Football Daily - Women’s Euros: The Preview

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Katie Smith looks ahead to UEFA Women’s EURO 2025, which starts on Wednesday. She’s joined by England’s all-time record goalscorer Ellen White, former Scotland all-rounder Jen Beattie and The Guardian’s Tom Garry. Also hear from former Switzerland goalkeeper Kathrin Lehmann, Nordic football expert Mia Eriksson, Norway boss Gemma Grainger, former Spain midfielder Vicky Losada, French football expert Julien Laurens & Dutch journalist Rivkah op het Veld.01:45 Hosts Switzerland missing a key player, 08:15 Eight-time winners Germany into a new era? 11:30 What about the Scandinavian teams? 13:25 Norway boss Gemma Grainger INTERVIEW, 17:40 Can Sweden finally go that final step? 21:30 Will world champions Spain break their Euros duck? 30:30 Italy being tipped to go far in group with Portugal & Belgium, 32:45 Is Group D the group of death? 33:50 French squad selection raises questions, 40:10 Netherlands’ head coach isn’t happy, 46:00 England going in as defending champions, 50:05 Wales going in as tournament debutants.BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Sat 2000 England v Germany in UEFA U21 Final, Sun 1700 England v Jamaica in women’s friendly, Wed 1700 Iceland v Finland on Sports Extra 2, Wed 2000 Switzerland v Norway on 5 Live, Thu 2000 Spain v Portugal on 5 Live.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Welcome to The Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you inside Formula One and Red Bull Racing like never before. And I'm Matt Magindy. And thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal with Red Bull Racing this season. And this week I'll be answering your questions and you can literally ask me anything. I just think Matt will probably regret that. 2023 Dutch Grand Prix, I think it was practice,

he crashed and he left one hand on the steering wheel, he'd end up breaking his wrist. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the inside track, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast. Women's Euros 2025 starts on Wednesday. 16 teams, 31 matches across eight venues in Switzerland, over 700,000 fans inside those stadiums.

And of course, as ever, 26 days of live coverage for you here on Five Lives Sport. Hopefully you can get as excited as we are for kickoff in six days' time. And along the way, hopefully we can surprise you with some things you maybe didn't know about the tournament as well and the teams taking part and the players that will be in action. So no pressure on us this evening and helping me in that task. We've got England's all-time record scorer Ellen White, former Scotland all-rounder, defender, midfielder, she's a striker as well, Gem Beatty, and women's football writer for the Guardian Tom Garry. Evening to you all. Good evening. Good evening. Evening. Just to guide you through the groups then. So we got four

groups of four, Group A Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Finland, Group B Spain, the world champions Portugal, Belgium and Italy with them. Then we got Group C, which is Germany, Poland, Denmark, Sweden, and then Group D, which has France and the Netherlands and then England and debutantes Wales as well. So it all gets underway next Wednesday. That is July the 2nd with Group A. So Iceland all gets underway next Wednesday, that is July the second with group A. So Iceland against Finland live on SportsX2 for you. That one kicks off at 5pm followed by the host nation Switzerland taking on Norway at 8 o'clock on 5 live. Full commentary of that to come and therefore where better to start than with the host and delighted

that joining us this evening is former Switzerland and Bayern Munich goalkeeper, Kathrin Lehmann. Evening, Kathrin. Good evening. Oh, that's the kind of energy we want to start the show. Yeah, we just won our last friendly game, so we are happy. So you can ask me any questions. Amazing. Well, actually, that's quite an important question then, because Form had been looking a little bit ropey for Switzerland. So how important is that? Oh, it was so important.

It was kind of an icebreaker. Like we won 4-1 against Czechia and at least the feeling that we can score a goal was great. I mean, we just got four. So we are in a good mood, but we all know, you know Switzerland, we know we have not that a good team like England has. But you know, we have, I think, the best fans. And now it's a little bit, it was so important for the whole enthusiasm in Switzerland that it was a good game.

Well, it's not a good game, but a lot of goals. I'm wondering if you can help us understand just how much of a loss Ramona Bachmann is to the host nation, such a legend of the Swiss team, not being able to play with injury. How big a blow has that been in the build-up? Wow, that is a huge loss. We have two names that you really know. It's Ramona Bachmann and Lia Veltti.

Maybe the biggest player we ever had was Lara Dickinman. But I mean Ramona Bachmann, everyone knows her besides Alicia Lehmann. And Ramona, she's even if she's in her mid 30s, she's still maybe one of the best players still. And she's one that can score goals. And now and you know, we are not a country, a soccer, female soccer country that has a lot of great players that we can hold on. So it's kind of like losing our identity or losing Ramona Bachmann. Jen, I just wondered your thoughts. Catherine mentioned there, Lea Valti of Arsenal, she feels so imperative to how Switzerland might get on and feels maybe an irreplaceable member of this side.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think I know Finewell, the kind of quality that she brings. And look, as a centre-back as well, from my perspective, when you have a midfielder like that, that's willing to get on the ball and really connect the back forward to your forward line. So important. I mean, everyone knows who's watched her play for Arsenal over so many years, the quality that she can bring and again to an international level. She's the nation's captain and it's not even just that. It's off the pitch. The kind of level-headed person that she is, I think is the kind of character that youngsters will look to. She's the leader that any club team or nationality is lucky to have. So I know she's had a really, really difficult season with injuries and being in and out and

struggled to find that consistency. And don't get me wrong, going into a tournament, that's really difficult mentally, but she's come back, she's fit, she's ready to go. And I think she's done that in really good timing. But you're spot on. I think when you're missing big players, to have someone like that fit and ready to go is so important for the team. What do you think expectations are, Catherine, in Switzerland? Well, you know, you were talking about the death group, group D, and I don't think it's the death group. For me, it's clear it's France and England. The death group is group A because all four countries are on the same level right maybe Norway is the one that you have to say well that that country

should go on but you don't know what's going on in this group so we are kind of happy being in that group that we don't have a very big one that you kind of, you know, have to go in as a way we need a miracle to win. So the expectations is we want to see the team putting their hearts on the field and be creative. We know we don't have much football quality in that team, but we have a lot of heart and that's all we want to have. And in this group, even if you lose maybe one game, you're still able to go on. So I think, well, you know, as a host country, you always have to say, we will go on. Ellen, how different is it going into a tournament when you are part of the host nation? Did

you feel a difference last time out? I think it was just excitement, to be honest, maybe a little bit of pressure, but I think for Switzerland it's about them just embracing it and enjoying it and just thriving and especially every group game just to embrace the fans and the atmosphere. I think they'll drive them and hopefully, you know, for the tournament and hopefully for Switzerland, they're able to progress. And I think they've got some really amazing talent. Catherine, you'll say if I get this right. Iman Beni, I think she's very good. Really exciting prospect. Obviously Man City have just signed her. And then Sydney Schötenleib, is that right?

Schötenleib, Sydney Schötenleib. Okay, that's a better accent, thank you. I think it's just really exciting talent and could just absolutely kind of explode into kind of this major tournament. So I feel like, you know, you've got some really amazing talent and hopefully all the players will just embrace

being that host nation and just absolutely thrive. Well, I hope so too. We also have Iveloli or Luiye. So we have four or five very young, talented players at the age of 18, 19, 20. So maybe for those players the tournament is coming too early. But we have a problem. We really have a lack of good players at the age between 23 and 30. So we have the very old ones like Valdi, Bachmann and Giorno Gociewicz, which is also known, but we have nothing in between. So, and since Bachmann broke away, it's kind of Liya Valdi, the only Matterhorn we have, and the young ones kind of try to build their own little mountains. So I hope they really can, like

you said, enjoy it and grow just from the inside, being proud of experiencing that tournament. That's what I really hope. I feel like you're also painting a great picture of Switzerland for us, Katrin, with the mountains and the lakes. And I know the England Hotel, we were talking about this earlier on, it's in a stunning part of Switzerland, New Zealand, isn't it? And you were saying you absolutely have to go and visit that. So I'm quite looking forward to spending a bit of time there. But I want to talk to you about Germany as well.

So they're in group C, so away from Switzerland, Germany alongside Poland, Sweden and Denmark, eight time winners, most successful women's team in the competition's history. And they are scoring like scoring is going out of fashion right now, Gabyr. Well yeah, Germany has a fantastic offensive game. They have very different players, different character of players. Interesting that Non is playing in England, so it's going to be great if there will be the showdown between England and Germany maybe sometime at this tournament. So Germany won the bronze medal at the Olympics, but they still have something, a deep frustration deep inside after going home after group stage at the World Championship 2023. So I think it's a mix between

offensive talent and frustration, what they will show on the field to make something good again. Yeah, and I think we saw a little bit of that when they played in that friendly against England in October last year. Yeah, that was a cool game. 4-3, absolutely bonkers at Wembley. Catherine, it's been great to have you with us this evening. So we'll see you out in Switzerland. Yes, we do. Enjoy.

Danke schön. Danke auch. Tschüss. From Switzerland, by Munich goalkeeper, Catherine Lehmann. Interesting there, her thoughts on Germany, Tom, and potentially that scarring left behind of that shock World Cup exit as well. Yeah, but they're into a new era now. They kind of had a big refresh. My only worry for them is maybe has this come a little bit too soon for this younger crop? Maybe they need

one more tournament in them to go all the way, but they've got quite a lot in their favour. I'm curious to know what the rest of the team think about this, but I read into the pathway quite a lot and the potential routes to the final, maybe too much. But if the winners of the Germany group and the winners of group A that we were just talking about would meet in the semi-final and in the first semi-final, which is crucial. And in major tournaments on all different sizes, the winners of the first semi-final most routinely go on to win the whole tournament because of that extra day's rest. And I think these stats might shock you a little bit actually. It's the last four men's Euros, the winner of the first semi-finals won the final. The last three Men's World Cups, the last three Women's

World Cups and in the last four of the last five times it's been possible it's happened in the Women's Euros as well. I say that because eight years ago it was, they played them on the same day, so I'm not counting that. But it's basically every time we've had a major tournament, Men's or Women's, in the last 15 years, the winner of the first semi-final has won the tournament and that could well be Germany this time around. You just ruined it all now, sorry Tom. Everyone's got their big stickers with all the fixtures on just down a big cross to strike through that. That is remarkable though.

That's a great stat that. Yeah. That's crazy. Wow, okay. Well, let's circle that first semi-final and then should we just pack up and leave after that? It's a fascinating thing for football though, isn't it? Because understandably you can't have the two semi-finals on the same day because you want the TV audience, don't you? On both. But from a kind of sporting fairness, you really do want them on the same day. But anyway,

that's just my... Well, please stick with us because we are doing commentary at the final. Whoever gets there, stick with us. Five live, that's coming up later in July. So we're going to talk Scandinavia now. So five out of the 16 qualified sides in the finals are Scandinavian, which makes up just less than a third of all the teams. So to run through them, we've got Finland, Iceland and Norway in group A alongside host Switzerland. Denmark and Sweden go alongside Germany and Poland in Group C. So joining us now to let us know who has the best chance in the tournament then and guide us through all we need to know. Nordic football expert Mia Eriksson. Mia, I don't think you'd say any of those

sides I've just listed have come into this in scintillating form. No, I can agree with you on that. But I mean, obviously I'm quite happy at the moment because I just saw Sweden 1-2-0 against Norway in Norway. It was a good rehearsal for Sweden, but not for Norway. I think the Norwegian people have a lot to think about after that game. We should talk about Norway then and maybe Tom, I'll bring you in first because I think they're a team that you've got tipped to be maybe dark horse in this competition, which seems ridiculous considering their history and what they've done.

Yeah, they've been some, but I caveat that with they've been a team that I think a lot of us have tipped to do well in lots of tournaments in a row and then they've got this knack of not really clicking in the group stage. They've actually played the hosts a remarkable number of times in my last few tournaments. They of course had the host nation in the World Cup in New Zealand and lost to New Zealand, which was a big shock. The squad's really good. I think they have got a bright young coach in Gemma Granger, but the results recently haven't really been clicking. It's a massive opportunity for them because somebody from ... One of the teams in group A and B who isn't Spain, one of those

seven teams who isn't Spain, is guaranteed to make the semi-finals and on paper the strongest squad looks like the Norwegians at the moment so it's a big opportunity for them. Well you mentioned Gemma Granger joined the side last year she was in charge of Wales before that and we're gonna hear from her now she's the only English manager involved in the entire tournament. Coming from the outside is I believe one of my biggest strengths because I don't feel the things that they feel. I see the potential in this team.

And I see the potential, like you said, we have many good individuals. And my biggest job here is to make sure I can get the best out of the group. That's my job. When you think about being a football manager in England, there's a lot of exposure and therefore there's a lot of pressure. Talk to me about the football culture in Norway. Yeah it's I guess one of the good things is I can't fully read all of the media so that's that's nice but of course it's the same. Norwegian people are very passionate about football, very

passionate about the national team so for us the the pressure is here. The women's team have qualified for 14 of the last 15 major tournaments. So the history is here and we want to make sure that we do the country proud but also that you see a team that you enjoy watching and a team that you can relate to. The players very much want to be that team because we know what our job is not only on the pitch but outside the pitch as well. So you're part Viking now? Part Viking. You still bring your Yorkshire tea over with you don't you? Listen I am the one thing every camp I bring a box of 250. The players now are drinking it before games. The Yorkshire tea is it's the one thing

that's in the squad. It's the first name on the list is Yorkshire tea. Fair enough. I don't drink tea, so I wouldn't know. But Ellen, I saw you smiling at that. Would you have Yorkshire Tea on your list? Absolutely have to. Yeah. Would you get through 250 bags?

Probably not, but I think the squad would be very happy with that. Mia Eriksson with us and you were listening to that. And Gemma Grange is sort of chuckling off that she can't read all the criticism or maybe the analysis that's been going on in Norway. So obviously you can do that for us. What are people saying about this Norwegian side? Yeah, I think she she should not put in an effort to learn Norwegian language tonight because I just read the news after after this game. And no, I think I agree with what Tom said. They have a great squad on paper, but football is not played on paper. And there's something, it

doesn't click for Norway. Obviously they have a good chance to score against Sweden, but it was never anything dangerous. I think their backline is a big worry. We then had a really good time playing football tonight. You could see that. Their pace in that backline, that's a big worry going into this kind of tournament. We talk about their front lines so much, and yet paradoxically, they're not really scoring much. And that should be when we talk about the backline and the problems that have been there, you'd have thought it'd be the quality upfront that might be saving them in these games. Yeah. And of course you have to have a balance of both, right? You can't rely on either,

whether your defense is incredible or your strikers, it has to be both. But I completely agree with what Mia's saying. I think when you do have the likes of Hegerberg, Hansen, Gurerreit and Frieda Mannum, these are big names that if you are familiar with European football, these are so successful in their likeful clubs. But you have to have a defensive structure that's willing to back it up and pace in the modern game is probably something that every player on the field has to have, especially if you're playing at a major tournament. And of course, Mielda, you know, such an incredible talent,

so much experience, but you're looking at the whole entire backline and it has to be a balance. And you said it yourself, if you're not even scoring goals in order to win a game, because I remember, it was actually Viv Miedema, one's telling me, you know, as long as we score more goals, then the other team will be all right. And I was, it was kind of a bit of a dig at the defense, but she's right.

You know, you have to be scoring goals in order to win games. It sounds silly, but it's so true. And with that kind of talent in that team, you often wonder, right, okay, why is it not clicking? What's the structure? I think Norway's problem, people forget they've actually won the Euros before, so they've had the success. So in order to kind of do that again, they need to find more quality up top, whether

it's clicking or more structure in order to get them in the best possible position. But you're right, with that kind of talent on the pitch, they have to be scoring more goals. Great night for Sweden though, Mia, in terms of coming into this final game before they go to Switzerland. They have been so often the nearly team, I think, Sweden. Could this be their time? Yeah, I think, you know, as a Swede, I think we always put pressure on our national team. But I do think there's one similar thing between Sweden and Norway. And that's what we talked about this when you look at the squad on paper these two teams from the Nordics have really big names and the players play across Europe and the world in really really big teams. So I think right now looking at this Swedish team we're very happy, I'm gonna say we because I speak for the whole Swedish country at the moment. But we are very happy that Stina Blackstienius,

she scored again tonight. Brilliant. Johanna Rytten Conrad has finally gotten some timing in her crosses and cutbacks when she plays in the Swedish national team and her collaboration with Filippa Angeldahl. It's almost magical to watch at the moment. What will it take or what needs to slightly change for Sweden to win, essentially? You know, a number of semi-finals, obviously Olympic silver medalists. What will it take to go that extra step and to win? And is there enough in this squad to do that in this Euros? I think the word I'm looking for to reply your question is consistency, like a hundred percent consistency. Also we all know that we need luck, no injuries and everything like that but I think

that that's what Sweden has been lacking or have misluck with or whatever you want to call it. But I think we have the capacity to do it. So Sweden alongside Denmark, Poland, the debutantes and Germany, the eight time winners in Group C. Mia, great to have you with us this evening. We'll see you out in Switzerland. Have a great evening and enjoy the tournament. I'm sure we will. I just wanted to bring up my favourite Peter Goheardsen memory as well. Do you remember at the World Cup guys when he tried to leave a press conference and he

walked into a cupboard? Do you remember that? That was really good. I hope that's not his legacy because at the moment that is still my number one memory when I've covered Sweden games. I once, after the Women's Champions League final in Eindhoven a couple of years ago, I sort of accidentally walked into Peterhead Gerhardsen in a bar and I spilt his pint of whatever he was having because you know when you sort of turn around and there's someone behind you holding a drink, he obviously had no idea who I was but I apologise profusely but that's my main abiding memory of the poor chap. Did he give you a proper lurk?

Yes, he wasn't particularly happy. But by all accounts, he's a very nice man and he's had a really solid tenure, hasn't he? It's just about that, can they take that next step, which is going to be the most difficult step of all to actually win. And says the donkey for the rough race, Wales take the lead! When we won our qualifier, it felt unbelievable. We're so proud of becoming the first Welsh team to book a spot in an international women's tournament. History is made at last! We're going to the Euros to win and to take our place in history on one of the biggest stages in football. UEFA Women's Euro 2025.

On Five Live and BBC Sounds. Welcome to The Inside Track with me, Rick Edwards. This is the podcast that takes you inside Formula One and Red Bull racing like never before. I'm Matt Magindy. Thanks to my exclusive access, I'll be getting up close and personal with Red Bull racing this season. This week, I'll be answering your questions and you can literally ask me anything. I think Matt will probably regret that. 2023 Dutch Grand Prix, I think it was practice. He crashed and he left one hand on the steering

wheel and ended up breaking his wrist. Experience Formula One like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. Onto groups B and D then, World Champion Spain. Many have them as favourites, but actually Tom, their Euro's track record isn't actually all that strong, is it? Yeah, they've never been to a final. They've only been to a semi-final once and they actually

haven't qualified very many times. They're still a relatively new team in the kind of upper echelons of European women's football. But they go into this as the favourites. They've got technically the best squad, that enormous cohort of Barcelona stars all play together. And significantly since the World Cup win, they've welcomed back Patrick Grigliaro, who I think most people would agree is right up there and probably the top three midfielders in the world, maybe the top four midfielders in the world coming in makes them stronger. They haven't looked invincible under Montse Tomy. They had a few iffy results, but I think it's very hard to look past them. At the very least, going to the latter stages and having a really strong campaign just because of the quality in the squad and they've had

a relatively kind draw. Emma Watson-Lewis That core of Barcelona players, Jen, as well, is something we've talked about before, but it feels so essential. I suppose actually we've talked about it a little bit with England as well, with that sort of Chelsea spine to the team and now the Arsenal players and what they, the success they had in the Champions League final. But if we focus in on the Barcelona players, just how often they play together, how instinctively they know each other at this point.

Exactly. And look, going back to Tom's point, I totally get that perspective where if you look on they're relatively a new team, but they're a new team still doing it or playing football the most beautiful way that every team is now aspiring to try and do. And the reason it's working is because you said it yourself, these players have been playing alongside each other, playing and training inside out every single day since they were a really young age at, like you said, Barcelona academies or academies across Spain.

So you're now seeing a style of football that wasn't built overnight. It's been a case of over a number of years training every day alongside each other. And it is a credit to Barcelona and what they've built. And you know, you're looking at teams that are so used to playing the style away that a lot of other teams try and play and try and coach this back foot receiving, changing, interchangeable movements, but they do it so flawlessly. I think you're right.

The Arsenal-Barcelona matchup in the European Women's Champions League final did kind of show a flaw of how to go and beat them. So I agree. I don't think they are... Do I think they'll have a hundred percent record going through the tournament? Maybe not. You obviously need to do that to win it. But are they beatable? Yeah, because teams can defend well and go and counter on the other side. But do I think they've got the best players in the whole tournament? Absolutely. Ballon d'Or winners in the midfield, Paredes, Alexandre at the back from back, Catacoll in the net as well, from back to

front they have got world class players and that is what you need to go and win a tournament. My one thing would be do they have an out and out number nine to score consistently goals? They have obviously players from out wide, obviously we saw Claudio Pina who I absolutely love from Barcelona, but do they have, and I think maybe that's been an issue for them, that out and out nine? So I would say Esther off the back of that would be my one. Do you think she's scored consistently? She's scoring consistently now, yeah. I think she's having the season of her life out in

the NWSL for Gotham. She scored I think seven in the opening seven games I think it was in the NWSL for Gotham. So if you're looking at her current form, she's doing very well over here and I don't think that maybe is seen as much over in Europe because time difference and all these different reasons like that. But if you're talking about a nine that suits their style and is scoring goals and in form, Esther, maybe she might not be in the starting lineup every single time, but if the nine is what you're describing that's on form and scoring goals, I think she's the best or as the nine is what you're describing that's on farm and scoring goals, I think she's the best or as close as to what you're describing.

Well listening into that discussion was Spain midfielder Barcelona's eternal captain Vicky Lassada. Evening Vicky, does Spain have an out and out number nine? Good evening everyone. Well, I think I've just heard Biti there talking about Esther and I think it's true she's having a really good season. But that position, there's been questions about it for years. What is true that the girls around Esther create a lot and probably she's one of the best players inside the box. Before we get back into the football stuff, and I know we've promised to talk mostly about

football tonight, but I think the Spain story, Vicky, comes with those shadows of what happened at the World Cup. And we've had an addition in the last couple of days, just yesterday, Luis Rubiales losing an appeal against his sexual assault conviction. This was the unconsenting kiss on Yenny Hemoso after they won. Even at this point, two years on Vicky, how much is this still disrupting the way we talk about the Spanish side? Well, there was a press conference yesterday actually here in the Spanish camp and there was a few questions about it. And I think the girls finally wanted to like basically put the end of to that story. I think they're going to a big

championship like this, the Euros coming up in a good place. They're all saying that they're they're going to be able to perform but also enjoy, which is one thing that they haven't done in the last two big championships. And they don't want to talk any more about it. They said that they have confidence with the new manager and that they're ready for it. Will Barron Vicky, how well do you think Spain as a country has capitalized on that historic World Cup win? Here in England we've seen such improvements for the women's game since England won the European Championship. What's it been like in Spain in the growth of the sport since the World Cup?

Vicky Paz Well, sadly, it hasn't improved much. Actually, Aitana said it yesterday and they were basically complaining about the lack of competitiveness in the Spanish league. They said that that doesn't help them and basically whoever is making them decisions, maybe a good idea is to look at the big leagues like in England where they have less teams but more competitive. And it's sad because you have Ballon d'Or, you have so much talent and the league is in a moment where it's a bit stuck. The narrative in Europe is that Spain are the best footballing playing team. I was wondering if the narrative in Spain

is are there anyone in the rest of Europe who Spain fear from a football perspective? You know what, maybe because this is what I'm going to say is because I'm Spanish, but I do believe that teams can beat them. I actually think that sometimes teams have too much respect for Spain and instead of focusing on the strengths of every team they might focus a lot on wow they have two ball on doors they're really good on the ball but you know every single team have weaknesses and probably Spain the strengths that Spain has is true that they are unique they rest with the ball not many teams are able to rest with the ball, being confident on the ball. But they're not confident and they're very uncomfortable without the ball.

But the question for me is, is there any team that is brave enough to take the ball from the Spanish team and try to play football? I wonder as well, Jen, if there is that sense of revenge as well with the Champions League final? Just in general, but then if England were to play Spain, would that be a genuine part of it? A revenge to, you know, avenge that club side of things, but with them being such a huge part of the Spanish side to kind of right the wrongs? Yeah, I mean, I think regardless if you're playing for club or country, I think if you're playing against players that you've lost

against or beat, there's definitely an element no matter what jersey they're wearing, right? Whether it's Arsenal or Barcelona or England or Spain and I do completely understand what you're saying. Barcelona were well and truly expected to win the Champions League. Arsenal were huge underdogs but Arsenal played the perfect 90 minutes where they played this very well defensive and got them on the counter. And I think if England were to come up against Spain, I'd go as far as saying I think it would be a pretty similar game. Culturally, styles of play, players that are in the squad, but no, you're spot on. I think if you've

lost against someone and you're going to play up against them, you want to beat them no matter what. So of course there's going to be competitive energy there, regardless of the stage going into the Euros. Are they going to win? They, they, they, I mean, it's really difficult, you know, like, after the Euros, it's such a short competition, you know what I mean? So a small mistake, but I'm going to say that my ones are England, Germany and Spain. I might download that noise as a ringtone. I quite enjoyed that.

Vicky, go well over the next few weeks. Thanks for your time this evening. Thank you everyone. Thanks Vicky. Vicky Lazada joining us. I thought if we just have another look at one of the other teams in Group B, Tom, Italy, who are, they're really interesting side Italy when you look at one of the other teams in Group B, Tom, Italy. They're really interesting side Italy when you look at recent performances at major tournaments, but this now revamped looking side who have been beating the likes of Spain and Germany and the Netherlands and it feels like there's a quiet excitement there.

Yeah, Italy, perennial underachievers in women's major tournaments have actually, I think, really embraced the Nations League, this sort of new format that we've had since the last Euros. And they, yeah, they brought in a bit of sort of fresh blood as well. You know, Andrea Sansin's kind of regenerated the team a little bit, but they're playing quite nice football. And I spoke to quite a lot of sort of coaches over the last fortnight to prep for this tournament and so many of them are tipping Italy to do really well, which has not been the case before in any tournament I can remember. They played quite well in

the France World Cup 2019, but other than that they've been so disappointing and they come into this in great form. They played very well against Wales. It was a style of play that encouraged me the most. So we mentioned this earlier, but they'll fancy their, if they can get out of the group, they'll really fancy their chances because we know that group A is so relatively weak in terms of like world rankings. And so there's a chance for somebody like Italy to make a real mark on this tournament if they can get out of the group, because it could start to open up for somebody from

those first two groups. And then Portugal, Belgium make up the other nations in that group. Do those other two nations have a chance here in this group? They definitely got a chance, but there's not a lot between the sides. But I worry for Portugal, particularly because we're not sure about the fitness of Kika Nazareth, for example, such an important player for them. And generally a few of their stars in the Portugal team are not quite match fit after injuries. In terms of Belgium, they do feel so reliant on Villa. We saw the difference when England played Belgium and Ashton Gate in April in the home game. They looked miles ahead of Belgium when they were

without Villa. She came back in after a knock for the reverse fixture in Leuven and it was like a totally different team. They had an outball, they had the pace on the counter and she caused Niamh Charles a lot of problems down England's left, Belgium's right. So they've been inconsistent. Realistically, I think it's a tall order for either of those two, you know, given the strength of Spain and as we mentioned, the improvements of Italy. Right. Let's talk group D then group of death. England head to Switzerland as the reigning champions. They have got a big old task to get out the group though. So they are joined by France ranked 10th in the world,

former champions, Netherlands, and major tournament debutants, Wales. Is this the hardest group? I'm gonna say that because I'm English, absolutely, yeah. No, I still think that Germany's with Sweden in their group as well, it's a tough group, see. But yeah, it's a really tough group when you're facing the likes of France and Netherlands, but then I I think One of the hardest games if I'm talking personally from England's point of view

England need to pick up points against France and Netherlands because it Absolutely terrifies me then playing Wales in the last game and having to try and get points because it was such a hard game It will be the the European final for Wales. They've got enthusiasm. You almost don't know at times what you're going to expect. They're going to be competitive. The fans are going to be crazy. So I think that's going to be a real hard test for England. So but then you've got to pick up points against France and Netherlands, which is not an easy task. Not at all. And one man who's going to have an entire household with their eyes firmly glued on the comings and goings in Group D

is Julien Laurent. Good evening, Jules. How are you? Hello, guys. Very good. And you? Very good indeed. So tell us the make-up of the family then. Who supports who? Oh, it's all about France, really.

There's not much for him in our house. Sorry. Now, just because they're not here to speak, come on, tell us. So your wife is Welsh, right? That's right, and the kids were born in London. So it's a mixed house. This is the best draw that we could have hoped for. Yeah, definitely.

Well, that's true. So how are you reading this then in terms of how tough the group is maybe from a French perspective? Yeah, it's tough, especially when you've got a brand new head coach who've never really been in this position suddenly as the number one before in a major tournament. When you're going through quite a big transition that we didn't see coming and we didn't really expect either. So close to the start of the tournament and when you consider the opposition

that you have in this group. So it's probably like bad Christmas coming all at once and that's not really what the French wanted to be honest. But in another way, it's probably in a way not a bad thing because if you go through that group and qualify, then you would have the momentum with you and the confidence and that very positive dynamic. And I think the girls can easily, well not easily, but can easily approach it that way and then try to be at their best to get out of that group. They're on good form. Yes, we've had the earthquake of no less. Oh, lost Jules there. I think he was going to talk about the earthquake,

Ellen, of the missing players. So should we talk about that? Wendy Renard not in the squad, Le Somer not in the squad, Dali not in the squad. Quite surprising, I think, to a lot of people. Yeah, they were not in the squads the previous games before obviously the squad announcement

and obviously the experience, the amount of caps that both La Somera and Renard and the amount of tournaments and just that leadership style is absolutely huge. So to have that completely wiped from your squad is really interesting dynamics to obviously go into this tournament as something completely different. Maybe it's a different culture, different style of play. You know, at the moment they're unbeaten in seven games. So I actually, I think they're in really good form. I think they're ones to watch out for, almost like a dark horse.

I think they're really exciting that we've said so much praise of France before of their talent, but then they just haven't stepped over that mark and got to those finals. And you just want to see those talent to be able to express themselves. So for me, I'm terrified that England and France came to be honest. I think they're in great form and I've loved their frontline. I'm a massive fan of Kototo. I think she's phenomenal. Baltimore's had a great season and Diani's just, the talent up top is scary. You look at France's form, unbelievable, won all six Nations League games coming into this.

And yet the decision not to include the experience when you look at their recent tournament history and as Ellen said, that missing final piece, which you'd surely think the experience of players with so many caps and have been so many tournaments would be so essential in those moments. Oh for sure. I think any national team going into a major tournament has to have experience. I think you have to have a variety of youth mixed with experience. Of course that's the perfect balance. But look, I think the head coach has obviously seen something that's not been quite right. And I know Wendy Renard's obviously had a little bit of an injury come the end of last season, so maybe he wasn't on the best form coming into this summer.

And then you have to look at it from exactly what Ellen said. I think this France national team have always had the talent. They've always been tipped to do well in tournaments but haven't made it to finals and semi-finals consistently enough. And for me, what's the first thing you look at when that doesn't happen? You look at culture, you look at mentality, and they're normally the ones who do you look for when you look to set that are your senior players. They're your experienced players. So maybe there's more than what meets the eye. Maybe there's stuff we're not too sure about, but they've obviously made a really big decision. It's not made a couple of players very happy

that have come out and spoken about it. Kenza Dali was first to share her take on La Sommere not being in the squad and raising her opinion on how a phone call is not quite enough for her experience of her calibre. I completely get that standpoint. But they've obviously seen something and made a big decision. They were also quoted saying insanity is the same, doing the same thing over and over and expecting the same result which I read this morning and thought okay I get it. So they've obviously wanted to be more successful this tournament round and it's a big decision, don't get me wrong. I think Wendy Bernard, I think every centre back in the world has looked up to her as, you know,

a kind of calibre player and it's a huge decision, but one that can't be taken lightly and, you know, we'll see what happens. I've mixed feelings on it. I sort of understand why, you know, because eventually at some point you have to move away from the older guard and move towards the younger team and rip that bandage off, so to speak. And maybe it could help because you do occasionally get cliques, don't you?

And that's certainly been the case with French teams in the past, with little cliques of players. Maybe now with a fresh group, sort of a slightly new start that might be what they need, but they're gonna have to start so well. Like England in the first game, just the calibre of that match is extraordinary for the first match. I agree with what Ellen said. I think the front line is frightening. They're right in the mix

for me to go deep. They absolutely destroyed Belgium 5-0 in a friendly recently and then obviously unbeaten in the Nations League. So something's going right, but have they peaked too early? I hope so. They conceded twice in those six games as well. I know Izzy Christensen was saying on Monday we did an England preview and she said France has certainly heard Dark Horses. So you can listen to that back on BBC sounds if you want a more in-depth look at England. Just say Jules Laron has disappeared. His signal was too bad. Maybe he's on the Euro Star on his way to Switzerland already. But anyway, lovely to hear from him for a couple of minutes.

We love Gilles. We do love Gilles. He's welcome back anytime. We're going to have a look at the other teams in England and Wales's group now. So we've looked at France. We're going to deep dive into Netherlands now. Just before we came on air, actually, I caught up with Dutch women's football journalist Rivke Op Hepveld and asked if group D was also seen as the so-called group of death in the Netherlands as well. Oh, yes, definitely. In Dutch you say de boel des doodts. It translates to the same group of death. It's a hard, hard draw. And our national team coach, Andries Jonker, always

says that he always gets the worst draw. And this is definitely the case for the heroes. And I mean, he is part of the storyline really for the Netherlands this year, isn't he? Because it's going to be his last tournament in charge. He doesn't seem particularly happy about that either Rivka. No, that's true. He had a conversation with the association at the beginning of the year and they told him that they were going to look for someone else, someone that we later now know that is Arjen Vluring, your assistant coach. And yeah, he's unhappy with that. He would have loved to go on until the Brazil World Cup.

And he was hoping that in the meantime, they could find someone and make sure that they are ready in 2027 to take over. But he's not happy. And he's let that be known also in press conferences in the last month. I actually think that now right before the Euros is the first time I feel like he's been getting a switch in his head and actually thinking I need to move forward. And how do the Netherlands go into this tournament then? What is the feeling in the country and around the team?

I mean, it's anyone's guess. If I'm honest, there are some things that they can hold on to. In December, they played the United States and although they lost, they played some of the best football that I've seen them play in years and years. So that's something they can really hold on to. Except for one important player, Lynette Beresteg, it also looks like everyone is fit, which hasn't happened in years. So that's also something to really hold on to. And obviously the Netherlands

is a, it's a tournament squad. They can really go grow into the tournament. On the other side, there's obviously the group of death and the fact that they've had some really difficult moments. They lost 4-0 against Germany last month. They drew against Scotland and yeah, those are the last results and they will definitely be in their head. I've just been looking at Viviane Miedema's records. Of course, one of those stars that was part of the Euros winning squad in 2017. She's on 97 goals for her country. She's still only 28 years old. That's crazy, isn't it? It's absolute madness. But I know something that a lot of English fans will be excited

about is the prospect of Miedema going going up against her partner Beth Mead. Yes, obviously. I think in the Netherlands everyone is also just really excited to have her back because obviously she's been struggling with a lot of injuries and fitness worries. I've seen her train a lot in the last week and although she is not at the fitness level maybe she wants to be, it's looking really good. And I can also tell you that in those trainings, I've seen a bit of the old Miedema, the one that might be one of the best players of the world. I think there's a lot of England and Wales fans listening to that feeling like that's

quite an ominous message to hear her getting back to her best. Before we let you go then, Rivke, what are your predictions for the Netherlands then? How far can this side go? It's very hard, I have to say. I think they are the underdog in this group of deaths, but I somehow have a positive feeling because they can do something special during a tournament. So I'm going to say they're actually going to go through and hopefully make it to a semi-final. It's a positive outlook, I have to say, but I'm going to hold on to it. Well, Wales manager, Rhian Wilkinson has been calling them the underdogs. Now we've got

Netherlands as the underdogs in this group. They're surely not the underdogs, are they? I don't think group of deaf really does it justice. We almost need like a new word, I don't know, like group of calamity or something. I can't think what the right word is, but there's so many groups of death. This is, this is, this is worse than death. You can't understand. I don't think you can ever say how strong the group is. For me, for me, there are six teams with the squads capable to win the tournament, like Spain, England, Germany, Sweden, France and Netherlands. So,

well, does it bring up the question then actually the tournament being only the 16 teams is really the issue? Potentially yeah. There is an argument maybe to branch out towards more. It is a controversial choice going for the nation's league positions rather than the world rankings for the seeding pot. I might sound like a boring here because no one probably wants to see like perfectly symmetrical groups where you've got... But you do. But it's the most lopsided draw I've ever seen.

I just, for listeners who can't see, you're literally sort of enacting the draw with your hands right now. I was in the draw ceremony. I'm loving watching this. This is so fun. At the draw ceremony over in Switzerland in December, there was almost like a gasp in the room as soon as you started to realise, and as soon as the team from the second pot in Group A wasn't in England, you started to realise there was going to be a group that was... this is such a tough group. Can I give you the real... To tell you how

strong the Netherlands and France are and how worried I think I would be if I was the other two teams. We know England have got a wonderful side, but the doomsday scenario for England and Wales is they could both be out before they play each other in the third game. They need to get something from the France and the Netherlands games. They're such strong sides. I don't think that will happen, just to clarify, for the England FA and Welsh FA, like Remy Upp being annoyed. But the first two games for England being France and the Netherlands is such a danger because they're both brilliant football teams and England are going to have to start well to still be in a good position before that Wales game comes around. I'm going to leave you Googling synonyms for calamity as we move on to England now.

So England are going in as the defending champions, of course, won it three years ago. And for Serena Vigman, there's this potential three-peat on the line. So she won it with the Netherlands in 2017, managing them, then won it with the Netherlands in 2017 managing them, then won it with England. And I wonder if we talk about legacy, Ellen, and if she is capable of doing this. It's, I mean, it's it's sort of beggars belief. Obviously, no one's done it before. It would be the most ridiculous achievement. And it must just put her in the next stratosphere of football folklore, right? 100%. She's phenomenal. If she was to be able to, I know there's a lot of things that have

to come together for that to happen, but it would just be so historical, remarkable for someone to achieve that. And I think for female empowerment, for it to be a female coach as well. You know, she has I think really inspired so many coaches managers and and anyone really wanting to get into the sport with with what she's achieved through hard work and Dedication and yeah, I think you know, I'm biased because because you know in serene we trust obviously but you know I I worked for for 10 months with her and I would have loved to have been younger because she's such a phenomenal manager, but she's a phenomenal person, a communicator. She's so tactically on it, her philosophy, the culture she instills

into her team and ethics. Yeah, for her to achieve three European championships in a row is just, it's unthinkable really, isn't it? For someone to be able to achieve that. Mason Higgins The rare thing I've heard about Serena Bigwin, she's very honest and kind of matter of fact and tells players how it is. She doesn't kind of, there's no sentimentality or trying to sort of soften something. She'll just tell you how she sees it. And that might have meant that there was that bit of turbulence in the May-June camp with various players dropping out for various different reasons.

But what it's done for Vigmen now is now they've gone into the St George's Park camp building up to the tournament, it feels like there's almost like a line in the sand now and then all the noises coming out of the camp at the moment are very, very positive. The atmosphere within the group that are there, everything you hear now is actually really, really good. So they've gone from that, it's almost might have helped them that they've had those big- Like the turbulence of it. Yeah. It's helped them to get it, do it in that camp in a weird way. And because if they

had, for example, announced the Eurosquad with Mary-Anne, for example, and then for various different reasons, she'd said, no, I'm going to retire now. It would seep into this camp, whereas actually they seem to have really hit a fresh point. Everything from the open training atmosphere looks really good. The best news for England is the fitness of some of the big players. Lauren Hemp looks in really fresh shape for this tournament. Lauren James as well, starting to really look sharp in training, everyone is saying. That's a really positive thing for Vigman in England. If we look ahead then to England's final warm-up match, we're going to bring you commentary of that against Jamaica in Leicester on Sunday. Are there any big questions still hanging

over what we might see from Serena Vigman going into that? What 11 we might see and will we be reading questions into that? I think everyone's going to be reading questions, aren't they? Of the starting 11, who's she going to start? Is she changing formation? I think the main thing probably would be just to get Lauren James some minutes. She needs to get some minutes under her belt. I would wrap Lauren Hempin-Cottonwall and say, you're absolutely not playing until you play France, but I'm not Serena. When they played Spain, I was just like, get her off the pitch now.

But no, I think for Serena, I think she might pretty much start who she probably would start. I think it's continuing that continuity, that relationship, that consistency, and then make changes and adaptations maybe. But yeah, I think it's just getting some minutes in their legs really and hopefully fingers crossed everyone comes out unscathed. Yeah, that's the main thing, isn't it? With the tournament starting on Wednesday, Wales in that group as well, Jen, going in for the very first time. And I just wanted to get your perspective on what it's like to be a tournament debutante because we've remarked on the

journey that Wales have been on to get here and as so much of women's football is it's a generational thing it's not just this group of players that have made the qualification it's the shoulders that they've been standing on and I just wondered from your experience I know with the Euros in 2017 not quite the way you wanted it to be but then then the World Cup in 2019, just your memories of that. Oh, it was incredible. I think even going at, look, I know I missed out on the Euros through injury, but even being part of the qualification to then qualify for a World

Cup right after it, it was just, it just felt like a shift. And I think that's hopefully what, what the Welsh national team are really feeling. The kind of engagement, the exposure, the media might shift, the language that are used in home soil. It's trying to kind of almost forget that it's your first experience. That was kind of my perspective, especially in 2019. It was so apparent that especially in the game against Argentina, we didn't have tournament experience and that's what let us down. And I think that's what you kind of have to shout out and lean on players like your Jess Fishlock that have been in the game for so long and played at the highest level from a domestic standpoint. And the games will come thick and fast. The recovery is

fast. Tournament football is so different to league or any national team camp you've ever been a part of. This is it. Every game matters and if you want to progress and you want to do well. But I will say my best memories were how the whole country got behind you because you were at a major tournament. That feeling felt unbelievable. And that is the feeling that I want Scotland to have again so badly. But I was, when I was watching all the qualifications qualifications the Wales game was probably the one I was most excited watching because I knew that exact feeling as a player getting that close and actually getting it over the line. They were all beyond proud of themselves and I

can't wait to watch them on a major tournament stage. Well before we go we're going to do some quick fire predictions and just before we go into this I've been told Supercomputer Tom, last time we did our 2022 preview show, got it right, you predicted England were gonna win. So who's your tournament winner in 2025? I'll go Spain. Okay, Ellen.

Can I say England or Germany? Hopefully England or Germany. What about you, Dan? Germany or Spain, but I'm going Spain. Okay, thank you so much Ellen White, Gem Beattie and Tom Gary with us this evening. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one will be the Commentator's View.

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