Football Daily - Women's Football Weekly: Champions League showdowns & Man United return to Wembley

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Ellen White, Jen Beattie and Ben Haines react to the FA Cup semi-finals where Chelsea and Manchester United booked their spots at Wembley. Holders Manchester United have reached a third successive final and they will look to get revenge over quadruple-chasing Chelsea who beat them in the showpiece fixture back in 2023.As well as reflecting on this year's finalists, with their Women's Champions League qualification hopes hanging in the balance and another trophyless season confirmed, the team look at what has gone wrong for Manchester City.Plus, the Champions League has reached the semi-final stage and there is an all-English final on the cards. Two huge rivalries are renewed this weekend as Arsenal host Lyon and Chelsea visit Barcelona in the first-legs.TIMECODES: 00:53 - Holders Manchester United reach a third successive FA Cup final. 06:50 - Manchester United being a dark horse this season. 10:55 - Marc Skinner reacts to his side booking their return to Wembley. 13:21 - Phallon Tullis-Joyce and Manchester United’s defence this season. 17:40 - Chelsea’s quadruple dream is still alive thanks to a late winner from Aggie Beever-Jones. 21:33 - What’s gone wrong for Manchester City in another trophyless season? 29:10 - The Women’s Champions League reaches the semi-final stage. 29:55 - Jen on Lyon manager Joe Montemurro, who managed Arsenal between 2017 and 2021. 34:36 - The Chelsea v Barcelona rivalry is renewed. 38:30 - Could we see an all-English champions league final? 39:11 - The WSL returns after the international break.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily, the Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes, Ellen White and Jen Beattie. Hello everybody. Welcome along to the Women's Football Weekly. Hello Jen. Hello Ells. How are you both? All good. Good thanks Ben. How are you? Well, do you know what? I'm good, but I've just had the panic that I've called you L's.

We've just had a little chat off air about like being like who's allowed to call you L's and who isn't. Have I made the circle? Can I do that now? Yeah, you're acceptable. Referees, absolutely not. Very elite group that they unfortunately are not part of. Lots to get into today. We'll be talking through the City United game and the FA Cup. We've got the Champions League semi-final first leg coming up which is very exciting and the WSL returning as well but we will begin with the FA Cup. Very exciting weekend. Holders Manchester United have reached a third successive FA Cup final with an impressive

victory over rivals Man City, Celine Bizet and Grace Clinton getting the goals and it feels fitting it was their names on the score sheet with Grace Clinton spending last season on loan at Tottenham meaning that she missed the final against her parent club, she now has the chance to play at Wembley alongside best friend and teammate Bizet who was also in the Spurs squad last year. Let's begin with Grace Clinton because she seems to be one of these players that is just growing and growing and growing and you watch her as a part of that side and when you think that she wasn't a part of it last year it's kind of crazy to think the impact that she's having at the moment and how dominant she

is in midfield. Yeah she's having a really great impact at the moment. Obviously, yeah, coming back from Tottenham signing a contract with Man United this season, she was kind of a little bit in and out at the start of the season. Had to kind of build her way in and kind of work out what her best position was. But I feel like in that kind of number eight role, just behind kind of Ella Toon building that relationship up with Janssen and Maezawa as well. I feel like she's just growing and growing and growing. She's got great physical attributes to be a very good midfielder right from defending in the box to obviously attacking,

scored a lovely header so she can score goals as well. So she's got some great attributes to obviously progress and develop. I feel like her and Toonie had to, Ella Toon had like a bit between their teeth to be like, we want to obviously beat Manchester City. But I feel like Grace Clinton, she wants to be there. She wants to be at that final. You know, she watched, she had to sit there and watch both those teams play last season.

So to be a part of now the final, and then obviously a great kind of chance for her to obviously start as well. So yeah, I think, you know, hopefully she can work really hard and she'll be a great one for the future. You know you say to those players, Jen, that they're deceptively strong, they never seem to lose the ball even when they get into a 50-50 or let's just say a 40-60, somehow they seem to come out on the right side of it. What does that come down to with a player like Grace Clinton?

Yeah, I think that's probably a mentality when it comes down to, you know, you might not necessarily have the biggest stature or biggest height, but you go into a game with a mindset that no one's going to beat me in midfield. I think you see that a lot with I'm going to big up the Scots in this one, like Aaron Cuthbert and Kim Little, not necessarily the biggest in stature, but they put themselves about and that comes to mentality and just I think that's so important in a midfield and for Grace I think, you know, we watched her at Spurs and she shone when she was there. I feel like that lone spell was probably the best thing she could have done in terms of going away, getting minutes

consistently for Spurs and I feel like she put her name out there that season so it's no surprise and Ellen's spot on. She was a little bit in and out this season but has come on to be this midfielder that especially with Stanway being out injured for Lionesses getting more opportunities with England has really taken her game to the next level and you know to see her and her best mate at a cup final that's you know stuff you dream of as a player not just from a professional level but personal as well. You're there with your best mate, it just means more. We have to talk about Celine Bizet as well, such a wonderful finish but technically she's a gorgeous watch, isn't she Ellen? The way she strikes the ball so clean, she's so aggressive,

pacey, direct, she's a really exciting player. Yeah, really exciting player and I think she's got a nice connection with Riviere on that right hand side as well. She's got really good movement coming from out to in which she saw her goal and Elatun, that was a beautiful ball, just that vision and execution to be able to pass that ball but then also Bizet had to kind of be able to kind of move her body, cut it back inside on her right foot and then obviously the finish as well. Yeah, she's really pacey, puts in a good cross. I think she's got seven or eight assists this season so she's up there with the top assists and scored a number of goals as well.

So I feel like she's been a real kind of dark horse, I'd say this season. I think she's been a really kind of shrewd signing foot for Mark Skinner. You know, he had Janssen as well, Turland up top, so I feel like the signings that he's made have made a huge impact for this season. They've obviously got a number of clean sheets as well, so they've kind of gone under the radar a little bit. I feel like, I'll personally say it, I had quite low expectations,

wasn't sure where they would be this season, but I feel like they've kind of really performed well, considering, you know, comments Jim Ratcliffe's made about them and obviously prioritising the men's. I feel like those players and the staff collectively have worked so hard to perform and put themselves in an amazing position and a chance to retain the FA Cup. It's amazing.

El's on the goal as well, going back to Buzette's goal, she had to do a lot of work to get that, right? You talked about bringing the ball down, you know, it's not a classic number nine with a tap in. Surely that shows more of her as a player if she's got way more to do to get a goal. Oh yeah, definitely. I feel like she's got some really good attributes,

not just, yeah, putting herself in a position just to tap it in. She's had to come from outside on the right had to come in Obviously she's got a couple of defenders around her had to move the ball back onto her right foot and then obviously it's a tough finish She's on the edge of the 18-yard box to then whiz that past Kiara Keaton So yeah I think she's done really well this season and one of those standout players and I feel like her relationship Riviere with Clinton with Ella Toon with Turland as well I feel like it's been a nice balance and obviously Leaha Goulton on that left hand side as well.

If we go back a year, I don't think it's unfair to say that reaction from United fans to the way that they were progressing was at best mixed. It felt like there was a real discontent at times with the way that the team was progressing. It's changed so much this season. What's that down to, Jen? Obviously, I was thinking about this as well and you know, Martis Skinner obviously extending his contract and sticking around and being mixed emotions but Man United for me, I think it's because they went through a phase of letting go of their best players, right? Losing Russo was huge. If you're a Man United fan, you're letting go of your best players.

You're thinking what's the direction we're going here? So I understand that reaction. But at the end of the day, Man United have been this like dark horse for a long time where you know, they've consistently finished almost in the top bracket every single time and back to back FA Cup finals and winning their first trophy. I was looking, it's not long they got promoted. 2019 they came back onto WSL1 and within two seasons they were a top four club. So the progression they made pretty quickly

is down to Mark and let's be honest also, they don't have as big pockets as the other top three clubs. So it hard to compete on that level that's what he'll be saying so I think what he's done with the resources he's been given he's done an awesome job I will say like so I think but I understand from a Man United fan perspective why you would always want more because you want trophies you want title winnings but I think what they've done this season especially is putting their name bright in there with top three and that's progression for me. I wonder if it's an expectation management thing then, Jen. The fact that they had that second place finish in 22-23, suddenly everyone's thinking, oh

okay, maybe we're talking about a title charge next year. If you then drop off, perhaps it was almost overachieving perhaps to get that far so quickly? Yeah, you can almost use the comparison with Liverpool as well, finishing fourth and then a bigger drop off and the manager loses their job because, okay, we've overachieved and then the expectation to repeat that and also keep progressing and keep getting better. So I do totally get it but I'll go back to what I said I think Mark Skinner what he's done with the squad and consistently competing with Chelsea Man City Arsenal every season finishing you know potentially above Arsenal as

well I think he's done an unbelievable job but of course fans will always want more. Adam? Yeah no I agree I think at times over a number of years when he's been at Man United, I feel like he maybe, the fans haven't always warmth to him. I think sometimes in interviews I'm like, what is he talking about? His answers are quite long and I'm just like,

he's just going around the houses here. And I feel like it's a consistency thing, isn't it? And I think when they did get second, obviously some players left and then the recruitment wasn't what they needed to sustain where they wanted to be. And I think as well they weren't able to consistently compete and beat the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and be in a position to compete and stay in that top three whereas I feel like this recruitment this season has been very good and I think as well I feel like it's the the club the women's team especially they've galvanized with the comments that were made from the men's side and I feel like you know they they need that they need that

support they want they need that funding and a club like Man you know, they need that support, they need that funding. And a club like Manchester United, women, they should be up there. They should be up there with the players they've got, the talent they've got. And what they've done with probably not as much funding as they deserve is incredible. It's phenomenal. And I feel like for them to get Champions League spot, potentially, like Jen said, to get second, the season would be amazing. And then obviously, if they were to retain the FA Cup final that's a very good season but then it's like what are we doing next season then? How are we elevating? How are we going to consistently be in

that top three? How are we going to push for the title? But what they've done over the last few years is amazing and what Mark Skinner's done as a manager, he's very good on the training pitch, he's a very, very good coach and he's got some very talented players. Well Man United with an opportunity then to make it back-to-back FA Cup wins and we can hear from Mark Skinner now. I was really happy throughout the whole game, lots of control, lots of great goals, great energy and this foul and save, double save is incredible too. So, and we need that, you know, these games are always tight. Even if City are suffering with injuries, I just felt that we were excellent.

We had a lot. We always have a lot thrown at us at Manchester United. And we're this, we're that. But actually, we know who we are. We know the core of what we do and how we're progressing. And even this young team now, another Wembley experience, hopefully success, will just grow them again again and that's what we want. But I've got to just say we are at absolute core, we are a team, we're a family and we are, I think we embody all of the what is great about Manchester United, that family

spirit and as I say that's come out onto the pitch again today. In terms of the goals that we saw, what's it like working with players that have found such form and consistency across this season? I love working with all of them, it doesn't matter which one. Grace, I thought Grace was a kept-channel, I took her off because she was on the yellow card and last year she missed out on a final because it was against us, so I didn't want her to have to face that, so it's a tough decision but she understood because I say she wants to win trophies. And then Celine's great finish, they get special mention because of the goals, but Milly was excellent today. Mayo was excellent today. I could name them all.

They were fantastic. And now Chelsea, just a small matter of facing Chelsea in the final. How confident are you feeling about facing the league leaders? Always confident, always. It's you in the final. You don't fear anyone. And we've played Chelsea before. I thought we were very unlucky in that game. They scored late.

But the reality is, I just ask who's favourite. I don't care. I like it's a one-off game. We've got to be ready. We've got to be focused, which we all be. And you've got to give everything and then see who wins on the day. But we can beat anyone on our day.

I have no doubt about that. Radio Manchester's Sophia Hartley with the questions there to Mark Skinner. And you know, Ellen Ellen because you had just said about the way that he speaks I don't think I'd ever really noticed before just how many topics he covers in an answer like that first answer he sort of literally did the story of the game and the story of the season within the space of about 30 seconds it's really really fascinating but what we did get in there was him speaking about Felon Tyler's choices save, which you

mentioned to me earlier on today was just absolutely incredible. Which save do you think is better, the first or the second one? I just think probably the second, but the first one obviously to push it up onto the bar but then to hit the deck like she does and then to be able to get up, move her body and put her body in a position to then save the header from Murphy with her foot is just ridiculous and to watch that live Wow, it was something special She's a very special keeper and she's really proved that she is their

number one. Obviously, she's got a cap with the US women's national team as well. So I feel like she just looks amazing this season. Really a lot of clean sheets, but that save was just phenomenal. I haven't seen a save like that in years for a female goalkeeper, I don't seen a save like that in years for a female goalkeeper, I don't think. Do you know what's really cool as well is that across the entirety of the back line gen we're starting to get celebrations for every defensive action. I think a few years ago I used to be a bit like nah, but now I love seeing it. I love that sort of stuff.

As a defender are you one of those people that is like, yeah, go on, give me more of that? Or do you think that's your job? A million percent. No, a million percent. I'm like, if you were to ask me what would I rather do, score or make a goal line clearance on my own, goal line clearance all day. Like, our job is centre backs and, you know, Ellen will probably massively disagree obviously. No, I love a slidey. I love smashing people into rosettes. You would still do a slidey as a number nine as well, which I love about you. I loved it.

No, I think like box defending was one of my favourite things to do when you were like, I think that was the Scott in me that we were kind of used to defending a lot. But I used to absolutely love it. And especially if my goalkeeper made a massive save. Those saves remind me of Karen Bardsley, where you just, you don't concede many chances, you know, for when we were at Man City together, our defensive, we were pretty strong,

so we didn't concede many chances. But when you needed your goalkeeper to step up to make a worldy save that was Karen Bardsley and she would pull absolute worldies out like that double saves so that kind of reminded me of her but no for sure I loved it I'd be the one high-fiving in the box of a big moment yeah because those are the moments that change the game you either let a team back into it or you keep your side being consistent able to do their job up the other end. So no, I loved it. I was a high-fiver, cheer runner, jump and chest pump the goalkeeper a couple of times.

I'm just joking. Never went that far but I loved it. I'm all for it. Yeah, picking up the big moments that might not be seen elsewhere. Has Tunnus Joyce got to that point where defenders will start to think, not necessarily if they make an error, but you know you might be in that point during a game where you realize offside trap has been beaten or suddenly a player's found himself with a chance, where United Defence will be thinking she might bail us out here still. I think so, I think it's such an interesting one because like I said before you could be defensively really strong and then she might bail us out here still. I think so. I think it's such an interesting one.

Cause like I said before, you could be defensively really strong. And then Mark was talking about his defenders there with Millie and Maya and you know, how much their performance still adds to clean sheets. Of course you need your goalkeeper to bail you out in certain moments for sure. But I think she must be high as a cow right now.

I was thinking, you know, having not played much you know at the start with with Mary Earps and then getting an opportunity and now playing for your national team as well her confidence must be absolutely flying and I think that's what happens when it's not luck that's confidence and consistency and getting opportunities when you deserve and taking it so when you see double double saves like that, you probably are as defenders thinking, right, we can do our job to the absolute max, but I know that I've got a goalkeeper now

that is gonna make those big saves and big moments. And I think especially when you're beating Man City at a semi-final and you know you're about to play Chelsea, you need strength everywhere. And I think goalkeepers such a key position and Man United have got it and tell us choice. United through then, and it means goalkeepers such a key position and you know Man United have got it and in in Tullis Joyce. United through then and it means it'll be a repeat of the 2023 Women's FA Cup final as Chelsea's quadruple dream is still alive thanks to stoppage time goals in their FA Cup semi-final at home to

Liverpool. We'll get on to Aggy Beaver-Jones' goal in a minute but the definition, Ellen, of winning ugly here? Oh yeah. They just know how to get the job done, don't they? When I looked and it was like eight minutes about the time, I was just like, they're gonna score, aren't they? They're definitely gonna score. And Aggie had like three chances, I think,

before the fourth, obviously for header. But she just kept putting herself in the right position position and obviously she got her goal in the end But yeah, I just feel like they just keep plugging away It's just like they keep grinding and grinding and grinding until the defense or something or someone just switches off for a second and they're in and and they haven't played probably amazing at times But they either have won in injury time or they just haven't lost. I think that is very, very impressive. So Chelsea run out 2-1 winners. Those two goals coming in the 45th plus second minute

for Erin Cuthbert, which is a lovely finish, Deanna. A really, really lovely finish. So well-weighted. And then the winner from Agui Beaver-Jones in the 90 plus fourth minute, why does this keep happening for them? It's a great question. I think it's, I don't know, is it too easy to put it down to mentality again? They just don't stop. I think that's the one thing when I watch Chelsea is they're just absolutely relentless. They never switch off. You know, they might not play the prettiest of football, but they will keep going down to the wire. And I think, I don't know, I'm watching, you know when you see Arsenal go out to Liverpool in the Cup and it's because trying to play

Arsenal way at the back and losing it within the six yard box and I'm like, you don't, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't see Chelsea do that very often, right? They know how to adapt and they know how to win games in key moments and, Ellen's spot on, I thought they were absolutely relentless in those last eight minutes, you're thinking, yeah, they are gonna get a goal here. And I remember whether it's Sam Kerr popping up

a couple of seasons ago towards the end of the season to just get last minute goals, they've always got it in their locker. It's almost giving Fergie time from the United days. Well, they just find a way to win. You could put it down to other teams switching off, thinking the game's over or half time's over. You could put it down to mental fatigue at that point. It's this classic case of Chelsea just finding a way to win. For me, it's because they can adapt to a game.

Yeah we're going to have to come up with a name for it like Sonja Stoppage Time or something like that. But can we go back to the header Ellen because I think Aguibiva Jones is really smart. She gets up super early for the header but then just guides it back from where the crosses come from so it doesn't need to necessarily be right into the corner, but how hard is that technically? Yeah, it's a really hard technique. And I feel like she was obviously frustrated with herself for not converting the chances that she had before that, but I feel like credit to her for getting herself in that position. And like you say, there was quite a lot of

whip on that ball, like pace on the ball from Baltimore so she just needed to get up and be able to direct it back quite high into the net and I did feel for Rachel Laws because she's like I'm saving left right and centre here guys are you kidding me like I did feel for her because she was she played really well and then like 94th minute and obviously Aggies right there in between the centre halves and scores a great header and you know She's had a great week. Isn't she away on international and she scored top goal scorer see for for Chelsea She's having a great season. So yeah, I think she's really important player for Chelsea and yeah I really feel like she's developing and improving and yeah one of the key key players at the moment for them

So we know it'll be a Chelsea Man United final which does mean that Man City find themselves licking their wounds once again. What do we think's gone wrong for them Jen? There was so much on the table still at the time when they brought in Nick Cushing temporarily to take them through to the end of the season, it's not quite worked out. Yeah, I'm not sure on that one though. I think even when they brought Nick in, they brought him in at the hardest point, right before a cup final. And four back-to-back games.

We've spoken so much about Chelsea this season and how much that... That would have been a task for anyone, let alone... I think he's been dealt a hand here with a lot of injuries and a club. Probably if you went under the surface and actually went, you know, and were in the building, you'd probably find out a lot more. I think it's a club potentially going

through a really difficult time. I think he said it himself, injuries aren't just luck, injuries aren't just a process, it's everything. And they need to, it's happened so many seasons with Man City now, but it's almost happening again and they must be thinking, what is going on? But no, I think it's a really disappointing season for City, but it has to be down for injuries. You're looking at the pictures of the bench at the weekend

and the quality on that bench was just so hard to see. You're looking at Meadamall getting injured on international duty, Alex still out, Hempo still out, you're thinking, you know, there's such a much lower, no disrespect to the other players at all, but expectation has to just be so difficult when you're missing that amount of players. So no, I think it's... I feel for him. I think he's come in and still done an incredible job regardless. I think watching Man City play since he's had the job, you still see

a little bit more lively, much more positive play. But I think what a task he's had and I do really feel for them in terms of injuries, it's been so, so difficult. I don't know if this is selective memory, Ellen, but I feel like we're consistently looking at that picture of that bench, that camera angle cutting away and showing just some of the best players in their squad sat there just watching on, unable to do anything. Well, it's pretty much an 11-a-side squad in itself, isn't it, which is pretty heartbreaking, to be fair, when they have to sit there and watch as well. Yeah I saw a stat where it's like Bunny Shaw and Viv Meadam are between them have scored 30 goals this season which is staggering and then you can't there's no one in that team that can replicate that so I think that then that goes back to recruitment who are you bringing in in the transfer windows to boost your squad bol bolster your squad, because the depth

I think is the issue. Obviously, yes, you can be very unlucky with injuries, but I think there needs to be a real real kind of in-depth kind of look into the behind the scenes really of City, the medical team, the recruitment, the blueprint of what they're doing, the investment in the squad, what do you want from this Man City team moving forward? Because you cannot fault the endeavor of those players. They're working so hard. They really are. And you've got the likes of Lily Murphy,

you've got Gracie Pratt. They're so young, they shouldn't be playing those games, but they're having to be thrown in and having to have the experience and they are making a few mistakes But they are also gaining experience But you know you shouldn't you shouldn't have to rely on such young players at this moment in time, which is a shame obviously Yeah, they are getting the experience

so it's a really tough one for for the squad and the players at the moment and hopefully there's a big reset and a big kind of conversation going on behind the scenes at the end of the season to be like what is happening and how do we get players fit and to stay fit and healthy throughout the season. Just on that elbow it is, for me it's crazy to think what they can achieve if everyone's fit though. When you're listing off those names like the goals between Bunnyshaw and Meadamard like that's insane. Keep everyone fit and like they were so close in previous season, losing it on goal difference, you know, that's such a fine margin. And for me, I'm just thinking, if they have everyone fit,

they can't, then it comes down to, they're thinking, right, we have recruited, we have, you know, we've got two goal scorers with 30 goals between them. We can go and achieve whatever we want. It's a process behind the scenes that I think there's so much more to it that we'll never know.

But I think, you know, if they've spent budget bringing in players like Midema, how would you replace a Midema, first and foremost, if you're out injured? There's no way they're gonna have the budget to go and do it. Why? Why have they not got the budget? That would be my question. If you wanna be competing for the titles on every front, they have to have the budget. Surely

Manchester City have to have the budget? Let me give you a quick start on that. So 11 points fewer in the league than they had at this stage last season, having scored nine goals fewer and conceding 11 more. But as you you mentioned Dale, so I think it's 30 goals for Bunnyshaw and Viv Midemar, they've missed between them 29 games. So if you consider they're almost scoring at a rate between them of a goal a game nearly, if they're on the pitch you're guaranteed almost a goal from one of them in a game. You think about how many goals are missing just from those two not being on the pitch. It's insane the difference that it makes.

And if you add obviously Lauren Hemp in there who's going to score a lot of goals if she's back as well. Alex Greenwood at the other end as well. Exactly, keeping clean sheets. But then I would also say they've had these players, let's say since I've retired, these players for three years, what have they won? And I think it's about the right philosophy, the right person coming in and about winning football games. Yes, beautiful football philosophy, the way they play is important but if you look at the likes of Chelsea, their blueprint, their recruitment, their

investment, they're winning things, they're winning trophies so you've got to have a system that fits those players. Last season obviously it was goal difference, Bunny Shaw was injured for those last, I don't know how many games, keeping her fit or having someone else to come on and be like they're gonna score five, ten, fifteen goals as well. I think it is just they've got to look at how they can keep those players fit and who they got depth-wise if those players aren't fit but then also a system where they're winning football games not just possessing the ball and having beautiful football. Nick Cushing sort of

said around the injuries with so so many injuries, they can't all be bad luck, they can't all be down to bad practice. We have to look at everything. We have to look at why we're sitting fourth in the league, why we've not won a trophy and why we've not got our best players out through injury. The review process will be covering everything and I think we should be competing in every competition right until the very end so lots to look into for Man City. Not going to be part of the FA Cup final but that FA Cup final will take place on the 18th May. Coverage will be live across BBC TV and we'll have plenty of preview content ahead of the big game at Wembley next month. I'm Aaron Paul and I'm Jovi Makhner and on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport.

As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. I can't put a finger on why we weren't as energetic as we usually are. What they've got there is genuinely good people that really care about that football club and the fans have been huge in terms of the backing that they've given to this group. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. Time to look at the Women's Champions League as we've reached semi-final stage with the first legs taking place this weekend. There are few tougher challenges in the Champions League than Leon for Arsenal. They're going to face the eight-times winners who are having

a great first season so far under Joe Montemuro. He managed Arsenal between 2017 and 2021, they've met in the competition four times before with Lyon coming out on top three times. And Jen, I feel like any time you hear a former Arsenal player who was managed by Joe Montemuro talk about him, they immediately just like superlatives straight away, beam and smile. As I just saw in your face there, what is it that players love so much about working with Joe Montemuro? I think management for me. Well, first and foremost, I love the style of play, like football first, right? I love his training. I love his technical outlook on a game.

He really simplified the game and I loved that. I loved his philosophies, I loved his methodology. But then just as a person, I think that's what I would go to. He was so approachable, he was so relaxed. I never really saw him, I saw him go nuts in the dressing room once and that was because we were absolutely woeful that day.

That was well deserved. Was it shocking when it happened? Were you like, oh? Yeah, but I was a bit like, I know you're not like this, so like, what's going on? Like, are you okay? Because we're like that. But yeah, you never really saw him lose his cool. He was so easy to talk to. You could approach him about anything. You could talk to him about personal things. You could talk to him about football. He was this like all-encompassing experienced manager when he took us over at Arsenal. And I honestly, he'll get the warmest welcome coming back to the Emirates as

well. I think you know every all the girls still there that worked under him understand that and know that and fans as well I think he left on you know, he left in just after kovat, which was a pretty tricky time but I do think that when I When I saw we were gonna be chatting about that I was like, yeah He's gonna get the warmest welcome and I'm gonna be at the game and I cannot cannot wait to watch It's rare to see a manager leave in the modern game With their reputation not only intact but being incredibly

well thought of. You probably can count on one hand, Ellen, the amount of managers that leave teams at the moment with everyone wishing them well as they go out the door. Yeah, definitely. So you've got to give credit to him as a person. I think that's what it comes down to. You've got to be a good person to start with. You've got to be able to communicate with your players and, Jen said be approachable And then obviously it's even better when they've got a style of play that you love and you thrive under so Yeah, I feel like it's it's gonna be a it's gonna be a tough task obviously for for Arsenal coming up against Leon But I'm really excited for this game. I think it's gonna be

Obviously bouncing at Emirates, but yes, it going to be and the Leon fans are crazy they are crazy. They travel well don't they. I remember when we went away, oh my gosh I remember when we went away some there's 20,000 just like topless just going mental it was just wild. They were guys, topless guys, just to clarify. Yeah they were quite hardcore fans yeah, I'm really looking forward to this one of how it's going to play out.

Yeah, I've seen them so many times in Champions League finals that the numbers that they travel in, but they always seem to be able to find a way to sit all together. That group of fans that go absolutely huge will just be in a a block which makes for a wonderful atmosphere. On the Arsenal side of this one, Jen, a scan of social media will show you that Arsenal fans throughout the international break were just sitting there, crossing their fingers and toes being like, please not another injury, please not another injury. They got really unlucky here potentially. Well yeah, obviously Chloe Kelly, Alessia Russo,

Van Dom Saller as well, out for a spell of time. But this is a bigger conversation for me because this April block, I feel like is such a key window when you're coming back to domestic games. And it's crunch time of the season. You know, you're playing in semifinals, FA Cup finals. Campy's League is such a huge moment. I'm watching Lindsay Heaps go

all the way to play in LA, captain US and then come back and then she's got to play for Lyon and I'm thinking this is just, it is nuts the calendar of football but it's a bigger conversation. But 100% Arsenal fans would have been, you know, just hoping everyone gets through it and to see sort of big players, especially the ones that were so key in those Realm of Dread games, especially the one at home, the Russo, the form she's been in, you need your top players fit. We talk about depth of Chelsea and how they can pretty much play two 11s. Arsenal, I don't think are quite there.

Of course, they still have depth, they kind of fill those roles, but not quite as much as Chelsea. But I honestly think Leon are there for the taking mate. I've watched them a lot over Champions League. The Mourinho and Choing are absolutely unreal, but I don't think they're the Lyon that we've seen in previous seasons that dominate the European game from a football style of play type of game. So I'm thinking Arsenal can take this one,

and to see them in a Champions League final is hopefully be absolutely epic, but a home start will be so important. A good result at Emirates will be massive. What does your gut say on the other side of the semi-final? Barcelona vs Chelsea, Jen? Chelsea, you know, the whole winning ugly thing. Can they do it against Barcelona? I'm not sure. I know Barcelona have dropped a few points this season against Real Madrid so they're not the unbeatable. I honestly feel like no one's really at like miles ahead of anyone, which it's the most competitive

semi-final across four teams. It's four massive teams. I'm still tipping Barcelona for that one though in terms of style of play and I love watching them. The match-ups, Ellen you can go on to talk about match-ups but for me the biggest one Bon Matty and Cuthbert. Can't wait to watch that one in midfield. Yeah that looks insane. Ellen do you reckon the mental block might play a little part for some of these Chelsea players given how Barcelona historically have had the better of them? I don't think so, I think it's, I feel like they're just in a mode at the moment where they're just rolling, they're like a roller coaster where they're just... they're going for

everything and I think maybe Sonja might be thinking, oh they're annoying as well to be fair. I feel like, you know, everyone's probably got some revenge, haven't they? So I just feel like it's a really tricky one this game because they've both probably not performed in games as well as they should have and it's been interesting but when they've had to win they've won games and it's scored goals and I just think that they're just two phenomenal teams, two juggernauts and it's just I can't I don't know I can't call this one I'm not 100% sure how it's gonna go I don't want to say one or the other because I'm really excited to watch it but I feel like it is that midfield is

gonna be absolutely incredible to watch. I think tactically it's gonna be a joy isn't it? There's going to be so much. When we spoke to Sonja Bomberstore about the City games, the fact that she was going to play four times against City and was going to have to come up with a game plan for each one, I think whatever happens in the first one will be tossed completely to the side and both sides will do something completely different for the second leg, which is really, really cool because it means that the tie in theory should be wide open going into the second leg on the 27th of April. Just really quickly, on Barcelona, do you think perhaps because they've been so successful in the past that almost they've been slept on a little bit this year? I don't

feel there's been as much noise, Jen, around Barcelona in the same way that there was in years gone by. Yeah, I feel like they kind of really came out of the woodworks, like what you're saying a couple of seasons ago, where they were just steamrolling over players. I'll never forget playing them away and losing 4-1 in Champions League for Arsenal and thinking it was just the perfect team, right? You had players who dominated the ball and then you had Oshwala who they could just slip in and she was just the speed behind and it was the perfect combination of football. So maybe they've adapted that a little bit more

but I also think teams are getting defensively much better now. They're much more solid defensively in terms of lower blocks and it's becoming kind of like how you're seeing the Man City men. You know, teams are getting knowing how to play against them. You have to have more than just playing beautiful football. You have to be more adaptable and we're seeing that with Chelsea this season. So no, it's, you know, they went a couple of seasons unbeaten and they haven't done that this year. So that's why they don't have the same narrative. Team, they have been beaten. They're not unbeatable.

So I think that's why it becomes so much more competitive and you kind of bring up the other team as well and it becomes a more even narrative, which I love. I think none of these teams are really flying forward and miles ahead of anyone, which is what you want to see at this point. Any chance we see an All-English Women's Champions League final, Ellen?

I hope so, that'll be so cool. It'll be amazing. So just big up the WSL as well, to be the best league in the world. Not NWSL. No. I'm joking, I'm joking. Very, very true.

That would be absolutely incredible, wouldn't it, seeing an All-Eng Orling. Imagine the atmosphere for that and just all of the build up. I think that's probably the best thing about Champions League finals is that both teams get that extended period to build up to it where you can let your mind run and anything's possible for those couple of weeks beforehand. It would be absolutely incredible. Full commentary of Arsenal against Lyon. That'll be on 5 Live and BBC Sounds this Saturday. Game kicks off at 12.30. WPL returns after the international break as well. Four fixtures this weekend. West Ham against

Man United that's Saturday at midday. Commentary of that game on 5 Sports Extra. Brighton against Liverpool Saturday at 12.30. Then we've got Man City v Everton at 1pm on Sunday and Spurs against Villa Sunday at 2pm and then we've got a weeks break between the first and second legs where Chelsea have a WSL game in between their Champions League fixtures as they are also in FA Cup action. This is the point, you were making about 5 minutes minutes ago Jen but we do naturally get this bottleneck don't we in the season where you're almost cramming games in and everything matters so much more if you don't have the sort of squad depth

that Chelsea do you're sort of clinging on at this stage aren't you to try and keep players fit because really every game at this stage means something? This was the best part of the season for me, I absolutely loved it. When you're crunched at every game was like a cup final, whether you're chasing a title or chasing Charmies League or trying to get to any final possible to lift a trophy, but you're down to bare bones. I think you're always going to have niggles. And barely training I imagine right? Yeah, you're yeah, because you have three games a week. So you're barely

Yeah, you're just playing recovering training match day minus one and then playing a game. I absolutely loved it, but it is about Keeping as fresh as possible and like what you said if you have injuries at this point and it's like crunch time you think We need to step up elsewhere or trying to just try and keep everyone fit as possible But yeah, it's always kind of rearranged fixtures, especially if you get to semis because then it becomes weekend game. So one WSL fixtures got to be shifted somewhere else, but I loved it mate I was like this was the best part of the season for me where you're just chasing trophies and trying to win as much as possible and it's kind of you really feel like

The focus just got honed in at the start of the season. It's very much I'll start season, you know find our feet and then it was like boom come April. It's crunch time So as a fan, I loved it now and as a player, I loved it even more. It's awesome Yeah It's like say goodbye to social plans on your weekends for the next six weeks as we just do crunch time in the football. You're really lucky us because like, at your household, your partner will keep you on top of it won't he? He'll be like, oh by the way kick-offs at 12.30. Yeah, thanks.

Absolutely love it. Such an exciting month for football ahead. And that is where we'll leave it on the Women's Football Weekly. Thanks so much to Jen and to El's. Next week Women's Football Weekly will land on your podcast feed just a little bit later than usual. That's because we'll be coming to you live and direct on Tuesday the 22nd of April. That's on BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds between 8.30 and 9.30pm so make sure you join us for that.

Next up on the feed, Kelly Cates presents the Champions League debrief. It's the scandal that rocked rugby union to its core. The so-called Bloodgate scandal. Tom Williams now receiving attention. It seems so clear that this wasn't real blood. It's out and out cheating. This is a story of lies and deception, conspiracies and cover-ups. There was terror that it could tear the house down.

Courtroom drama and secret deals. So obviously a lie. And a human cost that changed lives and careers forever. Dee Richards is found guilty and banned for three years. I'm Ross Kemp and this is Sport Strangers Crimes, Bloodgate. Listen on BBC Sounds.