Football Daily - World Cup: MNC - Argentina made the world root for Spain

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Spain succeed, Argentina played the villains and is the pressure off Thomas Tuchel?Steve Crossman is joined by Adam Crafton, Steph Houghton and Luis Miguel Echegaray to discuss the fallout from the World Cup Final and England's bronze final win over France.1:21 - Former Spanish international Cesar Azpilicueta pays tribute to Spain 14:37 - Did Argentina make themselves the bad guys? 30:58 - Has England's 3rd place finish taken the pressure off Thomas Tuchel?

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. And even recreated squid games all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism?

Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The Football Day at the People World Cup 2026. With Steve Crosman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello there. We've got an hour of the Monday nightclub reflecting on Spain winning the World Cup.

They beat Argentina in the final last night, 1-0. After extra time, Ferran Torres got the good. we've got with us, Steph Oat and former England captain, the Athletics, Adam Crafton and Louis Miguel Etchagari. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. Adam, great to have you with us as well, out in New York, I imagine. Yes, still here.

Maybe the last person still here, as everyone sweeps away. Turn off the lights, etc., yeah? Exactly, exactly. That was some final, Steph. Yeah, I think being English, it was the perfect outcome for us. I know we're trying to be impartial, but I think, yeah, I mean, I think Spain thoroughly deserved to win. Only if that goal could have come a little bit early,

that would have been nice. But, yeah, I mean, to top off a great World Cup, I think Spain were the worthy winners. We're going to talk a little bit later about Argentina and their, let's call it, behaviour over the course of the game. We're going to start by just letting Spain enjoy their victory, because for the next 10 minutes, we've got Cesar Aspillar Quetta with us.

Hello, Cesar. Hello. How does that feel? World champions again, eh? Really well, really well. How nervous were you as that game went on and Spain had all of the ball and a few chatt and it just wasn't going in

or it wasn't counting? Yeah, I was starting to feel a bit more nervous because I think the control and the way Spain controlled the game was not reflected in the score and, you know, the time goes on. and you feel you want to win and I was really pleased

the way they managed the game which was not very easy. I think everybody felt they deserved to be in front earlier in the game but the goal didn't arrive and they kept pushing they kept the patience,

they kept calm and they played their football. Let's go straight in on Rodry I think Cesar because we haven't got as long as we might have normally to talk about Spain's glorious victory and I think for a lot of people

seeing Roderie who of course, you played with the Spanish national team for a long time. Seeing him back to his best, I don't think it's only sort of Manchester City and Spain fans who will have enjoyed that. I think for a lot of people, they wondered, might we see Roderie on this level again? But there he was. Yeah, he was amazing.

He had a challenging season with Man City, but he was at his best level, I controlled the game from start to finish the tournament. and for Spain is such as a key player to have a number six the same way Buscettes was in the past in front of the defence and he controlled in defence in attack he was the leader, the captain and he was a very important player of this team.

I think he makes things look easy and I think that's kind of a mark of a brilliant player and I'm a big fan of Roderie seen him play a week and week out for Man City and of course he had that nasty knee injury and I think that understanding that sometimes when you go through an injury like that it does take a while to get back to your best form

and a player that's been so used to playing every three or four days for a number of years and winning the treble, winning Ballandor, of course, the expectations massive but I think Roderys were all yesterday and especially in the semi-final against France was instrumentally, he made it look easy against whoever was pressing, he found spaces,

he was able to break lines but I think at the right time doing the simple things I think yesterday he just controlled the tempo and that's what I admire so much about him that in them big games he's able to have that bravery to get on the ball and just to make Spain tick

and he's done that throughout his career to be honest what's he like to play with Cesar? Amazing you can give him the ball whenever you feel under pressure you just pass to him he will find Is that a defender's thing Cesar? Yes.

You know, you have to be clever. You know, you have to pass the ball to the ones that they know where to pass. And, you know, that's the awareness that he has, you know, sometimes he plays one time. Sometimes he makes the right control to the right space. And that's just amazing to have the chance to train with him. And, you know, when I was playing against him to feel the way he was playing and then to have him as a teammate in the national team,

you know, you can see he's a player with the, that personality. He wants the ball. He wants to dictate the game, especially as you mentioned, against France. And yesterday he was superb. I think Luis, that's right,

isn't it? What I said before about you don't just have to be a Spain or a Manchester City fan to enjoy seeing, I mean, obviously if you're an Argentinian fan, you wouldn't have, but to see Roderie back at the top of his game, there was a time last season where he just didn't quite look, there was a stiffness to Rodry almost when he played.

Yeah, and it's obviously, you know, it was acceptable, right, because of everything he had to go through after that ACL. But Roder, to me, is everything, obviously, Cesar, and by the way, Cesar Felicidad is everything that everything that Spain is all about. It's funny, right? Because I remember, you know, obviously that mythical quote about Sergio Bousquet's, right? You watch the whole, you watch the game, you don't see Bousquet's, you see the whole game. But what Roderie, like, you watch the game, you see Rodri.

Like he's right there. He's just a commander. He's a conductor. I mean, some of the stats from Opta are just absolutely ridiculous. He, like, completed 655 passes at the World Cup. That's the most by any player at a single edition of a men's World Cup since 1966. He was also the fourth most when it came to breaking up play as well. And so you see the entire match through Roderie.

He is the ultimate general. And I love the fact that Cesar says that about, you know, like, yeah, just give it to him and you'll take care of it because it's so true. And even if you don't have the ball, the biggest obsession with Luis de la Fuente is not possession. It's recovery of possession. That's what makes them so great. And I was there at MetLife yesterday.

And I have never seen such an intoxicating team that like as soon as they lose the ball, they want to get it as soon as possible. Argentina couldn't deal. And Rodri is the ultimate leader of that. It was just a magnificent performance and there's a served World Cup win for. for Spain 100%. Cesar, if he is a general, is he a very vocal general?

Is he a softly spoken general? Does Roderie get angry when things aren't going well? What's he like in the moments where we don't see him, but you obviously did? Yeah, he is a great competitor. I think his mentality wants to win.

He has won a lot of trophies and he still wants more and he wants to be an important player and he wants to get the ball and even in training. So, you know, it's something like I mentioned in the games I did for the BBC with Spain. The risk defense that they have shown in this World Cup has been amazing. The way they position and he's there in front of the defense.

So he knows where to go, where to recover the ball. Even in the buildup, you can see when they are pressing with two strikers, he drops, he gets three against two. So he understands the game very well. He drops to the side. So he's such an important player. And I think that's the start and the confidence he gives to his teammates

to Simone to the keeper. He will pass to him. He pounce the ball back. So I think he has shown a great masterclass of how to play as a single number six which nowadays in football. We see less often. We normally see two double six and he controlled the whole midfielder by his home.

He also, Adam of course, had to manage the president of the USA, Donald Trump on the stage, which was interesting. Like, I genuinely didn't know what would happen in that moment. Like, would he be really part of the celebrations? But sort of Roderie kind of, he seemed to sort of greet him warmly and then, but also kind of find a way to let Spain celebrate on their own, which I think they wanted to do, didn't they?

Yeah, it was the politest way I've ever seen anyone quite clearly make clear that the guy should move. But it was a very polite way in which he did it. It was kind of like, come on now, shuffle over. Let us lift the trophy. But the really funny bit was you then had the FIFA president, Gianni, kind of had to run across the stage. And I wasn't sure whether that was because Gianni couldn't have a photo of Trump without him in it, or whether he was trying to also shuffle him away. But in the end, Roderie got to lift the trophy with his teammates, which is exactly what should happen.

Yeah, and that's the thing, says, on a serious note, that is quite important, isn't it, that Spain got to have the trophy lift that they wanted because we didn't know that would happen. Yeah, I mean, you know, you get the trophy you want to share, you know, with your team. You know, I think that moment, you know, as a captain, you want to lift the trophy all together with your teammates and to celebrate it.

And the celebrations will go on for a long time because this is what, five out of the last 10 major tournament, Spain of won? Could you give someone else a go, Cesar? And now the celebrations they are going in Madrid I think you know what I've seen on TV

they are enjoying I'm sure since yesterday after the game and you know after the seven weeks of tournament which is crazy such a long tournament but they fully deserve

and now they deserve to celebrate and then I'm sure they will get some rest and because the league is starting soon it was the top level of football at the demands and we know how it works and if start of the season

some players they don't perform at their level they would be on top of them so now it's time to enjoy to celebrate and to rest because then it's again a very long season just before we let you go just give us something on Louis Silafonte on the head coach of course you played under

who has now won his first two tournaments the Euros and the World Cup and the nation's league and the nation's league well, yeah. Oh yeah, okay. Did you not hear before when I said, can you give somebody else ago? I mean...

No, I mean, you know, it's done an amazing job. You know, we had a long period without trophies since the two euros in a row and the World Cup in between. So, you know, to win the Nations League, they lost one as well final on penalties and to win the Euros and the World Cup, but not only to win. It's the way they have done,

which maybe in the Euro's, they show real power and you could see they were a very dangerous team. In the World Cup at the beginning, people doubted about them, especially after the first draw against Scabird. But, you know, we knew that the players, maybe they were not at 100% at the start of the tournament, but it was a long tournament. So they started building the fitness, you know, they didn't have,

they had very few injuries. They didn't have any issues. So they could execute the game plan through, every game. So they kept going. They kept going. He has been with the subs. Some types they made the difference.

You know, it's such a, I think, very, very well managed, which is not easy. And with this talented player, the quality. And he has done an amazing job because we know how difficult is to win a major tournament. And he has done, especially the Euros and the World Cup and the way he has done, because only one goal concede is amazing. You just said it's been a very long time since you guys had won it from kind of in 2012 to 2020. You don't know what we've been through here in England. It was nothing for you guys.

I don't get it with me. It was nothing with you. Excuse me, there's a Peruvian on the show as well. I was just talking about our country. I know. I just wanted to say, though, Crossy. Crossi, just one thing about Luis de la Fuente, which obviously Cesar knows really well. I think the important thing for everybody to know is that this is a man that comes from Basque Country,

who I remember right after, or no, sorry, right before winning the Euros, I remember him being asked about his philosophy, and he very vehemently just said, look, I come from a grassroots background, our commitment to the people we trust in the youth system, And this isn't a pose. It's not a mirage. It is a conviction. Luis de la Fuente is a manager who embodies everything about representing what Spain is all about. So that's why you have the likes of Unai Simone as is number one,

Michel Merino being a massive factor. Because he has created this journey for a very long time. I mean, he won the championships, the Euros with the under 19s and the under 20s. He is very much a believer in the philosophy and the strategy of a national team through representing the culture of that nation. And that's Spain. I am so jealous in more ways than one of Spain. But even more aggressively so because they have Luis de la Fuente.

I think he's at this very moment. To me, he's the best manager in the game. I respect him so much. Cesar, thank you so much for joining us. I know you've got to go. It's been great to have you on and great to have you with us at the World Cup. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as we've enjoyed having you. Yeah, I've enjoyed it. Great experience. Thanks to the whole BBC team because I really enjoy the experience. So hopefully see you soon and thanks for having me.

Ah, sounds great. Cesar Aspillaquetta, of course, former Chelsea man, former Spain man played with the great Rodry. And under Luis Dilefonte, it's been brilliant all across the World Cup, given us that great insight that you can only really get from somebody who's only just walked out really of that national team dressing room. Right, it's time to talk about the thing that everyone's talking about, guys, and that's Argentina's behaviour. I'm going straight in with the big question, Steph. I've heard a lot of people say Spain won for Spain, and they also won it for football. They did. You don't have to say anything else than that, to be honest, I think.

You see, everybody was supporting Spain, and I probably speak for the majority of all my family, anybody that I see on social media, I think everybody was cheevering on Spain last night more because Spain play football the right way and of course we still hurting off that defeat against Argentina which still hurts now when you even speak about it but I think just in general just the way that Spain approached

that game in comparison to Argentina was what we wanted a World Cup final to be like from Spain's point of view. Do you know Adam as the game went on I started to think on the Monday nightclub I feel like we're going to have to have a discussion around Argentina's behaviour. And for a while I was like, I'm going to sound bitter. It's going to sound so... But then the worse it got, the more it felt like the right thing to do.

And especially with Parades in particular, not only Parades after the full-time whistle. It just got worse and worse, didn't it? Yeah, and it's actually strange. It feels a really long time ago now. But they started the game quite passively. compared to the way that they did against England, where it was kind of within two or three minutes, you kind of had that elbow in the head of Elliot Anderson.

Actually, with Spain, they were a bit more restrained. And there was a couple of fouls in the first half that were bad. There was the McAllister one on Danny Olmo. And there was also the really horrible one by Taglia Fico and Laminia Mal where he kind of fouled him about 15 ways at once, including like a stud down the calf, which was really unpleasant. but they kind of descended into that anarchy as the game went on and I think it was as they got tired

and also as Spain were like if you like compare it to going to the dentist Spain were like the local anaesthetic to Argentina's kind of chaos and they just kind of numbed the chaos really for most of the game until Argentina kind of were finally exhausted and then behind and then, you know, basically bad losers, really, by the end of it. And they were also, I think, exhaustive having the ball played around them. But, you know, I thought the worst bit was really just like facing the other way as Spain went to get up the trophy.

I mean, Spain had even done a guard of honor for the Argentina players, despite the fact that the Argentine players had started a brawl at full time. So Spain had shown grace in victory. But I've never really seen a situation where the kind of the world's, has been united, even when watching a team that possesses, you know, players like Messi and Alvarez, but by the end, it really felt like no one wanted them to win. Do you think American fans felt like that as well? I can't speak for Americans.

Well, you do live in America, so I'm just, where did you watch? Exactly. Where'd you watch the game? I watched the game in a press box, largely surrounded by British people. But to be fact, no, I think, I think. I think even, you know, looking at the comment section on our website on the Athletic today, which, you know, largely an American audience, I think people found, you know, the way they went about it pretty distasteful by the end. And I think it was also, look, I think people are pretty reasonable in the sense that nobody expects everyone to play the same.

Football would be really boring if everyone played like Spain and was everyone was as polite as Spain. You need different styles, you need different approaches, you want channeled aggression, you want an edge. But there was a point there where it just became, it just became kind of gamesmanship and, you know, even Messi, you know, the point where he was trying to get Cucurea sent off. That was the worst bit for me. It was like a toddler appealing to his teacher. That's exactly what I wrote down. Yeah. Miss, like Leo's, Miss Mark, Mark, he said something to me, you need to come in and deal with him.

That was what it was like. Steph, that was the worst bit for me. It was like Leonel Messi has reduced himself to that. And for anyone who doesn't know, it was just as Enzo Fernandez was getting sent off. And then Cocherea kind of like half covers his mouth, but he's smiling at the same time. And not even that kind of arrogant smile that Cocherea can do sometimes. No, they were definitely clutching at straws, weren't at that moment in time. But I agree, I think that Adam's saying in terms of, I think, sportsmanship, I think, if you can't, if you give it, you've got to be able to take it.

And I think that was a prime example of Argentina and not being able to do that. I think when you go back to that game against England and the celebrations in front of people and how they went about it with the sign that they put up, etc. There were some of things that we can speak about, but I think they were just totally outclassed by Spain and I think that frustration was because Spain outplayed them and they couldn't get the ball off them.

They never had a sniff of goal. They had no shots on target, maybe towards the end of the game an extra time with a few headers from corners and set pieces. But they couldn't even get messy to try and kind of get some. some fighting to them. I think they probably took the word literally fight. They're too literal, to be honest. Well, Luis, if that was Cristiano Ronaldo, right, in that final,

and he hadn't been involved in the game at all, as Messi wasn't involved in the game, and then he'd done the whole like teacher-teacher, please send this person into detention or whatever, he would be getting absolutely slaughtered. So, Messi's got to take some serious. criticism for that, surely. Oh, 100%. Ronaldo would have been totally vilified. And look, this is somebody that admires Messi

more so than so many other people that have written a book about him. I consider him as the greatest player ever. But there was a massive lack of leadership yesterday from Lionel Messi, not just in that moment, but also, you know, to what Adam was alluding to about everybody turning their back when Spain was winning.

You're the captain. You need to stand up and say, no, look, like this is emotional. And granted, it's emotional. It's his last World Cup. Everybody's being nostalgic about it. But Messi at that moment should have stood up with his teammates and said, no, stand up and look at the winners and respect it. Just like in 2022, the French had to do with us.

So I was very, you know, saddened by that. And I'll just answer that question that you asked that I'm earlier, by the way, Crossie and Steph alluded to it regarding the family. I am married to an American woman who only got herself into football because of me. and year after year she's had to deal with Aston Villa and England and Peru and all this stuff. So she's been fully invested now in this World Cup. She watched it at home. I was at MetLife.

And every single minute a text came from her saying, I explicit hate Leandro Perez more than life itself. Then the next text. I hate Argentina so much. They don't deserve this. What do they do it? Et cetera, et cetera. So the hate is universal.

undoubtedly 100%. And I'll just finish with this. I'm South American and it's a universal or it's a list of continental known thing for South Americans that in many ways the strengths and the powers

of Argentina, their relentless objective to try and win no matter what. This like hunger to just win no matter the obstacle. It both comes out out of a little bit of jealousy because South Americans wish they had that kind of tenacity, but it's also their Achilles Hill.

because they cross the line every single time where they don't respect the game. They don't respect the fundamentals of what it's like to respect the opponent. I mean, I was literally sitting feet away from Argentinian fans who were shouting horrific things at Laminia Mao and Nico Williams

every time he touched the ball. It was like, it's this horrible way of try to approach something when the game's not going your way. And if there's anybody that should be saying, no, we're going to play no matter what and if we lose, we'll still respect them. the players and they do the complete opposite.

They antagonize the situation more and more and that's just not acceptable. The part of it that I sometimes struggle with Steph here is that the whole thing around, you know, everybody has a right try and win the way they want to win. But I wonder if that only really applies to smaller nations or smaller clubs when they don't have the quality of player. Like, for example, when Burnley go to Liverpool, I think it was Kloppier of Liverpool. Oh, you're going to say, Sunda? No, I wouldn't dare with you in the room. You know, but the only reason I mention it is I remember the game.

I remember Burnley, I think it was under Sean Dych going and getting a result at Liverpool. And I think it was Juergen Klop, the manager at the time, kind of kicking off a little bit because Burnley had not come to try and play or whatever. You hear it from lots of managers. That's just one example. But this is different, isn't it? Because if you've got Leonel Messi and Enzo Fernandez and Laotaro Martinez and Julian Alvarez, you can't, surely you can't approach a game like that and try and win it that way. I don't know if that's just me being naive. It just feels wrong.

I think it's so hard because obviously they were current World Cup champions as of yesterday. and I think in terms of how they've approached games for a number of years is the way that they've approached it and how their culture is within Argentina. But I think as a fan and someone that watches these players regularly every single week for club, they are so talented. I think then players that you named, specifically Messi.

We know what Messi is about in terms of probably the world's greatest player to ever have played and to see him on a stage not really get the ball that he deserves to be able to have an influence on the game was because of the tactics of Argentina. I think kind of what you said about Bernie v Liverpool, I think that's because Berlin know that they can't reach that level at that time. But say, for example, if they'd stayed in the Premier League,

they would go a game with different players and probably the style would adapt, whereas I still think that at this moment in time we are seeing Argentina play the same way. And yeah, it has been effective to a point, but I think when you get to the crux of the highest level of football and you're playing against the best teams, unfortunately, when that line's crossed,

teams pick you apart, they outplay you, they're from a mentality point of view, they're staying within the game and they've been able to control a game that, Argentina wanted a game that was full of transitions, full of stoppages, full of fouls, but they couldn't get anywhere near Spain to be able to do that.

And, yeah, I think for me, when you see the likes of probably Alvarez being really, really frustrated, Enzo Fernandez becoming this different type of play that we don't really see week in, week out of Chelsea and Messi not really having a hold in the game that he should be able to have. Never mind his age, he's still able to do special things, and we've seen that a lot over this tournament. I think it becomes disappointing from a football point of view.

I suppose the other part of that, Adam, is literally four years ago, they did win the World Cup in a totally different way, unless I massively remember that with rose-tinted glasses. But the final was not like this final, to put it mildly. No, it was a different game. But there were moments in that tournament where they were, you know, they were unpleasant, you know. And I remember the game against the Netherlands,

which they won and there was some real needle in that game. And by the way, sometimes that is, you know, I found that incredibly compelling in the England game the other night. And I don't think we should sort of get to the point where you don't have any of that edge in it. The problem is, and to be fair, I mean, Scoloni after the game basically said, we couldn't play them at football.

You know, that was the gist of what he said. And I actually think Argentina overperformed in reaching the final. And they were largely bailed out by the genius of Messi. But a lot of those players are past their best, kind of in their early 30s. And a lot of them are actually quite limited or injury, or reckless. You know, players like Lysandro Martinez, you know,

sadly injured in the first half, but him and Romero, they're picking up yellow cards. You're bringing on kind of 38, 39-year-old Ottomendi. You know, the midfield, I think, is pretty limited outside of Enzo Fernandez, and then he goes and gets himself sent off. They don't really have a winger in the entire squad. So they didn't look like a very coherent team to me,

and I thought it was kind of, As much as we're talking, I guess if I'm just providing some balance, if we're talking about kind of this camaraderie and bond and this band of brothers, that is probably what took them as far as they got within the tournament, but it was also what became so unappealing within the final itself when it went too far. I think that leans into something quite important, Luis, actually, as well. And it's sort of Britain is probably the good way to finish kind of talking about the World Cup final. It is almost back where we started around this idea

about Spain needing to win it, inverted commas, four football. Is that what last night was about, Luis, was crowning the best team in the world, the best football team in the world. And I think a lot of people would have found it difficult to watch Argentina lifting that trophy because of how they played the final.

Yep, definitely. Definitely. This is, I mean, Spain absolutely intoxicated Argentina. They didn't have a short on target, cross-y. Like, you know, you can't win the World Cup when you have those kinds of, numbers, nearly 70% possession. I mean, I'm not kidding when I say the moment Argentina got the ball, Spain recovered it like that immediately. Like Argentina were lost.

Leonel Scalonia was watching him in the silence. He really, what he said in the press conference is true. They had no idea how to match the genius of Spain. And then just to, you know, to echo Adam what he was talking about regarding like, you know, the path for Argentina to get here. You know, you got to look at this journey for Argentina. And it was, you know, you're going to look at this journey for Argentina and it was, you know, when you're talking about you're trying to win the World Cup final and you're a top contender, your path was very doable, very doable. The group stages, I mean, you know, they were what they were. Cabo Verde produced an absolute moment of magic and Argentina only won three two in that one. We all know about the Egypt situation and the

dramatics of that one. The Switzerland thing, it was won all before the red card, of course, for brilliant bolos. And England, which is obviously the toughest challenger, England shot themselves in the foot in that match and Argentina just pounced as a result of it. So once you enter the final and you face Spain, a Spanish side who just defeated France. Everybody voted for France in that game and they didn't realize how good Spain were going to be. This was definitely a final where I think Argentina, Lionel Messi, Scaloni, everybody realized, yeah, we're facing a completely different type of monster here and we have no idea what to do. So let's revert to what we do best, which is be antagonizers, physical.

and over physical and do some horrific things, specifically in the midfield, specifically the likes of Leandro Paredes, the right team won, and it's the right thing to do to vote for Spain in this one because they were the ones that were trying to play football and nothing else. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire

from posting videos? On good, bad billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber Mr. Beast made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. even recreated squid games all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000.

So is he a philanthropist re-shaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on good bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Five live sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Shep around we do.

Lives on BBC sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Ball by ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge one. Chis, horse. Settle down. Sorry, mate.

Cricket on five-life sport. Oh, I've lived in every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds. The football day at the People World Cup 2026. With Steve Crosman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Let's talk about England's men's head coach for the next few. minutes because obviously England finished third best

results since 1966 as we keep being told 6-4 win over France at Steph Horton the athletics Adam Crafton and Louis Miguel Etchigarai all with us on the Monday nightclub Steph does that game result occasion shift to the dial on Thomas Tuchel

do you think and I mean you might have been very supportive of him anyway even after the Argentina game I think like a lot of people I think the Argentina game I think it was we were just disappointing with that last 20 minutes, 30 minutes of the game where we got ourselves in a great, great position, and we just seemed to go back to what we've done previously,

which is to go back and try and hold on the lead, which did work in a few times in the World Cup, Mexico being won, but you're against a different opposition. You've got a chance to really kind of propel yourself into a final, and the approach should have been a bit different. So I understand why there's so many question marks around Thomas Tugel, because I think you see the talent that we've got on the bench, you see Saka's performance against France in the bronze medal match,

which I've got a different perspective on that because I feel as though the pressure is totally off because either way you either gain something or your back. You've played in that game, haven't you? Yeah, and my perspective as a player is that for us, that bronze medal match was the turning point in my career was to be able to go and win a medal for England that we've never done for a long, long time

and to have that opportunity to play against Germany, which was one of the best teams in the tournament, in the world at the time, to be able to have another chance of potentially getting a medal was something that really motivated us as a team because we'd never done that before and we'd never expected to do it. So when people say the bronze medal matches are nothing game, it actually riled me up a little bit because I was like, to experience that and to know what that feels like to win was an amazing experience.

And I get that when you're so close to making a World Cup final, which is everybody's dream as a footballer when you're playing for a national team it's hard to obviously get them emotions back to where you need them to be to go again which that's why the game was 6'4 because both teams you can see that it was like okay those players that never really played

will go and play and be expressive because there isn't really that much pressure if you lose because really the biggest disappointment's been three or four days before because you've not made the final so for me I understand the question marks around two goals just because of that last 20, 30 minutes, how we manage the game, the substitutions,

how do you change the players mentality, which I think I would never blame the players, but I think that's something that we have to take a little bit of onus as a player on the pitches, actually. We're dropping deeper and deeper. We needed someone to have a little bit of an out, whether that was too cool, making a sub, to put Rashford in the Nine or Watkins in the Nine,

just to run the channels, just to have a little bit of an outball. But I think as a collective, we could have all done better in that 30 minutes because we've experienced before. It's not something we haven't experienced in a competition before.

But I'm looking who else would we have if he was to be replaced unless Pep Guardiola goes yeah, I want to manage England and then I'd be like, okay, yeah, we have to go for it because he's the greatest manager in the world.

Apparently he's in talks with Italy that I've seen suggested today. Which is crazy, yeah? I have to say, I've just read that out. I don't know if that's actually happening but Sky Italia has said, But if he's available, then I'm like, as an English person, you would want your team to play similar to Spain

because that's how they would play. That is just Spain's culture, how he's managed previously. But Tuchel's got potentially two years to save what he has in this England role. And I'm very much for him staying, if I'm being honest. I think, Louise, there's an argument that he somehow, Thomas Tuchel threaded a remarkably difficult needle in that France game. because going into it, my thought process was there is no good result here for Thomas Tuchel. Because let's say Cobi Manu plays and is brilliant, well, that's a negative for Tuchel because he didn't play him.

And in the end he was injured so he couldn't play anyway. Then you have Bukai Osaka, who also was left out against Argentina. He scores a hat trick. But actually, he does in the round seem to be in a broadly better position than he was before that game. And I wasn't sure there was a way for him to do that. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's part of the reason of why we were marveling at the high scoreline. Had it been at 1-0, I think probably the conversation would have been different.

Had it been a different type of narrative where, like, France woke up in the second half, because they really won't. They were playing a 2% battery charge. Like, they just were not feeling it until the halftime when Didi DeShom just said, Lats, this is my final game. Does anybody remember that? And then France went out there and did it. But England withstood that and still came out on top.

And I think it was the type of performance where everybody saw, see, this is an English side that can do something. Now, there's also the lost conversation where fans can say, where was this against Argentina, which I think is a lost cause because it's a totally different kettle of fish. I also want to say this, by the way, England's journey in this World Cup has been one of the toughest. I think people don't understand the extremities and the difficulties and the efforts. that it took for them to win at Azteca Stadium. And then sort of like, you know, in the space of about 48 hours, go to a completely different type of climate against Erland and Norway in Miami.

And then suddenly get ready as well for Argentina. I mean, it's a very difficult journey that England had to do. I think the Argentina match was a combination of Thomas Tuchel making some really bad decisions right after going one-nothing up. But it was also, I think, I saw an example of a team that was exhausted, that was really just tired. And Argentina, as we have mentioned, went through an easier journey. But I think going back to your point here, I think that Thomas Ducco will look at that third bronze match and say, there is something here. We have just beaten France 6'4.

We can play without Harry Kane. We can perhaps evolve without him. We can do many things, I think, specifically because of this young talent. And I think that just like Steph said, now it's Thomas Duckel's chance to really prove what he can do in these next two years. But there is something here. And I think that victory,

scoring six goals against France, I think it's a great testament to say we can build something of finally making us champions. Luis, do you want to say anything else before you're done? Because this is your last World Cup hit with us. It's been brilliant having you with us from the diner in Manhattan all the way to Sunny Salford. Yeah, no, I want to thank everybody.

I've still got my 50% discount at the Bobby's diner. Thanks to you all. I keep saying that, yeah, I'm a BBC employee. I'm going to keep saying that till the day I die. It's been an absolute wonderful, you know, experience. As everybody knows, I'm Peruvian, but I was raised in England. I consider England to be a very important part of my life. And just going along with this World Cup right for you all has been absolutely wonderful.

And right after this taping, Krosi and everybody, I'm going to take a long nap and then never talk to anybody ever again. I appreciate it all. It's been amazing. Louise, it's been lovely having you with us. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you, everybody. Luis Miguel Echigaray, who's been fantastic, been with us throughout the World Cup.

The argument, Adam, about England and future when it comes to Thomas Tuchel is maybe the fact that this was meant to be the World Cup, or people thought it might be the World Cup, where elite club managers really sort of put their stamp on the international game with Tuchel and with Ancelotti and maybe Bielsa would have a great World Cup. and there are more names besides that. In the end, we had two absolute international specialists in the World Cup final, and that is a point that people might make when it comes to who's in charge of England going forward. Yeah, and it kind of makes you wonder a bit about PEP as well. I mean, I think he's an incredibly amazing and adaptable coach, so I think he'd be capable of doing it. But it does make you think again slightly about, you know,

maybe England kind of had the right guy, you know, prior, you know, in terms of what Southgate did and where he was able to take England to, I think with two, it's just difficult because, yes, third place is their best performance in 60 years. Yes, if you'd have said before the tournament, that if you'd lose against Argentina by a single goal in the last minute of a semi-final, you know, that's not a bad outcome, really. But it just felt so winnable.

And it just felt so avoidable. You know, what happened in the game. I mean, I was watching it with my American partner who does not watch much soccer at all. And he was there kind of about, with about 15 minutes to go, just basically being like, why do they keep letting the best player in the world

have loads of the ball, like 30 yards from goal? It's so simple. Right? And sometimes it's like that fresh eyes of like someone who doesn't watch football that much, just saying like, why do they keep letting Messi have the ball? and not like have anyone fast to run up to run the other way.

And then, um, not to compare my boyfriend to Donald Trump, but then Trump came out in, in Trump Tower on Friday. And he was like, they turned Harry Kane. He's a great attacker into a defender. That's not the best idea. Um, and that's kind of what happened with England in the last half hour. So I think there's always going to be those regrets and there's always going to be that sense of, you know, I think Tuchel really for the next two years,

every time he does an extensive interview. pre-match, you know, like when they do that kind of 10, 15 minutes in kind of a darkened room with a bill of like a camera on, it is going to be going back to that game and that half hour and will you do the same again? And it feels like the only way he can really remedy it is by them winning a semi-final. 2028 for the men, stuff.

Look, I think we're always going to be there or thereabouts because of the players. I actually, I think for me, when I look at, Spain at this moment in time because of the experience that they have had winning and they know how to win and you look at the players that they have from a age perspective

you look at Laminia Mal you look at Kabasi you look at even Pedri Gavi in terms of their ages they're going to be two more years experience they'll have played a lot more football at the highest level but I think we have them players as well it's going to be so interesting how two girls are going to develop

this squad because look we talk about Harry Kane unbelievable player unbelievable captain goal scoring out of this world but we need an answer to when he is

and potentially at his best and when then moments come where instead of him being deeper how do we get the best out of someone that can then go and produce a little bit of a threat at the other end when we're trying to see out a game

for example so I think we've got work to do but I think we're in a great position of course it's disappointing this World Cup because like what Adam said, in terms of what Argentina produced in that semifinal, it wasn't their best, but we didn't really take advantage of that. So for us, we have to learn, we have to reflect, we have to try and get better, and it'll be interested to see how that squad is going to be shaped over the next two years. Right, that's your World Cup then.

Steph, Adam, thank you very much indeed. Steff Horton, cheers Adam and Adam Kraften from the Athletic, who is out in New York. The Football Daily is going to be taking a short break now before we start the new football season. in the meantime, we'll bring you some of our other podcasts on this feed, including Karel Prince lie detector. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is Five Live Sports. It's all right to the lights and fit and a floor. To ball him.

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