Football Daily - World Cup: Did VAR Cost Egypt?

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Argentina came from 2-0 down with just 11 minutes remaining to beat Egypt 3-2... but the biggest talking point afterwards was VAR.Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith are joined by the BBC's Football Issues Correspondent Dale Johnson to dissect the controversial decisions that overshadowed an extraordinary comeback and ask whether Egypt were denied a famous victory.Stephen Warnock is alongside the boys to break down one of the most dramatic matches of the World Cup, reflect on Switzerland's penalty shootout win over Colombia and continue the never-ending search for the perfect football pun.Plus, Stephen turns up with a surprise present for Lloyd... a toy fire engine.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the global story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story, and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive, but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States,

2.50. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The 2026 World Cup started with 48 teams and we've now reached the knockout stage. Records have been broken the way that Messi has been able to score all these goals late in his career. He's happy to play football and broken records is the consequence for him. And new heroes have emerged. This country's caught the fever. casual fans are now die-hard fans. And The More Than the Score podcast

is bringing you the stories beyond the score lines. More than the score from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Football Daily Podcasts at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. You sound like Harry Kane. You're okay. good. I'm excited I've enjoyed myself that's all right, isn't it? How are you saying hello?

Just the normal way. Yeah? Go on. Hello. What is that? I don't know. I genuinely don't know. Okay, well I'll see if I can do it without saying, hello.

Maybe I can't. Maybe I have to say it like that. Do you know, my singing teacher, if you're struggling to start something, you go, hello, try that. Okay. Hello.

Obviously, do the sentence, though. All right. Hello, you're listening to The Football Daily with me, Rick Edwards, and me, Lloyd Griffith. Thank you for the help with saying hello, though. I didn't need it, turns out. A couple of nice moments watching the two games today. The first was, I'd got my timings a bit wrong, and so we were watching the Egypt-Argentina game, which was very exciting.

9 o'clock start, for us. 9 o'clock start, so we're watching it at home, me, you, producer Lizzie. And I had to get out to a meeting and the timings were... Another meeting. Yeah. It wasn't perfect. And so I just thought, okay, I'm going to have to run in and just do an incredibly quick shower for like three minutes shower, in and out and hope I don't miss anything.

As I get out the shower, I hear you two shouting. And so I've, well, I've just marauded into the living room just in my towel. Yeah. I accept that it was a bit much, but I also... It was like an old spice video. Yeah, thank you very much indeed. It was like an old spice video I shouldn't have played the music as I came about

A man of an age He's in a towel Hey guys Man of an age You know, yeah But you've got an age I have got an age There you go

So there's no denying that is there Yeah But anyway so sorry Well it's not me I mean I'm and also sorry I think it's producer Lizzie But I'm glad I got to see Was it the I can't remember which gold it was

Was it the goal that wasn't a goal It's the goal that wasn't a goal It was the goal that wasn't a goal I'm glad I saw that Yeah We saw a replay I'm glad you saw it. Can I just say something?

Yeah. It's quite mad how you've just shaved a thunderbolt into your body hair. By mad you mean sexy. Oh yeah, in a way, yeah, anyway. And then the other thing is for the second game for Columbia, Switzerland, we went to a bar and it was full of Colombians. We say our local? We basically our local, yeah. And it was great vibe in there. So the Colombians, they've got their drums and they're dancing. Cal bells. And they're winding. and it's excellent. You don't think they were winding? There was a lady sort of, well,

here to us, who spent most of the time winding. What'd be my winding? When you say winding, I think of a jacket box. Sort of like a dance. Right, okay. Maybe I've got the wrong word, I don't know. She was doing something. I think she was just cheering on her team.

Well, for a while, I didn't realize there was a screen behind us, so I also thought she was just facing the wrong way. Just loving the vibe. But she was watching it. Anyway, it's a lovely time. Yeah. Very, very vibrant.

and then at some point you sort of realized that people are giving you a funny look They were like looking at me and like almost like not disbelief and I was like oh here we go you know what I mean I didn't realize that Return to Paradise

you know available on the eye player is that big in in Colombia you know I know I know I know it's on Briprocks over here but I was like whoa cranky I think I've got some fans here and then the looks are a bit like disconcerting I was like what is what is their problem

I mean I'm a neutral here and you think they've definitely seen return to paradise leave it out Rick award winning and then a lady came over to me she went excuse me

are you supporting Switzerland I'm not I'm English I went oh right and then she went it's just your top and for the people look at this online visuals

I'm basically wearing what can be described as well the ones who are looking at it can see it well it's a Switzerland top it's a new red and white lotto top that I've got

because Grimsby just been sponsored by lotto so I'm just really getting into the vibe I'm a shill for Grimm's a bit but it does look like I'm wearing a Switzerland top. Oh no, I'm supporting

I don't support any of these I'm a neutral which didn't help because obviously Switzerland neutrals. And what also didn't help is you had your cuckoo clock with you didn't you? A load of cheese with holes in it. Yeah, and you paid when you had a lovely

K or Caesar. I mean you paid for that just with a gold bar. Yeah. I did, yeah. And I had some Diableret, which is a lovely little herbal drink which is probably quite niche for this podcast.

It does get occasionally quite niche. Google it. So yeah, and welcome to the podcast, Stephen Warner. This is the kind of stuff we're talking out. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Just been sat there for the entire time there. Just like thinking, why have I agreed to do this then? This is my day off. Why am I here? Because I'd like to say try not to laugh, but it looked quite easy. Didn't hear a single thing from him? Can we make sure he's headfeited? Are they? Okay, brilliant. Was it was, were there any bits that you missed or? No, no. They heard it all. Enjoyed it all. Yeah, I was laughing to me.

Well, I thought, because I haven't been introduced. Tell your face and your voice that. I didn't want to laugh and say, someone goes, who's that in the background? Yeah. Yeah. But funny, though? Yeah, very funny.

Very funny. Fair play to you. Lovely. Let's do it all again. Now, it is obviously nice to have you in person. We've had you on the pod remotely, but you just get a better vibe in person. Yeah. Do you know, it was lovely because, obviously, me and Lloyd were talking about fire engines.

So I thought, I've bought you a little present, Lloyd. No, you have not. Oh. Oh, no, you have not. I just thought what can I get and what can I bring just to say it's so I say it's it's so pathetic this is lovely for the listeners it is a is a friction-powered fire rescue team fire fire appliance because that's the correct terminology it also says try me you've left the price on and I really appreciate that as well yeah that's not cheap can I this is we are in America

can I say 100% true yeah and I'll send you a photo of it. My three-year-old has this exact fire engine. Does it? Not anymore. No. Where do you think we got it? This is great. Light and sound. I know you've got a day off tomorrow, so enjoy your day off. And this is a Simon Snorkel as well. It's not a normal ladder. It's a Simon Snorkel, as you can see from the back there. That's a ladder. Simon Snorkel and just like your normal appliance.

Can I also say, when Greg James, big fan of the pod, he was like, I can't believe. Stephen also likes fire engines. And there was Rick trying to to prove who it. Like, embrace the quirks. There are. Weirdly. It's quite strange, isn't it?

No, he's not strange. It's absolutely normal. I'm going to put that down here if that's right. That's lovely. Oh, mate, that's beautiful. Well, let's talk about the football, shall we? Argentina survived another scare today, coming back from 2-0 down to beat Egypt 3-2.

We'll come on to the football in a moment. But there was so much VAR drama and controversy in this one. Let's bring in the BBC's football issues correspondent. Dale Johnson. Now, Dale, just to sort of explain what happened, Zico had put Egypt 2-0 ahead in the 58th minute. It was an unbelievable goal, incredible workout on the right wing, one of the most significant goals of the tournament potentially, and then the referee gets called by VAR to review a challenge on Lysandro Martinez at the start of the move that was way back in the Egypt's half and it got chalked off.

only that, but then when Argentina's winning goal went in, Egypt were complaining for a potential penalty on Mo Salah about as far back as that previous one. So I suppose the first question is, well, two parts actually. Can VAR go back that far to look at a foul? But more importantly, should it? Yeah, so I think there's two parts and potentially a third part of this question, really. No, just two, just two. In terms of time, really, you can go back much further and actually in terms of in the Premier League they don't go back too far at all and the fact there's a really good comparable one from last season involving Astonville and Brentford where the ball went out with play virtually in exactly the same

area of the pitch that it did in Iceland versus Egypt right in the far corner by the corner flag and in the first Premier League game it went back 19 seconds and today's game it was 17 seconds so that just shows there's quite a bit of time but honestly sometimes in the European European leagues, they go back 40, 45 seconds, whereas in the Premier League they have a much more controlled idea of what should be the attacking phases, they call it. Now, when it comes to whether they should go back that far, I think the Premier League's got it better that way, to be honest. I think going back so far in the move whereby people don't realize when the attack has actually begun, I don't think that makes any sense at all. Yeah, because they said in the

attacking phase, and instinctively you looked at it and went, well, that's not in the attacking phase. defending. Yeah. Yeah, so the way it's defined is, is when the team gets the possession of the ball to start the attack. So if they get possession of the ball by committing a foul, then that means it's in the attacking phase, and that's how they define it. It sort of feels to me like there should just be, I don't know if it's an arbitrary limit, but if you don't set a limit to how far you can go back, then you end up just re-refereeing the whole game, and surely that isn't the point of VAR. Well, no, exactly. And, And it's one thing that frustrates people more than anything else is VR getting involved when, I guess, when people aren't expecting to, when they've just seen, especially when you've seen one of the goals of the tournament, as they did today.

And people just get frustrated and feel that VR's there just to find a reason to disallow a goal and take the joy out of the game that they're watching. I think the thing was also quite frustrating, especially for the Egyptian team. The foul that was given that VAR went and looked at was probably not as bad. some other stuff that have been given throughout the day and especially throughout the tournament like the referees during this tournament have been well they've been quite strong on uh on the i think they've let a lot of stuff go and this you kind of go and ordinarily i think you probably would have let that go i think the big thing for me is it's not clear and obvious when you watch it so often we say a penalty given and you go has he missed something clear and obvious

you didn't miss anything clear and obvious because i actually thought it was more a tangling of legs so why does he then go back and look at it if it's a clear foul and you go do you know what I've absolutely missed that but it didn't look as obvious to me as a clear and obvious it just looked like a tangling of legs it just sort of stands on his foot a little bit

but it's not like it is I mean it's soft when we watch the game and I'm sure you're in the same position Dale like when they go oh they're going to look at something we'd watch the game and like what are they going back for

whereas again the situation with the Salawan later on, you're going, well, there, it's in the penalty area. And that is, I think, clear and obvious. Have you missed that? Because it's quite clear. It's, it's in the penalty area and could be a penalty. Whereas this is a foul that was, I don't, you know, again, in the defensive phase. I mean, they're trying to recover there. So I just think there's a lot of ambiguity. I think the likes a good point there. Thank you. Does he? Just good to get your first one. The challenges that have been let to let go, they're like, We've had a really, really high thresholds.

Pierre-Louisier-Colina said only last week that he wants normal football contact to allow to go, so there's a higher-tempo game, so you're not stopped starting on tackles. That's great. But if you're doing that, you've got to have the same ethos in the VAR room as well, and you can't disallow goals for fouls

which would never have been given on the field in the first place. Otherwise, you've got a two-tier situation whereby you're having one threshold in VAR and one threshold on the pitch. And if they don't match and come together properly, then you have situations like this. And then let's look at another one, actually, in the Germany Ecuador game a couple of weeks ago

where there was a high boot into the face of one of the Ecuador players. And Leroy Sine's goals are allowed to stand. And that just shows another area of inconsistency where that was a clear boot to the face, yet the VAR didn't get involved. And today you've got something which is 17 seconds back in the move where people didn't even realize anything had happened, yet this time the VAR does get involved and disallows the goal

and it just gives that feeling of inconsistency and the fans don't really understand what is happening with VAR and when the intervention is actually going to happen. Yeah, it's frustrating. I suppose actually, to your point, Stephen, that looks exactly like normal football contact. Yeah, I think the big thing is as well is everything's subjective. So you're going to get different decisions.

If we had a different referee and a different VAR today, looking at that foul, they could have seen it completely different and this is the problem with VAR and VAR really frustrates me at times because it is so subjective and it's only a matter of opinion. Another point on the Sala one. Now if that

foul had happened outside the penalty area we may well have seen the VAR get involved and given the foul and disallowed the go but because the foul the potential power took place in the penalty area that means it's a potential penalty so the threshold's even higher because it needs to be a proper

clear foul to give a penalty and that makes it even more confusing for people. I mean, that's just ridiculous, isn't it? It's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, for what it's worth, I probably don't think it was a pen. Did you think it was?

No, I didn't think it was a penalty. No. No, I mean... But that's sort of not quite the point here. It's not quite the point, no, but again, looking back to both of those fowls, I don't think they were fowls. No, I didn't.

You know, the one that was brought back and you just go, just let us enjoy the game, please. Better enjoy the game. Well, I'll tell you who didn't enjoy it very much is the Egypt manager. This is what he said in his post-match media stuff. We look better than the reigning champions, better in everything, but the result was influenced by internal factors on the pitch and external factors off it.

Perhaps they wanted to keep the world champion in the competition. Perhaps they wanted Messi to stay in the running. In football, there are sometimes external factors that go beyond the technical aspects. The world champion received support at every level. There seemed to be pressures from the Argentine side on the outcome. We haven't seen respect to a fair play. A penalty for us was ruled out, was not even checked by the VAR, and our second goal was remarkably for whatever reason disallowed.

We've all seen the shirt pulled back by, you're talking about McAllister, not even a VAR check, life is unfair, normal life is unfair, why is there no fairness in sports? I'm not convinced by this outcome and the way things unfolds in this match. I want to put it in beautiful words and say hard luck, but we've been treated unfairly, and it's been an injustice. Now, the BBC have reached out to FIFA and said, what do you want to say in response to that,

and haven't had a response as yet. You can see what he's angry. Yeah, and, you know, I'm not really buying into the kind of conspiracy angle particularly, but I also do understand why he would think, okay, if that situation is reversed, does he believe if Argentina had scored that goal, would it have been pulled back for that soft a foul by Argentina's 17 seconds before? And, I mean, we'll never know. We will never know.

There was a little bit of me thinking, and again, like you said earlier, it's also, subjective. If Egypt are playing Switzerland and it's not Argentina does he give the free kick there? And this is not me being a bit of a flat earther here I mean and going on a real conspiracy kind of like... But you do

believe that though, don't you? I've just never seen it from... And you've never seen the edge. I think it's... And there would be an edge. But I do think there is sometimes unconscious bias that refs sometimes maybe don't realize they're doing. Yeah, but also

So just generally, you know that there is pressure in certain situations on referees, and they react in ways that any human would. So like a penalty at Amfield, for example, like... The other thing I would say on that is you're talking about the referee. It's actually VAR who's stepped in. So it's not him on the pitch who's making that decision. So the foul that's been given is actually come from above, and it's VAR, and then it's up to him then to make that decision.

I think he didn't pull it up then so stick to your original decision that's my big thing where I say clear and obvious did I miss something really obvious there no he didn't I don't know the answer to this but I just wonder if any referees

have gone to a screen this tournament and come back Dale I'm not sure if you know the answer and have gone actually you know what I disagree with that because every time they go to it the screen like in the England Mexico if it goes to the screen right well he's being sent off

and also that's the penalty there was one wasn't I remember I can't know which game it was That's Senegal when I'm going to get a penalty and the referee didn't give the penalty. And it was nuts because it was a very clear penalty. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just generally speaking on VAR in this tournament then, Dale, and the consistency of it,

lots of people have sort of been wondering whether it's been used more than we see it be used in the Premier League. Have we got any kind of data on that? Yeah, so it's used about one every three games in the World Cup. It's about just under one, only three, every three in the Premier League. being used more in the World Cup. But I think perception has changed slightly. I think during the group stage, people had the idea that VIA was staying out of things and being quite consistent.

But I think when we've got some knockout rounds, I think there's been quite a few incidents like we've seen today where people are starting to think, yeah, maybe it isn't quite so smooth. And I think the reason for that is, and what we've seen in the Premier League, is that when you try to have a higher bar on things, it's far more difficult to get that subjective point, which we just talked. about where you've got 30 different VARs in rotation and they've all got to try and find the same subjective bar and managing to do that it's really nearly impossible and the reason why it sometimes looks better in things like the Champions League who have an intervention every

other game is because they get involved in so much that looks consistent because there's not so much opinion going on the person sat in the VAR room so I think it's just it's better to try and have a lighter touch but it makes it much more difficult and much more controversial. Just where we got you, Dale, what's the latest on the red card issue that we've all been talking about for the last few days? Do we know if France are going to appeal Alise's yellow? Do we know if England are going to appeal Kwanza's red? So there's no actual route to appeal, as should have been the case via the United States as well, of course. So you can't blame everyone chancing their arm. Obviously in the case of France,

they're scared that Alise will get a yellow card in the quote. final and miss a semi-final and England what a chance their arm of getting their quons are available for the next two games which is very unlikely to happen but the FIFA have created this situation themselves by the absolutely ludicrous situation where they have gone back on their own rules to change the way the whole process works and how we know it works that when you get sent off in a world cup or any tournament be that the Champions League or the Euro's or the World Cup you miss the next game and because they've gone back on that because of

let's be honest some intervention from Donald Trump, then it just creates this situation whereby, why shouldn't anybody think that they also have the right to get their player available or to avoid this risk of suspension? So I think anyone that's got into disdiction now is going to raise potential appeals. The Qantas red card, is that one or two match ban? Two, isn't it?

There's another thing, is serious foul players are two match ban. So in the case of Ballaghan, he should have got two games. But they only gave him a one match ban suspended. So why didn't he get two games? That hasn't been explained either. The feet of disciplinary could say is at least two matches for that. I reckon we just start Quanza. Just start Quanza.

And see what happens. Do you know, I just think just start Quanza, see what happens. I mean, what's he going to do? Come on the pitch. Get off, mate. Go and entertain them lot up there. You know what I mean? The views of Lloyd Griffith there, not the BBC.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cheers, Dale. See later. Cheers, Dale. The United States is about to mark its 250. anniversary. And so on the global story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it.

I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The 26 World Cup started with 48 teams. and we've now reached the knockout stage. Records have been broken the way that Messi has been able to score all these goals late in his career. He's happy to play football and broken records is the consequence for him.

And new heroes have emerged. This country's caught the fever. Casual fans are now die-hard fans. And the More Than the Score podcast is bringing you the stories beyond the score lines. More than the score from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Hi, White Sports. Hello, I'm Alastair Bruce Ball,

and I'll be commentating on the World Cup for the BBC this summer. It's a commentator, favourite World Cup moment. France 4, Argentina 3 in Russia, 2018. Amazing goal from Benjamin Pavard in that game on the half-bolly. What makes the World Cup such a special tournament? It's exotic nature I think particularly as a kid It just seemed to happen in far off lands

That you'd only ever dreamt about Or heard about The People World Cup 2026 Listen on BBC Sounds The football day At the People World Cup 2026 With Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith Live from LA

They just want to quickly Give a lot of credit to Henry Winter Football journalist Friend of the Pod Who had the best take on the VAR If you've heard this, if VAR had gone any further back in that Egyptian move, Tutankar moon would have been involved.

Well, yes, Henry. On the game itself then, I mean, so close to being just an unbelievable day for Egypt, 2-0 up with like 11 minutes remaining. And you found a stat that, like, with the equivalent of Optor or whatever said, at that point, Argentina had a 0.6% chance of getting through, something like that. And then this nuts turn around,

Argentina scoring twice in the space of four minutes. Romero, then obviously, I mean, obviously, Messi, getting the equaliser with the technique on that strike as well. Does your stats thing not take into consideration that Argentina have Messi? I tell you what, it was really interesting as well watching that game because, again, on paper, it's Argentina. I mean, they should probably walk all over Egypt, and Egypt haven't been incredible this tournament.

And then Egypt, we're fantastic. They were absolutely fantastic. And they scored some brilliant goals. One allowed. One disallowed. And you do really, really feel for them. The real victims, I think, are the tabloid headline writers who would have been sitting on. They sphinx it all over.

It's all over. It is now. Pyramid scheme gone wrong? Yeah. There's loads of stuff. Just all that off the top of my head. Yeah. Got any more?

Well done. Mommy's crying. Yeah. I don't know. Gein. So something in. Giza's a wave Pyramids at Giza

Giza Giza's a wave No it doesn't work Hey Got any Pyramids scheme gone wrong We'll be

So good Hey We'll be Cairoing back With Norway next week Yeah Let's move on I'm in that last one

I've got a lively And the one before On Argentina Okay It was the It was the latest A team Has ever been

Two or more goals down And gone on to win Without needing extra time good stat very good stat I don't think

they've won a game from 2-0 down and the World Cup before had they as well Argentina haven't no so even more impressive he did think once

they got the equaliser oh you just knew it was happening yeah I think Egypt knew didn't they they were just like no that is not what we needed they were all begging

for the offside for Romero weren't they hoping that it was going to be offside and no no just from a sort of neutral perspective Argentina

last couple of games in particular have been absolutely You're getting your money's worth. I mean, really. You're getting your dollars worth out here. Yeah. You're getting goals.

Yeah. So we had Guillain Baligay on the other day, and he was talking about Messi's stats overall. Yeah. And he moves about six kilometres in a game. And on average, I suppose, players moving 10, 11, 12, something like that. So about half the amount. And 62% of that is walking. Walking.

And so I spent quite a bit of the game just watching Messi. And he is just walked. Like, quite often he won't even be on the screen. because he's just ambling back from somewhere and then every now and again there's just a little scurry of activity but basically he is good scurry isn't it? The best scurry

exactly there's two things I thought were quite interesting even after the penalty miss he just walked he just mozed he just mose it on over quick look up to the sky and then we'll just mose it over but I've been since watching that video of geem saying that fact I've been watching other footballers now and just seeing if

they do it and Christiano do it and Cristiano does it, but not in the same way, and that's not me having a dig at Cristiano. Sounds like it. Be careful what you say. You listen to the pod. Yeah, some of his fans do actually listen to the pod, and they love it. But then also Harland as well.

Harland before that second goal yesterday. Oh, sorry. No, it's the first. It's the header. It looks like. He looks like he looks sort of lost. He's just sort of. He's just wandering around.

Wandering around. And then Sunday is just like this massive burst. bang and it's in it's like it's really yeah it's very pleasing doing your own player can that's what the best players in the world can do yeah and that's why they're so special because they just find space i walk around but i'm yeah but you're walking in the wrong directions yeah that's the problem lloyd you haven't seen lloyd play i have seen lloyd i actually do walk no he's not on the camera that's why because he's walking the wrong way i'm just there but i'm walking because i've got quite a large bm i'm um most ala had a really good

really good game today. Not quite his absolute best, but he did some stuff. And, you know, as a Liverpool fan, I feel quite good for him. He's better in a centre of all position at the moment. Yeah. I think it suits where he can just drift either side.

Rather than hugging the touchline and being a little bit predictable, whereas when he's that central and he can pick up speed through the middle, he's difficult to play against. I think he's been really sharp in this World Cup. I'm being completely honest. Today was his best game.

by an absolute mile, but yeah. Just some of their play today was absolutely fantastic. Really tippy-tappy, nice little triangles. And it's, you know, it's not easy to run rings around Argentina. And they didn't. They can't defend. That's what I was going to say. They have rubbish in defence.

Yeah. They aren't all that, are they? No, not at all. When you've got two centrebacks who are so erratic in Martinez and Romero, who just want to take you out on the halfway line because they're so frightened of teams running at you. You think of the pace of Egypt, and they're so quick and direct.

That's what they're panicking about. They get overrunning my field because they lose the positions. So you can counter-attack them really easily. But also they are, I mean, you have to, but they are carrying a player. There is a player who is not doing any of that other work. To a certain degree. So there is going to be more space that they're going to have to try and defend, right? Yeah, and that's part and parcel of it.

But they accept that, and that's what it is. Anyone else to face them, you'll be licking your lips at that again, weren't you? They're conceded five in the last three. And you're thinking, oh, I mean, we can definitely. score a goal. It's Switzerland, isn't it? I mean, Switzerland

didn't exactly look lethal in front of a goal in the game we've just watched. But I don't think they'll go into that game necessarily being completely intimidated

because you definitely can have a goal. But Egypt hadn't been great, aren't they? No, no. But what they are, and both teams, both Egypt and Switzerland,

is they've got pace and attack so they can carry that threat on their counter attack. Argentina will dominate the ball, but then it's what they do in transition. That's where they'll struggle.

It's so tempting to get wildly ahead of yourself, isn't it? But I'm going to. England beat Norway than they meet either Switzerland or Argentina. And I'm sort of not that scared.

Worried about either of them? No. Do you know what? I actually don't fear anybody at the moment. I'm more worried about Norway than Argentina or Switzerland. And again, we'll look ahead to the Norway game, but I just think we've got so many players in the England squad

and setup that can nullify the threat of Harland. Well, definitely. Now we're bringing Kwanza back in. especially because a lot of them play with them and play with them day in, day out. So now it plays, and there's people that... But that's a concern. Yeah.

Because they know how good he is, and he knows their weaknesses. Yeah. And that's one of the biggest problems. When you put it like that, I hadn't... I hadn't thought about it. Sorry, I'll make a move. No, thanks for coming, too.

No, that's not where you're here for. Didn't think of that, did you, Lloyd? Do you know what? We can't list the things he hasn't thought of. No. I'm going to be honest with it. I spoke to my... girlfriend earlier on and I said you know what I don't fear anyone and I said exactly those words

she went are you rehearsing the podcast on me and I was like yeah I think it's gone quite well but again she we haven't got our next premier league ex-girlfriend so um I mean you know fair plays for not picking up on it but she should have said fair place you for picking up on a podcast too we could have just edited around that but now should we have a little look at messys stats a few more of message yeah why not so he's on how many goals now eight most in the opening five games of a single edition since Gerd Muller. In 17. Also, though...

I love this record. And this is... The guy is unbelievable, as we know, but he is now the first player in World Cup history to miss two penalties at a single tournament. Makes you feel better, doesn't it? Yeah. It's great.

He isn't... For everything he could do, he's not a particularly a penalty date. It's strange, isn't it? Also, I'm sorry, though, but if you've got a penalty and it's Argentina, like, There's only one person that's going to be taking it. Well, you imagine the pressure on someone else stepping up to take a penalty where

Messi goes, yeah, here's the ball. Do you know what I think you do? Just give it Martinez. Just give it Martinez. Give it the butcher. The goalkeeper, I was thinking. Oh, yeah. Give it a goalkeeper.

Yeah, yeah. And just well, yeah, put your laces through it or whatever they wear these days and just tonk. It'll take the pressure off the others. Go, why do they do this? He scores. Messy's like, nice one, thanks. Yeah, yeah.

Messy walks back to the centre circle. I hate his hair though, Martina. It's not a good look, is it? It's awful. Imagine if Jordan Pickford had an ink, like a St. George's flag in the side of it, the stick that he would get. It's quite childish, isn't it? Rightly so as well.

It's quite childish. Yeah. It's like when you're about 12 and you shave the lines into your eyebrow. You definitely had that, didn't you? Of course I did, sunshine. Course I did. It's not amateur hour over here. Let's talk about the Switzerland-Columbia game then.

Not masses to say. It was fairly low on quality. Some good keeper saves. Yeah, decent saves. But as you say, like quite low on quality. And again, we've been talking about a lot of teams who have got standout players or two or three players. With both of those teams, you don't really have those standout players.

Lewis Diaz, come on. Dias, yeah. You didn't turn up today though, did he? Not at all. No. Not at all. Really poor. I mean, I've been thoughtful.

Fortunately, I went to Columbia, Portugal, in Miami. The atmosphere was phenomenal. And that's what the World Cup's going to lose with Colombia. Every game in America, they can fill a stadium. They're following and is unbelievable. So that's what you'll lose, that atmosphere and that feeling around the grounds. But let's see if the Swiss can turn up. With their chocolates?

With the chocolates, yeah. The penalties were not, I mean, there was a couple. were absolutely skied. Kanji's was awful, wasn't it? It was like he was a kicker for an American football. Came back to celebrate. He was like, oh no. He was trying to get it in that gap behind the goal.

And do you know what? You say that. I find that quite weird. It is odd. We're playing in American football stadiums. And in a lot of them, there's no crowd. Is that that bit where they run out, you know, where they don't have the traditional tunnel at the half-play line. They've got these, like, big, like vast areas where the players come out for American

football. But when you're having a penalty shoot, there's no one behind you. There's no one to put you off. In the Argentina game earlier, that influencer by show speed was trying to put off offline on Messi and there's people behind there.

For this one, there's no one. And you think, oh, well, the pressure's off. But it turns out the pressure is on. There's also that feeling of, I wonder if I can put it in there? What if I get me kicked wrong and put it in there? It's even worse, isn't it?

Do I get extra for that? No at all. I'm glad you mentioned speed, the influencer, because for this entire he seems to be at every game and he's very connected I suppose with FIFA

like sometimes he's in that he's in the FIFA well he's with the big boss yeah and I look I completely realise this makes me a granddad I don't I don't get

I am I don't get it I don't I don't what is the and if you want to get in touch with us please send us a message if you can explain so if you're basically if you're younger

why why do you you like this man? I asked a friend as to why he gets invited to a lot of these things, especially quite large FIFA games and why he's in prominent positions. And they got told that basically he is fantastic bait for the players, the legacy players, because their kids absolutely adore him. So there you go, oh, would you like to come to this? And sometimes they're like, yes, if they're like, no, they're like, oh, and also that speed lad's

going to be there. And they're like, oh, great, my kids love him. so he kind of like used his bait for that's horrible isn't it i mean look and also he's obviously got a number of a million followers and he is obviously very successful but we're we're not the target we're sorry we're three grandadts here we are twice see three granders it's the oldest conversation we've had on this podcast yeah it's driving my pictures a lot of kings and queens behind us i mean we're not that demographic but i can tell you all about the car park that richard was founded in lester okay yeah i bet you can't good film he probably hasn't even seen the documentary

we'll fool him. Stephen, thank you very much. Where are you off to you next? I'm staying here in L.A. Nice. Yeah, so I'm here for the quarterfinal game on Friday. And then I'm flying home that night. So my trip is over.

Have you been to the L.A. stadium yet? I haven't. I can't wait. So I was here. The last Merseyside Derby at Gooderson, I was out in L.A. And have you been to Kossum? No, but we'd like to go.

Oh, would you? We've seen the pictures. Yeah, it looks good. Have you got a contact? Yes. Oh, brilliant. This is great. I actually do.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Love that. So the last time I was over here, I actually went to Cozham with my fiance who's in Evertonian and we watched the game together in there. It is unbelievable. But walk around the stadium because it's right next door. And I was like, I need to go in there.

And then when I got my schedule and I got told I was coming to L.A., I was like, perfect. I was at the concourse. On the concourse the other week, watching one of the games at the L.A. stadium and a lady said to her husband she went oh my god this is just like watching it at chasm i was like no that's not it's the other way around it's the other way around it is this is almost as good yeah well enjoy the game on on friday i think we're going to try and blag our way in aren't we yeah yeah a game or cosum yeah well baby both yeah no games tomorrow it's a tournament rest day what we're going to do i don't i mean ride around on our hogs aimlessly i suppose

I don't know what to do. There's no football to watch. Re-watch some of the games? Yeah, maybe. Could be that. Sit around and our pants all day. I'll get out, actually, I think. Nice.

Stay in. I'm just go and watch some graph roots football. Some 4G routes football. I don't think they have that. We do have our quarterfinals confirmed now, though. France, Morocco. That's on Thursday. Then Spain, Belgium, Friday.

Norway, England. They'll be Cai rowing home. Norway will be. and then Argentina, Switzerland, very early on Sunday. We'll be back with another episode. I think we're doing one tomorrow, actually. I think, yeah, I think actually we are going to do one. Squeezer, it's an absolute...

She loves to work. She loves to work. Do you not like the sun? So make sure you're subscribed to the Football Daily Feed and turn your push notifications on so you do not miss an episode. Stephen, have you got your push notifications turned on? I have.

Yes, legend like me. Grandad over it on his BlackBree. Don't believe it. Don't believe in it. The 2023 Ballandor, France footballer is Lionel Messi. The winner is Chris Renaud. This is the story of the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, a rivalry that split football into two fates for a generation.

There could be no, oh, Messi and Ronaldo are both great players. There had to be one that was better. They 100 million percent pushed each other to the next level. You know, we were the lucky ones who got to see it. I'm Steve Crossman. This is Sporting Giants, Messi v. Ronaldo. Listen first on BBC Sounds. The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary.

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The 2026 World Cup started with 48 teams and we've now reached the knockout stage. Records have been broken. The way that Messi has been able to score all these goals late in his career. He's happy to play football and broken records is the consequence for him. And new heroes have emerged. This country's caught the fever. Casual fans are now diehard fans. And The More Than the Score podcast is bringing you the stories beyond the score lines.

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