Football Daily - World Cup: Scotland's Fate Still In Their Hands

Episode Date: June 20, 2026

Scotland suffered a narrow defeat to Morocco, but their World Cup hopes remain firmly alive.Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith are joined by Pat Nevin, fresh from the stadium, to reflect on an encouraging performance from Steve Clarke's side. What does the result mean for Scotland's hopes of reaching the knockout stages, and what can they take into a huge game against Brazil?South American football journalist Tim Vickery joins the pod to discuss the mood around Brazil after their win over Haiti and assess their chances of ending a 24-year wait for World Cup glory.Plus, the team react to the USA reaching the knockout stages, and Lloyd takes to the pitch for a football match of his own in Los Angeles.

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download the wise app today tease and sees apply the football day at the people world cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith Live from LA. Hello, you're listening to the Football Daily with me, Rick Edwards, and... Lloyd Griffith. That's right.

Coming up, we're going to be speaking to Pat Nevin, who was at the Scotland game. Tim Vickery is going to join us to talk Brazil, Haiti. The scores from overnight, USA beat Australia 2-0, and are the second teams qualified for the next round. Scotland lost 1-0 to Morocco. Brazil beat Haiti 3-0. And at the end of all that, Turkey have been eliminated after being beaten by 10-man Paraguay.

All the highlights and scores are available on the BBC. sport website and that. So it's yet another big day of football, not just for the top level internationals. You also played Bright and early this morning. Yeah, how was it? Bottom level internationals. Even that is probably stretching it, isn't it?

Oh, thank you. 845, played a nine-a-side game in South L.A. with Max Rushden and with Danny Sipriani, the ex-Igland rugby player, yeah. Why was he there? Did you know who was going to be there? No, I didn't know who's going to be there. He was on our team, lives in L.A. now.

let me tell you Rick he was absolutely fantastic of course he was he was so good at football and let me guess was he really fit yeah oh and he's really athletic as well

he was on he was scoring unbelievable goals setting up people he was talking to me like he was talking to me like manages me and I just I loved it

and how was your personal performance I mean oh gosh no no no no no I went up for a little bit but I wasn't getting the service I felt like Ronaldo do you know I mean

it felt like no I wanted to pass to me past it yeah no I'm not past it but it just no one wanted to pass to me. And then at the back, I don't know. So you are a goalkeeper? Yeah, I am a goalkeeper.

Went in goal for the first seven minutes. I got a bit of my near post. If I'm honest, not great more than a football, but I enjoyed it. I wore my new cleats, which I bought yesterday. Oh, yes. A one hour detour, quite boring for me. It was about 35 minutes, just bought some new boots.

I don't know why it took so well. Just say which are the cheapest ones in my size? I'll have them. I did try and four pairs of boots. Yes, you did. For effectively one game. And it cost me 80 pounds. Absolutely human.

But yeah, no, it's nice. And it's just nice to get out and play with, you know, friends. And hopefully you'll come, but it was quite early this morning. It was a bit so early for me. You do breakfast. But you went to Barry's? I went to Barry's. And did the old boot camp.

That's great. Absolutely abysmal. So we now are aching. Like, there's no tomorrow. Yes, we are. We were very keen to go and watch the USA game with American fans. And we've got a mutual friend who's working out here. And he said, right, I've picked a bar.

It's going to be amazing. We turned up. And as we were driving, up we could see that there was a huge queue outside this bar to get in and it was like properly properly rammed it was quite weird because when when our friend got there at the time that we'd mutually agree to meet him there which was roughly 11 we weren't there because you weren't ready so the reason why you'd been at barris you'd been at barris but then also you just I'm just so mooching around you're just mooching about in your vest I like to yes it wasn't

a vest a little treat free I I like to turn up sort of on the whistle really like Americans do Yeah, and unfortunately. Every American had the same idea. Yeah. The queue was round the corner. Yeah, we couldn't get in. And this is actually a sign of how much Americans are getting into this. Now, every other place in that area that had a screen was also packed.

Yeah. Inside and out as well. Inside and out. Could not find a spot. And we ended up watching the USA game in a small Italian restaurant on a very small screen that was slightly too far away. But the takeaway here is that Americans are properly getting into it. They might not know all their players or who their coaches, as we found out today. But they're going for it.

And they're going for it. They're Americanising it. And they were chancing, as you'd want at the end, in the bar, USA, USA. I didn't join him. I think we've got to start with Scotland. What a second half performance from them. Let's bring in Pat Nevin. Pat, you're at the game.

You're back at your hotel now. Have you had a little bit of chance to digest and reflect on what you saw from the Scottish team? Yes, I've had a lot of time to think about it, and I feel exactly the same way as I feel before. I was feeling before. I'm a bit disappointed, but in reality, here's the odd thing. I thought after the first game, Scotland, I was really disappointed, although we won. I was disappointed. Scotland got beat this time.

I'm really proud of them. It's just weirdest thing about it. football because I think the team played well after the first 25 minutes in which we were totally destroyed and we looked as if we were playing a different sport from them who were so far behind but slowly surely clawed away back into the game and by the end of the second half i actually think Scotland deserved to get the point that they needed out of it and I think we're a wee but unlucky although having said that to be fair we created the square or nothing. We didn't create any chances at all and we have to be honest with that.

Yes, that's true. But the way that the kind of momentum shifted, the pressure that Morocco were under in that second half, particularly once Steve Clark bought Ben Cannon Doak on, when he bought Lyndon Dykes on, suddenly that just the whole kind of structure of the game, the nature of the game changed. And it was really exciting and Scotland were pushing and you thought, I think they're going to do it. And recent history, we've, Stevie Clark we have. That's the thing. And all the history of Scotland trying to get through

and these sort of things and I've lived through enough of it. I've played through some of it. Late goals, heartbreak. We find new, weird, complicated and exciting ways to fail. And we've done it for years, right? And the reality is

we've not quite got over it, okay. And we've kind of got that feeling that we were that nation. And then of late, we've kind of changed it around. And Steve Clark's managed to get these strange ways of qualifying. That we, you know, we score three fantastic goals against Denmark. And we're not the better team in the night, but we have this magical night to actually get through.

And so we've kind of changed that narrative. But this felt a wee bit like where we're back in that narrative again, where, you know, we're not quite getting there. We're not getting the break of the ball, the little bits of luck that we need. But it's still up. until the very last game and it's one of those ones and this is the weirdness of it i've got feeling we'll end up playing brazil now and we'll play brazil and say we'll lose

one nil to brazil right we'll be in three points we'll have to sit and wait for about three four or five days to find out if we're actually true or not it's horrendous and it's going to be down to the last kick of the ball i mean i remember talked to somebody recently and say what is the actual worst time ever happened to Scotland where we blew it by a goal. Right it's your fault, right? I'm blaming you specifically, right?

Because you may not remember it, but it was England and you managed to, you were up a 3-0 against the Dutch in the Euros and then lost one late goal. Do you remember this, yeah. And that knocked Scotland out. And that is the problem

we've got, we find, as I say, new interesting, exciting ways to come. Completely and utterly blow it. I just hope it's not one then, because the way we play tonight, I don't think we deserve it. Technically we're not the best team in the world, but in reality,

I love the way that we kind of fought back into it against one of the top teams on the planet. Did you think that John McGinn was a bit unlucky not to get a penalty early on in the second half? Because in real time, when we were watching it, I thought there was nothing in it. And then on the replay, I was like, well, he's definitely,

he's not got the ball, there's definitely contact. I don't know if you have watched it back. I have, right. So it's one that I think it could be the core moment of the game, and I think you're right to bring it up. So as a forward, we spend a lot of time getting into those positions in the box. My thoughts are, if I'm one in one with you, and I get the ball beyond you,

and then you're trying to tackle me and you take you hit me. I don't care where you hit me. You're not allowed to hit me when I'm going through, and I've got control of the ball and I'm on the ball. Then that's a penalty kick. It'll be a free kick outside the box. It'll be a penalty inside the box. Now, I'll be honest with it would be soft.

It would be a soft one. Yeah, yeah. And it would also be honest with you, if you don't give it, the VAR ain't going to change it in the modern world. And we have to live in the modern world. That's kind of what I thought. If the ref had given it on the pitch, it's not getting overturned.

But if he's not giving it, the VAR aren't calling him over probably nailed absolutely nilled and that's a modern game and I know a lot of Scotland fans have been furious and angry and we know what it's like

you know what it's like in social media quite often you know people are very balanced you know and they're like a nuanced debate or indeed not and you're not going to get that but in reality that is where we are just now and you have to remember I don't know how close people everyone who was listening

was watching that game it was actually stunning the referee was living in the past in a good way I really liked it the amount of people were you know that thing where someone bumps into a wee bit and you crumple

right and normal human beings don't do that it's like you're walking along the street and like Oxford straight and somebody bumps into you and you fall down you go ah ah people don't right except footballers do well the referee thinks along with me in this one okay this right

this referee tonight. Now he didn't get everything right but he went. He did let most things go and it was quite good and it was good and in the end that's the penalty in reality. I know a lot of Scottish people are furious with them. I can't be really because I think he was a referee at a little that sort of thing to go on and remember and I hate being balanced here and all that sort of thing but Scotland played against Haiti. Haiti are still furious because there's a pretty clear penalty that. that they should have got. And also hate it with easily the better side as well. So in balance, if you'd have said to us,

we win the first game, we narrowly lose the second one. We've got Brazil coming up and we've got a chance if we don't win or we lose or sort of 1-0 or something, we'll still go through. And a very good chance. Or else if we still get a point against Brazil,

which is not beyond the bounds of possibility the way we play, we'll go through. Probably take that. Pat, we've got to talk about the national anthem. Listen to it before the game. I mean, as an English person, I can't really get emotional about a Scottish national anthem, but cry.

But we managed it. Oh, we managed it. Goose bumps absolutely everywhere. Here on all parts of your body, standing on end. What was it like? What was it like in the stadium? And then, what was it like when they scored after 71 seconds? Right, well, the wonderful thing about the Scottish national anthem,

and it is really quite moving. It's a beautiful song. It is pretty, pretty superb when you're there when it's done right. The Scotland against Denmark one recently was extraordinary. Both games here in Foxborough were utterly and completely

amazing. And you can see all the locals who are there listening going, wow, this is amazing. And you see actually the Moroccans thinking, well we've got to react to that, you know. And they're showing, and they're going back.

And it is, I have. I hate being so predictable, but it is spine tingling. It is spine tingling every single time. And there was a lot of passion to it tonight. And it's something, again, the Scots are very proud of. But boy, was that punctured quickly. As soon as he scored that goal after 71 seconds. Somebody said that to me tonight.

It was a weird thing. He said, like, if you take the first 71 seconds out of that game, who's the better team overall? It kind of might have been Scotland, actually. for 20 minutes we were battered at the same 25 minutes battled out of sight we had the end of the first quarter because of the first

quarter it exactly makes me shudder as well into that it was changed a bit and slowly but surely after that Scotland grew into it and I don't think there's much I doubt that Scotland were the better side in the second half although underlining

we had a possibility of a penalty or two and one great chance that we managed to spoil for ourselves because it was kind of glossed over I don't know how much you saw of it but the ball was played over on the right-hand side

I think it was going to kick and McTominy was coming in to head at and Lyndon Dites got in his way and headed it past and it's one of those ones where it doesn't it look like a great chance because London puts it past and he's stretching for it London not there

McDowmany scores In terms of the way that Steve Clark set up in that first particularly first 15 minutes, I was feeling quite fearful that it was going to be an absolute route. But having spoken to people before and seen the way that Scotland play, they don't mind a bit of that kind of rope a dope, when you're up against it, up against it, and then gradually grow into the game, and then particularly towards the end, really start putting the hammer down.

And so selection-wise, was it correct what Steve Clark did? And when he bought Ben Gannadokin, when he bought Lyndon Dijkin, did you think? Yeah, remember Ben Garandot makes a big difference because he's unfairly quick, really unfairly fast, right? But he ran out of gas in the first game and he was cramping up. So if you're going to use that guy,

use him when he can be most effective. When's that? It's when the opposition are tiring. It's kind of not quite obvious and I know the fans don't like to hear it, but if you've got 45 minutes or 40 minutes in you, make it the last 40 so that you can have a massive effect on it

and again he almost had the effect and I almost got through tactically I don't know I would have maybe done it slightly different you know I would have we played with a back four and right can we get a wee bit technical for a minute is that all right

alright quite stupidly technical right okay so please do Hakemi was incredible tonight what he did he did a tactical thing tonight it was pretty special you don't see in the modern He don't see generally right.

So Clark could put it out that Kearantyerni was to play a little bit further forward so that he would be basically man-to-man marking Hakemi. To stop Vukimi, he is that good. I know he's a fullback, but he's that incredible, right? So Hacquimmy spots this after about three minutes after the goal.

Hakemi's playing left wing. Hacquimis then playing centre-forward, which is exactly what I would do when I was man to man-man-marked, sometimes in my career. Okay, you're marking me. Good, I'm going to take you for a wee walk now. I'm going to take you whatever you don't want to be.

I'm going to go and play on the left wing even though you're the other side of the pitch. And of course, what you do in football is you pass players on. But there was no right time to pass that player on. It created utter confusion in the Scottish back line. They were having kittens all over the place because Hakemi was just disappearing. Now, they were clever because what they did is they dropped by the sixth, the young lad who's a great player. He dropped him back in and sat back and asked the opt to play right back.

It was technically brilliant. It was really good. But it took Hakemi to be clever enough to do that and to do all these things. And it utterly confused Scotland. And then at that point in time, Stevie Clark says, okay, this is when you hand on. And that's how we changed it.

And then we got it right. And you when the hand on happened, right? If it goes that far in, you pass it to that player, etc. And from that moment on, Scotland grew, but it was too late already. Given that, like they will go into that final game against Brazil feeling good about themselves.

I'm sure they will watch that game back and Steve Clark will say, look at how you played against a team ranked seven or eight or whatever it is in the world in that second half. You had them on the ropes. Yeah, absolutely. He will say that. I would imagine that's his first line

when he eventually got in. He was a bit miffed before he got in, by the way, It's a bit miffed. Yeah, yeah. And that's another conversation. I feel sorry for, after a game, as a player, as a manager, the last thing you want to do, the very last thing you want to do unless you've won,

is talk to anyone. You want to get a debrief, you want to get it sorted, you want to be with your people. That's a positive debate for another day. But he'll go ahead and say that. I mean, he won't need to say it too often, because they'll know. They'll feel it themselves. We kind of had them. We were causing them also.

of problems. They were throwing everything. They were lumping the ball along. I mean, I don't know what the Moroccan for. Ev it is, but there was a bit of that. There wasn't quite a bit of that. Get the big lads on. Exactly. And also,

the goal keep we went down with cramp, we have about five minutes to go, because he's the one player that you have to stop the game for, right? Explain to me how you can have cramp if you have not had a save to make. Talk me through that one.

I don't think I can, Pat. I don't think I can. I think it's a bit of the old dark arts. I think possibly so. I think you could be right. The lovely thing is, again, this referee that everybody can't stand. He just went over and talked to him and basically said, you've got 30 seconds to get up and walked away.

Yeah. And he did. He was very firm. So Scotland leave Boston now. The Scotland fans leave Boston. The fans are going to miss Boston. Boston are going to miss the fans. I mean, it's been the most beautiful kind of love story going on,

like multi-part love story. It must have been a joy to be part of it, Pat. Well, you have to remember if Scotland fans are tarts. And what we did is we had the same with Germans, right? We had the same in Germany. We kind of make everyone fall in love it. It's kind of a little bit. And that's exactly what happened here as well.

I was doing, I was DJing last night. before a gig in Boston. And I actually laughed out loud at one point in time to show you how ridiculous this was. So I walked in and the bouncers were outside and the bouncers were in love with the people who were coming in. I have never known that in my life.

That's never happened. It's never happened. Let's be fair about this, man. It's just not happening. And there was two security guys. Before the band had come back, came off at the end and I was going to take over the DJing again.

I was up with the two big security men at the back. And they were like, everybody's mate. They were letting everyone through. We were going, oh, can we help you here? I'm thinking, they're going to start buying us drinking. This is security that I'm doing this. And the security guy came here goes, you know, you guys, I'm not trying

to boss an accent, but you guys, it's incredible, but we have one real problem. It's been a big problem with you guys over here. And I said, what's that? I said, we have ran out of beer in every single pub. This is a real problem for us. Well done everyone.

Well done everyone. Finally, Pat, hunch, gut, whatever you want to go with, our Scotland for the first time going to get out of a group. I heard the stat today in the way back when we did a start. And the stat is from the Opreta's supercomputer

that currently our percentage chances of getting through are 76%. Which... Bite your hand off of that, Pat. Take it. What I did say to him being slightly less positive, very Scottish about this,

see if it's still 76% at the end of all the games at the second round. I'll listen, but it might not be that. Look, we've got a chance, and if we put on a decent performance against Brazil and say you lost 1-0, the likelihood is we still go through. So for all my chat about we find new and exciting ways to fail, I'm still hopeful we've got a chance, yeah.

Pat, absolutely pleasure to talk to you as always, and we'll chat you again soon. In the Ranger Rover Sport, performance is more than a promise. It's something you feel on every drive. With the choice of powerful mild hybrid and plug-in hybrid engines, Range River Sport responds instantly, bringing unbridled power and precise handling. It's a perfect balance. Explore more at Rangerover.ca. Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe.

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download the wise app today tease and sees apply five life sports my favorite world cup moment it's the first world cup I properly remember watching Argentina 78. The ticker tape, Mario Kempes, Ari Hahn's scoring goals from miles out, and always one of my favourite World Cup moments, Archie Gemmell's great goal for Scotland against the Dutch. What makes the World Cup such a special tournament is the atmosphere, the colour,

it is a meeting of the nations and of people who love football. The People World Cup 2026. Listen on BBC Sounds. People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffin. Listen on BBC Sounds. The other game in Scotland's group, Brazil, Haiti, Brazil winning 3-0. Let's bring in Tim Vickory, who is the only person you want to speak to about South American football, frankly. This Brazil side are a bit of an enigma, Tim. How are people feeling in Brazil about them?

Yeah, they are. They're an enigma shrouded in a mystery. wrapped in a I don't know what they've been playing whackamol for a while now one problem appears and they solve it creating another problem for themselves

it's been a very strange buildup very very strange buildup everyone is feeling much much better about things now the campaign is underway with the first victory but if I may let me take you down because we're going to

a copper America played in the United States who was actually 10 years ago the second game was against Haiti they won 7-1 the first game they drew nil-nil to Ecuador and the third game that they lost 1-0 to Peru and were eliminated in the group phase so that tells you a little bit

about the dangers of reading too much into rabbit killing um Coon you got a couple of goals viny junior got a goal they would be expected to beat Haiti. But did you see more of what Brazilian fans wants to see from them? I don't think that the idea of the team

in the first game against Morocco made a great deal of sense. And I feel badly for Iggyzegu because I think he was hung out to dry a little bit. Because one of the ideas of the team is that Vinny, Vinicius Jr. stays up. and why not? You don't want him running back.

He stays up. So the thing that Mateo's Cunia does is he will sacrifice himself. He will get behind the line of the ball. He will cover that left side when Brazil don't have possession, enabling Vinny to stay up. Now, against Morocco, when they didn't play Cunia,

they played Igor Chago, which was a surprise. No one saw that coming. It meant that there was no one in that space. And Morocco's out ball, and the reason for their first half dominance, was that they could always play the ball into Hakimi, the attacking right back, and he always had a corridor in which to run. So the team simply didn't make sense.

And Igor Chago ends up carrying the can for that, but I think that's more of the thought of the coach than it is of the player. they looked far better balanced with Konya in there but as as that result from 10 years ago might seem to indicate Haiti are kind of perfect opponents because they don't defend particularly well and especially they don't particularly

well in that space between their right wingback and their right centre back which is exactly where Vinny is and it's exactly where Brazil's three first half goals came from so it steps in the right direction, yes, and it's a morale boost. And if Ancelotti isn't feeding the pressure and just raises his eyebrow, Roger Moore style and bats all the critises them away, you can be

sure that the players are feeling the pressure. They go on social media, they see things that are being said about them, and they will be feeling the pressure. So this is a terrific morale booster, and it more or less ensures their qualification for the knockout stage. and I think Ancelotti all along has felt that the group phase is a bit of a phony wall and the thing will start once a knockout games come. There wasn't much urgency in the second half from Brazil because they could have really put the hammer down and they didn't. Yeah, a little bit surprising.

Because given the fact that Morocco and Brazil have drawn the first game, it would sing that first place in this group will be. come down to goal difference. That's likely now because you would certainly expect Morocco to beat HACC and Brazil now have a goal advantage of two but Morocco could well overtake that given that Brazil are facing a Scottish side which will be fighting for their lives in the competition. Is a conclusion from that that Ancelotti is not really concerned about first or second place? That is one possible conclusion but he is proving very very very very hard to read.

The side that took the field in the opening game against Morocco, no one, no one in the Brazilian press picked that side. No one thought, that was a surprise to everyone. And we found out that the players only knew shortly before the game. That didn't work, did it?

So this time, the players knew much earlier, although the press didn't know. So it's all this, there's a fascinating little cultural game of tug-a-war going on there here, because Ancelotti from the Italian school where you don't really want to do

anything more than you have to do and the Brazilian approach to World Cups it's just so important to them the idea of starting cold no no no no you are allowed to ease off in the third game if you've won your first two that isn't the situation in which Brazil

find themselves which is bad news for Scotland in the sweltering heat of Miami Raphina went off injured have we had any update on him and also do we know if and when Neymar might be available to come back in. Yeah, don't know about Hafia yet.

That looked a little bit worrying. Yes. Although he was sitting on the touchline and he wasn't receiving treatment. But if it's a muscular problem, that is a little bit worrying. And Chalotti has said that Neymar will be available for selection for the Scotland game.

The whole thing with Neymour is a massive leap of faith. And it's more than a month. that he's played. And frankly, gentlemen, his form before his latest injury wasn't particularly good, it wasn't. And Ancelotti has, and this is part of him,

it's one of the reasons he's so successful as a coach. He does have a reverence for talent. And I think he is hoping that in the business end of the tournament, as it wears on, as Namar requires a little bit of a rhythm, of a match rhythm, and as people get tired,

as opponents get tired by exposure to the number of games and the number of games in extreme heat that may be come the business end in perhaps little cameo roles, Namar will be able to tip the balance. But it is a leap of faith. Tim, you're in Rio at the moment. What is the feeling in Brazil?

Are the fans confident? Are they a little bit downtrodden? Like, what's the vibe in general? Well, I remember it's been 24 years since they won the World Cup. So the Brazilian public, they're a strange mixture of kind of spoiled by too much success and frustrated by not a lot of success in recent times.

There's a whole generation of young adult Brazilians who've never seen their country be world champions. And remember, every campaign since the last win in 2002 has ended when they've come up against a European team in the knockout stages. One of the other reasons they've got a European at the helm now. Ancelotti himself is starring in an advert that shows a newspaper headline a poll saying

that 72% of Brazilians don't believe they're going to win this year but let me tell you this is an extremely manic depressive sporting culture it can go from we are hopeless

we have absolutely no chance we're humiliating ourselves to we are unstoppable no one can lay a glove on us within 20 seconds and maybe that process has just started it tonight also it seems quite familiar

in England I mean we have we go through those those feelings and those emotions all the time. It has been quite a lot longer since we won anything. I think it was 66, wouldn't it? Yes, yeah, it was, it was.

From your point of view, and I know it is quite hard, as you've alluded to, to second guess what Angeloti is doing and what he will do. What would you say the ceiling for this Brazil side is at this tournament? Well, he's only there because he wants to win. And he knows, I spoke to him,

the day that he was appointed. and he knows that success in this job is winning the World Cup and failure is anything else. Now he's very shrewdly managed to get himself a contract up until the 2030 World Cup before this one started. So he's got himself covered. Oh, he's a smart cookie, Carlo Valenzuela. This is not his first rodeo.

No, but he thinks they can win. He does. It looks a little bit of a long shot at the moment. but the World Cup is like time speeded up. Teams can suddenly come together, or they can suddenly fall apart. And if he can find a balance between the attacking brilliance that they have,

if he can balance that with an improved defence, then no one is going to want to defend against them. So there's a lot of hard work to do, but they have someone of immense credibility and immense experience at, helm with just a raise of the eyebrow, I think. Because it is chaos, Brazilian in the World Cup, and he's just taking some of the edge off that.

His calm takes some of the edge off that. It's fascinating to see. That calm is going to be tested. It's going to be tested. We will see exactly how cold that cold blood is there of Kaloanchol. But it's a fascinating ride. I'm enjoying buckling up. for it. Yeah, it's a really interesting sort of collision of energies, isn't it? Just while I've got you,

Tim, it would be remiss of me not to ask you a question about Lionel Messi. Is he just going to keep being this good forever? Like, I don't get it. I don't know how he does it. No, it is that high point in what I ludicrously call my career. Being in Colombia at the start of 2005, It was a South American under 20 championships. And this little 17-year-old turned up to play for Argentina. And no one really knew he was. And Argentina didn't really know who he was. They knew that Spain wanted him.

So Spain wanted him. And Spain wanted him and we can have him. And we're going to have him. So they brought him back. And he's half as high as anyone else. And you look at him and you're thinking, no, why? No way. And as soon as he got on the ball, we all knew we were in the presence of something very, very special.

But had I been told then that this little man would say, still will be part of my life. 21 and a half years later. Now, enjoy it while it lasts. There will be an end. There will be an end. In the race between the athlete and time, there is only ever one winner. Surely, he's not going to play another World Cup at the age of 43, surely. So let's enjoy every last minute.

Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Tim, absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for your time. Chat again soon. Cheers, Tim. And a massive day here in America. The USA have qualified for the next round after being in Australia. 2-0, second host nation to qualify, never qualify for the next round with one game to go before. So it feels like it's a historic day.

Yeah. And the atmosphere, a commentator on the US coverage described it as the perfect day, perfect atmosphere. Our commentary, this was the thing that really struck me, our commentary team, so Dionne Dublin was there. And he had to cover his ears because it was that loud. That is the kind of atmosphere that the USA fans are. are bringing. And we did, we have some reservation, some doubts about whether that was going to, whether that was going to happen.

And certainly when we arrived here in America, you bit like, oh, no, is it going to be a little bit flat? And it is anything, anything but. And, you know, lots of guys, like Rory Smith was talking, described it as being like an intense European game. Yeah. Like that kind of volume, that kind of noise, that kind of passion. And Seattle, I think famously is one of the loud.

stadiums in the USA. It was incredible. I think when we got here, we talked about how they didn't seem to be much of a buzz and it was the fans that were bringing the the World Cup fever. There was no branding anywhere. And we have to like I say that the fans really have just taken that

and they've gone with it. And someone said, and I can't remember who it was, someone came on the pod and said, the thing is we're competing in a nation where football, soccer is nowhere. near the top of their sporting agendas. They've got so many more sports that they're bothered about. You know, even college American football is probably higher up than soccer.

And they've just really embraced it. You wouldn't know it. You wouldn't know it. Like right now you wouldn't know it. No, you wouldn't know it. And it was, you know, there was a little moment, you know, when we first got here where the Knicks were in the playoffs and, you know, the bars were busy for that. But then when the World Cup started, they've really, really embraced it.

You know, we drove to the bar today. And there was a queue outside of golf club that was going around. the block, for people to go in there. They're all wearing the shirts and stuff. And I think it's relatively new for them in the grand scheme of things. And it's great that they've...

Well, they like it. Oh, absolutely. I mean, fancy dress to the nines. And what's really good is the fact that America, USA, have qualified, which means that I think that vibe, that fever will carry on going. Because you worry that if they did get knocked out,

would it just feel a little bit flat? But the fact that they've got all these new heroes, new people, they've got new, you know, there's these kids going around with names on the back that they probably didn't have a year ago. And so it's so nice to see, and I'm glad that they've qualified just for them, but also

for the World Cup in general. Absolutely, absolutely. So just before we go, as we're recording the pod, we're also watching, with half an eye, the Turkey Paraguay game. It's currently Paraguay 1, Turkey nil. And at the end of the first half,

there's a bit of a kind of clash between the teams. There's maybe a foul, and people are sort of, growing up to one another. And then there's a pause, and we're not entirely sure what's happening, and they come, and then VAR are checking something. It's not entirely obvious what it is.

And then the ref gives Miguel Almaron a red card, because on VAR, they've seen that he has covered his mouth as he's been talking to one of the Turkey... Mert Molder. Mulder. Yeah. And, now listen, we did actually know that this was a rule, that, the players weren't allowed to do it anymore. To actually see it in action and someone get a straight red for it is crazy.

Like really, because it's, look, I'm not even, look, we don't know what he said, to be fair. But he's not been sent off for what he said anyway. He's been sent off for the action of covering his mouth. But it feels like it's sort of a reflex. Like these players are so used to doing that. And he also, if you watch it, he kind of realizes and takes his hand down. surely the ref just says look the new rule is a yellow don't do that again a straight red it feels hard doesn't it but i think it's been a common theme throughout this podcast for this tournament is that

refs are taking a hard line i mean reds are being dished out they're not taking any nonsense like peer luigi cleaner is in charge of these refs he's almost like he's like head of the swat team or like the navy seals or the marines and he's just gone we're not taking any passengers The sending off, Alma and Receivers, the first of its kind, after the International Football Association Board, the body which sets the rules of the game, change its laws in April to include players covering the mountains and instances of confrontation being punishable with a red card, which is obviously very different to it if they're talking tactics over a free kick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not the same thing. But I think this is where it's perceived to be insulting someone else.

Letter of the law, yes, now that is a red card. It's just, I suppose, I'm just surprised because I've never seen it. And it feels really harsh. And for anyone wondering why that might be, the law came in following the incident involving Rail Madrid and Brazil's winger Vincius Juna and Benfica midfielder, Jan Luca Prestiana, during the UE Chamberlian match in February.

So they've obviously brought this in, and this is obviously the first time. I don't even think it's a bad, I think it's a bad rule. But Almaran's gone, oh, I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I was just trying to insult this guy, and I just instinctively put the old hand up.

I mean, it's worth saying that Mertmolder ran off towards the assistant referee. Oh, he's a snitch? To Dobbin Almaron. And now Paraguay down to 10 players. You can listen to the World Cup on BBC Sounds with live coverage, commentaries and podcasts all in one place. Later today, we've got Netherlands, Sweden from six. Germany take on Ivory Coast at 9.

Ecuador, Curisal at 1am, Chenezia, Japan from 5. We are having a day off tomorrow. We are. Don't worry, there will be a podcast. waiting for you with Wayne Rooney and Gail Clishi. Like for like. Which one am I? You're Rooney, aren't you?

I'd like to think that. We've both had hair transplants and fantastic on the ball. We'll be back on the 20 seconds. To get new episodes as soon as they drop, subscribe on BBC Sounds and turn push notifications on in your phone settings, something that I have never done. Have you not? Scares me, don't know what it means.

Get on it. There's this noise that you make. You don't decide to make it. to make it. It just comes out. I don't know what that's good either. But everyone makes it at the same time.

And it makes you feel I don't know how to say it. We know that feeling. The FIFA World Cup 2026. On 5 live in BBC Sounds. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure

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