Football Daily - Women’s Football Weekly: BONUS with CEO of WSL Football Nikki Doucet

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

CEO of WSL Football, Nikki Doucet, speaks exclusively to Ellen White and Ben Haines at the end of the domestic season. After the announcement of a major rebrand for professional women’s football in England, Nikki discusses the reasons behind the new name and new look, plus what this means for the future of the WSL and newly renamed WSL 2. Nikki also talks to Ellen and Ben about the reports of scrapping relegation, increased spending in women’s transfer windows, how the game is going to be grown and whether women’s football will get a dedicated broadcasting slot, as well as giving us an insight into her own personal background.TIME CODES: 0’44” A rebrand that got fans talking? 2’47” Nikki Doucet’s background 4’21” What it’s like negotiating with clubs 8’18” Tangible things put in place over the last season 13’12” Change of name from Championship to WSL2 15’40” Lack of jeopardy in the league 22’20” Is there help for clubs who are struggling to fill their stadium? 25’03” How are you making women’s football attractive for fans? 31’12” Disparity in transfer spending in the WSL 34’30” Looking ahead to the Euros (Recorded on Thursday 15th May 2025)BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Wednesday 20th May: Europa League Final - Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United, 8pm KO. Saturday 24th May: UEFA Women’s Champions League Final - Arsenal v Barcelona, 5pm KO. Sunday 25th May: Premier League final day from 4pm.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes and Ellen White. Welcome to a bonus episode of the Women's Football Weekly. The domestic season's come to an end. So we thought what better way to wrap up the season than to welcome a very special guest into the studio with Ellen and me. So we're sitting down today with CEO of Women's Super League football, Nikki Doucet. And Nikki, we're saying Women's Super League football because we're recording after the news of a big rebrand. And I think it's safe to say it's got fans talking.

I think so. Any reb brand probably gets people talking. Do you know what I love about the women's game is that you, you know, real fast what people think, right? You get told straight away. Have you found that in your role so far? Absolutely. But I think that's one of the best things about our fan base is that they care so much and I think that's one of the things I love most about it, you know.

And the things what they're saying is they care so much about the right things. The feedback I think that I've heard, you know, from some of our core fans on this rebrand is but what about standards? What about refereeing? What about this? And actually, like those are all probably the right. And we're asking those ourselves as well. And, you know, this is just one of the steps on the journey to further professionalise and raise the game that we all love so much.

I definitely, definitely want to get more stuck into the brand later on. But I feel like we should give people an opportunity to get to know you a little bit better, because that's naturally one of the first things I think people will think when you come into the role that you do, it's such an important role that people wanna feel that element of trust, right? That the game is in good hands in the right place. So let's start a little bit with about you. What's your background?

I grew up in a small town in Nova Scotia, Canada, but I grew up playing sport. And for me, that was my passion. I played every sport I possibly could. I always felt sport was my superpower and actually got me in the door and, and made me feel confident. It gave me friends. It just gave me, I think, everything in life and gave me a platform to be successful in the future.

So I think I start from that because it's probably my favorite thing to do. So you're talking about sport being such a big part of your life do you think those type of characteristics are what make you perfect for this role and obviously you've obviously been previously a banker and working with Nike is it a culmination of all of those things that make you the right person for this role? I hope so. I think so. I think I have a unique background. I think I do start with first and foremost I'm I considered myself an athlete growing up. I have an experience of being a female athlete. You know I'm a fan. I love sport. I love all

sport. I love watching it. I think having the finance background is foundational because I think it's important to understand the business and how to grow and where the opportunities and making smart business decisions. But I think also the Nike experience is really helpful from a branding and understanding a market, a consumer base, a fan base, the sport, how to invest in innovation, and what makes athletes really perform at their best, giving them the best equipment, the best environment. And I think learning how to just obsess the right things

to make good decisions. And hopefully, that makes me a better decision maker and a better business person. How challenging or how daunting was that first period in the role? It started, I think, really quite organically because I didn't actually start as the CEO in the role. I started as a consultant. It's been my journey, but it's been helpful because I think you build trust along the role. I started as a consultant. It's been my journey, but it's been helpful because I think

you build trust along the way. So I think I was able to build trust with the clubs, with the FA, with the people that are running the businesses of professional football in this country. Can I just ask, what was your process when going to build those early relationships? Did you find that people were open to discussion with you? And did you have a way of trying to think, I'm gonna try and break through here and make sure that people know I'm serious and wanna go about this the right way?

For me, I think you have to meet people in person. Maybe it's something really simple but obvious, but I think building relationships are just really important, built on trust. Acknowledging when you haven't gotten something right, Building relationships are just really important, built on trust, you know, acknowledging when you haven't gotten something right, apologizing, moving forward, showing action, you know, saying something and then doing it, I think, builds trust. And having worked at Nike, which is a big matrixed organization, I think you also have

to let go of your ego. And so that, I think, also helped me. Being a parent also I think has helped me because I also think you have to let go of your ego a little bit on certain things because I'm no longer the boss, although I try to be. But you have to come in and show respect, and learn and have a point of view. I think that is really important. But be open that my point of view might change if better information is presented and ultimately it's about are we making the right decision based on the information that we have today. Were all the clubs on board with it straight away in terms of moving away from the FA in

terms of the WSL and also WSL2 teams now wanting to all be collective? I think both the FA and all of the clubs are on board by, by, to be able to set up an independent company that they would be in control of their destiny of the professional game. And I think the FA was, you know, really supportive on onboard with that too. I still say I worked in banking for a long time, so I did a lot of M&A transactions. I still think this is the most complicated M and A transaction ever, um, that we got 23

clubs with the range of clubs that we have in both of our leagues, plus the FA to all sign the same legal documents. I mean, that's pretty incredible. And I think that also shows the desire of, of all of those parties that, you know, of wanting to invest in this, of wanting, believing in the future of women's football parties that, you know, of wanting to invest in this, of wanting, believing in the future of women's football and the growth

opportunity and wanting to do what's right for it. Was there a main common denominator or priority that every team said the same thing that they wanted to achieve from being a collective? Yeah, I think, and I think that's the reason why we actually got the transaction done is because we started with the why and the purpose of it, which is to leverage the power of women's football to inspire a more equitable society. And there are so many examples of that. I go back to, we're so inspired by the lionesses.

And after, you know, I'm sitting beside you right now. And you know, but I think the legacy of those players of your team, of you, you know, I'm sitting beside you right now and, you know, but I think the legacy of, of those players of your team, of you, you win the Euros, one of the greatest feats ever. And the next day you send a letter to government, you know, asking for sport to be taught equally at school between boys and girls. Women's football has been built on rebellion,

you know, and that in people may not want to talk about that 50-year ban, but it's important. You know, it's, you know, we're starting at that point and, um, and it has had repercussions in terms of why we're here. The second thing is the vision. What's the, what is your aspirational? Like, what does it look like in 10 years? What are we trying to get to? And it is, you know, transforming women's football through the lens of her, for her. It's really important. This is not the same sport as men's football. And I think the mission, which is how we do it, is to build the most distinctive competitive and entertaining women's football club competitions in the world for the players and fans of today and tomorrow.

Everybody was able to go back in a line on those those three things the purpose vision and mission I think. When you zoom out and look back particularly this season what do you think are the sort of tangible things that you lean on and say I've seen success there or that has got better or that's a success story that I really want to lean into and drive forward for more change for greater growth. There's actually so many and there's such a strong list but I think first and foremost I think like the team that I have is unbelievable. For the first time

ever in terms of women's professional football, there's a team of dedicated experts that are waking up. They don't have a competing priority. They wake up thinking about how are we going to grow women's professional football. And there's not very many countries in the world that have that. We have a football her program that was only introduced two years ago that every practitioner has to go through to have a license to be within our game. We've put over 200 people through that program, you know, in different educational modules around pelvic floor health and menstrual cycles and all of that stuff that's really important

to female athletes. You know, we have some of the best data from an injury and surveillance perspective that will take a little bit of time to see the benefits of, but I think that's something that is really, really important. We've seen some incredible brands, you know, reinforce their commitment and also up their commitment to show that there is, this is an incredible growth story. I feel like maybe talking from like an ex-player or a player. Maybe we haven't heard all the stuff that you've said there about pelvic floor,

health management, a lot of that's done away from the eyes of the fans. Obviously the first thing that maybe the fans really saw was the rebrand. Yes. Obviously it's gonna take a long time. And I feel like I'm an impatient person. I wanna see something like fly. And obviously there's gonna to take a long time and I feel like I'm an impatient person. I want to see something like fly and obviously there's going to be roller

coasters, there's going to be ups and downs. Is there real tangible things coming in this season where fan experience, more exposure, are we going to see more in this next year of what the WSL football are going to be doing for women's football in this country. Yes. Is the answer. Please.

I want things to go as fast as they possibly can. But yeah, look, I think the rebrand in some ways is a starting point on a lot of things that are coming. So we'll have a website for the first time that is coming, that'll be from a fan perspective will be a one-stop shop for women's football. So you'll be able to find everything there across both the leagues, but also around anything that's going on in women's football. So that's really important. I think also from a player perspective, we'll be able to publish the handbook for the first time, which we've been working really hard on in the background. And that's a long legal process, but that's really important to show what are our minimum

standards, you know, what is expected to participate within the league, but we need a place to be able to put it. And one of the reasons within the rebrand and going back to WSL2 is actually really important to allow that league, I think, to have more visibility, to drive more brand value within it. And next year, every single game in the WSL2 will be on YouTube with UPPED production, which will be invested from a league perspective. Is it because of having WSL in it, you think that's better for exposure and for people wanting to watch and jump on that league

as well? I think it allows us to have a, like, a unified both leagues under one umbrella. So the difference one also between us and like Premier League, Premier League has one league, we have two. I think that's also one of the great things about our company is that we do have both leagues.

And I think it's really important to build, to allow WSL to be definitely the best, by far the best league in the world, be seen as that, be valued as that, which I think it is. Um, but we need to continue to grow that, but allow also the WSL too, to be seen as the next best league in the world. And there's some really great soundbites around

that. If you look at our average attendance this season in the WSL too, we have a higher average attendance in that league than any other domestic women's league in Europe. I mean, that's incredible. And so I think we need to be building more value, allowing more exposure, showing the fans what's possible,

giving more visibility to both leagues. And I think, and be able to give as many fans as possible on the opportunity to attend those games and have a great experience, and then be able to watch it. Let's just, there's, there were so many things there that immediately I was like, we must talk about that. And I know fans will be like, ask about that, ask about that. But let's just scale back a tiny bit and go back to the change of name.

Because I, one of the things that I saw straight away is that there are some fans that will say, well, I sort of signed up almost to women's football and I love watching the championship. Are you forgetting about me now that you've changed from the championship to WSL2? I guess firstly, do you hear their concerns and see where that's coming from? And secondly, do you think that there is any chance that people might feel either left behind or left out by the fact that something they've invested in Or they feel an emotional connection to has now switched I Can so I can understand especially if you haven't been part of the process or just seeing it for the first time But I think from I think a couple things one

This has been a long process and there's been a lot of input in it So we've we've engaged with fan groups throughout the process to come up with the rebrand. We've engaged with players to come up with the rebrand. We've engaged with, you know, multiple stakeholders, in particular the FSA, the Fan Supporter Association. So all the questions that you're asking now, they asked us throughout that process. The name change is so important because I actually think it means we're investing more in that league and we're allowing the WSL to have more visibility, to be under the umbrella of a unified umbrella. And I think it also comes down to resource.

The reality is building brand equity in two different brands requires a lot of resource and a lot of capital. And we need to be really thoughtful in terms of what our budgets are and what we can do. And I think it allows both leagues then to have more visibility on both platforms. And having two fully professional leagues, I think, is a real differentiator in our country versus any other country in the world. I think is a real differentiator in our country versus any other country in the world. The other word that you said that straight away,

I'm sure your ears, pretty tough as mine did, but you said the word Jeopardy. And I think we definitely got that in terms of the championship final day. But is it fair to say that we've lost a little bit of that in terms of the WSL, as we near the kind of crescendo of the season particularly when you look at things like the top three or the top four and then the

gap the relegation battle and then the fact that it hasn't gone down to the final day and Chelsea have won for the sixth year in a row. I do think it is a really competitive league. I think what I think fans want to see is is every spot worth fighting for. Is every game worth fighting for. 12 teams in the league is a small league. I think every game is worth fighting for and even though I mean Chelsea had an unbelievable season undefeated which hasn't happened but so many of the games went down to the final 80th, you know 90th minute. you know, it's a tough league if you ask, I'm sure, I'm sure if you. It's pretty tough.

Yeah. No, it is very impressive. You know, and, uh, our job is also to continue to show and encourage more investment, more investment to raise standards, to create the high performance environments so that one, the best players want to play here. And from a fan perspective, that means I'm going to get to watch great football and get to watch the

best players. So when we're talking about Jeopardy, obviously relegation was thrown out there. I think, you know, I don't know how much is true. I'm sure that maybe frustrated you how much that was publicised, we spoke about it a lot, it's very ingrained in English football, we want to grow both the WSL2 and the WSL. Is there a chance in the next year to five years where we'll increase the number in the WSL and WSL2 and will relegation and you know coming up promotion be increased to

cause that jeopardy that excitement that incentive for funding like you say? Yeah I don't think everything was reported correctly we are still a startup even though women's football has obviously been around for a long time I think the professionalization of the game is still in an early stage development. And if we don't do anything, I think that's not the right thing to do. I think we have to continue to find ways to encourage more investment. We wouldn't be doing our jobs right if we weren't looking at every single possibility that we could do or look at and figure out what are the pros and cons of each of those? And are we engaging with all of the right stakeholders to have those conversations?

So there is no proposal that's been decided on. We're having the right conversations with the clubs and with the FA and players and managers to understand what are the right decisions going forward. Should we look to expand? Should we not, what would that look like? What does that mean? What are the financial implications of that? I said, promotion relegation is hugely important. It is part of the fabric of football in this country.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's something that is always going to be there. So we're staying, we're staying with it. I would say that it is and any talk around a pause in relegation if that was a potential option would have been around does that incentivize more investment question mark and but I would say that particular option is moved down towards the bottom of the list. The 72 Plus on the Football Daily. I'm Aaron Paul.

And I'm Jobe Makhno. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily, we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. They've got so much quality there. For me, worthy winners. They've only actually lost four games all season, which is quite remarkable really.

That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily, the Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes and Ellen White. Let me just come back to that point about Jeopardy as well because I've heard you spoke a lot about this in the past in terms of wanting to create that super engaging atmosphere, environment, every game to matter. What are the tangible ways that you make that happen? Because it definitely feels like as you look at the WSL at the moment, we do have a bit of a quality gap, right? We have four teams at the top of the league that are able to go and perhaps

get a hold of talent in a way that others aren't are able to go and maybe be a bit more aggressive from a, from a marketing point of view. How do you bridge that gap or how do you help those sides that are in that next group of teams that want to try and sort of close it and get up towards the Champions League places? I think it's a process that takes some time. There's different ways to look at it. I think continuing to show all of the clubs that there's a real, from a club owner perspective, that there's a real investable proposition. I think we're on this curve of professionalization, development, and having the best teams possible. And I think there's some teams and some owners who have been innovators and have invested ahead of the curve. And they're seeing real benefits off the back of that today.

I think there's some clubs who are just starting to really invest and everyone's investing in potentially slightly different ways. Some are looking at buying back training grounds or building a training grounds. So they're building a really strong foundation so that they can attract better players in a really good environment. Others are looking at, you know,

can they have a women's only stadium? And how does that help build their fan base over time that then more players would want to be able to come? Obviously, I think having the support staff and having really strong coaching around to make better technical players and also making sure that the players that are wanting to come here feel like they're coming into a safe environment that they feel really comfortable in. Everyone's on a journey, I think within that. The better environments that we have, the more clubs that see it, the more clubs that are, we're creating a FOMO in some ways of wanting to be in the best league in the world, creates better environments, more better players, more teams that are

willing to compete. And I just think that takes time. Each club has to then build their fan base. And how do they make the women's team a must have for their community? What is their value proposition? Why is a fan coming that they need to come watch every single week? You know, how do they understand how it gives back to the community? And I think that's really, really important.

It's not just, you know, the league, but how we also help facilitate people finding their club, finding their player, and enabling the clubs to share best practices. Is there conversations or a streamlined blueprint, if you will, to enable and help those teams that maybe aren't as savvy marketing, for instance, getting their fans engaged, getting their fans into the stadium, building revenue. Let's say Arsenal, the Emirates, what they do there is phenomenal. It's almost world leading. Is there conversations to be like, how can we at say Leicester, for instance, we're at the King power, how can we use that, our community, use your marketing, use your blueprint and enable us to be able to bring in the fan base that you guys have

got, maybe not the same, but something similar that we can maybe use little bits to be able to help. Yeah, we have workshops, we help facilitate workshops with all of the clubs and also external partners around ticketing strategies. And I think it's interesting because if you're a Premier League club, you probably don't have to have a ticketing strategy, right? You've already sold everything out. So I think it's also a new learning for a lot of clubs because how do you sell tickets if you've never had to do it before? How do you sell tickets to a fan base you might not have ever talked to before? Or a fan that's never watched men's football? And I think there's different learnings and there's different pockets of success across all of the clubs. I think everyone's really trying

and we're trying to share best practices and our job is to help facilitate that. So we would have, I can't tell you how many meetings, but a lot, also trying to bring everyone together. And I think it's also going back to one of the first things I said is trust. You know, while each club is obviously trying to compete on the pitch, we're also trying to grow the game together. And I think you also have to build trust that actually we can share best practices.

We can be transparent where that might not necessarily, you might not have to do that on the men's side, but on the, on our be transparent where that might not necessarily, you might not have to do that on the men's side, but on our side and where we are in terms of the development cycle of our business and of the industry, how do we share best practices? How do we get people feeling like they can do that and feel comfortable doing that when that hasn't traditionally been the way you do business or the way you might, you just might not naturally think to do that. So sorry, is that a resistance at the moment a little bit to share best practice?

I don't know that I would say resistance. I would just say you might not even, you just might not think about it. And it just might not have been something that would have occurred to you. So we're on this journey together and some people are you know maybe a little bit further ahead some people are just catching up or some people are trying something brand new that we don't know if it'll work. We can't be afraid to fail. It's okay if something doesn't work the first time because some things are going to be new and we do have to try new things. We have to be bold. Let's go

on a little bit to talk about ticketing and the idea of attracting bigger crowds. Because you've spoken a lot about this too and the idea of wanting more people in stadiums. How do you make it a more attractive proposition so that fans come en masse to go and watch the WSL and WSL2? There's a lot of easy things to be able to say at once. Scheduling, times, you know, know a consistent slot how easy it is for away travel right i've got a poetry there go on ellen jump in consistent slot are we going with a specific women's football slot where we're hitting every fan base we've had ridiculous time 6 45 you know you've got a family no one's ever going to turn up i Especially Bums on Seats, even in homes. Is there a lot of conversations

going where that is our time and that is where women's football will sit on the weekend? Obviously we know about the 3pm blackout and everything like that, but is that a conversation that's going and ongoing and that's going to happen next season? The easy answer and what I'd love to be able to say is absolutely well one those conversations are ongoing yes and I think everyone would love to have a consistent slot that is the right time that makes it easy for everyone to come and watch. I think the challenge that we have

is that we don't have control sometimes over that and that's the if we had control over it, it'd be easy. You know, we'd do it, no question. From a broadcast slot, there's not a natural broadcast slot. And I think 3PM is there historically for, has its own reasons for being there. And I think we're trying to figure out

where we can have the right slot. I think our broadcast partners have been really, have been working really hard with us on what that looks like. We know the 645 slot is hard for, I know you just said it, I know it's hard. We all, you know, I think the other thing is stadium primacy. There's very few clubs that have their own stadium.

So we are in this complex ecosystem of, of men's football and not in primarily EFL, national, depending which stadiums we have. And so the scheduling is really complex. And, and also we schedule also based on player welfare principles as well. You know, we have to have a minimum two week season break, which right now falls over

Christmas and that's part of our player welfare principles that we agreed as part of the new company with the FAA, you know, that's built into the governance of the company. And so we're, the scheduling is complex. It's hard. We are trying to get all the feedback that we can, you know, some away fans, you know, the train

times, depending on if it's a 12 o'clock in Liverpool, you might not have a train from London on if it's a 12 o'clock in, in Liverpool, you might not have a train from London to be able to get up there and vice versa. So we're again, we're still on this development journey. We're still learning more data and feedback. That's why I love the fans giving us more

feedback so that we can make better decisions for them. You know, we're always going to have to make some compromises, but we want to be more consistent. I think it's easier from a fan for sure. And we're trying our best to be able to do that. There was such a I mean, you spoke about it earlier on, but there was such a positivity around the lionesses after you guys got over the line. The other thing we saw straight away was this boom in people going to watch women's football.

Suddenly stadium attendances were up massively and since then we've seen a bit of a decline. What do you put that down to and how much is that a natural part of the ebbs and flows of going through change? I think there's natural ebb and flows of this journey that we're on. But I also think you can, there's so much nuances and flows of this journey that we're on. But I also think you can, there's so much nuances within each of, within that data. So yes, when you look at our attendances over the past few years, we're the fastest growing sport from an attendance perspective in this country, both, you know, across all sports. You look at our total attendance across both leagues, it's up year over year and continues to grow.

I think a lot of times it depends on kickoff times. A lot of times it depends, are we in a men's international break and how are we maximizing those moments or not. We've done the testing of the drinking in the bowl trial for a number of games in the championship. That's been really positive and really well received. You know, what do we learn from that? Can that be something that's encouraging? Did you expect that? Yes, I did.

Cause I think we have a different fan base and I think we have different fan behavior. So I would have been surprised if it was really negative, you know, why can you go to a tennis match or a rugby match and, and have a good experience and have, have the choice to have a drink or not, if you want to, and still be safe and responsible. Like, why can't, why wouldn't we be able to have, give fans the choice to be able to do that and test and see what we learned from it? So yeah, I think there's, I think we just have different, we have a different fan base.

I feel like you had to touch on London City Lionesses as well, because that must be a really interesting proposition for you to see them coming into the WSL, but also do it as an individual club that are out there on their own and are solely focusing on a women's side. So what does their model do for the rest of the league and how much are you going to be watching what they do as a way to sort of color and inform what other teams could potentially do as well in the future? I think it's exciting.

I think it's interesting because they don't, like I said, they don't, they don't have a competing priority. And so what can we learn from them? What do they learn? What's pot, you know, there's pros and cons of everything, but I think they have ambition. I think that's a positive thing for the league. I think it'll be interesting to see how they, how they do next season, you know, and I'm sure that there's a lot to learn and we'll see how it plays out. But I think

to have different ownership models, to have different club structures and to have multiple club structures that could be successful in both leagues, I think is really positive. I just wanted to touch on the transfer window. This is one of the other things, I suppose, that comes back to the idea around the potential quality gap that we might see emerge. Some side's spending a lot,

some sides spending a little bit less. How are the conversations progressing around the idea of spend and whether there is a disadvantage there for sides that perhaps can't go out and spend in the same way as others do? And how do you ensure that you don't create a situation where only some sides are able to go out and pay big fees and essentially create more of a disparity? Good question. Well one, I think the transfer window last year was pretty exciting. You know, I think it can add a lot of storylines for the game.

I think. Obsessed, isn't it? Yeah, it was great. Great. Are you talking about January or summer or just both? Both. Both. Both.

Yeah. I think, um, I mean, obviously the January one, you know, was exciting, but I think both can be exciting. I think it can create excitement for the fans. I think it create talking points. I think we just have to be thoughtful in the future from a league perspective in terms of, we're still at an early stage and part of it is,

you want to allow the right investment to come into the game. You want to continue to encourage the best players to be able to come here and encourage clubs to invest in their squad. And so it's finding, I think, the right structure around that. And to be fair, we're also learning a lot. So what's the right structure for our game at this stage?

And you wanna have it in the right way so it still allows for growth, but I suppose growth in the right way. Is it good for our league that we had a team spending 1.3 million? Do you think it's good? No, no, no. We're asking the questions. You go first. Look, I think female athletes should be paid to play football and played to play whatever professional sport. I think there's multiple ways you can answer that question. I want to rewind. Do you think it's good that 1.3 mil was spent by one club?

I think there's pros and cons of all of it and I think we're still growing. I think it's a really exciting headline and points to the investment that people want to make in the game. I think it points to the investment of the star athletes and their profile. But I think we're still in the stage of growth and there's disparity between the top and bottom. And I think we have to be thoughtful around that consideration so that, you know, you're still enabling the league to be as competitive as it possibly can. But you, you want the athletes to feel like this is exciting. This is the best league to play in.

You want them to feel like they're compensated for what they're doing, but also you want to allow for the growth of the game. Last one from us. Are you, well, Tyrion here, are you going to the Euros? Yes. And then can you give me the blue skies version of what the Euros could do for WSL one and WSL two? Yes, I'm going to the Euros or one, at least one of the games.

And blue sky is the same. I think if, you know, hopefully England have a, an amazing tournament, which I am sure they will. They don't want to, I don't know if you're superstitious, but I don't want to jinx anything. And look, I think we have also the most international league in the world. So I think we also have a lot of the best players

across Europe playing in our league. So I think, I think we're more ready to capitalize on a successful Euros than we were even the first time. So if you imagine what that did after a home Euros and winning that for the league, I think we're in an even better position this time to, and all the clubs are in a better position this time to capitalize even more so on a successful euro. So to me I see another like I think summer sport for her is still going to be exciting. The world rugby all of that stuff we're going to have more of our players in the press.

You're going to have you're going to see more great stories. You're going to have more heroes. We're going to have more emotional highs and lows and I think that's really exciting to continue into the rest of our season. It's been wonderful getting to chat to you and I hope you'll come visit us again. I hope we haven't put you off. No. Thank you for having me. It was great.