Football Daily - World Cup: Thomas Tuchel & Jordan Pickford ahead of DR Congo Match

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

England boss Thomas Tuchel and goalkeeper Jordan Pickford have been speaking to John Murray ahead of their Round of 32 tie against DR Congo. They talk about their expectations from a side that have impressed so far at the World Cup. And with penalty shootouts being ever present in this round so far, they discuss how they've prepared for that and whether they'll follow the blueprint set by Gareth Southgate. John is also joined by former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson and they talk about how England will benefit from playing in an air conditioned stadium, but how this will not continue if they beat DR Congo.You can listen to full match commentary of England v DR Congo on 5 Live with John Murray and Paul Robinson from 5pm.2’00 - Paul Robinson on the benefits of playing in an air conditioned stadium 2’48 - Will Jarell Quansah and Reece James be involved? 3’45 - How DR Congo will play against England 7’14 - Thomas Tuchel interview 7’52 - What Tuchel expects from DR Congo 9’24 - Are England ready for penalties? 10’32 - Paul Robinson on how Tuchel has made England the star 12’10 - Jordan Pickford interview 12’21 - Is it time for everyone to take the load off Bellingham & Kane? 13’06 - How have the defensive changes affected Pickford? 13’36 - How does he prepare for penalties? 15’23 - Will England turn it on against DR Congo? 18’48 - Paul Robinson on preparing for penalties

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Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. At the People World Cup 2026, the Football Daily Podcasts with John Murray. Hello from Georgia in the heart of Atlanta, just a few hours away from England's first knockout match at this World Cup against DR Congo here. Just out of the window in front of me, I can see the greenery of the Centennial Olympic Park from 1996, which for this World Cup is actually a fan park. and we're just a couple of goal kicks away from the futuristic stadium where this match will be played. Kick off 5pm BST.

You can watch on BBC 1 or listen with us on 5 Live. And when I say, us, that is me and former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson, World Cup goalkeeper, 41 caps. How are you feeling about it, Paul? You say a couple of gold kicks, I reckon I could get there in one. Do you think so? Yeah, absolutely. Do you remember that when I hit that screen in 2006?

Yeah, for sure. I'd definitely get there in one. goal kick. But I think England had been lucky in a way. Playing in Dallas in the air-conditioned arena and the two games that we've seen that ensued that, it was

pouring rain. And both days either side of that was glorious sunshine. So I think the conditions have been very, very favourable for England. But going into this game, it's a game that we'd obviously expect them to win. The Croatia performance that we saw and we all got excited again and we spoke about this many

times and we thought, oh, okay, here we go. England are going to win the World Cup and then the two performances that followed that, I'd prefer it to be flicked the other way. I'd like the Croatia performance in the last game, bringing a lot of confidence into the knockout stages, but I would be very disappointed

if England didn't progress through the round of 32 tomorrow. Yeah, and it's a great point you make because this match is inside, air-conditioned. The first person I saw out on the street corner this morning, he said to me, hey, welcome to Hotlander. And it is hot.

It is very hot here during the hours of daylight, but England won't have that. So the first four matches England have played when all of the talk, or so much of the talk in advance of this tournament, was how are they going to cope with the sweltering conditions? That must be a help. Definitely is a help.

I mean, without being the arrogant Englishman and thinking that England are going to progress the whole way, the biggest test that they've got ahead of them is Mexico and Mexico and Brazil in Miami. Here in Atlanta, they won't have a problem. But if they do progress from here, which we all think that they will do and hope that they will do,

Mexico and Mexico, then Brazil in Miami, and then they're back here for a potential semi-final against Argentina. So the conditions that they've had to deal with have been very, very favourable for them. But after today, it's going to be very difficult for them going forward. Right, the team news is,

as regards Reese James and Jarrell Kwanza, they will not be involved. says that they're getting close, they've been on the pitch, but they will not be involved. And he actually said, we have to make sure we have more matches which might see them involved. As for DR Congo, they have a completely clean bill of health. Their coach, Sebastian DeSabra, said that he can pick from all 26 players. And there are some very familiar players in there. Wan Bessaca, Axel 2 Anzebbi, Noah Sadiqi of Sundland, who did so well this season.

Otto Massahuacu from West Ham and Sunderland. Chonselle and Bemba, the captain, who had a spell at Newcastle. And of course, Yuan Wissar, who scored three goals at this World Cup, as many goals as he scored for Newcastle in the whole of last season. So lots of familiar faces. Well, you've just stole my line there, John. I had all of those players lined up and ready to go and tell you the dangers that they've got. But I think they will play in a very similar way to Garner and Panama.

I think they will sit deep. They will hold a low block. And the blueprint to play against England in this tournament has been proven. England find it very difficult to play against the low block and I think that's exactly what they'll do but at some point we're in a knockout game they have to come out and they have to play I think there'll be one team that sets up to win the game

obviously England and DR Congo will set up to stay in the game and I think from an England point of view it's going to be about patience it's going to be frustrating we may not see the best of them again but I think if he plays that 4-1-44-formation I mean Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice individually are undroppable, both of them. But I think you will see

Declan Rice employed in a much higher role. I think Elliot Anderson will sit deep in front of the back four and Declan Rice will play up alongside Saka, Rashford, maybe, and Bellingham that we saw in a free role, I think he will do the same again. So I'm looking forward to an exciting attack in England because they know what they're coming up against. And you think Spence it right back to you,

rather than moving Conzer across and bringing Stone's in? Well, he's got those options and I think that's why he brought obviously Trevor Chalover into the squad. He was obviously concerned about John Stones' fitness and he was worried about his two central defensive partners

and the cover that he had there. There'll always be a question asked about Trent Alexander Arnold and why wasn't he brought into the squad and that will only go away if England are successful. If England are not successful and they lose games there will always be a question of why wasn't he brought into the squad.

But I think when you look at the side and the team that he puts out, he's got a spine through the side. He's got Jordan Pickford. He's got Conzer. He's got Anderson. He's got Rice. He's got Bellingham. He's got cane through the middle.

The meat on the bones, I'm not so sure that he's confident about. You look at the fullbacks that have changed game by game in the last three games. And you look at the wide players that have changed game by game. And it's very difficult to get an understanding between players and some cohesion in the squad and in the side when you're constantly changing personnel. The spine through the side, not worried about it at all. But I'm still not sure with injuries and with lack of form, etc. And the change, not so sure that he knows what he wants to do on either flank.

Well, we're going to hear from Thomas Tuchel. We're going to hear from Jordan Pickford as well, who I also spoke to today. But it is just to flesh it out a little bit. So this is England, ranked fourth in the world, against DR Congo, ranked 41st in the the world. But we know DR Congo, they've not been to the World Cup for 52 years. We know that at this World Cup so far, they've drawn with Portugal, so that was their first point at a World Cup. They've won a match for the first time at a World Cup against Uzbekistan. They've qualified from their group for the first time at a World Cup. So all boxers have been ticked for

DR Congo. So the pressure really, I think you could say, is off. And the other thing as well, with everything that's going on back home in their country in Central Africa, amidst the e-bola outbreak, also war in the east of the country. And there is a feeling that this team, with their performance here, have raised spirits to an extent back in their home country. So that is the background to it. This is what Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, had to say to me about it. It's knockout football, and you could see how tight the matches are until now,

and we face a strong opponent. everything is now condensed into 90, 120 or into the penalty shootout. That's how it is. It's exciting. What do you make of these opponents? Because they've come here to this World Cup and they've drawn with Portugal. They've got their first point. They've got their first win.

They've qualified through. So almost every box is ticked. Does that pile the pressure on you? No. but we expect a very determined and very compact, very physical, very fast team from Congo. It's a bit of a mixture of Panama and Ghana again. So we see a compact block of 10 players defending. We see strong and fast players in counter-attack.

We see a team that doesn't concede chances. We see a team that concedes not a lot of goals. So that's what's coming and they play fully from the role of an underdog. That's what we're facing. That's the setup. But we are well prepared and we're ready to go. We've heard many of the players talking about wanting to free the mind.

Is that where this really comes into play when the pressure's on to be able to play with that freedom? Yeah, but freedom can also mean that you just accept the situation as it is and you don't over-expect. No one beats them with four or five goals. So why would we expect that from us? They made life difficult to any opponent.

They made life difficult to, like you said, to Portugal and Colombia, to excellent teams in their group, and they have difficulties to create anything. So you need to understand the context. You need to understand that this is maybe not the moment to shine and to play spectacular, but it's a moment to find a way to win. This is the target. And this is with his mindset is also a free mind. Are you very ready for penalties should it come to that?

Of course we're ready. What have you done? Anything extra special? No, we trained it. And the FA runs an excellent program on highest level, and we followed the program. And just in terms of right back, who's the, no, I didn't think you. I will not tell you, but we will have a strong right back tomorrow.

Thanks, Thomas, good luck. Thank you. So there we are. That is the England manager, Thomas Tuchel, speaking to, me on the eve of England's match against D.R. Congo, we're here in Atlanta, Paul Robinson, England World Cup goal keep sitting alongside

me. Thomas Tuchel also saying that now is the moment to find ways to win. He said, this team of his he feels England have the capacity to make life difficult. But, you know, when he was talking about the prospects for this World Cup,

Thomas Suckel said, we're going to need nerves of steel and a bit of luck. And that's really where it comes in, isn't it, now? You need a lot of luck to get through the knockout stages. We've spoken to Thomas Tuchel and we've watched England every game since he's been in charge.

And I don't know if you remember. Was it October that we went to Serbia? And we saw them, they put five past the Serbia side that at the time we thought may have been a threat to England. And he came out in the press conference afterwards and his post-match interviews and he went, I told you.

I told you this was coming. I've seen this. coming for a long time. I know this from my team. And I think from that point onwards, he made the team the star. And I think that that's what he's tried to concentrate on in this World Cup. And with Jude Bellingham, the way he's trekked him, as in leaving him out the squad, leaving him out the side, and brought him back in. And we're seeing the best of him. And I think England are a team that thrive in a knockout stage. In a group stage, teams will sit in that low block that we always talk about, the low defensive block and all the terminologies that we

use and make it hard for England. But actually, when you're in a knockout game, you need to win the game. So at some point, your opposition has got to come out and try and beat you. And that plays into England's hands, absolutely for sure, because we've got the players and we've got the quality to play against the team who wants to come and play. You know, if you want to sit in a deep block and you want to make it hard for England and you want to put two banks a five and a four and say, go on then break us down and go as long as you can and get to 90 minutes for a nil-nil draw,

you can't do that in a knockout game. So it's almost like Thomas Tuchel has constructed his side to go to the knockout phase and be that team that progresses through. From the former England goalkeeper to the current England goalkeeper, Jordan Pickford of Everton and England, this is what he had to say to me. It's good. It's an exciting part of it now.

You know, the first group game's always exciting because you just want to get going. and got to get the job done, and now it's the real time, the not out stages. Do you think that, you know, the big guys have really contributed, haven't they, Bellingham and Kane? Is this the point where, you know, it's time for everyone else to contribute as well

and maybe take the load off? No, I think everyone contributing different ways and different manners. And luckily enough, we've got one of the best strikers in the world and one of the best number 10s in the world who contribute with a lot of goals. But you see with them, too, a lot of hard work gets put in without the ball as well. So a lot of contributions

is everybody's a team that's what the manager picks a team for and they take evidence and for me it's being great and you know you want other people to score but if people are feeding the likes of Harry up top then we know he gets a sniff

a goal, it's an opportunity he's going to take. You've had to make the changes in defence and there will be another change for this match. How does that affect you as the goalkeeper behind them? That's fine. I kind of know everyone's straight in front of me. I'm quite, I think, very aware of, like, a good football knowledge.

And, yeah, I think I know whoever gets put in front, the manager has the tactics, and everyone knows the job and everyone knows what to do. So for me, it's just a normal service, really. And tell us as well, it is possible, obviously, the penalties could be involved here. How do you approach that mentally? What sort of things are you doing in the build-up to these matches? when you are thinking about the part of your mind that looks after penalties?

No, for me, it's, is everyone in tournament football, you want to win the game in 90 minutes. But then also you've got to keep it in. If it doesn't come in 90 minutes, you've got to be prepared for a full 120, if not penalties. That's the nature of the knockout stages now. That's the enjoyable part.

And for me, it's just, yeah, fully prepared and do my work during the week. and the boxes are ticked and I'm just ready to go. You always back yourself, don't you, in a penalty shootout? I've got a decent record, so yeah, I've always back myself. I'm powerful, and I feel like I'm always there to step up when called upon. Just a few numbers for you at the finish, because I know you like a number or two. So, 88th cap tomorrow.

30th consecutive start at European Championship World Cup, which is amazing. 16th World Cup appearance, so only Peter Shelton more with one. You know, when we talk about experience, that's right there, isn't it? Yeah, for me, it shows a lot of hard work put in and, you know, keep improving yourself and having the trust, you know, the managers putting trust in the year. And for me, it just shows how the hard work I've put in over the years and the experience I gain and how I've kept improving. It just shows that the improvement side of it.

And, yeah, the numbers are really good on a high level and may that continue. I bring experience, I bring leadership qualities and I'm vocal and when called upon make big saves. But yeah, me all-around games in a very good place at the minute and can't wait to get going. And more generally for the team, how confident are you that England will turn it on in this match now we've reached the knockout stages?

Yeah, well, you know, Congo's qualified. And they're in the knockout stages for a reason and you see what's happened in the last couple of days that Germany getting beat. what happens because people are very good sides are not here for no reason and we've got to be very well prepared for them and you know

if it's not everyone wants to score in the first five ten minutes but if not we've got to be patient play our game and not get too frustrated and just keep cracking on and let them hopefully break them down and get them goals that we know we've got in our locker and that's the standard we set ourselves so there we are Jordan Pickford Paul Robinson

88th cap this will be for him and there is that potential of being involved from this point on in a penalty shootout where his record, as he said, is pretty good. Very good. Very good. And I think it's obviously going to be a topic of conversation seeing the sides that we've seen eliminated from this World Cup. And it's very, very difficult now for a goalkeeper. You do all your homework and we see the old water bottle with the writing down the side and all the preparation that you can do. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not cloak and dagger.

Everybody knows what you're doing. So it's more of a mind game than it's ever been. What you try and do as a goalkeeper, you watch penalty takers in a precious situation. You try and find their safety penalty, if you like. There's no point in watching a penalty take a penalty when their team's 3-0 up. Because I think both you and I could do that.

I mean, you can pick your spot and do what you want. You need to find the footage or the games that they've played in where they've taken penalties in the 91st minute where their team are 1-0 down or where it's nil-nil. And that's where you find their safety penalty, where they go to. And the worst thing now is they know you've done that, and you know that they know that you've done that.

So it's more of a mind-gaghan, ever. Like in 2006, when we got knocked out to Portugal, I knew exactly who was coming up in what order and what their safety penalty was. But likewise, flip that on its head, they knew that I knew that. information. And for me, the penalty that beat me at the end, the Ronaldo penalty, I knew that his safety penalty was high up to my right. And he walking up knew that I knew that that was the case.

And I went with what I'd done, the percentages, my homework, if you like, and I flew high away to my right. And he cleverly put it high away to my left. So that gives you a little bit of an insight into what might be lying ahead. Should it come to a penalty shootout? And actually Thomas Tuchold, about penalty shootouts today in terms of who will be taking them for England. He said, and we know this because this was the case under Gareth Southgate for many years, that the FA does have a program in place to work on penalty shootouts. And he said the players know the process. And he also said, interestingly Paul, we don't ask the players where they want to take a penalty,

which number they want to be. And that's from the FA process. He said, we know the order that we want the players to take the penalties, and it just depends on who finishes the match. Goes all out the window. Everything goes out of the window. As soon as you finish the match, because you don't know how the match is going to play out, you don't know who's going to be on the pitch at the end,

and you can religiously practice penalties like we did in 2006. I mean, Sven had us all the players sat in their centre circle. After every training session, I mean, you'll know it from personal experience. You guys get to come in for the first 15 months. minutes of a session. You don't get to see the rest of the session, but at the end of every single session that we did before 2006, the players would amass in the centre circle. There'd be a goalkeeper at one end and the other end of the pitch, and we'd practice the walk, everything. But there's nothing that can recreate pressure. You can practice all you like. You can practice the execution.

You can practice the strike of the ball. You can practice the order you're going to take it in. But there is absolutely nothing that recreates the pressure of all of a sudden, really, that everyone at home's watching. This is what I watched as a kid. You know, I watched these penalties. This is where I am now. And the pressure on the penalty taker is huge. As a goalkeeper, it's kind of a free ride

because you're on a hiding to nothing. But for the penalty taker, it's massive and it's very, very difficult. Well, if England do make long progress in this World Cup, the chances are there will be at least one, maybe more penalty shootouts to... Let's hope not. Let's hope not. Indeed, let's hope not.

Good feeling? for this match? I'd be very disappointed if we didn't progress. If England don't get through this, that is, that's failed. That is World Cup failure

for Thomas Tuchel, isn't that? Absolutely. It's World Cup failure. And then that brings into the question about his new contract and his extended contract with the team. They have to progress.

I think they will progress. And without being the arrogant Englishman thinking that England will go, you know, to the final. It's going to be a very, very difficult route.

We've got Mexico. We've got Brazil. and we've got Argentina should everything pan out as we expect. But as I always say, we can beat anyone on our day. Paul Robinson, thank you very much. You will be sitting alongside me

in this amazing stadium here in Atlanta. It is noon local times and early start for us on match day. Kick off 5pm in the UK, so 5pm BST. And as I say,

live with us on 5 Live. It is also live on BBC. Guy Morbray and Alan Shearrel will be commentating there or you can if you like listen to our five live commentary with the BBC pictures and you can do that via the red button and the eye player but there we are you're already now

for England against Dior Congo at the World Cup There's this feeling you get when it's about to go in the net and everyone goes but I know what it feels feels like. We know that feeling.

The FIFA World Cup, 2026. On 5 Live and BBC Sounds. The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story.

And a lot of people. about it. I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. How did a ballerina build one of the most controversial companies in finance? This week on Good Bad billionaire Luana Lopez Lara, the youngest self-made female billionaire on the planet.

Her company, Kalshi, lets you trade on anything from elections to the weather to war. Supporters say it predicts the future. Critics say you could undermine democracy. So is she a visionary? Or has she turned the whole world into a casino? Good, bad billionaire. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts.