Football Daily - Women's Euros: Lauren James kickstarts England's tournament

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Katie Smith presents reaction as a Lauren James brace helps the Lionesses record their first win of UEFA Women's Euro 2025. She's joined by Vicki Sparks, Nikita Parris and Karen Bardsley as England defeat the Netherlands 4-0 in Zurich. Also hear interviews with Sarina Wiegman, Jess Carter and Ella Toone. Meanwhile, Eilidh Barbour and Danny Gabbidon react after Wales create history by scoring their first ever goal at an international tournament, despite losing 4-1 to France. Plus, we hear from a very proud Rhian Wilkinson.TIMECODES 01:00 England 4-0 Netherlands analysis 14:55 Ella Toone interview 25:40 Sarina Wiegman interview 30:41 France 4-1 Wales analysis 41:37 Rhian Wilkinson interview5 Live/BBC Sounds commentaries this week:Thursday: Switzerland v Finland (8pm) - 5 Live Friday: Spain v Italy (8pm) - 5 Live Saturday: Germany v Sweden (8pm) - 5 Live Sunday: England v Wales (8pm) - 5 Live

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. deal ratings and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca. Cargurus.ca. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily podcast with Katie Smith at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily podcast. On the night that England kickstarted their Euros campaign in Switzerland by demolishing the Netherlands. But Wales have been left on the brink of elimination after a 4-1 defeat to France. So England's 4-0 win means they'll qualify for the knockout stages

if they can beat Wales in their final group game on Sunday. We're going to join Ailey Barber and Danny Gabadon shortly in St Gallen for reaction to Wales' defeat. But first, we start in Zurich where two goals from Lauren James inspired England's first win in the tournament. So we can hear from former England international Karen Bardsley, Brighton in England forward Nikita Paris alongside our commentator Vicky Sparks. Well they really, really needed a response didn't they England after the poor performance in their opener against France where they became the first reigning European champions to lose their opening match at the next Women's Euros. All the expectation, all the pressure was on them and my word,

didn't they rise to the occasion. Led by a simply delightful performance from Lauren James. She was swapped out to the right-hand side with Ella Toon coming into the number ten. That tactical tweak worked wonders from Serena Vigman. And James was fabulous. She scored twice. The first goal, the opener midway through the first half, was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player.

She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. She was a great player. the final group. The final group is going to be the Netherlands. James getting her second from close range but still a really

accomplished finish low into the bottom corner. Ella Toon rounding things off both of those goals in the second half to make it England four, Netherlands nil and the margin of victory so key as well for England. They go into their final group game with Wales knowing that it is the Netherlands. They are going to be in the quarterfinals.

They are going to be in the quarterfinals. If they beat Wales, whatever happens in the Netherlands-France game on the final day, England will be going through to the quarterfinals. The mood feels so different

compared to before this game. I was asked by a Dutch colleague, don't you think England can beat the Netherlands and I said well yes I absolutely do but it's the context of what this game means and the pressure that they're under as defending European champions knowing that had they lost this game they could have gone out if the Wales-France game hadn't gone the way they needed it to and they have risen to the occasion yes the Dutch were poor but England were so so good. I don't think England could have handled the pressure much better, Nikita, and it's hard to even know which area of the pitch to start with. I think the most important area was winning the duels and being aggressive. That's how

they got their hold in the game. The Dutch were non-existent, honestly, in challenges, 1v1s, like just generally in the game, they couldn't get a lay of glove on England. That's because they were so intense and then when they get the goal from Lauren James, it's kind of like 20 minutes in and the manner in which she scored, it was a fantastic goal but the pass from Hannahampton was incredible to open up the lines and I did feel like the Dutch defence was just so poor today and I think they'll be utterly disappointed with their performance for sure. Was it proper Englishness Karen? This was the line we were given yesterday by Serena Vigman and the team they said

we want a proper English performance. Yeah no I think it was. I think Nikita's spot on. I think there was aggressiveness, there was determination and desire in every single part of the pitch. For me it was a cohesive performance, again, through my defending goalkeeper lens. The organization behind the ball allows so much attacking freedom because you don't have to be as concerned about what happens if I lose possession, are we going to get countered on? It was all, yeah, you go ahead, we'll take care of this behind you. You could see it throughout the game.

But I really enjoyed seeing Georgia Stanway getting higher up the pitch, Keira Walsh getting higher up the pitch. At one point in the first half, we saw her pull out to England's right and then deliver a cross. I was like, when was the last time I saw that in an England shirt? It was great to see. And two of them really worked well together. They complimented each other

and that's what we're used to seeing. So, Vintage England, is it too soon to pull that tagline out again? I'm not sure, but yeah, I was really, really pleased. Even Kira Walsh put in a slide tackle to try to win the ball back. So from that very narrow perspective, that's probably what I was pleased with most

and then obviously converting the chances that they were creating. It was certainly an area of concern, the midfield Nikita, wasn't it? In the France game. I wrote here in my notes as I was watching today, composure, aggression, but also intricacy. It felt like there was that stalwart element you know, shut up shop, composure,

keep things as and when we need them. But also finding those little delicate passes. They were fearless in a way that they couldn't show against France. I think they were penned back. Yeah, I think the difference from the France game was that every short pass they played, it got intercepted. But in this game, they didn't start with short passes. Serena must have said to them, longer passes because they started to switch the ball. And as they've opened the pitch, like switching from one left to right, right to left,

and that opened the Dutch team up, then they can play the intricate passes. But in the France game, they started with short passes and ended with short passes and that's where it all went wrong but I just think you know the key part and the key moment in this game was George's goal because that really put the Dutch on the back foot and it was an important time scoring just before half time really is a it's a difficult one for the opposition because is it do these do you go in 2-0 or do you try and get back into

the game? It was like that sort of indecision and you know the Dutch didn't turn up today but England definitely did and it was a great performance to see and I'm very proud of them. Do you think it was telling Nikita when Georgia Stanway scored that the entire bench were up celebrating with her and the way I saw it was she was one of those players who put their hand up after the France loss and said individually I felt I wasn't good enough, but collectively as a group we know we absolutely weren't and it felt like in that moment all of those ideas came together and it was like a refresh. To be honest, Katie, this is a together group and they're really cohesive and I think that

shows today in the celebrations, but even after the France loss, Aldi come together the celebrations. But even after the France lost, how they come together as a group and talked about, you know, the parts where where it went wrong. He was open about who could have been like Georgia taking responsibility.

I could have been better moments could have been better, and they took all that pressure on the shoulders and said we're going to perform in the next next game and we'll make things right. And he did today. So we're going to bring you reaction as and when we can from down in the tunnel from England's players and from Serena Vigman, the manager. Let's just touch though, Karen, quickly on the Dutch today. Serena winners against Wales going down 4-0 to England. What was so poor about them today against the Lionesses? Was it the press? I think England were very good.

I think, like I said several times, they just stopped Netherlands getting into the game at all. They stopped them creating. And I think, yeah, the quality on the ball was so much better that the Netherlands just couldn't really get any sort of rhythm or fluidity. And I think Serena's game plan in terms of reacting to with some of the changes when Jonkerm made those the formation changes in the substitutions as well just didn't really

work in the Netherlands favor. So I think I don't know what I don't really understand like what the Netherlands expected England to do but they didn't quite set up in the way that would be as successful as I think they would hope. They just didn't have that, the end product, the directness. So they did have chances, didn't they? Although not that many, Nikita. I think we've been trying to highlight

some of those attacking threats for the Dutch, the likes of Miedemar and Roard, who had a really lively game against Wales. Also the fact that these are players that a lot of the England team will know very well because eight of them last season were playing in the WSL, many of them teammates of the England side. So I wonder if that played into the narrative tonight as well. from them, no energy and the difference from a Wales game to tonight's game was the other spark in Viv Medina could score a goal but she was very rarely in goal-scoring opportunity positions and that's what's hard if you haven't got

that spark and you know you're not creating chances and you put on the back foot but I think where the Dutch went wrong tonight is there was no runs in behind they did not threaten that England back line at no point. And they have so much pace, especially with Chastity Grant against Alex Greenwood. I thought she would, you know, be more direct. Get her. Every time I seen her on the ball, she was facing her own goal. Happy days for Alex Greenwood. They had a fantastic result.

What is that? Is that just England defensively looking much more aligned than they were against France? Yeah, for sure. But also the Dutch, if you're not going to put them under pressure, they've got world-class players in that back line. In fact, Nikita, hold that thought. We've got some live reaction. Let's go down to Rob Schofield in the tunnel. Thanks, Katie. Jess Carter and I are just having a little giggle because Ella Toon's voice is carrying quite far. Jess, tell me about the emotions, what a night. Obviously we're super happy. I think as much as we wanted to put in a performance today and win, I think the biggest thing for me is just doing it as a team. Today we're still

together. I think we spoke after the France game and said how isolated one another felt and we didn't want that to be repeated. So the focus today was to just work as hard as we could to the very end and be together as a team. So about that mentality then because the message coming into the game was so calm but obviously there were a lot of worries outside. How were you able to shut that off and kind of connect and get to your best levels today? We always think about trying to be in our own bubble, you know, the outside world are going to comment on everything we do even if we win 4-0 there's going to be someone out there that says it's not good enough, you know. So the focus is on just on us trying to make sure that we stay together as a team and we

do what we set out to do and I think that's what we did today. I mean Lauren James very much arrived at this tournament. Just tell us about how special it is to see her do that here. Obviously we're used to it now but still it feels like she's very much arrived after so much talk because there seems to be constantly so much pressure on her to perform. There is pressure on her to perform but I think the best players thrive under the pressure and that's exactly what Lauren does. She's a phenomenal player and we all know that she's an

incredible talent and I'm glad she's on my team. So you know there's I think everyone has pressure as England we all have pressure and I think you know we just do our best to all step up on the day. And from a tactical point of view Jess obviously you played more centrally today with Alex going out to left back. Can you give us a little bit of insight about kind of why that came about and also maybe how you felt like

it got the best out of yourself? I don't know why it came about. I had to stand up to training and that's where Serena put me and stopped Alex. From straight after the France game? Yeah, just kind of obviously we're analysing and training. That's kind of what we worked on and not really wanting to question and that's, I'm just trying to do the job that

I'm given to do. But I think me and Alex spoke and maybe we felt that we weren't quite connected in the France game and this game felt the total opposite, I felt so connected with her and the whole team to be honest. But I think Alex was phenomenal at left back, I know she doesn't play that position traditionally either so I think she was phenomenal there and she was great to work with today. Yeah you both played brilliantly together. Just finally then Wales coming up on Sunday, it's another kind of very unique game in itself

but I'm sure the message is to reach for these high performance levels again. Yeah first we want another high performance, we want to stick together as a team. We're well aware that Wales is going to be a really tough team to break down and again we have to be on top of our game in order to come away from with three points. Well done Jess, thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Jess Carter there speaking to Rob Schofield. Nikita she doesn't know why she was switched into a more central position and Greenwood moved out left should we try and work out why that was? I'm guessing it's because Alex is more

naturally left-footed so opens the pitch up but you know either either player would have been comfortable in either position you know Jess didn't have her best game against France but stepped up tonight and as she said all she does is you know get told where she gets put by Serena and goes out there and gives her you know the best that she can and you know she's a honest honest player honest performance so you know well done to Jess because she and, you know, she's a honest, honest player, honest performance. So, you know, well done to Jessica. She recovered from the game against France. Well, that also lends itself into that bubble mentality she talked about as well. You know, we don't listen to the journalists and the outside noise

because for someone like me, Nikita, it's quite hard to think that you would just get told to do something, just do it. But maybe that's the tunnel vision that England needed after a loss to France. Like the unity get together and we'll work this out. And I suppose if we listen to Serena Vigman who's been there and done it before. Yeah, definitely. But if you ask any football player to play for your national team, would you play anywhere on the pitch? And they'll tell you, yeah. Karen's nodding as well. To play for your national team is the greatest honor. So yeah, you know, well done to Jess tonight. And yeah, I also agree with her.

Alex Greenwood had a fantastic game at left back. And you know, she kept a main threat of the Dutch really quiet and that just shows how much, you know, England really dominated this game today. To be fair on that theme, Karen, we spoke to Hannah Hampton this week and she said she misses scoring goals and she wants to go back to being a striker at times.

Well, from the way she played today, I'm sure she could play anywhere she likes. Should we keep her in goal though? I mean, you'll have to ask her or Serena. But you were really impressed with her performance. I was. You know what? Like I said, I was really pleased with her on, in the France game as well. I thought she looked confident in the way she stepped with

the ball in possession, like her distribution was very good. She found great passes and she did exactly the same thing and took it to another level today. I think with all the noise going on around Mary Earp, she's just focused on her own performance and let her football do the talking, which is exactly what the rest of the Lionesses did today. So yeah, I completely agree with everything Jess said with Nikita and about how well Alex played today and long may it continue.

So do you think Nikita against Wales then, Serena should and will continue with that formation with Greenwood Outwide? In fact, we're gonna go back down to Rob in the tunnel with Ella Toon. Thank you, Katie. Yeah, did you say Jess was putting you off there? Yeah, but she was giving me evils across the media

because I'm shouting, because I always shout. Well, you got something to shout about, that's fair. Tell us about that performance then and how good it felt and how good it felt to hear Sweet Carolina again, I suppose. Yeah, it felt amazing. It's one that we can definitely be proud of. It was a proper English display.

I think we put the pressure on them right from the off and we didn't take our foot off the gas right until the very end. So yeah, like I say, it's definitely a performance that we should be really proud of and hopefully we can take a lot of that into the Wales game. And from the start today,

tell us about that determination you clearly had to make your mark today. Yeah, of course. I mean, whatever role I'm thrown I'll always give a hundred percent for the team whether I'm starting the game, whether I'm not. But it was nice to start today. I made sure I took it with both hands. I grafted, I ran around and it was nice to get on the score sheet as well but I just really enjoyed it. It was a game that I really enjoyed playing in. And yeah, I think everyone played amazing tonight so yeah we should be really proud of ourselves. We've been talking about it just now, how much responsibility does

Serena put on the number 10 role because you know we've been discussing just how key that is to functioning the midfield. Can you give us a little bit of insight on that? Yeah I mean I don't think Serena puts any pressure on any players. I think as a number 10 you want to create goals, you want to score goals, you want to assist, you want to be involved in the play and make things happen. So I think that's just the pressure that we put on ourselves, me especially, I'm bad for it. But at the minute I'm in a really good head space, I'm enjoying my football and that's when it gets the best out of me. I loved today, I loved playing in the midfield with Keira and Georgia, it's really nice

and I think we've got a good balance. But yeah, for me tonight it was just about working hard, running, not stopping and yeah, like I say, it was always nice to get on the score sheet. And someone who certainly doesn't seem like she feels the pressure is Lauren James. I mean she almost took one off you there at the end there. I can see your face. Tell us what it's like for her and just her unique kind of energy and vibe around the place because it just seems to come so easy to her.

Yeah, she's the most chilled person and player I've ever met, ever played with. And a massive, massive talent. When you've got LJ on a day like you did today, she's unstoppable. You know, you can give her the ball in tight areas and she'll get you out. She'll score goals. She made me look better than it was with that bad chance. I'm glad she finished it off. But yeah, she's a great player, always someone that you want on your team and not one that you want to play against. So yeah, we're lucky to have talent like that in the squad,

but we've definitely got bags of it. not one that you want to play against. So, yeah, we're lucky to have talent like that in the squad, but we've definitely got bags of it. So, yeah, it's about getting the best out of each other and putting on performances like that. And just finally, does this feel like liftoff going into the Wales game? Yeah, it's massive for us. It's confidence.

We knew we had it in us. It was about getting it out, and we definitely did that today. It was a proper English performance, and, yeah, we've got to take a lot of positives into the Wales game, because again, it's a massive game. Well played, Ella. Thanks.

Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice.

No, but four years have passed. No bodies. You're dreaming. When the final whistle went, it was years have passed. Nobody's been dreaming. When the final whistle went, it was just raw emotion. We had fulfilled dreams we'd had since we were kids. I just can't stop flying. We talk and we talk and we talk and we've finally done it. Getting to lift that trophy was the most special moment ever. This will go down in history as one of the best days in English football.

UEFA Women's Euro 2025. Here we go then, this is what it's all been building towards. On Five Live and BBC Sound. The Football Daily podcast with Katie Smith at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. I'm thinking, Nikita, if we get a pound now for every time the English players say proper English, we're going to be pretty wealthy by the end of this tournament. But great. I think always with Ella Toon, she's that kind of character. You want to hear her happy and lively.

And that was in her performance. That was in the way she was speaking. And I love what she was saying about it's not Serena Vigman who puts pressure on her number 10, it's herself and her standards were so high today. Yeah they was and it's nice to hear that Ella Thun was playing with a smile on her face and she's happy and she's in a good headspace because that's important, that's where you need players to be in order to get the best out of them. But as she said that midfield three, it had good structure today, it had good cohesion and the game flowed through there very easy. At times we've seen Keira Walsh overlapping like she's a winger.

That's how good things have been in that midfield. It's nice to see Ella Toon get a goal. It was a good goal. The keeper didn't quite see it. It just came from behind the defender. But, you know, it was a really important win for the girls. And as she said, it's really good for the confidence. No coincidence that Rob has been asking all the players

he's speaking to this evening about Lauren James and what sort of role she plays, Karen. Loads of people have been in touch this evening as well. E saying, I almost can't believe that was the same team until Lauren James comes on, look what she can do. Pep saying, LJ sprinkles gold dust on this team. How much... Pep said that? Yeah, this was Pep's actually, so I don't think it's that Pep.

Amazing. But I mean, it would be pretty cool if it was that Pep. But hard to argue. How much was that down today to where she was sitting on the pitch? Yeah, I think we touched on it earlier, didn't we, about the role that playing a little bit wider gives her in terms of coming inside, creating those overloads, and creating that uncertainty in between the defensive, whether it's a double pivot or a holding midfielder for the opposition and the centre backs as well.

Do they step out? Do they put pressure on? And it's indecisiveness that gives her so much opportunity to score as well but it's the freedom, it's the creativity that she has, the calmness, the way she can make her teammates shine and the trust that they put in her you know like we heard the girls saying about they can give her the ball in really tight areas and know that they'll create some that she'll create something for them out of nothing. And then obviously the way she strikes a ball is delightful to watch as it explodes off of her foot.

So she's quite the talent. I wonder what kind of impact she can have going forward in the tournament now, Nikita. I think she'll have massive impact. I think in terms of England progressing through this tournament and getting to the latter stages and potentially the final, you know, Lodham James will be really important, but so will, you know, the likes of Ella Toon, the likes of Alessia Russo, who tonight has had a brilliant performance, but we haven't spoken about her. She's had a hatchet of assists and,

you know, as the number nine, you want to be scoring goals, but if you're not scoring goals, you want to be creating them and assisting them. you know she worked tirelessly tonight on and that Dutch Bachlan will be having nightmares about Alessia Russo tonight because she was brilliant. Well and she has two ruled out as well Vicky so it's not like she's not creating as Nikita said and you know a little bit of bad luck at those very marginal off sides. Yeah exactly and Nikita I be fascinated in your opinion on this when we talk about the momentum that certain players might gather as we go through this tournament. When I was coming into the game today and thinking about all the pressure that was on

England the real game that stood out to me in my mind was the Spain quarterfinal where obviously at the Euros three years ago, where obviously England were trailing so late on in that game, then equalized, then managed to win it in extra time. And I remember Serena Vigman saying at the time, it was a big step in our development and showing that resilience. Obviously you were part of the squad three years ago during that quarter-final.

How do you think this game, knowing that all the pressure that was on England, you don't lose and then the Wales-France game doesn't go their way and they're out with a game to spare as reigning champions, how much do you think that dealing with the pressure, putting in the performance that they did today, not just getting the victory but the performance as well, could provide a similar springboard to what felt from the outside like the springboard that the quarterfinal against Spain provided for you and the rest of the squad as you went the final. You've got the did and that breeds confidence and as soon as you get a result like that against a team

that you know many people predict as a door horse and you know they won the Euros in 2017 so they're not shy of you know winning mentality in that Dutch side and you know they have key players like Viviana Medina and for that bat for the English back line to keep it as quiet as they did as well as the other. That's the sort of confidence that each other will be breathing off. And it's nice when you can get different goal scorers and you've got players like Lauren James who comes in and has a massive impact in this game, gets the goals.

That's all good confidence for the team, as well as we've talked loads about players who've been injured and then came into the squad. Now they've got real minutes players who have been injured and then came into the squad. Now they've got real minutes under the belt, two games. It only looks positive for this England team. Just to underline with a few stats as well.

So Lauren James, directly involved in eight goals now and just five starts at major tournaments for England. Alessia Russo, as you were just saying Nikita, first player on record, although it says in brackets since 2013, so only what, just over 10 years, to record three assists in a single UEFA Women's Euro game. And then Ella Toon as well, scoring three goals in her last three England appearances,

as many as across her previous 28 outings for the Lionesses. So sort of everywhere you look, there are positives. I think we've talked about the Dutch maybe being a little poorer than we expected today but I suppose we now, Nikita and Karen, should look ahead to the Wales game because that is still a crucial must-win for England but the really important thing, Nikita, is that it is in their hands now because of this massive scoreline against the Dutch. Yeah and that's what the Linus' were the ones that they would have needed to get this group taken by

the scruff of the neck and really put it in their favour and I think you know this result tonight helps them in the fact that when they go into that Wales game they need they know it's within their hands they need to get a win and then they qualify for the for the latter stages and you know that Wales game as I said before you know Rian Wilkinson's talked about how they can be cause a problem in this group day and that could be the game. And we are heading straight back down the tunnel in Zurich Rob Schofield with Serena Vigman. Thank you Katie Serena congratulations on a brilliant result. Eletoons called it a couple of times a proper English performance. How pleased are you with it?

Yeah, I'm really happy with the performance and the place is a proper England. I thought how we bounced back from our defeat against France was really good. You could also tell in camp, but of course we refued, we had conversations with each other, we moved on and that looked very good. But then still you have to tell in camp. But of course we refued, we had conversations with each other, we moved on. And that looked very good, but then still you have to get the results, otherwise you're just going home. So things can go well, but it's not guaranteed that you then play really well on the pitch, but we did.

And I think we really explored spaces that the Netherlands left behind. We did that really well. Skipping players, going in behind, and moments dragging them out and then go forward. But also the press we had, right, at moments really high, and we really challenged them in that. We know they have a lot of speed up front, but we could take that out because they were hardly dangerous.

So I'm very happy with how the team responded, and of course also very happy with the result, because this brings us totally back in the competition. There were some definite tactical tweaks there. I just wonder if actually, you know, just how satisfied you were with the mentality being spot on as well. Yeah, absolutely. Mentality but also conviction and reading the game really well. So that's what you can see.

So when we had to be in duel, we were in duel, when they did play the long ball, we stepped deep at the right time. But if we could play the duel, we were there too. But also wanted to have the press take out the long ball. We challenged them there too. You talked about defending. I think that's what we did really well. That's mentality, but it's also reading the game really well and supporting each other. So yeah, that was lovely to see.

Lauren James, eight, directly involved in eight goals in five major tournament starts. I mean, do you feel like we saw the best of her today? Oh, you saw good. I think she can do even better. Of course she has been out for a while, but she's really, really back on it and that looked really good. And yeah, she's a special player and that's what you see. Of course the team supports her and she supports the team. It's really nice that she plays to her strengths because she can change games. Georgia Stanway scored some very big goals for England. That one looked like it meant a lot to her in particular.

Difficult season, difficult game against France. Tell us a little bit about what you've seen from her this week. Yeah, very reflecting on herself. So of course I've seen her now for a while because she came back from her last camp already, the last Nations League window. She worked really hard to get back and of course against, in training camp she was really good. Then the France game was a big disappointment for all of us, but she was also disappointed about her performance, so she really reflected on herself and said, I definitely want to do better. And that's what she did today,

and we know she has a very good shot, but that second goal was very important, right before half time, because that puts them even in a harder position, and us in a better position. Thank you, Serena, well done today. We'll see you ahead of the Wales game, cheers. Thank you very much. Serena Vigman, the England boss live on Five Live.

So final thoughts then from Karen Bardsley and Nikita Paris. Nikita, she said Lauren James can do better. I mean that's quite an exciting prospect considering what she produced today. Yeah it is and I totally agree with that. I do think Lauren had a great game but I think she can Yeah, it is and I totally agree with that. I do think Llyrdyn had a great game but I think she can even do even more and that's scary to think for opposition but I'm glad I ain't the opposition and you know, look out Wales, that's all I can say. So England face Wales in their final group game Karen, they need a win and only a win but they still need the win, the three points to still secure that spot in the quarterfinals. So job half done.

I suppose my final question, are England here to stay? Because inconsistency has been a major problem for them over the last couple of years. Well, yeah, just the last two games. But if they play like they played today, tonight, and with the conviction that they showed and the quality, I think Wales should be concerned but you know it's Wales it's always they're always going to raise their level aren't they it's always going to be competitive it always feels like there's something

else on the line beyond just you know a football game so they'll have to go back reflect on you know what they can do even better you know touching on Serena's point around Lauren James early on in the game you know maybe she didn't start as quickly as we would have liked to see her in terms of checking her shoulder, maybe it was too nonchalant, but there's small things like that, but yeah, if she does continue on the path that she's on, I would be very fearful if I was Wales. From Zurich to St Gallen then where Wales lost 4-1 to France in their second game. It means barring a miraculous turnaround, Rhian Wilkinson's side will be heading home after the group stage. This one was watched by Dani Gabadon and Ailey Barber. the first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal.

The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal.

The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. The first major tournament goal. moment it was, Katie. It was actually a real privilege even not being Welsh to be in this stadium and see what that meant to the players, to the supporters. That connection between the supporters and the players has just been fantastic to see everywhere we've been in Switzerland with Wales. But it did look pretty ominous when Matteo put the ball in the net after just eight minutes for France. They started really strongly, the French, but Wales, to give them huge credit, they never gave up. They fought back and then when that ball slid across from Kerry Holland and who else but Jess Fishlock to slide in and put it in the in the net, there was a brief moment. The flag went up. It was very dramatic. We thought perhaps it wouldn't stand, but the roar when referee Grünbacher pointed towards the centre circle and the goal was given.

It was an incredible moment, everybody on the bench involved in the celebrations. Unfortunately as happened in the first game against the Netherlands, right on the stroke of half-time, Holland just taking down Mateo, penalty awarded, and Diani stroking in the penalty just, just. Middleton Patel getting a foot to it, but it just slid in past her and that gave France the lead right on the break and they came in again as what happened in the game against the Netherlands, came out, scored early on second half through Majre. A mistake from Middleton Patel and then Gioro adding a fourth later on, but it just didn't feel like a 4-1 kind of game. Wales, so much heart, so much passion, so much fight, so much to be proud of in this performance. They caused France problems, they asked them questions, they put them in uncomfortable positions,

but like you say, unfortunately, the scoreline is what it is. Wales still waiting for their first points in a major tournament. It is France who topped the group and it finished France 4, Wales 1. Shall we start with that positive then, Dani, of the Jess Fishlock goal? Because it cannot go unnoticed how historic that moment was, what a huge moment it was for her personally because it really is for someone so decorated that the one thing she hadn't done in her career. Yes, Jess has been the heartbeat of this team for so so long and so so deserved of that moment.

You know she's led this team for so many years now, been through so many kind of difficult moments, so many kind of near misses, and you see many a great player who doesn't get to play in a major tournament, so for her to have that opportunity to do that at 38 years of age and to get a goal, I can only imagine how she felt when that ball kind of trickled over the line, you know her when the goal was given in after the VR check, VR check, sorry, she was straight over to the side, straight over to the staff, straight over to the teammates and everybody was embracing and it was just a fantastic moment which I'm sure is going to live in the memory for her for so long.

Danny, even when she came off, when she was subbed really late on in the second half, she still had the ghost of a smile on her face. Wales 4-1 down at that point, but it really felt like if those were the last couple of minutes we might see her, I appreciate we got the game against England still to come, but if that was her one and only goal, then she was so pleased that she managed to do it on this major tournament debut for Wales. Yeah look I'm sure when she was a you know a little girl growing up and dreaming of being a professional footballer you know you

kind of dream of these moments you dream of kind of getting the opportunity to play in major tournaments to score as well so for her to actually now be living that out you know maybe thinking maybe thinking it would never happen at one point It's just a huge huge moment for it really is something that's gonna as I said, it's gonna live in the memory forever really so yeah the ball just couldn't have dropped to a more fit in person really and Yeah, just disappoint really then off the back of that the team wasn't able to kind of go on and get a result but so so so proud of Jess and so proud

have had a team perform. Rhian Wilkinson Ailey made quite a few changes for coming into this game off the back of that defeat to the Netherlands set up with a back four, changed her goalkeeper as well, so brought in Safia Middleton-Pattel of Manchester United. It looked like she particularly one of those individuals that struggled a little bit, but was this also a way that France were able to get into the game, the way the Wales set up? I thought Wales' set up was great. We spoke about it before kickoff, Danny and myself. It's not a formation that Rhian Wilkinson has really used often at all with Wales. It's traditionally this back three, but bringing Rachel Rowe into that midfield

and just having an extra body in and around there made it difficult for France. Sapia Middleton-Pattel, I thought, did superbly for so much of the game. She's 20 years old. She's only got four caps, and she hasn't played for Wales since back in April. So, you know, she doesn't play for Man United. She's back up to Tullis Joyce. So a huge night for her,

and great faith put in her by Rheanne Wilkinson. And she will have learned so, so much. She came so close to saving the penalty. She made some great saves throughout. I thought she was really good with her feet at times. Okay, she made a huge error that allowed France to score that third goal and she will herself learn a lot from that. But I thought that was a really interesting decision from Wilkinson and I feel like it was a huge moment for Middleton Patel and it now gives Wilkinson an option of two goalkeepers

going into that England game. Huge experience for both of them over these two games and then you look as well at the changes that she made in the outfield areas and they were so much higher up the pitch. They were able to get Kerry Holland on the ball. Fiona Morgan ran and ran and ran her socks off up front. Works really well as well with just Jess Fishlock. There was a little bit more composure higher up the pitch. If you're going to play higher up the pitch, you are going to leave space at the back.

We know how quick France's transitions can be from defence to attack. But I thought Wales performed so well tonight in a formation and a system that they can't have had a huge amount of time to work on. Yeah and Danny does that mean that for you was that a considerable step on from what you saw against the Netherlands and then I guess what would be the next step they have to take ahead of the England game coming up on Sunday? Yeah I just want to see it again, I want to see that same performance against England. That's the way Wales need to play. If they want to progress as a team, if they want to be able to challenge better teams and get results, that's the way to go. Now at the

moment they're not quite at that level. They can't sustain that kind of level of quality for the full kind of 90 minutes. But it was a totally different performance from the first game. It was braver. They played with more confidence. They were better on the ball. The way they were winning the ball back quickly and it's still a process with his with his Wales team. They need to find a bit more kind of quality and at times a little bit more belief. But I just thought I was really brave to set the team up the way Real Wilkinson did tonight up against a really dangerous France team. If you get it wrong tactically, it can make you look a bit a little bit silly. But I thought there were moments

and we were really in the game and caused France a lot of problems ourselves. So, so many positives to take into the England game from that. You look at some of the other home nations who've experienced this before Wales, Scotland, Euro 2017, World Cup 2019, they haven't been back on that stage. Northern Ireland three years ago at the Euros not back here this time. This is an opportunity for Wales to close that gap to keep building to be here on these stages time after time after time. And it's only by being here that you grow and you develop. And so what these players are doing here,

the performance that they're putting on here, the way they're inspiring back home, and the way that they should be saying to everybody who puts the money into the places that it needs to be put, this is what we can have time after time after time if the right steps are taken. And this chapter that's starting here is continued the As it stands, France top of the group on six points, two wins from two. England now sitting second ahead of the Netherlands on goal difference. Wales on no points. England will go through if they can beat Wales on Sunday. But Danny, from the Welsh perspective then, is it all about stopping England, ruining the party on Sunday and can they?

Yeah, well, we would love nothing more than to spoil the English party. You knew what was coming. But look it's going to be very difficult. You know, look at how England performed tonight. The pressure was kind of on them going into the game and they've produced a fantastic performance, done exactly what they kind they needed to do off the back of the loss against France. So your tails will be up again, but so will ours, even though we've lost that 4-4-1, it was a really positive performance, a lot of positives to take from the game. The team will be feeling so much better, as I said, after that performance.

feeling so much better, as I said, after that performance. And it's a derby game, so anything can happen. And it does mean that little bit more to the players. So I'm sure that'll be part of the team talk going into the game. We can maybe spoil the English party, but it is going to be very difficult, because England are a fantastic side as well. Well, thank you so much both you Ailey

Barber and Danny Gavidon in St. Gallen for us and Danny you were there on two nights of history for Wales so maybe you're a sort of good and bad luck charm. Hopefully, hopefully we'll just have to see about that. Maybe we can get the hat trick and maybe we can get our first point against England or even maybe even get a win. Let's hear from the Wales boss then, Rhian Wilkinson. I'm incredibly proud. Of course we're going to look at a 4-1 loss and it's easy to look at that and think like it wasn't a great performance. I think we gave everything we had. I think we were expansive in our play and brave in our ideas and when I asked them to do that,

which I did, I asked them to be courageous, then mistakes happen and that's how we learn. We are as one in everything we do and I'm so impressed with our performance tonight. You have another part to play now for the final game. There is some jeopardy in this group so how do Wales go about the next and final game possibly here unless you do climb a huge mountain on the final night? Yeah, I think it's one more chance that's guaranteed to us to show up again for our country.

And I think that's always what I've said. I said that this team will show up and put in a performance for Wales, and that is what they did. Every single player, whether they hit the field or not, because what a role they play, the players that don't get to step onto the field. There's not much I can do because we lose 4-1 and everyone expects me to be negative

or down and I'm not. Every one of them gave everything they had tonight to make their nation, their families proud and they did exactly that. When Jess Fishlock scored, did we see tears in your eyes? I didn't know what I did. Probably twice as well with the VAR. They made me wait. This is what we have to celebrate, these moments.

There's moments where we played around France, a top nation. Wales is, you know, I think we learned against Holland, one of those players, has more caps than we have international games. We are still minnows on the world stage, but look how quickly we're learning and look how courageously these women are going towards really hard things on the world stage, but look how quickly we're learning and look how courageously these women are going towards really hard things on the world stage. Jess, that goal, what a thing to celebrate and we have to celebrate it. There's a loss tonight, but equally there's some phenomenal performances." That's all from us here in Zurich then. On Thursday, the hosts Switzerland will be looking

to secure their last eight spot. They face Finland in a winner-takes-all clash. So we've got commentary to come on Five Live and BBC Sounds from eight o'clock. Next up on the Football Daily podcast feed though, it'll be episode three of Maisie Adams' Euros fan diary. Welcome to the Toonie and Russo show on BBC Sounds. I am here with two of football's most famous friends, Alessia Russo and Ella Toon. I know where I'd take you for your hen-do. Well, Benidorm.

Benidorm, oh yes. I would like that. It's Keely Hodgkinson. Hey! How long's like your training sessions like what do you do? Just run around. Do you think we're best friends for life? Erm, oh my god. In sessions, like, what do you do? Just run around. You think we're best friends for life? Um, oh my god.

It's the Unien Russo Show with me, Vic Hunt. Listen on BBC Sound.