Football Daily - Women’s Football Weekly: Nations League reaction and Kirby announces England retirement

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Ellen White and Ben Haines are joined by former England goalkeeper Karen Bardsley and react to the news that Fran Kirby has announced her retirement from international football with immediate effect, just days after goalkeeper Mary Earps also retired from international football before England attempt to defend their Euros title. Ellen shares her memories of playing with Fran and Karen reflects on her impact both on and off the pitch.The team also react to the Lionesses failing to reach the semi-finals of the Women's Nations League with a 2-1 defeat by group winners Spain, a game in which substitute Claudia Pina showed her class.We also look ahead to Thursday 5th June when Sarina Wiegman will name her final 23-player squad for the tournament this summer. Who are her biggest headaches and will she take a gamble on Lauren James?TIMECODES: 1:10 - Fran Kirby announces her international retirement with immediate effect. 3:20 - Ellen White and Karen Bardsley react to Kirby calling time on her international career. 16:30 - Reaction to the Lionesses 2-1 defeat to Spain in the Women’s Nations League. 23:35 - The competition to start at number 9 between Alessia Russo and Aggie Beever-Jones. 25:35 - Post-match reaction from Alessia Russo. 29:25 - Should Sarina Wiegman take Michelle Agyemang to the Euros alongside Russo and Beever-Jones? 31:50 - Post-match reaction from Leah Williamson 34:10 - Look ahead to the England squad announcement for the Euros. 39:50 - Ellen and Karen’s squad announcement stories.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily, the Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes and Ellen White. Welcome to the Women's Football Weekly episode 38 and the last one of the domestic season before we all turn our eyes and our attention to the Euros. But before anyone panics don't worry, we are going to be regularly on the Football Daily Feed throughout Euro 2025 from Switzerland and beyond. And with me this week as she is every single week, England's record goalscorer Ellen White and tactical sub special guest co-host, making her Women's Football Weekly debut, welcome former England number one Karen Bardsley. How are you KV? making our Women's Football Weekly debut, welcome former England number one Karen Bardsley.

How are you KV? Super thanks, it's nice to be here. How are you guys? Really good, it's wonderful to have you on with us. And we should sort of tell everyone as we begin this pod, we're expecting to ease you in nice and gently and get stuck into what's been a really interesting game between England and Spain. But just as we were about to start recording, we've had huge news of another lioness announcing their international retirement. Fran Kirby, who has 77 caps for the lionesses and has been really a key figure for England over the course of probably 10 years. She's announced this evening, she's calling it time on her international career.

She's posted on social media. We've also got some quotes from an interview that she's done with Sammy Mockbell, which I'll share very shortly. But just to give you the gist of her post on social media, she wrote, After being in the England team since I was 21, it's time to close that chapter of my life. I didn't ever want this day to come but I can't

tell you how proud I am that it happened. It's been the biggest honour to represent my country, one that I'd only ever dreamt of as a young girl. My journey's been full of ups and downs, setbacks and achievements, and enough has been said and written about those. Regardless of whatever was thrown at me, I want you all to know that every time I put on the England badge I gave it 100%. Starting in every game and winning the Euros in 2022 was a dream come true. To be a part of change in women's football was one of the best experiences I could have ever imagined. Thank you to all of you for embracing me as a young girl from Reading who had a dream. I hope you all know that wearing that badge was the greatest honour and to every young girl that suffers setbacks, just remember, you can.

You can. Forever a Lioness, Fran. And then she also spoke to Sammy Mockbell as well, and just a couple of quotes from that, she mentioned the fact that the plan was to retire after the Euros, but after speaking to Serena, it was clear I wasn't going to make the squad. It was like a dagger to my heart, but also a weight off my shoulders at the same time. And it was emotional for both of us, but we both respected what each person was saying. When I woke up in the morning after telling Serena, I didn't feel any regret. And that's when I knew I'd made the right decision.

And then a lot to unpack there. And I mean, the statement in itself is full of really quite emotionally powerful language and I mean it tells you a lot about Fran's story and her journey within football but I think also hearing those quotes about the fact that she's had a direct and very honest conversation with Serena Vigman gives us a more full picture of the situation. Yeah definitely and I think you know credit to her you know she's made that decision she's had the conversations and you know when it's

time ultimately when to retire and I've got some incredible memories with Fran with England she was the best one of the best number tens I've ever played with as a nine it was a dream I would love to know how many assists she had for me because you know I owe her a lot for that but yeah I think you know what she achieved with England, club football, she's had lots of ups and downs but she can you know hold her head really high and be so proud of what she has achieved But it is sad because we've lost two lionesses in what the past kind of week or so and you know huge characters. Obviously Mary obviously made her decision and she's got her reasons of retiring and Fran's got the same as well

and it's just so disappointing not to have these two individuals and these two lionesses you know potentially going to the Euros in the summer. So, yes, it's really sad. But you know, you've got you've got a obviously it's their decision ultimately and they're doing what's right for them. What was the first reaction you had, Ellen? Like when you hear that news, what was the first overriding emotion that comes to you? Is it shock? Is it sadness? Is it happiness for Fran that she's able to do at the right time? Probably all those three that you just said.

Sad, obviously, to see another Lioness retire. Really kind of brings back a lot of happy memories that I had in an England shirt with Fran on the pitch. Obviously winning the Euros together. I remember a young with a bob hair, a long fringe and a hair in 2015 in Canada. So I'm sure, you know, KB remember those experiences, those memories. But yeah, I think it's a culmination of all those things. And obviously at the end of the day, it's the person's decision of when to retire and it must feel right for her to feel like now I need to step away and and you know I for me I just thank her for obviously

what she's done for England and football as obviously Mary as well and yeah I've got some really incredible memories. The thing that will jump out a lot of people KB is the the timing right it's's the same with Mary. Everyone's journey at some point will come to an end, but this is again very close to a major international tournament. Slightly different position for Fran because she's been told fairly clearly from Serena that she won't make the squad, but I think that will catch people off guard, right? Well, it certainly caught me off guard. But I think that will catch people off guard, right? Well, it certainly caught me off guard. Both of the retirement announcements for sure were, yeah, a bit of a surprise for me.

But yeah, I think when you end up hearing that you're not going to be in someone's plans for the tournament, it kind of just makes you weigh up a lot of decisions. I think a lot of people, what they don't understand about being in maybe the England environment or club environment is that, of course you want to be playing and sometimes it is difficult to not be in that starting role, play like a main role. And especially when that decision gets made up for you, you kind of go, okay, there's a lot of things I've had to sacrifice over the course of time. And is this something I can keep looking at sacrificing,

you know, the older you get, obviously, the harder it is, get out of bed every day and kind of put your boots on and like put the miles in it. It is, it's tough. I know, you know, it's an absolute honor to play for England and trust me, if I was still working, my hips, everything, I would be able to play. So I think it's sad. I love Fran a bit. She's always been so kind. She's such a lovely person. We'd always chat back

and forth. If I got picked up an injury, she'd be one of the first ones to text a ring. So she was always really supportive, but she's always up for silly shenanigans as well on campus. So she's going to be a big miss and obviously Mary will be as well. But I'll tell you what, she definitely pulled me out of the, I won't swear, but pulled me out of it a few times. I remember in 2015 against Mexico, she ended up going on this like mazy 1v1 through the midfield and scoring a goal that would get us to crucial points we needed to progress to the groups. And she was always one that would come up with the magic at the right time. And to be honest, I think like she probably didn't get the right time. And to be honest, I think like she probably didn't get the accolades that she deserved. So I just hope now that she does go and get her flowers and everyone will

shower the praise because she certainly deserves it. Why do you think that was, Kebi? Was that a case of just bad luck with injuries or timing, just those sliding doors moments. Yeah, exactly. I think so. I think it's probably more to do with just availability and illness, unfortunately. But she certainly made the most impact with what she had. And she always gave everything,

every ounce of what she had to give. I'll never forget, I think it was my first year at City as well, like everyone was talking about this young up and coming talent in the midfield down at Reading. And I think we played them in the FA Cup, one of the earlier rounds and she stood out like a sore thumb. You just thought she's not long for Reading, like she'll be picked up by someone quickly and then before you know it, she's at Chelsea. So yeah, she's definitely had quite a career. up by someone quickly and then before you know it she's at Chelsea. So yeah, she's definitely had quite a career. What will this do now, Ellen, to the dynamic within that Lionesses group?

Because there's now five players that have stepped away since you guys won the Euros. And I mean, I hope I'm not embarrassing you too much here when I say that people will regularly come up to you at camps and tell you how much they miss you in the group and you being a part of the group. And within the space of seven days, I've lost another two key parts of that dynamic one way or the other. What will it do now? Yeah, it's obviously a challenging period for the group when you've got someone like Mary, just over 50 caps for England, a huge leader in that group and then someone like Fran with the experience 77 you said caps, so hugely experienced and I feel like Fran was slightly different in terms of the character. She's a little bit quieter but she will say things when

she needs to. She'd always kind of fight for the group, behind the scenes as well. And she is a leader, obviously, and she does let her football do the talking and she'll talk about her experiences as well. So to have someone like that kind of is a big loss, I think. And, you know, like KB said, she's got that little bit of magic and something a little bit different as well that she can just turn it on just score a ridiculous goal and be like I wish I could do that I've got I can't just turn it on like that. So I think she is going to be another a big miss but I feel like

they have got some amazing characters obviously Serena at the helm to obviously galvanize this group and bring that togetherness but it is a huge miss to have those two characters not in the squad. But I don't want to say it because she's obviously just retired but football does move on and it's hard because they've got Euros to focus on and it's really challenging and I don't want to dismiss what Mary has done and what Fran's done as well because what they've done for football and women's football goalkeeping, that number 10 position is quite remarkable really. But at the same time, this group has to move forward now and be like, right, this is whoever Serena picks on Thursday evening is going to be my

team to take me to the Euros. And obviously Serena's kind of made that decision almost for Fran which is probably a weight lifted for her at the same time. So yeah I think there will be a huge miss but at the same time the group has to move forward now. Yeah just on that I think that's really interesting because we spoke about Mary before and her impact on goalkeeping KB and what she did for young players that maybe before perhaps wouldn't see it as cool as it now is. Equally, I do think Fran had a moment, she had a period of time where she made her position quite cool.

And she sort of became that creative outlet for people and people spoke about her as like this really exciting player in the number 10 and people could definitely get their teeth stuck into the idea of being a creator because of what she was doing. Yeah, I mean the 10 is arguably one of the most sexy positions on the pitch isn't it? That's why we didn't play it. Well, I never made it sexy, let's be honest. Look, you want to be associated with creating with those moments of magic that we so fondly recollect, you know, and I think I certainly remember in 2015, 2017, where she could just, you know, she was that spark in the midfield, where she was competitive, always wanting to fight, always wanting to, like, put her

best foot forward. She had this extra drive about her, and I think people really related to not only the way she was, you know, like her profile on the pitch, she was quite short, you know, in terms of stature, but massive presence in terms of, like, you know, aura. So the way she could just kind of cut and carve through a midfield and put the team on her shoulders, I thought was really impressive. But what I also really liked about her was like the kind of person that she felt she could be in the public domain, as well. You know, she stood up for what she believed in. She was outspoken. You know, she spoke about, you know, the trouble that she had had and things like that. And that became something kind of like galvanizing for her in the group.

But I think also outwardly as well that people could relate to, which I thought was really, you know, really impressive, especially back then. Yeah, absolutely. I one thing that is just jumping at me a tiny little bit here, though, is that when you look at the potential squad options and you look at the players that that Serena is now choosing to put Faith in, does this look to you, Kay B, like she's perhaps stepping away from that generation a little bit? And that group of players that were those original voices or were those people that managed to galvanise people and draw people in,

and now she's maybe looking towards the future a little bit? I think if I can reflect on my time knowing Serena, I think when she first took the job and I was kind of looking into it, I was like, who is this? I want to know what she thinks, what her squad profiles and composition are. I looked at what she'd done with the Netherlands and like she'd cold loads of like 30 year olds and I was like I've got no chance. I just remember you know I was out injured and I just I remember like having a phone call with her and she's

like you know where are you at and I was I'm still injured she's like I'm gonna give you you know six weeks to basically let me know if you're gonna be fit enough or not and I was well, that's quite long. Long story short, yeah, I tried to get back fit and I couldn't. So, you know, I had to give her that phone call and say, yeah, I'm not going to make it. I'm going to have to retire because my legs don't work. So I think like in terms of, you know, what we've seen over the time in terms of moving towards like a younger squad profile, it just happens more naturally, you know, like the intensity that she wants to play at, like no disrespect to anyone over 30 or anything like that.

But like, like Ellen says, the game does catch up with you a little bit and it kind of gets to a point where it moves beyond you. So, you know, yes, the social contributions, you know, like the leadership will be missed. But I think there are some incredible players, incredible people, regardless of age in that lioness group. And I'm sure they're absolutely ready. And, you know, I want to say chomping at the bit, but I'm sure it's champing at the bit to step up and be that presence.

And like even though that story is completely sort of, that's taken me by surprise, that Ellen, I imagine there's no surprise there for you that Serena was that direct to KB. She's so Dutch, isn't she? Yeah. I thought, yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. Well, I just begged her. I was over 30. Like, just please, Serena, take me. I'll do anything. Please. I'll run through a brick wall. Please. I mean, we should speak about the legs that will be required for the Euros because we've got a little glimpse tonight of potentially

what the Lionesses are in for. Straight shoot out between England and Spain this evening for a spot in the Nations League semi-finals. Spain ran out 2-1 winners with a comeback win on the night. England had taken the lead through Alessio Russo with a really lovely finish and that was before Super Sub. Claudio Pinas scored two minutes after coming onto the pitch and then followed that up with a beauty of a strike ten minutes later.

And that now means that Spain will be the team that is one of the top seeds when it comes to qualifying for the 2027 Women's World Cup, and things will be just that little bit more difficult for England. And KB, I mean, it was such a different game from the game that we saw on Friday night where England ran out six- six new winners against Portugal. A totally different performance, a totally different approach. What did we learn tonight? Yeah, again, against Portugal, I think, obviously we started out incredibly fast and intense, just took the game to them and obviously scoring nice and early, put the game to bed, didn't

it? You know, I think we played with a lot of confidence and we could see that, you know, Portugal were crumbling before our eyes, whereas today it's quite the opposite. I think England on the back foot, you know, from the off under the Cosh for the first 15, 20 minutes really look rattled defensively, I think, you know, rushed decisions and clearances and, you know, had to rely on a fantastic save, you know, reflex save from Hannah Hampton to keep England in the game nice and early. And I think,

like, Spain are always going to try and sucker punch you as quickly as possible, try to get the game up in their favor. But yeah, the intensity, I think, was something that, I don't know if it, did it take us by surprise? I'm not really sure because I'll be honest, like, Barcelona does that all the time, don't they? So it's not like they shouldn't have expected it. But yeah, for me, what I thought, I thought Beth Mead did really well, you know, in terms of protecting Lucy Bronze, you know, down that left-hand side for Spain. Obviously, Periuello, incredible legs, you got Caldente, you know, interchanging positions, the two wingers as well.

Midfield rotations pulling out into wide areas and they're just, you know, constantly pulling England apart. And I think it took, you know, an element of good fortune to kind of find their way back into the game, didn't it? You know, with that Neve Charles, Periwello tackle, call it what you like, and a lovely through ball from Kiera Walsh to find Alessi Russo threaded through. And what a finish that was, by the way. But yeah, I think for me, just reflecting on the game, you know, some of the substitutions, you hope that they raise the level and unfortunately I think it didn't.

Do you think, Ellen, we saw a side that was struggling with the tempo of the game or struggling with the intensity of the season? Probably just the accumulation of the amount of games really. But then, you know, those Spanish players have played that amount a lot of games of games really. But then, you know, those Spanish players have played that amount a lot of games as well really. But I think that second half, they just raised it at another level, just their passing tempo,

their intensity to get on the ball, their movement just seemed to just overall England, overhaul England. And it just, yeah, it just seemed like we were maybe a yard or two off, which is, it's a lot when you're facing Spain. You know, KB, we faced them before, haven't we? Like Spain teams where, you know, we faced them in 2017, had 20% possession. We won 2-0, but you have to suffer. You have

to be really uncomfortable. And that's what they did at Wembley, England. They did really well at Wembley and obviously beat Spain, but you it's it's really challenging when you can't get a foothold on the ball you need to get some passes in you need to give everyone like a couple of seconds to get off the pitch you need some outlet and I just felt like we didn't quite have that tonight and I felt like we just didn't create enough chances I don't feel because we couldn't build enough we couldn't get enough passes and move the ball up the pitch and then yeah, just when that intensity goes for Spain it's just so hard to then regain possession and then just have a breath when you're just clearing your lines all the time.

You just cannot, you cannot take a breath and then when you've got someone like Pina coming on, I actually went, when I saw her come on I thought, I don't think I should look away because I just feel like she's just gonna score and then a minute later It's just she must have been so annoyed as well not to start and just use all that frustration and just scored those two goals But she's a real talent. She's a really exciting talent. I don't think this is a disaster from England by any stretch of imagination Yes in terms of the qualifying for 2027 but I think it's it's a lot of for 2027 but I think it's a lot of interesting things for Serena to look at I feel and it gives the team now a bit of chance to have a bit of rest which they need and then they'll

have to just come back together for their game, their send off game into the Euros but I don't think it's a disaster. Yes we want to beat Spain but I feel like you know there's things to work on and improve and you've got a lot of those players got minutes that have been injured for for a number of months, which was good to see whilst. It's not a disaster I do think potentially maybe There is an angle that you could look at KB that England knew what the assignment was tonight. They knew Sorry gone take it away No

I was literally just gonna say I think they knew exactly what they needed to do in terms of qualifying for the top two, for the group to go through for a good, decent seeding for the World Cup qualifiers. Sorry, the groups. And I think they knew that. And I think, you know, the other element of the assignment was, look, George Stanwy got some crucial minutes, Alex Treeman got some crucial minutes. Lauren Hemp, obviously, we were both like, get off the pitch! Just leave the pitch Lauren, just walk off! So in terms of just getting them up to that intensity and that quality, I think that's really positive. But yeah, ultimately, of course, you know, anytime there's silverware on the line, you're going to want to win it, be there, thereabouts. But ultimately, the preparation was always going to be for the European Championship, wasn't it? You know, so seeing those last little bits, you know, making sure that Serena Wiegman was incredibly clear on what it is she wants to do when it does come to that squad selection. You know, and I think she will have learned a little bit around, you know, maybe the combinations of players that were on the pitch together,

what worked, what didn't, what could have been better. But yeah, ultimately for me, you know, you see the likes of Georgia Stanway and Lucy Bronze coming off at the start of the second half and immediately Spain lifted the level and kept their foot on the accelerator, didn't they? What was really fascinating as well going into tonight, having had that performance on Friday night, I think a lot of people were naturally thinking, okay, what will Saruna do in terms of the lineup? What will she change? And the number one thing is Aggy Beaver-Jones. And like, it must be lovely for you, Ellen, to sit here and not have to worry about the conversation of who's going to start up front?

You instead can be one of the people that's looking at and commenting on it. So just tell me what your thoughts were in terms of Alessia Ruto starting up top off the back of Aguibiva Jones scoring a hat trick against Portugal. Oh God, I'm on the other side now aren't I? How mad is that? That's so weird. The Euros, everyone's like don't start up, put Alessia on the pitch. Do not start, Alan White, she is awful. I'm joking. Alessia has worked so hard.

She's had a phenomenal season and I've spoken to her before about the challenge of being England's number one, the pressure. But she's taken it in her stride. She's learned, she's developed. And I feel like she's really kind of taking that role as her own and it's been so exciting to see now Aggy Beaver-Jones have the season that she's had and then step in as England's number nine at Wembley and score three goals. It was just, it's an incredible moment for me as a previous number nine to be like,

wow, that's so amazing to see these young lionesses now taking it by the scruff of the neck. And yeah, just thriving. And it's great competition for Serena. And it's great competition to have that as nines. And you know, we had that in the Euros, had Beth England, had Alessia Russo, that competition and you know and to do shooting together,

to have conversations, to do analysis together, to look at strikers, goalies. I think it's really important to have those relationships and those constant battles and competitiveness. I had Jodie Taylor for a number of tournaments as well. I think it's really healthy. Alessia Russo is England's number nine. I believe she will start the Euros, but hopefully nothing happens.

But Aguibibi Jones is a great option to come on. If anything happens, she's great, good energy. She scores goals. She's a little bit different profile to Alessia Russo. But I just think it's really healthy competition and something a little bit different. And I think it will help both of them, that competition. push them both and I think you need that in this in this England team. Well let's hear from Alessia now she's been speaking to Rob

Schofield. We'll get to the result in a minute but Alessia I mean when you were bounding for one goal there I was so confident you were gonna put it away I'm guessing you're gonna tell me the same thing. I mean that's what you want as a striker you want passes like that through where you're one-on-one with the keeper that's what we train for so yeah, as soon as you put that ball through I just knew I needed to get on the end of it and stay composed so Was it apart from that was it quite a frustrating game? I mean seemed like you got the balance right in the first half in carrying that threat

But I mean Claudia Pena is capable of special things but the game in a hole just got away from the team of it Didn't it? Yeah, the first half was really positive. I think we came in at half time with confidence and we kind of knew what we wanted to do in the second half. We knew that they're a top side and they could change things as well, so that's what they did and it took us a little while to get used to it and probably they were on top most of the second half, which obviously we don't want as a team. But yeah, they're a world-class team and we've got to learn to manage those moments a little bit better. Is it fair to say as well that there's still a step to go

to find your best level away from home? We were just talking to Leah there about how the real highlights have come at Wembley. Obviously you're about to spend a month, you'd hope a full month in Switzerland. Is that still something the team are looking to make that step? I mean, we love playing at home, but I think it's a Euro, so we have to step up. We have

to embrace being out there in Switzerland. We'll have our fans, we have our team, our style and it's just about going there and putting on performances that we know we're capable of. We've seen that this phase of this game, we've seen it in the Portugal game. We've got a really good set of players and it's just about fine margins now to get us to the top. And finally, how did you feel that Hannah Hampton did tonight? Because I mean, she's obviously been part of everything that's been happening the last couple of weeks, but wouldn't have liked to concede those two of course, but pulled off some big moments and showed a lot of character.

Yeah, for sure. She's stepping up each game now and she's the number one, so that's her job and we all trust her. So yeah, I mean, Claudia Pina is one of the best finishers in the game. So it was tough and we'll reflect on those moments as a team and how we can stop them at source a little bit better. But, yeah, we win and lose as a team. It's really interesting to hear Alessia Russo, their talk about Claudia Pina at the other end of the pitch. I feel like she absolutely knew Ellen what was required of her

She was so direct when that ball got played through to her. There was no sign of her slowing up or checking back She knew exactly what was required on the night For a less is finished. Yeah, do you mean sorry? Yeah. Oh She's just she knew where the goal was She knew what to do the way she opened up her body, slotted it under the keeper. I feel like she's really kind of honed in on her finishing ability, her body shape, the way she moves, the way she holds off a defender now.

And I feel like her being at Arsenal, having someone like Kelly Smith on the training pitch every day, learning from someone like that, I think it's only made her better, stronger, a more well-rounded number nine. And I think obviously Renée Slager's coming in as well. I think the style of play is really suited Alessia. And I think she's just thriving at the moment. She's having one of the seasons of her life and hopefully she can continue that into the Euros. I think for me, it's just can we feed her enough? Can we get her in the right areas? Can we get Beth Mead, Lauren Hem in those areas, midfield in those areas, through balls, crossing of

the ball a number of times in a game, not just one? And I think that's what we need. We need to give her more options and more ability to be able to score in front of goal. And you spoke a little bit before, Elz, about the nature of the different strikers that you had when you were playing. KB, now there's Agui Beaver-Jones, you've got Alessia Russo, but you've also got Michel Adjimang as well. Do you think all three potentially go? Do you think there's enough differentiation between the three of them that you can take three strikers like that? It's a fascinating question. Certainly for the first two, I think Alessi Russo, for me currently, English number nine, the way she holds the ball up, but the way she also

is happy to run in behind. I love that she's added the little outside of the foot roll with the defender, the way she's able to add a bit of disguise, in terms of her shooting, she waits till the last moment to really open up her hips and shape around the ball, which she makes it difficult for a goalkeeper. But yeah, in terms of what I really liked about her finish today as well was that line of approach that she took into the box.

She made sure that she got across the defender to cut the defending line to the ball. And I think like as soon as she did that, she had won the race and she'd already won it like psychologically. I just felt like she looks so confident going into goal. But around Aguibre-Jones and just how impressive she's been this season and what I saw against Portugal, you know, albeit they weren't great. The movement that she has, the capabilities of, you know, she can start centrally but also move into wide areas, mobility, the aggression, the physicality, you know, those types of things I think adds another element to England's attack. But for me, when I saw Michelle Ajumaine, I saw her against the 23s a few times,

and I just thought she's just another level. She's an incredibly exciting talent. I don't want to hyper up too much because she's still young. But to come on for 41 seconds against Belgium, and absolutely hit a worldly of a goal. She took that with such maturity in terms of a ball coming across, half pedaling to prepare it, cushioning it off her shoulder and then leaning back and then getting enough shoulder rotation over it to kind of make it dip just before it hits the goal. You're just thinking, how old are you? Like, you know what I mean? You've been reincarnated because you should be able to reach your age. So yeah, in terms of putting her foot forward, you know, like she's put in her application. Hopefully Serena accepts it because I'd love to see her in Switzerland.

It's amazing, isn't it, to think that one moment can lodge itself so deeply in everyone's mind. I can see that goal so vividly as well. It's such an unbelievable strike. We are going to dive into the squad announcement coming on Thursday shortly. Let's just hear from Leah Williamson who's also been speaking to Rob Schofield. Leah, not how you would have wanted the game to go. What did you make of it and how it played out?

Yeah, I thought first half was a really good display. But I think overall we just want to be better on the ball and we want to control the game more because we have the capability to do it. So we'll find out how to get that out of of ourselves work hard in the next month. Can you give us some insight on what the game plan was because it looked as if you got the balance right in the first half and carried that threat and it just got away from you the second? Yeah I think second half they really upped their pressure and I think they're adapting to the game we sort of didn't meet that with our own like adapting so I think we lost our threat which then allowed them just to grow and grow and grow in confidence.

I mean, Nations League overall, kind of what are your takeaways from the campaign? I mean, would it be fair to say that maybe there's still a step to go to perform at those levels away from Wembley? Because that's where the real highlights have come. Yeah, it's lovely to be able to turn up at home on those games, but we'd like to do it everywhere else.

And it has been three difficult away games for different reasons. But I think what we've been saying the whole time it's a New England it's you know it's one eye here but also one eye on the tournament in the summer so we wanted to wanted to try different things as well and we have to try now so it was trying to get the balance right with that as well but I think more inconsistent than we'd like but I think you've seen very very good sides of us. They're the levels that we need to keep pushing and hopefully we're ready come the tournament. It must have been difficult and frustrating almost to juggle these expectations constantly,

one eye on this, one eye on that. You've got a month to go on one friendly. How content are you with where you are at now heading into the Euros? I think obviously we'd have liked to pick up a win today. That would have done wonders for our confidence and how we feel and how we look ahead. But I think we can't forget, like I say, all the work that we have done. And as we always say, I'd rather have a lesson now than in a month's time.

The 72 Plus on the Football Daily. I'm Aaron Paul. And I'm Jobe Makhno. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily, we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. They've got so much quality there, for me, worthy winners.

They've only actually lost four games all season, which is quite remarkable really. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. Let's get into that squad list that's coming on Thursday, the 5th of June. Serena Vigman going to name 23 players to go to the Euros and we'll have all of that reaction that you need to the squad announcement on Thursday evening on five live. But when Serena spoke to Vicky Sparks yesterday, she said, we still have to make some decisions. We're getting closer, but every team performance gives you more information. We have some headaches, but I think it's good to have them. KB, just off the bat, where do you think the biggest headache is for Serena Vigman? I'm going to put this out there. I just think, you know, Lauren James in terms of fitness, will she be fit in time?

Is Serena Vigman willing to take a 80, 90% fit Lauren James? For me, I think she's that good, you know, that hopefully she is close enough to being fit that I do think she should be in the team selection. But that's only for obviously Serena Vigman and Lauren and the Chelsea physios to really know kind of where she's up to in terms of her recovery. But yeah, she adds another level to the singling team. I think we've spoken about her a few times in the past, and she is this kind of cheat code. She only needs five, 10 minutes to light up an opposition. So yeah, she's special. Can you tell me what it's like, Ellen,

when you're in a squad or you feel pretty... I know you never had this feeling because you were always worried, but when you're a part of the squad and you have been for a prolonged period of time and then you look over your shoulder and you know that there's someone there that is extremely talented, but they're in a race against time, do you want the manager to take a gamble on them or are you finding yourself being like, do you know what, if she's not fit, maybe it's

for the best? No, she's as special as LJ. And she can produce something that's quite extraordinary, that can spin a game on its head. And is as talented as that. So you just take the gamble with someone like LJ? I think, yeah. I don't want to just say it.

I don't want to tell Serena what to do because in Serena we trust obviously. But potentially to take that risk, it's so hard because you obviously, are you going to have to wait a few games for her to be fully fit? So you're essentially carrying only 22 players then into the tournament and you're kind of having to wait for her to get fit. And then you're always having to give her a few minutes to get up to speed because as much as training during a Euros or an international tournament, it's not, it's hard, isn't it? It's not the ridiculous intensity that we all know in club or whatever like that. You kind of have to taper it down a little bit. You know, maybe match day plus one for the people that haven't played is a little bit higher intensity to get back up to match fitness but you are potentially carrying someone but do you take a risk on someone that is talented

that could come on for 10-15 minutes and do something completely special and score a goal, score a winner, set up a goal, assist, do something very special that maybe you don't or you have in the squad at this moment in time. So it is a real headache for Serena. I don't know how fit she is. I don't know. So obviously if she is 90% and she could maybe be fit for, I don't know how fit she is. I don't know. So obviously if she is 90% and she, you know, she,

she could maybe be fit for, I don't know, the Netherlands or Wales game, then I don't know. KB, would you take that risk? Would you? For me, the level of fitness is key, you know, where she's up to and then what is it, four weeks to go now. And look, if she's nowhere near it, then obviously she's not going. Yeah. If she's close and she's been training at like a decent level in preparation to going, then you think, okay, I'll roll the dice here a little bit, but you don't want to, like you say, Ellen, get yourself into maybe a Sam Kerr situation,

going into the women's world cup where she might make an appearance and it's just too late, the tournament is too far gone. And you just think it's a tough decision, one that I really don't envy Serena having to make. But unfortunately for her, it's the reality of the situation. – I'm going to find through a couple of others very quickly. So injuries to Ella Morris and Millie Turner have ruled them out. We saw the returns of Hemp, Greenwood and Stamway. That's absolutely massive, Ellen, in terms of just having that experience again.

Oh, definitely. Tournament experience. I just feel like they just add another dimension and just that intensity, that know-how. And I feel like Hempel has just come in absolutely flying. It's been quite ridiculous to see how she's come back from that injury and just been at that level. Georgia in that midfield, just that tenacity and that aggressiveness and that competitiveness is what we've missed. And then Alex, just her know-how and her quality that we saw obviously against Portugal, that passing ability and just, I feel like those three were so key to have back for this Euros

and I think, you know, they'll definitely be in the squad. I just want to know quickly, how do you get told? Is it changed? Oh my God. Are you going to get, will they be doing emails? Will they get a formal FA email to say you have made the squad? I believe it's a phone call or face to face. It's a face to face. Well, that was how we found out at the Euros,

but I don't know if they won't be in camp, will they? So maybe it will be a phone call. Well, yeah, this is the thing. Everyone will go away now for a week, and I was going to say, KB, this is actually a massive week for the people that are going home and then coming back to camp. A, you need to rest, but B, the anxiety of not knowing whether you're in or not must make it almost impossible. Well, I mean, there's a few that I think will know for certain, more than a few probably, so they can rest easy now.

Obviously, the ones kind of on the bubble are slightly less mature. Yeah, they'll have a few anxious moments, but ultimately, it's completely out of their control now, isn't it? So it's entirely up to Serena. So there's no point in stressing about it, if I'm being completely honest. But okay, yeah. The way we used to find out, it'd either be a phone call or one year we got an email,

which I think was interesting. You know, like imagine just like refreshing your inbox the entire time, just thinking that it's like a positive email. That was a weird one, yeah. But it's an unsettling time, just cause you want it so bad, you know, but you can't change anything.

It's done now. Do you know what I mean? Does it get any easier as you get more senior? It's harder, I think, when you get older. Absolutely not. It gets worse. It's absolutely horrendous. Do you remember one time if you had one coach or the other coach, one coach was saying,

well, yeah, if you saw the phone, you're like, ah, you're having a laugh. You're like, please let it be this one coach ringing you. What about making the phone call? Yeah, if it was the head coach, you knew you weren't picked, because I think they wanted to tell you, you know. They're doing the letdown. If it was the assistant, you're like, woohoo! I'm really looking forward to these stories on Friday as they start to filter out of how people found out.

And I'm genuinely intrigued to see KB as well. Which of those players that are really senior, that even though they've been in every single squad for the past however long, I bet some of them are still sitting there just like, let's just get Thursday out of the way. Let's just get past this and crack on. That is where we're going to leave it for today. Thank you so much to everyone who's listened to us across the season. It's been so much fun this season.

So many people have sent us emails, messages, have got involved with the social media content that we've put out as well, which has been absolutely wonderful. So thank you so much. But we have got a massive summer ahead of us as well. So we're saying thanks to Ellen, thanks to Jen and thanks to KB too as well but we'll be seeing and hearing lots more of you guys out in Switzerland. Up next on the Football Daily more England content from the men's side this time as John Murray and Ian Dennis go inside the Three Lions training camp in Girona.

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