Football Daily - Women's Football Weekly: Chelsea and Arsenal face uphill battles in the Champions League

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Ellen White, Jen Beattie and Ben Haines react to the Women’s Champions League semi-final first legs. They are joined by BBC Sport’s Emma Sanders who was in Barcelona, to dissect what went so wrong for Chelsea, who trail 4-1 heading into the second leg. They also react to Arsenal’s first leg against Lyon – will they regret not making more of their chances against a Lyon team with an impressive home record? Plus they focus on Liverpool’s Olivia Smith after an impressive few weeks – what does she need to do to continue her upwards progression?TIME CODES: 1’17 Reaction to Barcelona v Chelsea 5’27 Emma Sanders joins the pod 24’06 Reaction to Arsenal v Lyon 24’17 Renee Slegers post Lyon 36’55 One to watch: Liverpool’s Olivia Smith

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. He's really good. He's going to win it. Don't worry about that. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the Inside Track, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts Hello and welcome to the women's football weekly podcast on the football daily feed as ever We're joined by record England goalscorer Ellen White and former Scotland defender. Jen Beatty Ellen. How are you? I'm very well Ben How are you? Yeah, really well and All the better having Gem Beatty alongside me. I've got Gem alongside me now,

but she's about to go and do a tour of Europe, aren't you? Well, nothing changes then, does it? I'm always here, there and everywhere. Where's next? Bit of Scotland first? Bit of Scotland tomorrow, yeah. Glasgow. I'm on a 7.10 in the morning flight, actually. So early start for me. And then very lucky to be off to Lyon this weekend to see the second leg so I'm very excited for that. Gonna be so exciting that second leg isn't it? Farts my French all over again. We will be getting into the Champions League, tough results for both Arsenal and Chelsea,

can they turn those around? In the return fixtures Plenty of big talking points in the WSL this weekend as well as another goal for Liverpool's Olivia Smith on Saturday. But is she being unfairly targeted by defenders? All that and lots more. But only one place to start. That is the Women's Champions League where both England's English teams, Arsenal and Chelsea, were beaten in the first leg of their semi-finals. More to come on Arsenal in a moment but let's kick off with Chelsea's 4-1 defeat in Barcelona. Chelsea given a very early warning sign with Hannah Hampton brilliantly saving an Alexia Pitelles penalty but after that it was one-way traffic. Barcelona pouncing on Chelsea errors to leave Chelsea's hopes hanging

by a thread. Ellen do you want to go first? What did you make of the performance? Oh, thanks. Just throw me under the bus. Yeah, throw you under the bus here. You go first. You take it. Do you know what? If I'm being perfectly honest, I think I personally underestimated Barcelona going into this game. I feel like I was like, Chelsea are going to be at the forefront. They've been phenomenal in the WSL. Yes yes they haven't performed as well in the last few weeks but wow Barcelona were so good. Their rhythm, their momentum, the way they passed the ball, the goals that they scored, I thought they had a little bit of that physicality that I thought Chelsea would put on them, which

I thought was an interesting kind of flip on what I anticipated for the game. Um, yeah, I just also their depth as well, the players that will be able to put on the likes of Pina coming on and scoring and she's obviously the top goal scorer in champions league and what, what an asset to have to come on. Yeah. I just didn't think that Chelsea really got a grip of the game and it was quite frustrating, but then they got a chance at two, one, so, you know, they're backing it. Could you take that back to Stamford Bridge? But I feel like they left themselves quite exposed, they looked quite fatigued, and then

Barca do Barca things and score another two goals, and I feel like it's a massive uphill battle now for Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Taking a 4-1 defeat home is a real challenge for them come the weekend. Jen? Yeah, no. Ellen's spot on. I think there were positives in the game, but I'm looking at it. We bigged up Chelsea a lot from the WSL of how they've exceeded a lot of expectations from the start.

They've been at the forefront of everything, right? They've been the team to beat this season. But then you're looking at, right, we have that narrative. Man City have had a lot of injuries so has that created that? Who's been able to compete with Chelsea? And then you just see the jump from WSL to Champions League and how much of a step up it is and I think we've become a bit naive to that.

We've become a bit, okay, Chelsea have dominated the WSL, you see how much of a jump it is, but I think for me that they'll be the most disappointed at the way that they ended the game. I think 2-1, we see it with Arsenal, great result to either take home to Stamford Bridge or go away to Lyon. They were in the game and I think with regards to what Elan's saying, the depth and the quality, they've got the game changers Barcelona have, but 2-1 is not a bad result at all to take back home and play in front of your home fans. With that said, crazier things have happened in European football

lately, we've all seen how even 3-0 deficits aren't enough, but don't get me wrong, when you get to semi-finals that's a big gap. The quality is so much higher and it's a huge task for them. I'm really fascinated by that point about being numb to the idea of that jump Because we've seen Chelsea look so good over the course of the season that perhaps as Ellen said you almost underestimate Just how good an opponent Barcelona are yeah and even look I'll jump to Leon Leon have always fascinated me with the jump from How not very competitive the French league is how they've dominated so much in the European and how they were able to step up when it is so much harder but not night you know use a strong word but I just think Chelsea were in the game and I'll keep saying this they were 2-1 would have been a great result is the

last 10 minutes that they'll be so frustrated with and I loved Lucy Brown's reaction man I could talk about that all day that the intensity of that speech that she was giving in the huddle at the end. And, you know, there's big players in that dressing room and they've, of course they've got a midweek game, so that's going to be tough. They'll want the full focus to be on coming back and playing at home next weekend, but they can do it. I'm an optimist. Is one thing to see games like this on TV. I want to bring in BBC Sports Emma Sanders, who was in Barcelona and joins us now. Evening, Em, How are you? Evening, yeah. Nice to see you all. You've made it back then? Yeah, just

about. Yeah, I was a bit shocked by the weather when I landed and it was raining in Manchester. Absolutely. Well, that was a shock to the system. Tell us what it was like from your point of view out there in Barcelona, because Barcelona are one of these sides that when you watch on TV, you sort of see them string two or three passes together. I think, god that looks so simple, but there's so much going on off the ball that we're all not getting in real time. Yeah, absolutely. And I thought I completely agreed with what Ellen said about the physicality. That really surprised us in the media as well. And what I noticed was just how sort of in sync they are with the fans.

So any little niggle, any little foul, or just anything that the fans felt was against their players. They were straight onto the referee, and the players sort of reacted to that. And they were just really smart. Like, I haven't got a problem with that. I actually quite enjoy that side of the game. It's just really smart gameplay. And you could see it was frustrating the Chelsea players. They were getting more wound up

and it was really playing to their advantage. So that was probably the main thing I took away was just that edge maybe that I haven't seen before. We all talk about them being this beautiful team that play a beautiful way and they did that but they also brought the English physicality with them as well and the snide-ness off the ball, which yeah, like I said, I actually really enjoyed but Look, I think one of the main takeaways was just Alexia Piteas I think she's playing some of her best football again now since her return from injury. She was brilliant I think on the night and Yeah, you were mentioning before about the squad depth, the fact they had, you know,

the likes of Ingrid Engen who came off from the bench at centre-back, quality centre-back, who came on at half-time, you've got Frida Lina-Rolfo who was on the bench and then obviously Cardio Pino coming on and scoring two goals. Barcelona are just a fantastic team and to watch them live, you really, yeah, you can really see that. I was just going to say about that physicality when Ramirez, I can't remember who she stood on her foot and then when Mapa Leon completely changed direction and just absolutely took out Ramirez. And I just think, does the crowd then, like you said,

do they get on top of Barcelona? Do you feel like that affected Chelsea at all, that atmosphere? Maybe they went inside themselves a little bit because I just felt like it kind of raised Barcelona's levels maybe 10, 15 percent. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if it was the fact that it was the atmosphere or it was a fact that the fans were having that impact on the referee. And then Chelsea were getting it in their head that, you know, the referee was against them and things were unfair. And, you know, I saw Lucy Bronze's comments afterwards and I did disagree with them. Like, I didn't think the referee was playing in Barcelona's favour.

I just think it felt that way to them because every time there was there was any sort of sense of something going Barcelona's way, the crowd were straight onto the referee and on their side. So I think in that sense, yeah, it did affect them. Just to give a little bit of context there in terms of what Lucy Bronze spoke about after the game. She said that the way that the game played out suited Barcelona both on and off the ball and then in turn perhaps the way that the game was refereed them. Now, one thing that jumped out to me straight away, Barcelona fans on top of Chelsea players as soon as there was any niggle, any injury, right on top of the Chelsea players, booing

from the moment that they went down. And that actually inadvertently had a hand in the third goal for Barcelona at a really crucial moment of the game. Natalie Bjon goes down with an injury and you hear this roar from the crowd as they get up and they're whistling and booing and Natsumi is taking off the pitch and Chelsea play with 10 for three minutes and so can't get Naomi Germer on until a corner is given. I mean that now that you look at it in isolation it was like a huge moment in the tie. Yeah it was and we asked Sonia Bonpasta about that afterwards because like you say Naomi Germer coming on obviously the world record transfer signing coming on, and she's hardly

played. She's been out injured, thrown in at the deep end in the Chamuziek semi-final with about 15 minutes to go, 10 minutes to go, and straight onto a set piece. And Sonia said that she didn't feel that that substitution played a part and that everyone knew their roles and everyone did the right things, but clearly they didn't because they conceded from a corner. So that has to have an impact, even if it's not on individuals. I think just that disruption just before a set piece,

I'm interested to kind of know from Ellen and Jen's point of view, like as a player, if that does make a difference, but certainly watching on, it just felt like a really chaotic couple of minutes and then they score and suddenly it feels like the tire's getting away from them and then they don't recover from that

and then they fall one down and that is so difficult to go back into the second leg with. Ellen, do you wanna jump in? I'm not gonna write what I wrote in the document. That will go viral. Please do, please do. That will go viral. I think everyone sat here will know and I hope

everyone listening, you do not make a substitution for a defensive corner. It just doesn't happen. I feel like it's just an unwritten rule maybe that you just don't make that change. I think it's a little bit of naivety and just I feel like you need a little bit of dark arts I think in those moments where beyonds gone down injured keep her on the pitch Give Germer a bit of time to get warm. Just assess what's happening. Don't drag her off the pitch. Just play it out Yes, the crowd are gonna be booing you let them do that It's fine you take your time and you do what's needed for your team in those moments.

And obviously they take her off and Chelsea don't kick the ball out, which is obviously very frustrating. And then obviously it goes out for a corner and then that's the time when they decide to make the substitution, which you just don't do that in football, I don't feel. Maybe in an attacking corner, yes, in that sense. But yes, everyone might know their roles, but it just disrupts it. What's your thoughts, Jen? I mean, I'm listening to you agreeing everything you're saying. I think, golden rule, you don't make a sub at defensive corner, but I completely get the perspective that you've got 10 players on the pitch, you have to get the numbers back up. So I understand why they do it. It's

for sure one of those moments. And I've been in that situation multiple times where something happens with the medical team in terms of decisions, communications that's been made, timings in which things happen, you know, can leaders on the field have done something different in but those are the kind of moments that will be analyzed and assessed after within staff teams and as players players as well don't get me wrong but those moments happen and mistakes are made and I genuinely think Sonia Bonpastora is kind of she's being and respectfully so a little bit protective of her staff and her players in that moment but I for sure if I was in that moment and in that team that would have been something that would have been readdressed after as how can we make because moments matter, seconds matter,

three minutes is not an amount of time that anyone wants to be a player down against Barcelona whether it's a set piece coming up or not it's those decisions that are really important and I think she's definitely respect them protecting her staff in that moment but I think it would be reassessed and you have to keep her on the pitch, allow play to stop, allow to make a sub and you know, allow time so that come a set piece and and Bonpas does right, everyone will know their role but the process has to be right leading up to it in time frames and not allow minutes to pass by. I want to go back just a little guys there was a moment in

the first half, Hannahampton makes a huge save. Em, you feel at that point when Hannahampton makes the save that it's one of two things, either alarm bells are going off for the Chelsea defence and they need to wake up, or that could be the moment that sparks Chelsea into life. It was neither. Yeah, I think that's such a good way of putting it. I think it was just really flat, wasn't it? And I think afterwards, the feeling generally was just the quality wasn't there from the Chelsea players. And I think that's probably the most disappointing thing

is when that moment happened. When Jen mentioned the Lucy bronze post-match sort of team huddle, and I really liked that energy, but in the game, there was kind of none of that. So when Hannah made that save, there was none of these sort of big, big celebrations. There was no leaders on the pitch sort of, you know, directing their teammates to kind of, you know, keep their heads, make the most of it. Like there was, there was nothing like that. There was none of that communication. I was sort of

looking at the likes of kind of, you know, Aaron Cuthbert, Kira Walsh, Mini Bright, Lucy Bronzos types players to kind of really take the game. And none of them did. And I think that was kind of the disappointing thing. And then they obviously went in at halftime and it just felt a bit flat. And then they came out in the second half and there was, if anything, it sort of got worse in the second half. They were even poorer on the ball. And I think Barcelona stepped up then, didn't they?

So, yeah, I think that was that was probably the moment moment that they needed and they just didn't react to it. It was really fascinating watching the game back, Jen, because when you start analyzing things, not in real time, and you can take the game in as a whole, it's remarkable just how tired the Chelsea players look with about 20 minutes to go. Is that because it's Barcelona that they're playing and Barcelona drain teams

or is it because they've just reached this point in the season where a lot of similar players have been working incredibly hard across four competitions? Yeah, I think this is a tricky one because I think if you said to the Chelsea players they look tired they'd be absolutely gutted and I think no matter, every team in the league, every competition is tired come this point in the season and you just grind that out. It's rest, recover, play, do the same thing again. You barely train, you know it's three games a week, that's the way it is but I just think even when there's talk of

fatigue or them looking a bit you know lackluster of leadership I'm sort of thinking maybe that was the game plan to just sit in and be tight and of course they still got outplayed. These games are over two legs so maybe they're going to play more intense at home and go a higher press and really take the game to them. You know, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were playing, they weren't playing tight, that's not what I'm trying to say, but they were playing tight, playing more conservative, not allowing, or trying not to allow Barcelona centrally in too many moments of the game. I genuinely think the frustration from Chelsea's point of view will come from the last 10 minutes. I will keep saying it, that they were in the game and

I think they knew that themselves. I think the whole tactics was to not let a big gap happen between these two games and they would have known in that game they were being outplayed maybe it wasn't clicking sometimes that happens so you're not going to play your best performances every single game but when that doesn't happen you stay in you stay in it and that's what they didn't do in the last 10 minutes I think that's where the frustration comes from. Ellen what do they need to do now in terms of the second leg?

If Jen scored a hat-trick against Barca then I think Chelsea. I didn't even pay you to say that. 50 quid going right in your bank. Thank you, thank you very much. Does anyone know Ellen's goal scoring record? Do you know what, it's an uphill battle, It really is. Like Jen said, like Em said, if you were to take 2-1 back to Stamford Bridge, I think I would have been laughing. I'd have been like, absolutely, I'll take that home any day. 4-1 is a lot. And I think for me, I think Chelsea can score a lot of goals, but can they not concede is my thing. Barca are going to score goals. I feel like they've got it in their locker. They know, they've shown time and time again they can score goals and Chelsea have shown that as

well. They'll have a great crowd behind them. I feel like it's a really tricky one because they've got to play midweek. They've got to play on Wednesday as well. Can they make rotations? Barca made seven so they were able to give their players a little bit of rest so they looked fresh. They looked like they had intensity and the Chelsea players did look fatigued, but they have to give everything now. But then on the other side, they need that buffer in the WSL as well if they want to win the title. So it's a really tricky one. I think that they do believe they can. It's just whether they can score enough goals and not concede against Barcelona. I'm not quite sure that they could do that. And Emma, just finally on this, I did want to pick your brains on Alexia Petelas because

you mentioned her at the top. Wonderful on the ball, she looks like she's back to that level that we enjoyed watching her at a couple of years ago, but it's not just the way that she plays, she looks physically back at that level as well. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, she looks really, really sharp, just really, really slick on the ball. Off the ball, she was so impressive. Just the way she read the game and some of the passes that she made

without even thinking about it, she just knew where her players were. I think there was a couple of moments where she sort of flicked it on straight away to sort of Ewa Payoh. And I think when you've got a striker like Payor in the team and she's just, she's a proper number nine, I think the way that she played for Barcelona.

And I think when you've got her in the team and you've got Alexi Piseas with the quality that she has, yeah, they were really devastating when they had the ball in those positions against Chelsea in the first leg. So yeah, I agree with Ellen. I do worry that, you know, Chelsea might be able to score three again, but can they not concede? I'm not so sure. I actually asked Sonja about that sort of centre back

partnership of Nathalie Bjorn and Millie Bright, that's been kind of so important for them in the WSL this season. She said before the game that they needed to be strong defensively to stand any chance against Barcelona. And you could sort of see just how, you know, I suppose deflated she was post-match. And she kept mentioning the fact that they don't often concede four goals. So I think even though they're, you know, on the outside, they're saying that they believe they can do it. I think it definitely hit them and they're not used to conceding for and I think that

will be in their minds. And which semi-final do we find you at this weekend? I'm actually on a hen-do. Oh there you go. No English side getting you a coverage this weekend. Absolutely love it. No worries. Thanks so much, Emma.

We'll speak to you soon. Take care guys. See you later. Well, at least one of us will be at a semi-final this weekend. I want to know where the hen was. Ideally, maybe somewhere in southwest London, so she could zip across. Ellen, I did just want to ask you about the nature of this Chelsea side at the moment. Sonja Bomperstor comes in. She said to us on the Women's Football Weekly,

there's no pressure on me because I'm here to win the Champions League, I know how to do it, I've done it before. She's brought in Lucy Bronze, who as Jen mentioned is a phenomenal leader. She brought in Keira Walsh in January as well, who's got experience of doing it. What hasn't quite ticked in that first leg with that added experience that they have. It's a real tough one really. I just feel like Barcelona just looked a step ahead intensity wise. I don't know whether all the backlog of games have really kind of took its toll on these players. And that's not to say I think they've got more than enough in their locker to beat some of the best teams in Europe, like Barcelona, like Lyon.

I just think this game was too much for them. Barcelona were just streams and streams ahead of them. Our intensity, physicality, the way they moved the ball tactically. And I feel like potentially more defensive changes potentially, maybe in that second half, just to freshen up that back line a little bit, just on the flanks, I would say, maybe the right back and left back, because that's where they're really getting a lot of their joy, a lot of their crosses.

You know, Pienaar scored a first goal from a cross. And then I just I just feel like they looked quite fatigued. I know Jen said that they'll be really frustrated for us to say that but it did look like that and I feel like even a 2-0 would have been okay, I feel, going home with that. So yeah, it's a tough one really. I just feel like Barcelona just looked streams ahead. I feel like when you say what was missing, of course Chelsea have invested this year with a manager that's been there done it, Lucy Braun's been there done it, Keira Walsh,

Naomi Germer would have added to this team. She got injured very early on from her first appearance with the team and how disappointing that was. I think she would have been a big miss. I know England hasn't quite seen what she can do yet in the domestic league, but if we're talking about what was missing for Chelsea, she would have been a key part if she'd gotten to a flow. Lauren James, the other one, massive injury off the back of international break. And if you're talking about being defensively solid and getting a team on the counter, she's a threat that is a threat in any team, can go and hurt any team, whether she can go against the momentum in any moment, whether Barcelona would have been dominating the ball. So if we're talking about what's missing, those two key players for me were two massive things.

It's kind of strange to be sitting here and talking about one performance as it feeling almost so season defining, considering how good Chelsea have been. I mean, you mentioned it at the top of the show, Jen. We've spoken almost every week about how incredible Chelsea have been across the board. Yeah. And this is the beauty of Champions League though, it's the same with Arsenal, watching the top teams in WSL be beaten by other European teams, it's like what happened? How did that? What was the analysis of it? Ultimately the quality across Europe is unbelievable and I think we're at the forefront of being really positive about English teams because we want

an all English final and how incredible that would have been. But ultimately, Leon have dominated the European stage, Barcelona have dominated in most recent years and these are two very very top teams. I'm Aaron Paul and I'm Jobe Makhno. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. I can't put a finger on why we weren't as energetic as we usually are.

What they've got there is genuinely good people that really care about that football club and the fans have been huge in terms of the backing that they've given to this. Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast with exclusive access to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards. And I'm sports journalist Matt Magendie. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. He's really good. He's going to win it. Don't

worry about that. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the inside track wherever you get your podcasts. Let's switch over then focus now and discuss Arsenal vs Lyon. With Arsenal training 2-1 heading to France this weekend, we'll begin by hearing what their manager René Sleggers had to say after the game. I don't think it was a shock but of course it's very high level opposition so the tempo is higher and you know you'll get punished if you make mistakes. And I think we had to settle into the game and create a belief while we were playing. And I think that shows in the way we come out in the second half and how we play our game,

even though we're playing against a really strong opponent with so much threat that we have the courage and the bravery to play our game. And so, yeah, we grow into the game from that perspective. And I think in that period, against an opposition like Lyon, with so much threat, I think when we then have momentum, we need to score. And that's what we do in the end. But yeah, we probably should have scored at least one more in that phase of the game while you're at home at

the Emirates against such a strong opponent. We worked really hard to get that goal and then it was disappointing that they score very quickly afterwards because then we're chasing the game again. But yeah, it's halftime and it's one goal down so we still have the opportunities when we play them next week. Rene Slegg is there, I wonder Jen what will she be saying behind closed doors, what will she be thinking? I want to say exactly that, I think they can take so much confidence from that game at the Emirates, I know they're 2-1 down in the tie but there were moments where they dominated

the ball, Lyon's game plan of course was to sit in a mid block and allow Arsenal to have the ball and be able to play passes across across their back line, but it's The best thing you can do against teams like that is create chances I'm sure Ellen will say the same thing as long as you're creating chances as a team The next thing is to just finish them. You have to be clinical and take your opportunities There wasn't that much difference between the two teams. I was there at the game, I was watching it. And the biggest thing for me was, Leon were clinical in the moments that mattered. And

the moments that Arsenal got it wrong, i.e. the press in the first half, you have a player like Deane up against you who's going to take an opportunity and finish it. And it was an unbelievable finish. But it was, both teams had four shots on target. Game ends 2-1 and that for me is down to being clinical, taking your chances and making the right decisions in the big moments. But with that said, René will be filling this team with as much confidence as possible knowing that they're in the game. This isn't a 4-1, it's a completely different narrative. Arsenal are well and truly in it so for me this is a completely different conversation for Arsenal going to Lyon. Ellen, I'd imagine when they look back and do the analysis, it won't take long to be

going over those missed opportunities and not many words need saying with the nature of the chances that Arsenal missed. Yeah, I think exactly what Jen said really. You've got a score in those moments, you have to be clinical. And they had some really amazing chances they had the Beth Mead header and you kind of want a Russo in that in that position and then Manham had another a couple of opportunities where you just like oh even just make you know the keeper make it make a decision or make a save get it on target and they're are, they're game changing. And I feel like what was the

difference between them and kind of watching that Chelsea game was that it was great, they really imposed themselves, they played the Arsenal way and it was working and they were creating chances in those wide areas, taking advantage of Wendy Renard not playing, putting the balls in the box, making the Leon defence make a decision and have to defend and then at the end of the day to win football games you have to score goals and unfortunately they just didn't take their chances when they were given those opportunities and I hope that those opportunities aren't going to really cost them come the game at the weekend really.

Did it take a while for Arsenal to get up to the tempo of the game? Did it take a little while for them to start matching Leon? I was surprised at that. I don't think they eased into the game. I think both teams, it's hard when you're talking about both teams that play a similar style and a similar structure and a similar shape. The games will go like that naturally. It's not going to start everyone high pressing and this being back and forth high intensity game. I think both teams played into it if I'm honest and

grew into the game. I don't think anyone came out the blocks absolutely flying but I understand what she what Renee's saying as in it's over two legs but no for me I don't think I think they started really well and tried exactly what Alan said and they played the Arsenal way and were true to their game and they were playing at home and were filled with confidence in that sense. So do you change anything then going away, going to Lyon? My only worry, right, going away to Lyon, my only worry is Lyon are up 2-1, will they sit in a low, it's a different game. They're already winning. So I think

Arsenal might try and expect that. They know that even in the first leg they let them have the ball, I think they'll do that even more. So I think they just have to expect that a little bit more. And kind of another big moment that Ellen touched on there, will Wendy Renard be back in the squad in the starting line-up? Because crosses in the box were really effective. I think that's where Arsenal's best chances came from. So she's back in the squad in the starting line-up because crosses in the box were really effective? I think that's where Arsenal's best chances came from so she's back in the side. That's a different game Different tactics you have to play more passes in and around the box and break them down in that sense So two biggest things well will Leon sit in and be harder to break down because they're already 2-1 up and will Renard be Back in the side that that will have to change tactically for Arsenal

Yeah, and we mentioned earlier on just how good the Barcelona squad depth is, Ellen. León are in a very similar position, aren't they, when you see the substitutions they were able to make and the subs they didn't make. The fact that they had four or five incredibly talented senior internationals that they didn't even need to touch. I know, it's absolutely ridiculous. And there was that combination of kind of Hegerberg, Margeri, and then obviously De Morne scoring, you know, straight after Caldente scores the penalty. And just those combinations,

and it just seems to be those connections just work, and they were just so clinical. And they just cut through. That goal gets better the more you watch it, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. The more that you look at it, the more you start to realize what they're doing there. Just drawing out Lya, Hegerberg, that flick around the corner then the Marjory pass into De Mornay but De Mornay anticipating it and then the strength, the power, the desire to

split straight through the defence and a beautiful finish as well. So it's a really tricky one that their depth is unbelievable and we're saying with Barcelona and we I feel like what Jensen I've been very kind of naive or almost like not being like more aware of just they are so talented they've won the champions league Leon like eight times Barcelona have won it three times in the last four years like they're phenomenal they they're a juggernaut, they just keep moving and I just think for English teams you've just got to step up that next level and I'm not saying Arsenal didn't put a great account of themselves, I think they could potentially go on to win, it's just these teams know how to win Champions League games.

Well I think that's the, they know how to up, right? You're at the game and Arsenal get a penalty and the momentum is with them and all of a sudden it's 1-1 and you know, the fans are roaring, you're thinking, right, this could go Arsenal's way, you know, they're back in the game, momentum is going that way. Teams like that know how to level up and I'm watching and you're spot on Ben, the goal does get better the more you watch it. It's one touch football, it's back foot receiving, it's breaking lines, it's patterns that are straight off the training ground that you practice day in day out, that honestly rarely ever happen because it's so hard to slice through a midfield like they did. But the way that they did it right after

conceding, that's just a level of class and a mentality that they know in moments that they need to step up. The morning for me, I've talked about her quite a lot, like only 21 years old, showing so much maturity and her finishing is incredible. For someone that age to be stepping into this side and earning a starting spot every single time, knowing the amount of depth they have by the way. Hegerberg's their top goalscorer across Champions League but she's on the bench. That's someone she's bringing into the team. But it's the level up for me. They know when to switch up their game and they know when to add certain attributes to their game that they practice day in day out but it's the speed of it that blew my mind. That's a goal that Arsenal will blink twice and you miss it. It comes right through your

midfield and you're wanting to analyse that straight away. How did that happen? We spoke a little bit earlier on about how the crowd in Barcelona were all part of it. It definitely felt when that second goal went in for Lyon, it was like a sting. There was suddenly a hush around the stadium having just got the momentum wrestled back in Arsenal's favour. Yeah, and there's nothing worse than that. If you're playing at home or away, you want the crowd on you no matter what. And I think, but like credit to the fans in the stadium they got back behind the team but I think that's the

I guess positivity is the right word they were behind the team and then that is this thing that okay you see the quality and I think you know you could hear half the crowd take a little half-breath like how did that happen you know we were up we were on it we're used to seeing our side dominate teams as well you're used to as an Arsenal, see Arsenal players win games, especially at the Emirates by the way, the amount of goals they've scored there, the amount of clean sheets they've had, so to concede two at the Emirates, of course it would be a sting. And a different proposition, a different challenge for Arsenal, Ellen, from Chelsea going to

Lyon and knowing that it won't take much to get back into the game, but equally if they open up, easily the game could get away from them. Exactly, yeah, and the crowd are quite hostile in Leon. I've played there and it's wild. It's mental. So the atmosphere will be insane. But like you say, do Arsenal go for it, but then leave themselves a little bit exposed in the transition and those spaces which we saw with the Diani goal Or do they kind of sit in and kind of bide their time move the ball Possess the ball and try and kind of pick kind of Leon off really so it's a real tricky one of how How they go about it because obviously they need to score a goal ultimately, but obviously it's 90 minutes

You don't have to score straight away but the longer it goes on the more you get a little bit nervous, a bit more anticipation. Leon will be quite happy with you know sitting which Jen said that potentially more of a low block so it'll be interesting what René Sleggers does and how tactically they set up and go for the game really. Just looking ahead to these two games Jen, what does your gut tell you in terms of the progression through to the final? Are we seeing an English side in there? I'm more inclined for Arsenal. I think based on how tight the game was at the Emirates, I'm leaning towards them for sure because I know that, I don't think they'll play very differently. I think they got the press wrong once and Deani scored. I can't think they'll play very differently. I think they got the press wrong once and De'Anni scored. I can't think of many other times where Leon played through from a goal

kick. I think the Arsenal press was very, very good and I think if they do that again they can go and get a result against Leon away. I wondered whether there'd be a little bit of you that'd be thinking, Joe Montemuro, we'll just want to just shut this down, just sap all of the energy out of the game. I mean of course you would. and anyone playing against your old team, whether you're a player or a coach, you know, even seen Van de Donk back at the Emirates and how much of an occasion that would have been. But I'm not sure. I generally think he'll play it that way.

I think they'll play it more conservative, but Arsenal will go for it, obviously, based on the results so far. Ellen? I don't know, Ben. I would love to see an English team, I think it would be amazing. I just think, I would love to see Chelsea turn it around. What an occasion the memories created to see that happen, I'm just not too sure but yeah I think Arsenal could potentially do it and that would be phenomenal.

Do you think that the point you mentioned earlier on, that mental barrier, is becoming a bigger and bigger thing for the English teams at the moment? Just with the know-how that Lyon have got, the know-how that Barcelona have got. Yeah it's a huge mental hurdle, just the experience and the way that they can win Champions League games, step them up, just another level and if Arsenal were to do it and take that mental hurdle and get into that final it would just be phenomenal and the same for Chelsea but it's tall order I think going to Stamford Bridge like we said at 2-1 it might have been a different story so yeah we can all dream and hope and it would be absolutely incredible a Chelsea Arsenal final that's what we dream of really. Chelsea Barcelona is on Sunday at 2 o'clock, Leon Arsenal at 5 o'clock on Sunday as well. Let's turn focus now to the WSL. I'm going to take a look at Liverpool's Olivia Smith

who's got everyone talking this season. Another goal for her at the weekend as part of a 2-1 win against Brighton and that makes it 7 in the WSL. Ellen, want to watch here? Yeah, she's a phenomenal talent isn't she she's still young Needs to you know keep progressing learning her trade She has such a great ability to outrun defenders and I scored some very good goals She seems to score very early in games as well recently She just can't gets everyone off guard and just absolutely storms through and just smash it in the back of the net Yeah, seven goals is really good for her, obviously her first season in the WSL. I'd like to see more assists, obviously, being

a wide player and contributing that side, but yeah, I feel like she's a great talent and someone that is really exciting to watch and hopefully we'll see an amazing progression and we keep her in the WSL as well. I wanted to get to this. So Liverpool fourth last year, nine points adrift of Arsenal in third. Their fifth this year with a 12 point gap to City. Olivia Smith is exactly the sort of player that you need to keep hold of if you want to bridge that gap, isn't she? No, for sure. And we talk about, you know, the gap that we don't want to happen. Okay. The kind of investment that we see top teams making, especially when, when young players are available. She reminds

me of a younger Lauren hemp, you know, when the hyper in when, when hemp was at Bristol and kind of Man City saw that and got a hold of her, but it is so important. And this is the shift that, you know, you want to see teams like Liverpool, Man United that have climbed tables and impressed in seasons before hold on to players like that. I think if you're a Liverpool player right now, especially as well, you're looking around the dressing room being like, if we want to do anything next year we need to keep hold of her. And I think that always sets a tone and sets a marker going into next season of exactly what club wants to achieve. Don't get me wrong, of course it's difficult when a big number comes in and what the club can

do with that number, but for me, 100%, they need to keep a hold of it if they want to do anything next year. It gets harder and harder doesn't it as well for Liverpool to almost keep a lid on the noise around her, but particularly when you're coming into games and sides are trying to match up against their respective opponent, respective challenges. Matt B had mentioned earlier on in the season that he felt that she was getting unfairly treated by opposition defenders. And I wonder what your take on this was, Ellen, whether this is just part and parcel of the game or whether she is being singled out because teams feel that she's such a threat.

I don't think she's being singled out in the sense of just go tackle her and just take her out the game. I think she's being singled out in the sense that she's a very good player and we want to obviously nullify her because she's a great talent and she could destroy defenses. She's got great speed. She's technically gifted. She can score goals. And I think for her, that's a compliment. And I think for her to elevate her next game, she needs to be smarter on the ball. Can she move the ball a bit quicker? Can she go in the gym, build the tolerance up to be able to deal with impact of fouls, how to fall, you know, build more physical tolerance of different types of contact.

And I think, you know, it's the players around her and the system that they create as well to be able to give the ball for her to run into space. Yeah, I don't think she's being singled out. I just think very good and talented players get tackled. Lauren James gets tackled. Mo Salah, for instance, in the Premier League, he gets tackled quite a lot. And I think the top person was Asayi actually in West Ham, she's fouled the most and I think it was Olivia Smith just below

her so I think it's the nature of the game and the physicality of the WSL at the same time. Can you see where the frustration comes from Jan? I mean she's had to go off at half time at the weekend with another knock that she's had on being on the receiving end of a pretty hefty challenge. Honestly I agree with Ellen on this one. The amount of times that I've seen Kim Little come off bruised and battered from tacos or Beth Mead being chopped and it just happened, it's part of the game and Ellen I know you'll have been the exact same and as I sent her back that's not not Matt Beard coming

out and saying that, it's not going to make me any less physical. That's just, I don't understand those comments because that's the entire league. Would it send you the other way? No, I'm not that, I wasn't that kind of, I almost said I'm not that, I'm a pastime. I wasn't that kind of player. But don't you think, perhaps on some level, if you knew that it could get into an opponent's head? Honestly, I was never that kind of player. I wouldn't have even read or known those comments when I was still playing.

Other people, 100%. If you know that... I would have honestly been pretty embarrassed if my manager had come out and said that about... I would have been like, why? You know, I'm fine. I had a niggle from this, that, it wasn't because someone was too physical or, you know, I wasn't mad about the tackle. Tackles, physicality is a part of football. And I think there's so much, exactly what Ellen's saying, there's so much more to strength and conditioning and reasoning to why someone might pick up a niggle, I don't think is, unless it's a very, very harsh tackle, but how many, if there was we would have been talking about it. We would

have been talking about challenges being made in the league or you know red cards would have been shown, more yellows, things like that conversation. So I think there's always going to be that conversation of can a ref manage the game and that will always happen from clubs behind the scenes but I think it's been okay, it's been fair. What did you do when people used to target you? Kick them a bit harder. She was that kind of player.

No, do you know what? It's part and parcel. The physicality, you know, I come up against Jen, Millie Bright, Steph Horton, you go straight through the back of you, be running along, your legs will be taken out, and it's just part and parcel. And I got absolutely destroyed by a goalkeeper, I won't name them, I broke my collarbone, I had to relearn how to fall, how to fall well, and then be able to get back up running. It, I know it sounds stupid, but that's those one percenters.

Stunt woman. Pretty much, but I think it's being a step ahead. So I was in with a gym ball being knocked over and being like, right, how can I get up quicker with a rugby pad? Knocks out the physical tolerance of how like a centre half's going to come up and head a ball. Right, how can I hold my body better? How can I be able to have more stability?

How can I fall better? I feel like it's just those one percenters and I know it sounds body better, how can I be able to have more stability? How can I fall better? I feel like it's just those one percenters and I know it sounds stupid, but that can win you a game or that can get you a chance, that could get you assists. And I just, I just feel like it's just thinking outside the box to be a better player for your team. Are they the sorts of things that as you get older you wished you were done when you were in your say early 20s or late teens? Yeah, potentially. I think for me it was just a few injuries caused that and I was just getting absolutely nailed every week so I had to learn, I had to learn to just, you

just deal with it. And I love the physicality of football. I absolutely love it. I think you've got to give as good as you get sometimes. Obviously in a fair way, I'm not saying be stupid, but I think you've got to be clever and smarter because it is a compliment. If these players are tackling you, be smarter. Knock it and run past them. Give them a shoulder barge.

I just think you just got to be smarter and just be like, yeah, you can do that all you want, but I'm going to take it around you and score four goals against you type of attitude at the same time. Reformer Pilates is one thing I wish I'd done when I was putting my hips on my back. I've never felt better. Is this still going? You haven't given up on this. I will never give up on my reformer that it might be the most expensive thing. I've started boxing, but that sums up me.

How many slips you've gone the other way from you? Maybe we needed a bit of boxing. You're like Super Zem and Ellen's just going out beating up the punch bag. Were you doing that during while you were playing, Ellen, or is this a new thing? Boxing. Yeah. I don't remember you being a bruiser. No, I did a bit of boxing for my cardio, but honestly Pilates Reformer is unbelievable.

It's hard. It's a tough session, but it's great for flexibility, strength, core. It's unbelievable. Have you ever done the jumping one, Nelan? The jumping one? Yeah, where your feet's on the normal bar, but then it flips up to that board. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've absolutely lost it. We could turn this into a reformer Pilates program. I don't know how you're going to get the conversation back. Yeah, I know, absolutely no chance.

You're best about them. That might have to be where we leave it then. Thank you so much, Jen. Thank you so much, Ellen. Thanks so much to M. Sanders for joining us as well. Up next on the Football Daily, Aaron Paul and Jobe Mekanuff will be here with Phil Brown for 72 plus after a busy Easter weekend in the EFL. Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast with exclusive access to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards.

And I'm sports journalist Matt Magindy. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. He's really good. He's going to win it. Don't worry about that. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the Inside Track wherever you get your podcasts.