone alongside her? Because it's actually a question Ellen,
she got from pretty much every broadcaster and she was very diplomatic as she always
is, says I like playing with everyone, I also like playing the number nine role. But actually
when Michelle Ajiman came on and she was only given a few minutes to make an impact She really did. I'm just from like a centre-half point of view
I think it gives you something else to think about when you have two strikers and
Obviously tomorrow, Netherlands will have three centre-halves
But that actually makes it even harder because there's probably not clarity on who's going with who whereas if you're 1v1
It's like that's my player and I thinkessia, she can do everything as a striker.
She was similar to Ella in the sense of,
she'll work hard, she'll press,
but when it came to getting on the ball,
she could drop deeper,
but also could do the runs in behind.
And I think she enjoys playing with someone else
because she's able to mix up a game a little bit.
She can come and drop deeper, get on the ball,
get on the half turn, legal play,
but also if you've got someone else running in behind
and helping you do that job, it creates havoc for defenders. So I think she was
very clever in how she answered the question, but ultimately I think Alessia
against France, she did everything that she could possibly do without the
limited service that she had. Is it a case of Ellen bringing on Ajumang again
against the Netherlands? Do you look at someone like Anaghi Beaver-Jones? Is it going to be, do you think, a direct swap potentially
later in the game? We didn't see that. I think a few people surprised by that,
potentially against France, but what kind of player do you think is required in
that striking position against the Dutch? Well we obviously haven't seen
Michelle Ajeman for a significant period of of time so I would be surprised if she
did start it would be amazing to see you know her physicality, her endeavor, her technique.
So if it was someone up top with Alessia it would be more likely, I don't know because this could be
completely wrong, it might be someone more like a Lauren Hemp or an Aggie Beaver Jones or even like an L
Toon or someone like that and then a German coming on later on in the game and having that maybe having causing havoc and
Hopefully we don't need that
But having that type of impact
Unless you're so good that she can drop so deep and get the ball so she can always play a false nine as well
So there's so many options that Serena has got, which is really exciting.
It's just what she actually picks is what I'm most excited to kind of find out
tomorrow, really.
And I suppose just finally then I just wanted to put something that Georgia
Stamway has said this week that I think it was so honest Steph to the media.
She said someone asked her, you know,
are you facing this reality that you could be out the tournament by the end of match day two? And she said, yeah,
that's the reality. If we're not good enough to win, then we don't deserve to be in the
tournament. And a few people actually gasped because I think you don't often hear players
that blunt. But is that true? Do England not deserve to be here if it all goes wrong tomorrow?
I think fingers crossed it doesn't go wrong first and foremost because I think we
deserve to be fighting for trophies like this every single tournament year and
but Georgia is Georgia I think obviously haven't played with her for a long long
time at Manchester City and at England I think that's as blunt as you can get and
I think sometimes you can be maybe be at peace at that if that's as blunt as you can get. And I think sometimes you can maybe be at peace at that
if that's the actual scenario and the ending to that.
But I honestly don't believe that that'll be the scenario.
I'm sitting here and I'm looking at this pitch
and I'm thinking, we have more than enough quality
to be able to win this game.
And I think we should have confidence on past experience,
not just over the last year,
but years where we've had to come back,
we've had to fight, we've had to bring out big performances.
And I look at our squad and I think we have big game players.
And in comparison to the Netherlands, I think we have a lot more.
I was thinking about that group and just the quality of group D.
It's phenomenal.
So if we aren't able to obviously beat the Netherlands,
you've got to look at yourselves and be like,
we've been beaten by some phenomenal world class teams.
And it is a real, real challenge to get out of that group.
And it's a real shame that all three aren't able to progress.
But at the end of the day, only two can go through in a European
championship, and that is the reality.
And I wonder if the worst has happened now.
They have lost. We've talked about it for so long.
It's now happened.
Does it just free you up?
To be honest, I think now it's like they probably
couldn't have played any worse in the first game,
in a European Championship World Cup.
Like, it's a tough game, but that's credit to France.
I don't think it was necessarily the way that we played.
I think that France actually really stifled us
and stopped doing the things that we love to do, which is playing through the third. So they
really pressed us aggressively. But I think for me that mentality now is you probably
have a little bit more freedom to go and play them and just to kind of work as hard as you
possibly can, stick together and show the qualities that we can show.
Five Live has the perfect lineup of podcasts to accompany the Euros.
Get all the latest analysis, interviews and debate from Switzerland in the Football Daily
podcast.
We have them experienced players that have experienced winning with England.
That Welsh passion, we never know when we're beaten.
Hello, I'm Maisie Adam.
And I am Susie Ruffall.
And together we host the women's football podcast, Big Kick Energy.
The award winning. Oh, yes award-winning
Yes, very much and join lioness is Ella tune and unless you're Russo in the toony and Russo podcast
I know I'll take you for your hindi
Take the euros with you this summer search women's euros on the BBC Sounds app
The football daily podcast with Katie Smith at UEFA Women's Euro 2025.
So I've sent Ellen and Steph off to wait in the rain for their taxi, so fingers crossed
for them.
And we're going to look at the Dutch perspective now, England against the Netherlands coming
up on Wednesday.
And we've got Rivka Opetveldt with us, Dutch journalist who's just literally come over
to our position here from the Dutch press conference.
So just hearing from-
I ran through the rain for you.
That is very kind, thank you.
We were saying how English this atmosphere is, you know?
Do the Dutch like playing in the rain?
Yeah, they do, they're used to it
and everyone plays in England,
so I think everyone's on their best tomorrow.
You make some very valid points there.
Should we talk about the press conference then,
in terms of any major news lines?
So it was Andreas Jonker, the head coach.
The context here being Rivke,
it was quite fiery, the first press conference.
So do you wanna just take us back
and explain what happened there?
Yeah, of course.
So last week, a couple of days before the game against Wales,
Andries Jonker told us in our NOS podcast that he considered quitting as a national team coach.
And he did this on matchday minus two, so that brought about quite some emotions everywhere.
The press conference was the day after and everyone asked him about it and it got on
further and further until someone, a journalist from a Dutch newspaper, asked him a question that
he didn't like and it got quite fiery in a bad atmosphere. So it was a very interesting
press conference last time and I think it was a lot more quiet and relaxed today.
And I suppose helped by the fact that Netherlands have got off to the perfect start at the Euro.
So 3-0 win over Wales and I suppose leaning on what you've just said then it doesn't feel
like any of that outside noise affected the performance on the pitch. I mean
obviously we don't know what actually went on into the in the squad but it
looks like they were able to tune everything out and obviously a 3-0 yeah
that's that's the perfect start for anyone I think it gave them a lot of
confidence it really gave them a boost and I, yeah, that's the perfect start for anyone. I think it gave them a lot of confidence.
It really gave them a boost.
And I think they needed that because it was a tough couple
of weeks and months before the Euros.
And I think it gave them the confidence to actually feel
like they might win this tomorrow.
A tricky build up for the Netherlands leading
into this tournament.
And we've mentioned the manager, but in terms of results,
so a 1-1 draw with Scotland, a 4-0 loss to Germany,
then a couple of wins against Austria.
So did it feel like you weren't quite sure
what form this team were in?
And then you throw in the likes of Viviane Miedema,
who'd just come back from injury.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, just like in the English squad,
there's a lot of question marks surrounding fitness
of players, injuries, game time, minutes.
And I think the last couple of months have been tough and then if you
go into the Euros with these results against Germany and Scotland, especially Scotland was
a really tough draw against a lesser opponent with all due respect. Yeah, I think it gave a lot of
concerns and you have to believe that the players also feel that concern. So I think the 3-0 against Wales really showed them
that they still got this.
And the coach has done a lot with minutes.
He's always said the Euros are the most important thing.
So you can see what we do now,
but you have to actually ask the questions
and see how we're actually doing on the 5th of July.
Well, they won 3-0.
It's pretty much must win for England tomorrow
if they are to have any chance of progressing through. How are the Netherlands viewing this
game against England? It can go both ways, I think. You could see it as a huge pro that
England has to do it. There's a lot of pressure on the English side, I think more than on
the Dutch side, also as reigning champions. On the other hand, I also just talked to Viv Miedema and I think you can also see it the other
way around, so it could also be a huge con because if the English actually get so fired up, they could
also completely destroy the Dutch team. So it's very difficult to look at which way this is going
to go, but I think mentally it's been an easier week for the Netherlands than for England.
is going to go but I think mentally it's been an easier week for the Netherlands than for England.
You've touched on how many of the players know each other already, the likes of Van Domslaar, in goal, Miedemaar plays for City, Gilles Roos has just left. So does that play into any sort of
advantage for either side? It's so difficult because I just asked all of them, I asked Alessia
Russo, Serena Wichman, I asked Viviane Miedema, André Jonker,
but the fact that they all know everything about each other
also kind of cancels it out, doesn't it?
So yes, obviously they're gonna use that intel.
They talk about it a lot, they know each other.
I think seven players of the starting lineup
of the Netherlands last game have played in the WSL
last year, but you could see it as a cancellation of both sides.
And they know each other so well that there's not really much room for surprises.
It's really the best team wins.
Where do the main threats come from in the Dutch side?
I think if you look at the positives, it's that they have a huge amount of world-class players in the forward and midfield area.
Especially if everyone's fit. We don't really know about Lienet Berestein really.
It looks like she won't be able to start tomorrow, so that would be too bad.
But if you look at the amount of players that the Dutch team has over there with
Pelova, Roort, Miedema, Van de Donk, Groene, you can keep on naming names.
Kapteijn obviously, who's had a huge season at Chelsea, that's incredible.
But then if you look at the backing four in this case, I think that's a little bit of
the weakness of the Dutch side.
Defensively they are less strong than offensively in my opinion.
The other narrative around this game is of course Serena Vigman being the former manager of the Netherlands,
taking them to European victory.
She now coaches for England.
We've added a new part to the story this time around
in that her assistant coach, Aarun Veerang,
is going to the Netherlands after this tournament.
He becomes the head coach.
What part does that play, if any?
I mean, if you ask them they obviously say
we don't want to talk about this until after the Euros. I think that once the
game starts you kind of put that aside. I do believe in their professionalism both
from our assistants who will be your assistants after the summer as well as
Arjen Vueling. I do believe that it doesn't really get in your head and if
anything I think you're more motivated because R.J. Villeuwen probably wants to show the Netherlands that they took the right coach
and same goes for our two assistants.
So I think it won't play a role once the game has started but obviously it's a really interesting story.
And what's the general feeling then coming out of the Netherlands heading in
potentially able to cause a massive upset against the
defending champions?
Yeah, I think expectations were really low in this group of death and the fact that England
lost in a tough game and the fact that the Netherlands actually played a really decent
game even though it's against a very different opponent, it actually gives some hope.
I think this Netherlands squad is able to beat the English team
And I don't think I would have said that a couple months ago
But I think it's gonna be a really tight game.
Rivka, thank you so much for joining us
Let's hope the rain keeps pouring for both of our sakes and we'll see you on the other side. See you there
Let's focus then on the other home nation in action on Wednesday. So Wales play a crucial game against France.
It's the other group D match.
We're gonna hear from Jess Fishlock shortly,
but first let's get some reaction to the news earlier today
that the Wales team bus was involved in a traffic incident
on its way to training.
Ailey Barber and Danny Gabadon have more for us on that
after we hear from the Wales manager, Rhian Wilkinson.
Yeah, so this is really developing right now. so we're just trying to be as clear and
transparent as possible. I think everyone from all the reports is, everyone's okay.
Our priority is just to get them all together and away from the scene and then reassess.
We've got great staff and we've got really good support for them and we'll be checking
in just to make sure that they continue to be okay and also and just as
importantly I believe the other car involved I think everyone is is okay
there as well so when we know I'm sure we'll be letting everyone know.
Needless to say not ideal preparation but as you say everyone okay the main
thing no training today now do you you think that's going to affect things
or is it a kind of,
football's very secondary at the moment?
Yeah, I think football is secondary.
And I think, yes, we are shaken just because we don't know.
We're away from the team right now.
So they've had to experience that,
but equally we have great group
and I've been assured everyone's fine.
You know, we've practiced for the unexpected, I
think that's what we can call this and yeah football is secondary but equally
we'll check back in, make sure everyone is you know in a good spot and
then we'll start working towards football again after that.
That's Rhianne Wilkinson speaking today at the press conference here in St.
Gallen ahead of Wales's really tough test against France and you could tell and see from from her and from Captain
Anrad James that they were shaken up they were in a separate vehicle to the
bus that was involved in the crash but always very worrying to hear that
that your teammates and your players have been involved in something like
this and and they were obviously shaken up and I'm sure the players in the bus as well
would have been shaken up and they decided not to train here at the
stadium today they instead went back to their training base got everybody
together and will train later on today back at the base. Danny listen, the one
thing that is really important is that everybody is okay and from what what Rhian said during the press conference, that is the case
and in the bus and also in the car that was involved.
But it's a scary moment for the team.
And it will be something that as a group of players,
they will need to process themselves tonight as well ahead of this huge game tomorrow.
Yeah, they will not.
Ideal preparation, obviously.
We certainly weren't expecting that news, obviously, when we got to the press conference, but look, it's happened. Ideal preparation obviously. We certainly weren't expecting that news
obviously when we got to the press conference but look it's happened, it's not ideal. Yes,
something like that can maybe throw preparation off a little bit. As a player you're used
to routine, you don't really expect maybe something like that to happen so when it does
it can be a bit of a shock. Everybody kind of deals with these kind of situations
differently as well as a player.
So obviously the main news, the positive news
is that obviously everybody's okay.
The fact that they're able to kind of still train today
a little bit later, obviously hints to everyone
kind of being okay.
And then you kind of hope maybe the preparation
hasn't been affected too much.
But yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, it was not the news we were expecting to get, but great that everybody
is OK and hopefully that won't throw anything off too much for why it's a really important
game tomorrow.
We are sitting here in the stadium in St Gallen, another beautiful enclosed ball here, compact,
stands close to the pitch. Any disadvantage at all to the players not having had a little
chance to see what the dressing room looks like, see what the pitch feels like? Because
France will train here.
Yeah, quite possibly. Obviously, you know, if they had the chance to kind of come here
today, you are kind of, you know, looking around training in an empty stadium. That's
very different to tomorrow when this will be packed. There are certain players who have different kind of routines. Some
players might like getting a feel of the stadium kind of the day before. There'll be other
players that are not too bothered about it really. Everybody kind of tends to have their
different routines with it. So probably not ideal. I think you would like to obviously
get used to your surroundings. Certainly me as a
player I like to kind of have a little look at the pitch and maybe go through some scenarios in my
head that are going to play out the next day, get a feel of your surroundings but they've not been
able to do that. So it is what it is a little bit and hopefully that won't affect too much going into
tomorrow. But I think the fact that they're able to maybe get a session in tonight is going to be a positive thing as well because we're obviously
so close to the game and every detail is so important going into the game tomorrow.
Particularly when you play a team like France who have started this tournament sensationally
with that win against England. Probably in what we've seen in that opening game, the
strongest team in this group at the moment after the first game. What do Wales do tomorrow?
I don't know. Do you want the truth, Hayley? Do you want the truth?
It's going to be a difficult one. I think if you look at the back of the Netherlands performance,
they have to be better in every single department. It's as simple as that. I thought defensively we weren't as solid
as we normally look. I think we gave up a lot of chances in that game. Obviously it
was 3-0, it could have been a lot more. In terms of on the ball, I think we need to show
more quality, we need to be braver, we need to take a bit more responsibility. In terms
of then creating chances, we
didn't have a shot on goal did we in the game.
We have to be better in that.
I think in terms of our counter-attack, can we be a bit braver?
Can the team get more bodies up the pitch?
We find it very difficult when we got the ball back to retain possession, to get players
up in support and obviously cause the Netherlands problems. It's going to to be a very difficult game again. Obviously France look very good against
England. They're a different type of team to the Netherlands. You look at the pace and
the power of the athleticism they have in their team. It's going to be very difficult.
So but hopefully there's been some learning from the first game. Hopefully the players
are a bit more settled now that first game. It was so emotional. It meant so much to the players in so many ways.
Hopefully now they feel maybe, I wouldn't say relief,
but they know what to expect a little bit more.
And maybe they'll play with a bit more freedom,
a bit more confidence coming to the second game.
And they're going to have to because this for this France team
are looking very formidable at the moment.
When you come into these games, you need experience.
And we'll certainly do have that in the form of Jess Fishlock.
So let's get her thoughts ahead of this huge second group match.
I think honestly, the biggest kind of message is,
you know, not to dwell too much on the game and the loss.
I think we really need to kind of take what we need to take from it
and move forward
and kind of throw the rest in the bin.
I think that's my favorite saying all the time
is take what you need to take and throw the rest in the bin.
Like, it's not gonna help you.
And if it's not gonna help you, it's just gonna hurt you.
And so for us, it is kind of just accepting the game
for what it was,
learning from it, moving forward,
and really just kind of celebrating
the key moments in the game.
And sometimes it's only small moments in the game
that can give you so much energy,
the small wins that can really kind of galvanize you,
and understanding what that looks like in
the French game, what is a small win, how can that give us energy, where can we kind
of keep going forward and I think that's probably my biggest message is the game's happened,
it's done, it's gone, we have another one, we've got to get together. We've got to move forward.
And, you know, I'll keep saying, like, I know this group and I know that we will be okay. I'm not worried about that. Jess Fishlock there speaking to Carl Roberts for even more on Wales
ahead of their massive game against France on Wednesday. You can check out the Feast of Football podcast that is on BBC Sounds for you.
But that is it from us on this episode of the Football Daily podcast.
On the next one we'll have all the reaction to that Lionesses game against the Netherlands.