Football Daily - Women's Euros: Penalty drama & Jess Carter subjected to racist abuse

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

Ben Haines, England women’s record goal scorer Ellen White and The Guardian’s Tom Garry react to Jess Carter revealing she has received racist abuse throughout the tournament. The Lionesses have said they will stop taking the knee before matches as football needs to find another way to tackle racism. Jess Carter has also said she will be stepping back from social media. Katie Smith has been speaking with Alex Greenwood about how Jess is and conversations within the team about the abuse. On the pitch Ellen and Tom give their insight into some dramatic football in the quarter-finals, how England will go into their semi-final against Italy and what is going on with penalties at this tournament! Timecodes: 02:32 Statements on Jess Carter racist abuse 12:00 Alex Greenwood with Katie Smith 22:10 Ellen on Sweden game 31:10 Italian threat 36:15 Ann-Katrin Berger 42:11 Penalties!

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Deal ratings and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca, cargurus.ca. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender, the high-performance Defender Okta, 626 horsepower twin-turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at LandRover.ca. Dynamics Air Suspension. Learn more at LandRover.ca.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily podcast with Ben Haines at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. Hello everyone, welcome along to the Football Daily. It's semi-final time at the Women's Euros. And if you are waiting for that ignition moment in the tournament, it's fair to say the quarterfinals absolutely nailed it. England making it past Sweden in dramatic fashion. Germany almost managing to top that with a dramatic result of their own in the quarter.

They snuck past France. Italy left it late to book their place in the semis with a 90th minute winner against Norway and Spain complete the semi-final line-up. They saw off host Switzerland in a fairly comprehensive victory there. But before we get into the quarter-finals today, some news coming out from the England camp. As Jess Carter and the Lionesses have both released statements explaining that Jess will be stepping away from social media after receiving racist abuse throughout the tournament.

In a statement she said, From the start of the tournament, I've experienced a lot of racial abuse. Whilst I feel every fan is entitled to their opinion on performance and result, I don't agree or think it's okay to target someone's appearance or race. As a result of this, I'll be taking a step back from social media and leaving it to a team to deal with. As ever, I'm grateful for all of the support from the genuine fans, but I'm taking this measure to protect myself in a bid to keep my focus on helping the team any way I can. Hopefully speaking out will make the people writing this abuse think twice so that others

don't have to deal with it. We've made some historic changes with this Lionesses squad that I'm so proud to be a part of and my hope is that by speaking out about this it will make another positive change for all. I'm now looking forward and focusing on putting all of my energy into helping my team. We also then saw the Lionesses say on X, we stand with Jess and all Lionesses players past and present who have suffered racism. No one should have to endure such vile abuse be that in football or any walk of life. Representing our country is the greatest honour and it's not right that while we're doing that,

some of us are treated differently simply because of the colour of our skin. Until now we've chosen to take the knee before matches, it's clear we and football need to find another way to tackle racism. We've agreed as a squad to remain standing before kickoff on Tuesday, we hope the game can come together to see what more can be done. For now we'll return our total focus to an important semi-final. In the meantime, we know the FA are working with UK police and the appropriate bodies. Those behind this online poison must be held accountable." There was also a statement from FA CEO Mark Billingham who said, our priority is Jess and giving her all the support she needs. We strongly condemn those

responsible for this disgusting racism. As soon as we were made aware of the racist abuse Jess received, we immediately contacted UK police. They're in touch with the relevant social media platform and we're working with police to ensure those responsible for this hate crime are brought to justice. Regrettably, this isn't the first time this has happened to an England player, so we have measures in place to allow us to respond quickly and where possible provide information to support any potential police action. We'll continue to discuss with the relevant authorities and social media companies about what more can and should be done to prevent this abhorrent abuse. I'm joined on the pod today by England record goal Scorer Ellen White and The Guardian's Tom Garry.

And Ellen, before we start and before we go too deeply into this, first and foremost, we need to send our best wishes, our sympathies and our thoughts to Jess Carter, who has been going through the tournament clearly throughout having to deal with just the most awful situation and disgusting racism. Yeah, 100%.

Just sending so much love to Jess, this absolute abhorrent abuse that she's obviously receiving that just should not be received in any walk of life, let alone a footballer as well. I'm shocked and disgusted by it. I hope she's okay. I feel like she's got a good group and obviously England have responded very quickly to it as well. I've got so much respect for her for speaking out, standing up and being like this is not okay. This shouldn't happen to anybody. She's playing football for her country at a major tournament and people are sat there behind their phone, their keyboards and just inflicting racial abuse which is just absolutely shocking and should be brought to justice whoever that is, whoever they are. I just

want to make sure that she's okay and I'm sure she has got an amazing group around her but yeah just sending her so much love. And as ever Tom, we see the Lionesses acting a way that is so incredibly admirable but thoughtful and immediate as well. This is one of the things with this group, they always seem to get it right when it comes to standing together and standing up for people that require that level of support and also condemning things that we just absolutely want nowhere near any walk of life but football in this instance. Yeah, the wording of the statement from the Lionesses is particularly powerful in not just its condemnation

of this disgusting abuse, but also in the unity that it shows and the immediacy of their rallying around their teammates. I think it's a particularly powerful choice to say that they're no longer going to take the knee before matches because, and I quote, that it's clear football needs to find another way to tackle racism. And I think that probably speaks to the growing feeling amongst the

players that you know not enough is being done to tackle this and I think it's absolutely right that the FA and I can see now also Gotham, her club, have come out with a strong statement condemning this too, that everyone clamps down on this in the strongest possible terms because this sort of cowardly keyboard racism online is not only hasn't it no place in any walk of society is it is so at odds with the atmosphere of love that we have seen at this tournament and the the welcoming nature of everybody here and all the all the real fans of this game everybody in the sport hopefully now is going to be rallying behind Jess Carter and trying to clamp this out for good because the women's game has had so much growth

and so many positive things about the growth but this is this is a area that I think we need to be really concerned about. We've seen instances last season with Bunny Shaw receiving awful abuse, we've seen in the past Lauren James receiving awful abuse online. This is not a one off. And some stats were released a few days ago from the home office about the arrests at football, and it was admirable to see there was only, I think, one arrest in the whole of women's football last season across England and Wales. But what there was was a quite alarming growth in reports of online abuse separate to that

and that needs to be a massive focus area now for a sport that's rightly proud of its safety at matches but now it's that online safety for the players that needs to really ramp up the priority list as a matter of urgency. And I suppose, Ellen, you saw this almost emerge in real time, right? As you were playing and going through your career, the rise of social media very much aligned with your playing career. But there is a level of cowardice that comes with this type of abuse that, as Tom's saying, we're not seeing arrests at stadiums.

We're not seeing the levels of abuse at stadiums that we are seeing through online hate and social media. Can you just give us a little insight into how you saw that develop over the course of your career as social media became a more prominent part of football support? Yeah, you know, as I continued my career, yeah, social media started to become more prominent, started to become quite a powerful thing

for women's football to help us grow our game, showcase our game. And with that becomes, like you say, people feeling like they can comment, they can subject players and people to more abuse, more criticism, with the fact that they can sit behind a computer, they can sit behind a phone and feel like they can say whatever they want and almost get away with it.

And I feel like that's really, really starting to become quite a problem. And I feel like, you know, more needs to be done for footballers, for more people in life, and also for young people as well. Having that safety and feeling safe using social media, because it can be a wonderful platform, but then there's some really scary sides of social media as well, and we just don't want to ever see someone being subjected to racial abuse doing something that they love, playing for their country,

making their country proud, their family proud. And like Tom said, it's been such a wonderful tournament. Women's football, I feel like, is known for that community, that love, that love, that sense of belonging and then I feel like you get these types of people that feel like they can just say what they want and that's not acceptable, that's not okay, it's disgusting and they should be brought to justice but I feel like more needs to be done from those social media platforms to make it more safe and

to bring those people to justice. And you're right Ellen, this is not the first time that we've had a conversation like this over the course of this last season. I can remember two or three times this season and it could have been a lot more that we were sat and discussing how players have faced abuse after games or in the wake of a performance. Only a month ago we saw Katie Bolter talking after the French Open about the abuse that she had received on social media and I remember Tom we were going into the Lionesses media days at the start of the tournament just before the Lionesses left with that being a really prominent

discussion that how were they going to be able to deal with the potential abuse that they might receive on social media and in the most part players have dramatically scaled back their use of social media and I think the team came together to talk about the ways in which it was going to be used. It's awful that Jess Carter has now reached a point where she just can't be anywhere near it for her own well-being and to take care of her mental health whilst at a major tournament. Yes, and it's also worth stressing that we know of players who have been the victims of these things, you know, ongoing and sort of kept it to themselves to you know without going public with their concerns so just imagine how bad it must have been for

Jess Carter during a tournament to feel so strongly about this that she needs to to speak out now you know I spoke to a player about three months ago who said they'd had a message a racist message on social media but you know after a game in the WSL and they said well you know I don't want to make a fuss about it now you know we've got a match coming up and they didn't really want it out there and didn't really want it known. So just that now scares me how relentless

this must have been for Jess to feel this way now. And I just want to reiterate that we kind of send send her our very best wishes. I think she's done a really brave and powerful thing here, but the sport also needs to kind of go one step further than just sort of condemn condemnation and sending its best wishes. At some point I think social media needs to have a very very serious conversation about the ease of access for some of the cowardly keyboard warriors to send messages of all

different kinds to public facing athletes and other people in a famous situation in public life. It is just at the moment it seems a little bit too easy for people who don't have to have their name on their account, they don't have their identity on the account, they could use a picture of something that isn't their own face on their profile photo, making it harder to identify, all those sorts of things. I think a really serious societal conversation has to happen at a much higher level to sort this out, otherwise unfortunately this is going to carry on and we don't want to be

here at the next tournament again sending best wishes and condemning something. It's, you know, everyone in the whole world has to clamp down on this urgently. A little bit earlier on today at the Lionesses Base in Zurich, Five Life Sports Katie Smith spoke with Alex Greenwood about the abuse that Jess Carter has suffered since the start of the tournament. Alex, thank you so much for joining us on the Football Daily. We've got to start with some quite upsetting news that we've had today from your teammate, Jess Carter, who has revealed in a statement some racist abuse that she's received and suffered from online.

I just wanted to start by asking you, how is she? Jess is okay. She's a really strong person anyway. She's a really strong person anyway, she's a really strong personality but I know that this situation has not been nice for her. Obviously as a team we're supporting her the best we can, as a group, as staff players. But yeah, Jess is actually okay. She's shared her message, we're fully behind her in sharing her message and I think her words were really powerful. Because there was a statement that followed from the FA

and I'll just read this out for our listeners. So until now we've chosen to take the knee, this is from you the players, before matches. It's clear that we and football need to find another way to tackle racism and we've agreed as a squad to remain standing now before kickoff for the semi-final on Tuesday. So was this a player led decision? And could you talk us through the process? It's actually a decision that we're going to do from now until something changes. We feel that taking a knee has probably lost its purpose a little bit. And it's what it was

there designed to do. Yeah it was a much so agreed within the group staff included players it was a it was a strong feeling to do that to send a message because we want we want change and we wanted to to change fast because we don't stand for this and we've made such progress in a lot of areas in women's football and the change the Lionesses have made in our country but again now we want to make a change again and make a strong message that this is absolutely not okay. Do you still feel like you as the Lionesses can have an impact on this?

Because I think there is an acknowledgement that there's only so much that you as players can be asked to do before perhaps the decision goes higher up or elsewhere. Whatever we have to do, we will continue to do. Of course, we need some help with this. And I know our organisation are doing all they can. We hope that other organisations and other teams, other players also have the same feeling as us and want

to do something to make a change but the responsibility lies with us and our team right now and what we've decided to do we feel really passionate and strongly about and I know we can only do so much but what we are capable of doing we will decided to do, we feel really passionate and strongly about. And I know we can only do so much, but what we are capable of doing, we will continue to do. Beth Mead's already spoken to us this week about sharing vulnerabilities as a group. And it just feels like as a team, you get stronger and stronger as a unit. And I just wondered if you could share some of the emotions that have been going through the group with everything that's been going on. Yeah, we have left a lot of vulnerability on the line with this team in the last four weeks, I'd say. We're a very, very close team and I don't say that for anyone to make us

look any different, but we genuinely are a really close team. We care about each other a lot. We're all very much individuals who come together and want to achieve a goal, which is to win. But ultimately we're human beings at the end of the day and we go through different things in our lives that test us and we spend a lot of time together. So we experience a lot of different things together, whether that's personal, something that Jess is going through. Other players go through different things during these four weeks and like I said, we're a very close group. We support each other emotionally, actually. I think we've been on a roller coaster in terms of football,

but now off the pitch as well. But like I said, whether it's a football matter or a personal matter, we will always look after each other. Well, talking of that football roller coaster then, how have the last couple of days of recovery theme, cause I mean for you, Alex, you played the full 90, then the full 30, then there was the penalty shootout. So how mentally and physically exhausting is it to now have to come back from that?

Honestly, I am, I think you do all this preparation for this before. I mean, I was out for a long time with an injury and yeah, I knew that I've experienced enough tournaments to know the demand of the games and what it looks like you think, you know, you go to 120 minutes and penalties and the last stages of a tournament are going to require different elements of what you're capable of doing, both mentally and physically. And the last couple of days have been massively about recovery rest and mental rest I think we have a great balance in this team with the staff and the players of being really honest about how players are feeling and whether that's to go and spend a little bit more time in recovery

more training spend time with family and we've got the balance really well so I think today everyone feels a lot better than they did two days ago. That's now six major tournament semifinals in a row for England's Lionesses. You've been involved with all of them as well. I wonder if that really hammers home this message that England are starting to show that they can win in whatever way is required and the game against Sweden was an example of that. Yeah, I mean, for sure. I think, like you said, the six tournaments I've been involved in,

we've been to semi-final or beyond. I actually didn't know that until I read it just a couple of days ago. Are you proud? Yeah, yeah, really proud. But now it's also an expectation. It's this or nothing at all. But yeah, I think as a team now, we've set them standards to reach these levels. So yeah, really, really, really proud of that achievement.

Also for you throughout this tournament, you've been part of a defensive line that's really had to show adaptability. And we go back to the quarterfinal, you finished the game with two different people around you than you started. So I wonder how much that has taken off field to get right on field. Again a lot of preparation. Every player in the squad is prepared whether that's from the first minute, it's coming on as a sub, whether you don't feature at all. Everyone has a role to play and we prepare for this for weeks and weeks

before this tournament even begins. We have conversations about it. A lot of work goes into that. And whoever comes on the pitch, whatever position, there's so much trust and belief in that player to do the job. And I think that showed the game to Sweden. I think, like you've just said, I think Esme came in, Niamh came in,

both made huge contributions. Niamh made an unbelievable block in the last minute of the second. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, listen, that's incredible. Esme looked like in the last minute of this second. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, listen, that's incredible. Esme looked like she played every minute of every game. She looked so calm and relaxed and she brought a little bit of of composure to the back line a little bit, especially in tired legs, tired minds.

I thought she'd done a great job. And then Chloe, I mean, Chloe puts two great crosses in for the goal. So everyone's gonna have their moment in a tournament. And I think our whole squad are really prepared for whatever's to come. Katie Smith with the questions there to Alex Green with our support and our strength and love and solidarity with Jess Carter and the Lionesses and anyone affected

by that news of abuse that Jess has suffered throughout the tournament. Let's turn our attention now to those quarter-finals on the pitch and it's such a shame that we've had to speak about something that takes the focus away from what has been a brilliant tournament but it's really, really important that we do. A huge game ahead for the Lionesses on Tuesday after one of the most dramatic quarterfinals that you could have asked for and I think first question to both of you, four brilliant quarterfinals, four very different quarterfinals what would we say was

the most exciting or the most dramatic of the four? I think it has to be last night actually, Germany-France. I've been so lucky to be at three of the quarterfinals seeing a 90th minute winner and two penalty shootouts going to sudden death. So you can't really ask for better drama over three quarterfinals but my favourite I think was last night because there was just so much in that game in Basel whether it was the the crazy red card or the VAR drama, disallowed goals, penalties saved and scored, and then the save from Anne-Kathleen Berger, probably the best save I've ever seen live

at a football match, which I'll never, ever forget. To be there in the stadium for that was just a massive privilege. Whereas the England quarterfinal, equally dramatic, but it was sort of pure stressful chaos, and we were all just in this sort of disbelief at how many penalties were being missed right left and centre. Whereas last night just a master class of German defending with 10 players and a real privilege to witness that performance from

the Germans. Well let's break them both down we'll start with England then who go through on penalties after one of the most exciting, tense, dramatic and bizarre penalty shootouts I think any of us have ever watched. Elz, if we go into the 90 minutes though, to put it simply, were Sweden excellent or were England lacking a little bit? I think the first half of Sweden were absolutely unbelievable, just blew England out of the park. Physicality, intensity, they loved the transition, clinical in front of goal. They probably will be very disappointed obviously, they probably should have been 3 or 4-0 up

and they didn't take advantage of that. We had a Leah Williamson flying, sliding tackle, then a Hannah Hampton save and then again in the second half Hannah kept us in the game and then you know we were very good once we had substitutions and that kind of 11-12 minutes towards the end of 90 minutes where we started to really get our groove and the momentum switch and we started to really kind of showcase what we were about that determination that resilience but I think Sweden will be kicking themselves that they didn't take advantage in that first half of England being so poor, but then also Sweden executing a game plan, especially being so threatening

down that right-hand side and just loving the transition at the same time. So yeah, I feel like Sweden will be very disappointed, but then England were just so good when they brought on those subs and were able to just turn the game on its head and just stay in the game and then just have that mentality. I know the penalty shootout was pretty awful, but you've got to commend Russo, Kelly, Bronze and Hannah Hampton. I'll never say a bad word about anyone that missed a penalty because they've put their hand up and said, I'm going to take one. So yeah, at the end of the day England are through to the semi-finals

and let's just leave that one and not talk about everything. It doesn't matter how you get there does it, just as long as your name's in that hat. For people that listen to the Women's Football Weekly regularly, I'm going to apologise here because we're going to do a conversation that we've done a few times before but I think it's important for those maybe that Haven't watched as much women's football to get into Serena Vigman's finishes or game changers Discussion Tom. Can you just outline for people that maybe haven't seen so much of this? What Serena Vigman tends to do and how she tends to view

what Serena Vigman tends to do and how she tends to view players that are coming on and why she doesn't call them subs or reserves. Yeah there's been an approach to this that reminds me a little bit of rugby union and there are players in the squad who know their role is going to be as what England are dubbing a finisher, somebody who comes on to finish the game and they're treating that role as almost of equal importance because of the different impact that you can have either tactically or physically at certain points in the game and what Serena Vigman has done during her tenure both firstly as the Netherlands head coach and then now more

recently as the England head coach has been relatively consistent with a starting 11 for almost all of her major tournament matches and there have been players in squads who won't play at all and there have been players in squads who will only play as substitutes but though they all seem to know their role and respect their role and I'll never forget the the image after the final three years ago of Bethany England who hadn't played a single minute running straight to hugs or in a big minute full-time time after the win and sort of feeling part of it. And that probably gives you a good example.

But what it's led to here in this tournament that has helped England so much is that I genuinely think they have the strongest bench in the tournament. There's nobody else who could bring on, for example, a winger of the quality of Chloe Kelly in I think in almost every other country she would be starting and what that's given them is that that game-changing impact to do and the two crosses she delivered for the two England goals against Sweden are the perfect example and what England did which France didn't have last night for example was England have a plan B and a plan C and

different ways they can try and get something out of a game. Whereas France, I think, only really had one plan. And when it wasn't working, they ran out of ideas. I totally agree with what Tom said. It's having that real clarity and that great level of communication from the manager. And then that manager giving you that sense of belief that when you are called upon at any point, you know, you can be free, you can

showcase your talent and you're loved and you're appreciated and she does really appreciate every single individual whether, you know, from number one to 23 no matter if you're starting or if you are a finisher or you don't make any minutes. So yeah, for those finishers that are able to come on, they can just have a sense of freedom to showcase their talent and just show the world and be able to just impact the game so efficiently. And that's what Chloe Kelly did on that left-hand side. You know, she's cutting in on her right foot

and just delivering two unbelievable crosses into the box, which is what we were crying out for in the game. And then, you know, you've got Lucy Bronze going on the end of one, and then you've got obviously Beth Mead contesting and then you've got Michelle Ajiman in there to tap it in. Such an amazing talent, three caps, two goals. What else do you want really? An absolutely amazing wild card. So yeah, I think it comes down to clarity in your role, communication, but then having and knowing that your manager has so much belief and love for you as a player as well. It was wonderful to watch Michelle Adjiman get that goal.

She seems to have this calmness and composure that maybe comes with being young and a little bit inexperienced, hasn't had the chance to learn that fear of big occasions. Just quickly, I feel like we have to touch on Lucy Bronze, and I know that she's had so much celebration, people have talked about her so much since the game, but I'm trying to think, Tom, of a more Lucy Bronze game that I've seen. It felt like that environment and that style of game was just perfection for her. Yeah, she completely refused to go home in so many different ways. And as Morgan described her as a bit of a freak

in that sense of the mentality, almost like a mentality monster. But the way she, even when it was when she was applying her own bandage to strap around her thigh, you know, when she was down, needing a little bit of medical attention or to when she ripped it off again before scoring her penalty. All of it was so symbolic of a career that has just been defined by immense drive and

work rate and determination and focus. And her penalty was struck so clinically and emphatically that there was nobody who would save that. It was the perfect, you're right, it was the perfect Lucy Bronze performance. What I do think we'd need to say that amongst all of this deserved praise for everybody on the England team who for the way they refused to die and the way they fought back, we cannot forget how lucky England are to still be in this tournament. Once you reach a point where Sweden had two kicks to go through,

it's kind of out of your hands at that point. So they've kind of been given a second life in this tournament, a second chance, and the need to grab it with both hands. The Football Daily Podcast with Ben Haynes at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at Land Rover.ca From my very first game I knew that I wanted to be a goalkeeper. The buzz and the adrenaline that I got from it.

The dream was to always represent my country. Marriott desperate to impress. I remember saying I know I've got what it takes. You have to be obsessed. Marriott, desperate to impress. I remember saying, I know I've got what it takes. And crucial save from us. You have to be obsessed. Marriott to the surface here. You just look at some of the saves that she makes. Not everyone can do that.

I really had no idea really how far I would go. England around dawn of the dead. It felt like my world was ending. That was the moment I was in pieces on the kitchen floor. You have to hit rock bottom to understand what you really want. Mary would put herself in front of anything and feel like she could stop it. I've done something that I've always dreamed of doing. I never knew if I would get the opportunity to do it.

Mary Earps, Queen of Stops. Watch on BBC iPlayer. The Football Daily Podcast with Ben Haynes at UEFA Women's Euro 2025. Let's just quickly touch on what England will need to do against Italy. And Tom, I want to go back to the conversation that we were just having there, because yes, Sweden had chances, but it's perhaps recurring themes that bring those chances about. We definitely saw that in the France game as well.

Yes, and what will be different against Italy, don't want to jinx it, but Italy don't have the same pace threat that France and Sweden offered not just through Black Stenius but also out on the wings and particularly those those France wingers who were who were so you know electric with their their pace and intensity I don't think that'll be quite the same against Italy it's across this tournament so far actually it's here only rank 11th of the 16 teams

for the average possession whereas England a second behind Spain so I would expect England to have a huge amount of the ball. From watching obviously being at that Italy-Norway game Tom would you say that they have that physicality? I definitely feel like they've got that passion and intensity that we've seen from other teams when England have faced them. They certainly have the they have the intensity in midfield to overrun Norway, that's for sure, but whether they can do it against players of the calibre of George Stamway and Kiera Walsh, I think that's still to be seen. It's only around 16 months ago that England scored seven goals past Italy in a

friendly down in Alta Sierras in the south of Spain when the two teams looked miles apart. Italy have improved vastly since then. My main worry for Italy, if you come at it from a neutral perspective, is they celebrated the quarter-final win like they'd won their final. Like psychologically, I was in the press conference room, all the quotes were talking about disbelief at how they'd achieved their dream, their dream to get to the semi-final. We can't believe we're in Europe's top four. Like we've done it, it's amazing, which they, and rightly so, they've performed wonderfully to get this far, but it felt psychologically like they, they felt they, they'd achieved what they'd come for now and that this is now more like a free hit, whereas England are coming into this with like,

job's not done, focus determined, we're here to work, try and win the trophy, and I'm fascinated now to see how those two mentalities play out, But if I was an England player, I think some of the things Italy were saying would be music to my ears. That first semi-final Tuesday at 8 o'clock, England against Italy. The second semi-final will be Germany against Spain. Now we'll come on to Spain in a second, but Tom, just talk us through this performance from Germany last night against France. They go through on penalties, but down to 10 players for the vast majority of the game and just some unbelievably good defending and organisation and structure from that Germany side.

Yeah, I was in awe of the way they played with 10 players. I think everyone's misconception was that there was going to be an inevitability that eventually France would overrun, Germany they would tire, they would find a way through, and yet Germany was so resolute and so resilient. No thanks to Hendrik, who frankly has done one of the daftest things I've seen at any Euros, yanking an opponent's hair like that so blatantly in the penalty box. The German coach afterwards sort of said he hadn't seen it and didn't want to comment. I suspect that's just to be politically correct because he didn't want to swear in anger in the press conference because it was such a

daft thing to do from one of the most experienced players on the pitch, a 33 year old, and then but the way that the players left responded they were thoroughly deserving of their victory. Just to go back to the red card, and then this is two bizarre red cards in two games for Germany with Wamsa making a handball on the line against Sweden when they were only, I think, 2-1 down at the time. Is this a disciplined thing or is this just two strange incidents that have happened in two games that you do just sometimes get in football? The handball one, I do have a bit of sympathy because I feel like I might have done something since, no, I haven't done that but I feel like I would have kind of gone, she had kind

of no other Issue of what she's gonna go. There we go. Everybody. There's a goal If I feel like she kind of was just trying to like I don't know just do something to help her team Hendrick one. Oh, what are you doing? I think that's one absolutely ridiculous That's outrageous. And I think you know, it deserves a sending off For me what just blew my mind was that she was really contesting it. I'm thinking, no. Really not happy.

As if she hadn't done anything. In fact, you've clearly pulled her hair. It's a penalty and a sending off. So I think, yeah, for that one, it's just outrageous. I think they obviously, they have to keep 11 players on the pitch when they face Spain. That's got to be the main priority for them. You don't get away with it against Spain, do you?

You do not get away with playing with 10 players and this is one of the things we'll come into shortly this idea of 10 v 11 but perhaps the one thing we can be grateful for there is that it teed up Tom one of the most amazing defensive performances and one of the most wonderful goalkeeping performances that perhaps we've ever seen. Yeah and Katrin Berger wonderful goalkeeping performances that perhaps we've ever seen. Yeah and Katrin Berger, someone we know so well from the success she had in the WSL, put in one of the performances of her lifetime last night. There were already quite good saves earlier on from Cascarino, from Koshawi, there was also good save from Kototo, but then the save to stop the Ma own goal, which everybody in the stadium,

I think was certain was going in. It was a little bit reminiscent of, for older listeners, a David Seaman FA Cup save at Sheffield United a long time ago, where the ball was behind both Seaman and in this case Berger, but somehow she managed to get her to leap behind get that one arm to claw it back off the line with just a jaw-dropping

save that nobody in that stadium would ever forget how good that save was and she was fully deserving of the prether match and then to go and save two penalties as well in the shootout and score her own penalty with a level of class on the strike that was unsavable. She was the star of the show. I think as well with Anne that the previous game she didn't have an amazing game. She made quite a few mistakes so that mentality to turn up and perform the way that she did is quite phenomenal. And credit to her and her mentality and who she is as a person.

I got the privilege of being a teammate at Birmingham and I saw this all the time, just her ability, her technical ability, her mentality, the way that she can use her body and make outrageous saves. But the thing I love about Anne the most, the way she stands when someone's taking a penalty with her hands behind her back, she's the coolest person on that pitch. I just love everything about her, her attitude, just the way that she conducts herself. She's one of the, I think, up there with one of the world's best goalkeepers at this moment in time and I'm so happy for her showcasing it here at the Euros but that save was absolutely outrageous. I don't know, I can't think on top of my head currently what player, what goalkeeper would be able to do that save in this Euros at the moment.

Perhaps people might not know about Anne Katrines Berger's journey and the fact that she's recovered from thyroid cancer as well and is now in this position and still turning out performances like this makes it all the more special. If you do want to know a little bit more about her journey do check out Emily Sally's article on the BBC Sport website just talking through her journey from recovering from cancer to now one of as we said the the best gulking performances we've seen at a major tournament. It truly was remarkable last night and I just wanted to go back on the save that Tom mentioned, because it is the save of the tournament so far. But Ellen, what is the most impressive part of that save?

Why is it so good? I just think it's her footwork, but then her athletic ability and her strength, I would say in her shoulders and arm to be able to not only manipulate her body to go almost behind her, but be able to get her arm in a position and claw it backwards, the ball, and out of the goal. It's quite outrageous and ridiculous for a goalkeeper to be able to do that when it pretty much looks like a goal, an own goal is definitely gonna happen and to just claw it out of absolute no man's land

is unbelievable. So it's credit to her, her physical condition, her ability, you know, her gymnastics-esque kind of goalkeeping style. Yeah, I just think it was unbelievable that she was able to pull that off in such a dramatic fashion in where the game was. And it was the second half of extra time as well wasn't it so it's just absolutely wild.

And Germany will now face Spain, Spain who perhaps not quite as convincing as we were expecting them to be against Switzerland but I wonder how much of that was down to Switzerland really rising to the occasion Ellen as well. You know I've really enjoyed watching Switzerland this, not only obviously being a host nation, have an amazing kind of fan base as well, but some of them young players, and the way that Pia Senghar set up her team and that game plan against Spain,

the physicality being able to try and counteract Spain, especially when they have so many bodies going forward to be able to use those wide spaces, but then put Benet a little bit higher and using her pace. And I feel like every player just raised their levels. I think at the end of the day it was just Spain's quality shone through as a couple of kind of mistakes from Switzerland at the end of the day. But I think they've got to be proud of themselves the way they conducted each individual, the game plan, the execution of the game plan but I just think at the end

of the day in Spain were just, you know, they've got just some quality world-class players and yeah, it was just an unbelievable performance from Switzerland I would say. Do you expect them to go over the line against Germany Tom? I think it could be really close but yes, my own gut feeling is that Spain will come through that game largely because of the physical exhaustion that 120 minutes, about 107 of which with 10 players will have impacted on Germany physically for their recovery.

And Spain are still the technically strongest team in terms of skill on the ball in the tournament. What will be interesting though is that they have looked vulnerable to pace on the break, particularly with their centre backs. And that's something that Germany can offer as a threat definitely. And it's something that we've seen, even Belgium, able to get a couple of goals against Spain albeit they conceded six at the other end, but I could foresee that Germany could cause

them quite a lot of problems. My gut feeling is that eventually Spain's quality on the ball will shine through enough for them to get through and you would sort of now maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves but that prospect of like an England-Spain final, repeat of the world cup final that's starting to maybe present itself is already tantalizing for this tournament. The prospect of what that could be like next weekend. Now to finish up, I have to ask, and I'm, I'm sorry to do this to both of you, but I need to sort of put you on the spot.

What is going on with penalties at this tournament? Ellen's got her head in her hands. And the thing is, Ellen, this is a really interesting question to ask you because I remember there was so much discussion around you before, wasn't there? People asking why you weren't taking penalties or whether you should have been taking penalties at a certain point. Something that I feel like I've picked up or seen is that goalkeepers are committing very, very early at the moment. People are making their choice of which way they're going to go.

We've all seen the water bottles by the side of the goal in shootouts where everyone's sort of done their research and they know where players usually go. But I feel like goalkeepers are committing very early in this tournament and we're seeing them just say, you know what, if I go the wrong way and the player scores, fine, but they're moving and taking big steps in the direction they're going to go at quite an early point. Potentially it's something to be able to cover the goal a bit more maybe, they're committing that way, obviously they're looking at who the opposition is, who the player is and they've done their research of potentially what way they're going, the percentage of which direction

and they're just committing full-heartedly. I've also noticed the player taking the penalty as soon as the referee blows the whistle. They're taking the penalty quite quickly. They're almost like not taking a breath during their process. I'm not saying I'm a penalty expert because I did actually hate taking them, but I would have tried to stick my hand up much as I hated it, but it's a hard one because it's really, it is. I feel like everyone says, oh, it's so easy taking a penalty, but you cannot replicate playing 120 minutes and then standing up with the pressure and having the mentality to be able to obviously go and score a goal.

There's so much that comes into it. So yeah, I'll always give my praise to anyone that sticks their hand up and wants to take a penalty. And then you mentioned before process and people being almost rushed. Like one of the penalties that we've seen incredibly well taken was Chloe Kelly's. And when you watch that back, she didn't miss a beat of her process, did she?

Spinning the ball on the spot, taking her time, almost a little smile at the goalkeeper as well. How crucial is it to make sure in that situation that you do just go back to square one and almost try and block out everything else which is around you even though, like you said, it's almost impossible to replicate? Yeah, no, I think it comes down to experience and working out what works for you and going through maybe trying something that hasn't quite worked, does that process work, but Chloe's been doing that kind of penalty for years now and it feels like she's really honed in on what works

for her. We had quite a lot of young players taking penalties and obviously it's the pressure, it's potentially going through to a semi-final and I think it will be a lot of learnings from a lot of those players of what worked from what didn't, how to best prepare for a next penalty shoot out if it was to come, did that process work, maybe I need to adapt it. But yeah, I think it just comes down to what works individually for you, but again, it's so hard to replicate it. You can't replicate 20, 30,000 in a stadium playing that amount of minutes and then standing there in front of a goalie with the pressure of potentially

you know going through knocking yourselves out. It's a real challenge so yeah, it's a hard one, but it does come repetition, repetition, just loads of practice. I'm waiting with baited breath to see the first goalkeeper that goes up and picks the opposition goalkeeper's water bottle and throws it away like Emi Martinez did. We've seen those close-ups so much now of every single penalty that's been taken by every single member of the opposition squad. I'm desperate to see a little bit of gamesmanship there, potentially in the semi-finals if they do go to pens. That's where we'll leave it on the Football Daily for today.

Thank you so much, Helen. Thank you so much, Tom. Take care. We'll speak very, very soon. On the next Football Daily, it's Steve Crossman with the Euros Monday nightclub. Don't forget, full coverage of both semi-finals on 5 Live Build Up from 7pm with both kick-offs at 8pm.