Football Daily - Women's Football Weekly: England go head-2-head with Spain at Wembley

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Ellen White, Jen Beattie and Ben Haines reflect on England’s disappointing draw against Portugal in the Nations League and how things can be improved against Spain at Wembley. Jen also gives her thoughts on where Scotland are given the changes to the squad and management. Ben has caught up with Ella Toone and Keira Walsh on how it feels preparing to face Spain for the first time since that World Cup final. You’ll also hear from Spain and Arsenal defender Laia Codina - who talks about the difficult period in Spanish women’s football since the World Cup final. Former national football federation boss Luis Rubiales was last week convicted of sexual assault after he kissed Spain’s Jenni Hermoso without her consent during the medal ceremony.00:20 Intro 02:00 What did Ellen make of England Portugal? 07:10 Europe catching up? 10:30 Where are Scotland at? 17:20 Keira Walsh & Ella Toone 25:00 Laia Codina with Emma Sanders5 Live/Sports Extra Commentaries This Week: Wed 26 Feb 2000 England v Spain in UEFA Women’s Nations League Fri 28 Feb 2000 Aston Villa v Cardiff in FA Cup Sat 1 Mar 1215 Crystal Palace v Millwall in FA Cup Sat 1 Mar 1215 Preston v Burnley in FA Cup on BBC Sport website Sat 1 Mar 1500 Bournemouth v Wolves in FA Cup Sat 1 Mar 1745 Man City v Plymouth in FA Cup Sun 2 Mar 1345 Newcastle v Brighton in FA Cup Mon 3 Mar 1930 Nottingham Forest v Ipswich in FA Cup

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily, the Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes, Ellen White and Jen Beattie. International break time on the Women's Football Weekly as the Nations League continues and it's pretty much disappointing results all round for the home nations. Lots to come on the pod. Hello Ellen White, hello Jen Beattie, how are you both? Good Ben, how are you?

Very good. All good Ben, thank you. Look at incredibly sprightly both of you at different times during the day. We'll chat where England seem to be struggling and hear from Serena Vigman in a bit, plus my interview with Keira Walsh and Ella Toon but also here from La Codina on the difficult period that the Spanish players have had to deal with since the World Cup final and Luis Rubiales kissing Jenny Hemoso without her consent. But let's start with the Nations League. So not good for all home nations. England draw with Portugal, Wales lost against Italy, Scotland lost to Austria, Poland beat Northern Ireland. We'll begin with England.

Ellen, do you want to just give us your take on it from the top? What did you make of the performance? How long we got then? We'll try and keep it to less than an hour. Okay cool. You're soon. On the next episode. Yeah, first half, I was quite excited. Obviously we saw Grace Clinton starting, Jess Park starting, so that was good to see some different personnel in, obviously Lauren James as well. I thought intensity wise, build up play connections, you know Lucy Brom's keeping that width on that right hand side, which

was forcing Jess Parth in field to help Russo up the top. So it was some really nice interplay with also Ella Toon, obviously a lovely cross and a lovely finish from Russo. So I was like, oh, okay, this looks really good, looks exciting. Portugal couldn't quite get a foothold in the game. They started to put a few tackles in, kind of midway through that first half. And then I thought second half we would maybe turn it up again. And I was kind of really excited for that, but it was just crazy.

Amazing from Neto, the manager, making three substitutions on 60 minutes, changing formation back to that diamond in midfield. And well, yeah, they completely the intensity You could hear the noise in the in the crowd as well, and they just seemed to completely dominate England Kika got a beautiful goal And I just thought that we couldn't quite deal with the intensity that they were playing at and I felt like we weren't Comfortable being uncomfortable, which is what we're gonna face when we come against Spain So it was quite frustrating that second half, we didn't create a lot of chances, but you've got to give credit to Portugal. They've been unbeaten in 2024. So they're really going

places at the moment and they've got a really exciting squad as well. That's a really, really interesting point around the idea of discomfort, periods of discomfort in the game. We speak to Ella Toon and Keira Walsh about that a little bit later on on the pod but Jen can you just break that down what that is the idea of being happily uncomfortable for periods of a game? You look at it, well especially leading into Spain and you know playing against a team that England know will dominate the ball I think that's exactly what people say when you're uncomfortable.

It's being comfortable not having the ball is how I'd best describe it. Sitting in your press block, or wherever you're high up the pitch, middle block, or even a low block, it's knowing that when you get the ball back you do important things with it. And they might not come thick and fast, or they might be few and far between but it's being consistent and disciplined I think is probably the biggest thing being mentally switched on for those periods when you don't have the ball but you're tight you're close knit you're communicating 24-7 to make sure your lines are compact and not letting almost letting the other team have the ball but don't let them penetrate you.

So that when it gets closer to the box you're tight, you're putting in the tackles but let the centre backs have it in certain areas of the field. Stay tight, stay compact, that's that discipline, that's that mentally switched on whereas centre backs and sixes always feel are so key in those moments because they're in the centre of the pitch. Don't let the ball get closer to the box, don't let it become centrally penetrated, let the centre-backs have the ball. They're the moments where I think as a centre-back when I've played in those games where you're playing against teams because momentum's

always going to shift of who's going to dominate the ball at what periods in a game, especially at top end of elite sport against international football as well. So it's about being disciplined, mentally switched on when you don't have the ball and being comfortable within that. And I think we saw England when Portugal scored their goal. If you watch the goal, maybe kind of 20, 30 seconds before they score it,

Portugal moving it from back to front, left to right, and kind of Ella runs out of her position, opens up a big space. So then Borges passes it straight across to the other centre half, they go back out to the left. Jess Park then jumps out of position, which then she, the player can fire it straight into Kepita, which then she goes round the corner to Nazaré and she's kind of gone off the shoulder of Grace Clinton and it's just those moments you have to be so switched on. And obviously it's the 75th minute, you know, the intensity of the game is of international football and it's a beautiful finish.

But I totally agree what Jen's saying, you have to be switched on and being okay with being uncomfortable, but you just can't jump out of position, you can't jump out at certain times because you're leaving huge spaces for your teammates to have to kind of almost defend, you're almost defending one and a half players really, when you're playing against someone like Portugal and Spain. So no disrespect to Portugal, but Spain's gonna be another level.

They're gonna have faster, more intensity, they're gonna be playing the ball, they're gonna have to have a position for a lot longer. So you've got to be OK with not having the ball but it was just switching off for just a few seconds and what can happen? A goal in international football. What's so big in those moments as well is a formation change. You know, come 60 minutes you can be comfortable with how the initial phases of the game has gone and be set in your press and be set in the

build up and know where the space is and where the gaps are. All of a sudden, formation changed, Portugal resort back to that diamond in the midfield which they are so renowned for and so comfortable in and you just saw their game accelerate to next level. So it's those moments as well where if a team switch, which England going into the Euros, it's going to happen. It might happen again in Spain on Wednesday and it's going to happen. It might happen against Spain on Wednesday. And it's those moments as well where a team changes something you were comfortable for, so what do you do now? You have to be resilient in those moments and not panic, not resort to exactly what

Ellen's saying, jumping out of position, flying into tacos and the game becoming messy and more open. It's about staying tight within those moments and problem solving ultimately. We talk about it a lot in football, but that is a problem solving moment that you have to be comfortable doing. Jen, do you think that we've seen a lot of teams

around Europe start to raise their level or do you think that people are perhaps less afraid of sides like the Lionesses now? I don't think it's about being less afraid. I think it's raising level and the narrative around countries and domestic leagues have been professional for a number of years now. And England might have been further ahead

a few seasons back, but I think ultimately it comes down to there's no easy game at international level anymore whatsoever. And I think when you see people come out and say, we need to be more ruthless I think that is because that is nothing's easy and nothing's given to you on any stage in football but when you I think it was Millie Bright that used the word ruthless and that kind of stood out to me because of the way Chelsea have been all season they have been the team that has been absolutely ruthless and even when they've struggled you watch them and for 90 minutes they're at teams. And I think for Millie Bright as

a centre back, having that pairing back with Leigh Williamson that was so strong over the Euros and when she's saying the word ruthless, that to me comes from what she's going through at Chelsea this season. And we've seen it in seasons before, don't get me wrong, but I think that's what was maybe missing with the England team in the first 45 minutes is... By no means does anyone think it's going to be easy, but ruthless is the one word you can say when you don't give a team a second to breathe. You're just at them for 90 minutes. Whether you go 1-0 up at any point in the game, you're going for the second. I think that's what Vigman's meaning by, doesn't matter if you're 4, 5, 6 up already, you're going for the next

one. That's a 90-minute mentality. It's going to be another step up now facing Spain. In particular, I think the team kind of looking at what happened in that second half with the different formation, the intensity, and staying kind of structurally okay and being quite comfortable, what I said before, with being uncomfortable, not having possession. But then when we do have possession, being clinical with it and making good actions and moving up the pitch and progressing and keeping the ball and creating chances, obviously it's easier said than done, but we've got enough talent,

we've got enough ability in this team to go against Spain. And obviously it's going to be at Wembley, a huge occasion, so I think there is a lot of learnings. And I'm interested to see if she changes or tweaks anything. Obviously good to hopefully know Lucy Bronswell will play on Wednesday as well, because she was a huge loss in that second half. She kept that width. We just don't have anyone that really kind of plays the way that she does.

Yeah, particularly when you consider the assist for the first goal, you can see how that width can really drag a team into the centre of the pitching and create space across the board. Let's go on to talk a bit about Scotland. So, defeat for Scotland, they lost to Austria 1-0. Jen, where are Scotland currently at? It must be difficult to place them at the moment given the amount of change over the last few months.

It is, and I think going back to not qualifying for this Euros and how disappointing that would be I can't actually even imagine what the vibe of the camp was. It was a very young squad announced by an interim manager and in those phases where it's Nations League, these games matter and they're important. And a 1-0 loss to Austria is, again, a team that Scotland would have been looking at to pick up points against. And that's not a disrespect, but if you're asking me of where Scotland are at, a 1-0 loss to Austria is really, really disappointing. So I think it should be, you know, I can only imagine asking me of where Scotland are at a one-nil loss is really really disappointing so I think it should be you know I can only

imagine the amount of meetings that are happening this week within camp to kind of be like right what are our goals where are we at where do we want to be as a national team because they're not qualifying for for tournaments on the bounces is a scary place to be in and I think it's it needs a huge sort of rebound revamp of of targets and goals of what they want to achieve because I keep saying it time and time again that the quality in that national team deserve to be on an international level and it's frustrating to see them not but when you're losing to Austria the narrative becomes more and more negative.

It doesn't stay at that, you know, we should be at the Euros if you're losing to Austria. It's not a good place to be in. Jen, do you think it is kind of like needing like a rebuild over the next kind of six months, year, until obviously you find the manager that obviously Scotland wants to move forward? Obviously, you know, we've spoken about, you know,

Pedro wanting to help improve those young players and, you know, the youth system as well. Obviously that's potentially not happening, but that's a disappointment obviously now that that's maybe at the back. So it seems frustrating from a Scotland fan or from the players themselves. Do they need six months a year to be like, now we're in a great position to now qualify for the next tournament? Yeah and I think that's where I kind of wish Pedro, I mean Pedro had a good chunk of time, let's be honest, he did have that chunk of time but that's what he was trying to

do was rebuild and bring up youth and develop the domestic leagues, develop domestic players, give them that international experience to be able to go on to the next phase of consistent international tournament football. But ultimately he didn't get that and I know for how disappointed he was to leave that job but I agree, yeah. And I think that's ultimately what we're seeing this camp. There's 10 new young faces in the whole squad and to see the likes of Leah Eddy, Jenna Clark and Amy Muir get their shots for the national team, I think that's what kind of has to happen. I think it's looking at what's next. You have to trust in trust in youth players trust the ability I remember Leah Eddy coming into a national team number of years ago when

I was still involved and her technical ability I was out right okay honestly one of the best technical abilities I've seen in a young player coming through and I think it's players like her like can you push to the next level and they need the opportunity so it was it was great to see her get opportunity against Austria about 100% I think it's now is the time to invest even more in the youth setups and the national team to allow that sort of next progression of what next. Because I think that conversation is already happening behind the scenes, but now they

need international experience. You need to give players that time actually on the field to experience it because watching that game, you know, balls are being sloppily passed in the back line giving Austria more opportunities than you need to and you can't do that at international level. You might be able to do that in domestic league and get away with it but playing internationally you can't do it. It's a different game, it's a different step up in order for players to learn that, they need to experience. So it's what's next and for me it's bringing up youth into that conversation. Gem, for the seniors, will it feel a bit like purgatory at the moment, turning up to these

camps not necessarily knowing that you're going to progress towards a style or a goal at this given time? Obviously on the horizon people will know that major tournament qualification is front and centre, but when you turn up to an international camp, regardless of the fact that it's an honour to play for your country, do you think the senior players will be coming in thinking I wonder where we go here? Yeah, but I think that's where the conversations are probably most important, is within the senior players.

You know, you have to be having the conversation with the associations and people buying the scenes on the board and who are investing in the team to be like where are we going with this what are we doing and those conversations I trust massively Rachel Corsi has been doing that second to none for a number of years now having the really really difficult conversations and she's been injured for a number of months now so I know she's a huge loss to the team she captains it she's the voice of absolutely everything such an amazing leader at the back for that team

but 100% I think that's where it becomes more important, you need you need your leaders to step up and be having the conversations and be able to guide the young ones as well of okay we haven't had qualification for a major tournament but this is where we're going and this is where we we know we want to be and that's the focus and this is what we have to do to get there. You've still got players in that squad that have had international tournaments. Claire Emsley, Caroline Weir, Lisa Evans, these players that have been at major tournaments, they know how it feels like, they know what it takes to get there.

They need to sort of rebrand the whole philosophy of what they're doing to kind of pass on that next phase to the young ones to be like, this is what we need to do to get there, let's go and do it. The game's changed, the game's harder, this is what we need to all step up to make it. Now looking back and even at the time, you are so thankful that they're using their voice for change in a positive way and they are. They're really difficult conversations to have, it's not nice, you're not sitting there, you know, having really lovely conversations. You're pushing, you're doing everything you can. You're banging the door to be like, at the moment this is not what we want, this is where we want to go, but we need you on board. We want your help, but it's

not there at the moment. And it sounds like, you know, they've got some amazing leaders with a lot of experience in that team. And it would be a real shame and a real disappointment to not see them in another tournament. Like, you know, being on that international stage, on that world stage, having Scotland there, it would be incredible. So it's a collective for the federation, for the association of Scotland, everyone to come together and the players to all be singing off the same hymn sheet. The 72 Plus on the Football Daily. I'm Aaron Paul.

And I'm Jobe Makhno. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from five live sports. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. We're printing well above our weight already, we're a part-time team and a full-time league. Hopefully we can stay in the league and the A.S.D.A. We're in a great position at the moment and long may that continue. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sound.

On the Football Daily. The Women's Football Weekly. With Ben Haynes, Ellen White and Jen Beattie. On the England front, huge game on Wednesday night. A visit from the world champion Spain at Wembley, the first time the two sides play since that World Cup final. And I caught up with Ella Toon and Keira Walsh to discuss whether that will play on the mind heading into this one.

You're both in brilliant form recently. So Tuni, let's start with you first. What do you put that down to? I think I use my injury as a bit of a period where I could make sure that I was back physically better, but more importantly mentally in a better head space. I think I've come back and I'm playing with a lot less pressure on my shoulders that I was putting on myself and you know just enjoying football and I know that when I'm enjoying my football that's when I put on my best performances and yeah it's definitely down to mindset and making sure that I'm in a good headspace when I step out onto the pitch.

Yeah I think very similar to tuning yeah if I'm enjoying it and having fun then yeah again that's probably when I play my best and I think that I'm just really happy to be back in England and at Chelsea so I think for me it's kind of just going with the flow of everything and just making sure that I keep enjoying it and I'm at a new club where everyone's really really nice so I think I've not really got anything to complain about. I have that she's playing against us again. How are you finding being back? Are you enjoying it? Yeah, it's really good to be fair, I think. I mean, I've only been here two weeks, so I think there's obviously still like, need to build a lot of relationships on the pitch because I've not played with a lot of those players before. But yeah, I can't speak highly

enough of everyone at Chelsea. I think they've been really lovely and really, really tried to help me settle in. And yeah, I think the girls have been great and the staff so yeah just hoping we can win a few trophies together. I don't. Has Leah forgiven you? To be honest with you I wasn't excited about telling her. I think she was one of the last people I told but no listen I think we had a conversation and she just said that she's happy that I'm gonna be happy and I'm back in England and obviously we live a little bit closer now so yeah I can see her a lot more. Saying that she's been really busy these last two weeks I've been here I've not seen her on so.

She hasn't even helped me move in. She's not helping me move in, she's not come and seen me but yeah she is. We'll just have to wait for her to see this podcast because I've already been giving her a bit about it so yeah let's see what she says. Just before we finish up, given that we are playing the world champions I wondered if we looked across at them and you could Nick one of their players to come across and play with the Lionesses, is there anyone that you admire from Spain's team that you think would be brilliant to play with them in an England shirt and we'll try and get

one each of you so you can't pick the same person. Quite a few to be fair. I mean we've got a great squad, we don't need to add any additions, however my favourite player is Bon Matty but that means she'd be playing number 10 and I wouldn't be playing. So basically Tunie's bringing in someone to replace her. Yeah I think what Tunie said, we trust in our squad, but they've got some world-class players. I think maybe Mario and Alexia. I think Alexia's just got that aura about her, hasn't she? I think on and off the pitch. And yeah, I think obviously being in the change room with a lot of them, Alexia's such a good person as well. But then again to anyone we're playing without.

Well best of luck and I hope that the sun comes out for you at least a little bit over the next few days. Thank you. Thank you we hope so too. Yeah I mean they were sat in the hourglass so I don't feel too bad for them considering that at the time of recording it was pouring in London, very grey and very cold. But they'll have a big task on their hands against Spain. And at the same time a real opportunity, Jen, because you do want to go out there and sort of benchmark yourself, don't you? Yeah, I think we talk about testing yourself against you know top teams across the world and you know seeing them play USA, Germany, I think Spain's the

kind of next massive big test and for it to be the first time they've played against each other in over 18 months you know the last one was the World Cup final makes it an even bigger spectacle I think. I think that this one there's no I generally think there's no such thing as a friendly anymore at whatever level you're playing and for it to be at Wembley, you know, a huge amount of number of fans are going to be in there and watching a team that they want to go on and be successful at the Euros basically and I think a lot of people are now judging the Lionesses and what they see and what we expect to see at the Euros. So

now I think it, you know, Alan's right, there is still time but you know you're looking at the last six month lead-in and exactly the kind of style and formation and personnel that, of course, Lauren Hemp is missing, Alex Greenwood, still big names, are not going to be in that team or that squad but regardless I think England fans still expect the expectation is just so much higher on this team now and I think that's the massive difference. But again huge game, first time they've played them in a long time, a huge test up against the best in the world, the World Cup holders and a game that you have to go in and test yourself leading up to the Euros to perform at the best.

I think that's a really interesting point. We'll come on to how things have changed in terms of the landscape for Spain in a second, but it's definitely felt, Adam, like regardless of what competition England are playing in, whether it be Nations League, a friendly, a World Cup qualifier, a Euros qualifier, you're reading into almost everything because it always feels like a countdown until the next major tournament. It always feels like whatever decisions that Serena Vigman makes, you're looking and thinking, okay, how is that going to affect her first starting eleven in the first game at the next major tournament?

Yeah, definitely. And I think that's what happens, you know, where we won the Euros in 2022, World Cup final in 2023, it comes a lot of pressure with that, an expectation of the team that we should be dominating every team, we should be winning by loads of goals. It doesn't work like that. Teams improve, international football is hard. Everyone wants to beat everyone. And it feels like at times when you are's hard. Everyone wants to beat everyone. And it feels like at times when you are an Englander, everyone wants to be England.

Because when you're kind of up there and you've won, people are chasing you then. Which is an exciting prospect. It's a privilege to have that pressure. But it's really challenging at the same time. And at the moment, it's difficult because Serena Vigman hasn't been able to start what I would say would be her starting 11 that she would most want with the injuries so it's been difficult

and obviously slightly changed in formation, different personnel, but that's what happened, you know, football you have to adapt, you have to change your style, a different personnel. You have to... And I think Serena has been very good at that, to be able to adapt. But yeah, it's going to be a really challenging one on Wednesday, Wednesday night against Spain, because they've got that grip, that mentality, that determination, the want to win. They came back from two goals down against Belgium and scored two in 90 minutes. It's phenomenal.

That mentality is unbelievable. So it's going to be really, really interesting. And England fans will be out there. They want to see a good England performance and they want to see goals, hopefully for England, not for Spain. So, yeah, three goals for Spain in the last 19 minutes to get past Belgium in their last game. It's been a really difficult period

both on and off the pitch and the most prominent issue within that time caused by former National Football Federation boss Luis Rubiales kissing Spain player Jenny Hermoso without her consent as no doubt lots of people will have seen after the the World Cup final and Rubiales was found guilty of sexual assault last week in a case in which Arsenal defender Laia Codina testified in support of her mozo. BBC's Emma Sanders caught up with Laia on the impact of what's happened to the team. I mean, the week that I had to go to Madrid, that I was a witness, that was a difficult win.

A difficult week was tough for me, obviously. Personal thing that in Arsenal, all my teammates, they could see that was like a lot of emotions up and down. Yeah, feeling everything again. But that week was done and now I feel good. I feel that I did what I had to do in that moment, always supporting Jenny and always supporting my teammates and the women. So yeah, I felt that I did what I had to do in that moment and this is something that makes me proud. So I'm happy and I don't feel that it affects right now in the team. We don't speak about that because it's something that we

cannot control, so why to speak about that? What do you want to see come from it? Are you hopeful as players that there will be positive change going forward for Spanish football off the back of it? I just hope that everything now goes well. We speak about football finally. We speak about this team that has been the World Cup winners, Nations League winners, and hopefully that we can do a good job in the Euros and also in this Nations League. I just want to speak about, and we also want to speak about football, is why we are here and it's our job, nothing else. I think that is something that is going to be better for us and for everyone, for the's football, and I hope that for Spain in general.

Also for the society, they have to see us as football players, as women's football players, and they have to feel that they are proud about us, just this. Yeah, and just finally on that, you say there at the end that you want people to look at you as female footballers and be proud. I think one of the positives maybe is that all of you being brave and coming and speaking out, a lot of people have been very positive about that. The Lionesses were praising you all. Has that been nice to hear?

Yeah, 100%. I saw some words from Lucy, from Lucy Brons. I saw some words from Serena. Yeah, I've heard some of them and actually it's really nice to be honest. Like, I really want to thank them because feeling that, yeah, that's super from them, from a big national team like them. And I can see like England in general how they work for the women's football. I think that is something that we have to look for and it's nice to receive that that words and I'm really grateful for that. Em Sanders with Laia Codina there and Jen I think the point Em made about bravery goes onto a whole

another level when you hear the way that Laia is able to get across the messaging and the strength and bravery that I think everyone has showed involved in the case and you know ability also to be able to articulate it in English in an interview and not just be so powerful with the guilty verdict and the way that the national teams come together in that sense but also the respect she had for the lionesses that spoke out about it and supported her and to be so aware. I think she feels like England is home now, so for her to feel supported playing at Arsenal, and I know she flew all the way to Madrid to participate in the trial and came back and was back in the squad for the Subway Cup League game for Arsenal. So to go through all of

that, to be able to articulate it in English in an interview and to then be able to focus playing international football, again leading up to the Euros, I think everyone is just in so much support for everyone that's gone through it together. I think the narrative now that they're spot on, they just want to focus on football. I think what they've done is beyond powerful. I think the guilty verdict spoke they're spot on, they just want to focus on football. I think what they've done is beyond powerful. I think the guilty verdict spoke for itself and he was proven guilty in the court. So I think they all just want to move forward and focus on the football, having known that they've created a safer space for women than Spanish football, which speaks volumes for

the whole world of football. Ellen, as someone who's had that moment at the pinnacle of the sport, to have that moment where you get across the line in a major tournament and you're able to enjoy every single moment of it, it must be really tough almost for you to look on and see people that have done the thing that most people will dream about in their lifetime and to know that that will never really be a pure moment that they're able to look back on with fondness. I mean, Jenny Hemoso has spoken about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Jenny Hemoso has spoken and said that the most happiest time of her life has

kind of been stripped of the players lives, you know, been taken away from them for something that horrendously happened and they weren't able to celebrate in the way that they should have been able to. That achievement is phenomenal. What they achieved winning the World Cup. Not a lot of people can say that and the bravery to speak out and come together to show that female empowerment, to be incredible female ambassadors is truly remarkable. So yeah, it's horrible you can never get that moment back, but hopefully there's some really incredible moments

moving forward for them as a team and personally as well. And hopefully, you know, they can enjoy some wonderful moments together as a team. But yeah, you know, the bravery that each and every one of them in particular receive most so coming out and speaking and getting that guilty verdict is so, so powerful. We definitely stand with those players moving forward and hopefully there's a huge, huge shift and a huge change.

And just incredible to think that that squad is able to channel something that was such a difficult period for them and such a difficult reality to face over the course of the last couple of years and turn it into something that could become a positive for them just in terms of their strength of character, their courage and their ability to unify as a group and become an even stronger unit. And we've seen them speak about the way that it's impacted them on the pitch. We've seen them speak about the way that they're able to now move forward and utilise almost that strength that they've got to find ways in games that maybe they didn't necessarily have before.

I wonder when they come to face England at Wembley whether there is almost an extra buzz for them to have the challenge of playing at what is for England the home of football, the opportunity to go out the kind of the national home for that Lionesses side and go and say do you know what we're going to come on and put a performance here and see if we can overcome you in your back garden almost. It's almost like a, when you put it like that Ben, it's almost like a full circle moment. You know, the last time they played England was when it happened, World Cup final, and then they're back now at Wembley having this with a guilty verdict.

And I feel like I hope they have a sense of freedom now going into that game, that they can just go in, it's against England. And I know Jenny Hermosa, it ruined what should have been one of the best days of her life. And I hope that by playing England, it's a kind of full circle moment to kind of, okay, the guilty verdict was what it was. And now it's a safer place for women in Spanish football. And they can go into that game and

now really focus on a huge test against England at Wembley. I hope that every single one of them feels the support from the community of football at that game and at Wembley and now the focus is on football going into the Euros. We've seen Serena Vigman say she won't be thinking back to the World Cup final, it'll play no part and I wonder, Ellen, how much that's accurate and how much those things you just can't control. You think about that game, you think about the way that it played a part in the tapestry of your group of players and their past over the course of the last couple of years as

well. There'll be just a tiny bit, won't there, in the back of the minds of the England players? Yeah, I think so. You know, I've lost games and semi-finals and I still think about them quite a lot. So yeah, no, it's, you know, Spain are one of England's biggest rivals now, up there with Germany, USA. And I think the Lionesses have got so much respect for Spain, for what they've done, the change, for speaking out, standing together with them,

standing shoulder to shoulder. So I think there'll be a huge amount of respect, but I think what those Spain players have been through, that togetherness, that mentality, they just seem so strong and so powerful. So it's gonna be really, really challenging, but yeah, I can imagine that, you know, it will be in the back of their minds, that previous performance, obviously losing the World Cup final,

but this is, you know, this is a good few years on now, and it's a different England team, and I think it's just gonna be a really special occasion for both Spain and England in front of an amazing crowd and hopefully it will be an amazing game to watch for everyone. Full commentary of England against Spain on 5Live, that's an 8 o'clock kick-off. And a reminder, the WSL is back this weekend, no sooner have we got stuck into the internationals but we're straight back to the WSL, All matches being played on Sunday and there's full commentary of Arsenal West Ham over on five Sports Extra

on Sunday from 5.15pm. That's all from us. Thanks, Ellen. Thanks, Jen. On the next episode of the Football Daily is the debrief with Steve Crossman looking back on Tuesday night's Premier League action.